Murder

[Tintinnabulate]

I was speaking to a funeral director last week and the story of how someone died is extremely sad.

A man was put in jail for allegedly murdering someone. He served 18 years. When he got out, they re-did DNA tests on the person and it turns out this man was not the one who killed the person.

He had a well paid job before it and basically lost that and 18 years of his life. They gave him millions of pounds in compensation but his life was basically ruined. He committed suicide on 18 January 2010.

This is one of the reasons why I am very strongly against the death penalty.

[Hecktix]

wow, pretty hard hitting.

I too am against the death penalty, for these kinda reasons. It's pretty shocking really isnt it, because even if after 18 years he was proved guilty he'd still be branded a murderer.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I only support death penalty used in the most extreme of cases where you actually know for sure (through CCTV evidence and so on) that they actually committed the crime and its non-disputable. It is very sad what happens but its not a reason to be against the death penalty because you can then say 'well we shouldnt have prison just incase we get it wrong' - which leads to cases like this. It is rather rare and DNA/science is improving all the time so that with people such as Ian Huntley and Mira Hindley, we know they committed the crime and they should be hung for it.

I would want the issue to go to referendum first though so it had general public backing - we live in a democracy so lets start acting and legislating like one.

[Tintinnabulate]

I only support death penalty used in the most extreme of cases where you actually know for sure (through CCTV evidence and so on) that they actually committed the crime and its non-disputable. It is very sad what happens but its not a reason to be against the death penalty because you can then say 'well we shouldnt have prison just incase we get it wrong' - which leads to cases like this. It is rather rare and DNA/science is improving all the time so that with people such as Ian Huntley and Mira Hindley, we know they committed the crime and they should be hung for it.

I would want the issue to go to referendum first though so it had general public backing - we live in a democracy so lets start acting and legislating like one.

It has been proven that a life long jail sentence is worse as it means they suffer for their crime. Would you want to end their life so they dont suffer? I would personally want to see them rot in jail.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It has been proven that a life long jail sentence is worse as it means they suffer for their crime. Would you want to end their life so they dont suffer? I would personally want to see them rot in jail.

I would rather them dead yes rather than seeing them let out after a pitiful sentence or staying in prison with an xbox (Ian Huntley got one himself), cigarettes, a television, a gym, a library, workshops and the rest of it courtesy of the taxpayer - because I don't call that suffering.

[Catzsy]

I would rather them dead yes rather than seeing them let out after a pitiful sentence or staying in prison with an xbox (Ian Huntley got one himself), cigarettes, a television, a gym, a library, workshops and the rest of it courtesy of the taxpayer - because I don't call that suffering.

Well considering he has tried to committ suicide three times I am guessing he doesn't agree with you.

[Stephen]

Some people love prison. This girl I know, her brother gets caught selling drugs and stuff because he wants to go to prison. Just depends how you are I guess. Cos her brother is hugeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Muscle wise

[AgnesIO]

Omg.

The worst hing about this is he died instead of celebrating my birthday :(

[danzooo]

That's really sad, I can't believe these DNA tests they did initially didn't uncover this, but they did 18 years later?
It's not like something you can easily forget either is it...

[Jordy]

To be fair we do have a death penalty debate every couple of weeks on HabboxForum. I'm tired of them.

[Nixt]

It is most unfortunate and miscarriages of justice have a considerable affect on those who suffer it. Nevertheless I can't help but feel that a miscarriage of justice that took place 18 years ago is not so relevant to today's world where there have been considerable improvement in forensic science and crime scene investigation. It's a very sad story though.

[LoveToStack]

Am I missing something? You said a man was put in jail and did and 18 year sentence before being released and aquitted of the murder. He then commited suicide.
I got all that but how does that have anything to do with the death penalty? You say you're against the death penalty but I was under the impression the guy served an 18 year sentence and was released?
Was that specific case just a segway into a death penalty debate? :S

[Nixt]

Am I missing something? You said a man was put in jail and did and 18 year sentence before being released and aquitted of the murder. He then commited suicide.
I got all that but how does that have anything to do with the death penalty? You say you're against the death penalty but I was under the impression the guy served an 18 year sentence and was released?
Was that specific case just a segway into a death penalty debate? :S

He is saying he is against the death penalty because, if it was in force, the man probably would have been killed before the opportunity arose to see him acquitted.

[alexxxxx]

It is most unfortunate and miscarriages of justice have a considerable affect on those who suffer it. Nevertheless I can't help but feel that a miscarriage of justice that took place 18 years ago is not so relevant to today's world where there have been considerable improvement in forensic science and crime scene investigation. It's a very sad story though.

forensics cannot be, in my opinion, the only means to convict someone of murder.

[Nixt]

forensics cannot be, in my opinion, the only means to convict someone of murder.

Ultimately that depends on the nature of the forensic evidence. Are you telling me that if the semen of a man was found on the victim of a murder who had clearly been raped beforehand, combined with fingerprints on a murder weapon (of the same person) would not justify a conviction of murder? Whilst I appreciate this is not always the situation, it can happen and is a perfectly fair way to convict someone of any offence. For someone to be found guilty of a criminal offence it must be proved beyond reasonable doubt anyway and for the most part this is a fair way of doing it - miscarriages of justice, particularly on this scale, are rare.

[alexxxxx]

Ultimately that depends on the nature of the forensic evidence. Are you telling me that if the semen of a man was found on the victim of a murder who had clearly been raped beforehand, combined with fingerprints on a murder weapon (of the same person) would not justify a conviction of murder? Whilst I appreciate this is not always the situation, it can happen and is a perfectly fair way to convict someone of any offence. For someone to be found guilty of a criminal offence it must be proved beyond reasonable doubt anyway and for the most part this is a fair way of doing it - miscarriages of justice, particularly on this scale, are rare.

you've shown that that's quite clearly more than just forensic evidence. this isn't just finding someone's hair on the victim's clothes - you've managed to put beyond doubt that that person raped and murdered. which isn't what I meant.

what police shouldn't do is find DNA and then try and frame someone because they have a skin cell on their jumper.

and the miscarriages are only ever proved when it's found out - it's hard to say they're rare. in an appeal im sure it's up to the defendant to prove themselves not guilty rather tahn the other way round.

[Nixt]

you've shown that that's quite clearly more than just forensic evidence. this isn't just finding someone's hair on the victim's clothes - you've managed to put beyond doubt that that person raped and murdered. which isn't what I meant.

what police shouldn't do is find DNA and then try and frame someone because they have a skin cell on their jumper.

I am saying that DNA evidence can mean that (in some instances) they can be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt and in the event the DNA evidence isn't enough to make this happen the police will attempt to find other evidence anyway. It is highly unlikely the CPS would take a case based solely on a skin cell and I am confident in the highly unlikely event it did, the jury wouldn't find the defendant guilty unless there was additional evidence which proved to them beyond reasonable doubt the individual was guilty.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well considering he has tried to committ suicide three times I am guessing he doesn't agree with you.

Well as has been said before (the general jist);

Prison to an innocent man is awful.
Prison to a criminal is the normal.

If you are innocent then you value your freedoms, this story shows that up to be very true.

[alexxxxx]

I am saying that DNA evidence can mean that (in some instances) they can be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt and in the event the DNA evidence isn't enough to make this happen the police will attempt to find other evidence anyway. It is highly unlikely the CPS would take a case based solely on a skin cell and I am confident in the highly unlikely event it did, the jury wouldn't find the defendant guilty unless there was additional evidence which proved to them beyond reasonable doubt the individual was guilty.

and that's the way it should stay. dna evidence should never be the end-all.