Palm posts $22m Q3 loss

[Titch]

Palm gave us a heads-up (http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/25/palm-sales-lower-than-expected-revenues-to-miss-targets/) back in late February that its upcoming earnings report wouldn't exactly be cause for celebration, and today the news has become official: the outfit recorded a net loss of $22 million during its fiscal Q3, which still looks rosy compared to the $98 million loss it suffered this quarter a year ago. All told, the firm shipped 960,000 smartphones in the period, which represents a 23 percent uptick from Q2 2010 and a nearly 300 percent increase compared to this quarter in 2009. Unfortunately, sell-through wasn't exactly stellar, with just 408,000 units changing hands -- that's a 29 percent decline from last quarter and a 15 percent drop year-over-year. We get the impression that it's waiting for carriers to get down to replenishment levels, but it's hard to say when that'll happen. Jon Rubinstein, Palm's chairman and CEO, was obviously not thrilled about the news, but he's mirroring statements made to employees (http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/25/palm-boss-rubenstein-sends-letter-to-employees-talks-turnaround/) just over a fortnight ago with this quote:

"Our recent underperformance has been very disappointing, but the potential for Palm remains strong. The work we're doing to improve sales is having an impact, we're making great progress on future products, and we're looking forward to upcoming launches with new carrier partners. Most importantly, we have built a unique and highly differentiated platform in webOS, which will provide us with a considerable - and growing - advantage as we move forward."
We're listening into the earnings call right now, and so far we've heard a few choice quotes. Jon mentioned that Palm has "aggressive roadmaps on the software front that we're working on," and that there were "no changes to our planned carrier launches." We'll let you know if he introduces the Pixi 2 or anything.

Update: The call's over. PreCentral points out (http://www.precentral.net/palm-ceo-pre-would-have-done-better-droid-if-it-launched-first-4th-quarter-be-grim) a choice quote from Rubinstein:
We had an arrangement with Sprint that when we launched with Sprint that they would invest in marketing and carry the product and for that they would get an exclusive for a period of time. That really determined when we could do our launch at Verizon. I agree with your premise that if we could have launched at Verizon earlier, prior to Droid, that we would have gotten the attention that the Droid got and since I believe that we have a better product, I think we would have even done better.
In other words, Palm -- regardless of Verizon's positioning -- feels like the Pre Plus (http://www.engadget.com/tag/PrePlus/) could've been a legitimate contender as a halo phone for the carrier had it been able to launch sooner, though that opportunity has obviously long since passed. We're not so sure we agree that the Droid (http://www.engadget.com/tag/Droid/) and the Pre Plus play in quite the same space, but if nothing else, we like the chutzpah -- now it's time to deliver some new hardware.


http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/18/palm-posts-22m-q3-loss-making-great-progress-on-future-produc/

[The Professor]

Palm is going the way of the dodo. Shame really I really want a pre :(

[Jordy]

There isn't a more blatant rip of the iPhone than this. While it was quite original looking, Web OS is terrible and I have no respect for it.

[GommeInc]

There isn't a more blatant rip of the iPhone than this. While it was quite original looking, Web OS is terrible and I have no respect for it.
How is it a rip of the iPhone? Or do you mean rip off? I can't tell :P Both phones seem very different so I'm assuming the later with this answer - the contract of £35 is quite alot seeing as it appears to be a phone with, as you said, the Web OS rather than an OS which can handle a huge range of Apps. The HTC HD2 is on a £35 month contract too, and you get alot more and it uses Windows Mobile 6.5, which is a decent enough phone OS. Its a shame really, seeing as the Palm Pre once held the short title of "iPhone killer" during the run up of its release.

[HotelUser]

They can thank Apple and Google for this.

[Jordy]

How is it a rip of the iPhone? Or do you mean rip off? I can't tell :P Both phones seem very different so I'm assuming the later with this answer - the contract of £35 is quite alot seeing as it appears to be a phone with, as you said, the Web OS rather than an OS which can handle a huge range of Apps. The HTC HD2 is on a £35 month contract too, and you get alot more and it uses Windows Mobile 6.5, which is a decent enough phone OS. Its a shame really, seeing as the Palm Pre once held the short title of "iPhone killer" during the run up of its release.Rip of the iPhone.

Just looking at the interface says it all
http://girliemac.com/blog/wp-content/images/Palm_webOS_Launcher.pnghttp://www.techmixer.com/pic/2007/08/ifuntastic-original-home.jpg

How unoriginal is that? It pretty much has exactly the same applications too, it tried to sync with iTunes and miserably failed and the WebOS App Store is a rip of the App Store too. It also features the classic iPhone "one button" on the front (Unless you pull out the keyboard of course, which I accept is, original).

It does nothing better than anything else and brought nothing new to the Smartphone arena. Far too similar to the iPhone for my liking.

[HotelUser]

There are certainly similarities. Having said that I think it's generally a good thing when companies in the quaternary industry take eachothers stuff, because it gives us as the consumer more features and more power because one company doesn't hold all the marbles, or just the marbles we like most.

Anyways I'm not defending the Palm Pre and couldn't care less bout it, I haven't and don't wish to use it.


Rip of the iPhone.

Just looking at the interface says it all
http://girliemac.com/blog/wp-content/images/Palm_webOS_Launcher.pnghttp://www.techmixer.com/pic/2007/08/ifuntastic-original-home.jpg

How unoriginal is that? It pretty much has exactly the same applications too, it tried to sync with iTunes and miserably failed and the WebOS App Store is a rip of the App Store too. It also features the classic iPhone "one button" on the front (Unless you pull out the keyboard of course, which I accept is, original).

It does nothing better than anything else and brought nothing new to the Smartphone arena. Far too similar to the iPhone for my liking.

[GommeInc]

Rip of the iPhone.

Just looking at the interface says it all
http://girliemac.com/blog/wp-content/images/Palm_webOS_Launcher.pnghttp://www.techmixer.com/pic/2007/08/ifuntastic-original-home.jpg
They are similar, but then again, all smartphones have a similar style and Palm Pre just went with what works. The Palm Pre one looks nicer in my opinion (not defending it, just saying). Having the calendar on the lower bar is a wise idea, better than having it as a seperate app at least. But I do agree, they've not really made anything amazing, other smartphones tend to have a few differences - the Windows Mobile, Android and Xperia X10 interfaces all come to mind, and they all use a very good interface (I say Xperia X10 differently to Android, as the home screen uses something Sony Ericsson called the "UX", the Android OS isn't that noticable).

[Casanova]

Their palm operation system is actually quite good comparing to... say most n series nokia's. You're bound to get loads of issues.

Their losses are probably due to their blatant arrogance; they thought the palm pre would be a giant hit in the UK and europe like it was for the US. It hasn't been well recieved and their advertising failed blatantly. They spent over a mil and they got no return. I'm sure their pixie will be a great hit transatlantic but unless they buck up it's not going to even be a fart in a hurricane for the UK. Ill advised shoppers still flock to the iphone... even though their next edition is rumoured for june!

[The Professor]

Rip of the iPhone.

Just looking at the interface says it all
http://girliemac.com/blog/wp-content/images/Palm_webOS_Launcher.pnghttp://www.techmixer.com/pic/2007/08/ifuntastic-original-home.jpg


How unoriginal is that? It pretty much has exactly the same applications too, it tried to sync with iTunes and miserably failed and the WebOS App Store is a rip of the App Store too. It also features the classic iPhone "one button" on the front (Unless you pull out the keyboard of course, which I accept is, original).

It does nothing better than anything else and brought nothing new to the Smartphone arena. Far too similar to the iPhone for my liking.


There's only so much you can do with a grid of icons, the pre has rounded edges and icons that aren't all the same shape and the notifications bar and the cards view and so many other things that differentiate it from the iphone OS, showing those two images and making that sweeping statement is completely unfair on palm.

It also brought its synergy system which was the first effective system of bringing together contacts and feeds from social networks as well as the local phone. Since then sony erricson (sp), motorola and HTC have implemented it on their android phones but that was almost a year after palm first did it.

Web OS is also (afaik) written using HTML which in theory should make it extremely easy to write apps for. idk what they're playing at with their app store though, it's a real fail.

[marriott0.01]

There's only so much you can do with a grid of icons, the pre has rounded edges and icons that aren't all the same shape and the notifications bar and the cards view and so many other things that differentiate it from the iphone OS, showing those two images and making that sweeping statement is completely unfair on palm.

It also brought its synergy system which was the first effective system of bringing together contacts and feeds from social networks as well as the local phone. Since then sony erricson (sp), motorola and HTC have implemented it on their android phones but that was almost a year after palm first did it.

Web OS is also (afaik) written using HTML which in theory should make it extremely easy to write apps for. idk what they're playing at with their app store though, it's a real fail.

The Ares SDK is incredibly simple to use.

And just because it is in a grid doesn't mean it's a rip. Symbian had a Grid before the iPhone was even around, so did Apple still the grid from Symbian? It's just an easy way to display things which is universally used..

[HotelUser]

Well, if Apple did steal the grid they de-uglified it immensely :P


The Ares SDK is incredibly simple to use.

And just because it is in a grid doesn't mean it's a rip. Symbian had a Grid before the iPhone was even around, so did Apple still the grid from Symbian? It's just an easy way to display things which is universally used..

[marriott0.01]

Well, if Apple did steal the grid they de-uglified it immensely :P

Nothing wrong with the Symbian Grid? The N97's Menu system looks fine to me?

[Jordy]

I'm yet to see the iPhone grid on anything before the iPhone. By that I mean, priority applications at the bottom followed by applications in pages placed above. That is quite a unique idea and it seems to of been completely ripped from the iPhone. Grids may have been used by other Mobile OSs but not quite how WebOS rips the iPhone. It changes a few of the graphics but the actual design is the same. Android, Windows Mobile and Symbian all have quite different GUIs.

[marriott0.01]

Ah I get you now. Nothing really rips off iPhone OS, I think all the companies who are developing their OS's for Computers/Phones will also have similarities, just because they're similar doesn't mean they ripped off them. And Web OS does some things iPhone OS doesn't and visa versa. Apple were very good with their design, and I don't know if they stole anything from Apple considering Palm was taken over by ex-Apple Employees. I doubt they did steal it though, because both OS's are very good, and Apple did make a unique design I really haven't seen anywhere else...

[HotelUser]

Ah I get you now. Nothing really rips off iPhone OS, I think all the companies who are developing their OS's for Computers/Phones will also have similarities, just because they're similar doesn't mean they ripped off them. And Web OS does some things iPhone OS doesn't and visa versa. Apple were very good with their design, and I don't know if they stole anything from Apple considering Palm was taken over by ex-Apple Employees. I doubt they did steal it though, because both OS's are very good, and Apple did make a unique design I really haven't seen anywhere else...

In Windows Mobile 6.5 the application page flicked vertically, I think that's the closest I've see.


Nothing wrong with the Symbian Grid? The N97's Menu system looks fine to me?

It's not eye shattering ugly, I just think the iPhone's grid looks better.

[marriott0.01]

In Windows Mobile 6.5 the application page flicked vertically, I think that's the closest I've see.



It's not eye shattering ugly, I just think the iPhone's grid looks better.

Well Windows Mobile 6.5 fails anyway. And I think the iPhone is a bit boring now, no offence to it, it was very good at the start but Apple needs a few UI changes as it's getting slightly too boring, even the device is getting too same old.

[Jordy]

Windows Mobile 6.5 is rather different, it's a honeycomb grid where you just scroll down. There's no pages, there's no priority applications, it's just scrolling and icon pictures. It's very efficient at what it does and Windows Mobile 6.5 is far from a fail, far more capable than any other Mobile OS.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1064/honeycomb.png

[HotelUser]

I used Winmo 6.5 for many months. I thought it was the best thing ever when I was using it; especially with titanium. But then Tom introduced me to Android and that--sort of won my heart:P


Windows Mobile 6.5 is rather different, it's a honeycomb grid where you just scroll down. There's no pages, there's no priority applications, it's just scrolling and icon pictures. It's very efficient at what it does and Windows Mobile 6.5 is far from a fail, far more capable than any other Mobile OS.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1064/honeycomb.png

[marriott0.01]

I used Winmo 6.5 for many months. I thought it was the best thing ever when I was using it; especially with titanium. But then Tom introduced me to Android and that--sort of won my heart:P

*looks in disgust* David. Windows Mobile Fails. Windows Phone 7 Series however doesn't. Microsoft's lucky number actually is 7. Apart from IE ;)

[GommeInc]

Haven't grids always existed? They're not new to smartphones. My k800i uses a grid system for all of the main settings and applications, same with all Nokias and so forth. The grid argument is a bit irrelevant here :P The only amazing thing is the 3 or 4 main apps, which isn't really a God send.

[marriott0.01]

Haven't grids always existed? They're not new to smartphones. My k800i uses a grid system for all of the main settings and applications, same with all Nokias and so forth. The grid argument is a bit irrelevant here :P The only amazing thing is the 3 or 4 main apps, which isn't really a God send.

lols, I just thought that's what he meant by Palm ripping off Apple. And the vital apps bar is better on the Palm Pre than it is on the iPhone anyway, so not exactly ripping and as you said not a 'God send'

[HotelUser]

*looks in disgust* David. Windows Mobile Fails. Windows Phone 7 Series however doesn't. Microsoft's lucky number actually is 7. Apart from IE ;)

It's not good, I'm saying when you know nothing else it is good :)