Prisoner's rights... has it gone a bit too far?

[Hecktix]

I read the article below in my local newspaper yesterday and I have to say I was quite appalled at what this guy was saying. Infact, I was quite shocked they get so much digital TV anyway.

Should prisoners have these kinds of luxuries at all?


Child porn pervert wants more choice from digital TV channels in prison

http://i.thisis.co.uk/275584/article/images/2143300/1560219.jpg Kevin Skaith.



A twice jailed child porn pervert from Lincoln has made a complaint about the choice of digital TV channels in prison.
Kevin Skaith, 43, the former publisher of The Lincolnshire Gazette, is banged up at HMP Whatton, in Nottingham.
He was last year jailed for three-and-a-half years after he admitted possessing 119,688 child porn images and nine counts of making indecent photos of children.
Skaith, formerly of Thonock Close, Lincoln, was previously jailed for three-and-a-half years in May 2005 after downloading 70,000 indecent images of children from the internet.
http://iad.anm.co.uk/house/1x1.GIF
Now the Echo has seen a letter penned by Skaith to the prisoners' national newspaper insidetime.
Skaith, who is on the sex offenders' register for life, complains that he is not interested in the current choice of "soap, sex and sport" beamed into cells on digital television.
He says this is designed to "keep the noisier element happy" with a diet of EastEnders, football and raunchy movies and music videos.
Instead, he wrote from his cell he wanted access to UKTV channel Yesterday – formerly UK History – BBC4 and the BBC Parliament channel.
Earlier this year the Ministry of Justice confirmed that as part of the digital migration programme prisoners would have access to the five terrestrial channels, as well as Sky Sports News, ITV3, Film 4 and The Music Factory.
"There are several available channels that meet the criterion of being 'educational', and would be welcomed by the 'non-average criminal'," Skaith wrote.
"As a prisoner who picks up a book rather than a TV remote, I would welcome a channel like Yesterday or BBC4.
"And surely the inclusion of BBC Parliament into a system that offers limited choice would increase the likelihood of MPs' work being viewed and, ultimately, their contributions to the country acknowledged.
"It would appear that the introduction of digital TV to the prison estate is to be targeted at the stereotypical convict, whose sole interests consist of sport, soap and sex."

[Black_Apalachi]

Apparently they also get XBOXs. If this means every cell has a TV in it, that's one big waste of money right there for a start.

[HotelUser]

He was caught making child pornography and only got three years:S

I don't think they should get TV or computers at all. Books, newspapers and playing chess with there other inmates is about all they really deserve to be able to do!

[Black_Apalachi]

Once when I was a school, some prison officers came in to give us a talk on what prison is like. I'm sure they must have been making it all up to scare us because they made it sound absolutely awful and there was no mention of TVs or any other luxuries.

[GommeInc]

I always pictured prisons as having one huge dining hall with one medium sized (22" - 32") TV on a post where you can watch television :/ This is all they need, they lost many liberties the moment they committed any crimes. If anything, luxuries should be reserved for rehabilition prisons where an individual is violent or just generally a criminal due to some sort of mental stress or trauma, to keep them out of the public face and have them recover in a safe and relatively comfortable environment. Violent crimes with intent by individuals should just be locked up and given little choice in entertainment. Heck, quite lot of 3 or 4 star hotels do not get these sorts of luxuries :/ And 5 star hotels by default do not even have Xboxs :/

[immense]

I think you lot are making it sound like it's welcoming or some sort of hotel. Personally, I don't think so, no. They've lost the only thing worth living for - freedom. The fact they can't see their family whenever they want, they can't walk their dog, they can't take their kids to the park. That punishment is sufficient enough as far as I'm concerned. I think the media blow things out of all proportion and forget far too easily that prison is not a nice place to be. If they have TVs then so be it.

[ifuseekamy]

Prisons should have the bare minimum. There are people out there who, yes despite having freedom, will probably never afford things like Xboxes or Sky+ and whatnot. Taxes should be set aside for far worthier causes and people than some old pervert whining about his human rights being infringed because he doesn't have his favourite TV channel available.

[immense]

What else are they going to do though, they can't literally be expected to walk around the prison or sit in their cell all day.

[Inseriousity.]

I think you lot are making it sound like it's welcoming or some sort of hotel. Personally, I don't think so, no. They've lost the only thing worth living for - freedom. The fact they can't see their family whenever they want, they can't walk their dog, they can't take their kids to the park. That punishment is sufficient enough as far as I'm concerned. I think the media blow things out of all proportion and forget far too easily that prison is not a nice place to be. If they have TVs then so be it.

This. TV is a reward for being good in the prison I believe and then they only get half an hour or an hour? The rest is doing little jobs around the prison, exercise. Doesn't sound like my idea of fun tbh.

[immense]

We're so fantastic and forgiving, Mike.

[Richie]

I think prison now days is a piss-take it needs to be more strict, no tvs, no pool, afterall they are there for committing a crime. They need to be more strict.

[immense]

I think prison now days is a piss-take it needs to be more strict, no tvs, no pool, afterall they are there for committing a crime. They need to be more strict.

What exactly do you want them to do?!

[Mathew]

You would seriously go insane if you had no luxuries at all. A prison full of "satisfied" prisoners is better than a prison full of insane ones.

Still, I think they should be encouraged to read more literature rather than watch TV.

[immense]

You would seriously go insane if you had no luxuries at all. A prison full of "satisfied" prisoners is better than a prison full of insane ones.

Still, I think they should be encouraged to read more literature rather than watch TV.
Which is like asking foundation children to understand quadratics.

[Mathew]

Which is like asking foundation children to understand quadratics.

Encouraged to.. so have more lessons on it. I know my form tutor goes in to prisons to teach English every month or so. But then again - why should they be taught anything if they never get freedom again? :P

[Richie]

Good if they go insane, it will teach them not to commit a crime again. I know I sound very blunt but when I think of prison first thing that comes to mind is rapists and peados

[HotelUser]

Free food, a warm bed, TV and a computer is a step up from where a lot of them were in life anyways, though. Someone containing 10,000+ child porn pictures, as well as being caught making child pornography should not be complaining that there's not enough sex oriented television channels.


I think you lot are making it sound like it's welcoming or some sort of hotel. Personally, I don't think so, no. They've lost the only thing worth living for - freedom. The fact they can't see their family whenever they want, they can't walk their dog, they can't take their kids to the park. That punishment is sufficient enough as far as I'm concerned. I think the media blow things out of all proportion and forget far too easily that prison is not a nice place to be. If they have TVs then so be it.




Good if they go insane, it will teach them not to commit a crime again. I know I sound very blunt but when I think of prison first thing that comes to mind is rapists and peados

I agree with you. I'm not talking Alcatraz here, but if someone has done something like taken the life of another human I think they certainly don't deserve to experience commodities such as TV.

[Becca]

I think there should be TVs to get you through the day but there shouldn't be any xbox's :S

[Gibs960]

Moaning about too many jail programmes on TV? If I was in charge they'd all be dead, the dirt *******s....

[alexxxxx]

they have to balance it between keeping prisoners sane and not rioting/killing/hurting each other and giving too many luxuries. You have to remember that even with these 'luxuries' they arent exactly nice places to go.

[immense]

Good if they go insane, it will teach them not to commit a crime again. I know I sound very blunt but when I think of prison first thing that comes to mind is rapists and peados

Our prisons are supposed to reform people though. Whether they do or not is a whole new debate. By making them go insane will mean they leave prison being insane, more of a danger to the wider public.

Free food, a warm bed, TV and a computer is a step up from where a lot of them were in life anyways, though.
Once again, you're forgetting they're stuck there all day, every day. You say it's a step up, yeah I bet they love having their freedom taken away and more than likely being targeted by other cons.

Moaning about too many jail programmes on TV? If I was in charge they'd all be dead, the dirt *******s....
fab solution.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Once again, you're forgetting they're stuck there all day, every day. You say it's a step up, yeah I bet they love having their freedom taken away and more than likely being targeted by other cons.

If you value freedom so much then you dont commit the crime.

This subject has gone wild within the last decade or so but its been happening since the early 1990s, a mixture of political correctness gone mad at home and EU court ruling has led to criminals being treated like the victims rather than the victims of the crime. It is commonplace nowadays where we have serial offenders let out early/not sentenced at all because the Labour government failed to build more prisons and we have dangerous criminals recieving sentences of less than ten years at times for taking somebodies life - the ironic part being that they actually call these sentences 'life sentences' when they are anything but. However those of you who vote/support Labour then you really cant moan about it and neither can the rest of the country who voted for Labour - you vote Labour you have to expect and accept this sort of backwardness along with higher taxes and so forth.

[Hitman]

Yes, they've gone too far. A prison cell should be a dingy little room with a hard bed. A toilet of somesort and a sink.

The only bad things for prisoners are other prisoners and having to think about what they did/boredom. That's why they are there though, to learn a lesson and for the safety of the public.

[Swastika]

Change all our prisons to those like American ones and introduce the death penalty THEN ill be happy.
The British legal system is a joke and to be honest, nobody's scared of it - im certainly not, you pinch a car in England and 9/10 you wouldn't get sentenced whereas in America you'd get hard time for that.

Make's me sick sometimes when i think about what type of country i live in, with a legal system and jails that nobody are scared of.

[immense]

Change all our prisons to those like American ones and introduce the death penalty THEN ill be happy.
The British legal system is a joke and to be honest, nobody's scared of it - im certainly not, you pinch a car in England and 9/10 you wouldn't get sentenced whereas in America you'd get hard time for that.

Make's me sick sometimes when i think about what type of country i live in, with a legal system and jails that nobody are scared of.

That's ridiculous. Once again, you're making it sound as if people want to go to prison. Of course, they're scared, who wants to be physically and verbally abused day after day. Nobody. They can't do what they want like you make out. The death penalty, we know that'd be horrendous.

[-:Undertaker:-]

That's ridiculous. Once again, you're making it sound as if people want to go to prison. Of course, they're scared, who wants to be physically and verbally abused day after day. Nobody. They can't do what they want like you make out. The death penalty, we know that'd be horrendous.

The death penalty should be put to referendum so then we can see whether the majority see if its horrendous or not. Personally I find murderers being let out at all, let alone after short sentences the more horrendous and pressing issue rather than the distant threat of the death penalty. The prison population needs at least doubling - at its present capacity (80,000 odd thousand) its not only full but when you think about it logically its only a large-sized football stadium on a match day and I think thats appalling for a country with a population of 60 odd million.

The truth is that prison is a better option for a lot of people; its warm, mostly safe (safer than the streets in some areas to some people) and has facilities such as gyms, gaming consoles and other things that a lot of people can barely afford to have/use. In left wing Britain the criminal comes first and foremost and its totally and utterly wrong.

[immense]

The death penalty should be put to referendum so then we can see whether the majority see if its horrendous or not. Personally I find murderers being let out at all, let alone after short sentences the more horrendous and pressing issue rather than the distant threat of the death penalty. The prison population needs at least doubling - at its present capacity (80,000 odd thousand) its not only full but when you think about it logically its only a large-sized football stadium on a match day and I think thats appalling.

The truth is that prison is a better option for a lot of people; its warm, mostly safe (safer than the streets in some areas to some people) and has facilities such as gyms, gaming consoles and other things that a lot of people can barely afford to have/use. In left wing Britain the criminal comes first and foremost.

Which are totally different issues to contend with altogether. How you can say it is safer is bizarre, you're really media driven on this topic. I've had people I know been to prison and it's not like it's portrayed, they don't waltz around angry that they've lost on FIFA or have access to great Sky TV and all watch the football whilst having a beer. It's my idea of hell. Also, you're straining the point way too far by saying a criminal comes first and foremost, obviously not true.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Which are totally different issues to contend with altogether. How you can say it is safer is bizarre, you're really media driven on this topic. I've had people I know been to prison and it's not like it's portrayed, they don't waltz around angry that they've lost on FIFA or have access to great Sky TV and all watch the football whilst having a beer. It's my idea of hell. Also, you're straining the point way too far by saying a criminal comes first and foremost, obviously not true.

I am media driven because thanks to a free media in this country you learn the goings-on of this country and the shambolic way it is governed, of course if you read the likes of Polly Toynbee you may aswell declare yourself insane and march back off to Pollyland where crime is falling and everythings 'happy-diddy go'. It is your idea of hell because you are well off and not a criminal, it would be my idea of hell as well because I am well off and enjoy freedom and understand its value - these people [criminals] do not have that same outlook, hence why they commit crimes in the first place.

The criminals do come first in Britain, in this country you take a life and get around 10 years for it - a life isnt worth 10 years, its worth a life.

[immense]

I have committed crime though. It's the thought of prison that puts me off committing more severe crime because unlike what the media say prison isn't a walk in the park and is one of the most daunting places you could go in this country.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I have committed crime though. It's the thought of prison that puts me off committing more severe crime because unlike what the media say prison isn't a walk in the park and is one of the most daunting places you could go in this country.

Well i'm afraid a nice bed, nice facilities, a gym, workshops, game consoles, McDonalds as a treat [the list goes on] isnt what most people would call daunting from a crime perspective. Again it is terrifying for you and I, but not for criminals - because for them it is nothing short of a holiday.

[immense]

Well i'm afraid a nice bed, nice facilities, a gym, workshops, game consoles, McDonalds as a treat [the list goes on] isnt what most people would call daunting.

nice bed - it's standard
nice facilities - standard
gym - not all
workshops - fundamental aim of our prisons is to reform criminals
game consoles - not always true

[Inseriousity.]

I am media driven because thanks to a free media in this country you learn the goings-on of this country and the shambolic way it is governed, of course if you read the likes of Polly Toynbee you may aswell declare yourself insane and march back off to Pollyland where crime is falling and everythings 'happy-diddy go'. It is your idea of hell because you are well off and not a criminal, it would be my idea of hell as well because I am well off and enjoy freedom and understand its value - these people [criminals] do not have that same outlook, hence why they commit crimes in the first place.

The criminals do come first in Britain, in this country you take a life and get around 10 years for it - a life isnt worth 10 years, its worth a life.

The media exists to sell and make money, not to inform and educate people. Have you been to prison? No. Why haven't you been to prison? Cos you know that being out of it is a lot better than being in it. That goes for the majority of people, not the minority as the media would have you believe.

[-:Undertaker:-]

nice bed - it's standard
nice facilities - standard
gym - not all
workshops - fundamental aim of our prisons is to reform criminals
game consoles - not always true

..and again, better than what most would get on the outside - many decent working people cant even afford gym membership yet criminals who pay no tax and probably havent ever paid anything much in tax get it free - what kind of a reforming process is that?

The reforming isnt working because we have a swival door system now in prison, you go in (rarely nowadays) then come out, then go back in again so it is obviously not working which is why we need tougher sentences for all variations of criminals.


The media exists to sell and make money, not to inform and educate people. Have you been to prison? No. Why haven't you been to prison? Cos you know that being out of it is a lot better than being in it. That goes for the majority of people, not the minority as the media would have you believe.

The media does exist to inform people whilst also making a profit, the likes of Peter Hitchens and co didnt become journalists to make money - they became journalists because they enjoy writing and putting their views across in which to do so they need to make a living and the paper itself needs money to be able to be printed and circulated. Now I know prison isnt better than my outside and my life, but I also know that for a lot of people that prison is better for them than their usual lives - hence why we have people offending time and time again.

If it was so dreadful and awful, why do they keep re-offending?

[immense]

What do you want them to do? You must agree it's beneficial to try and reform them to try and make Britain safer. Not everyone is educated like us and you have to remember that. They need to have something to channel their enthusiasm into else it'd make our whole prison system pointless. It's not at the moment because it can still reform people as has been shown time and time again.

[-:Undertaker:-]

What do you want them to do? You must agree it's beneficial to try and reform them to try and make Britain safer. Not everyone is educated like us and you have to remember that. They need to have something to channel their enthusiasm into else it'd make our whole prison system pointless. It's not at the moment because it can still reform people as has been shown time and time again.

I want them to serve their sentences whilst having a miserable time reflecting on what they have done. I do not want them playing on consoles, going the gym and lounging around in workshops at the expense of the taxpayer which includes their victims - essentially you have a system where the victims are paying for the criminals to have a good time to channel their 'enthusiasm'. Well I am sorry but if you have an enthusiasm for crime that doesnt mean you deserve special treatment, it means you should be locked away in a simple cell with no entertainment/facilities to take your mind off the boredom and awfulness of the place you deserve to be in because of your crimes.

The prison system is not there to reform (not that its doing that anyway) and give the criminals a good time at the expense of the taxpayer - it is there to protect the general public from the criminal whilst also giving the criminal a hard time to deter them from committing any crimes again.

[Black_Apalachi]

What else are they going to do though, they can't literally be expected to walk around the prison or sit in their cell all day.

That's how I always imagined it.

[Adamm]

4 walls, a hole for pee and poo and a mattress.

anything else and it's not a prison. they're in there for a reason, make them pay. room needs to be about 8ft by 6ft, grey.

too worried about human rights cos we're a PUSHOVER NATION

[Hitman]

4 walls, a hole for pee and poo and a mattress.

anything else and it's not a prison. they're in there for a reason, make them pay. room needs to be about 8ft by 6ft, grey.

too worried about human rights cos we're a PUSHOVER NATION
Exactly.

The other problem with prisons is that the people inside have all done crimes and some will have done big crimes or will have been in the 'game' for a long time. So a petty criminal goes in, conditions aren't too hard for them and they mingle with bigger people who teach them more tricks of the trade. By the time they leave they're armed with loads more information than when they went in! A 'college of crime' as somebody put it.

Wasn't it David Cameron using the statistics '9/10 offenders re-offend when out of prison'? If that's true then the prisoner rehab/reform thing seriously isn't working. You can't force people to change, they have to really want to - I doubt many prisoners want to.

There was this thing my dad heard on the radio about a couple of immigrants (Eastern European I believe, can't remember) and prison conditions in the UK were much better than living conditions in their home country, so the committed crimes just to go to prison. Crazy.

Have your reform centres and try to help them, but they shouldn't have luxuries like TV, McDonalds and game consoles. It's ridiculous.

[Hardstylerz]

...Fix the justice system first, 3 years for making child pornography; sounds like a flawed legal system right there, the guy deserves to be strung up by the balls..

[cocaine]

prisoners should only get basic rights

[Swastika]

Every legal system in the world is flawed, no countries legal system is 100% flaw-proof.
I believe we should change to the American legal system, because whether you want to admit it or not, the British legal system is a joke and does NOT work.
In America you don't get all these luxuries the British criminal gets, you get life for taking a life, you get about 1 hour a day out of your cell for exercise, and in some states you have to pay the ultimate price for taking somebodies life!
The typical British criminal isn't scared of life in prison because of the luxuries you get, most of them even have mobile phones lmao! It's a complete joke.
3 years for child porn charges? Joke. 10 years for a life sentence? Joke.

[kuzkasate]

I know lots of people that have been in jail, English and not and they all say it was like a vacation, every single one of them! They get XBOX'S, they can go to the gym, they can go work if they want, they have comfortable beds and stuff, wth?

Its meant to be a punishment, not a vacation. I know some Iranian guy who was in jail and he liked it so much, he commited another crime and got arrested because he just chilled in prison!

For example, in my country (Russia) you dont get any of that. You get a tiny little room, hardly any light, all dirty, crappy beds that hurt your back and they put so much people in one cell, that there is no room. They get disgusting food & they dont get any of those good things.. criminals should be treated exactly like this and not be given an easy time.

[immense]

I know lots of people that have been in jail, English and not and they all say it was like a vacation, every single one of them! They get XBOX'S, they can go to the gym, they can go work if they want, they have comfortable beds and stuff, wth?

Its meant to be a punishment, not a vacation. I know some Iranian guy who was in jail and he liked it so much, he commited another crime and got arrested because he just chilled in prison!

For example, in my country (Russia) you dont get any of that. You get a tiny little room, hardly any light, all dirty, crappy beds that hurt your back and they put so much people in one cell, that there is no room. They get disgusting food & they dont get any of those good things.. criminals should be treated exactly like this and not be given an easy time.

That's utter rubbish. With my uncle being the head of a prison and the other side of my family being in and out of prison on a frequent basis none of them say it's a vacation. On a vacation you can do what you want as and when you want. None of us can say the truth as our opinions are second hand and or media driven. I guarantee though that if any of us spent a week in prison we'd hate it so much and it wouldn't be much like a vacation. If you think it's like a vacation then hey stop going to school or working or whatever it is you may do and go and kill someone! One big vacation... oh wait... :rolleyes:

[kuzkasate]

That's utter rubbish. With my uncle being the head of a prison and the other side of my family being in and out of prison on a frequent basis none of them say it's a vacation. On a vacation you can do what you want as and when you want. None of us can say the truth as our opinions are second hand and or media driven. I guarantee though that if any of us spent a week in prison we'd hate it so much and it wouldn't be much like a vacation. If you think it's like a vacation then hey stop going to school or working or whatever it is you may do and go and kill someone! One big vacation... oh wait... :rolleyes:

No its not utter rubbish. For some people, living in prison is better than irl.

[immense]

No its not utter rubbish. For some people, living in prison is better than irl.

Because not having freedom and stuck in a building (regardless of the facilities) must be fab.

[kuzkasate]

Because not having freedom must be fabulous.

They might not have freedom, but they are treated as if they're bloody kings. They are criminals therefore should be treated like criminals. I know some guy that I used to live next too, he was arrested for selling drugs & he expected prison to be hell. He came out and said, "it wasnt really that bad, I mostly went in the gym and when I got bored went and chilled."

Yes, a real punishment isnt it.

[immense]

They might not have freedom, but they are treated as if they're bloody kings. They are criminals therefore should be treated like criminals. I know some guy that I used to live next too, he was arrested for selling drugs & he expected prison to be hell. He came out and said, "it wasnt really that bad, I mostly went in the gym and when I got bored went and chilled."

Yes, a real punishment isnt it.
That's a lie right there as they're not allowed out of their cells when they're bored. Certain times. They have certain lock down periods where everyone is expected to be in designated areas. They also have schedules too, they don't just strut into the gym as and when they want like you're making out. I'm not excusing criminals it's just infuriating that people just take for granted what they see in the media. Like I said, if you think it sounds so inviting why don't you go and commit a crime and enjoy your life in prison.

Yes, it is a punishment.

[Hitman]

Some people do not care for freedom. If you're a starving, homeless drug addict breaking into peoples houses to get money then prison WILL be like a holiday for you. You get fed, you can get washed, you can play computer games, watch TV, be warm... now if you are a normal person that has all of that anyway, then prison won't be like a holiday because you are more restricted and have to put up with some nasty people, but you do still get your TV, xbox, food, etc. which is wrong.

So yes, to those who don't get those luxuries in the first place will find prison as a nice place - better than sleeping rough on the streets. Those, like you and me, who have food, internet, tv, etc. will not enjoy it at all and will not want to be there, but the TV, gym, xbox, etc. will make it hell of a lot more bearable and not so bad.

[Swastika]

Doherty, your really getting on my nerves now thinking you know it all.
Do you agree the British legal system is a joke?
Do you agree that criminals are not getting long enough sentences?
Do you agree that criminals are not afraid of prison?

If yes to all three questions, you must then agree that prison isn't a scary place that everybody's scared of. I think you've been watching to much of that prison program that was on last week - prison's arn't that bad and most people that come out who i know have said its not that bad at all and it's nothing like what people say. The only people that will hate it is paedophiles and people sentenced for child crimes - and they'll hate it for obvious reasons, they'll get brayed all the time.
Prisons are NOT strict enough in this country, our legals system is a joke, our sentences are NOT long enough and our prisons DO have to many luxuries AND security obviously isn't tight enough in most prisons because a vast majority of prisoners have made a phone call from a mobile phone smuggled in at one point.

And your telling people if prison isn't that bad then go and commit a crime and see how we like it? I'm sure most of us on here have morales and are decent people - i think your failing to see that criminals aren't decent people? Criminals don't care about peoples feelings and have no respect for peoples personal items and such, the average HxF user does.
The fact that you are telling people to commit and crime and see how they like prison is ludicrous.

[immense]

Doherty, your really getting on my nerves now thinking you know it all.
Do you agree the British legal system is a joke?
Do you agree that criminals are not getting long enough sentences?
Do you agree that criminals are not afraid of prison?

If yes to all three questions, you must then agree that prison isn't a scary place that everybody's scared of. I think you've been watching to much of that prison program that was on last week - prison's arn't that bad and most people that come out who i know have said its not that bad at all and it's nothing like what people say. The only people that will hate it is paedophiles and people sentenced for child crimes - and they'll hate it for obvious reasons, they'll get brayed all the time.
Prisons are NOT strict enough in this country, our legals system is a joke, our sentences are NOT long enough and our prisons DO have to many luxuries AND security obviously isn't tight enough in most prisons because a vast majority of prisoners have made a phone call from a mobile phone smuggled in at one point.

And your telling people if prison isn't that bad then go and commit a crime and see how we like it? I'm sure most of us on here have morales and are decent people - i think your failing to see that criminals aren't decent people? Criminals don't care about peoples feelings and have no respect for peoples personal items and such, the average HxF user does.
The fact that you are telling people to commit and crime and see how they like prison is ludicrous.

The only thing within this thread that is ludicrous is how driven you lot are by tabloids. I don't know why I'm surprised seeing as there is a heavy UKIP following which is almost just as ludicrous. Lucky the wider general public are more clued up and know what is good for the country. When people are comparing prison to vacation when they've never been themselves it's ridiculous and clearly as you think you know everything you're agreeing with them. Let me tell you something to aid your understand, when I went on vacation, I was free to do as I please, spent time with my friends and had a splendid time. I wasn't stuck in an allocated area 24 hours of the day, like prisoners are.

I might be getting on your nerves, I couldn't give one. It's a forum, this is where discussion happens. If you're unable to comprehend opposing views then it's not the place for you quite simply. Although, everybody is disagreeing with me I'm not going to step back and post my opinions. Unlike prisoners, I can discuss what I want on here ;).

Now to your questions...

Do you agree the British legal system is a joke?

Nope.

Do you agree that criminals are not getting long enough sentences?

Maybe but that isn't what this topic is about. However, I hear just as often a case where I think a sentence is too long and where I think a sentence is too short. It's subjective and therefore it's never going to be 100% accurate.

Do you agree that criminals are not afraid of prison?

The majority are, yes. Of course, they are. It's crazy to suggest anything but.

[-:Undertaker:-]

That's utter rubbish. With my uncle being the head of a prison and the other side of my family being in and out of prison on a frequent basis none of them say it's a vacation. On a vacation you can do what you want as and when you want. None of us can say the truth as our opinions are second hand and or media driven. I guarantee though that if any of us spent a week in prison we'd hate it so much and it wouldn't be much like a vacation. If you think it's like a vacation then hey stop going to school or working or whatever it is you may do and go and kill someone! One big vacation... oh wait... :rolleyes:

So why do they keep committing crime which lands them back in prison?


Because not having freedom and stuck in a building (regardless of the facilities) must be fab.

Again, so why do they keep re-offending which surrenders their freedom - if it is so bad, why are they so intent on going back?

[immense]

That's who they are, some people aren't as fortunate as ourselves and you have to remember that rather than having blinkered vision. The majority of people in this country don't commit crime because they're scared of the consequences, i.e. prison and losing their freedom. Some people have to commit crime to lead their lives and don't forget without certain levels of crime we'd have no social change. A certain amount of crime is beneficial but that's a whole new different debate.

[Inseriousity.]

That's who they are, some people aren't as fortunate as ourselves and you have to remember that rather than having blinkered vision. The majority of people in this country don't commit crime because they're scared of the consequences, i.e. prison and losing their freedom. Some people have to commit crime to lead their lives and don't forget without certain levels of crime we'd have no social change. A certain amount of crime is beneficial but that's a whole new different debate.

lol durkheim's an idiot although he is right here, I suppose. :P

People re-offend because the rehabilitation system is completely wrong. That's not to say that locking them up will solve it but giving them qualifications are useless because when they get out, they can't adapt back into the 'normal' system.

[immense]

lol durkheim's an idiot although he is right here, I suppose. :P

People re-offend because the rehabilitation system is completely wrong. That's not to say that locking them up will solve it but giving them qualifications are useless because when they get out, they can't adapt back into the 'normal' system.
Was hoping you wouldn't see me bringing my sociology in :L As the course progresses, I think Durkheim is right more and more, haha. Criminals can't get back because into normal society because they're not given the opportunity. It's a vicious circle. They can only get part time jobs or low paid jobs once they've committed a crime. Once they need more money, they turn to crime again and it just goes around and round.

[-:Undertaker:-]

That's who they are, some people aren't as fortunate as ourselves and you have to remember that rather than having blinkered vision. The majority of people in this country don't commit crime because they're scared of the consequences, i.e. prison and losing their freedom. Some people have to commit crime to lead their lives and don't forget without certain levels of crime we'd have no social change. A certain amount of crime is beneficial but that's a whole new different debate.


Was hoping you wouldn't see me bringing my sociology in :L As the course progresses, I think Durkheim is right more and more, haha. Criminals can't get back because into normal society because they're not given the opportunity. It's a vicious circle. They can only get part time jobs or low paid jobs once they've committed a crime. Once they need more money, they turn to crime again and it just goes around and round.

The central point you just mentioned can be answered to by this; a lot of people need money yet they dont go out and commit crime, not having money is not an excuse to commit crime or do you dispute that?

A lot of people are not well off all over the country and probably never will be yet they dont turn to crime, stop making excuses for them - if you commit a crime then you do the time. You (the individual) have chosen to commit that crime therefore you should pay the price because you have harmed others who do not commit crime and stay within the law. Why should criminals be treated as though its not their fault and its the fault of everybody else - wrong, it is their fault and nobody elses fault but their own. I said earlier that for a lot of people prison is better than the outside yet you disputed this, but now you have just basically admitted that it is better because they cant get jobs etc so they end up in prison again - suggesting that prison is better for some people than the outside is and thats why they keep reoffending.

..so how would you sort the justice system out?

Give them housing at the expense of the taxpayer/people genuinely in need of social housing?
Give them qualifications despite the fact they werre given the same chance as the rest of us in the first place?
Get them a job at the expense of normal hard working people?
Give them rehabiliation at the expense of peoples safety?

Crime isnt something that need rewarding, its something that needs punishing.

[Swastika]

The only thing within this thread that is ludicrous is how driven you lot are by tabloids. I don't know why I'm surprised seeing as there is a heavy UKIP following which is almost just as ludicrous. Lucky the wider general public are more clued up and know what is good for the country. When people are comparing prison to vacation when they've never been themselves it's ridiculous and clearly as you think you know everything you're agreeing with them. Let me tell you something to aid your understand, when I went on vacation, I was free to do as I please, spent time with my friends and had a splendid time. I wasn't stuck in an allocated area 24 hours of the day, like prisoners are.

I might be getting on your nerves, I couldn't give one. It's a forum, this is where discussion happens. If you're unable to comprehend opposing views then it's not the place for you quite simply. Although, everybody is disagreeing with me I'm not going to step back and post my opinions. Unlike prisoners, I can discuss what I want on here ;).

Now to your questions...

Do you agree the British legal system is a joke?

Nope.

Do you agree that criminals are not getting long enough sentences?

Maybe but that isn't what this topic is about. However, I hear just as often a case where I think a sentence is too long and where I think a sentence is too short. It's subjective and therefore it's never going to be 100% accurate.

Do you agree that criminals are not afraid of prison?

The majority are, yes. Of course, they are. It's crazy to suggest anything but.

None of my points were driven by tabloids, they're driven from education.
Why have you brung UKIP up in a post answering to my post? I do not support UKIP and UKIP has nothing to do with my post. :S
Vacation? Again why are you bringing up yet another irrelevant point in a reply to my post?

Please re-read my post and then try and answer to it, maybe you've got this wrong and i think you need to understand that forums aren't for you when you can't even answer to a simple post without bringing up irrelevant and invalid points.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The only thing within this thread that is ludicrous is how driven you lot are by tabloids. I don't know why I'm surprised seeing as there is a heavy UKIP following which is almost just as ludicrous. Lucky the wider general public are more clued up and know what is good for the country. When people are comparing prison to vacation when they've never been themselves it's ridiculous and clearly as you think you know everything you're agreeing with them. Let me tell you something to aid your understand, when I went on vacation, I was free to do as I please, spent time with my friends and had a splendid time. I wasn't stuck in an allocated area 24 hours of the day, like prisoners are.

I missed this but its worth a reply anyway. You disagree with UKIPs stance on crime(?) which is that; we need to build more prisons because (main reasons are listed below);

- We only have 80,000 places for a country with a population of over 60 million.
- We have dangerous criminals being allowed out of prison re-offending.
- We have crime in general out of control with prisons full and people recieving pitiful sentences for murder.

..yet you imply that UKIP & its policy concerning crime & justice are ludicrous? :S

[kuzkasate]

Doherty, I never stated that they can wonder out of the cells. Like I said, I KNOW people that have been in prison and they all say the same things, so how you can you claim that what I say is "utter rubbish" when I know these people and they have told me?

[Inseriousity.]

Doherty, I never stated that they can wonder out of the cells. Like I said, I KNOW people that have been in prison and they all say the same things, so how you can you claim that what I say is "utter rubbish" when I know these people and they have told me?

lol and are these friends of yours the type of people who would much rather pretend to be tough and macho (it's just like a holiday, they weren't gonna mess with me, I was the toughest) than admit they were scared/frightened?

[kuzkasate]

lol and are these friends of yours the type of people who would much rather pretend to be tough and macho (it's just like a holiday, they weren't gonna mess with me, I was the toughest) than admit they were scared/frightened?

where did i state that they were my friends? no, they actually arent tough and they dont pretend to be, one got arrested for fighting with a police officer, so no, they dont think they're bad. they didnt say they were the toughest. and they werent scared or frightened, just worried about stuff, but most of the stuff wasnt related to jail.

[immense]

The central point you just mentioned can be answered to by this; a lot of people need money yet they dont go out and commit crime, not having money is not an excuse to commit crime or do you dispute that?
I have already explained in a previous post that there is no excuse. I'm working with facts and posting the truth. Something which it would seem the majority can't handle.

None of my points were driven by tabloids, they're driven from education.
Why have you brung UKIP up in a post answering to my post? I do not support UKIP and UKIP has nothing to do with my post. :S
Vacation? Again why are you bringing up yet another irrelevant point in a reply to my post?

Please re-read my post and then try and answer to it, maybe you've got this wrong and i think you need to understand that forums aren't for you when you can't even answer to a simple post without bringing up irrelevant and invalid points.

My god you shouldn't be using a forum. Those explanations were corroborating my points that replied to you. If you read my post I took the three questions your reply was centred around and replied to them - you either missed this or are trying too hard to belittle me and have forgotten I directly addressed your post, more than can be said for yours to mine. I am replying to comments you posted more than you're replying to mine. Just to clarify it for you because you blatantly haven't read the entirety of the thread, vacation was a term used by another user. Don't think you're important enough for me just to reply to you, I am hitting two birds with one stone so to speak. I mentioned UKIP because I was posting what I was thinking and was making it more comprehensible for others to understand.

The criticism you gave me is more relevant to you. I answered your questions you had nothing to reply with. Prison is a horrible place and not anywhere people choose to go to (bar a minority of prisoners who end up top dogs) and enjoy their reputation. Please stop believing everything you read and see and think outside the box, if that's not too much to ask.

[Inseriousity.]

where did i state that they were my friends? no, they actually arent tough and they dont pretend to be, one got arrested for fighting with a police officer, so no, they dont think they're bad. they didnt say they were the toughest. and they werent scared or frightened, just worried about stuff, but most of the stuff wasnt related to jail.

You said you "KNOW people", that could be friends, family and I just chose one? There wasn't really any big deal over that tbh. I was trying to make the point that just because some people say it's like a vacation doesn't actually mean it is. People do lie, after all.

[HotelUser]

Our prisons are supposed to reform people though. Whether they do or not is a whole new debate. By making them go insane will mean they leave prison being insane, more of a danger to the wider public.

Once again, you're forgetting they're stuck there all day, every day. You say it's a step up, yeah I bet they love having their freedom taken away and more than likely being targeted by other cons.

fab solution.

They're in prison for a reason, they committed a crime, and as result get and deserve privileges revoked. So yes, I'm going to say rotting of boredom in a cell for 7 years is a small price to pay for killing and taking the life of another person.


Because not having freedom and stuck in a building (regardless of the facilities) must be fab.

Again, you've completely over looked the fact that criminals commit crimes prior to being sentenced to prison.

[immense]

They're in prison for a reason, they committed a crime, and as result get and deserve privileges revoked. So yes, I'm going to say rotting of boredom in a cell for 7 years is a small price to pay for killing and taking the life of another person.



Again, you've completely over looked the fact that criminals commit crimes prior to being sentenced to prison.
So when their sentence is complete, they would have learned nothing and will hate their life to such an extent they'r more likely to re-offend. Anyway, between you you've gone around in a full circle and giving depleted ideas that I've already answered so my contribution to this thread is complete. I have given all my opinions! :) Whether you can acknowledge and accept them is something else entirely.

[kuzkasate]

You said you "KNOW people", that could be friends, family and I just chose one? There wasn't really any big deal over that tbh. I was trying to make the point that just because some people say it's like a vacation doesn't actually mean it is. People do lie, after all.
they are nor friends nor family. people i know. but people could also lie about prison being all hard and strict and say "yeh look at me im a badman, prisons so hard yo, but i survived init cos im bad"

[Hitman]

So when their sentence is complete, they would have learned nothing and will hate their life to such an extent they'r more likely to re-offend. Anyway, between you you've gone around in a full circle and giving depleted ideas that I've already answered so my contribution to this thread is complete. I have given all my opinions! :) Whether you can acknowledge and accept them is something else entirely.
On one hand we can let them stay in a tiny cell with nothing to do but think about their actions with the hope that they realise their mistake and don't do it again. That, or they become so bored of prison that when they finally do get out, they behave so they don't have to ever go back.

Or, on the other hand we can let them have nice cells that have comfy beds, TV, games consoles, special treats such as McDonalds, money to buy cigarettes, the gym and we can try and help them in rehab by teaching them new skills in the hope that they apply these to the real world. But, when they get out they might think "ah, **** this, it's hard work." and not bother. Crime pays better than a ****** job so who's to say that they will take onboard what they learnt?

If the police came and arrested me right now for something serious (which would result in jail time) I would not be immensely terrified. I would be worried and not want to go at all, but I'd go knowing it's not hell and I won't be bored or have to endure nasty food: afterall, there's TV, games consoles and other facilities. Biggest worries would be other prisoners and not having loads of freedom.

[Swastika]

My god you shouldn't be using a forum. Those explanations were corroborating my points that replied to you. If you read my post I took the three questions your reply was centred around and replied to them - you either missed this or are trying too hard to belittle me and have forgotten I directly addressed your post, more than can be said for yours to mine. I am replying to comments you posted more than you're replying to mine. Just to clarify it for you because you blatantly haven't read the entirety of the thread, vacation was a term used by another user. Don't think you're important enough for me just to reply to you, I am hitting two birds with one stone so to speak. I mentioned UKIP because I was posting what I was thinking and was making it more comprehensible for others to understand.

The criticism you gave me is more relevant to you. I answered your questions you had nothing to reply with. Prison is a horrible place and not anywhere people choose to go to (bar a minority of prisoners who end up top dogs) and enjoy their reputation. Please stop believing everything you read and see and think outside the box, if that's not too much to ask.
Ok, ill reply to you Sir Doherty.

First of all, don't insult my intelligence by telling me i shouldn't be using a forum when i clearly should as my points are valid, unlike yours to my post - maybe its you who needs to reconsider using a teenage forum*Removed* - i don't know.
Vacation indeed was a term used by another user, but not me. I asked you to answer MY questions and MINE only, not take terms or use other peoples posts to answer the questions i asked you.
I still don't see why you'd use UKIP in a thread about prisons? It has no relevance, like you.
Once again, will you quit with the "stop believing what you read" sentence, is that all you can say to users who are against your points of view? I haven't taken my points from the latest headlines from crappy newspapers thanks, I've based my opinions on what people have to told me, you know those real people who have actually been to prisons? You my friend, need to think outside the box - your believing that prisons are horrible,dirty and non-beneficial place to be, WRONG.
Prisons these days give you luxuries such as TV's, playstations/xbox's, boom boxes, comfortable beds, DVD's amongst other things, all at the taxpayers expense, you know these people that don't commit crimes and work hard for what they have?
British prisons are a joke and its very disturbing that you don't realise this - you ask anybody if they have faith in the legal system and they would say no.
Most people i know have said prison is a breeze and all they do is go to the gym when they're bored of wathcing TV or whatever. This is what my opinions are based on, real people, not some crappy newspaper from down the supermarket.

Edited by Catzsy (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not rude to others.

[kuzkasate]

Ok, ill reply to you Sir Doherty.

First of all, don't insult my intelligence by telling me i shouldn't be using a forum when i clearly should as my points are valid, unlike yours to my post - maybe its you who needs to reconsider using a teenage forum because you clearly have the mind of a 5 year old, maybe HxF is too high of a standard for your braincells - i don't know.
Vacation indeed was a term used by another user, but not me. I asked you to answer MY questions and MINE only, not take terms or use other peoples posts to answer the questions i asked you.
I still don't see why you'd use UKIP in a thread about prisons? It has no relevance, like you.
Once again, will you quit with the "stop believing what you read" sentence, is that all you can say to users who are against your points of view? I haven't taken my points from the latest headlines from crappy newspapers thanks, I've based my opinions on what people have to told me, you know those real people who have actually been to prisons? You my friend, need to think outside the box - your believing that prisons are horrible,dirty and non-beneficial place to be, WRONG.
Prisons these days give you luxuries such as TV's, playstations/xbox's, boom boxes, comfortable beds, DVD's amongst other things, all at the taxpayers expense, you know these people that don't commit crimes and work hard for what they have?
British prisons are a joke and its very disturbing that you don't realise this - you ask anybody if they have faith in the legal system and they would say no.
Most people i know have said prison is a breeze and all they do is go to the gym when they're bored of wathcing TV or whatever. This is what my opinions are based on, real people, not some crappy newspaper from down the supermarket.

yep that was me. and that was the exact word that was used from people that came outa jail.

[Callum.]

I always imagined prison like Shawshank Redeption. Obviously I was far off.

[MrPinkPanther]

In my opinion it depends on the prison sentence. I see no need for Sky Sports or "Social channels" in prison but I personally think that if you are trying to rehabilitate someone then something like the BBC NEWS channel is a good thing. It helps the prisoners understand that there are significant repercussions to their actions and it isn't the only thing they have to do. Prison shouldn't be comfortable, of course not, but equally once someone is sent to prison I don't feel that it should mean their life is over. Who hasn't done something in the heat of the moment and then regretted it later, I know that I for one have.

[Hitman]

In my opinion it depends on the prison sentence. I see no need for Sky Sports or "Social channels" in prison but I personally think that if you are trying to rehabilitate someone then something like the BBC NEWS channel is a good thing. It helps the prisoners understand that there are significant repercussions to their actions and it isn't the only thing they have to do. Prison shouldn't be comfortable, of course not, but equally once someone is sent to prison I don't feel that it should mean their life is over. Who hasn't done something in the heat of the moment and then regretted it later, I know that I for one have.
Yup, I'm sure many people have but if you plan to murder somebody, or in this case have child pornography then it is clearly not just something that has happened the heat of the moment.

[alexxxxx]

prison becomes an inevitable fact of life for certain sections of society. they don't see it as something that they can avoid, nor is it something. It's the short 30 days prison sentences people get for burglary etc - it's not long enough for people to really become rehabilitated. You've got to remember, criminals don't think like you at all. They see prison as a stumbling block in their life - it's not about how harsh it is, it's the way that their way of life is somewhat ok in their community.

and the USA is not a good punishment system at all.

[Swastika]

In your opinion its not, its far better than ours for the victims of criminals.

[HotelUser]

So when their sentence is complete, they would have learned nothing and will hate their life to such an extent they'r more likely to re-offend. Anyway, between you you've gone around in a full circle and giving depleted ideas that I've already answered so my contribution to this thread is complete. I have given all my opinions! :) Whether you can acknowledge and accept them is something else entirely.

I can acknowledge and accept your opinions, Jake, I am entitled to disagree with them (and so I do). If they were sent to prison to rot, as opposed to have luxuries like TV and internet, perhaps they wouldn't re-offend out of fear. Killers don't really deserve such commodities when they're supposed to be punished. Underaged sex offenders asking for more sexual television is just uncalled for.

[MrPinkPanther]

Yup, I'm sure many people have but if you plan to murder somebody, or in this case have child pornography then it is clearly not just something that has happened the heat of the moment.

Yeh, for sure, but most violet crimes are done in the heat of the moment. Even with Child Pornography I feel that the News would provide beneficial in helping the criminal come to terms with what they have done and what is socially acceptable and what isn't.

[Hitman]

Yeh, for sure, but most violet crimes are done in the heat of the moment. Even with Child Pornography I feel that the News would provide beneficial in helping the criminal come to terms with what they have done and what is socially acceptable and what isn't.
But surely they should already know? And I don't see how it'll help them at all, giving them extra news channels :S It's not as if these programmes are a new thing to them, they saw them out of prison and turned out the way they are.

[HotelUser]

If we publicized harsher punishments then criminals would also be more afraid to commit.

[Black_Apalachi]

Well it sounds a lot better than being homeless so I'd probably try and get into prison if I was homeless lol

[kuzkasate]

Well it sounds a lot better than being homeless so I'd probably try and get into prison if I was homeless lol

yes. this is what some people do. if you think about it, you get free shelter, food, games & other rewards such as gym.. so if your homeless and go begging and have to beg all day to get a packet of crisps to get some food down ya, it'd be easier to go to jail.

however, there are things like homeless shelters, but homeless people tend not to bother with them

[Sharon]

Just what :S - Prison is meant to be punishment not luxury.

[alexxxxx]

yes. this is what some people do. if you think about it, you get free shelter, food, games & other rewards such as gym.. so if your homeless and go begging and have to beg all day to get a packet of crisps to get some food down ya, it'd be easier to go to jail.

however, there are things like homeless shelters, but homeless people tend not to bother with them
they're full of drug addicts, violent people and outcasts afaik.

[Starburst..x]

I was reading throug some of these comments and I disagree with quite a few of them lol.

Firstly yes, prison is meant to act as a punishment, but it also there for rehabilitation purposes. So many people say "Yeaah go lock up all the scumbags put them in prison, let them rot, throw away the key" Right yeah okay, good one, because thats really going to help isn't it!? If they are not helped through prison i.e education and are just left to sit there in their cells all day what is it going to ahieve? The recidivism rate (the rate of which prisoners re-offend and end up back in prison) will just stay the same.
I remember being told that an mp called prison 'social services for criminals' i.e this is where criminals are thrown when everyone else cannot be bothered. Prison is the last resort when society fails someone - their families have failed them, education has failed them and prison is there to pick up the pieces. It gives them routine and some sort of meaning. Now before anyone throws a hissy fit, Im not necessarily talking about your murderers or rapists etc, I'm talking about those who commit petty crimes.
I remember watching a documentary on female prisoners in Holloway. There was one girl who came from an awful background, no one was ever there for her and she got caught up in crime. The sad thing was is she carried on re-offending to get back into prison NOT because it was "cushty" but because they gave her routine, they made her feel safe, and in a weird sense provided a family. I dont know about anyone else, but there is a lot wrong with society if this is the case. But it's too easy for people to blame it on other things rather than looking deeper into the problem.
I do realise people are going to say "but you cant blame that on the way they behave" and no you can't I totally agree, but locking them away and letting them "rot" isnt going to solve anything. Anyway, doesnt everyone moan about prisons being full of people that shouldnt be there!??...yeah exactly.

I got to visit a prison on a school trip, and it was horrible! The cells are tiny and the televisions they did have were so ridiculously old it was unreal. Furthermore they had to earn the rights for things like tvs, and if they broke it they would never recieve another one throughout their sentence.

So yeah before you start lapping up everything a journalist says about these so called 'luxurious' prisons, just remember that there's about a 99% chance they have never been in one and are only going by word of mouth, hmm very reliable.

[immense]

I was reading throug some of these comments and I disagree with quite a few of them lol.

Firstly yes, prison is meant to act as a punishment, but it also there for rehabilitation purposes. So many people say "Yeaah go lock up all the scumbags put them in prison, let them rot, throw away the key" Right yeah okay, good one, because thats really going to help isn't it!? If they are not helped through prison i.e education and are just left to sit there in their cells all day what is it going to ahieve? The recidivism rate (the rate of which prisoners re-offend and end up back in prison) will just stay the same.
I remember being told that an mp called prison 'social services for criminals' i.e this is where criminals are thrown when everyone else cannot be bothered. Prison is the last resort when society fails someone - their families have failed them, education has failed them and prison is there to pick up the pieces. It gives them routine and some sort of meaning. Now before anyone throws a hissy fit, Im not necessarily talking about your murderers or rapists etc, I'm talking about those who commit petty crimes.
I remember watching a documentary on female prisoners in Holloway. There was one girl who came from an awful background, no one was ever there for her and she got caught up in crime. The sad thing was is she carried on re-offending to get back into prison NOT because it was "cushty" but because they gave her routine, they made her feel safe, and in a weird sense provided a family. I dont know about anyone else, but there is a lot wrong with society if this is the case. But it's too easy for people to blame it on other things rather than looking deeper into the problem.
I do realise people are going to say "but you cant blame that on the way they behave" and no you can't I totally agree, but locking them away and letting them "rot" isnt going to solve anything. Anyway, doesnt everyone moan about prisons being full of people that shouldnt be there!??...yeah exactly.

I got to visit a prison on a school trip, and it was horrible! The cells are tiny and the televisions they did have were so ridiculously old it was unreal. Furthermore they had to earn the rights for things like tvs, and if they broke it they would never recieve another one throughout their sentence.

So yeah before you start lapping up everything a journalist says about these so called 'luxurious' prisons, just remember that there's about a 99% chance they have never been in one and are only going by word of mouth, hmm very reliable.
you have no idea how happy you've made me. i love you. this makes so much sense to me and is so much closer to the truth than half the tripe posted. god bless your soul. i've been trying to make them see sense for the last 8 years.

[Starburst..x]

you have no idea how happy you've made me. i love you. this makes so much sense to me and is so much closer to the truth than half the tripe posted. god bless your soul. i've been trying to make them see sense for the last 8 years.

There's no need to be a smart arse, funnily enough I was giving my opinion in a thread that I thought was called a debate?
Do correct me if I am wrong.

[Inseriousity.]

There's no need to be a smart arse, funnily enough I was giving my opinion in a thread that I thought was called a debate?
Do correct me if I am wrong.

lol that was his way of saying 'I agree' without getting a warning for it ;)
And yes you are dead right, the media paints a different and inaccurate picture to what prison is actually like. However, I would question if the rehabilitation was actually working. Giving them qualifications won't really help if they have the 'criminal' label. A homeless person needs a stable shelter, for example, not an NVQ and with the high reoffending rate, I don't think it's working.

[DeejayMachoo$]

Right first of all i'll put that I haven't read most of your comments because I quite frankly cannot be bothered, but going on i'll put across my views on prisoners rights.

I think that yes in some terms they need less rights and im more terms they need more rights. I am posting this from my first hand experience from being in prison for a brief amount of time this year until being released by the court of appeal.

While i was incarcerated in a category A prison (stright from court while I was waiting my prison allocation) I came to face with Pedohiles, Murderers, Arsonists and a few people who didn't pay there council tax.

About the person in the first post who wanted more TV chanels, I think that is truely ridiculous. I don't think people should have free view or sky or things like that but think of it if you was in the situation where it's a Sunday. They let you out of your cell at 8am, you play pool for a few hours, get locked in at 11 and then have a cold lunch. Then locked back in your cell until 8am monday morning. I'm sure most of you would be the first to complain. When you are not aloud a duvet incase you attack someone with it. Considering something stupid like 80% of UK prisoners have not even been found guilty yet.

While i was there I had a very very old TV in my cell what had a very bad quality channel 1, 2, 3 and 4. Also there were people who shouldn't of been there e.g speeding or not paying council tax, infact there was a 90 year-old man there for not paying his council tax.

Where'ever you stick up for there rights or think they have to many rights. Think about it. If you was accused of something which you didn't do and you was locked in prison awaiting trial. Would you want extra free-view chanels?