Polish President dies in plane crash

[Jordy]

Polish President Lech Kaczynski and scores of others are believed to have been killed in a plane crash in Russia.
Officials in the Smolensk region said no-one had survived after the plane apparently hit trees as it came in for landing in thick fog.
Several other government figures, including the army chief of staff, were also thought to have been on board.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/mobile/world/europe/8612825.stm

RIP

[Tintinnabulate]

Just read it now. Why did they have planes designed in 1960 :S especially the president.

RIP.

[-:Undertaker:-]

He was against socialism all his life and helped with the efforts to free his country in the days under the socialist dictatorship that was the Soviet Union, in later years (infact rather recently) I remember he was one of the only European Presidents to attempt to stand up to the Lisbon Treaty for aslong as he could do so. RIP.

[kuzkasate]

Russia did tell them it would be very hard to land a plane in these weather conditions & offered them to land at a different airport. They rejected the offer.

They tried landing 3 times and on the 4th, they crashed. R.I.P

[Catzsy]

Russia did tell them it would be very hard to land a plane in these weather conditions & offered them to land at a different airport. They rejected the offer.

They tried landing 3 times and on the 4th, they crashed. R.I.P

There is to be a week of morning and 2 minutes silence all over the country tomorrow. It is a very sad thing to happen. They have recovered the black box so I am sure that there will be news soon. RIP all 96 who died.

[jrh2002]

There were so many important people on the plane so this will have a huge effect on Poland.

[xxMATTGxx]

Even though the plane may be very old, it does not mean it's not capable of flying. Although I'm not a big fan of these aircraft due to safety records and so on, the TU-154 has had 64 serious flight incidents including 36 hull losses with human fatalities. R.I.P to all on board and it is a great shame when air crashes happen and people lose their lives. :(


Russia did tell them it would be very hard to land a plane in these weather conditions & offered them to land at a different airport. They rejected the offer.

They tried landing 3 times and on the 4th, they crashed. R.I.P

If that is the case then that is such crap news. The crew of that plane should of listened and accepted the offer, I understand it takes time when you divert to another airport. But when weather is a factor, it can end up like today's crash.

[HotelUser]

I guarantee there's going to be some Europeans making incredibly stupid, immature and moronic jokes about this for years to come.

[xxMATTGxx]

Crew of jet that crashed with Polish president aboard disregarded controllers' advice to divert because of fog, Russian officials say

So what StalinJoseph said was correct. Hmmm, makes me wonder about the crew of that aircraft.

[Stefy09]

wife was on there too wasnt she?

[Jordy]

wife was on there too wasnt she?Yeah and the Army Chief and quite a lot of other important ministers too. I thought there would be rules against putting so many important people on a plane together encase something like this happened.

The ageing aircraft was recommended to be upgraded and why they ignored the Russian's Air Traffic Controllers is very odd. There's also rumours of them not being allowed to land on the first few attempts, some have also commented that only the very best Polish pilots carry the Polish President, and the fact they crashed is one for the conspiracy theorists I suppose :P

[Yoshimitsui]

Pressure must have been on the pilots to get into that airport, so whoever was at the front of that pretty much has all the deaths on their hands in my opinion. But silly silly decision not to divert from the pilots also.

[Special]

There were so many important people on the plane so this will have a huge effect on Poland.

i was thinking exatly the same

[kuzkasate]

So what StalinJoseph said was correct. Hmmm, makes me wonder about the crew of that aircraft.
Would I lie to you Matt :P But seriously, why would you not take that offer? Its a matter of life and death, literally. Quite silly really.. if you tried to land 3 times and then realised you cant and it is very hard, then get help and advice from the Russians, why on earth would you say no and try landing a fourth time?



There is to be a week of morning and 2 minutes silence all over the country tomorrow. It is a very sad thing to happen. They have recovered the black box so I am sure that there will be news soon. RIP all 96 who died.

I'm sure 132 died :/

[Jordy]

I'm sure 132 died :/That was the original figure quoted by the Russians I believe.

[MrGazet]

RIP
and it's silly to have many important people in the same plane

[xxMATTGxx]

Would I lie to you Matt :P But seriously, why would you not take that offer? Its a matter of life and death, literally. Quite silly really.. if you tried to land 3 times and then realised you cant and it is very hard, then get help and advice from the Russians, why on earth would you say no and try landing a fourth time?




I'm sure 132 died :/

I like seeing the source for myself :P.

If I was the crew I would of not tried the 4th time, three times would of been enough and I would of diverted to the next airport that had better weather conditions for sure.

[kuzkasate]

I like seeing the source for myself :P.

If I was the crew I would of not tried the 4th time, three times would of been enough and I would of diverted to the next airport that had better weather conditions for sure.

If I was the crew, I would use cmy brain a little bit more and see if theres such a thick fog which you could not see anything (trust me, I've lived in Russia, fogs get VERY thick) then I would just head for another airport.

[Catzsy]

Some news reports are saying 96 died and others 132. I guess it's too early to be accurate.

[Kieran]

Russia did tell them it would be very hard to land a plane in these weather conditions & offered them to land at a different airport. They rejected the offer.

They tried landing 3 times and on the 4th, they crashed. R.I.P

By Air Law, they should have diverted after two failed attempts anyway. God knows what they were thinking taking four attempts! The Tupolev is an extremely competent plane still even though it is a 1960's design. Pilot error will be stated as the cause of this crash like most others (70-80%).

[kuzkasate]

Who made the choice to go 4 times anyway? Pilots or the president? Either way, they picked what they wanted without asking the other crew passengers.

[Jordy]

Who made the choice to go 4 times anyway? Pilots or the president? Either way, they picked what they wanted without asking the other crew passengers.Hmm well I think some Black Boxes keep a record of audio between the pilots so we'll know then I assume. I very much doubt the president would be involved in such a decision, and it's highly inappropriate if he was consulted. The pilots should be incharge.

[kuzkasate]

Hmm well I think some Black Boxes keep a record of audio between the pilots so we'll know then I assume. I very much doubt the president would be involved in such a decision, and it's highly inappropriate if he was consulted. The pilots should be incharge.

Idiotic pilots then. They weren't carrying any old people, it was their bloody president.

[xxMATTGxx]

Would be interesting on what the recorders do pick up. I do feel that the pilots should of done what was right and listened to the ATC commands rather then following what the people on board wanted. (If that's what they did of course)



* Lech Kaczynski, the President of Poland
* Maria Kaczynska, the first lady
* Ryszard Kaczorowski, the last President of the Polish government-in-exile
* Jerzy Szmajdzinski, Deputy speaker of Sejm (Polish Parliament)
* Wladyslaw Stasiak, Minister of Internal Affairs and Administration
* Aleksander Szczyglo, head of the National Security Bureau
* Pawel Wypych, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
* Mariusz Handzlik, Undersectretary of State for International Affairs
* Andrzej Kremer, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
* Stanislaw Komorowski, deputy minister of national defence
* Grzegorz Dolniak, member of the Sejm
* Przemyslaw Gosiewski, Deputy Prime Minister of Poland
* Zbigniew Wassermann, member of the Sejm
* Janusz Kochanowski, Polish Ombudsman
* Slawomir Skrzypek, President of the National Bank of Poland
* Janusz Kurtyka, Historian and president of the Institute of National Remembrance
* Andrzej Przewoznik, Secretary-General of Rada Ochrony Pamie;ci Walk i Me;czen'stwa
* Tomasz Merta, chief historical conservator
* Bishop Tadeusz Ploski

Gen. Franciszek Gagor, chief of the General Staff
Gen. Bronislaw Kwiatkowski (Commander Operations)
Gen. Andrew Blasik (Air Force Commander in Chief)
Gen. Tadeusz Buk (Commander of Land Forces)
Gen. Wojciech Potasinski (Commander of Special Forces)
Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta (Commander in Chief of the Polish Navy)
Gen. Casimir Gilarski (Commander, Training)

And others.

I think Poland need to think hard when they are travelling key people in the government. Don't go all in the same plane/vehicle and so on like other governments or big companies do!

[AlexOC]

Its like the two only people in the world who know the exact recipe to Coca Cola. They can never be in the same place at once, incase something else happens, and one dies. The other one then tells someone else.

R.I.P

[Jordy]

Just been reading up on it a bit more, it really is astonishing they were all on the same flight;
"The list of casualties from the downed Polish Air Force jet would be comparable to the United States losing the President, First Lady, Sec. of State, Sec. of Defense, Chiefs of Staff from the Army and Navy, Speaker of the House, Director of National Intelligence, Director of the FBI, Chairman of the Federal Reserve, and more than a dozen members of Congress- all from a single plane crash."

[kuzkasate]

Just saw on the Russian news that it was the pilots decision to land. They also said that once, the president had to be somewhere urgently and he told the pilot to land what ever it takes, even if they were defo gonna crash. The pilot didnt fancy that, so he landed in Uzkekistan. The president threatend to get him arrested.

Also, they missed the landing mark by 300metres. I saw the animation of what happened. The pilot went below the minimum, so he went way too low & the left wing crashed into a tree which caused them to fall and then the plane blew up.

[Yoshimitsui]

Just saw on the Russian news that it was the pilots decision to land. They also said that once, the president had to be somewhere urgently and he told the pilot to land what ever it takes, even if they were defo gonna crash. The pilot didnt fancy that, so he landed in Uzkekistan. The president threatend to get him arrested.

Also, they missed the landing mark by 300metres. I saw the animation of what happened. The pilot went below the minimum, so he went way too low & the left wing crashed into a tree which caused them to fall and then the plane blew up.

Exactly as i thought, both the president and the Captain are complete morons for going against extreme weather conditions. If the statement is true about him saying 'attempt a landing even if we crash', well how could someone of such a status be ignorant of so many lives.

[Jordy]

Exactly as i thought, both the president and the Captain are complete morons for going against extreme weather conditions. If the statement is true about him saying 'attempt a landing even if we crash', well how could someone of such a status be ignorant of so many lives.Hmm well there is one explanation going round. The President has apparently had a right go at pilots before who have landed at other places than their intended destination. The Russians were also reluctant about the idea of the Polish coming to Russian for the anniversary of the event. What's going on here is that when the Russians said to land in Minsk (Belarus) rather than in Russia, the President interepreted this as an attempt by Russia to snub Poland and therefore asked the pilots to continue to Russia, in defiance sort of. Because the pilot didn't want to get into trouble with the President it's likely he obliged, hence this incident. I've read this a few times and apparently The Times also carries a similar story, it certainly sounds a reasonable explanation to the pilot's stupid activities. The fault still lies with the pilot of course, although the president somewhat had it coming with such an attitude.

[kuzkasate]

Hmm well there is one explanation going round. The President has apparently had a right go at pilots before who have landed at other places than their intended destination. The Russians were also reluctant about the idea of the Polish coming to Russian for the anniversary of the event. What's going on here is that when the Russians said to land in Minsk (Belarus) rather than in Russia, the President interepreted this as an attempt by Russia to snub Poland and therefore asked the pilots to continue to Russia, in defiance sort of. Because the pilot didn't want to get into trouble with the President it's likely he obliged, hence this incident. I've read this a few times and apparently The Times also carries a similar story, it certainly sounds a reasonable explanation to the pilot's stupid activities. The fault still lies with the pilot of course, although the president somewhat had it coming with such an attitude.

Its quite silly really. There were 3 planes due to land. One landed fine, after that the weather for very bad & the next landing due to take place was a Russian Navy Plane. Now if Russian Army couldnt land and had to fly back, why on earth did they even attempt a landing?

[Jordy]

Its quite silly really. There were 3 planes due to land. One landed fine, after that the weather for very bad & the next landing due to take place was a Russian Navy Plane. Now if Russian Army couldnt land and had to fly back, why on earth did they even attempt a landing?Indeed. I suppose it's what happens when you put together an idiotic over-controlling president with a spineless pilot.

[kuzkasate]

Indeed. I suppose it's what happens when you put together an idiotic over-controlling president with a spineless pilot.

Well, I presume his twin brother will be president now. Will be pretty hard to get a good team again.