Leaders Debate

[StefanWolves]

First one is in 10 minutes on ITV1.

Who's watching? I am. Should be interesting.

[lazerman]

BUMP, WATCHING AS WELL!!!!

[StefanWolves]

Nick Clegg's opening lines were impressive, I can see him benefiting from these the most out of all three leaders.

[lazerman]

Yes, lol at the PM tho ahahahaha.

[StefanWolves]

He's terrible. It has started a bit nicey nicey so far. Would like to see more passion and aggression. The PM is a laughing stock IMO.

[lazerman]

Yeh, i expected more fighting talk tbh

its building up as i expect tho

IT STARTED LOL!

[StefanWolves]

lol @ the pm getting pissed off

[lazerman]

liberal just owned them

[StefanWolves]

nick clegg has impressed me so far.

[lazerman]

yes, and just did again with crime.

[Lycan]

Good to see David Cameron put in his place.

[StefanWolves]

ohhhh cameron and brown going at it

[Lycan]

Brown just seems to be whipping Cameron... Love it.

[lazerman]

Nick just keeps owning them

[StefanWolves]

I agree David Cameron is coming stone dead LAST.

[lazerman]

David tried to beat nick and failed

[StefanWolves]

Gordon Brown is just robbing Nick Cleggs idea's and them laughing at him.

[lazerman]

Yeh, realized that lol. lol at the host as well.

[StefanWolves]

The host fails he doesn't know what to do.

[Lycan]

I think we can all agree we don't want David to win and this debate is exactly what we needed to show his true **** policies

[lazerman]

We dont want labour to win either seeing it ****.

Just becasue david cant come out with answers doesnt mean it all bull.

[jam666]

David Cameron is the only one of the three who is actually being straight with people, gordon brown is a laughing stock and clegg is like a stuck record repeating himself with his silly answers which are not direct answers to the question!. As for Cleggs idea of scrpaping Trident. is he completely MAD? It is a major deterrent to other countrys so scrapping it would be highly dangerous!.

Stop dodging the questions clegg and brown and actually answer them.

Cameron has yet again gave detailed and thorough answers which are SOLUTIONS to the problems and he clearly OUTLINES what he is GOING to do. What have the other two done apart from being rude and interupting each other.

I also hate the host is is favouring Brown and Clegg and constantly cutting Cameron off which is plain disgraceful.

[StefanWolves]

David Cameron is the only one of the three who is actually being straight with people, gordon brown is a laughing stock and clegg is like a stuck record repeating himself with his silly answers which are not direct answers to the question!. As for Cleggs idea of scrpaping Trident. is he completely MAD? It is a major deterrent to other countrys so scrapping it would be highly dangerous!.

Stop dodging the questions clegg and brown and actually answer them.

Cameron has yet again gave detailed and thorough answers which are SOLUTIONS to the problems and he clearly OUTLINES what he is GOING to do. What have the other two done apart from being rude and interupting each other.

I also hate the host is is favouring Brown and Clegg and constantly cutting Cameron off which is plain disgraceful.
Yes but he fails to detail how he plans to save £1 in every £100 spent. Therefore he's a liar, and is trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

[lazerman]

Yes but he fails to detail how he plans to save £1 in every £100 spent. Therefore he's a liar, and is trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

Yeh, because he doesnt have time to speak?

The host is not giving him THAT much time to talk, if your really bothered, why not research it?

[StefanWolves]

He has enough time to, you cannot blame it on the host. Gordon Brown asked him numerous times how he plans to save £6BN and he moved away from the subject every single time. I am now glad that the country is seeing how fake David Cameron is, he could not answer that question.

[Richie]

nick cleggs is doing the best imo very persuasive

[StefanWolves]

Clegg is doing by far the best, however I don't agree with him on the subject of Trident. David Cameron is again coming in stone dead last.

[lazerman]

Same goes to mr brown himself seeing he coming up with bull too?


Nick is the only good one so far tbh


Sorry if it seems like im against u, just i like debating ahahahah

[MrPinkPanther]

1.Clegg
2.Brown
3.Cameron

When I asked Nick a question at one of his town hall meetings he answered it fantastically! He just seems to be a genuine guy who really knows his stuff. Thumbs up to Nick.

[StefanWolves]

Nick Clegg is using real talk, but his policy on Trident is absolutely crazy. Gordon Brown is trying hard to get his points across but I don't get it.

[MrPinkPanther]

Sorry, why is the policy on Trident crazy? Tell me, when are we going to use Nuclear weapons in the next 25 years? We simply won't.

[lazerman]

Why is it crazy?

[StefanWolves]

Sorry, why is the policy on Trident crazy? Tell me, when are we going to use Nuclear weapons in the next 25 years? We simply won't.
There will come a day when Korea/Iran have Nuclear weapons. And if we go down the route of scrapping Trident and in turn scrapping our Nuclear weapons, as one the ONLY G8 country in the world without Nuclear weapons, we would be the first to be attacked.

Do you really want us to be wiped off the planet? at least if we have Trident, we have a deterrent.

[lazerman]

We talking about now, not in the next 40/50 years tbh.

[StefanWolves]

The problem is NOW. Iran and North Korea could have Nuclear weapons RIGHT NOW for all we know.

[lazerman]

I lol'd

They wouldnt attack, if so, it would result a world war 3 nuclear war.

[Hitman]

Nick looked to be doing the best, although I think we should keep and maintain trident... we may not use it, but it is a deterrent and will make other countries think twice about starting a conflict.

Gordon Brown just coming out with bull and lies. Why is he PM? He looks and sounds like he doesn't care about the country, just about ticking boxes and meeting targets. We need somebody in power who wants Britain to be a strong and happy nation with justice.

I would rather the Conservatives or the Liberal Democrats win the election than Labour. Labour have had 13 years to do whatever, yet only now they introduce a load of new things to make people happy. I doubt they would put them into action.

[MattFr]

Nick was an idiot throughout that. He repeated the same old crap and got in the way of the proper debates. What a waste of space.

[lazerman]

Nick was an idiot throughout that. He repeated the same old crap and got in the way of the proper debates. What a waste of space.

Repeated what crap?

[alexxxxx]

i think Cameron's main argument was "why haven't you done it then" to anything that gord says. what gordon says makes more sense economically. Cameron seems to think that economy=fiscal situation of the government which isn't true. I think you could tell who knew what they were on about between those two. The fact is that the country can never be perfect and especially over the last few years the government at the mid-top level has lost its way - whether gordon can realistically change this without personnel changes is up for debate.

Clegg looked fairly good but he didn't get involved in the debate too much, he didn't try to spark many 3-way arguments. I think the Lib Dems throughout have been the most honest with their policies.

[MattFr]

About how his manifesto outlined where money would come from etc. He said it once and everyone heard, no need to repeat it.

[Swastika]

Does anybody know if its going to be on repeat or anything anytime soon?

[lazerman]

Clegg looked fairly good but he didn't get involved in the debate too much, he didn't try to spark many 3-way arguments. I think the Lib Dems throughout have been the most honest with their policies.

Its better like that, why bother arguing when you can just say your policies and leave the old crap out.

[MattFr]

i think Cameron's main argument was "why haven't you done it then" to anything that gord says
But that's the point. How can anyone possibly trust all these revolutionary new plans when they haven't done it over the last 13 years?

[Luke]

Well, after watching, i've changed my mind; Lib Dem! (:

[alexxxxx]

About how his manifesto outlined where money would come from etc. He said it once and everyone heard, no need to repeat it.

yeah that's true but even still i thought he was either equal or on par with GB

&again, there is an argument for that.

[lazerman]

Nick was the favourite!

[Tash.]

I agree with many of you in saying that Cameron did himself no real favours here. He seemed smarmy at best and I just don't think answered the questions properly. Clegg did well, as I think did Brown. I think Brown may have done himself a few favours tonight, I certainly find him marginally more likeable if nothing else.

[MattFr]

I agree with many of you in saying that Cameron did himself no real favours here. He seemed smarmy at best and I just don't think answered the questions properly. Clegg did well, as I think did Brown. I think Brown may have done himself a few favours tonight, I certainly find him marginally more likeable if nothing else.
But Cameron addressed the real issues, job tax; completely pointless, taking money out the NHS and the Education system where the country needs it the most.

[Titch]

I agree with many of you in saying that Cameron did himself no real favours here. He seemed smarmy at best and I just don't think answered the questions properly. Clegg did well, as I think did Brown. I think Brown may have done himself a few favours tonight, I certainly find him marginally more likeable if nothing else.

brown did do well, however i think clegg done extremely well tonight.just spoken to my mum and shes thinking of voting them now instead of conservatives. lool

[alexxxxx]

i personally thought clegg won the immigration debate. brown seemed to have no plans but to tighten up the points based system. cameron's blitz on just a blind number i thought was quite clearly misguided. clegg's work permit in specific areas of work and in specific areas of the country is a MUCH better idea. All that will happen with Cameron's is that the number will simply run out about october time each year meaning that businesses lose out and you'll get a backlog in january.

[Tash.]

But Cameron addressed the real issues, job tax; completely pointless, taking money out the NHS and the Education system where the country needs it the most.

What I wrote was just my opinion, if you believe he did then that's fine. In my mind he came across as pretty much a snake who had nothing much to say except "you've had 13 years, you haven't sorted it so why now..?" He was repetitive and boring.


brown did do well, however i think clegg done extremely well tonight.just spoken to my mum and shes thinking of voting them now instead of conservatives. lool

Agreed. I'd certainly consider the Lib Dems but my heart does belong with Labour. Funnily enough my mum has also mentioned perhaps voting for the Lib Dems following this :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

As usual the massive elephant in the room is not mentioned which is the European Union, it is a whitewash because you cannot control immigration or crime properly without leaving the European Union. As a add on note; to those who are interested watch BBC One now as Question Time is coming on.

[alexxxxx]

As usual the massive elephant in the room is not mentioned which is the European Union, it is a whitewash because you cannot control immigration or crime properly without leaving the European Union. As a add on note; to those who are interested watch BBC One now as Question Time is coming on.

thatll come under international affairs, which is on either SKY or BBC i can't remember. this was for soley domestic issues i believe.

and to answer the immigration and crime bit, we could improve our crime fighting if we were to co-operate more with european police, something that britain is very apprehensive about.

[Fez]

As usual the massive elephant in the room is not mentioned which is the European Union, it is a whitewash because you cannot control immigration or crime properly without leaving the European Union. As a add on note; to those who are interested watch BBC One now as Question Time is coming on.

I'll be watching it on iPlayer afterwards.

[Black_Apalachi]

The host fails he doesn't know what to do.

I thought Alastair Stewart did a fantastic job.


David Cameron is the only one of the three who is actually being straight with people, gordon brown is a laughing stock and clegg is like a stuck record repeating himself with his silly answers which are not direct answers to the question!. As for Cleggs idea of scrpaping Trident. is he completely MAD? It is a major deterrent to other countrys so scrapping it would be highly dangerous!.

Stop dodging the questions clegg and brown and actually answer them.

Cameron has yet again gave detailed and thorough answers which are SOLUTIONS to the problems and he clearly OUTLINES what he is GOING to do. What have the other two done apart from being rude and interupting each other.

I also hate the host is is favouring Brown and Clegg and constantly cutting Cameron off which is plain disgraceful.

Wow, not biased at all are we. Cameron was as bad as Brown at dodging the questions. While they were busy arguing about helicopters, Clegg seemed to be raising some valid and useful points. Out of the three, Clegg repeated himself the least. His point about scrapping Trident based on the fact this isn't the 20th century Cold War any more is a very justifiable method of cutting expenditure. Cameron was using his family to win votes which is disgusting. And you're bashing the host? At one point he actually saved Cameron from having to answer a tricky question put to him by Brown by cutting him off. You did realise there was a time limit for each person as they spoke, right? You know, it's people like you that just push me further and further away from whatever you're preaching.

As for Brown, all he did was agree with any good points put forward by the other two and whenever he was backed into a corner he just laughed. You can't just laugh away all your problems. We need answers and solutions. Cameron's point about how Labour have had 13 years to put their words into action is completely true. What's the point in getting to a month before a general election and then start raving on about all the amazing things you're going to do. Why not just do them during the time you've been in office, which is over a decade, then we'd actually be able to see how awesome Labour is. There's no use whining to us about it now.

The main thing I drew from all that is that Labour and the Tories are pretty much the same party. If they were the only three parties then I'd be voting Lib Dem. I think at this point it's between them and UKIP.

[Catzsy]

I have been saying that Nick Clegg comes over as the most believable for the last couple of weeks in C/A and he did tonight. He came over the best - no doubt about it. Then Gordon Brown who didn't do as bad as I thought. David Cameron just comes over as Mr. Plastic to me although I am sure he is really a nice guy. He really made a gaffe by criticising the 7% increase for NHS Managers while addressing an NHS Manager - I thought that was hysterical
Nick Clegg may not do so well i the international or economy debates though but we will see. I am sure the Lib Dems will rise in the polls after this. Problem they have is that they are untested really in Government.

[jam666]

Cameron didn't dodge the questions at all, he actually answered them unlike the other two who baffled on and on about things which didn't relate to the question at all. However Cleggs policy on Trident is VERY ALARMING. Yes your right, we DONT live in in the cold war era, BUT we DO live with a threat posed by IRAN and NORTH KOREA. If trident were scrapped we would be a significant disadvantage as it acts as a deterrent for other country's. As a result, you want to scrap it, were defenceless which is a VERY DANGEROUS position to be in.


Of course I'm bashing the host, if you actually WATCHED the program you could clearly see Alistair was cutting the leaders off in key moments of their answers. The only person NOT to break the rules was David Cameron as the other two wouldn't shut up when their time was up so don't give me
You did realise there was a time limit for each person as they spokeas of course I realise there was a time limit but it was rather obvious Clegg and Brown didn't realise this.



You know, it's people like you that just push me further and further away from whatever you're preaching.


Its also people like you, who are deluded and cannot see the debates for what they were as I previously said.

I also found Nick Cleggs body language to be absolutely terrible. Sorry but having your hand in your pocket clearly shows you are un-interested and dont actually care and as a result if he doesnt care then why should other people?

[Tintinnabulate]

I hated the way Cameron stood. I lol'd when Gordon Brown asked him questions and he dodged them. Cameron didn't even say what he would really do about immigration, while the other two did in their 1 minute.

I will reply to several posts tomorrow as I am quite tired at the moment.

Cameron might regret taking part in these debates.

[MattFr]

I hated the way Cameron stood. I lol'd when Gordon Brown asked him questions and he dodged them. Cameron didn't even say what he would really do about immigration, while the other two did in their 1 minute.

I will reply to several posts before me tomorrow as I am quite tired at the moment.

Cameron might regret taking part in these debates.
Did you actually watch the program?

[Tintinnabulate]

Did you actually watch the program?

Ofcourse not :rolleyes:.

[MattFr]

Ofcourse not :rolleyes:.
Fantastic.

[Fez]

http://blogossus.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/nickkkk.jpg

[Black_Apalachi]

Cameron didn't dodge the questions at all, he actually answered them unlike the other two who baffled on and on about things which didn't relate to the question at all. However Cleggs policy on Trident is VERY ALARMING. Yes your right, we DONT live in in the cold war era, BUT we DO live with a threat posed by IRAN and NORTH KOREA. If trident were scrapped we would be a significant disadvantage as it acts as a deterrent for other country's. As a result, you want to scrap it, were defenceless which is a VERY DANGEROUS position to be in.


Of course I'm bashing the host, if you actually WATCHED the program you could clearly see Alistair was cutting the leaders off in key moments of their answers. The only person NOT to break the rules was David Cameron as the other two wouldn't shut up when their time was up so don't give me as of course I realise there was a time limit but it was rather obvious Clegg and Brown didn't realise this.





Its also people like you, who are deluded and cannot see the debates for what they were as I previously said.

I also found Nick Cleggs body language to be absolutely terrible. Sorry but having your hand in your pocket clearly shows you are un-interested and dont actually care and as a result if he doesnt care then why should other people?

Well I clearly watched it more closely than you because I remember a specific incident where Brown asked him something to which he avoided by saying something else so Brown was going 'answer the question David' but the time ran out so the host moved them on.

And I'm deluded? Says the guy with the most narrow-minded view I have ever seen. At least I'm approaching my analysis from a neutral perspective.

Edit: Apeel's post above is exactly what I was talking about.

[Tintinnabulate]

http://blogossus.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/nickkkk.jpg

Last photo of Cameron is hilarious.

[Fez]

Last photo of Cameron is hilarious.

One thing I noticed is the fact he doesn't once smile or make a joke or appear human in any sense.

Gordon made a few jokes, Clegg tried to speak to the audience and wrote the questioner's names down, Brown was the first to go out and shake the audience's hands.

Genuine guys, Cameron wants to be Paris Hilton when he grows up.

[Black_Apalachi]

One thing I noticed is the fact he doesn't once smile or make a joke or appear human in any sense.

Gordon made a few jokes, Clegg tried to speak to the audience and wrote the questioner's names down, Brown was the first to go out and shake the audience's hands.

Genuine guys, Cameron wants to be Paris Hilton when he grows up.

All the shaking hands etc is just part of the act. It's wise to ignore that sort of stuff on focus on what they say and decide whether they really mean what they say or not.

[Fez]

All the shaking hands etc is just part of the act. It's wise to ignore that sort of stuff on focus on what they say and decide whether they really mean what they say or not.

Well the way he did it was he went straight off his podium and to the audience. Either that's scripted or just the way he does things.

At a town hall near me, I missed it because I was ill, he took questions on immigration and afterwards he thanked everyone for turning out. He then set up a table for 1-1 question asking, shook everyones hands and even if it was all just an act, at least it worked.

Cameron is pathetic.

[Black_Apalachi]

Well the way he did it was he went straight off his podium and to the audience. Either that's scripted or just the way he does things.

At a town hall near me, I missed it because I was ill, he took questions on immigration and afterwards he thanked everyone for turning out. He then set up a table for 1-1 question asking, shook everyones hands and even if it was all just an act, at least it worked.

Cameron is pathetic.

Of course it's the way he does things. He's the prime minister. All these guys know how to make the best impressions on people, it's their job. I'm just saying I'd be worried if people based their vote on how friendly the party candidate is.

[Fez]

Of course it's the way he does things. He's the prime minister. All these guys know how to make the best impressions on people, it's their job. I'm just saying I'd be worried if people based their vote on how friendly the party candidate is.

Totally agree.

[Jordy]

Well I haven't seen it, but I caught about 20 minutes of it on Radio 4 and then drifted off it was that boring and I was so tired :P

From the bit I did hear though, Cameron was being interrupted constantly and hardly given any chance. Brown seemed very arrogant and continually agreeing with Clegg. Clegg sounds like quite the performer (Although it's difficult to tell on the radio) so that would explain all the praise, but if people stepped away from that they'd realise the Liberal Democrats do have the worst and most unrealistic policies, we'd be better off with Labour.

Cameron probably could of done better from the reports I've been hearing, but I still maintain the Conservatives policies are the best and if you look at his performances in Prime Ministers Questions every week you will see how amazing he is at speaking. No debates going to change those facts for me and I wish it was the same for other people.

[Catzsy]

Totally agree.

Well at least it gives the public to here it straight from the candidates rather than via the media that tends to slant it to whoever's colours they have pinned to the mask. @ Jordy there was no interrupting - the presenter directed the debate but he was strict on time.

[jam666]

Well I clearly watched it more closely than you because I remember a specific incident where Brown asked him something to which he avoided by saying something else so Brown was going 'answer the question David' but the time ran out so the host moved them on.

And I'm deluded? Says the guy with the most narrow-minded view I have ever seen. At least I'm approaching my analysis from a neutral perspective.

Edit: Apeel's post above is exactly what I was talking about.

Oh dear.. abit strange isnt it that on the last question asked about elderly care all nick clegg had to basically say was well look at it together after the election. There was no solution to the problem and simply said it will be discussed at a later date. Gordon Brown gave pretty much the same answer. However David Cameron said that EVERYONE will have the option to pay a one off fee of £8,000 to ensure that they dont have to sell their house if they needed to go into residential care.

Im not narrow minded. I'm simply stating what i see and yes you can call me biased but thats expected because i obviously support the conservative party.

[GommeInc]

I decided to go with the LibDems early this week, and what Clegg had to say was informative and in some instances useful. The Trident and Nuclear issues are indeed worrying, but I'm not going to chuck him on the back bench because of this - the chances are he may not scrap Trident, if the public oppose it too much. The key issues are what we should be focusing on, and Clegg did the best at putting them across.

Cameron was a bit useless, and some of his policies are a bit bonkers, like the one revolving around marriage and giving married couples money. Gordon Brown was okay though, not amazing but this definitely put him in a good light - his airbrushed comment was legendary :P

[Fez]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but scrapping the Trident wouldn't take away all of our nuclear arsenal would it?

[lazerman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but scrapping the Trident wouldn't take away all of our nuclear arsenal would it?

not really, people are just worried cos they think it will get rid of all nuclear missiles rofl

[Fez]

Well we will still have nuclear deterrents and God knows how much we already spend on maintaining them. We don't need to upgrade our Armageddon weapons.

If it was up to me, I wouldn't scrap the whole scheme, I'd half the budget. We still have more nuclear deterrents than Iran and Korea.

Nice of Cameron (or was it Brown?) to mention China too. I doubt they would want to take over the world, they already have done financially.

[Jordy]

Trident is the only way we can deliver nuclear weapons (From four special submarines). We can have missiles and stockpiles without trident I think, but with no way of dropping them they'd be useless :P

Halving the budget would also be bad, there's four submarines. One is anywhere in the world, only a few people in Britain and a few people onboard know where it is, if there is the call to fire nuclear weapons, this will be the submarine which sends them. One will be going under repair/upgrades in Scotland and the other two will be undergoing training and ready to go into service if need be. These rotate every few months or so and if there was any less than four there would be certain times when we would have no nuclear weapons capability.

Titch is quite the expert here though as he's going to be spending time in a Trident submarine soon I think?

[Black_Apalachi]

Oh dear.. abit strange isnt it that on the last question asked about elderly care all nick clegg had to basically say was well look at it together after the election. There was no solution to the problem and simply said it will be discussed at a later date. Gordon Brown gave pretty much the same answer. However David Cameron said that EVERYONE will have the option to pay a one off fee of £8,000 to ensure that they dont have to sell their house if they needed to go into residential care.

Im not narrow minded. I'm simply stating what i see and yes you can call me biased but thats expected because i obviously support the conservative party.

That just supports the common conception that the Conservative party is for the rich. Our family would never be able to afford to throw that kind of money away like that so why should I vote for them? Of course it assumes you own a house in the first place!


Correct me if I'm wrong, but scrapping the Trident wouldn't take away all of our nuclear arsenal would it?

Exactly. And being scared of Korea and Iran or whoever else is a ******** argument because by that logic, every nation in the world should equip themselves with nuclear weapons as any one of them could be attacked by Korea etc at any time. Why should they attack anyone, especially us? It just seems like paranoia to me.

[jam666]

That just supports the common conception that the Conservative party is for the rich. Our family would never be able to afford to throw that kind of money away like that so why should I vote for them? Of course it assumes you own a house in the first place!

No, you have interpretted this wrongly. If you cant afford to pay the £8000 and dont have anything such as a house youll recieve FREE residential care like you do currently BUT if your aged 65 for example and have a house worth £250,000 but have to go into a residential home you can pay a mere £8000 to ensure that the house is left for inheritance by your sons/daughters or whoever which is quite fair. It means instead of leaving nothing for anyone, you can instead pay a SMALL fee to protect your property (or any financial items such as savings etc) which will pay for the residential care home for the rest of your life which means your assets are essential protected from the state.

[Black_Apalachi]

Why do you have to pay anything though? I don't see why your own house can't automatically pass down to your family.

[Jordy]

I don't see what you're getting at, you complain how the Tories don't tax the rich, now it turns out that they do you'd rather no one was taxed.

[Catzsy]

I don't see what you're getting at, you complain how the Tories don't tax the rich, now it turns out that they do you'd rather no one was taxed.

I am not sure if you could class somebody that owns a house rich, Jordy but I guess the £8000 is better than having to use the whole lot although the care in the home idea sounds a lot better I feel.

[jam666]

Why do you have to pay anything though? I don't see why your own house can't automatically pass down to your family.

You dont HAVE to pay. Its an Opt-In system whereby if you want to pay the £8000, you can and your asssets are protected from the state which means that your relatives get some inheritence and you get free residental care.

The state can NOT afford to give EVERYONE free residential care as it will cost far too much. The only reason SOME people havnt passed down their houses to their family is because they have no other way to pay for the care they need so they sold the house and gave the money needed to care for them to the state which will cost ALOT more than to opt in to the proposed system under the Conservatives and pay £8000.

[MrPinkPanther]

There will come a day when Korea/Iran have Nuclear weapons. And if we go down the route of scrapping Trident and in turn scrapping our Nuclear weapons, as one the ONLY G8 country in the world without Nuclear weapons, we would be the first to be attacked.
No, we wouldn't be attacked first because we wouldn't pose as much of a threat to them. North Korea and Iran wouldn't just aimlessly nuke countries, it would only be if they thought we endangered them. You did however bring up a valid point, all other G8 Countries have Nuclear weapons, we are in an alliance with them, if we get Nuked then they Nuke the aggressor. If anything we are less likely to be attacked with Nuclear weapons if we dispose of them.

[Black_Apalachi]

Oh, I get it now thanks x


No, we wouldn't be attacked first because we wouldn't pose as much of a threat to them. North Korea and Iran wouldn't just aimlessly nuke countries, it would only be if they thought we endangered them. You did however bring up a valid point, all other G8 Countries have Nuclear weapons, we are in an alliance with them, if we get Nuked then they Nuke the aggressor. If anything we are less likely to be attacked with Nuclear weapons if we dispose of them.

Exactly. We're just as bad as they are for holding the weapons because they are always a threat to anyone else. Maybe if we want them to get rid of theirs, we should get rid of ours. Either way, the only reason they might attack us is because we're potentially threatening them with weapons too.

[MrPinkPanther]

I mean lets be clear about this. Trident is going to cost us £100,000,000,000. Now just think about how big that Number is. Its over £1600 for every man, woman and child living in Britain. Now if you'd rather see us build redundant Nuclear weapons rather than give everyone in Britain £1600 then you are frankly naive.

[MattFr]

I mean lets be clear about this. Trident is going to cost us £100,000,000,000. Now just think about how big that Number is. Its over £1600 for every man, woman and child living in Britain. Now if you'd rather see us build redundant Nuclear weapons rather than give everyone in Britain £1600 then you are frankly naive.

I think if advisers that actually know what they're talking about say we should redevelop Trident, we should. Calling people naive is a little harsh when frankly no one one this forum knows enough about Trident and military planning to pass judgement.

[MrPinkPanther]

I think if advisers that actually know what they're talking about say we should redevelop Trident, we should. Calling people naive is a little harsh when frankly no one one this forum knows enough about Trident and military planning to pass judgement.
It possibly is a bit harsh but I get a little bit "passionate" about these kind of things as I'm sure you know ^^. The problem with "advisers" is that they always believe their area is a priority. For example police advisers would say we need more police and NHS advisers would say we need more hospitals. The fact of the matter is we won't be using Nuclear weapons in the next 25 years and if we do then it will be against another country who has threatened us with Nuclear weapons and will therefore result in the destruction of our country anyway. We'd be better off without them and we should act more as a "passive" country like Finland or Sweden. Even if we did restore Trident then our number of Nuclear weapons is insignificant compared to larger states like the US who have around 9000 Nuclear weapons (We have less than 200)

Why not put the money to good use to fund the NHS or other key services?

[MattFr]

It possibly is a bit harsh but I get a little bit "passionate" about these kind of things as I'm sure you know ^^. The problem with "advisers" is that they always believe their area is a priority. For example police advisers would say we need more police and NHS advisers would say we need more hospitals. The fact of the matter is we won't be using Nuclear weapons in the next 25 years and if we do then it will be against another country who has threatened us with Nuclear weapons and will therefore result in the destruction of our country anyway. We'd be better off without them and we should act more as a "passive" country like Finland or Sweden. Even if we did restore Trident then our number of Nuclear weapons is insignificant compared to larger states like the US who have around 9000 Nuclear weapons (We have less than 200)

Why not put the money to good use to fund the NHS or other key services?
NHS and other key services are pointless if we get attacked by nuclear weapons ;)

[jam666]

I mean lets be clear about this. Trident is going to cost us £100,000,000,000. Now just think about how big that Number is. Its over £1600 for every man, woman and child living in Britain. Now if you'd rather see us build redundant Nuclear weapons rather than give everyone in Britain £1600 then you are frankly naive.

Same old liberal views with same old liberal policys. The problem is that your views are too idealistic, of course in an ideal world we would love to scrap tutition fees, of course we would like to give a tax break to the first £10,000 you earn and of course we would love to scrap trident. Oh, sorry to burst your liberal bubble but that aint going to happen. EVER.

It would cost far too much to scrap tutition fees and if i recall rightly clegg said it would happen over six years?. This is barmi as it would have to take place over TWO parliaments and there is not a cat in hells chance he will be elected anyway. Mr.Clegg even admitted himself when confronted by a student that it was not feasable to scrap tuition fees but has still continued with his miss-matched plan where the figures do not add up.

On the subject of the tax break for the first £10,000 you earn. We can NOT afford to do so and as a result the policy is just NOT feasable. You could say they published more figures in their manifesto?. Im sorry but this means absolutely nothing as you can say whatever figures you want but it doesnt necessarily make them correct.

As for Trident. It is ABSOLUTELY VITAL that we keep it operation 24hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. As if we were to scrap trident we would be pretty much defenceless and im 100% sure that the vast majority of people would pay £1600 to ensure that we have a nuclear deterrent so that britain is safe. Of course if the rest of the world didnt pose a threat it should be scrapped, but quite frankly it DOES pose a threat and we need to be protected from it.

[MrPinkPanther]

NHS and other key services are pointless if we get attacked by nuclear weapons ;)
Ah but so would Nuclear weapons themselves, in fact the NHS would be more useful because it could treat those who have been maimed by them. The difference is the NHS is useful when there isn't a Nuclear holocaust going on when in that situation the weapons are redundant.


Same old liberal views with same old liberal policys. The problem is that your views are too idealistic, of course in an ideal world we would love to scrap tutition fees, of course we would like to give a tax break to the first £10,000 you earn and of course we would love to scrap trident. Oh, sorry to burst your liberal bubble but that aint going to happen. EVER.

It would cost far too much to scrap tutition fees and if i recall rightly clegg said it would happen over six years?. This is barmi as it would have to take place over TWO parliaments and there is not a cat in hells chance he will be elected anyway. Mr.Clegg even admitted himself when confronted by a student that it was not feasable to scrap tuition fees but has still continued with his miss-matched plan where the figures do not add up.
Ok firstly tell me why all of the Liberal Democrats plans are costed in their manifesto if their figures are so wrong? Are the Conservatives figures costed? No. Why? Because they know you can't just say "We will get rid of £6 Billion of waste". It doesn't make sense.

As for Top up fees have you kinda not just shot yourself in the foot there? You are saying that the Liberal Democrats are unrealistic when you have just given a point about how realistic they are. With a budget defecit this large it isn't possible to scrap top up fees so yes, they will have to be phased out over 6 years. Whats so wrong with that?



On the subject of the tax break for the first £10,000 you earn. We can NOT afford to do so and as a result the policy is just NOT feasable. You could say they published more figures in their manifesto?. Im sorry but this means absolutely nothing as you can say whatever figures you want but it doesnt necessarily make them correct.
If their figures are so wrong then please tell me why even the Thatcherite Norman Tebbit has said that he supports Liberal Democrat tax proposals oh and why Vince Cable is held in higher regard than George Osbourne.



As for Trident. It is ABSOLUTELY VITAL that we keep it operation 24hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. As if we were to scrap trident we would be pretty much defenceless and im 100% sure that the vast majority of people would pay £1600 to ensure that we have a nuclear deterrent so that britain is safe. Of course if the rest of the world didnt pose a threat it should be scrapped, but quite frankly it DOES pose a threat and we need to be protected from it.
A) Nuclear weapons are not our only form of defence
B) If attacked we wouldn't use them anyway
C) We have allies with over a hundred times as many Nuclear weapons than in Trident
D) There is no major threat to our national security, they are literally redundant

[Jordy]

Ah but so would Nuclear weapons themselves, in fact the NHS would be more useful because it could treat those who have been maimed by them. The difference is the NHS is useful when there isn't a Nuclear holocaust going on when in that situation the weapons are redundant.

Ok firstly tell me why all of the Liberal Democrats plans are costed in their manifesto if their figures are so wrong? Are the Conservatives figures costed? No. Why? Because they know you can't just say "We will get rid of £6 Billion of waste". It doesn't make sense.

As for Top up fees have you kinda not just shot yourself in the foot there? You are saying that the Liberal Democrats are unrealistic when you have just given a point about how realistic they are. With a budget defecit this large it isn't possible to scrap top up fees so yes, they will have to be phased out over 6 years. Whats so wrong with that?

If their figures are so wrong then please tell me why even the Thatcherite Norman Tebbit has said that he supports Liberal Democrat tax proposals oh and why Vince Cable is held in higher regard than George Osbourne.

A) Nuclear weapons are not our only form of defence
B) If attacked we wouldn't use them anyway
C) We have allies with over a hundred times as many Nuclear weapons than in Trident
D) There is no major threat to our national security, they are literally redundantNuclear weapons are our main form of defence it has to be said. Nuclear weapons serve as a deterrent if nothing else, we are a member of the UN Security Council and still very influential in international affairs, our military is still found throughout the world. Infact there has been the death of a British soldier abroad, every single year since 1945 other than one year. The reason we have no major problems with other countries or a threat is the fact we have a nuclear deterrent. It is very much a longterm plan and essential to the UK's security, just 25 years ago we were in the midst of the Cold War, no one would of predicted the situation we are in today. And we cannot predict what things will be like in 25 years. Trident cannot be made at the click of fingers, it has to be there serving as a deterrent constantly, who knows what the world will be like in 25 years. I have no doubt the Soviet Union would of attacked Europe had the UK and France not had nuclear weapons. There is a growing threat from China & Iran which is also notable.

I'm afraid the NHS would be useless when we are struck by nuclear weapons, it would only take a few to take out the whole of the UK. The deterrent ensures this will not happen and contributes to the reason there has been so much peace in the world since WWII believe it or not.

Just because Vince Cable might be held in higher regard (In your opinion) it does not mean he is right and George Osbourne is wrong? Thatcher is held in incredibly high regard it doesn't mean that everyone agreed with her.

The £6 Billion waste can be easily saved by stopping things like useless government IT Projects and excessive bureaucracy, and frankly if jobs go too I will be pleased, we are not going to pay off hundreds of billions of pounds of debt if jobs don't go. With the booming business sector under the Tories thanks to the tax cuts for small businesses (and larger ones), and making it attractive for international businesses, these people could easily find new unemployment due to the amount of new jobs created.

Nick Clegg has no idea over scrapping tuition fees, that's why it will take 6 years. He had to compromise with backbenchers who were disappointed to get rid of the "scrapping tuition fees" pledge. Scrapping tuition fees is completely ridiculous anyway, while it is ideal, with plans for 50% of 18 year-olds to go to University and lots taking micky mouse subjects it's unaffordable. Under the old system with polytechnics, it was affordable (I'm not suggesting we go back to this, simply stating it is totally unreasonable to scrap tuition fees for now)

[-:Undertaker:-]

thatll come under international affairs, which is on either SKY or BBC i can't remember. this was for soley domestic issues i believe.

and to answer the immigration and crime bit, we could improve our crime fighting if we were to co-operate more with european police, something that britain is very apprehensive about.

Well the issue is, they are ignoring the elephant in the room when talking about all of this because domestic affairs are now coming more and more under the control of the European Union. They talk about the economy when a Frenchman is coming to control the City of London and the EU is planning its own set of taxes, they talk about immigration but cannot control it without EU consent which is something they can not change and they talk about crime but cannot take any real action because the justice systems are controlled via Brussels. I'd also like to add, being a big defender of civil liberties on the face of it; why do you support European arrest warrants which defy habius corpos?

The debate itself, Clegg came off the best and Brown destroyed Cameron although be it quite rude. Cameron should of done it back, but if you look at it most are the same in policies and are failing to mention that as British Prime Minister none of them would have any real control as they are subject to what the EU and its unelected Commission and Courts want. The Trident issue with Clegg shows that a lot of people on here have no concept of international affairs and little knowledge that nuclear weapons will become more important. It would be lovely to have no nuclear weapons but you cannot un-invent something. The figure Nick Clegg gave I believe is wrong because the figure for Tridents renewal was at the £25 billion mark I believe and not the £100 billion mark (I have no idea where he got this figure from).

[Jordy]

Well I've just finished watching it finally and I'm pleasantly surprised. To conclude there was no winner to this debate, credit to Nick Clegg, he was by far the best speaker and very presentable, he seemed to portray the Lib Dems as a realistic party in with a chance (Although this really isn't the case), while I'm not surprised he won people over so easily by appearing so much better than Cameron & Brown, his policies are abysmal, not like that wasn't already known. Scrapping trident is a ridiculous idea but it's not going to save anywhere near as much money as it sounds, the £100bn figure is based on decades of spending, it's not going to materialise straight away. He didn't outline any other ways of saving money and cutting the debt, despite criticising Cameron for it, then goes on to say he could easily save £17bn from bureaucracy etc yet still cutting lots of taxes. He also faced no opposition over cuts. Then of course there is the fact he opposes nuclear power and wants to take money away from road improvements to reopen railway stations (Reversing the Beeching Cuts). I suspect the Conservatives & Labour will rapidly unravel the Lib Dem policies soon enough and the public will see them as the fools they really are.

Also credit to Brown, he delivered some decent blows to Cameron, sadly Cameron didn't seem to properly attack either Clegg or Brown and that's presumably why he came out of it so badly. Cameron seemed to consistently say the right things and has the best policies especially when it comes to Education & Health, sadly he didn't portray these particularly well but I think if people began questioning which leader they agreed with most, there would be a different outcome to this debate. Another downfall for the Conservatives was reformation of the House of Lords, Brown & Clegg seem to have the right ideas here.

Clegg was passionate, Cameron was overly serious and Brown was too smug.

[-:Undertaker:-]

If their figures are so wrong then please tell me why even the Thatcherite Norman Tebbit has said that he supports Liberal Democrat tax proposals oh and why Vince Cable is held in higher regard than George Osbourne.

The £10,000 policy - the policy that the Liberal Democrats only just adopted and the one that UKIP have had as policy since 2006?

To those so amazed at Liberal Democrat performance, maybe they should check out their policies;

- Build wind turbines and scrap nuclear power stations despite the fact its been proven as unfeesible.
- Join the euro currency and scrap the pound sterling which means the loss of monetary independence.
- Raise taxes on our brightest and best off which would mean many would leave (a brain drain).
- Scrap our independant nuclear missile system (Trident) despite it being the core of our national security.
- Relax immigration rules and asylum rules allowing an anmesty for asylum seekers here thus adding to our bills.

[jam666]

The £10,000 policy - the policy that the Liberal Democrats only just adopted and the one that UKIP have had as policy since 2006?

To those so amazed at Liberal Democrat performance, maybe they should check out their policies;

- Build wind turbines and scrap nuclear power stations despite the fact its been proven as unfeesible.
- Join the euro currency and scrap the pound sterling which means the loss of monetary independence.
- Raise taxes on our brightest and best off which would mean many would leave (a brain drain).
- Scrap our independant nuclear missile system (Trident) despite it being the core of our national security.
- Relax immigration rules and asylum rules allowing an anmesty for asylum seekers here thus adding to our bills.

Exactly. I cant actually understand why so many people were deluded by Nick Clegg. As usual with the left wing liberals (a.k.a labours little brother) they portray idealistic views which CANNOT be implemented. EVER.

The problem is that the vast majority of the public is mis-informed and largely go by what they seen on the debates rather than researching each partys policys. Of course they are free to form their own opinion but they need to be informed better (and unfortuneately it seems to be the younger undecided voters). Which is what i feel will happen over the coming week or so as finally some light has been shed on the liberals policy and people will see them for what they are.

However i honestly dont believe its fair for Nick Clegg to be shown in the same light as GB or DC, afterall there is not a chance in hell of this guy every becoming PM and if there was, god forbid what would happen to the country.

Its also VERY DANGEROUS territory now as it seems that there will be a HUNG PARLIAMENT. This is terrible for the country but of course the liberals will be jumping for joy as they will have a VERY SMALL taste of power because they will ultimately be the king makers. As a result i do honestly hope that there is a slim Conservative majority.

[United-Clowgon]

I thought it was quite intresting.

I thought Nick Clegg was amazing. I didn't take the Lib Dems seriously a few years back but i really like them now.

I think Gordon Brown did alright as well and if i could vote i would for vote Labour but the Lib Dems are coming across as a party that should be taken seriously now. It's always been between Labour and Cons for the past 20 years, so yeah, they should be given a chance.

Didn't like Cameron, he's just fake and some of his policy's like taking away 6 Billion away from the ecomony in these times would be very silly. It would effect jobs and would slow our weak current growth.

All through it as well he always said "I met someone in blah blah blah" which i found quite bliming irritating.

Merged by iAdam (Forum Super Moderator); Similar subject.

[Titch]

there's already like 2 threads on this, 1 in spam and 1 in current affairs, pop into current affairs and post this in the thread there because i am sure you'll get a better reaction & discussion :)

[Jordy]

I thought it was quite intresting.

I thought Nick Clegg was amazing. I didn't take the Lib Dems seriously a few years back but i really like them now.

I think Gordon Brown did alright as well and if i could vote i would for vote Labour but the Lib Dems are coming across as a party that should be taken seriously now. It's always been between Labour and Cons for the past 20 years, so yeah, they should be given a chance.

Didn't like Cameron, he's just fake and some of his policy's like taking away 6 Billion away from the ecomony in these times would be very silly. It would effect jobs and would slow our weak current growth.

All through it as well he always said "I met someone in blah blah blah" which i found quite bliming irritating.

Merged by iAdam (Forum Super Moderator); Similar subject.Lmao you got completely brainwashed, who says that we can't take 6 Billion out the economy? Gordon Brown and you believed him over everyone else, this is someone who continually lies to the public and Labour broke 27 policies since the last election. Pointlessly spending £6 Billion on bureaucracy and silly projects is going to stop another recession and pay off debts is it lol? If you were to research Lib Dem policies you would realise they are totally unworkable and Labour/Conservative policies are much better.

Also, all three leaders uses the 'I met someone speech', I think Clegg used it more than the others.

[MattFr]

Was just checking out some of the Lib Dem manifesto. One of their policies is to ban new nuclear power plants. This is incredibly naive as nuclear is the only solution for the future, and recent developments mean it is very safe and emits practically no emissions. Would a die-hard Lib Dem supporter like to explain how Britain keeps power when the world runs out of fossil fuels because there is no way wind and solar will be able to fulfil the capacity of a country?

[Jordy]

Was just checking out some of the Lib Dem manifesto. One of their policies is to ban new nuclear power plants. This is incredibly naive as nuclear is the only solution for the future, and recent developments mean it is very safe and emits practically no emissions. Would a die-hard Lib Dem supporter like to explain how Britain keeps power when the world runs out of fossil fuels because there is no way wind and solar will be able to fulfil the capacity of a country?They would rather spend money on windfarms which use an enormous amount of energy to manufacture in the first place. They also don't generate enough revenue to pay for themselves in their 25 year lifespan. Nuclear really is our only option.

This is coming from Alan Johnson, Home Secretary (Labour); “They are soft on crime, inept on asylum and bloody dangerous on national security.” - If Labour are saying things like that it really does show how bad the Lib Dems are :P

[Hitman]

They would rather spend money on windfarms which use an enormous amount of energy to manufacture in the first place. They also don't generate enough revenue to pay for themselves in their 25 year lifespan. Nuclear really is our only option.

This is coming from Alan Johnson, Home Secretary (Labour); “They are soft on crime, inept on asylum and bloody dangerous on national security.” - If Labour are saying things like that it really does show how bad the Lib Dems are :PIndeed. I thought the Lib Dems were good and Nick Clegg came across and a nice guy, but if they want to stop funding the Trident nuclear system and stop nuclear power plants then we're stuffed... we may never use the nuclear bomb/missile but it's a bloody good deterrent.

I now hope the Conservatives win.

[Wig44.]

Some misinformation on this page. Geothermal energy could power the entire would many times over. Right now geothermal energy could be used to produce one zJ of energy (double the amount of energy every country on earth uses). Trident is, in my opinion, a necessity.

Clegg won't win because of his policies to: Freeze public sector pay rises and in a double-whammy situation cut pensions. I personally also hate the fact that the Lib Dems wanted to join the euro zone and would be willing to completely pas the reigns of the UK over to the EU.