Why not to vote labour

[Titch]

Labour has been in power for over 13 years, beginning 1997 with Tony Blair as leader. A government that has been around that long has had enough time to implement their vision for Britain. For me this vision has led to the most deleterious impact on the economy, on the mood of the nation, on education, on how people treat each other and the ever increasing intrusion of government into peoples personal lives. Here are the reasons I wont be voting Labour (in no particular order):

1. Budget deficit at an all time high.
The budget deficit is expected to reach £176 billion this year, a huge amount. And it continues to grow. The Labour government has been in power for 13 years now with Gordon Brown managing the budget for 10 of those years and Alistair Darling giving his third and hopefully last budget this year. What does this all mean? It means that the government is unsustainable and if they continue we will all be bankrupt.

2. Civil liberties eroded.
Since Labour has come to power, they have introduced over 3600 new laws (that's from 1997 till 2008 so there will be more added to that number). http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/more-than-3600-new-offenc... (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/more-than-3600-new-offences-under-labour-918053.html) . The most destructive are the anti-terrorism laws that allow police to detain anyone without cause. These laws have been used consistently against innocent citizens. The UK has the Largest DNA database of innocent people, the most CCTV cameras per person of any nation. We are not any safer as a nation, but are more likely to be breaking the law without even knowing which law is being broken.

3. Unfair tax system.
Labours has destroyed the definition of the word "Fair". Cash incentives for people to buy cars, tax breaks for some on buying houses, and many more tax breaks. However, I don't have a car or a house, yet I'm supporting those that are. The word “fair” is being used in their current campaign and are using it extensively in their interviews. They define a fair tax system as one where the higher earners (and by definition those that already pay more tax), should pay even more. People earning over £150,000 (I'm not one of those) get pushed into the 50% tax bracket. What incentive is there for people to actually work and support the economy if the government will just take your money away from you. Money is better managed by people spending it in the economy that handing it over to the government to fritter away.

4. This election is all about validating Gordon Brown.
The election win for Gordon Brown is not about Labour or the economy or a fair system for all. An election win for Gordon Brown will mean he has been elected by the people. Currently he is a Prime Minister who has been handed the job by Tony Blair, not a Prime Minister that has been voted in. This is the reason he is holding on for so long despite all those in his government plotting to get rid of him.

5. Expense scandal and lobbying scandal.
There is not much to say about this other than its criminal. The following document published on the parliament.uk website, outlines the history of MP salaries and what they are currently at now, expenses and all. It is a bit of a revelation as to the huge amount of benefits they can claim and also why so many of them hire their own family. They have over £100,000 pounds to hire personal staff.

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/M05.pdf
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1261577/MPs-expenses-cut-STILL-employ-relatives.html

6. Building a high tech economy.
What does this even mean and what does the government know about high tech? Is it about there being more computer users, higher internet speeds, more use of the internet ? The governments role is not to make people more computer literate or use the internet more or make businesses high tech. All this is the product of the market and the only way the market (and the economy) can improve is for the government to stay out of it. I don't want to pay for people who don't want to use the internet, or be forced to own a computer. It sounds ominously like Big Brother.

7. The Government is the highest advertiser in the UK.
The government spent £540 million on advertising in the past year ending March 2010. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/more-than-3600-new-offenc... (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/more-than-3600-new-offences-under-labour-918053.html)
All this spending is about changing peoples behaviour and making people think a certain way. I don't want my taxes spent on propaganda. Government take note. . . you can save half a billion on the budget deficit immediately by stopping the propaganda machine.

8. NHS is a mess.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/mar/25/nhs-management-numbers-frontline-staff
http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2010/03/nhs-manager-numbers-increase-by-84-in-a-decade/
At this rate there will be more management siphoning off NHS funds than doctors, nurses and specialist.

9. The Nanny Culture.
The government feels the need to control every aspect of peoples lives, to tell people what to eat, how much to drink, what to think. Taken together with the half a billion spent on advertising, people should be concerned at what memes the government is indoctrinating into peoples minds (and brainwashing children's). What this shows is Labours condescending view of its citizens.

10. Living in fear.
Fear seems to be the driving force of the Labour government. It is a powerful tool used to subdue the masses. Terrorism, climate change, smoking (first second and third hand), paedophiles around every corner, obesity epidemic, banking crisis, greedy bankers, swine flu, just to name a few. Now see how many laws Labour has passed down based on these.

This government has become far to big, has far to many fingers in every pie, and in order to exist it will continue to grow and eat up all the resources of the workers. Such a government is not sustainable. When I go to work day after day, week after week, year after year, I'm working to support my life. At least that is what I thought, however increasingly I've come to the realisation that I'm actually a cash cow for this government. I'm one of the few that doesn't live of any government handouts, doesn't use the NHS and has paid taxes in full every year. Labour's Unfair is more accurate of their policies.

And lets not even mention EU because that deserves its own page

[Kardan]

Personally I don't see why everyone is going politics crazy on here, it's not as if somebody's forum post is going to change anybodies mind - and even if they did, as if the one vote changed by HxF would make the difference :P

[jam666]

Personally I don't see why everyone is going politics crazy on here, it's not as if somebody's forum post is going to change anybodies mind - and even if they did, as if the one vote changed by HxF would make the difference :P

Its called voting for what YOU believe in. It shows that you care about YOUR life and YOUR country and that you want to make a change to make YOUR life and other peoples easier to lead.

This is what politics is about, and yes 1 vote may seem insignificant to you but that could be the difference between a new Conservative government or the same old rubbish weve had rotting away in number 10 for the last 13 years.

[Fez]

Personally I don't see why everyone is going politics crazy on here, it's not as if somebody's forum post is going to change anybodies mind - and even if they did, as if the one vote changed by HxF would make the difference :P

General Election incoming! This place goes political affairs bonkers!

[Kardan]

Its called voting for what YOU believe in. It shows that you care about YOUR life and YOUR country and that you want to make a change to make YOUR life and other peoples easier to lead.

This is what politics is about, and yes 1 vote may seem insignificant to you but that could be the difference between a new Conservative government or the same old rubbish weve had rotting away in number 10 for the last 13 years.

If I vote for what I believe in, I'm not going to be pursuaded by something on here :P I think that goes for pretty much everyone on here :P

And even though it's possible, I'm pretty sure the Tories won't win by just one vote.

[Pyroka]

I have a better thread idea: Why not to listen to titch.

All that stuff has been happening for like ever, its not gonna change overnight as soon as a new political party gets in, red tape n dat will stop all of that.

[Snowing]

Don't vote for that ****

[Smits]

A thread like this could be made for any party.

[AlexOC]

Haha Nick Griffin! Haha

In more serious terms, i would never vote Labour.

[jrh2002]

After 13 years of what I would call a failed attempt to make britain better surely another party deserves a chance? and then if the new party in power fails then they deserve to be voted out? These people who still support Labour remind me of loving deluded relatives who keep giving their gambling drunk relation some cash to pay all the household bills only to find out its all been pissed up the wall and put on horses.......

[Tintinnabulate]

After 13 years of what I would call a failed attempt to make britain better surely another party deserves a chance? and then if the new party in power fails then they deserve to be voted out? These people who still support Labour remind me of loving deluded relatives who keep giving their gambling drunk relation some cash to pay all the household bills only to find out its all been pissed up the wall and put on horses.......

Conservatives want things such as:

# Clear financial performance targets for senior civil servants

# Failing schools to be inspected more often - with the best schools visited less frequently

My college was put in special measures and was inspected very often. How "often" does Cameron want it???!? :S Its just wasting more money

# Clamp down on marketing aimed at children

Great?

Labour want things which will help people. i.e.

* No stamp duty for first-time buyers on all house purchases below £250,000 for two years, paid for by a 5% rate on homes worth more than £1 million.

* National Minimum Wage to rise in line with average earnings.

* Help for parents to balance work and family life, with a "Father's Month" of flexible paid leave.

Now you tell me, which sounds better? Anyone who says Conservatives are the "deluded" ones.

[cocaine]

babe no matter who comes into power the £176 bn fiscal deficit simply wont vanish overnight it'll take a good few years xox

and you dont win a general election, you lose one. nuff said.

[jrh2002]

Conservatives want things such as:

# Clear financial performance targets for senior civil servants

# Failing schools to be inspected more often - with the best schools visited less frequently

My college was put in special measures and was inspected very often. How "often" does Cameron want it???!? :S Its just wasting more money

# Clamp down on marketing aimed at children

Great?

Labour want things which will help people. i.e.

* No stamp duty for first-time buyers on all house purchases below £250,000 for two years, paid for by a 5% rate on homes worth more than £1 million.

* National Minimum Wage to rise in line with average earnings.

* Help for parents to balance work and family life, with a "Father's Month" of flexible paid leave.

Now you tell me, which sounds better? Anyone who says Conservatives are the "deluded" ones.

Labour have lied and lied and you believe them?

The minimum wage has cost a lot of jobs which then puts the person on benefits as well as working on the black market not paying any taxes.

If I employed people I would make sure those people knew their hours of work when they come for the interview and if they wanted to have flexible leave then I would give them plenty of family time and thats on the dole.

Dont care about stamp duty as I would not tie myself down to this country.

[Swastika]

It's came to my attention that you have mentioned labour rising the minimum wage a couple of times now, is that all you have to back up labour?
As i said in the other post, what have labour done for YOU, Mr Dander?
They've raised taxes, sent British troops to Afghanistan and Iraq (wich i think now has a British death toll of 281) and joined a union in which Britain has to consult them first before changing our own laws!
I also stated this in my previous post in reponse to you.

Edit - Also minimum wage is only good for the people who actually have jobs, most people where im from are unemployed to be honest.
I think 13 years in charge of the country is long enough, Britain needs change.


Conservatives want things such as:

# Clear financial performance targets for senior civil servants

# Failing schools to be inspected more often - with the best schools visited less frequently

My college was put in special measures and was inspected very often. How "often" does Cameron want it???!? :S Its just wasting more money

# Clamp down on marketing aimed at children

Great?

Labour want things which will help people. i.e.

* No stamp duty for first-time buyers on all house purchases below £250,000 for two years, paid for by a 5% rate on homes worth more than £1 million.

* National Minimum Wage to rise in line with average earnings.

* Help for parents to balance work and family life, with a "Father's Month" of flexible paid leave.

Now you tell me, which sounds better? Anyone who says Conservatives are the "deluded" ones.

[Tintinnabulate]

It's came to my attention that you have mentioned labour rising the minimum wage a couple of times now, is that all you have to back up labour?
As i said in the other post, what have labour done for YOU, Mr Dander?
They've raised taxes, sent British troops to Afghanistan and Iraq (wich i think now has a British death toll of 281) and joined a union in which Britain has to consult them first before changing our own laws!
I also stated this in my previous post in reponse to you.

Edit - Also minimum wage is only good for the people who actually have jobs, most people where im from are unemployed to be honest.
I think 13 years in charge of the country is long enough, Britain needs change.

You are asking me a question which I replied to in your previous post. Best to read it first instead of asking it over and over and not bothering to read the reply.

[Swastika]

Actually, clever cloggs - you did not.
I asked, as i have here, what changes has labour made that has benefitted you or you see has benefitted Britain as a country?
In the other thread, you proceeded to yap on about politics and parties on a local level, wich i did not ask for.
If you want to get technical and cocky about things, especially when your wrong, then dont bother posting.


You are asking me a question which I replied to in your previous post. Best to read it first instead of asking it over and over and not bothering to read the reply.

[Jordy]

Conservatives want things such as:

# Clear financial performance targets for senior civil servants

# Failing schools to be inspected more often - with the best schools visited less frequently

My college was put in special measures and was inspected very often. How "often" does Cameron want it???!? :S Its just wasting more money

# Clamp down on marketing aimed at children

Great?

Labour want things which will help people. i.e.

* No stamp duty for first-time buyers on all house purchases below £250,000 for two years, paid for by a 5% rate on homes worth more than £1 million.

* National Minimum Wage to rise in line with average earnings.

* Help for parents to balance work and family life, with a "Father's Month" of flexible paid leave.

Now you tell me, which sounds better? Anyone who says Conservatives are the "deluded" ones.You can't compare a minor Conservative policy to major Labour policies and use that as evidence for voting Labour :P

Financial performance targets are often a good thing and sorting out failing schools/colleges should be a priority.

And just to continue on from jrh on why we shouldn't trust the lying Labour, here's a fantastic list of 27 broken promises from their 2005 manifesto. I would copy and paste them below, but it'd take up the entire thread so I'll provide a link instead ;)
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2010/04/labours-27-broken-manifesto-promises.html

Reasons to vote Conservatives...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lYENdXKR_LA/S5fB9QpwSpI/AAAAAAAAFCg/O9A06TNkuDg/s400/6a00d83451b31c69e201310f67a04c970c.gif
Access to more cancer drugs
Laws to ensure that if the EU are to push anything like the Lisbon Treaty through us again, it will force a referendum
Stop national insurance rises along with other thatcherite business policies to encourage people to start businesses in the UK and attract businesses from abroad
Direct democracy, vote on your schools, police forces, MPs and councils performance with the ability to kick people out if need be.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Laws to ensure that if the EU are to push anything like the Lisbon Treaty through us again, it will force a referendum.

You know as well as I do and David Cameron himself that there will never be another treaty as the Lisbon Treaty is self-amending and does not require a referendum to pass powers/re-organise itself, futhermore the pledge that David Cameron has given over policy grabbing back from Brussels has already been shot down by Angela Merkel and he would need all 27 members of the European Union to agree to this. Ontop of this, our direct EU membership bill is set to soar this year at a time when we cannot afford it yet the Conservatives have pledged nothing to prevent this from occuring.

As much as I would like to believe in a Conservative government (as we have disscussed many times) its nothing short of false hope to believe in the self proclaimed 'heir to Blair'. I would like them to make a change, I would like to believe in them but I just cannot and neither can many others hence why the polls are so close. This government is just utterly terrible and if Labour form the next government, it wont be Labour who won it - it'll be Dave who lost it. I have faith in the party as a whole, as historically it has given us our best governments but under this leadership we are essentially voting for more of the same.

The sooner Cameron is replaced with the likes of Johnson, Hannan or Davies the better for the party and most importantly, the country.

[jam666]

Conservatives want things such as:

# Clear financial performance targets for senior civil servants

# Failing schools to be inspected more often - with the best schools visited less frequently

My college was put in special measures and was inspected very often. How "often" does Cameron want it???!? :S Its just wasting more money

# Clamp down on marketing aimed at children

Great?

Labour want things which will help people. i.e.

* No stamp duty for first-time buyers on all house purchases below £250,000 for two years, paid for by a 5% rate on homes worth more than £1 million.

* National Minimum Wage to rise in line with average earnings.

* Help for parents to balance work and family life, with a "Father's Month" of flexible paid leave.

Now you tell me, which sounds better? Anyone who says Conservatives are the "deluded" ones.


The Conservatives sound better. Lets take your points and see whats wrong with them.

"No stamp duty for first-time buyers on all house purchases below £250,000 for two years, paid for by a 5% rate on homes worth more than £1 million"

Oh dear.... the Conservatives can do better than this and pledge that stamp duty on house purchases below £250,000 will NEVER have to be paid, which
is better than the measly 2 years labour is doing it for.

"National Minimum Wage to rise in line with average earnings"

Yet more money businesses need to find to pay their employees which entails that people will be made redundant (particulary people who work in small businesses)
therefore this is a BAD thing.

"Help for parents to balance work and family life, with a "Father's Month" of flexible paid leave"

Another months wages that businesses will have to find to fund this silly policy and to add insult to injury have to spend more money on finding
a suitable replacement for the member of staff who is taking a months leave.

You see. These are utterly useless policys which benefit absolutely no one and therefore are a waste time and money. The only decent policy is the stamp duty threshhold being raised but the Conservatives have a better policy for that.

As a result, there is absolutely no reason on this planet why anyone should vote for labour when there are much better and suitable partys such as the Conservatives which people can vote for to get rid of the government which has been rotting away in number 10 for 13 years.

Plus, have you ever thought about this. You make it seem as if labour have new approach with new ideas. I'm sorry but they DON'T as they have had 13 years to express their so called "new ideas" so isnt it abit strange that they suddenly announce all of these just as a general election looms?

I think so.

Vote for change. Vote Conservative.

[Ajthedragon]

Over my dead body will me or any of my family vote for them, I can't get a job because of them...

[Tash.]

Over my dead body will me or any of my family vote for them, I can't get a job because of them...

I highly doubt it is solely the labour parties fault you cannot get a job. It is the fault of the global recession and probably your lack of experience, which applies to most if not all young people. Labour have actually done alot to help people like yourself in the form of apprenticeships, perhaps look into these. They are very good.

[Jordy]

I highly doubt it is solely the labour parties fault you cannot get a job. It is the fault of the global recession and probably your lack of experience, which applies to most if not all young people. Labour have actually done alot to help people like yourself in the form of apprenticeships, perhaps look into these. They are very good.There is also record youth unemployment...

[Tash.]

There is also record youth unemployment...

Which, unless you are severely warped in the head, you cannot blame the Labour party for solely. All the major economies have bad unemployment, it was inevitable.

Oh and I aren't suggesting anyone is warped in the head, merely misinformed.

[Jordy]

Which, unless you are severely warped in the head, you cannot blame the Labour party for solely. All the major economies have bad unemployment, it was inevitable.

Oh and I aren't suggesting anyone is warped in the head, merely misinformed.We were the last of the major nations to emerge from the economic downturn, Gordon Brown is no economic guru. I never have and never will blame Labour for the economic downturn, just their handling of it.

[Catzsy]

There is also record youth unemployment...

Interesting you should say this. Tbh all the parties manipulate the figures to suit themselves:P

A few facts -


“Under Labour, youth unemployment has reached over 900,000, with one in five young people unable to find a job.”

The latest statistical summary from the ONS headlines youth unemployment as that affecting 18-24 year-olds, of whom there are 715,000. However, if you look at the figure for 16-24-year-olds (and there’s no reason why you shouldn’t) it’s 200,000 higher, backing up the Tories’ claim. But, but, but. Contained within the 915,000 young unemployed are more than a quarter of a million full-time students. They’re included on this measure of unemployment because they are actively looking for, but say they haven’t been able to find, work. If they were excluded, the 16-24-year-old unemployed total would instead be 653,000. Nothing wrong with the Tories quoting the higher figure. But when you think of young people languishing without work, a student who can’t find a part-time job isn’t perhaps what you’d have in mind.

It’s also worth remembering – as the Conservatives yesterday promoted a poster with a picture of Gordon Brown saying “I caused record youth unemployment” at Labour’s manifesto launch – that comparable youth unemployment figures only go back to 1992. So although the high youth jobless tally is nothing for Labour to be proud of, the “record” excludes much of the recession counts under the last Tory administration.


“And we will raise the inheritance tax threshold to £1m to help millions of people who aspire to pass something on to their children, paid for by a simple flat-rate levy on all non-domiciled individuals.”

Millions of people may well aspire to pass riches on to their children – but how many of them would actually be helped by the Tories’ policy to raise the inheritance tax threshold to £1m?
The Treasury estimates a grand total of 11,000 estates would benefit from the increased threshold – 8,000 of them worth up to £1m and 3,000 worth over £1m.So far short of the millions the Tories suggest.

“Recorded violent crime against the person has risen sharply under Labour”

The two main sets of violent crime statistics show completely opposite trends.
In the blue corner, recorded crime figures – which are affected by changes in the way crimes are counted by the police – do show a rise. But in the red corner, the British Crime Survey, which asks people about their experiences of crime, shows violent offences have in fact decreased by more than 40 per cent.

This is politics, you can’t really blame the Tories from only quoting the statistics that are most useful to them…except they’ve been, specifically, warned not to by the head of the UK Statistics Authority.


“One in six children in the UK now lives in a workless household – the highest proportion of any country in Europe.”

True, according to European statistics. The latest figures available are for 2008 and show that 16.4 per cent of children in the UK live in a workless household, the highest figure in Europe.
But this figure has fallen from 18.9 per cent in 1997, or one in five children. And, as FactCheck found in 2007, this does not take into account the social differences such as the number of lone parent families in the UK, which the Office for National Statistics calculated to be 12 per cent of UK households in 2009.

It pays to look at all the parties claims objectively whether you support them or not.

[immense]

http://bnp.org.uk/files/2009/05/ukip-leaflet.jpg

[lazerman]

Too many people in this country, we cant support everyone, good choice is not to let any immigrants in other than skill workers who will actually work!!!! .

[Catzsy]

Too many people in this country, we cant support everyone, good choice is not to let any immigrants in other than skill workers who will actually work!!!! .

And how is that a reply to my post? @ mallett - oops not a very good spoof? Sack the proof reader! :P

[lazerman]

ops, quoted wrongly :S lol

[Catzsy]

ops, quoted wrongly :S lol

Okay no problem - I have to say I was somewhat confused there for a minute.

[Axel]

And even though it's possible, I'm pretty sure the Tories won't win by just one vote.

Maybe not, but think about what you're saying. You think that your vote won't count. Yes, you alone are only 1 person, your vote does not make much of a difference. However, lots of people like you will be thinking their vote doesn't count, meaning infact your vote does count if all the people who thought their vote didn't count actually voted.

[Misawa]

The thread need reasons why you should vote Labour. Oh wait, there are none.

Yes, lots of political debate here, and what, five percent of users here can vote? Oh well, it gets them motivated I suppose.

[Tash.]

The thread need reasons why you should vote Labour. Oh wait, there are none.

Yes, lots of political debate here, and what, five percent of users here can vote? Oh well, it gets them motivated I suppose.

Just because someone cannot vote yet doesn't mean they shouldn't have the capacity to debate the principles behind voting. I often wonder why you use this forum, you show considerable dislike for people who are below your age and supposed intellect, which I am presuming you consider the majority of the forum to be...

There are plenty of reasons to vote labour, in my opinion, looking at their manifesto and comparing it with that of the Conservatives for example. I did however like the sound of the Liberal Democrats also.

[Misawa]

^ Hence why I said it keeps them motivated. People need to actually read.

[Catzsy]

The thread need reasons why you should vote Labour. Oh wait, there are none.

Yes, lots of political debate here, and what, five percent of users here can vote? Oh well, it gets them motivated I suppose.

So you didn't agree with investors in films being given tax relief then?

http://www.ukfilminvestment.com/

[Misawa]

There is far more at stake than film investment which influences my decision that Labour are scum.

[Catzsy]

There is far more at stake than film investment which influences my decision that Labour are scum.

OKay well you are entitled to your opinion but you actually said there were no reasons at all.

[-:Undertaker:-]

So you didn't agree with investors in films being given tax relief then?

http://www.ukfilminvestment.com/

But that makes little difference when taxes are rising upon year and stealth taxes are also rising yearly, it is this system under which we lose a lot of money out on and which harms business. They take it away in tax, use a portion to fund the process which re-organises the money and then gives it back in the form of relief schemes or credit tax schemes - why not just go for the simple option of drastically cutting taxes in the first place thus also cutting the client state?

The reason is because a heck of a lot of Labour votes rely on it.

[Catzsy]

But that makes little difference when taxes are rising upon year and stealth taxes are also rising yearly, it is this system under which we lose a lot of money out on and which harms business. They take it away in tax, use a portion to fund the process which re-organises the money and then gives it back in the form of relief schemes or credit tax schemes - why not just go for the simple option of drastically cutting taxes in the first place thus also cutting the client state?

The reason is because a heck of a lot of Labour votes rely on it.

As a film maker, Misawa said they had done nothing and I was just pointing out to him they had especially for his particular profession. It was not a generalised statement about Labour Party Policy but a specific answer to him. :P

[Black_Apalachi]

I have a better thread idea: Why not to listen to titch.

All that stuff has been happening for like ever, its not gonna change overnight as soon as a new political party gets in, red tape n dat will stop all of that.

Yeah because keeping Labour in will change things much quicker. Oh wait, it's been 13 years....