Bring out the clowns! - EU wastes millions on circus skills and hip hop

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1259114/EU-wasting-millions-hip-hop-circus-skills.html


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/03/19/article-0-0209E6DB0000044D-910_233x496.jpg



Millions of pounds are being 'wasted' by the EU on promoting activities such as hip hop dance and circus skills, it emerged last night. The European Commission has announced the latest round of projects receiving grants under its £366million culture scheme. Among the beneficiaries is a European Laboratory for Hip Hop Dance which will net £900,000 and a 'wind art festival' for which £180,000 has been earmarked to promote organ music.

Other bizarre schemes include 'The project of generosity' which will get £180,000 to 'spread the movement of reaching out and sharing' and the TRANS-Mission project which will receive £143,000 for the circus sector. Where a project is run in the UK, we match the EU funding, increasing the burden on the British taxpayer. The EU Culture Programme received a pot of £366million to spend across the 27 member states between 2007 and 2014. It was approved by all member states in 2005. Funding is granted throughout this period to applicants following a vetting process. MEPs have criticised the programme, saying the EU should instead be investing in schemes to aid economic recovery.

Nigel Farage, a UK Independence Party MEP, described the funding as a 'disgrace'. 'In the depths of the recession we pay the EU £45million a day. This will raise to £50million a day next year because of huge budgets for schemes like the culture programme. And next year there is a danger that this could rise to £60million. 'There are very serious questions to be asked about how our money is being spent and wasted.'

Conservative Emma McClarkin echoed his views. 'If national governments want to use taxpayers' money on cultural projects that is their choice, but British taxpayers should not have to fork out in a vain attempt to create a common European identity,' she said. Mats Persson, of UK-based think tank Open Europe, said: 'While spending public money on cultural initiatives isn’t wrong in itself, you must really question whether millions of taxpayers’ cash should be spent on these types of rather odd projects - not least given that most people are still struggling through the downturn. 'The EU’s spending machine is completely out of sync with economic reality. 'In addition, the question is why EU bureaucrats should be involved in cultural initiatives in the first place. Surely this is better handled nationally or locally?'£45 million x 365 days (1 year) = £16 billion, four hundred and twenty-five million. If you took this away from each person in the United Kingdom (despite the fact children, the unemployed and OAPs dont really pay tax anyway) - tax wise you would take away a sum of what I see as around £246+ from your tax, and thats per year. This also doesnt include the immense cost of the EU to business and so forth who have to enforce their legislation. The sum is estimated to be well over £100 billion a year to the United Kingdom.

Thoughts - is this a well worth-it cause or a total waste of taxpayer money?

[hah]

i think thats money well spent

[Hecktix]

I think this is pretty good to be honest, there are so many places in which the arts are so underfunded it's unbelievable, our local theatre almost had to shut down following it's funding being cut. It is up to the Governments to fund these sort of things and I think it is excellent that the EU is doing so, as these sort of things are incredibly beneficial to society, get people out the house and having a good time. I have no issue whatsoever that part of my tax is going towards this, keep funding the arts is what I say, it's a huge part of our culture that we should maintain.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I think this is pretty good to be honest, there are so many places in which the arts are so underfunded it's unbelievable, our local theatre almost had to shut down following it's funding being cut. It is up to the Governments to fund these sort of things and I think it is excellent that the EU is doing so, as these sort of things are incredibly beneficial to society, get people out the house and having a good time. I have no issue whatsoever that part of my tax is going towards this, keep funding the arts is what I say, it's a huge part of our culture that we should maintain.

Clowns and hip-hop are not a part of our culture, and neither is the idea that Europe shares the same history and culture. If you want to go at an art school or a theatre to get out of the house then pay for it rather than expect the rest of the country to pay for things such as this. Without schemes such as this, you would have more cash in your own bank to spend and thus could choose to spend it on things like this if you deem them worth it.

Why are my parents and many other taxpayers paying for this?

If you like this sort of stuff; pay for it yourself and dont expect everyone else to pick up the tab.

[xxMATTGxx]

I think this is pretty good to be honest, there are so many places in which the arts are so underfunded it's unbelievable, our local theatre almost had to shut down following it's funding being cut. It is up to the Governments to fund these sort of things and I think it is excellent that the EU is doing so, as these sort of things are incredibly beneficial to society, get people out the house and having a good time. I have no issue whatsoever that part of my tax is going towards this, keep funding the arts is what I say, it's a huge part of our culture that we should maintain.

100% agreed with you. We can't just live in a depressed world for the rest of our lives.

[-:Undertaker:-]

100% agreed with you. We can't just live in a depressed world for the rest of our lives.

You can have fun still; just you pay for it if you want it and people can pay for what they want. Whats wrong with that concept? - Our debt is soaring and our credit rating is about to drop which would be very serious for this country, we are heading for a catatrophe similar to the one Greece is experiencing and meanwhile we have more and more people becoming unemployed or employed in non-jobs by the state which contribute nothing to the economy. Families are loosing their houses because they cannot find jobs because business is leaving the UK and moving elsewhere thanks to taxes rising and rising, meanwhile bills and taxes for normal people are also rising. Why on earth are we paying for some of the things listed in the article when we are in such a situation?

I mean i'd understand if we rolling around in pound sterling, but we are not.

[Hecktix]

Clowns and hip-hop are not a part of our culture, and neither is the idea that Europe shares the same history and culture. If you want to go at an art school or a theatre to get out of the house then pay for it rather than expect the rest of the country to pay for things such as this. Without schemes such as this, you would have more cash in your own bank to spend and thus could choose to spend it on things like this if you deem them worth it.

Why are my parents and many other taxpayers paying for this?

If you like this sort of stuff; pay for it yourself and dont expect everyone else to pick up the tab.

Most of these sort of things do require payment as well as government funding? Government funding is often used to set them up however it's income that is used to maintain them, along with government funding, so your argument there is a little bit flawed.

Everybody pays tax, and this tax should be spent on the people, myself, MattGarner and probably thousands of others agree with this, and we are happy for our tax to be spent on schemes like this.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Most of these sort of things do require payment as well as government funding? Government funding is often used to set them up however it's income that is used to maintain them, along with government funding, so your argument there is a little bit flawed.

Everybody pays tax, and this tax should be spent on the people, myself, MattGarner and probably thousands of others agree with this, and we are happy for our tax to be spent on schemes like this.

These things would be able to run without government funding if theres enough demand and if taxes were lower. That would mean that people who wanted to pay for these sort of things would be able to do so, and people who didnt wouldnt have to and would spend in elsewhere in the economy which generates growth in all sectors. It would also mean less waste in government as it would avoid the red tape which costs god knows how much every year. What is wrong with the concept of paying for yourself?

Instead of being happy with it, the better solution is this; taxes are lower so you have your own money. Therefore if you and Matt want to contribute to your local circus and so on then you can do so, meanwhile my family and many others can spend our money on something we want and will enjoy. I question if you would still donate to something like your local circus though hmm.. I wonder.

[Catzsy]

Clowns and hip-hop are not a part of our culture, and neither is the idea that Europe shares the same history and culture. If you want to go at an art school or a theatre to get out of the house then pay for it rather than expect the rest of the country to pay for things such as this. Without schemes such as this, you would have more cash in your own bank to spend and thus could choose to spend it on things like this if you deem them worth it.

Why are my parents and many other taxpayers paying for this?

If you like this sort of stuff; pay for it yourself and dont expect everyone else to pick up the tab.

What is getting silly is being bombarded with Daily Mail articles every day and constant electioneering for UKIP.
I wonder what world you live in sometimes. Hip-Hop is very popular and is now part of our culture. The popularity of the circus in England may be traced to that held by Philip Astley in London. The first performance of his circus is said to have been held on January 9, 1768. How can you say Circus's are not part of our culture? The UK has a huge heritage in this area. You would prefer us to live with no links to anybody outside of the UK by the sound of it and take us back to the stone age.

[-:Undertaker:-]

What is getting silly is being bombarded with Daily Mail articles every day and constant electioneering for UKIP.
I wonder what world you live in sometimes. Hip-Hop is very popular and is now part of our culture. The popularity of the circus in England may be traced to that held by Philip Astley in London. The first performance of his circus is said to have been held on January 9, 1768. How can you say Circus's are not part of our culture? The UK has a huge heritage in this area. You would prefer us to live with no links to anybody outside of the UK by the sound of it and take us back to the stone age.

UKIP have commented on the article, if Labour wanted to comment then they could. Do you not like seeing how wasteful the EU and this government is with our money? - the truth hurts. If you want to post the great work Labour is doing then please do so although i'd say you'd be pretty hard pressed to find any. As for hip hop and the circus, if you like it then nobody is preventing you from going to a hip hop studio or your local circus - the question is, why should I and millions of others who have no interest pay for it?. You say no links, no its very simple Rosie and its something most other countries do so dont label me as 'stone age' - I want to be friends with Europe but not taxed by and ruled by the European Union, which most of the European people despise anyway.

[AlexOC]

As a soon to be tax payer and local uk resident, i have no problem that my future earnings will go towards funding such things.

[Catzsy]

UKIP have commented on the article, if Labour wanted to comment then they could. Do you not like seeing how wasteful the EU and this government is with our money? - the truth hurts. If you want to post the great work Labour is doing then please do so although i'd say you'd be pretty hard pressed to find any. As for hip hop and the circus, if you like it then nobody is preventing you from going to a hip hop studio or your local circus - the question is, why should I and millions of others who have no interest pay for it?. You say no links, no its very simple Rosie and its something most other countries do so dont label me as 'stone age' - I want to be friends with Europe but not taxed by and ruled by the European Union, which most of the European people despise anyway.

Probably because it's just your opinion which you are entitled to but there is no evidence anyway that there is a
huge protest against it. It is no different to lots of things you bring up. If people are that fed up they take to the streets to protest or support like the 1500 bikers showing their support in Wooton Bassett in support of the troops. Like the strikes in the winter of discontent and the huge anti protests in respect of the Poll Tax, Fox HuntingBan and Iraaq. Whether I agree with some of these protests or not they took to the streets in large numbers. Now that's an issue.

[Jordy]

I am against this tbh. If people want to go to Circus's (And Rosie rightly pointed out they are part of our culture) then they can pay to see them. It's all about having a small state, if ideas such as this were scrapped, taxes could be lowered and then individuals would have the money to spend it how they like (On drama schools or circus's if they wish). The government (or EU) shouldn't decide how to spend our money on the likes of this.

Couldn't they just save money and get the clowns out the EU Commission to perform in circus's?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Probably because it's just your opinion which you are entitled to but there is no evidence anyway that there is a huge protest against it. It is no different to lots of things you bring up. If people are that fed up they take to the streets to protest or support like the 1500 bikers showing their support in Wooton Bassett in support of the troops. Like the strikes in the winter of discontent and the huge anti protests in respect of the Poll Tax, Fox HuntingBan and Iraaq. Whether I agree with some of these protests or not they took to the streets in large numbers. Now that's an issue.

You go and ask any taxpayer on the street, just go and ask them if you dont believe me and see if they think this is a good idea. Why do you think the European Union has such a bad reputation Rosie? - apart from being dishonest, left-wing and unelected (all three usually come together) they have a reputation for wasting money hence why they havent been had their own audits signed off for over a decade. You may like higher taxes and wasteful spending, but personally I have never met or spoke to anyone off these forums/in real life who holds such a view.

Ever heard of the terms silent majority or middle england? - I am them.


I am against this tbh. If people want to go to Circus's (And Rosie rightly pointed out they are part of our culture) then they can pay to see them. It's all about having a small state, if ideas such as this were scrapped, taxes could be lowered and then individuals would have the money to spend it how they like (On drama schools or circus's if they wish). The government (or EU) shouldn't decide how to spend our money on the likes of this.

Couldn't they just save money and get the clowns out the EU Commission to perform in circus's?

Thank you Jordy, common sense.

[alexxxxx]

Ever heard of the terms silent majority or middle england? - I am them.

you must be a troll

[-:Undertaker:-]

you must be a troll

Nothing to say on EU waste alex?

Then again you have said in the past you believe most of the British people actually want a federal Europe so i'm not suprised.

[Invent]

Well I'm happy for a part of my wage to go towards this so it's cool with me. Why do you try and speak for the nation Undertaker when there are thousands of people like me who are happy for some of our tax money to be spent on things such as this - why don't we get an opinion on what our tax money should be spent on?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well I'm happy for a part of my wage to go towards this so it's cool with me. Why do you try and speak for the nation Undertaker when there are thousands of people like me who are happy for some of our tax money to be spent on things such as this.

Thousands may support it, I can gurantee that millions will oppose it.

All you Labour supporters on here are pretty happy for it, mainly because its the EU doing it which you all mostly support and the fact that i'm the one posting it so thus you will oppose it naturally. Although why dont you understand the fact that if people want to pay money towards a circus and so on they should do it with their own money rather than that of everybody else? - is that really a hard concept. I just wonder whether you and others here are as generous in real life as you are on here with your preaching.

I very much doubt it.

[Invent]

Thousands may support it, I can gurantee that millions will oppose it.

All you Labour supporters on here are pretty happy for it, mainly because its the EU doing it which you all mostly support and the fact that i'm the one posting it so thus you will oppose it naturally. Although why dont you understand the fact that if people want to pay money towards a circus and so on they should do it with their own money rather than that of everybody else? - is that really a hard concept. I just wonder whether you and others here are as generous in real life as you are on here with your preaching.

I very much doubt it.

Why can't you understand that perhaps the majority of us may actually want our money to fund things such as this? What makes you think the entire british public is 100% against it like yourself? I also don't really care that you posted this thread as I don't actually know who the heck you are so it's not like I dislike you.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Why can't you understand that perhaps the majority of us may actually want our money to fund things such as this? What makes you think the entire british public is 100% against it like yourself?

Then why not let you all pay for it and let me and the 'minority' keep ours - that way you can get to watch your circus acts/clowns and we can spend our money on something a little more useful. You're local circus must be minted with the likes of you around;- i'm sure you donate on the side as well yeah because its such a great cause? - oh wait, that wouldnt work would it because its infact the majority who dont want to waste money on things like this and without our money these useless schemes would not run/close because in reality there is no real demand for them.

[Invent]

Then why not let you all pay for it and let me and the 'minority' keep ours - that way you can get to watch your circus acts/clowns and we can spend our money on something a little more useful. You're local circus must be minted with the likes of you around;- i'm sure you donate on the side as well yeah because its such a great cause?

If you were the minority why should the majority have no opinion on the matter and have to make their own individual effort to donate to the cause(s)? That's ridiculous. But anyway, it doesn't really matter as the money is (being) spent and I at least support it so I'm happy :).

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you were the minority why should the majority have no opinion on the matter and have to make their own individual effort to donate to the cause(s)? That's ridiculous. But anyway, it doesn't really matter as the money is (being) spent and I at least support it so I'm happy :).

Because the fact is that the majority do not want their money spent on a circus and its clowns.

[alexxxxx]

Nothing to say on EU waste alex?

Then again you have said in the past you believe most of the British people actually want a federal Europe so i'm not suprised.

i don't consider these grants waste.

plus im saying you must be a troll calling yourself part of a a 'silent majority,' what a load of rubbish. you are in no way silent. nor are people with similar beliefs to yourself.

[-:Undertaker:-]

i don't consider these grants waste.

plus im saying you must be a troll calling yourself part of a a 'silent majority,' what a load of rubbish. you are in no way silent. nor are people with similar beliefs to yourself.

Oh dont you, are you also an avid circus fan? - nobody I know or have ever met is an avid circus fan so would you like to tell me why they should be forced to pay by an unelected body to fund a circus despite the fact that they have no/little interest in the circus?

I am the silent majority, the silent majority rarely ever protests (me the same) and so forth. The left and the extreme right is the only type which makes the nosie, you have the UAF on the streets and the EDL on the streets - middle england rarely gets involved, infact maybe that is why middle england rarely bothers to vote anymore.

[alexxxxx]

Oh dont you, are you also an avid circus fan? - nobody I know or have ever met is an avid circus fan so would you like to tell me why they should be forced to pay by an unelected body to fund a circus despite the fact that they have no/little interest in the circus?

I am the silent majority, the silent majority rarely ever protests (me the same) and so forth. The left and the extreme right is the only type which makes the nosie, you have the UAF on the streets and the EDL on the streets - middle england rarely gets involved, infact maybe that is why middle england rarely bothers to vote anymore.

i like hip hop dance yeah. silent majority!? you lot spam the internet, newspapers and radio with half truths, scaremongering, social conservatism and thelike. the next time i hear 'it's pc gone mad' i'm going to scream.

[-:Undertaker:-]

i like hip hop dance yeah. silent majority!? you lot spam the internet, newspapers and radio with half truths, scaremongering, social conservatism and thelike. the next time i hear 'it's pc gone mad' i'm going to scream.

If you like hip hop dance then why should people pay for you, why not pay for yourself?

As for the right, yes we are fed up and if you havent noticed England is right wing and is also fed up. There is no scaremongering, there is no half truths (the full truth isnt even out there) and PC has gone mad. In a world where children are banned from running on the playground and old women are prevented from planting flowers in their local village because of health and safety do you not clearly see how PC has gone mad?

[alexxxxx]

If you like hip hop dance then why should people pay for you, why not pay for yourself?

I have. the fact is that you will never appreciate anything that cannot be measured in profit. which is very sad. you must live a very shallow and sad life.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I have. the fact is that you will never appreciate anything that cannot be measured in profit. which is very sad. you must live a very shallow and sad life.

No its realistic. Something which makes a profit is something which is desired and therefore something which works. If you removed the high taxes more things would be able to survive on their own because people would have more money and thus would be able to make their own individual choice. If you want to attend hip hop or riding bikes through hoops of fire then thats fine by me just aslong as you dont expect me to pick up the bill when I could be spending my own money on myself on something I find useful/interesting to me.

Thats freedom.

[alexxxxx]

Thats freedom.
true freedom is free movement of goods, people and equal rights. something you don't quite believe in.

[-:Undertaker:-]

true freedom is free movement of goods, people and equal rights. something you don't quite believe in.

I do believe in all of them;

- The movement of goods provided it does not harm my country and my people.
- The movement of people provided it does not harm my country and my people.
- Equal rights, not rights in favour of somebody because of the colour of their skin/sexuality/gender.

That is freedom, do not preach to me about freedom. As a europhile you are one of the last people on earth who could preach about democracy and freedom to me. Freedom is to elect and make your own laws, not have them dictated to you by a foreign unelected organisation - something the people of Eastern Europe learned a very long time ago. You make it out as though freedom will only appear with the creation of a federal superstate - wrong. We had freedom until the European Union was created and decided to bypass not only national parliaments but also its own puppet parliament by using directives more and more.

[alexxxxx]

I do believe in all of them;

- The movement of goods provided it does not harm my country and my people.
- The movement of people provided it does not harm my country and my people.
- Equal rights, not rights in favour of somebody because of the colour of their skin/sexuality/gender.

so not really then.

nor do you believe in individualism or really true capitalism.

[-:Undertaker:-]

so not really then.

nor do you believe in individualism or really true capitalism.

That is true capitalism, it is you who has called for more regulations on the markets and continue to support more EU control over business. If something does not work then you do away with it - its that simple.

[alexxxxx]

That is true capitalism, it is you who has called for more regulations on the markets and continue to support more EU control over business. If something does not work then you do away with it - its that simple.

i don't support full, 100% capitalism - as it doesn't work for anyone.

no, what you like is social conservatism - the conservation of your society and an extension of your ideals over everyone else. you've already said you don't like multiculturalism. surely as individuals, you shouldn't care nor should you if you are a true libertarian. who are YOUR people? sounds a bit tribal if you ask me, not really very individual.

[-:Undertaker:-]

i don't support full, 100% capitalism - as it doesn't work for anyone.

no, what you like is social conservatism - the conservation of your society and an extension of your ideals over everyone else. you've already said you don't like multiculturalism. surely as individuals, you shouldn't care nor should you if you are a true libertarian. who are YOUR people? sounds a bit tribal if you ask me, not really very individual.

The ideal of conservatism is inseperable from liberty and freedom, Libertarian is a branch of Conservatism in which I believe in. Its basically Thatcherism. If I truly believed in a Conservative 'dictatorship' over everybody else (which is near to impossible because true conservatism is inseperate, again, from liberty and democracy) then I would not support the idea of referendums and more power and democracy to lower levels which would be taken away from central government. My people? - they can be black, brown, white, green, yellow - I dont care. My people are the British people, the individuals who believe in democracy and freedom. I have never said once that I do not like multi-culturalism so do not say that I have. I have said I do not agree with the way this government has run it (the floodgates open). Multi-culturalism is not colonalism where their ideals are placed on this country, it is where they accept the British way of life and path of democracy.

The concept of individual does not mean you do not look out for anybody else, it merely means more freedom and the persons choice. True liberty and conservativism is unreachable however the nearest we can get has been proven to work (the 1980s). Thatcherism (the concept of free market) allows people to flourish to their abilities, not who they are. Marxism on the other hand and its many branches such as socialism aim to stop this in the name of equality.

As Jamie Oliver puts it quite simply, I only care about Great Britain in relation to the whole picture and I want the best for my country always; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3qcgAQGbEI

[Catzsy]

I thought this thread was about the EU spending money on 'Culture'. If you had presented this as a waste of money
without what I consider to be bigoted views on what the UK Culture is you may have had some sort of support. The thread again has turned into a verbal assault containing your political views that can be found in almost every thread in Current Affairs and quite honestly I find ,personally, seeing the same comments over and over again quite tiresome.

[Adamm]

If people want clowns they should pay for clowns. Visit Downing Street - you're bound to find a few.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I thought this thread was about the EU spending money on 'Culture'. If you had presented this as a waste of money
without what I consider to be bigoted views on what the UK Culture is you may have had some sort of support. The thread again has turned into a verbal assault containing your political views that can be found in almost every thread in Current Affairs and quite honestly I find ,personally, seeing the same comments over and over again quite tiresome.

It is about that, and its conformed to forum rules with the conversation moving ever so slightly to other issues of which me and alex have been debating about. Everybody posts their opinion in any thread otherwise we wouldnt have a forum in the first place and secondly we wouldnt be human. You say I shouldn't mention what UK culture is yet say we should talk about the subject at hand which is British culture. See the flaw there?


If people want clowns they should pay for clowns. Visit Downing Street - you're bound to find a few.

Haha too true. :)
+rep some common sense.

[jrh2002]

Another waste of money....... Lets see how all these people who if worked would not mind their taxes going on it feel when they actually do work and see their cash wasted on crackpot ideas. Maybe a poll would be good to see how many times people have been to the circus in their lives lollll
What you have to realise is this scheme will be aimed at the jobless, people going down the wrong road and the minorities so they can build self esteem and help fit in....... Maybe there will be womens only clown sessions to try and get it 50/50 as I am sure the huge percentage of clowns are men and that is discriminating against females lol. I am find it racist that clowns paint their faces white :o if they were painted black we would have 1000s of the great unwashed anti racism jobless marching on the circus lol

Hip-hop dancing :s im sure theres stuff like this going on all over the uk :s its free to dance but maybe a few pounds to go to lessons but we now want to get ppl dancing for free? be a place for them to buy their drugs while they are at it.

We give money to everybody who sits on their backside and its about time it stopped. These lazy baby farming families are now getting free computers and broadband and they get £500 to go and buy a new computer :s They should get refurished ex council laptops if anything at all.

[Catzsy]

It is about that, and its conformed to forum rules with the conversation moving ever so slightly to other issues of which me and alex have been debating about. Everybody posts their opinion in any thread otherwise we wouldnt have a forum in the first place and secondly we wouldnt be human. You say I shouldn't mention what UK culture is yet say we should talk about the subject at hand which is British culture. See the flaw there?



Haha too true. :)
+rep some common sense.

Well I do believe you would have a lot more credibility on the forum if you didn't force your views which are always the same constantly in different threads that are just a platform for you to endlessly discuss UKIP and the European Union and basically hijack other peoples threads and steer them in the same old way. Just my opinion, though. Oh yes a huge flaw in saying UK rather than Britain. Gained yourself a few brownie points there. :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well I do believe you would have a lot more credibility on the forum if you didn't force your views which are always the same constantly in different threads that are just a platform for you to endlessly discuss UKIP and the European Union and basically hijack other peoples threads and steer them in the same old way. Just my opinion, though. Oh yes a huge flaw in saying UK rather than Britain. Gained yourself a few brownie points there. :P

I'm not forcing my views on anybody, if you disagree that this is a waste of money then come out and say it rather than attacking me over UKIP which you have brought up. UKIP has little to do with this issue and had nothing to do with this issue until you (again) brought it up and look! - you are still at it. On the issue of the UK I have little idea what you are talking about(explain?) but I often refer to this country as the United Kingdom and always have (check various previous posts if you wish). The culture of this country has little to do with the circus which is a mainly European culture and is not distintivly British and the same goes for hip hop which originated in the United States.

If you think this is a good idea then tell me what is wrong with the concept of people paying for themselves if they wish to go to a circus/hip hop event because theres little doubt in my mind that most people on here rarely go the circus, if they go at all that is.

[Catzsy]

I'm not forcing my views on anybody, if you disagree that this is a waste of money then come out and say it rather than attacking me over UKIP which you have brought up. UKIP has little to do with this issue and had nothing to do with this issue until you (again) brought it up and look! - you are still at it. On the issue of the UK I have little idea what you are talking about(explain?) but I often refer to this country as the United Kingdom and always have (check various previous posts if you wish). The culture of this country has little to do with the circus which is a mainly European culture and is not distintivly British and the same goes for hip hop which originated in the United States.

If you think this is a good idea then tell me what is wrong with the concept of people paying for themselves if they wish to go to a circus/hip hop event because theres little doubt in my mind that most people on here rarely go the circus, if they go at all that is.

I am entitled to my opinion on your motives of posting the same way in all the threads. They are a decoy to enable you to go over the same ground again and again. Yes we know you don't like the European Union. Hip Hop may have originated in America in the same way as Roll and Roll did but it is now a part of our culture and Circus's are too having been first introduced in 1768 which I have already answered in another post.

It's the way you attack waste of money by saying they are not a part of our culture that aggravates me. It is almost as if you are blind to anything that is not colonial. Yes the EU wastes a lot of money but lets attack it as the multiculteral and diverse nation that we are not as the British Empire that was or from a party political standpoint as I am no more a marxist than you are a fascist. You see what I am saying here? I think investments in Culture and the Arts is a good thing provided there is demand from the population for it. I am more for a mixed economy where I feel the disadvantaged should be helped as you have more right wing views on it. Until the country unites and protests against this mounting bureaucracy that has got out of hand there will be no solution to it. I can still be leftish wing and see the waste of money but can still disagree on what you think 'Britain' now stands for.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I am entitled to my opinion on your motives of posting the same way in all the threads. They are a decoy to enable you to go over the same ground again and again. Yes we know you don't like the European Union. Hip Hop may have originated in America in the same way as Roll and Roll did but it is now a part of our culture and Circus's are too having been first introduced in 1768 which I have already answered in another post.

It's the way you attack waste of money by saying they are not a part of our culture that aggravates me. It is almost as if you are blind to anything that is not colonial. Yes the EU wastes a lot of money but lets attack it as the multiculteral and diverse nation that we are not as the British Empire that was or from a party political standpoint as I am no more a marxist than you are a fascist. You see what I am saying here? I think investments in Culture and the Arts is a good thing provided there is demand from the population for it. I am more for a mixed economy where I feel the disadvantaged should be helped as you have more right wing views on it. Until the country unites and protests against this mounting bureaucracy that has got out of hand there will be no solution to it. I can still be leftish wing and see the waste of money but can still disagree on what you think 'Britain' now stands for.

If course you are entitled to your opinion and I never said you were not - I am challenging your opinion just as you often challenge mine. As for part of our culture; I have never known anyone or heard of anyone who visits the circus often or even is an avid fan of hip hop and i'm seriously wondering whether you have. If anything in regards to my views i'm very libertarian in my methods and right wing in my views, as is the majority of England which voted for Michael Howard who was one of the most right wing leaders for many years over Tony Blair in 2005. The people should decide (Libertarianism aka Thatcherism) which is the opposite to Marxism (the left) and Facism (the extreme right).

You say an 'investment' but where is the investment in this? - why should the state take my money and give it to something that I have no interest in and which many others do not have interest in?. As for the country uniting, yes it will just as it did in 1979 which saw the end of a disasterous left wing government which has met its match in this one. The cirus was around during Roman Times from what I have read and as we know (or should know) the Roman Empire extended across Europe and thus is a European culture, not a British one. Even if it does have its revival roots in Britain, that still doesnt address the point that; a) most people dont even attend the circus and b) why should everyone be taxed for something they do not even have an interest in? - you call me colonial yet are hanging onto the idea of a circus being British which is from 1768 - times have changed i'm afraid.

There is a simple concept here that i'm getting at which is this; if you want to visit the circus then pay for it with your own money. If you want to do hip hop then pay for it with your own money - agree or disagree?

[Catzsy]

If course you are entitled to your opinion and I never said you were not - I am challenging your opinion just as you often challenge mine. As for part of our culture; I have never known anyone or heard of anyone who visits the circus often or even is an avid fan of hip hop and i'm seriously wondering whether you have. If anything in regards to my views i'm very libertarian in my methods and right wing in my views, as is the majority of England which voted for Michael Howard who was one of the most right wing leaders for many years over Tony Blair in 2005. The people should decide (Libertarianism aka Thatcherism) which is the opposite to Marxism (the left) and Facism (the extreme right).

You say an 'investment' but where is the investment in this? - why should the state take my money and give it to something that I have no interest in and which many others do not have interest in?. As for the country uniting, yes it will just as it did in 1979 which saw the end of a disasterous left wing government which has met its match in this one. The cirus was around during Roman Times from what I have read and as we know (or should know) the Roman Empire extended across Europe and thus is a European culture, not a British one. Even if it does have its revival roots in Britain, that still doesnt address the point that; a) most people dont even attend the circus and b) why should everyone be taxed for something they do not even have an interest in? - you call me colonial yet are hanging onto the idea of a circus being British which is from 1768 - times have changed i'm afraid.

There is a simple concept here that i'm getting at which is this; if you want to visit the circus then pay for it with your own money. If you want to do hip hop then pay for it with your own money - agree or disagree?

Circus's still remain a very popular family tradition in this counry but that's not what the thread is about - it is about EU wasting money and I will not be forced to answer your question. I don't have to and just because I don't doesn't mean you are right it just means that I do not agree with your tactics to try to prove a pont that is meaningless within the serious subject of EU waste.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Circus's still remain a very popular family tradition in this counry but that's not what the thread is about - it is about EU wasting money and I will not be forced to answer your question. I don't have to and just because I don't doesn't mean you are right it just means that I do not agree with your tactics to try to prove a pont that is meaningless within the serious subject of EU waste.

The circus is not a very popular tradition in this country, I dont know any people who go the circus often or at all even and infact i'm not even sure whether i've been to one myself to think about it - do you?

Of course because you dont want to answer my question doesnt mean I am right about it, but it means that I know you have little to back your view up on it which is a good sign to me if i'm honest. It'd be nice to hear your actual view but I get the gist that you agree with it but refuse to debate it. You said it was a good investment, I asked how it was a good investment and I get no response - and to think i've been accused in the past of not backing my views up.