[NOT HAPPY!] Health Form Bill Passed

[marriott0.01]

The US House of Representatives has narrowly voted to pass a landmark healthcare reform bill at the heart of President Barack Obama's agenda.
The bill was passed by 219 votes to 212, with no Republican backing, after hours of fierce argument and debate.
It extends coverage to 32 million more Americans, and marks the biggest change to the US healthcare system in decades.
"We proved that we are still a people capable of doing big things," Mr Obama said in remarks after the vote.
"This legislation will not fix everything that ails our healthcare system, but it moves us decisively in the right direction," he said.
Mr Obama is expected to sign the legislation into law shortly.
But a new challenge is expected in the Senate, where Democrats hope amendments to the bill will be enacted by a simple majority. Republicans say the move is unconstitutional and plan to stop it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8579322.stm

No way should it of passed.

[Catzsy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8579322.stm

No way should it of passed.

Any reason why it should not have been?

[marriott0.01]

Any reason why it should not have been?

Just side with Republicans all the time, and people should help themselves, not get the taxpayers to pay for everything especially for an economy in the toilet.

[Catzsy]

Just side with Republicans all the time, and people should help themselves, not get the taxpayers to pay for everything especially for an economy in the toilet.
Okay - fair comment. I don't know enough about the american system to make a valid comment but I know this was one of his original election pledges.

[Kieran]

Isn't that just going to make your system like the NHS?

[xxMATTGxx]

Don't you live in the UK though? I don't know you fully so I wouldn't know if you have any links with the USA like family and such. Some people have really annoyed me on another forum about this bill. Health care should be a right, not something you should need to earn.

[Catzsy]

Don't you live in the UK though? I don't know you fully so I wouldn't know if you have any links with the USA like family and such. Some people have really annoyed me on another forum about this bill. Health care should be a right, not something you should need to earn.

Well I agree on this point. It extends health insurance to another 32 million americans who didn't qualify for it and who presumably had to suffer before - I do think they have to contribute. It's a humanitarian thing to do. Good for him I say in not backing down on a fairly unpopular election pledge and carrying it through despite huge opposition.

[marriott0.01]

Don't you live in the UK though? I don't know you fully so I wouldn't know if you have any links with the USA like family and such. Some people have really annoyed me on another forum about this bill. Health care should be a right, not something you should need to earn.

Was born in the USA, family live there. And Health Care is very expensive, why should people who work hard pay for people's health care when all they do is sit on their lazy butts and do nothing to help the economy.

[xxMATTGxx]

Well I agree on this point. It extends health insurance to another 32 million americans who didn't qualify for it and who presumably had to suffer before - I do think they have to contribute. It's a humanitarian thing to do. Good for him I say in not backing down on a fairly unpopular election pledge and carrying it through despite huge opposition.

Yeah, I agree that people should be contributing but not everyone can work or afford it. Here is a view from one Amercian:


When diabetics spend upwards of $200-300 a month (living paycheck to paycheck) out of pocket because the insurer won't pay for it, that's wrong, and nobody should be treated that way. People can't prevent unforseen circumstances, such as diabetes or high blood pressure. How is that fair?

If I cannot find a job, and there are no jobs where I live, so don't start about laziness like that, there is no way I can get healthcare unless my mom is working. My mom is working two states away because that's where the jobs are.

If you think today's healthcare system is fine and dandy, it's time to wake up. It's not. When your neighbor has to declare bankruptcy because his wife got breast cancer and their insurance dropped, I'd like you to say to their face "It's your fault and I don't want to help you".

Quit acting like America is the best place ever, and start considering what types of benefits you have over everybody else. It's unfair to deny people a doctor, but provide them with a lawyer.

I agree with what he is saying to be honest.



Was born in the USA, family live there. And Health Care is very expensive, why should people who work hard pay for people's health care when all they do is sit on their lazy butts and do nothing to help the economy.

Not everyone is lazy though, there might not be any jobs around that person or they may not be able to work due to medical reasons. They should still have a right to have healthcare?

[Alkaz]

I agree with what Matt has said. There will probably be a lot more hard working families who barely make a living and can't actually pay for their health care than those who just sit back and don't really do much at all. Are you saying that because of the lazy people that those hard working people who barely can afford to live don't deserve this? Personally I think this is a really good idea.

[Catzsy]

Yeah, I agree that people should be contributing but not everyone can work or afford it. Here is a view from one Amercian:



I agree with what he is saying to be honest.




Not everyone is lazy though, there might not be any jobs around that person or they may not be able to work due to medical reasons. They should still have a right to have healthcare?

What I meant is that I think they have to contribute a small amount whereas before they just couldn't get any insurance at all. I personally think our NHS is great. All people seem to moan about paying until they need it themselves.

[marriott0.01]

Yeah, I agree that people should be contributing but not everyone can work or afford it. Here is a view from one Amercian:



I agree with what he is saying to be honest.




Not everyone is lazy though, there might not be any jobs around that person or they may not be able to work due to medical reasons. They should still have a right to have healthcare?

I just really don't believe in the benefit system, I don't like the fact that my hard earned cash could go to help other people.

[Catzsy]

I just really don't believe in the benefit system, I don't like the fact that my hard earned cash could go to help other people.

So you or your family refuse doctor/ national health treament and free education?

[marriott0.01]

So you or your family refuse doctor/ national health treament and free education?

Both of those we have privately. :) x

[Catzsy]

Both of those we have privately. :) x

Sorry if you live in the UK I cannot see that happening. :P

[Hitman]

Hahahaha!

Was very close, 212 votes against and 219 for I think.

[marriott0.01]

Sorry if you live in the UK I cannot see that happening. :P

We live in the UK yes. Moved from the US when I was 3. Private schools are actually rather popular.

I bet this thread makes me incredibly unpopular as well, I sound quite obnoxious, but there is no problem voicing my opinion.

[xxMATTGxx]

I just really don't believe in the benefit system, I don't like the fact that my hard earned cash could go to help other people.

There is nothing wrong with free education, health care and so on. It helps people and it makes this country quiet good compared to other countries around the world. Everyone in the UK can have an education, surely that is a good thing? Yes people may want to go private for education or health care but not everyone can afford such things.

Just to add on: Our benefit system may have problems but benefits such as education and the health care system are not that bad.

[Kieran]

We live in the UK yes. Moved from the US when I was 3. Private schools are actually rather popular.

I bet this thread makes me incredibly unpopular as well, I sound quite obnoxious, but there is no problem voicing my opinion.

You're right, it does make you sound obnoxious. I think our NHS is great, not having to pay except for prescription medicine which is a set small fee. I don't agree with the benefit system but I do agree with the health system. I also attended a private school so my parents are pumping a considerable amount of money in to the government through income tax and sure it's annoying seeing it go to people on benefits but at the same time its going towards the NHS.

[marriott0.01]

You're right, it does make you sound obnoxious. I think our NHS is great, not having to pay except for prescription medicine which is a set small fee. I don't agree with the benefit system but I do agree with the health system. I also attended a private school so my parents are pumping a considerable amount of money in to the government through income tax and sure it's annoying seeing it go to people on benefits but at the same time its going towards the NHS.

The NHS is reeked with problems I would never go with them. You get the lowest quality care, because your just another number and statistic in the NHS, whereas private they need your business so they care for you. Which is why I prefer it. Why not put money towards plans to regenerate other things like Internet speeds for one, or trains etc.. Money is needed there more than a healthcare system which fails :D

[Jamesy]

The NHS is reeked with problems I would never go with them. You get the lowest quality care, because your just another number and statistic in the NHS, whereas private they need your business so they care for you. Which is why I prefer it. Why not put money towards plans to regenerate other things like Internet speeds for one, or trains etc.. Money is needed there more than a healthcare system which fails :D

The NHS has been mis-managed somewhat but I would not like to live in a country where if I get sick I have to pay half my house to cover it. The importance comes in choice. You can choose private but for those who haven't the means to do so why must they suffer? Health Care is a human right as far as I am aware.

[Catzsy]

So what private healthcare company are you with then?

[marriott0.01]

So what private healthcare company are you with then?

Bupa.


The NHS has been mis-managed somewhat but I would not like to live in a country where if I get sick I have to pay half my house to cover it. The importance comes in choice. You can choose private but for those who haven't the means to do so why must they suffer? Health Care is a human right as far as I am aware.

Health Insurance isn't exactly an arm and a leg, nowadays it's actually really cheap, so there is no reason people can't afford it. And I don't believe in this, well to a small degree I do (which'll make me sounds snobbish), but have you ever heard of Social Cleansing, where basically the elite survive and the poorest of the poor, who contribute nothing to society don't?

[Catzsy]

Bupa.



Health Insurance isn't exactly an arm and a leg, nowadays it's actually really cheap, so there is no reason people can't afford it. And I don't believe in this, well to a small degree I do (which'll make me sounds snobbish), but have you ever heard of Social Cleansing, where basically the elite survive and the poorest of the poor, who contribute nothing to society don't?

So we just leave people to die in the streets? So if somebody is born with Cystic Fibrosis or Downs Syndrome then
we just do nothing? Sounds remarkably like what is suggested in Mein Kamf.

[xxMATTGxx]

Bupa.



Health Insurance isn't exactly an arm and a leg, nowadays it's actually really cheap, so there is no reason people can't afford it. And I don't believe in this, well to a small degree I do (which'll make me sounds snobbish), but have you ever heard of Social Cleansing, where basically the elite survive and the poorest of the poor, who contribute nothing to society don't?

How much is this private health care then? I want to know to see if it is cheap.

[marriott0.01]

So we just leave people to die in the streets? So if somebody is born with Cystic Fibrosis or Downs Syndrome then
we just do nothing?

Well, some people with them diseases are born into rich families, and they've always got help available to them through charities, it's not the government's or the taxpayers responsibility.

[xxMATTGxx]

Well, some people with them diseases are born into rich families, and they've always got help available to them through charities, it's not the government's or the taxpayers responsibility.

So the government should let everyone die then? That is just stupid. This is about the United Kingdom, an MEDC. We are not a 3rd world county, we have good quality health care which anyone can use. We don't just let people die on the streets, because we are not like that.

[Catzsy]

Well, some people with them diseases are born into rich families, and they've always got help available to them through charities, it's not the government's or the taxpayers responsibility.

And where do all these charities get their money from? Also tell me what is your definition of social cleansing?

Also as Matt enquired how much do you pay for the private health care?

[Kieran]

Well, some people with them diseases are born into rich families, and they've always got help available to them through charities, it's not the government's or the taxpayers responsibility.

You talk utter crap.

[marriott0.01]

So the government should let everyone die then? That is just stupid. This is about the United Kingdom, an MEDC. We are not a 3rd world county, we have good quality health care which anyone can use. We don't just let people die on the streets, because we are not like that.

America's health care system had amazing health care? And America was the world's most powerful country, the biggest MEDC. So believe it or not you don't need FREE health care to be an MEDC. And the government should just let them die, no offence, if they contribute nothing to the country themselves. It's people's kindness that saves other people. And in Japan, you have to pay for certain things in their health care. And they have the best in the world!?

[Jamesy]

America's health care system had amazing health care? And America was the world's most powerful country, the biggest MEDC. So believe it or not you don't need FREE health care to be an MEDC. And the government should just let them die, no offence, if they contribute nothing to the country themselves. It's people's kindness that saves other people. And in Japan, you have to pay for certain things in their health care. And they have the best in the world!?

America's healthcare system is rated 37th in the world by the World Health Organisation. Just above Slovenia.

[Pyroka]

Its a step in the right direction for America in my opinion, however I think it'll be a long time before something as firm as the NHS is established. Private practices will still exist anyway, so they haven't radicalised all healthcare, they've just introduced another option which would help the American people. Nothing wrong with choice right?

[Catzsy]

America's health care system had amazing health care? And America was the world's most powerful country, the biggest MEDC. So believe it or not you don't need FREE health care to be an MEDC. And the government should just let them die, no offence, if they contribute nothing to the country themselves. It's people's kindness that saves other people. And in Japan, you have to pay for certain things in their health care. And they have the best in the world!?


Hmm ....
More than 14,000 emergency patients were rejected at least three times by Japanese hospitals before getting treatment in 2007, according to the government survey for that year. In some of the more publicized cases an elderly man was turned away by 14 hospitals before dying 90 minutes after being finally admitted. In another case a pregnant woman complaining of a severe headache was refused admission to seven Tokyo hospitals. She later died of an undiagnosed brain hemorrhage after giving birth.

Not nice do you think? You haven't actually answered the question - how much do you pay for Health insurance? I am also guessing you use no public facilities at all such as a library, swimming pool etc. Do you also pay the full private amount for medication or get a prescription?

[Kieran]

Market leader BUPA quotes £1,662 for its most comprehensive plan. Taken from The Guardian

[Catzsy]

Market leader BUPA quotes £1,662 for its most comprehensive plan. Taken from The Guardian

For one person or a family?

[Kieran]

Seems to be around £300 a month for a family of four from what values I can find on the internet.

[Hiro]

Wow, just wow. I'm glad I don't live it marriott's world. I'd be dead, you know, being unemployed and all.

Oh and I know people in the US, one of them had a broken nose - paid $250 for a diagnosis, and then was referred to a nose specialist, which costed another $350 for a week. That's half a months pay for some people, it's stupid. I'm happy that the USA have passed this bill.
As for your "social cleansing". get the **** out.
A tiny bit of your parent's cash goes to helping out the country, along with everyone else's and you're complaining about it. You need to live in the real world and take out the silver spoon in your mouth, when you finish education, you may well struggle getting work, which would put you on the ranks of "doing nothing for the country". But because of your parent's status of being "rich", you'd survive? That's ********.
I've been unemployed for 2 years because of the lack of jobs roaming around, and I still find ways to pay board to my parents...

[marriott0.01]

I've just had a sigh of relief, this thing isn't through yet it's just out of the houses, it's going to court :D

[Jordy]

lol why do you sigh for relief, you don't live there so it won't effect you?

I can almost sympathise with Americans who don't want this to go through though, this only benefits the working class and no one else, they're still having to pay. If they were all entitled to free health care, everyone would then benefit seeing as everyone would get healthcare and health insurance wouldn't be necessary. Although I suppose it is a step in the right direction, I do see why people might be cheesed off by it.

I'm betting you don't even know what the NHS is like, you've probably just heard horrendous stories in a newspaper. There is a few problems with it but from my own and my families experiences with the NHS, they have all been very positive.

[Kieran]

If the NHS is so bad then explain this to me....

For my CAA class 1 medical, I had to have an ECG done because of a suspected heart murmur. I went to my GP and told him how important it was it gone done quickly. I got a phone cal the next day from a PRIVATE health clinic. My GP had gone and got the NHS to pay for my private treatment which would have cost me £300. You're telling me that's crap? I don't think so!

[Hecktix]

I laugh at you talking about healthcare as a benefit.

Yes, that's it, the ability to live is a benefit, not a right or anything...

[GommeInc]

The NHS is reeked with problems I would never go with them. You get the lowest quality care, because your just another number and statistic in the NHS, whereas private they need your business so they care for you. Which is why I prefer it. Why not put money towards plans to regenerate other things like Internet speeds for one, or trains etc.. Money is needed there more than a healthcare system which fails :D
That's a pretty blind opinion... The NHS does more good than bad. All healthcare systems around the world have bad things about them, some countries more so than others. You're not one of these people that reads the newspaper and assumes one bad thing means there's no hope? Private healthcare sponges off the NHS anyway, BUPA being the main culprit.

EDIT: Just read the rest of the thread. You're with BUPA? Lol. Most of what BUPA does is funded or aided by the NHS - they barely own anything and all major operations have to be done by the NHS. The only good BUPA are there for is "cosmetic"surgery - small ops like knees, toes, jaws... Key hole stuff. Major ops have to be forwarded to the NHS, and the after care is also done by the NHS. BUPA, for example, do not do accidents and emergency, waste of time.

[jrh2002]

Was born in the USA, family live there. And Health Care is very expensive, why should people who work hard pay for people's health care when all they do is sit on their lazy butts and do nothing to help the economy.

I wonder if America will get health tourists like the UK who roll up and get operations on credit only never pay their bill......... If you dont pay health care you can make one off payments for any treatment needed. Obama seems to have really dropped down in popularity so suppose getting this one thing done might help pick him up a bit.

I am more on to the UK here but why should people who work hard and pay taxes contribute to the great unwashed to get it all for free? Why should people who have worked all their lives and paid for their own home be forced to sell it if they need care when yet again the people with a life on benefits get it for free? Why should people who have savings etc be forced to pay this new 20k death tax when yet again the benefit scroungers dont have to pay a penny. What incentive is there to work hard in life when you just get penalised and also expected to pay for the idles scum. Yes i know a minority of people need help and fully support that but theres a majority who use benefits as though its their careers. Look at the amount of disabled scooters given out to the obese :o when really these fat slobs should be bought a treadmill instead if anything at all. We should be able to opt out of paying National Insurance or a percentage of it if we sort our own healthcare. Lots of countries abroad refuse to treat you if you cant pay before and I fully support that :o If they drop dead then their free loading waste of space organs can be used on the people who need it and work hard to PAY for the lazy wasters. We should stop child support etc and if you have a kid you must be able to afford it and if not then your kid gets taken off you and put up for adoption :o The country is falling apart with lazy baby farming single mothers who get everything for free and the drug addicts/drunks who we must feel sorry for because the poor people have had a hard life. I saw a bit about africa on sport relief and this woman wondered why she had aids even though her husband had god knows how many wives...... we even pay for their healthcare through our overseas aid :s i mean why do we want to give all the aids victims drugs to keep them alive longer? all the do is pass it around some more the longer they live so maybe they should be hurried up to die to try and rid the disease. I am really pissed off having to pay LOTS of tax for everybody who is more than happy to take take take. We now have more going out on benefits in the UK than we have coming in from income tax :s even an idiot must realise thats not sustainable. I am all for helping the people who are in need of help but we must get so much tougher.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I believe that while something was needed to reign in the medical insurers as well as the need for those genuinely poorer and in desperate need of healthcare, the measures announced are too costly and too far. While most people are unaware;- America is under staggering debt levels that quite honestly, are frightening and a risk to the future of the Western World with the rise of China. Essentially what i'm getting at is that we are using their money to buy our own rope so that in the end, they can hang us.

[alexxxxx]

from what i've read it's been watered down to such an extent that it doesn't really achieve much at all. tbh i don't really care what you say about the NHS because frankly I like being able to go to the doctor when i want, however many times I want, without being excluded because of pre-existing conditions, getting my £6 prescription and going home without having to fill out a form or calling someone to see if they will pay. i think there should be some sort of health tourism safeguards but honestly i'd hate it to be like the usa.

[Catzsy]

Jrh - I wish you would write in paragraphs- your posts are so hard to read :( You have pretty hardline attitudes which I guess you are entitled to but here are you actually advocating murdering people with aids?:O


by jrh2002 we even pay for their healthcare through our overseas aid :s i mean why do we want to give all the aids victims drugs to keep them alive longer? all the do is pass it around some more the longer they live so maybe they should be hurried up to die to try and rid the disease.

[Technologic]

When I broke my wrist i was referred to a doctor after waiting 20 minutes in A&E, they then sent me for an X-ray, then an MRI and put me in a cast for free. Then I had 5 check ups, 2 further x-rays... also for free.....

I'd rather wait 20 minutes than pay £3000 for it

[dbgtz]

I agree and disagree with arguements in here. I don't think benefits should exist (like ema, child benefits etc) but education and the NHS are not benefits imo, they're a right. Plus you could see it as an investment, more people alive more people to make money = more taxed cash. Same with education, more people in work more people getting money for the government and possibly less benefit claims.

I think what the U.S. are doing is a good idea but they havn't thought it through properly, hence why I don't like Obama no more, he seems to just push and push until he gets his way.

Top 40 healthcare
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei

[-:Undertaker:-]

The NHS will have to be privatised or undergo a massive change in the way it is run, its fact. We (the western world) and less so America are heading for a demographic crisis within the next 10 to 20 years were its just going to reach levels needed to fund the NHS that its just simply quite scary. I favour the American model but with more control over the insurers.

[alexxxxx]

The NHS will have to be privatised or undergo a massive change in the way it is run, its fact. We (the western world) and less so America are heading for a demographic crisis within the next 10 to 20 years were its just going to reach levels needed to fund the NHS that its just simply quite scary. I favour the American model but with more control over the insurers.

i would prefer that the hospitals are privatised and the government pays for those eligible (ie everyone british/eu) if we had to privatise at all. Making people have to pay for their own insurance just plays into the hands of monopolists and whichever regulator takes it on will be under constant pressure from insurers (see OFCOM, OFWATT). The levels used to fund the NHS will only spill over to insurers (with a suitable mark-up of course).

[Technologic]

Privatisation leads to a monopoly based only on money, not care.

[-:Undertaker:-]

i would prefer that the hospitals are privatised and the government pays for those eligible (ie everyone british/eu) if we had to privatise at all. Making people have to pay for their own insurance just plays into the hands of monopolists and whichever regulator takes it on will be under constant pressure from insurers (see OFCOM, OFWATT). The levels used to fund the NHS will only spill over to insurers (with a suitable mark-up of course).

I think at the moment we have a system like that and it turns out that the NHS is paying rip-off prices for the building of hospitals although I suppose you mean privately owned rather than built so I see what you are saying. Would it not just be best to keep a cap on the insurers though? - i'm all for low government control and privatisation but for issues such as medical insurance and now gas/heating bills there needs to be a limit on the monopoly.

[alexxxxx]

I think at the moment we have a system like that and it turns out that the NHS is paying rip-off prices for the building of hospitals although I suppose you mean privately owned rather than built so I see what you are saying. Would it not just be best to keep a cap on the insurers though? - i'm all for low government control and privatisation but for issues such as medical insurance and now gas/heating bills there needs to be a limit on the monopoly.

privately owned and built. no, because unfortunately the insurance people will destroy any sort of regulator in the end and they are not accountable enough. A system where people could get a tax break, less than the value of the insurance, if they get their own insurance and prove they have it, which would put pressure on insurance companies to lower prices, improve service, because at the end of the day people can revert back to the government system.

[Seatherny]

Both of those we have privately. :) x

Before I make a huge post to show everyone why you are the typical person I dislike very much, I must ask, your private health system, who do you use? BUPA?
Have you ever used the NHS?
How many £millions do your parents have / are they rich?

Edit: Just noticed Catzsy asked you and you said BUPA. But please answer my other questions.

[HotelUser]

Wanting people to pay for say, cancer medication when they don't have enough money when it is a matter of insignificant money you'd have to spend is sheer ignorance.

[jrh2002]

Jrh - I wish you would write in paragraphs- your posts are so hard to read :( You have pretty hardline attitudes which I guess you are entitled to but here are you actually advocating murdering people with aids?:O

I will try to make it easier to read in future :) I just get carried away and my short comment snowballs.

Some of these african countries have up to 25% of their population with HIV/Aids and they are not being educated :( The get told they have the disease and go home and sleep with all their wives :o They will not use contraception and give religion etc as their reasoning. Unless we can educate these people then no way should we be spending money on them to keep them alive longer just to spread the disease even more. I dont think we should give any overseas aid but thats another subject. People who catch HIV in the UK are very well educated about the disease and with the correct treatment will live as long as most of us and they will also stay safe.

I would not tell anybody to murder but I cant deny that if our great leader ended up in a body bag I would have a little smile.

My parents and I have never claimed a penny so I dont see why we should have to pay for everybody :o I dont mind paying to help my friends and family but not everybody. I pay a lot in tax (Did avoid it but cant now) and never minded a bit of give and take but now it is me with the give and give and everybody else with the take and take. I am disgusted seeing how Labour waste my taxes on 100s non deserving people/causes.

I think you and Undertaker should agree to disagree because it is starting to become a little personal. I love Undertakers political views and really hope he is going to try for a career in politics and whether you agree with his views or not we need a very broad spectrum of people who ask the difficult questions as our MP's will not tell you anything unless you ask and then lie. I also see where you are coming from and respect your views :) I do think your signature stating UKIP and the BNP want to take us back to the 19th century is a bit bad :( They are the only 2 parties that that are addressing a lot of the concerns of many UK citizens because the major parties are to scared to talk about them so of course people will look elsewhere.

[Catzsy]

I think you and Undertaker should agree to disagree because it is starting to become a little personal. I love Undertakers political views and really hope he is going to try for a career in politics and whether you agree with his views or not we need a very broad spectrum of people who ask the difficult questions as our MP's will not tell you anything unless you ask and then lie. I also see where you are coming from and respect your views I do think your signature stating UKIP and the BNP want to take us back to the 19th century is a bit bad They are the only 2 parties that that are addressing a lot of the concerns of many UK citizens because the major parties are to scared to talk about them so of course people will look elsewhere

Well at least Undertaker has more than one fan then :P The signature is a parody and not meant to be taken seriously Jrh but quite frankly I don't agree that he is MP material at all. He would be chewed up and swallowed out in a minute as he doesn't have the research and evidence to back up his posts. Yes if people want to hear this sort of thing that it sounds great but it doesn't stand up to any scrutiny. I don't have anything personally against him at all but I claim the right to my opinions too . xox

[-:Undertaker:-]

privately owned and built. no, because unfortunately the insurance people will destroy any sort of regulator in the end and they are not accountable enough. A system where people could get a tax break, less than the value of the insurance, if they get their own insurance and prove they have it, which would put pressure on insurance companies to lower prices, improve service, because at the end of the day people can revert back to the government system.

We would need strong legislation, the French are a country to look to when it comes to regulation of major companies such as the gas industry. Whatever the solution though, we are heading for a demographic crisis within the coming decade or two and its rather scary.


Well at least Undertaker has more than one fan then :P The signature is a parody and not meant to be taken seriously Jrh but quite frankly I don't agree that he is MP material at all. He would be chewed up and swallowed out in a minute as he doesn't have the research and evidence to back up his posts. Yes if people want to hear this sort of thing that it sounds great but it doesn't stand up to any scrutiny. I don't have anything personally against him at all but I claim the right to my opinions too . xox

Well when I do provide various polls and sources on your request, you just rubbish them anyway. Its lose lose for me.

[jrh2002]

Jrh - I wish you would write in paragraphs- your posts are so hard to read :( You have pretty hardline attitudes which I guess you are entitled to but here are you actually advocating murdering people with aids?:O


Well at least Undertaker has more than one fan then :P The signature is a parody and not meant to be taken seriously Jrh but quite frankly I don't agree that he is MP material at all. He would be chewed up and swallowed out in a minute as he doesn't have the research and evidence to back up his posts. Yes if people want to hear this sort of thing that it sounds great but it doesn't stand up to any scrutiny. I don't have anything personally against him at all but I claim the right to my opinions too . xox

Well he always backs himself up pretty well and usually provides a good argument with decent evidence :) We dont always get everything right and that includes everybody on here. There are plenty of politicians who have no idea what they are on about and all they can do is give replies to something that was not even asked lol as well as lots of geeks with no personality so we need some outspoken people who put the UK first. I have met a couple of MP's and people who want careers in politics and I can assure you they have no idea about the real world and never done a days proper work in their lives so you give them way to much credit.

[Catzsy]

Well he always backs himself up pretty well and usually provides a good argument with decent evidence :) We dont always get everything right and that includes everybody on here. There are plenty of politicians who have no idea what they are on about and all they can do is give replies to something that was not even asked lol as well as lots of geeks with no personality so we need some outspoken people who put the UK first. I have met a couple of MP's and people who want careers in politics and I can assure you they have no idea about the real world and never done a days proper work in their lives so you give them way to much credit.


Well of course you are entitled to your opinion which of course I do not have to agree with! :P

[ChickenFaces]

I do agree with you when you say that people are lazy in the U.S. (I know cuz I am)

But really I think this could do some real good for us. I mean. . . If people don't have to pay for healthcare that means that there will be more money to spend. More money = YAY WE'RE OUT OF THE RECESSION GO US :)

[marriott0.01]

I do agree with you when you say that people are lazy in the U.S. (I know cuz I am)

But really I think this could do some real good for us. I mean. . . If people don't have to pay for healthcare that means that there will be more money to spend. More money = YAY WE'RE OUT OF THE RECESSION GO US :)

More money for actual consumers to spend, but less for the US Government to spend on bailing out crippled companies - RECESSION WORSENS WOO!

[Wig44.]

The NHS is reeked with problems I would never go with them. You get the lowest quality care, because your just another number and statistic in the NHS, whereas private they need your business so they care for you. Which is why I prefer it. Why not put money towards plans to regenerate other things like Internet speeds for one, or trains etc.. Money is needed there more than a healthcare system which fails :D

Got a good laugh out of this joker!

So if you are in a car crash for instance (out of the many injuries/accidents that can result in you being unconscious) and don't have family with you - which you won't most of the time, what are you going to do then? I'll tell you what, a member of the public will save your sorry arse by phoning 999 and the NHS will mop you up for free. Try rejecting it when it's your only option.

And about your social cleansing, I'd like to say that if that happened then society would collapse, and since I doubt you have a great deal of money (just a big head and a big ego, and cheap private health care and education) you yourself would be purged. Personally I think we should cleanse based on ignorance, which would put you at the top of the list.

I'd also like to thank marriott0.02 for -repping me without leaving his name :) Thanks!

[marriott0.01]

Got a good laugh out of this joker!

So if you are in a car crash for instance (out of the many injuries/accidents that can result in you being unconscious) and don't have family with you - which you won't most of the time, what are you going to do then? I'll tell you what, a member of the public will save your sorry arse by phoning 999 and the NHS will mop you up for free. Try rejecting it when it's your only option.

And about your social cleansing, I'd like to say that if that happened then society would collapse, and since I doubt you have a great deal of money (just a big head and a big ego, and cheap private health care and education) you yourself would be purged. Personally I think we should cleanse based on ignorance, which would put you at the top of the list.

Actually I wouldn't go to an NHS Hospital, I'll be going to my nearest private Hospital if it was something like that it'll have to be one with an A&E Unit, which the nearest to me is further than my Private Hospital.

[alexxxxx]

Actually I wouldn't go to an NHS Hospital, I'll be going to my nearest private Hospital if it was something like that it'll have to be one with an A&E Unit, which the nearest to me is further than my Private Hospital.

i didn't know there were such things as a private a&e department. nor how you'd argue with the ambulance to send you there.

[Wig44.]

Can you read? How would you do that if you were unconscious without people there who know to phone your private health provider? 999 would be called by a helpful member of the public, an NHS AMBULANCE sent, and even IF you regained consciousness in the ambulance I'm pretty much 100% sure you wouldn't refuse the service. Plus that means nothing, if you didn't regain consciousness it would be the nhs who sorted you out and possibly saved your life. to make things fair, people like you (who are so anti-nhs and have private healthcare) should not be allowed to use NHS facilities. You would be sorry then.

[Recursion]

AFAIK there is no such thing as a private A&E...

[marriott0.01]

AFAIK there is no such thing as a private A&E...

My Private Hospital has an Emergency Clinic, which he is essentially describing...

[Hecktix]

There isn't a Private A&E, you would be taken to an NHS A&E by an ambulance and recieve all emergency treatment at the A&E department, if you are required to stay in hospital after the accident, you (or your family if you are unable to) can then request to be moved to a private hospital.

How would I know... been there, done that.

Oh, and my mum works for BUPA.

[xxMATTGxx]

My Private Hospital has an Emergency Clinic, which he is essentially describing...

But how would they know to take you there? They don't. The ambulance crew who would start treatment on you would by hired by the NHS and would take you to the nearest NHS A&E department. They do not have time to phone around and ask if you are private, people who have noticed the crash would phone 999. Not some other number for private health care!

[marriott0.01]

But how would they know to take you there? They don't. The ambulance who would start treatment on you would by hired by the NHS and would take you to the nearest NHS A&E department. They do not have time to phone around and ask if you are private, people who have noticed the crash would phone 999. Not some other number for private health care!

They have these things called Records ;) And we wouldn't have this problem if there was no NHS. Essentially what I want.

[xxMATTGxx]

They have these things called Records ;) And we wouldn't have this problem if there was no NHS. Essentially what I want.

You being serious? So paramedics will have time going through records LOL! So your in life threatening conditions and they are there looking through records to see where to take you. I do not think so.

NHS is one the best things in this country, do not slate it. It may have problems but it si very good health care and we do not have to spend thousands of pound a month for private health care. Which I may add, people may not be able to afford. We are in a recession after all!

[marriott0.01]

You being serious? So paramedics will have time going through records LOL! So your in life threatening conditions and they are there looking through records to see where to take you. I do not think so.

NHS is one the best things in this country, do not slate it. It may have problems but it si very good health care and we do not have to spend thousands of pound a month for private health care. Which I may add, people may not be able to afford. We are in a recession after all!

With no NHS, there is no need for as high tax as we have now? So people would have money still... And yes we are in a recession so why should a government be wasting billions on the the NHS.

And I would prefer them to check my records, and my family if they find out they can request that the NHS stop their treatment and move me to a Private Hospital, which they would certainly do.

[Recursion]

With no NHS, there is no need for as high tax as we have now? So people would have money still... And yes we are in a recession so why should a government be wasting billions on the the NHS.

And I would prefer them to check my records, and my family if they find out they can request that the NHS stop their treatment and move me to a Private Hospital, which they would certainly do.

30 seconds to live, do they start resuscitation or check your records to move you on to Bupa? Your choice.

Personally I would carry on paying for the NHS, not had any problems with them yet.

If you were in a car crash and in a critical state the NHS will take care of you until you're in a stable condition before moving you on to a private hospital.

[xxMATTGxx]

30 seconds to live, do they start resucitation or check your records to move you on to Bupa? Your choice.

Personally I would carry on paying for the NHS, not had any problems with them yet.

Agreed.

So your family would tell them to stop any treatment that is keeping you alive while they move you to another hospital? I don't think that would happen. Unless you wanted that to happen of course, but I'm sure they are not even allowed to do that.

[Wig44.]

Lots of people cannot afford private health care, if you don't like it, go back to the USA since most people in the UK are happy with things the NHS. I really hate it when people emmigrate to the UK and then just moan and groan about a much loved service, the NHS, as well as lots of other services. Whilst I think the 'don't like it then go away' attitude isn't great in a lot of situations, in this situation where you're in a significant minority I think you should go home.

[Recursion]

Lots of people cannot afford private health care, if you don't like it, go back to the USA since most people in the UK are happy with things the NHS. I really hate it when people emmigrate to the UK and then just moan and groan about a much loved service, the NHS, as well as lots of other services. Whilst I think the 'don't like it then go away' attitude isn't great in a lot of situations, in this situation where you're in a significant minority I think you should go home.

+REP. Exactly what I was thinking.

[Jordy]

The funny thing is, you have no idea about private healthcare, yet you're the one paying for it (or your family). They don't have private A&Es, you move there when you are in a stable condition.

[Seatherny]

Ohhh I am going to have fun replying to this thread, I am sure of that.

My replies also take into consideration these comments:



Have you ever used the NHS? No, but I know people who have and they can't say anything good about it, they literally despise it.

How many £millions do your parents have / are they rich? I don't like to put a figure to it, but I can say that we have a considerable amount of wealth, yes.

So lets begin.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8579322.stm

No way should it of passed.


Just side with Republicans all the time, and people should help themselves, not get the taxpayers to pay for everything especially for an economy in the toilet.

So basically you like everything the Republicans say? So you are incapable of forming your own opinions? So if Republicans say "lets kill everyone who is in the U.K. right this moment" you will support them 100%? Great to know you have such a great thinking :D.


Was born in the USA, family live there. And Health Care is very expensive, why should people who work hard pay for people's health care when all they do is sit on their lazy butts and do nothing to help the economy.

Do Soldiers sit on their lazy butt doing nothing? In your world they must be doing nothing at all. An average soldier in the United Kingdom (btw soldiers are the people who put their life at risk for their country .. not sure if private schools teach people that or just how to boast about their parents money) earns £25,000 a year. Research by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation (mannn bet they didn't teach you at in your golden school ... ask for a refund) found that a family consisting of a couple and four children need £26,425.36 a year in living costs. Uh oh, the soldier who does nothing all day is screwed! Btw that is without private NHS, education for kids etc.

Lets say the couple had 3 children, then they need £24216.92 per year in living costs. Ohhh the lucky soldier! He has enough in living costs ... but if we had your way ... you know, private everything, the soldier can save a whopping £783.08 if his family never got ill or wanted education. Sounds good for a dude who does nothing eh?

Lets say he had two children. His family would need £19,242.60 per year. Not bad eh? Lets say it costs him £1,200 for BUPA for his whole family. Then two kids. Well I am sure they wont mind not having education. I mean its only £9,240 per year per kid.

Go and try and find a job. Its not easy. Even with amazing qualifications, people are unable to find jobs.


I just really don't believe in the benefit system, I don't like the fact that my hard earned cash could go to help other people.

Your hard earned cash? Don't make me laugh. Your families probably.


Both of those we have privately. :) x

Well done :).


The NHS is reeked with problems I would never go with them. You get the lowest quality care, because your just another number and statistic in the NHS, whereas private they need your business so they care for you. Which is why I prefer it. Why not put money towards plans to regenerate other things like Internet speeds for one, or trains etc.. Money is needed there more than a healthcare system which fails :D

You would never go with them? I am sure for some things with BUPA, you need NHS referral first. NHS does suck. I mean America's health care is WAYYYYYY better than crappy NHS. I mean thats why UK's NHS is ranked higher than the American health care. Damn, fire the idiot who put UK higher on the list. Must have gone to a public school so must have gotten crappy education. Or maybeee he used the free NHS and they gave him crap treatment and messed his brains up.

So you would never go with the NHS? So basically you will sit at home and do nothing if you got any of these (because BUPA doesn't treat for these):

* Ageing, menopause and puberty
* AIDS / HIV‡
* Allergies or allergic disorders
* Birth control, conception, sexual problems and sex changes‡
* Chronic conditions‡
* Complications from excluded or restricted conditions / treatment
* Convalescence, rehabilitation and general nursing care‡
* Cosmetic, reconstructive or weight loss treatment‡
* Deafness
* Dental / oral treatment (such as fillings, gum disease, jaw shrinkage etc)‡
* Dialysis‡
* Drugs and dressings for out-patient or take-home use‡
* Experimental drugs and treatment‡
* Treatment to correct eyesight (eg long or short sight)‡
* HRT and bone densitometry‡
* Learning difficulties, behavioural and developmental problems
* Overseas treatment and repatriation
* Physical aids and devices‡
* Pre-existing or special conditions
* Pregnancy and childbirth‡
* Screening and preventive treatment
* Sleep problems and disorders
* Speech disorders‡
* Temporary relief of symptoms‡
* Unrecognised providers or facilities

Lets hope you mum never gets pregnant or any of your family members or they will have to use that awful thing called the NHS.
Lets also hope no one's kidney fails ... (its the thing needed when a person's kidney fails ... what have those private schools done? You should really demand a refund!!).


Bupa.



Health Insurance isn't exactly an arm and a leg, nowadays it's actually really cheap, so there is no reason people can't afford it. And I don't believe in this, well to a small degree I do (which'll make me sounds snobbish), but have you ever heard of Social Cleansing, where basically the elite survive and the poorest of the poor, who contribute nothing to society don't?

Wait wait wait! Health insurance is cheap!??! You just said "And Health Care is very expensive" a few posts ago? Are you sure you are ok? Maybe the evil NHS people kidnapped you in your sleep and messed up your thoughts? We have already established that you are unable to form your own opinions, now contradictions too? Wow.
I have already explained that an average British family cannot afford private health care and education for their kids at the same time so no need to answer the latter part of your post.
And Social Cleansing? Well technically, you will be poor in comparison to Bill Gates, so I guess you will be dead in the next batch of "social cleansing" then?


America's health care system had amazing health care? And America was the world's most powerful country, the biggest MEDC. So believe it or not you don't need FREE health care to be an MEDC. And the government should just let them die, no offence, if they contribute nothing to the country themselves. It's people's kindness that saves other people. And in Japan, you have to pay for certain things in their health care. And they have the best in the world!?

*offense. Seriously, go ask for a refund on the private education.


With no NHS, there is no need for as high tax as we have now? So people would have money still... And yes we are in a recession so why should a government be wasting billions on the the NHS.

And I would prefer them to check my records, and my family if they find out they can request that the NHS stop their treatment and move me to a Private Hospital, which they would certainly do.

He is having a heart attack. QUICK GET ME HIS FILE BEFORE I TOUCH HIM! Whats your name? HE ISNT ANSWERING. TAKE A PHOTO OF HIM AND opss he is dead. Oh well.

-Middle of a major surgery-
He wants his BUPA. Stop the surgery. Leave him how he is. Let BUPA come and take him. If he dies then oh well.



I think you and Undertaker should agree to disagree because it is starting to become a little personal. I love Undertakers political views and really hope he is going to try for a career in politics and whether you agree with his views or not we need a very broad spectrum of people who ask the difficult questions as our MP's will not tell you anything unless you ask and then lie.

I actually hope he doesn't. He just shoots down peoples opinions if they are different to his. He refuses to even consider it. We don't need MP's with that kind of an attitude.


Well when I do provide various polls and sources on your request, you just rubbish them anyway. Its lose lose for me.

So do you (with lame excuses) when we provide them.



Actually I wouldn't go to an NHS Hospital, I'll be going to my nearest private Hospital if it was something like that it'll have to be one with an A&E Unit, which the nearest to me is further than my Private Hospital.
Well I guess a different country then ...
No private A&E in U.K.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I actually hope he doesn't. He just shoots down peoples opinions if they are different to his. He refuses to even consider it. We don't need MP's with that kind of an attitude.We already have MPs with that attitude, the only difference would be that i'm for the majority whereas they are always pandering to the minority.


So do you (with lame excuses) when we provide them.You have never provided any sources to me from memory in any debate, usually because when I say something for instance like 'Most British people want to leave the EU' and provide numerous polls for you on your request, you just steam roll right past them. Although you and the MPs I suppose share that same quality, the quality to be totally ignorant even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

As for the private vs national its only a matter of time to those who are totally against private healthcare because we are (fact) heading for a demographic crisis that the NHS will not be able to survive. You are not denied health in the perfect system of private because the insurance would be compulsory for everyone to buy and it would also be illegal for the insurance companies to; a) raise the prices above a set price and b) turn anyone away.

[marriott0.01]

* Birth control, conception, sexual problems and sex changes - Bupa covers this through Abortion. As my nearest private Hospital offers it

[Seatherny]

We already have MPs with that attitude, the only difference would be that i'm for the majority whereas they are always pandering to the minority.

You have never provided any sources to me from memory in any debate, usually because when I say something for instance like 'Most British people want to leave the EU' and provide numerous polls for you on your request, you just steam roll right past them. Although you and the MPs I suppose share that same quality, the quality to be totally ignorant even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

As for the private vs national its only a matter of time to those who are totally against private healthcare because we are (fact) heading for a demographic crisis that the NHS will not be able to survive. You are not denied health in the perfect system of private because the insurance would be compulsory for everyone to buy and it would also be illegal for the insurance companies to; a) raise the prices above a set price and b) turn anyone away.

You aren't for the majority. The majority of the forum disagrees with you. Another reason why you shouldn't be MP as you think people agree with you when they really don't.

Are you sure I have not provided any sources in any debates? Please reconsider that statement, I don't want to embarrass you by proving you wrong.

Private health care would be compulsory for everyone to buy? Well just make it the normal tax and have the NHS ...

[marriott0.01]

You aren't for the majority. The majority of the forum disagrees with you. Another reason why you shouldn't be MP as you think people agree with you when they really don't.

Are you sure I have not provided any sources in any debates? Please reconsider that statement, I don't want to embarrass you by proving you wrong.

Private health care would be compulsory for everyone to buy? Well just make it the normal tax and have the NHS ...

Actually I oppose the last thing, and so do republicans. People should have a choice whether or not they want to have health care. Hence why it's being taken to courts, it may not be legal to force people to get health insurance.

[Seatherny]

- Bupa covers this through Abortion. As my nearest private Hospital offers it

Well it states on BUPA's website that they don't. You have already demonstrated that you know very little about the Health care thats on offer by the NHS and BUPA.




Actually I oppose the last thing, and so do republicans. People should have a choice whether or not they want to have health care. Hence why it's being taken to courts, it may not be legal to force people to get health insurance.

Its better to have health care than have no health care and get a huge bill if you get ill.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You aren't for the majority. The majority of the forum disagrees with you. Another reason why you shouldn't be MP as you think people agree with you when they really don't.

Are you sure I have not provided any sources in any debates? Please reconsider that statement, I don't want to embarrass you by proving you wrong.

Private health care would be compulsory for everyone to buy? Well just make it the normal tax and have the NHS ...

I am, various polls back that up and I think the only things I am in the minority for are devolution and the Trident renewal although i'm unsure exact figures on them at this time (2010). The 'majority' you mean by Rosie, yourself, alex and Tash who are the left wingers then yes you are right that I am the minority when it comes to you all although i'm quite proud of the fact that i'm on the majority side in most issues when it comes to the EU, death penalty, crime and punishment and taxation. I daresay there are more.

Indeed it would be compulsory, the difference being that when you have a private industry it stays efficent to make money. The NHS does not have to do that and the main issue being that the NHS is under the thumb of the government and governments cannot run anything - that is solid fact. Take a look at pre-80s business and industry and it was all making a loss/was not efficent, privatisation made sure that the broken, useless parts were severed and that the companies did not have to be bailed out by the taxpayer year by year because of gross overspending.

[marriott0.01]

Well it states on BUPA's website that they don't. You have already demonstrated that you know very little about the Health care thats on offer by the NHS and BUPA.

and as per your other comment that "It's spelt offence in british english x American English it's offense"

Well, you came here when you were 3 right? So you were probably taught British English. If you love America so much then go back there. I am sure your money might help their economy.



Its better to have health care than have no health care and get a huge bill if you get ill.

http://www.spirehealthcare.com/ - That's the private hospital company I use with my BUPA insurance. They offer it.

And what if people don't want health care because they hardly use it, surely they should have the choice.

Actually you spelt it offense ;)



Originally Posted by marriott0.02
America's health care system had amazing health care? And America was the world's most powerful country, the biggest MEDC. So believe it or not you don't need FREE health care to be an MEDC. And the government should just let them die, no offence, if they contribute nothing to the country themselves. It's people's kindness that saves other people. And in Japan, you have to pay for certain things in their health care. And they have the best in the world!?
*offense. Seriously, go ask for a refund on the private education.

[xxMATTGxx]

Actually I oppose the last thing, and so do republicans. People should have a choice whether or not they want to have health care. Hence why it's being taken to courts, it may not be legal to force people to get health insurance.

Sorry to say, they may take it to court but the chances of anything happening is quite slim which has been expressed by other Amercians who do not like the idea of this bill.

[Seatherny]

I am, various polls back that up and I think the only things I am in the minority for are devolution and the Trident renewal although i'm unsure exact figures on them at this time (2010). The 'majority' you mean by Rosie, yourself, alex and Tash who are the left wingers then yes you are right that I am the minority when it comes to you all although i'm quite proud of the fact that i'm on the majority side in most issues when it comes to the EU, death penalty, crime and punishment and taxation. I daresay there are more.

Indeed it would be compulsory, the difference being that when you have a private industry it stays efficent to make money. The NHS does not have to do that and the main issue being that the NHS is under the thumb of the government and governments cannot run anything - that is solid fact. Take a look at pre-80s business and industry and it was all making a loss/was not efficent, privatisation made sure that the broken, useless parts were severed and that the companies did not have to be bailed out by the taxpayer year by year because of gross overspending.

Actually, look at any debate. There are more members opposing you rather than supporting you. What you support is a party who say what the hell they want because they know for a fact that they will never be in power. If people supported UKIP and their views, they would be in power after the next General Election. Thats not going to happen and we all know it. That only means you are in the minority and I am in the majority in comparison to you.


http://www.spirehealthcare.com/ - That's the private hospital company I use with my BUPA insurance. They offer it.

And what if people don't want health care because they hardly use it, surely they should have the choice.

Actually you spelt it offense ;)

I realised I made a mistake in my last post hence I removed it.

[marriott0.01]

Sorry to say, they may take it to court but the chances of anything happening is quite slim which has been expressed by other Amercians who do not like the idea of this bill.

Less than 50% of americans approve of the bill, surely for a country as democratic as America give the people a choice. I'm not the fascist, Obama is.

[xxMATTGxx]

Less than 50% of americans approve of the bill, surely for a country as democratic as America give the people a choice. I'm not the fascist, Obama is.

Surely they could just point it to commerce clause? The Government can and will do everything and anything it sees fit.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Actually, look at any debate. There are more members opposing you rather than supporting you. What you support is a party who say what the hell they want because they know for a fact that they will never be in power. If people supported UKIP and their views, they would be in power after the next General Election. Thats not going to happen and we all know it. That only means you are in the minority and I am in the majority in comparison to you.

The ones who are most vocal on these forums are the left wingers such as yourself who cannot seem to accept the fact that my opinions are mostly the opinions of the vast majority of the British people (as backed up various times by poll after poll). I see you havent commented at all on what I said about the European Union, death penalty, taxation or anything else because I am the majority and you are the minority. As for the voting system, in summer 2009 we had a PR election which is the fairest voting system around; the Conservatives (right wing) came first and UKIP came second beating both the left wing Labour Party and Liberal Democrats.

Would you also care to reply to my point on privatisation?

[marriott0.01]

Surely they could just point it to commerce clause? The Government can and will do everything and anything it sees fit.

It seems pointless tbh, because if less than 50% of America approve of the Bill and it doesn't get stopped by the courts, next elections Republicans will be voted in and they'll repeal the bill. A lot of effort that could be used on winning the war.

[Seatherny]

Less than 50% of americans approve of the bill, surely for a country as democratic as America give the people a choice. I'm not the fascist, Obama is.

less than 50%? Wheres the source?

[marriott0.01]

less than 50%? Wheres the source?

Polls done by independent organisations, posted on FoxNews and CNN.

[-:Undertaker:-]

less than 50%? Wheres the source?

One example would be here; http://blogs.reuters.com/ask/2010/03/22/poll-do-you-agree-with-the-healthcare-reform-vote/

Reuters, a unbiased site. 65% against the decision to pass the bill and 34% in support of the decision to pass the bill, with 1% unsure.

[Seatherny]

The ones who are most vocal on these forums are the left wingers such as yourself who cannot seem to accept the fact that my opinions are mostly the opinions of the vast majority of the British people (as backed up various times by poll after poll). I see you havent commented at all on what I said about the European Union, death penalty, taxation or anything else because I am the majority and you are the minority. As for the voting system, in summer 2009 we had a PR election which is the fairest voting system around; the Conservatives (right wing) came first and UKIP came second beating both the left wing Labour Party and Liberal Democrats.

Would you also care to reply to my point on privatisation?

I commented on death penalty? Please, gets your eyes checked out. First you say I don't post sources, not you said I didn't comment on death penalty? The only thing which I haven't commented on yet is that link. I will comment on that when I get time as it involves re-reading the thread - which is quite long.

Everyone should get NHS whenever they need it. Its not about "I didn't need the doctors last year so I won't this year either, so forget health insurance." You can get ill any time. Everyone should be able to get treatment and not worry about the costs. The stress of costs will only make the person worse.

[marriott0.01]

I commented on death penalty? Please, gets your eyes checked out. First you say I don't post sources, not you said I didn't comment on death penalty? The only thing which I haven't commented on yet is that link. I will comment on that when I get time as it involves re-reading the thread - which is quite long.

Everyone should get NHS whenever they need it. Its not about "I didn't need the doctors last year so I won't this year either, so forget health insurance." You can get ill any time. Everyone should be able to get treatment and not worry about the costs. The stress of costs will only make the person worse.

You don't need health insurance if you don't use it? You would only have to pay the price of that one time treatment.

[Seatherny]

You don't need health insurance if you don't use it? You would only have to pay the price of that one time treatment.

And what if that treatment makes you bankrupt?

[marriott0.01]

And what if that treatment makes you bankrupt?

How poor do you have to be? :)

[Seatherny]

How poor do you have to be? :)

Not all treatments are cheap. Some are very expensive. You have obviously been rich all your life so your thought process are very narrow when it comes to money.

A lot of the rich people atm and the cleverest come from poor families, so in your world, Sir Richard Branson and Lord Alan Sugar would be dead.

[marriott0.01]

Not all treatments are cheap. Some are very expensive. You have obviously been rich all your life so your thought process are very narrow when it comes to money.

A lot of the rich people atm and the cleverest come from poor families, so in your world, Sir Richard Branson and Lord Alan Sugar would be dead.

£1,000 is most likely the most your going to spend on any one treatment, and most people can afford that.

[Wig44.]

How poor do you have to be? :)
....
Do you have any clue how expensive treatments are? A simple blood test can be too expensive for a lot of people right now. Get off your high horse, you have no right to be on it as I'm certain you're just a spoilt middle class whiner who has been totally disconnected from the real world by over protective parents. Your lack of knowledge on most of the topics discussed here immediately relinquishes any entitlement to an opinion as far as I'm concerned but since I can't physically stop you from posting I guess it's a moot point.

[Monopoly]

£1,000 is most likely the most your going to spend on any one treatment, and most people can afford that.

I assume you're just trolling now...

[xxMATTGxx]

£1,000 is most likely the most your going to spend on any one treatment, and most people can afford that.

What options do you have to pay for that? Because I know many people who are not able to find £1,000 just like that without risking not paying any bills and so on. Plus,. I hardly doubt that is the maximum amount.

[Wig44.]

£1,000 is most likely the most your going to spend on any one treatment, and most people can afford that.

Wrong and wrong. Please stop posting about things you have very little knowledge of.

[Cheryl]

well these are some rough costs

1. Intestine Transplant
Cost: $1,121,800
A transplant of the intestine is done to replace dead intestinal tissue with live tissue from a donor, often because of disease or the presence of a tumor. Because intestinal disease is sometimes accompanied by liver failure, intestine transplants can be done in conjunction with a liver transplant, adding more than $180,000 to the bill.
2. Heart Transplant
Cost: $787,700
Heart transplants are among the most complicated of procedures, carrying great risk. Waiting lists are long, and preparation for the surgery is lengthy and expensive. Add to this the expensive procurement of the organ, and you can see why the cost is so great.
3. Bone Marrow Transplant
Cost: $676,800 Allogeneic ($300,400 for Autologous)
Bone marrow transplants can be done with a donor's marrow (allogeneic) or your own bone marrow (autologous), costing much less. Finding a donor for a bone marrow transplant is difficult, and complications after the procedure are very common. Add to this the risky nature of the procedure, the lengthy prep time in the hospital as well as an extensive recovery period, and you have a cocktail for a hefty medical bill.
4. Lung Transplant
Cost: $657,800 double ($450,400 for single)
When other therapies don't work, lung transplants are a last resort for patients of lung disease like emphysema and cystic fibrosis. As with other transplant surgeries, wait lists are long and cost is high because of the lengthy hospital stay.
5. Liver Transplant
Cost: $523,400
As with a heart transplant, liver transplants are high risk and high cost, with an accompanying waiting list. Criteria are high, which means administrative and prep procedure costs add to the bottom line.
6. Open Heart Surgery
Cost: $324,000
With heart disease as the leading cause of death in the U.S. at 26%, open heart surgery is a more common procedure than may be expected. Part of the high cost of open heart surgery is because it's often an urgent medical procedure that is usually followed by complications. Longer care and follow-up needed after surgery add to the price tag.
7. Pancreas Transplant
Cost: $275,500
Transplants of the pancreas are usually needed when a patient has type 1 diabetes or renal failure. It is often done in tandem with a kidney transplant, almost doubling the cost of the surgeries at $439,000.
8. Kidney Transplant
Cost: $259,000
Kidney transplants, like the other transplants on this list, are expensive due to the risk, recovery and prep expense. The one difference is that with kidney transplants, the old kidney isn't removed because it's been shown it reduces risk that way; surgeons find a different blood supply to attach the new kidney to.
9. Tracheotomy
Cost: $205,000
A tracheotomy involves making an incision in the neck to allow the patient to breathe, either permanently or temporarily. Since this is often an emergency room procedure, costs are high. After care is extensive, adding to the bill.
10. Destruction of Lesion of Retina
Cost: $153,000
When lesions on a retina (this is part of the eye), also called retinoblastoma, are removed, the risks are great as with the above-mentioned procedures. This procedure is pricey because of the precision skills required for this procedure, the lengthy recovery and follow-up.

http://financialedge.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0310/Top-10-Most-Expensive-Medical-Procedures.aspx (http://www.writers-free-reference.com/14medical.htm)

[marriott0.01]

What options do you have to pay for that? Because I know many people who are not able to find £1,000 just like that without risking not paying any bills and so on. Plus,. I hardly doubt that is the maximum amount.

I didn't say maximum I said most likely ;) And surely hospitals will let you pay with Credit Cards...

To the above post, they cost no where near that much.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I commented on death penalty? Please, gets your eyes checked out. First you say I don't post sources, not you said I didn't comment on death penalty? The only thing which I haven't commented on yet is that link. I will comment on that when I get time as it involves re-reading the thread - which is quite long.

Everyone should get NHS whenever they need it. Its not about "I didn't need the doctors last year so I won't this year either, so forget health insurance." You can get ill any time. Everyone should be able to get treatment and not worry about the costs. The stress of costs will only make the person worse.

Point 1: I never said you commented on the death penalty, I said how you have not had anything to say back to me because you claim i'm the minority yet most of my opinions (as the examples listed) are in the majority. You wont comment though, I once had to ask you a question 12 times and again in another thread you pleged to send the reply via PM, you simply refused to answer the question which was in a BNP thread.

Point 2: If the insurance was compulsory (as I suggest) then you would not have that problem.

[Alkaz]

£1,000 is most likely the most your going to spend on any one treatment, and most people can afford that.
I think I know two people who would be able to pay £1000 just like that with no qualms and that is my Nan who has literally no costs in her life apart from food and my dad's friend who just so happens to be a millionaire. Almost everyone else I know would have to either scrimp around to get that money together without it effecting them with debts or anything similarly along those kind of lines or simply not be able to pay it as most 'normal' people don't have thousands of pounds laying around the place. So maybe for the minority of people who could happily pay that the NHS offers a great service to those of us who can't actually afford a private health care service, like some.

[Cheryl]

I didn't say maximum I said most likely ;) And surely hospitals will let you pay with Credit Cards...

To the above post, they cost no where near that much.
How much you betting??

[Seatherny]

Really cba to read lmao thanks for the reply though, and I respect your views, I just have different views :D

That's what you said about my reply to all your posts. You are just a rude person.


£1,000 is most likely the most your going to spend on any one treatment, and most people can afford that.

Most people can afford it? Yeah errr you don't like on Earth.


I didn't say maximum I said most likely ;) And surely hospitals will let you pay with Credit Cards...

To the above post, they cost no where near that much.

You can pay with credit cards but its hard if you cant afford it. And why don't you tell us with credible sources the cost of a heart transplant?


Point 1: I never said you commented on the death penalty, I said how you have not had anything to say back to me because you claim i'm the minority yet most of my opinions (as the examples listed) are in the majority. You wont comment though, I once had to ask you a question 12 times and again in another thread you pleged to send the reply via PM, you simply refused to answer the question which was in a BNP thread.

Point 2: If the insurance was compulsory (as I suggest) then you would not have that problem.

You clearly said "I see you havent commented at all on what I said about the European Union, death penalty..."

If you had good eyesight, you will realise that I did comment. I also said that I won't bother replying as you were just repeating yourself over and over and over -falls sleep-

[Jordy]

Haha this is a good show Marriott, when are you next appearing on Live at the Apollo?

Yeah let's just use credit cards if we can't afford to pay for something...

You have no idea what you are on about, you think there is private A&Es and you can just demand to be sent to a private hospital, you assume the NHS is crap because of stories you've heard in a newspaper, you think most things in private hospitals only cost £1000, and you think £1000 is a small amount of money for most people. The average wage in the UK is around £25k, so £1000 is loosely 2 weeks wages for most people in the UK.

Your only comeback to Saurav's monster of a post was, "actually my hospital does abortions". What about the other 20 odd things it doesn't do?

[Hushie]

£1,000 is most likely the most your going to spend on any one treatment, and most people can afford that.

Oh dear.... you have a private education as well?


- Bupa covers this through Abortion. As my nearest private Hospital offers it

Bupa covers gender reassignment by offering abortion?

[Tash.]

£1,000 is most likely the most your going to spend on any one treatment, and most people can afford that.

Well i've just read this thread and I feel like I now have the knowledge to say that you are not living on this earth. I won't bother to comment on anything previous to this post as others have done that brilliantly.

However, this post has just angered me. £1000.. right, so even if this was the maximum you are likely to have to pay, where on earth are you getting the idea that people have £1000 laying around to use for such things? I don't know how much you 'earn' (and I use that term loosely because I doubt you work so you are getting looked after by your parents) but £1000 is more than I earn in any single month. So if I was ill and had to pay £1000 to get it sorted, i'd have absolutely nothing to live on for an entire month. My parents do not earn more than that a month either, so where exactly do you propose I find that money? I don't have a credit card, I do not intend to have one. My parents do not have credit cards and I have no relatives that could afford to lend me the money. In your mind, despite the fact that I work, my parents work and I do not claim any benefits, I am going to be in pain/discomfort.

Something about my example does not sound right does it? And that is not made up, that is a genuine example from my life. The NHS has its faults but seriously, I would rather it be there as a choice for those who really cannot afford private healthcare and need the money they earn to feed themselves and pay for a roof over their heads. You need to grow up.

[Seatherny]

- Bupa covers this through Abortion. As my nearest private Hospital offers it

Actually they don't.


Bupa Heartbeat doesn’t routinely cover the following conditions and treatments. Full details can be found in the membership guide.

So err you will have to pay extra money to your private doctors (who also work for the NHS ... so err HA I get the same treatment as you but for free) as BUPA don't cover it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You clearly said "I see you havent commented at all on what I said about the European Union, death penalty..."

If you had good eyesight, you will realise that I did comment. I also said that I won't bother replying as you were just repeating yourself over and over and over -falls sleep-

-Hand over face-

I meant quite clearly that you hadn't replied to the fact that I am on the majority side when it comes to the death penalty.


Oh dear.... you have a private education as well?

Bupa covers gender reassignment by offering abortion?

The NHS should not cover gender reassignment in other words, legal body multilation.

[Hushie]

The NHS should not cover gender reassignment in other words, legal body multilation.

That's another argument really, depends on the psychological effects on an individual.

[HotelUser]

The NHS should not cover gender reassignment in other words, legal body multilation.

Gender reassignment, because of a legitimate phycological disorder (gender identity disorder) is certainly not body multination. I have absolutely no quarrels with my government paying for gender reassignment so long as it's professionally diagnosed, and I do believe there are stern prerequisites in order to qualify for this surgery.

[Alkaz]

I agree with David, I have a friend who actually has GID. If that is a 'real' disorder then why shouldn't that be treated as well as all others?

[Technologic]

I'm gonna butt in here and say my dad is a senior doctor at both an NHS hospital and private hospital. His work at the private hospital comprises mainly of minor surgeries and plastic surgeries whereas his main work at an NHS hospital involves highly complex surgeries requiring dozens of doctors working a shift on what can last up to 12 hours, I know for a fact that these complex surgeries cost in excess of £80,000 privately and I for one would gladly pay a slightly higher tax to allow a pensioner or a university student to have this for free than force them to pay....

Also the whole thing about A&E at private hospitals is bull, the most they have is a minor accident clinic where you can go if you break a finger or cut yourself.

[Swearwolf]

if you can afford private and its what you want then thats fine but the NHS is fine. as far as your attitude is concerned mariot or w.e your name is i hope you go bankrupt and then we'll see

[Recursion]

Oh dear.... you have a private education as well?

Funny thing is it has actually been proven that state schools manage to get better results than most privatly funded schools (surprise surprise.. :rolleyes:)

Now Marriot, get off your god damn high horse and get out of our country if you don't agree with our laws or services, you knew what it was like far before you or your parents came over here. You obviously know **** all about the subject and need to gather some real evidence before posting. £1000 is a lot to some people, let alone the 100s of thousands some treatments can cost.

*Removed*

Edited by Catzsy(Forum Moderator): Please do not be rude to others.

[Seatherny]

£55 for a 15 minute appointment with BUPA. Errr yeah, not cheap.

[Recursion]

£55 for a 15 minute appointment with BUPA. Errr yeah, not cheap.

3.6p a second, now THAT is burning money!

[Seatherny]

If you are going to infract me then don't send me a PM.

Infraction PM's are sent automatically.


The NHS is reeked with problems I would never go with them. You get the lowest quality care, because your just another number and statistic in the NHS, whereas private they need your business so they care for you. Which is why I prefer it. Why not put money towards plans to regenerate other things like Internet speeds for one, or trains etc.. Money is needed there more than a healthcare system which fails :D

Actually, you would have already paid BUPA. They would therefore try and get you out of the hospital as fast as possible to save money. However for NHS, they can try and make you better as they don't have to worry about costs, just making the patient better.

[GommeInc]

I'm gonna butt in here and say my dad is a senior doctor at both an NHS hospital and private hospital. His work at the private hospital comprises mainly of minor surgeries and plastic surgeries whereas his main work at an NHS hospital involves highly complex surgeries requiring dozens of doctors working a shift on what can last up to 12 hours, I know for a fact that these complex surgeries cost in excess of £80,000 privately and I for one would gladly pay a slightly higher tax to allow a pensioner or a university student to have this for free than force them to pay....

Also the whole thing about A&E at private hospitals is bull, the most they have is a minor accident clinic where you can go if you break a finger or cut yourself.
Thank God, someone who knows what they are talking about. Private Hospitals do not do major operations, it's incredibly rare to find a private hospital/clinic that can do them. Most private hospitals ship patients off to NHS hospitals and specialise in after care. Nice to know someone has some inside information to back this up as well.

[Grig]

More money for actual consumers to spend, but less for the US Government to spend on bailing out crippled companies - RECESSION WORSENS WOO!

You talk about America here. Well for one thing, America's new healthcare bill is much worse off, it has so many holes in it. You are talking about giving everyone in the country healthcare for similair rates, regardles if they are citizens or not. They are also saying that they need to pay a certain percentage of their income for that healthcare. But how would that fair on the richer folk, like Bill Gates when he has a sum for hundreds of millions just for healthcare on people who aren't even citizens, there needs to be a ceiling for this. All in all, this new proposal is flawed on all sides. Why do citizens have to suffer?

The healthcare proposal in the US is just so different from every single other country. I am actually suprised it passed with this amount of flaws in it and that is exact why the opposition Republicans are angry about it, already going as far as to branding it 'Socialist'. Everyone deserves some form of healthcare in an MEDC, but this certainly is not the plan to go by.

[,Lexiilu]

I havent posted here yet :O
I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE THIS HEALTH CARE BILL. our economy is already **** and this makes it worse. middle class people are going to have to pay for health care for those idiots who do drugs and make stupid decisions. people (like my mom for example) already have had to make huge cuts to our bills and it just makes it worse. plus now if you dont want it you have to pay a fine on top of paying for your own medical care?? like srsly if I didn't have medical care and I chopped my finger off or something its my fault...I'm already in pain, PLUS I have to pay my own bills, PLUS PLUS I have to pay their stupid fine every year? :S ye cause that makes a lot of sense. it's not my fault if someone gets fired and doesn't have a savings account, or quits their job cause they think they're gonna get a job somewhere else or something and they dont, or they do drugs, or have a baby they dont want, etc. ALSO this is ridic cause the way its written, it says that the bill wont be able to be removed or something stupid like that ;l i'm not paying for o-bomb-a's stupid mistakes when I turn 18. I'll srsly move to like canada or someplace ;l

[DrLacero]

*Jumps in*

Most countries with public health care pay less for it than Americans do for Private at the moment. The 1992 report of the State Health Care Access Commission showed that a publicly financed and publicly administered system would have saved Connecticut 2 billion dollars in 1999.

http://cthealth.server101.com/universal_healthcare_is_cheaper.htm

And ranked better;

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

[RedStratocas]

Just side with Republicans all the time, and people should help themselves, not get the taxpayers to pay for everything especially for an economy in the toilet.

the problem with this logic is that uninsured people who end up getting sick/injured cost taxpayers far more than actually insuring them instead, thus we SAVE money by insuring people.

essentially, what this health care bill does is extend medicare (which has been around for decades, and is completely undisputed) to poor people instead of just for old people who dont work. how this can possibly be perceived as "socialist" is beyond me.


*Jumps in*

Most countries with public health care pay less for it than Americans do for Private at the moment. The 1992 report of the State Health Care Access Commission showed that a publicly financed and publicly administered system would have saved Connecticut 2 billion dollars in 1999.

http://cthealth.server101.com/universal_healthcare_is_cheaper.htm

And ranked better;

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

yeah im from connecticut, i remember seeing this. whats funny is that the health care bill is the same as everything in the state-run massachussettes health care system, which has proven to be cost-effective.

[iAdam]

The NHS is great, little slow but it's amazing tbh, health care when we need it and very little of tax goes towards it tbh.

Don't know why Americans are so against it?

[HotelUser]

The NHS is great, little slow but it's amazing tbh, health care when we need it and very little of tax goes towards it tbh.

Don't know why Americans are so against it?

I don't either to be completely honest. I mean, wouldn't you want to help your fellow Americans? Tax going towards health care is a tax I am happy to pay.

[GommeInc]

I don't either to be completely honest. I mean, wouldn't you want to help your fellow Americans? Tax going towards health care is a tax I am happy to pay.

Following on from what you said, about Americans helping fellow Americans... Is this not what they believe in? It's why they loved Susan Boyle, because she amounted to something and they were happy for her. They clump together when trying to help each other realise their dreams, but they sure like pushing themselves apart when it comes to certain rights. I don't know much about America, but from this I can only assume they're not the most charitable :P

[leah]

I know a girl who moved to america, while i'm not sure about american legislation or their health system she seems very happy that this has passed and this is from someone living in the country!

[HotelUser]

Following on from what you said, about Americans helping fellow Americans... Is this not what they believe in? It's why they loved Susan Boyle, because she amounted to something and they were happy for her. They clump together when trying to help each other realise their dreams, but they sure like pushing themselves apart when it comes to certain rights. I don't know much about America, but from this I can only assume they're not the most charitable :P

Don't have a bias against all Americans. There are nice and rude people in America just like there are nice and rude people in Canada and the UK.

[Catzsy]

Don't have a bias against all Americans. There are nice and rude people in America just like there are nice and rude people in Canada and the UK.

Very much agreed. My late father was American. Pretty much bought up in both cultures.

[GommeInc]

Don't have a bias against all Americans. There are nice and rude people in America just like there are nice and rude people in Canada and the UK.

I'm not judging all of them, it's just odd that the general view Americans have is this whole American dream ideology where they assist one another when it comes to dreams, but anything money related seems to go against quite alot of them. Money is something they value, and from the response of this Health Form Bill, they value it more than other people.

[RedStratocas]

I'm not judging all of them, it's just odd that the general view Americans have is this whole American dream ideology where they assist one another when it comes to dreams, but anything money related seems to go against quite alot of them. Money is something they value, and from the response of this Health Form Bill, they value it more than other people.

get the cash money, dollah dollah bill ya'll.

i dont think it's really having to pay more taxes that people dont like, its this idea of socialism that conservative media has been stuffing down peoples' throats. when republicans were in power a couple of years ago they did whatever the hell they wanted, whether it was congress or (especially) the executive branch, and democrats were pansies and didnt do anything. but now that theyre out of power and democrats are in, conservatives are pulling everything they have in the book to stop normal, majority rules voting on very basic legislation. they're basically all 5 year olds. they're saying that the american people dont want health care reform, even though that was what obama campaigned for during the election, and he won. so fox news has infiltrated the minds of every ignorant redneck who needs a form of authority to be angry at, lying to them that extending government health care by 30% to cover low income families as well as retirees = socialism. whats sad is that a lot of people who have been misled into fighting health care are the ones who would benifit from it.

[Wig44.]

Hah! Americans helping Americans, yes this image is portrayed by the media and may be true on a lower level but collectively Americans don't give a **** about one another. Money talks, y'all.

[Favourtism]

The NHS is reeked with problems I would never go with them. You get the lowest quality care, because your just another number and statistic in the NHS, whereas private they need your business so they care for you. Which is why I prefer it. Why not put money towards plans to regenerate other things like Internet speeds for one, or trains etc.. Money is needed there more than a healthcare system which fails :D

"Prompt, high-quality treatment is a priority for any patient and now Spire Healthcare can offer NHS patients within England and Northern Ireland more choice. Spire Healthcare deliver services on behalf of the NHS – so you can now receive your medical treatment in one of our hospitals.
‘Choose and Book’ is an NHS scheme that allows patients in England and Northern Ireland to choose the hospital for their treatment, and book an appointment on a date and time that suits them. For each hospital a specific list of treatments is covered by the scheme."
source: http://www.spirehealthcare.com/Patient-Information/NHS-Patients/

The '******' NHS covers your '******' hospital/health care.

[Favourtism]

I havent posted here yet :O
I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE THIS HEALTH CARE BILL. our economy is already **** and this makes it worse. middle class people are going to have to pay for health care for those idiots who do drugs and make stupid decisions. people (like my mom for example) already have had to make huge cuts to our bills and it just makes it worse. plus now if you dont want it you have to pay a fine on top of paying for your own medical care?? like srsly if I didn't have medical care and I chopped my finger off or something its my fault...I'm already in pain, PLUS I have to pay my own bills, PLUS PLUS I have to pay their stupid fine every year? :S ye cause that makes a lot of sense. it's not my fault if someone gets fired and doesn't have a savings account, or quits their job cause they think they're gonna get a job somewhere else or something and they dont, or they do drugs, or have a baby they dont want, etc. ALSO this is ridic cause the way its written, it says that the bill wont be able to be removed or something stupid like that ;l i'm not paying for o-bomb-a's stupid mistakes when I turn 18. I'll srsly move to like canada or someplace ;l

First, you're not middle/higher class, I'd say you were lower-middle if you were on about struggling to keep your flat ages ago. You're totally hypocritical. You say it's helping druggies, what if you got knocked over tomorrow and needed multi-million dollar surgery or something extremely expensive (e.g. I forget the name as I'm no doctor, but where you have a hole in your neck to enable you to breath is 200k). Would it be 'tough ****' on you as well off people cannot spare a few extra dollars towards the state?