10.6 MILLION adults of working age are unemployed in the United Kingdom

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/163603


MORE than 10 million people of working age in Britain do not have a job, shocking official figures revealed last night.

http://images.dailyexpress.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/285x214/163603_1.jpg




A total of 2.45 million are classed as jobseekers, while a record-breaking 8.16 million are out of work and not looking for paid employment. It means more than one in four adults in the UK below the state ­retirement age are not working. And it is the private sector which has borne the brunt of the cataclysmic collapse in the jobs market while the public sector has boomed at taxpayers’ expense. Around 1,440 private sector workers lost their jobs every day last year while the number of State employees rose by 126 a day.

The disturbing extent of the epidemic of worklessness was disclosed in monthly job market figures from the Office for National Statistics yesterday. And concern was growing last night that a dwindling number of taxpayers in full-time employment are being squeezed to bankroll the spiralling benefits bills. Ministers seized on a 32,300 drop in the number of jobseekers compared with last month as a sign that Government measures to tackle the economic crisis are taking effect. But critics argued the record levels of “economic inactivity” exposed the uncomfortable truth behind Downing Street’s attempts to manipulate the employment figures. The Tories said the figures confirmed that millions have simply given up even trying to find a job and are resigned to being out of work for the rest of their lives.Now to be fair, some of these will be disabled/retired early but even that will not be something anywhere near this figure. Imagine now, if we cut the state back, halved taxes (including business taxes) what good that would to for the economy - business would be able to expand at rapid rates, people would have to work and would not be taxed to their teeth and we'd probably (as a country) see growth rates easily at over 7% a year I would say. The vast client state that Labour has created over the past 13 years is designed to keep them in power, to keep their own in jobs hence why its expanded at a rapid rate - it is totally unaffordable. We continue to waste billions upon billions every year yet we are being treated like mugs and our taxes just keep rising (thus worsening the economy). The trickle down effect needs to be re-instated in a radical way as it is proven to work.

The cycle we are in now (and it forms with all left wing governments) is; spend more than you have = raise taxes to fund this = more business closes down = more people unemployed = government raises taxes to fund the unemployed = more business closes down and so on. It was the exact same case in the 1970s.

We need cuts easily over one hundred times deeper than them of the Thatcher government.

Thoughts on the economy and taxation?

[Tintinnabulate]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/163603



http://images.dailyexpress.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/285x214/163603_1.jpg



Now to be fair, some of these will be disabled/retired early but even that will not be something anywhere near this figure. Imagine now, if we cut the state back, halved taxes (including business taxes) what good that would to for the economy - business would be able to expand at rapid rates, people would have to work and would not be taxed to their teeth and we'd probably (as a country) see growth rates easily at over 7% a year I would say. The vast client state that Labour has created over the past 13 years is designed to keep them in power, to keep their own in jobs hence why its expanded at a rapid rate - it is totally unaffordable. We continue to waste billions upon billions every year yet we are being treated like mugs and our taxes just keep rising (thus worsening the economy). The trickle down effect needs to be re-instated in a radical way as it is proven to work.

The cycle we are in now (and it forms with all left wing governments) is; spend more than you have = raise taxes to fund this = more business closes down = more people unemployed = government raises taxes to fund the unemployed = more business closes down and so on. It was the exact same case in the 1970s.

We need cuts easily over one hundred times deeper than them of the Thatcher government.

Thoughts on the economy and taxation?

When I read the title, I knew it would be you who posted it.

Small / Medium businesses would still be releuctant to hire more than 1 person even if you got rid of business taxes somehow.

Problem now is, alot of people don't want to go to university / get further education after college. A high proportion of these sit on their lazy ass, drink and smoke. The U.K. is no longer manufacturing alot of things like before. Its importing and selling and providing service jobs. Even those who qualify from university are finding it difficult to get jobs.

So when a business is hiring, they will without a doubt be more likely to hire those with a degree than those without one. So basically the people who left education after school as either they were "too cool" for it or for other reasons find it near impossible to get a job. Its their bloody fault.

You are getting paid to go to college. If you don't go then you are kinda stupid (in most circumstances anyway). Education is a privilege. Problem here is, its free so a lot of the kids don't care about it. Go to countries where you have to pay for education, they value it and stay up night after night to revise etc as there its expensive, and they know, if they don't pass, they won't get a job.

[MrPinkPanther]

You know if it's anti-Labour and bull that it's gonna be Undertaker. So anyway, I'm of working age and yet I do not have a paid job, know why? I'm at College 5 days a week and I Volunteer for the Liberal Democrats at weekends and some week days, neither of which are counted by those stats. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of those people are in education.

Seriously if you want to look educated then stop quoting the express, the Sun and the Daily Mail.

Oh and I'd also like to point out that the 1970s wasn't anything to do with high taxes. I've said this before. It was Trade Unions making outlandish pay claims for their workers (such as a 18% increase in pay) and then going on strike when the Government refused to accept. THATS what cause the Winter of Discontent.

[Catzsy]

What a scaremongering article! There are loads of reasons people do not work including being retired before the state retirement age. Lots of people do that!

Let's balance this up a bit.
http://www.hrmguide.co.uk/jobmarket/unemployment.htm

[-:Undertaker:-]

When I read the title, I knew it would be you who posted it.

Small / Medium businesses would still be releuctant to hire more than 1 person even if you got rid of business taxes somehow.

Problem now is, alot of people don't want to go to university / get further education after college. A high proportion of these sit on their lazy ass, drink and smoke. The U.K. is no longer manufacturing alot of things like before. Its importing and selling and providing service jobs. Even those who qualify from university are finding it difficult to get jobs.

So when a business is hiring, they will without a doubt be more likely to hire those with a degree than those without one. So basically the people who left education after school as either they were "too cool" for it or for other reasons find it near impossible to get a job. Its their bloody fault.

You are getting paid to go to college. If you don't go then you are kinda stupid (in most circumstances anyway). Education is a privilege. Problem here is, its free so a lot of the kids don't care about it. Go to countries where you have to pay for education, they value it and stay up night after night to revise etc as there its expensive, and they know, if they don't pass, they won't get a job.

And when I read the reply, I knew it would be you.

Are you seriously suggesting cash-strapped business doesnt care about taxation - it makes all the difference. You are now suggesting that a lot of people are lazy and that may be the case, and if that is the case then stop the benefits but you would probably then go on to call me unrealistic and just a silly right winger for that suggestion. If you have low taxes both for business and in general it stimulates the economy and that is a fact; I have more money to spend, the business has more money to hire more employees, thus with that formula the business can then expand and hire more and more people and the cycle goes on. At the present time our businesses are struggling while the public sector just keeps growing and growing, it is unaffordable and unrealistic. Why take money away from a business (which results in job losses) and then have to raise taxes again to fund those unemployed and thus the cycle continues. Your party does it everytime you get into office, the best example being the 1970s with Sunny Jim and the militant Unions.

Now, are you seriously suggesting that I am wrong when I say low taxes work?


You know if it's anti-Labour and bull that it's gonna be Undertaker. So anyway, I'm of working age and yet I do not have a paid job, know why? I'm at College 5 days a week and I Volunteer for the Liberal Democrats at weekends and some week days, neither of which are counted by those stats. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of those people are in education.

Seriously if you want to look educated then stop quoting the express, the Sun and the Daily Mail.

Oh and I'd also like to point out that the 1970s wasn't anything to do with high taxes. I've said this before. It was Trade Unions making outlandish pay claims for their workers (such as a 18% increase in pay) and then going on strike when the Government refused to accept. THATS what cause the Winter of Discontent.

The 1970s wasn't just high taxes, no, you are right and I never stated or suggested it was high taxes. You probably dont know it but taxes in the 1970s on the rich hit the regions of 80% meaning they left and did not invest here and that is what is happening again. I know as a Liberal Democrats you'd love nothing better than to tax people for their success, but that is what led to dire unemployment in the 1970s and it is happening once again. So no mate the article isn't bull but if I were you I would seriously look at offical figures and statistics in future before using the word bull because you actually dispute offical figures and polls (kindly waiting for my reply in the other thread on the polls in which you were wrong, myself right).

In regards to the stats posted by Rosie, those only include those on what counts as 'unemployed' - not those who are actually unemployed because it does not properly cover medical and people not seeking work hence why the figure is really 10.6 million. That is why (if you had read the article) you would know that is why I posted it and that is why the Daily Express used it as a news article.

[Tintinnabulate]

And when I read the reply, I knew it would be you. Are you seriously suggesting cash-strapped business doesnt care about taxation - it makes all the difference mate. You are now suggesting that a lot of people are lazy, that may be the case and if that is the case then stop the benefits, but you would probably then go on to call me unrealistic and just a silly right winger. If you have low taxes both for business and in general it stimulates the economy and that is a fact; I have more money to spend, the business has more money to hire more employees, thus with that formula the business can then expand and hire more and more people and the cycle goes on.

Now, are you seriously suggesting that is wrong?

You didnt read my reply did you?
I said businesses, even with lower taxes, might not employ more employees. Why should they if they dont need to? Thatst he way many small/medium businesses will see it as.

Well dont on proving you lack common sense on more subjects and just follow whatever UKIP / DailyMail etc say. Start reading proper newspapers for better knowledge.

[Tash.]

I'd just like to add to this that no matter how much you and the media harp on about it all being Labours fault etc etc, no it isn't. There are a large proportion of people out there that do want to work, but through no fault of their own find themselves without the proper experience. Let me tell you, you can be as intelligent as you want, be as educated as you want, if you don't have the experience you will find it very difficult to find someone to employ you. That is not the governments fault, you can't force businesses to employ someone. The problem is also that this is a vicious cycle, you don't have any experience and you can't get any until someone gives you a chance. The government have tried to help by introducing apprenticeships, one of which I now have, but before that I was going to job interview after job interview with no real prospect of getting it because I had no experience. A monkey could have done the damn job, but nobody would employ me because I had no track record. My intelligence did little to help me in that situation. So you see, things are not always as simple as "the government have failed".

[-:Undertaker:-]

You didnt read my reply did you?
I said businesses, even with lower taxes, might not employ more employees. Why should they if they dont need to? Thatst he way many small/medium businesses will see it as.

Well dont on proving you lack common sense on more subjects and just follow whatever UKIP / DailyMail etc say. Start reading proper newspapers for better knowledge.

Really .. well I must say i'm impressed. Despite business leaders supporting the Conservatives over lower taxes both you and the Labour Party seem to know far better than any business - dream on because you do not. Whether you know it or not (you probably do, but are ignoring it) many small businesses and large businesses had to lay off extra staff with the recession, now if you give them that money back they will be able to employ more people once again. The same goes for taxes in general, if you cut taxes then business will increase thus for example a shopkeeper may then open a new shop and that is how business works.

Now stop telling me what papers to read, you stick to your Daily Mirror/Guardian and i'll stick to my papers thank you very much.


I'd just like to add to this that no matter how much you and the media harp on about it all being Labours fault etc etc, no it isn't. There are a large proportion of people out there that do want to work, but through no fault of their own find themselves without the proper experience. Let me tell you, you can be as intelligent as you want, be as educated as you want, if you don't have the experience you will find it very difficult to find someone to employ you. That is not the governments fault, you can't force businesses to employ someone. The problem is also that this is a vicious cycle, you don't have any experience and you can't get any until someone gives you a chance. The government have tried to help by introducing apprenticeships, one of which I now have, but before that I was going to job interview after job interview with no real prospect of getting it because I had no experience. A monkey could have done the damn job, but nobody would employ me because I had no track record. My intelligence did little to help me in that situation. So you see, things are not always as simple as "the government have failed".

The government are too greedy to realise that when they continously raise taxes they are ensuring that the vicious cycle continues, if you raise taxes it harms businesses and families all over the country thus continuing the cycle of unemployment that you speak of. It is the fault of the government, no country will ever be free from unemployment, granted. However by lowering taxes they can do wonders for struggling families and business - something this government will not do.

[Tintinnabulate]

Really .. well I must say i'm impressed. Despite business leaders supporting the Conservatives over lower taxes both you and the Labour Party seem to know far better than any business - dream on because you do not. Whether you know it or not (you probably do, but are ignoring it) many small businesses and large businesses had to lay off extra staff with the recession, now if you give them that money back they will be able to employ more people once again. The same goes for taxes in general, if you cut taxes then business will increase thus for example a shopkeeper may then open a new shop and that is how business works.

I have to say this, even if this will get me an infraction, but I just have to:

ARE YOU DUMB? Its a serious question, are you? I really hope you aren't but you are acting as if you don't have a brain and just repeat what newspapers and UKIP do.

Why do the majority of the businesses exist? To make a profit. What does lowering tax do? Work it out yourself and lets see if you can answer my above question by telling me why businesses really support conservatives.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I have to say this, even if this will get me an infraction, but I just have to:

ARE YOU DUMB? Its a serious question, are you?

Why do the majority of the businesses exist? To make a profit. What does lowering tax do? Work it out yourself and lets see if you can answer my above question by telling me why businesses really support conservatives.

Well you should be asking yourself that question from what you have just said. Yes it is the job of business to expand and to do good, and what is wrong with that(?) what you dont seem to understand is that when a business is struggling it lays people off and puts the burden of work of fewer people, thus more people are unemployed. To add to this; productivity falls but often it is nessacery for a business to do this because as I have said, they are struggling. If you cut tax on business;-

- they can hire more people to share the burden.
- they have to hire more people as demand is increasing.
- they can open another shop as its profitable to do so.

It is very simple economies yet it seems totally out of your scope, so much infact that you now know better than business leaders.

[Tintinnabulate]

Well you should be asking yourself that question from what you have just said. Yes it is the job of business to expand and to do good, and what is wrong with that(?) what you dont seem to understand is that when a business is struggling it lays people off and puts the burden of work of fewer people, thus more people are unemployed. To add to this; productivity falls but often it is nessacery for a business to do this because as I have said, they are struggling. Well here we have it, Saurav knows better than business leaders!

This is why I said small / medium businesses. Most are happy as they are and don't see the point in opening new shops any time soon. You really dont understand why businesses support Tories ...
I feel sorry for you.

I see you post has been edited so heres the reply to the edit:


If you cut tax on business;-

- they can hire more people to share the burden.
- they have to hire more people as demand is increasing.
- they can open another shop as its profitable to do so.

If demand increased, they will automatically have more money coming in and hopefully money to hire more staff if required to meet the demand.

[-:Undertaker:-]

This is why I said small / medium businesses. Most are happy as they are and don't see the point in opening new shops any time soon. You really dont understand why businesses support Tories ...
I feel sorry for you.

Therefore tax cuts are good for smaller business as it gets people back in employment. Tax cuts are also good for bigger business as it also maximises profits and business also moves here (see 1980s and the influx of big business to the UK because of low taxes which created the City of London/CBD) Business supports the Tories because its good for business interests and profits, which in turn creates jobs which is also a good thing or am I wrong?

[Tintinnabulate]

Therefore tax cuts are good for smaller business as it gets people back in employment. Tax cuts are also good for bigger business as it also maximises profits and business also moves here (see 1980s and the influx of big business to the UK because of low taxes which created the City of London/CBD) Business supports the Tories because its good for business interests and profits, which in turn creates jobs which is also a good thing or am I wrong?

Does your brain lack the ability to process information and understand its meaning? It seems it does.
If a business doesnt require more staff, it will see no reason to hire more. They will see lower taxes only as more profit, nothing else. You really dont seem to understand why businesses support lower taxes.

[alexxxxx]

7% growth a year, you're living in a dreamworld.

but there is a lot to be said for this. we will never have unemployment levels close to 0% in today's world because there is a so-called 'natural' rate of unemployment in any given economy and any move to boost employment further than this rate can only lead to inflation. We need ALOT of government spending for university and college courses in various fields of high-tech industry and other capital investment by the government because frankly the private sector can't and won't take the risk in today's economic climate. We can't lower taxes, only freeze, because of our balooning public debt.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Does your brain lack the ability to process information and understand its meaning? It seems it does.
If a business doesnt require more staff, it will see no reason to hire more. They will see lower taxes only as more profit, nothing else. You really dont seem to understand why businesses support lower taxes.

It is obviously your brain which lacks ability then as I clearly stated about productivity and demand - if a business is under heavy demand then it will hire more people to cope with that demand. The lower taxes help business, why can you not see that simple fact?

[Tintinnabulate]

It is obviously your brain which lacks ability then as I clearly stated about productivity and demand - if a business is under heavy demand then it will hire more people to cope with that demand. The lower taxes help business, why can you not see that simple fact?

Increased demand will bring in more money which in most cases should be able to help the business hire more staff.

[alexxxxx]

Dander, i'm sorry to agree with dan but what you say really doesn't make sense - In theory businesses will employ more people if they make more profit to grow their business, in order to make more profit. As long as there is incentive to grow - they generally try.

[Tintinnabulate]

Dander, i'm sorry to agree with dan but what you say really doesn't make sense - In theory businesses will employ more people if they make more profit to grow their business, in order to make more profit. As long as there is incentive to grow - they generally try.

I understand what you are saying, but that is why I said small / medium. Believe it or not, but the majority of them are happy at the size they are.

[Jack.Lfc]

Thought this was only in Liverpool.

[luce]

Thought this was only in Liverpool.

yeah there has to be more than that in Birmingham alone ;)!

[-:Undertaker:-]

7% growth a year, you're living in a dreamworld.

but there is a lot to be said for this. we will never have unemployment levels close to 0% in today's world because there is a so-called 'natural' rate of unemployment in any given economy and any move to boost employment further than this rate can only lead to inflation. We need ALOT of government spending for university and college courses in various fields of high-tech industry and other capital investment by the government because frankly the private sector can't and won't take the risk in today's economic climate. We can't lower taxes, only freeze, because of our balooning public debt.

7% growth would be achievable at some point given what I suggested and using that method. I admit, at the start the unemployment would rocket as the state would need to be halved in size just for us to get anywhere useful. The way to do it at the minute is lay off the state sector in sharp stages while reducing business taxes considerably along with decreasing other taxes or freezing them for the general public at large.

In that way the debts would be repaid and when the debts were repaid the way to go about it would be severe tax cuts, meaning taxation only existed for vital services such as the NHS, police and roads. Of course Whitehall and the public sector would never support anything as radical as this because its complete free-marketism and would signal the end of the client state which has balooned under this government.


Dander, i'm sorry to agree with dan but what you say really doesn't make sense - In theory businesses will employ more people if they make more profit to grow their business, in order to make more profit. As long as there is incentive to grow - they generally try.

Indeed.


I understand what you are saying, but that is why I said small / medium. Believe it or not, but the majority of them are happy at the size they are.

They are happy yeah, but if the economic conditions are right then they will expand and a business which creates vast profits has the ability to expand and create jobs, whereas now we are stuck in the socialist cycle of the state taxing that money away which leaves business stagnant. In a way, its creating stagnation in the economy in the same way as the banks not lending also creates stagnations.

The way to truly have an effective economy is small state and low taxation.

[Inseriousity.]

I agree with Tash (again lol). It's all about the experience and youths are stuck in a vicious circle where they can't get experience because no-one will give them any. I do believe it's the Conservatives (I'm neutral, I don't support any party so please correct me if I'm wrong) that say they're going to bring in a 'National Service' kind of idea but within the community, I think that may be a good idea!

Also, the unemployment rate is bound to be higher because of the recession. It'd be pretty illogical to expect it go down, after all. Then there are the disabled people who can't work, the lazy people who won't work and the really genuine people who want to find work but are stuck in a system that doesn't work for them (my dad's unemployed atm and I hope he's the latter :p).

[ifuseekamy]

A lot of it will also be housewives (possibly husbands) and people who are wealthy enough to not have to work too. Does the figure include students? Regardless unemployment is a problem, a lot of it is down to immigration, i.e. more coming in than going out, and the fact that minimum wage serves as a double edged sword where employers will illegally hire people who'll work for cash-in-hand wages below minimum. It's a sensitive subject that's somewhat of a taboo, but one that needs to be tackled.

[alexxxxx]

7% growth would be achievable at some point given what I suggested and using that method. I admit, at the start the unemployment would rocket as the state would need to be halved in size just for us to get anywhere useful. The way to do it at the minute is lay off the state sector in sharp stages while reducing business taxes considerably along with decreasing other taxes or freezing them for the general public at large.

Seeing as the UK has had average growth over the last 30years or so of 2.5%, 7% is really really really out of touch - even if we got 7% growth we would hit a wall of inflation and would require a stupid amount of immigration. 7% growth is what an emerging economy achieves where there is a lot of space for capacity growth.

also this "newspaper" article is truly poor. it gives no clarification of this includes students 16-22 nor those disabled or retired early.