EU comes clean and admits 75%+ of all laws in Europe come from the EU

[-:Undertaker:-]

President of the European Parliament admits 75%+ of British law comes from the unelected European Union;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmK-f88gcx8&feature=player_embedded

Nigel Farage today on Channel 4 News using the same figures;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6x7uHLZrus


I came across this just before and i'm honestly really suprised and shocked that they've finally come clean and let the cat out of the bag that most British law is made by the unelected European Union for Britain as UKIP and Nigel Farage along with Peter Hitchens and various others have been saying for a long long time. It is now clear that the German government and senior EU officals are now claming around the 75%+ figure (which, as shown by the video will be much higher now that the self-amending Lisbon Treaty has been passed without anybody giving an opinion on it - well the French, Dutch and Irish did all say no but that was ignored).

Now Channel 4 have done a 'fact check' on this but have also included UK government stats (we know how trusty they are - not) and a European Labour Federalist (Richard Corbett) claims that less than 10% of our laws are made by the European Union which rubbishes the 'fact check' that Channel 4 have done because they have included these without investigating these claims in-depth - and not that Channel 4 would admit anyway that over 75% of our laws are made in Brussels because it would cause shockwaves if the public knew this and it was vertified by mainstream media.

So i'll finish by saying; it doesnt matter who you vote for in this election if they are pro-European Union because nothing will change as none of the main parties wish to leave the European Union. Even if you do not support UKIP policies, the BNP wish to leave the European Union and so do the Green Party of England and Wales as far as I know - not to forget that many other parties exist which also want the same. Herman Van Rompuy (the de facto unelected EU President) has also called for 'global governance' which you can find here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXWeOa-FuyM) if you wish to take a look at his speech, boring as it may be.

Thoughts, should over 75% of our laws be made in Brussels?

[Fez]

I will and always probably will support one of the smallest of 'serious' parties, The Pirate Party, but if I had to vote then it would be UKIP.

An EU superstate would have no benefits, and our full budget (correct me if I'm wrong) would be much less and the money made in the UK would not be spent within the UK.

Stupid voting system.

[alexxxxx]

If you actually knew what he was talking about - you'd know he was talking about the proportion of EU laws passed by the parliament.

http://www.straightstatistics.org/article/ukip-gets-its-facts-wrong-europe

read this blog post for heaven's sake.

oh wait it must be wrong because UKIP are gods.

it quotes this house of commons report: http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/briefings/snia-02888.pdf

when will UKIP stop lying?

[Jordy]

I will and always probably will support one of the smallest of 'serious' parties, The Pirate Party, but if I had to vote then it would be UKIP.

An EU superstate would have no benefits, and our full budget (correct me if I'm wrong) would be much less and the money made in the UK would not be spent within the UK.

Stupid voting system.I thought you were hardcore Liberal Democrat?

While I cannot stress this enough that we obviously should be concerned with the EU and in my opinion leave it, I do not care for the 75% figure. Of course they should not be making our laws etc, you will also find I agree with you on the EU. But you use this figure to claim that the UK Election is pointless as the EU makes our laws anyway? Bare in mind most the EU's laws are on things governing the size of vegetables and what chocolate is. The UK government still makes all the major laws in this country it has to be said, atleast 90% I would say. So while this figure should be used to flag up how big the EU is getting, when looking into it, it doesn't mean all that much.

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you actually knew what he was talking about - you'd know he was talking about the proportion of EU laws passed by the parliament.

http://www.straightstatistics.org/article/ukip-gets-its-facts-wrong-europe

read this blog post for heaven's sake.

oh wait it must be wrong because UKIP are gods.

it quotes this house of commons report: http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/briefings/snia-02888.pdf

when will UKIP stop lying?

He very clearly stated that it was 75% of all laws made in Europe - he didn't say the European Union, he said Europe as in the European member states of the European Union and with Lisbon that will reach 100% as the treaty is self-amending and we've already alex, had Herman Van Rompuy calling for economic government (most of that is being brought under EU control as we speak with the Frenchman who wants an end to Anglo-American economics). I mean, what on earth do these mini-nazis have to say for you to finally admit that they are building the superstate that you yourself have stated that you want?

One of the links you provided had a reference to the former Europe Minister Caroline Flint telling us that only 9.1% of laws come from the European Union despite the fact that Caroline sadly cannot be trusted over things like this when she was found out to have not read the Lisbon Treaty - the Europe Minister was telling the British people they didnt understand the Lisbon Treaty despite the fact she hadn't either, but it didnt matter did it because it still got voted through the House of Commons by the likes of her who are prepared to lie through their teeth to us and sign upto something they themselves dont even understand. The reports also which have lower numbers - do they include European legislation re-wrapped under the British flag and the thousands of directives/regulations that come from the European Union every week, they obviously do not otherwise the figure would be much higher. Tony Blair himself promised to cut down on the amount of legislation under his EU presidency, as Farage pointed out he did nothing but as it still amounted to thousands of pieces of legislation over the period of a few months. It is very clear European legislation outpaces British legislation, for instance you only have to work it out by the fact that the EU can directly force through regulations without consulting parliament (I have a good figure on that that I shall try and find as it has greatly outpaced the parliament now) whereas Westminister cannot. The European Union easily outpaces Westminister and the British government in terms of the output of regulation and its very clear to both work out and see.


Just under the 6-month presidency of Blair in 2005/6, 3,350 new legislative acts imposed on Europe by the EU.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grLmZGlzBW8


The Germans also did a study which came out at 84% all them years ago, Daniel Hannan the Conservative MEP has also used this figure and its likely the United Kingdom would be smaller around the 75% mark because we have at least some sovereignty remaining over our central bank and currency. On one hand you have the Germans saying 84% (all those years ago) and you have the President of the Parliament saying over 75% - on the other hand you have Caroline Flint and the British government (wading against a tide of eurosceptism) spouting figures such as 9.1% - who are you really going to believe?

Because after Iraq and various other government figure slip ups (immigration stats etc) its very hard to believe a word that comes from Westminister.


I thought you were hardcore Liberal Democrat?

While I cannot stress this enough that we obviously should be concerned with the EU and in my opinion leave it, I do not care for the 75% figure. Of course they should not be making our laws etc, you will also find I agree with you on the EU. But you use this figure to claim that the UK Election is pointless as the EU makes our laws anyway? Bare in mind most the EU's laws are on things governing the size of vegetables and what chocolate is. The UK government still makes all the major laws in this country it has to be said, atleast 90% I would say. So while this figure should be used to flag up how big the EU is getting, when looking into it, it doesn't mean all that much.

Our laws that we can make here still have to be fitted around the thousands of European Union regulations, as George Osborne himself stated 'we cannot do that because its illegal under EU law' - an elected British government cannot take action on sovereign British soil because of a foreign body forbidding it, now what kind of a 'democracy' or 'sovereign state' is that?. You yourself know your history; British Raj, Ukrainian SSR and various other nations such as those were mere puppet states because they had a country behind them pulling the strings.

If David Cameron was elected British Prime Minister he couldnt bring back the death penalty even 100% supported him, he would struggle to end the social policies of the EU on Britain because the EU would refuse to relenquish them, he would struggle to re-negociate the disasterous CAP policy because the French and the EU would simply say 'non', he would be powerless to stop any new direct regulations from the Commission and ECJ because European law now takes precedence over British law.

Pretending that we are somehow in control of this country anymore is just that, pretence.

[Fez]

I thought you were hardcore Liberal Democrat?


I was up until one of the Question Time blim blings. They wouldn't name the alternative to Trident, and they're not transparent enough to get my vote.

[LuketheDuke]

EU/British policy battering again, Undertaker you seriously sound like a broken record player.

The fact is its hard to make up such a stat, because you have to interpret certain European and British charters declaring what exactly is fundamental legislative policy and what is a by-product in producing such policy.

You say tomato, I say tomato. The argument goes around in circles.

More importantly theres an election on thursday

[-:Undertaker:-]

EU/British policy battering again, Undertaker you seriously sound like a broken record player.

The fact is its hard to make up such a stat, because you have to interpret certain European and British charters declaring what exactly is fundamental legislative policy and what is a by-product in producing such policy.

You say tomato, I say tomato. The argument goes around in circles.

More importantly theres an election on thursday

Even more importantly we have law being made in the European Union of which we cannot stop or change - vote whoever you wish on Thursday in the election, it wont stop the thousands of EU laws, rules and regulations coming from there and our politicians just refuse to admit it. These people have made clear their intentions, they want a European Superstate and they are not even afraid of airing it in public with Herman Van whatsisface calling for world governence - if we dont leave the European Union then there will not be a United Kingdom left to vote in. For example in the leaders debates, although they didnt admit it fully;- they cant actually do anything about immigration while we remain members of the European Union.

How is it right that we have unelected foreigners (mostly to the left side, many being ex-communists from the USSR) dictating what British law is?

[alexxxxx]

He very clearly stated that it was 75% of all laws made in Europe - he didn't say the European Union, he said Europe as in the European member states of the European Union and with Lisbon that will reach 100% as the treaty is self-amending and we've already alex, had Herman Van Rompuy calling for economic government (most of that is being brought under EU control as we speak with the Frenchman who wants an end to Anglo-American economics). I mean, what on earth do these mini-nazis have to say for you to finally admit that they are building the superstate that you yourself have stated that you want?

hahahahahahahahahaha it's not clear whatsoever what he's talking about because the video conveniently starts just as he says that.

from the blog post:


The reality is very different. The video clip UKIP shows is taken out of context. Herr Pottering’s speech actually refers to the power of the European Parliament in the setting of the EU as a whole.

In the full context of the former President’s speech, he is saying that the European Parliament legislates on 75 per cent of laws passed by the European Union. That is, the Parliament had a say in 75 per cent of the legislation that the Union, as an institution in itself, was making and not 75 per cent of the laws being made by each member state in the Union.



One of the links you provided had a reference to the former Europe Minister Caroline Flint telling us that only 9.1% of laws come from the European Union despite the fact that Caroline sadly cannot be trusted over things like this when she was found out to have not read the Lisbon Treaty - the Europe Minister was telling the British people they didnt understand the Lisbon Treaty despite the fact she hadn't either, but it didnt matter did it because it still got voted through the House of Commons by the likes of her who are prepared to lie through their teeth to us and sign upto something they themselves dont even understand. The reports also which have lower numbers - do they include European legislation re-wrapped under the British flag and the thousands of directives/regulations that come from the European Union every week, they obviously do not otherwise the figure would be much higher. Tony Blair himself promised to cut down on the amount of legislation under his EU presidency, as Farage pointed out he did nothing but as it still amounted to thousands of pieces of legislation over the period of a few months. It is very clear European legislation outpaces British legislation, for instance you only have to work it out by the fact that the EU can directly force through regulations without consulting parliament (I have a good figure on that that I shall try and find as it has greatly outpaced the parliament now) whereas Westminister cannot. The European Union easily outpaces Westminister and the British government in terms of the output of regulation and its very clear to both work out and see.

http://www.britishchambers.org.uk/6798219243077818908/BCC_report_Worlds_Apart.pdf

well this report (page 4) suggests that 30% of regulation comes from the EU and the rest from the UK.




Just under the 6-month presidency of Blair in 2005/6, 3,350 new legislative acts imposed on Europe by the EU.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grLmZGlzBW8


great.


The Germans also did a study which came out at 84% all them years ago, Daniel Hannan the Conservative MEP has also used this figure and its likely the United Kingdom would be smaller around the 75% mark because we have at least some sovereignty remaining over our central bank and currency. On one hand you have the Germans saying 84% (all those years ago) and you have the President of the Parliament saying over 75% - on the other hand you have Caroline Flint and the British government (wading against a tide of eurosceptism) spouting figures such as 9.1% - who are you really going to believe?

That's because GERMANY is a federal system and its own internal states make a large proportion of their own laws. So it is quite possible that at federal level it is possible that 84% were made by the EU. I believe FACTS and FIGURES not what is prejudged to be true.



Because after Iraq and various other government figure slip ups (immigration stats etc) its very hard to believe a word that comes from Westminister.

Not every report is done by westminster.




Our laws that we can make here still have to be fitted around the thousands of European Union regulations, as George Osborne himself stated 'we cannot do that because its illegal under EU law' - an elected British government cannot take action on sovereign British soil because of a foreign body forbidding it, now what kind of a 'democracy' or 'sovereign state' is that?. You yourself know your history; British Raj, Ukrainian SSR and various other nations such as those were mere puppet states because they had a country behind them pulling the strings.

If David Cameron was elected British Prime Minister he couldnt bring back the death penalty even 100% supported him, he would struggle to end the social policies of the EU on Britain because the EU would refuse to relenquish them, he would struggle to re-negociate the disasterous CAP policy because the French and the EU would simply say 'non', he would be powerless to stop any new direct regulations from the Commission and ECJ because European law now takes precedence over British law.

Pretending that we are somehow in control of this country anymore is just that, pretence.
For cameron to bring the DP back he'd have to pull out of the EU and CoE. If you have a common market you have to have common rules.

[-:Undertaker:-]

hahahahahahahahahaha it's not clear whatsoever what he's talking about because the video conveniently starts just as he says that.

from the blog post;


http://www.britishchambers.org.uk/6798219243077818908/BCC_report_Worlds_Apart.pdf

well this report (page 4) suggests that 30% of regulation comes from the EU and the rest from the UK.'..we would not be the legislator of 75% of all laws in Europe' - he is not saying within the European Union, he is saying very clearly infact that they legislate on 75% of all laws in Europe which is soon to be 100% with Lisbon - infact it can only mean that because Lisbon actually removes national vetoes in numerous areas and takes nation state powers away and hands them to the European Union. So he is right in saying that because Lisbon is self-amending and they have already moved to seize control of national economic powers and already have control of most of our social powers;- infact the only area they still really lack in is monetary and government budgets which they are already moving to secure by 'harmonising taxes' across the European Union.


That's because GERMANY is a federal system and its own internal states make a large proportion of their own laws. So it is quite possible that at federal level it is possible that 84% were made by the EU. I believe FACTS and FIGURES not what is prejudged to be true. If we are to go along that road then, the United Kingdom should be something rather similar to Germany with the Welsh Assembly, Scottish Parliament and Northern Irish Assembly all being devolved powers and being similary independent from Westminister just as the federal states of Germany have autonomy from the Federal government. These are facts and the fact is that the figures given by the German government are very comparable to the United Kingdom as they are both devolved in areas and are countries of a comparable size, the only real difference being that Germany has lost her monetary sovereignty whereas the United Kingdom has not.


Not every report is done by westminster. No not every report is done by Westminister, hence why I believe the German report more so. Anything to do with government in this country cannot be trusted and its figures cannot be trusted either, the political jest 'independent' inquires of the invasion of Iraq show this also.


For cameron to bring the DP back he'd have to pull out of the EU and CoE. If you have a common market you have to have common rules. Then he should pull out, just as the vast majority of the British people want to happen.

[alexxxxx]

'..we would not be the legislator of 75% of all laws in Europe' - he is not saying within the European Union, he is saying very clearly infact that they legislate on 75% of all laws in Europe which is soon to be 100% with Lisbon - infact it can only mean that because Lisbon actually removes national vetoes in numerous areas and takes nation state powers away and hands them to the European Union. So he is right in saying that because Lisbon is self-amending and they have already moved to seize control of national economic powers and already have control of most of our social powers;- infact the only area they still really lack in is monetary and government budgets which they are already moving to secure by 'harmonising taxes' across the European Union.

If we are to go along that road then, the United Kingdom should be something rather similar to Germany with the Welsh Assembly, Scottish Parliament and Northern Irish Assembly all being devolved powers and being similary independent from Westminister just as the federal states of Germany have autonomy from the Federal government. These are facts and the fact is that the figures given by the German government are very comparable to the United Kingdom as they are both devolved in areas and are countries of a comparable size, the only real difference being that Germany has lost her monetary sovereignty whereas the United Kingdom has not.

No not every report is done by Westminister, hence why I believe the German report more so. Anything to do with government in this country cannot be trusted and its figures cannot be trusted either, the political jest 'independent' inquires of the invasion of Iraq show this also.

Then he should pull out, just as the vast majority of the British people want to happen.

all you've done is prove that you won't listen to facts in this post. well done. :eusa_clap

[-:Undertaker:-]

all you've done is prove that you won't listen to facts in this post. well done. :eusa_clap

I have listened to the facts and its you whom is ignoring them, I have just said that that German study holds water and is comparable to the United Kingdom because of devolution - it was you who attempted to brush it aside by being up German federalism and now you refuse to reply to the points concerning devolution and how the figure does infact hold water and has weight behind it as Germany and the United Kingdom are comparable no matter how you attempt to make it out.

[MrPinkPanther]

As has been said several times the German system works completely differently to the British system. Parallels simply cannot be drawn. Every independent analysis that I have seen have put the figure under 30%, usually around the 10-20% mark. What you are saying is pure fiction because you don't know the context in which he says "Europe"

[-:Undertaker:-]

As has been said several times the German system works completely differently to the British system. Parallels simply cannot be drawn. Every independent analysis that I have seen have put the figure under 30%, usually around the 10-20% mark. What you are saying is pure fiction because you don't know the context in which he says "Europe"

And I have stated many times how the devolved British system is very comparable to the German federal system. The independent studies even at 10% are too high although we know the Liberal Democrats would be quite content with signing it all away and joining the euro regardless of what the public think (just like you abandoned your pledge on the Lisbon Treaty as a party). The former President of the Parliament clearly says Europe as referring to the nation states otherwise he would of said the European Union, afterall they are all such proud federalists there happy with their little unelected empire which hasnt had its audits checked for over a decade.

[alexxxxx]

http://cdu-europa.de/blog/2009/06/03/hans-gert-pottering-ruft-die-burgerinnen-und-burger-der-europaischen-union-auf-bei-den-wahlen-zum-europaischen-parlament-ihre-stimme-abzugeben/

translate into english and you'll see that what he says is that:


These elections determine the composition of the European Parliament in the next five years. Currently, the European Parliament will decide jointly with the Council of Ministers on 75% of European Union law and thus plays a direct impact on our daily lives. The higher the turnout, the less likely it is that distort the voting results of the election of extremist parties.

this does not mean in any way that 75% of all laws are from the EU. This means the 75% of the laws are legislated along with the parliament.

Please stop lying UKIP. There are dozens of news stories that back this up. Not to mention that this is a statement from almost a YEAR ago (just before the elections).

[Bun]

oh my god you still believe all this rubbish?

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://cdu-europa.de/blog/2009/06/03/hans-gert-pottering-ruft-die-burgerinnen-und-burger-der-europaischen-union-auf-bei-den-wahlen-zum-europaischen-parlament-ihre-stimme-abzugeben/

translate into english and you'll see that what he says is that:

this does not mean in any way that 75% of all laws are from the EU. This means the 75% of the laws are legislated along with the parliament.

Please stop lying UKIP. There are dozens of news stories that back this up. Not to mention that this is a statement from almost a YEAR ago (just before the elections).

How can and why would anybody believe the European Union?

I mean lets just use these two examples one of which it says it is transparent despite the fact it has not had its audits signed off for the last decade or more which means hundreds of billions of taxpayers money are potentially missing (most likely in the offshore bank accounts of the Commissioners and other senior EU officals). To add to this on the second point, lets quote this which comes from the mouth of one of the EUs architects, historian Arnold Torynbee.


We are at present working discreetly but with all our might to wrest this musterious political force called sovereignty out of the clutches of local national states, and all the time, we are denying with our lips what we are doing with our hands - because to impugn the sovereignty of local national states is still a hearsy.... Sovereignty will cease in fact is not in name to be a local affair.


Another one of the European Unions architects and senior officals was Jean Monnet, who, one month before Edward Heath was elected British Prime Minister, was briefed by Jean Monnet via letter along with the instructions of Toynbee and then set about forcing the British nation state into the European Union. Heath followed the orders of Monnet and Toynbee to the teeth which were to lie lie lie lie and lie some more if need be to impose their will on the people. He said time and time again that the EEC was no more than a trade association, a government White paper assured everyone that 'there is no question of any erosion of essential national sovereignty' - Heath later admitted in retirement that a European Superstate was on the cards and was planned and he knew it at the time.

This is no conspiracy, it has been cleverly done and now we are many many years ahead from the 1970s with on one hand, a German report saying 84% and on the other you are giving me links to government reports that state a mere 10% of our laws are made in Brussels, so you will see why I do not take much by these reports. The whole project has been very very cleverly engineered and by the time the only Prime Minister who opposed it realised it, the Europhile attack dogs had gone after her. Tony Blair himself also opposed the EEC and the European Union calling for our withdrawal, how strange that once entering Number 10 Downing Street his views changed overnight.

So between the European Union and British government VS UKIP and a German study, who do I believe?
UKIP.




oh my god you still believe all this rubbish?

Yes and its quite documented this is the plan [European superstate], unless you have evidence or quotes to say otherwise which I await in your reply.

[alexxxxx]

How can and why would anybody believe the European Union?

I mean lets just use these two examples one of which it says it is transparent despite the fact it has not had its audits signed off for the last decade or more which means hundreds of billions of taxpayers money are potentially missing (most likely in the offshore bank accounts of the Commissioners and other senior EU officals). To add to this on the second point, lets quote this which comes from the mouth of one of the EUs architects, historian Arnold Torynbee.


We are at present working discreetly but with all our might to wrest this musterious political force called sovereignty out of the clutches of local national states, and all the time, we are denying with our lips what we are doing with our hands - because to impugn the sovereignty of local national states is still a hearsy.... Sovereignty will cease in fact is not in name to be a local affair.

So you're quoting someone who died in 1975? Someone who died only 2 years after UK even joined - somehow is an architect of the EU. You are mad - honestly.




Another one of the European Unions architects and senior officals was Jean Monnet, who, one month before Edward Heath was elected British Prime Minister, was briefed by Jean Monnet via letter along with the instructions of Toynbee and then set about forcing the British nation state into the European Union. Heath followed the orders of Monnet and Toynbee to the teeth which were to lie lie lie lie and lie some more if need be to impose their will on the people. He said time and time again that the EEC was no more than a trade association, a government White paper assured everyone that 'there is no question of any erosion of essential national sovereignty' - Heath later admitted in retirement that a European Superstate was on the cards and was planned and he knew it at the time.

This is no conspiracy, it has been cleverly done and now we are many many years ahead from the 1970s with on one hand, a German report saying 84% and on the other you are giving me links to government reports that state a mere 10% of our laws are made in Brussels, so you will see why I do not take much by these reports. The whole project has been very very cleverly engineered and by the time the only Prime Minister who opposed it realised it, the Europhile attack dogs had gone after her. Tony Blair himself also opposed the EEC and the European Union calling for our withdrawal, how strange that once entering Number 10 Downing Street his views changed overnight.

So between the European Union and British government VS UKIP and a German study, who do I believe?
UKIP.




Yes and its quite documented this is the plan [European superstate], unless you have evidence or quotes to say otherwise which I await in your reply.
Please quote the reputable source where this information can be found - or has it all been deleted off the internet? Quotes lifted off conspiracy websites don't count.

So WHAT DOES IT TAKE to produce some sort of evidence that is somehow 'valid' for you? Is it something written in the mail/express cause I honestly think the press you read is screwing up your sense of reality. I give you some sort of decent evidence to support a claim, but it cannot be true because it is the EU and everything you say about the EU is always 100% correct even when it quite clearly isn't. UKIP supporters are quite clearly mad.

[Bun]

i'm not even religious but i am seriously considering praying for you.