Cameron makes offer to Lib Dems on government

[Hecktix]

David Cameron has announced he is prepared to talk to Nick Clegg about working together in a coalition Goverernment and are even saying that Lib Dem Cabinet seats are not out of the question.

Article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8667938.stm

[Ajthedragon]

Then they should take it. Labour shaded the Liberals out in the 70's. The liberals should have learnt from that mistake. They lost almost all of their voters.

[Hecktix]

I can't see any coalition working if I'm honest. I think we'll be voting again in 6 months.

[Smits]

I can't see any coalition working if I'm honest. I think we'll be voting again in 6 months.

yea same, each party will be power greedy.

[Hecktix]

yea same, each party will be power greedy.

Will be incredibly beneficial for the party which isn't involved in the coalition.

[Jordy]

Hmm I'd like this providing the Conservatives don't have to give up too much. Put a Liberal Democrat in the cabinet and introduce PR and I'd be happy with that, however I suspect the Liberal Democrats want to get their hands on the economy which would definitely worry me, and make all Conservatives votes useless in my opinion so I doubt the Conservatives will let it happen. However a Con/Lib government will no doubt upset lots of Lib Dem voters who voted Lib Dem to get the Tories out.

I think we'll end up with some ridiculous Lab/Lib government, with Gordon Brown remaining in power, the Liberal Democrats taking over lots of his cabinet and a few months or years of a frankly pathetic government. It's also worth noting a Lab/Lib coalition won't actually make a majority, just a bigger party that the Conservatives.

[today]

i can just see us voting again.

[Jordy]

i can just see us voting again.Nah not for a good few months, it's very possible they'll be another one this year but certainly not in the next 4 months or so because the outcome would be the same, it costs the state a lot and the political parties don't have the money to campaign either.

[StefanWolves]

Nah not for a good few months, it's very possible they'll be another one this year but certainly not in the next 4 months or so because the outcome would be the same, it costs the state a lot and the political parties don't have the money to campaign either.

the conservatives do

[Jordy]

the conservatives doIndeed, good ol' Lord Ashcroft.

[StefanWolves]

Anyway, looks asif we are going towards a Government with David Cameron at the helm...

[Fez]

Democracy?

[-:Undertaker:-]

The system is corrupt, I have heard that Tony Blair only got 22% of the electorates approval in 1997 yet became Prime Minister - and to think we call Zimbabwe and other nations corrupt. FPTP has to go.

We have the Liberal Democrats with 3/4 of Labours vote yet less than 1/4 share of seats in parliament (compared to Labours share).
We have the Conservatives with 36% yet have nearly 50% representation in parliament.
We have the Green Party with a mere 250,000 votes yet have a seat in parliament.
We have the BNP with 560,000 votes yet no representation in parliament.
We have UKIP with one million votes yet no seats in parliament.

[StefanWolves]

I agree, it's wrong, and isn't fair. It needs to change.

[MrPinkPanther]

The system is corrupt, I have heard that Tony Blair only got 22% of the electorates approval in 1997 yet became Prime Minister - and to think we call Zimbabwe and other nations corrupt. FPTP has to go.

We have the Liberal Democrats with 3/4 of Labours vote yet less than 1/4 share of seats in parliament (compared to Labours share).
We have the Conservatives with 36% yet have nearly 50% representation in parliament.
We have the Green Party with a mere 250,000 votes yet have a seat in parliament.
We have the BNP with 560,000 votes yet no representation in parliament.
We have UKIP with one million votes yet no seats in parliament.
I agree and it must be a condition in any agreement and I believe it will be. Nick is a firm advocate of STV although I believe he would accept AV+ also.

On another point your stats are bias. The Greens got closer to 300,000 votes than 250,000 and UKIP closer to 900,000 than 1 Million, you are just over exaggerating UKIPs vote compared to the Greens who recently won a seat (Quite rightly). I do agree that UKIP should have won some seats but so should the Green party.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I agree and it must be a condition in any agreement and I believe it will be. Nick is a firm advocate of STV although I believe he would accept AV+ also.

On another point your stats are bias. The Greens got closer to 300,000 votes than 250,000 and UKIP closer to 900,000 than 1 Million, you are just over exaggerating UKIPs vote compared to the Greens who recently won a seat (Quite rightly). I do agree that UKIP should have won some seats but so should the Green party.

If Nick Clegg does not do or push for proportional representation then he has not only lied to yourself and millions who voted for him, but he has also ruined the only chance in a generation for his party to get somewhere and stop this ridiculous voting system continuing - every vote should count. On my stats, they are roughly done and off the top of my head without looking at the exact polls so yeah they will be slightly wrong. The Green Party needs representation, so does UKIP and so does the BNP - any party which gets a amount of votes should be represented whether they are the communist party, monster raving loony party or the ku klux klan.

[jam666]

I strongly oppose ANY deal between Cameron and Clegg if Cameron gives way to some Lib Dem policys.

I would hope for a Conservative Minority government and the prospect of an election within the next year or so and then a new Conservative government can be elected with an overall MAJORITY.

[PaulMacC]

I strongly oppose ANY deal between Cameron and Clegg if Cameron gives way to some Lib Dem policys.

I would hope for a Conservative Minority government and the prospect of an election within the next year or so and then a new Conservative government can be elected with an overall MAJORITY.
I love how you think people are going to vote Conservative in a years time when they see how they govern in the next year with that minority government.

[jam666]

There are various forms of an Minority government. An ideal arrangement would be unoffical suport by the Lib Dems for the Conservatives.

However as unusual as this sounds i would love and HATE lab/lib/snp/pc/green etc coalition... This would be great for the Conservatives as it would fall apart within a year and the labour / lib dems would of self slaughtered themselves. However the biggest problem with this is electoral reform.

[Sharon]

I think the Lib Dems should take Camerons offer. We've seen what Labours like and to be honest I presonally can't stand Labour. I can see everyone re-voting though.

[Hitman]

If Nick Clegg does not do or push for proportional representation then he has not only lied to yourself and millions who voted for him, but he has also ruined the only chance in a generation for his party to get somewhere and stop this ridiculous voting system continuing - every vote should count. On my stats, they are roughly done and off the top of my head without looking at the exact polls so yeah they will be slightly wrong. The Green Party needs representation, so does UKIP and so does the BNP - any party which gets a amount of votes should be represented whether they are the communist party, monster raving loony party or the ku klux klan.
Couldn't agree more.

Let's see what happens, could get interesting.

[PaulMacC]

I think the Lib Dems should take Camerons offer. We've seen what Labours like and to be honest I presonally can't stand Labour. I can see everyone re-voting though.
I think your blaming everything on Labour becomes the economy has gone bad and things have happened. Let me tell you neither of the other parties would have did a better job and we'd still be sitting here the same

[Mathew]

Seriously just burst out laughing at the Mirror's latest image.. :P

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/may2010/8/2/main-election-sif-516828288.jpg (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/05/08/hung-parliament-david-cameron-gordon-brown-fight-for-lib-dem-deal-115875-22242615/)

[Fez]

If there was a Con-Lib coalition, would this still deny the prospect of electoral reform?

[jam666]

If there was a Con-Lib coalition, would this still deny the prospect of electoral reform?
Hopefully yes it would. Cameron is not for moving and Clegg will be hated by his party members if he doesnt get PR therefore i see a stalemate.

[MrPinkPanther]

Its not down to Clegg, its down to the party. I'm pretty sure a deal will not be accepted without Electoral reform otherwise I would imagine there would be a split within the party and a leadership challenge. Like it or not the Conservatives haven't got the mandate from the British people and would find it tremendously difficult to govern alone.

[Jordy]

Its not down to Clegg, its down to the party. I'm pretty sure a deal will not be accepted without Electoral reform otherwise I would imagine there would be a split within the party and a leadership challenge. Like it or not the Conservatives haven't got the mandate from the British people and would find it tremendously difficult to govern alone.You are right but the Lib Dems and Labour do not have a mandate to govern either. I'm not saying the Conservatives should just assume control (I encourage negotiations with the Lib Dems) but they are closer to a mandate than any other party it has to be said.

I was reading something earlier about how 77% of the country didn't choose the Liberal Democrats yet they get to choose who gets into power. Our system really is a mess :P

[jam666]

Its not down to Clegg, its down to the party. I'm pretty sure a deal will not be accepted without Electoral reform otherwise I would imagine there would be a split within the party and a leadership challenge. Like it or not the Conservatives haven't got the mandate from the British people and would find it tremendously difficult to govern alone.

Like it or not 77% of the british people did not vote for Nick Clegg but he is pushing ahead with PR?, he should be locked in a closet and let the big boys talk about issues that affect people. Its also ironic that Nick Clegg demands these things and expects them to be given to him on a silver lined plate when the Conservatives could clearly rule as a minority government.

The best result at the moment is a Lab/Lib coalition of which there will be another election within the year and then a Conservative government can be elected with a majority since it will be a landslide victory as the lib/lab coalition will of slaughtered themselves by then.

I may be Conservative but i pray for a LIB/LAB coalition :)

[-:Undertaker:-]

Like it or not 77% of the british people did not vote for Nick Clegg but he is pushing ahead with PR?, he should be locked in a closet and let the big boys talk about issues that affect people. Its also ironic that Nick Clegg demands these things and expects them to be given to him on a silver lined plate when the Conservatives could clearly rule as a minority government.

The best result at the moment is a Lab/Lib coalition of which there will be another election within the year and then a Conservative government can be elected with a majority since it will be a landslide victory as the lib/lab coalition will of slaughtered themselves by then.

I may be Conservative but i pray for a LIB/LAB coalition :)

We need electoral reform and Nick Clegg is right to push for it, the Conservative Party supports the FPTP system so it and its supporters should not complain when this sort of thing happens because it is a part of the FPTP system that they want to retain at all costs to keep their monopoly on power.

[jam666]

We need electoral reform and Nick Clegg is right to push for it, the Conservative Party supports the FPTP system so it and its supporters should not complain when this sort of thing happens because it is a part of the FPTP system that they want to retain at all costs to keep their monopoly on power.

It may seem like we want to keep our monopoly on power. But FPTP largely favours labour.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It may seem like we want to keep our monopoly on power. But FPTP largely favours labour.

It favours both the Labour Party and Conservative Party although granted it does favour the Labour Party more than the Conservatives. I am with Nick Clegg all the way in the sense that every vote should count and I dont see how any party claiming to be democratic can disgaree with that.

[MrPinkPanther]

You guys just shot yourself in the foot. You said 77% of the population did not choose Nick Clegg and electoral reform but seeing as: Labour, Liberal Democrats, UKIP, Greens and many more all advocate a referendum on electoral reform the Conservatives are in the minority on the topic are they not?

[Jordy]

You guys just shot yourself in the foot. You said 77% of the population did not choose Nick Clegg and electoral reform but seeing as: Labour, Liberal Democrats, UKIP, Greens and many more all advocate a referendum on electoral reform the Conservatives are in the minority on the topic are they not?I specifically said 77% of the country did not pick the Lib Dems therefore our system is wrong if they get to choose the who gets into power. I'm not blaming the Lib Dems for that seeing as it's how our system works.

But to be fair Labour only began supporting electoral reform after the Exit Polls came in. There's nothing in their manifesto supporting it so when people voted Labour, they weren't voting for electoral reform. At least 65.1% of the public did not vote for electoral reform therefore.

[jam666]

You guys just shot yourself in the foot. You said 77% of the population did not choose Nick Clegg and electoral reform but seeing as: Labour, Liberal Democrats, UKIP, Greens and many more all advocate a referendum on electoral reform the Conservatives are in the minority on the topic are they not?

77% of the population did not vote for Nick Clegg. FACT. Whilst the Conservatives may seem like the minority party in this, the same could be said for the Lib Dems and their amnesty on illegal immigrants therefore your point has no basis. However most of the other partys want PR so that they will have more power which is quite a selfish reason to support it. You could counter this by saying some votes dont count and yes i agree with that but the minority partys only want PR so they are more powerful.

You can say the Conservatives support FPTP as they will be better off but in reality FPTP largely favours labour so this point has no basis either.

Quite frankly im appaled by Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrats as 77% of the population did not vote for them but they are practically holding the country to randsome over PR?. Sorry this is plain selfish and someone should tell him to go hide in a closet, lock the door and then throw away the key and let the big boys rectify the current situation. Who on earth do they think they are demanding certain policys etc when the Conservative Party WON the egeneral election and therefore could simply form a minority government without the lib dems so they should be thankful that they are atleast being given an opportunity.

Im also appalled at the posibility of Lib Dem Cabinet position as the most unstable feature about a coalition government is the lib dems themselves. Plus 82% of the Conservative party do not want to work with the lib dems and therefore no cabinet positions should be given.

[-:Undertaker:-]

In my idea of democracy and the broad idea of democracy, over 50% of the electorate should choose a government - with FPTP this does not happen and it is wrong. Nick Clegg may not have been choosen by the electorate but neither was David Cameron because he himself only got a 36% slice of the vote yet would recieve around 50% of the seats in the House of Commons which goes to show, this system is not right and I hope to god that Nick Clegg forces them (Conservatives or Labour) to accept proportional representation.

[MrPinkPanther]

I specifically said 77% of the country did not pick the Lib Dems therefore our system is wrong if they get to choose the who gets into power. I'm not blaming the Lib Dems for that seeing as it's how our system works.

But to be fair Labour only began supporting electoral reform after the Exit Polls came in. There's nothing in their manifesto supporting it so when people voted Labour, they weren't voting for electoral reform. At least 65.1% of the public did not vote for electoral reform therefore.
No, Labour have proposed a referendum on AV for the past few months. A YouGov Poll this week showed that 62% of the population want a more proportional electoral system. What does that tell you?


77% of the population did not vote for Nick Clegg. FACT.
The vast majority of people voted for parties that support some form of electoral reform. FACT.


Whilst the Conservatives may seem like the minority party in this, the same could be said for the Lib Dems and their amnesty on illegal immigrants therefore you point has no basis.
Please indicate where Nick Clegg or indeed anyone has said he will include an amnesty on illegal immigrants in the negotiations. Therefore that is completely irrelevant. I accept that the vast majority of people didn't vote for parties with that policy which is why it isn't being adopted.


77% of the population did not vote for Nick Clegg. FACT. Whilst the Conservatives may seem like the minority party in this, the same could be said for the Lib Dems and their amnesty on illegal immigrants therefore you point has no basis. However most of the other partys want PR so that they will have more power which is quite a selfish reason to support it. You could counter this by saying some votes dont count and yes i agree with that but the minority partys only want PR so they are more powerful.
So you are saying having A true democracy is selfish? Boy are you naive. The Conservatives want to keep FPTP to preserve their seats, under PR there would be no safe seats. Under FPTP it essentially guarantees that either the Conservatives or Labour will get in and usually with a Majority which is why they wish to keep it.


Im also appalled at the posibility of Lib Dem Cabinet position as the most unstable feature about a coalition government is the lib dems themselves. Plus 82% of the Conservative party do not want to work with the lib dems and therefore no cabinet positions should be given.
A) Its not the Liberal Democrats asking for Cabinet positions
B) Where did this "82% stat" come from?

[jam666]

The vast majority of people voted for parties that support some form of electoral reform. FACT.

FICTION. You are simply WRONG. 65.1% of people voted for the Conservatives and Labour(which did not support any form of voting reform until after the exit polls) therefore 34.9% of people voted for partys who want electoral reform. This shows that the vast majority of people did not vote for any kind of electoral reform.



Please indicate where Nick Clegg or indeed anyone has said he will include an amnesty on illegal immigrants in the negotiations. Therefore that is completely irrelevant. I accept that the vast majority of people didn't vote for parties with that policy which is why it isn't being adopted.

I did not say that Nick Clegg wants to include an amnesty on illegal immigrants. I was simply showing that the Conservatives may be the minority party in supporting FPTP but the liberals are the MINORITY in supporting an illegal immigrant amnesty.


So you are saying having A true democracy is selfish? Boy are you naive. The Conservatives want to keep FPTP to preserve their seats, under PR there would be no safe seats. Under FPTP it essentially guarantees that either the Conservatives or Labour will get in and usually with a Majority which is why they wish to keep it.

No, what im saying is selfish is the fact that nick clegg is demanding PR and practically holding the country to randsome when he DID NOT win the general election and therefore is in no position to demand anything. Its a matter of fact that you are naive as if you actually researched the matter you would see that FPTP largely favours LABOUR.



A) Its not the Liberal Democrats asking for Cabinet positions
B) Where did this "82% stat" come from?

You know little about the subject when there have been rumours for DAYS indicating that the liberals were going to get 3 cabinet positions. The 82% figure is FACT. If you watch sky news there have been polls all day showing that 82% of the Conservative Party do not want any form of coalition with the lib dems.

[MrPinkPanther]

FICTION. You are simply WRONG. 65.1% of people voted for the Conservatives and Labour(which did not support any form of voting reform until after the exit polls) therefore 34.9% of people voted for partys who want electoral reform. This shows that the vast majority of people did not vote for any kind of electoral reform.
NO. You are wrong. Labour have advocated AV for months AND it IS in their manifesto. Additionally as I have said the YouGov independent poll shows that the vast majority of people are pro-reform.


I did not say that Nick Clegg wants to include an amnesty on illegal immigrants. I was simply showing that the Conservatives may be the minority party in supporting FPTP but the liberals are the MINORITY in supporting an illegal immigrant amnesty.
He is a minority in supporting the amnesty just like Cameron is a minority in supporting FPTP, we aren't having the amnesty so why keep FPTP?



No, what im saying is selfish is the fact that nick clegg is demanding PR and practically holding the country to randsome when he DID NOT win the general election and therefore is in no position to demand anything. Its a matter of fact that you are naive as if you actually researched the matter you would see that FPTP largely favours LABOUR.
Did I say that it didn't favour Labour over the Tories? NO. It does however favour both Labour AND the Tories over everyone else because it discounts and essentially wastes all their votes. It keeps the constant rotation of Labour and Tory governments which is why the Tories are so eager to keep it.


You know little about the subject when there have been rumours for DAYS indicating that the liberals were going to get 3 cabinet positions.
I'm sorry but me? Know little about the Liberal Democrats? Oh you fool. Perhaps you should re-read my post. The Liberal Democrats never demanded 3 cabinet seats, they were offered them by the Conservatives in order to entice them away from Labour. Most people do not expect a formal coalition and do not expect the Liberal Democrats to take these positions but alas only time will tell.


The 82% figure is FACT. If you watch sky news there have been polls all day showing that 82% of the Conservative Party do not want any form of coalition with the lib dems.
Sky News? The very people that reported David Cameron won the first leaders debate in their polls and then just an Hour later reported that Nick Clegg had won? Oh please. Seriously. Stop saying things are facts when they clearly are not.

[jam666]

NO. You are wrong. Labour have advocated AV for months AND it IS in their manifesto. Additionally as I have said the YouGov independent poll shows that the vast majority of people are pro-reform.

You are dismissing the figures i previously posted as you fail to admit the truth that you only want PR so your small minority party which represents 23% of the electorate can have a taste of power after over a century in the wilderness? Please, look whos getting desperate.



He is a minority in supporting the amnesty just like Cameron is a minority in supporting FPTP, we aren't having the amnesty so why keep FPTP?

Oh dear.. someone forgot to read the Liberal Democrat manifesto. Im a Conservative supporter but i know more about the lib-dem manfiesto than a liberal democrat?, something is slightly wrong here. Its clear that the amnesty on illegal immigrants is in your manifesto so please read it. You also stated yourself in a previous post that it was part of their manifesto but admitted it was not to be included in the current debates over a new coalition goverment.



Did I say that it didn't favour Labour over the Tories? NO. It does however favour both Labour AND the Tories over everyone else because it discounts and essentially wastes all their votes. It keeps the constant rotation of Labour and Tory governments which is why the Tories are so eager to keep it.

Next time please use a better choice of words as you IMPLIED that it did by failing to mention Labour and simply having an attack on the Conservatives. FPTP favours labour as there are many smaller constituancys within towns and citys which labour hold, but conservatives hold large rural constituancys and this is why the system at the moment favours LABOUR.


I'm sorry but me? Know little about the Liberal Democrats? Oh you fool. Perhaps you should re-read my post. The Liberal Democrats never demanded 3 cabinet seats, they were offered them by the Conservatives in order to entice them away from Labour. Most people do not expect a formal coalition and do not expect the Liberal Democrats to take these positions but alas only time will tell.

You need to re-read MY post as i clearly never said they demanded 3 cabinet seats so please stop implying that i had. The Conservatives never offered them 3 cabinet seats either, its simply rumours so therefore cant be used as an enticement bargain and as far as members of the conservative party are concerned your welcome to snuggle up to your bigger brother labour and have fun self slaughtering yourselves over the course of the next year of which a new general election will be called and then the Conservatives can stroll right in with a majority when the great british public realise what a mess left-centre governments leave the country in.


Sky News? The very people that reported David Cameron won the first leaders debate in their polls and then just an Hour later reported that Nick Clegg had won? Oh please. Seriously. Stop saying things are facts when they clearly are not.

I watched Sky News during the first leaders debate and they clearly said that nick clegg won from the very beginning with 51% of the vote therefore you are WRONG again. Please stop denying the FACT that 82% of the Conservative party would not like a Con/Lib coalition as it is a FACT. Are you a Conservative party member?. No, i thought not because if you were you would of also recieved an email earlier today confirming this!.

[MrPinkPanther]

You are dismissing the figures i previously posted as you fail to admit the truth that you only want PR so your small minority party which represents 23% of the electorate can have a taste of power after over a century in the wilderness? Please, look whos getting desperate.
WHAT STATISTIC? My party is a minority party but thats irrelevant? The vote for electoral reform is a great deal larger than that against it which is why PR should be pushed in negotiations. The government represents the public, that is their function. If the public wants it then it should be put into place.


Oh dear.. someone forgot to read the Liberal Democrat manifesto. Im a Conservative supporter but i know more about the lib-dem manfiesto than a liberal democrat?, something is slightly wrong here. Its clear that the amnesty on illegal immigrants is in your manifesto so please read it. You also stated yourself in a previous post that it was part of their manifesto but admitted it was not to be included in the current debates over a new coalition goverment.
Well you forgot to read my post. Idiot. I clearly stated that the amnesty is not being implemented because it has not gained popular support, electoral reform on the other hand has. If you can provide me with statistics that show that the Conservatives won more votes than Labour, the Liberal Democrats, UKIP, Green party etc combined then I may agree with you. The government is supposed to represent the British people, as I keep saying with the YouGov poll which you have completely ignored, the British people want electoral reform.


Next time please use a better choice of words as you IMPLIED that it did by failing to mention Labour and simply having an attack on the Conservatives. FPTP favours labour as there are many smaller constituancys within towns and citys which labour hold, but conservatives hold large rural constituancys and this is why the system at the moment favours LABOUR.
I never said it didn't favour Labour you just jumped to conclusions. I am fully aware of the electoral system and it undoubtedly favours Labour and the Conservatives over all other parties as I have repeatedly said.



You need to re-read MY post as i clearly never said they demanded 3 cabinet seats so please stop implying that i had. The Conservatives never offered them 3 cabinet seats either, its simply rumours so therefore cant be used as an enticement bargain and as far as members of the conservative party are concerned your welcome to snuggle up to your bigger brother labour and have fun self slaughtering yourselves over the course of the next year of which a new general election will be called and then the Conservatives can stroll right in with a majority when the great british public realise what a mess left-centre governments leave the country in.
So you are admitting that your party is at fault.?



I watched Sky News during the first leaders debate and they clearly said that nick clegg won from the very beginning with 51% of the vote therefore you are WRONG again. Please stop denying the FACT that 82% of the Conservative party would not like a Con/Lib coalition as it is a FACT. Are you a Conservative party member?. No, i thought not because if you were you would of also recieved an email earlier today confirming this!.
Thats odd, you seem to be seeing a completely different TV programme to me and everyone else. In fact John Prescott has tweeted about the poll several times. How very strange. Also you can't definitively say that "82% of the Conservative party" want this, it's not a fact at all. Its a sample of a small proportion of the party and judging by Sky News' Polls in the past it won't be very accurate.

[jam666]

WHAT STATISTIC? My party is a minority party but thats irrelevant? The vote for electoral reform is a great deal larger than that against it which is why PR should be pushed in negotiations. The government represents the public, that is their function. If the public wants it then it should be put into place.

This is the third attempt now and you seem to be unable to calculate basic maths. Up until the night of the election when an exit poll was released the labour party did not officially support electoral reform, they simply said that it will LOOK into it. However after the exit poll was released (which was VERY accurate) they changed their tune and vowed for reform to entice the lib dems. Therefore up until that point labour supporters did not vote labour for electoral reform.

Here are the calculations: 36.1% Conservative + 29% Labour = 65.1% which is the MAJORITY of the british people and they did NOT vote for electoral reform.


Well you forgot to read my post. Idiot. I clearly stated that the amnesty is not being implemented because it has not gained popular support, electoral reform on the other hand has. If you can provide me with statistics that show that the Conservatives won more votes than Labour, the Liberal Democrats, UKIP, Green party etc combined then I may agree with you. The government is supposed to represent the British people, as I keep saying with the YouGov poll which you have completely ignored, the British people want electoral reform.

No, electoral reform has not. So please stop stating this point as it is fundamentally flawed. Im sorry but your clearly the idiot here who seems to think that every single person who voted for UKIP, GREEN, LIB DEM, BNP and whoever else went out and voted for them because of PR as the truth is THEY DIDNT.



I never said it didn't favour Labour you just jumped to conclusions. I am fully aware of the electoral system and it undoubtedly favours Labour and the Conservatives over all other parties as I have repeatedly said.

You have still failed to address my point by repeating yourself yet again even though i clearly outlined why FPTP CLEARLY FAVOURS LABOUR over the Conservatives. You, your party and other minority partys simply want PR so they can have a taste of power after over a century of exclusion from government. Im telling you now IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.


So you are admitting that your party is at fault.?

You are on a different planet as i never said anything of the sort i was outlining the opinions and beliefs of the majority of the Conservative Party. Is there something you dont understand about RUMOURS? it means that they are not FACT which entails that they have not being PROVEN.



Thats odd, you seem to be seeing a completely different TV programme to me and everyone else. In fact John Prescott has tweeted about the poll several times. How very strange. Also you can't definitively say that "82% of the Conservative party" want this, it's not a fact at all. Its a sample of a small proportion of the party and judging by Sky News' Polls in the past it won't be very accurate.

Oh im sorry but judging by what you have just said, your YouGov poll cannot definately say that 62% of people want PR. John Prescott can scream and squark all he wants hes not even an MP anymore. I watched Sky News myself and you can go to their website and LOOK UP the first debate and READ what they said and that was that NICK CLEGG won by 51% of the vote so do not start twisitng things.

The 82% figure was NOT FROM SKY NEWS!. I am an OFFICIAL member of the Conservative Party and recieved an EMAIL with the results of the poll of which we were asked about a few days ago. Unfortunately your not and therefore have no right to comment on whether or not the poll was legit. As a result it is a FACT which cannot be disputed as all CURRENT MEMBERS of the Conservative party were asked and the results of the poll were posted.

[MrPinkPanther]

This is the third attempt now and you seem to be unable to calculate basic maths. Up until the night of the election when an exit poll was released the labour party did not officially support electoral reform, they simply said that it will LOOK into it. However after the exit poll was released (which was VERY accurate) they changed their tune and vowed for reform to entice the lib dems. Therefore up until that point labour supporters did not vote labour for electoral reform.

Here are the calculations: 36.1% Conservative + 29% Labour = 65.1% which is the MAJORITY of the british people and they did NOT vote for electoral reform.
For Gods sake, read what I said. It IS in their 2010 Manifesto and always has been.
http://senateforbritain.org/blog/2010/04/12/labour-manifesto-pledge-on-lords-referendum-by-2011/


No, electoral reform has not. So please stop stating this point as it is fundamentally flawed. Im sorry but your clearly the idiot here who seems to think that every single person who voted for UKIP, GREEN, LIB DEM, BNP and whoever else went out and voted for them because of PR as the truth is THEY DIDNT.

NO but your argument has been throughout this thread that people voted Conservative and therefore do not want electoral reform. I am simply using your prerogative. You cannot have it both ways.



You have still failed to address my point by repeating yourself yet again even though i clearly outlined why FPTP CLEARLY FAVOURS LABOUR over the Conservatives. You, your party and other minority partys simply want PR so they can have a taste of power after over a century of exclusion from government. Im telling you now IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
ONCE AGAIN CAN YOU NOT READ WHAT I HAVE SAID?

Did I say that it didn't favour Labour over the Tories? NO. It does however favour both Labour AND the Tories over everyone else because it discounts and essentially wastes all their votes. It keeps the constant rotation of Labour and Tory governments which is why the Tories are so eager to keep it.
It favours Labour over the Tories but that doesn't stop it from favouring the Tories over every other non-Labour party. Whilst FPTP is in place there will be an endless rotation of Conservative and Labour governments which is why the Tories are so eager to keep it.



You are on a different planet as i never said anything of the sort i was outlining the opinions and beliefs of the majority of the Conservative Party. Is there something you dont understand about RUMOURS? it means that they are not FACT which entails that they have not being PROVEN.
You can't say its the views of the majority of the Conservative party because you don't know that.



Oh im sorry but judging by what you have just said, your YouGov poll cannot definately say that 62% of people want PR.
I've said the latest YouGov poll shows that 62% of people want PR. I have not definitively said 62% of people want PR because that is wrong unless you poll every person in the country. You on the other hand said "82% of Conservatives are against it. FACT."


I watched Sky News myself and you can go to their website and LOOK UP the first debate and READ what they said and that was that NICK CLEGG won by 51% of the vote so do not start twisitng things.
Well you were obviously watching something different to everyone else because its well known that they changed the results after.


The 82% figure was NOT FROM SKY NEWS!. I am an OFFICIAL member of the Conservative Party and recieved an EMAIL with the results of the poll of which we were asked about a few days ago. Unfortunately your not and therefore have no right to comment on whether or not the poll was legit. As a result it is a FACT which cannot be disputed as all CURRENT MEMBERS of the Conservative party were asked and the results of the poll were posted.
I've been hoping you'd say this. My Brother works for the Conservative party and a local right wing think tank and I just had a little chat with him, no such poll exists. He says Conservative HQ are keeping stum about reception towards the Liberal Democrats at the moment from fear of jeopardising a coalition. Care to explain?

[jam666]

For Gods sake, read what I said. It IS in their 2010 Manifesto and always has been.
http://senateforbritain.org/blog/2010/04/12/labour-manifesto-pledge-on-lords-referendum-by-2011/


Oh dear, were still not getting anywhere. Of course it been a well known fact that labour want PR for the lords but were talking about the commons here and that page makes absolutely no mention whatsoever on a potential voting system change for the commons.


NO but your argument has been throughout this thread that people voted Conservative and therefore do not want electoral reform. I am simply using your prerogative. You cannot have it both ways.


Im simply having it one way and that is that the people who voted Conservative do NOT want electoral reform as it was not featured in their manifesto and is opposed by the Conservative party therefore all of the voters who did vote for the Conservatives did NOT vote for electoral reform, they instead voted for political reform which are two entirely different things


ONCE AGAIN CAN YOU NOT READ WHAT I HAVE SAID?


Of course I can read what you said and I gave an appropriate response, but have you ever thought about the people who vote conservative but still have a lib or lab MP?, therefore your saying their vote is wasted too, which I agree is but at the end of the day its our electoral system which has elected credible parliaments for decades. The movement for PR only exists for selfish reason from the minority party's.


You can't say its the views of the majority of the Conservative party because you don't know that.


I do. Every single member of the Conservative party was polled and the result was that 82% of Conservatives are against a coalition with the Lib Dems and would much prefer a minority government. Not the people who voted conservative as they might not be conservative party members. They are two entirely different groups of people.



I've said the latest YouGov poll shows that 62% of people want PR. I have not definitively said 62% of people want PR because that is wrong unless you poll every person in the country. You on the other hand said "82% of Conservatives are against it. FACT."

Hang on a minute, your basically just repeating what I said about your figures earlier on. True I said 82% of conservatives are against it FACT because it is a FACT but you can not say anything about the yougov poll implying that it is fact and then come out a few hours later and state exactly what I said about your post earlier on.


Well you were obviously watching something different to everyone else because its well known that they changed the results after.


Yeah im sure my tv wasnt even switched on and therefore cannot possibly comment on the result of the first poll?. I watched it and the instant poll of which sky news agreed with IMMEDIATELY after the first debate was 51%. if you disagree with me then look it up but im simply stating what sky news have stated from the very beginning.



I've been hoping you'd say this. My Brother works for the Conservative party and a local right wing think tank and I just had a little chat with him, no such poll exists. He says Conservative HQ are keeping stum about reception towards the Liberal Democrats at the moment from fear of jeopardising a coalition. Care to explain?


I'd love to explain. Im all for political variation within family's but your situation seems a little too extreme. I myself and other party members were discussing this email in depth at local office today ( I volunteer a few days a week ) and it was very interesting because the poll reflected our opinions on a party wide basis.


However Conservative HQ are not keeping stum about the reception towards the lib dems as they already know the party wide persona of the lib dems and therefore have no chance of jeopardising a potential coalition. Why do you think they polled party members anyway? Ill tell you why and that is to make sure there wont be any jeopardising of a potential coalition as a result of Conservative party members.