Israeli forces attack Aid convoy headed for Gaza. - 10 killed

[Technologic]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm


More than 10 people have been killed after Israeli commandos stormed a convoy of ships carrying aid to the Gaza Strip, the Israeli army says.

Armed forces boarded the largest vessel overnight, clashing with some of the 500 people on board.

It happened about 40 miles (64 km) out to sea, in international waters.

Israel says its soldiers were shot at and attacked with weapons; the activists say Israeli troops came on board shooting.

The European Union has called for an inquiry to establish what happened.

'Guns and knives'
The six-ship flotilla, carrying 10,000 tonnes of aid, left the coast of Cyprus on Sunday and had been due to arrive in Gaza on Monday.

Israel says its soldiers boarded the lead ship in the early hours but were attacked with axes, knives, bars and at least two guns.


"Unfortunately this group were dead-set on confrontation," Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev told the BBC.

"Live fire was used against our forces. They initiated the violence, that's 100% clear," he said.

Organisers of the flotilla said at least 30 people were wounded in the incident. Israel says 10 of its soldiers were injured, one seriously.

A leader of Israel's Islamic Movement, Raed Salah, who was on board, was among those hurt.

Audrey Bomse, a spokesperson for the Free Gaza Movement, which is behind the convoy, told the BBC Israel's actions were disproportionate.

"We were not going to pose any violent resistance. The only resistance that there might be would be passive resistance such as physically blocking the steering room, or blocking the engine room downstairs, so that they couldn't get taken over. But that was just symbolic resistance."

She said there was "absolutely no evidence of live fire".

Israel is towing the boats to the port of Ashdod and says it will deport the passengers from there. It says it will deliver the ships' aid to Gaza.

Condemnation
Turkish TV pictures taken on board the Turkish ship leading the flotilla appeared to show Israeli soldiers fighting to control passengers.

GAZA AID CONVOY

Continue reading the main story
Consists of three cargo ships and three passenger ships
Casualties reported on the Mavi Marmara passenger ferry
Mavi Marmara is one of three ships provided by Insani Yardim Vakfi (IHH), a Turkish aid organisation with links to the Turkish government
Other ships are organised by the Free Gaza Movement, an international coalition of activist groups
Up to 600 mostly Turkish passengers, tonnes of cement and at least two journalists on board the Mavi Mamara
The footage showed a number of people, apparently injured, lying on the ground. A woman was seen holding a blood-stained stretcher.

Al-Jazeera TV reported from the same ship that Israeli navy forces had opened fire and boarded the vessel, wounding the captain.

The Al-Jazeera broadcast ended with a voice shouting in Hebrew, saying: "Everybody shut up!"

Israel's deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon said his country "regrets any loss of life and did everything to avoid this outcome".

He accused the convoy of a "premeditated and outrageous provocation", describing the flotilla as an "armada of hate".

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas condemned Israel's actions, saying it had committed a massacre.

Most of the people on board the boats were Turkish.

Turkey accused Israel of "targeting innocent civilians".

"We strongly denounce Israel's inhumane interception," it said, warning of "irreparable consequences" to the two countries' relations.


Danny Ayalon, Israeli deputy foreign minister: "The organisers' intent was violent."
Turkey was Israel's closest Muslim ally but relations have deteriorated over the past few years.

In Turkey, hundreds of protesters are demonstrating outside the Israeli consulate in the Istanbul, while Israeli ambassadors have been summoned to the Turkish, Greek and Spanish foreign ministries to explain what happened.

Greece has withdrawn from joint military exercises with Israel in protest at the raid on the flotilla.

Blockade
Israel had repeatedly said it would stop the boats, calling the campaign a "provocation intended to delegitimise Israel".

Israel and Egypt tightened a blockade of Gaza after the Islamist movement Hamas took power there in 2007.

Israel says it allows about 15,000 tonnes of humanitarian aid into Gaza every week.

But the United Nations says this is less than a quarter of what is needed.

The incident comes a day before Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is due to meet US President Barack Obama in Washington after one of the most strained periods in US-Israeli relations in years.

[Jordy]

Truly sickening, how the West continue to let Israel get away with this I'll never understand. Once again using disproportionate force and they will get away with it once again as they have done for the past 60 years

[Technologic]

Around 20 are now confirmed dead :l International waters as well :l

[Jordy]

Well I'm glad to see Greece finally doing something decent and stopping military exercises with them (They probably couldn't afford them anyway!). The EU had better do some sanctions too, but much like the US they'll probably do nothing.

[Technologic]

Well I'm glad to see Greece finally doing something decent and stopping military exercises with them (They probably couldn't afford them anyway!). The EU had better do some sanctions too, but much like the US they'll probably do nothing.

I'm waiting for Iran to do something...

[Jordy]

I'm waiting for Iran to do something...Doubt they'll do anything they never usually do. They do fund Hamas, Palestine, Syria etc though.

[BeanEgg]

Biggest lie ever.

Aid to Gaza, Israel OBVIOUSLY don't like this.

They board a ship that is in international waters, why bother?!

SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE TO STOP THE ISRAELI IDIOTS!
I doubt anything would be done to be honest, if Iran did something like this I'm sure the UN and the USA would get involved. :|

[xxMATTGxx]

Hold on. So they attacked ships that were carrying "aid" only in international waters? What the bloody hell.

[DaveTaylor]

Quite interesting how one sided this news article actually is, as to be honest Israel accepted they did wrong:


Defense Minister Ehud Barak said Monday that the organizers of the Gaza aid flotilla were to blame after at least 10 activists were killed when Israel Navy commandos stormed the ship.


Defense Minister Ehud Barak

Photo by: Archive

In a press conference hours after the incident, Barak said that Israel was prepared to accept the consequences of its actions and would continue to protect its autonomy.

Barak voiced regret for the deaths, but called the flotilla a political provocation by and said the sponsors of the flotilla were violent supporters of a terror organization.

yet BBC don't mention that?

source: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/barak-organizers-of-gaza-flotilla-to-blame-for-deadly-clashes-1.293187

[Technologic]

Quite interesting how one sided this news article actually is, as to be honest Israel accepted they did wrong:


yet BBC don't mention that?

source: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/barak-organizers-of-gaza-flotilla-to-blame-for-deadly-clashes-1.293187

Chairs hardly constitute as weapons.

[Jordy]

They may well regret it but they have not apologised nor will they co-operate with investigations or send someone to a war crime tribunal. Just a few months ago, Israeli assassins used British Passports to assassinate a Hamas leader in Dubai, this country really is not an alley.

[DaveTaylor]

Chairs hardly constitute as weapons.

Where is their any mentions of chairs?

---------- Post added 31-05-2010 at 11:53 AM ----------

That just shows how easy it is to fake a passport though lol, I am sorry but it's true, the british government is corrupt as any other government at the moment and alley? without Israel their would be a lot of military weaponry we use today that wouldn't be around and is it just me or are you against the fact a Hamas leader was killed?

[BeanEgg]

Dave, they are sorry that they didn't find any weapons to be used against the Jews.

They blatantly know that there was only AID going to the Palestinians seeing as they have them on lock down.

If they believe there are weapons going through international waters, they should have told the UN. They don't have a right to police and prosecute people in international waters.

[Technologic]

Where is their any mentions of chairs?

---------- Post added 31-05-2010 at 11:53 AM ----------

That just shows how easy it is to fake a passport though lol, I am sorry but it's true, the british government is corrupt as any other government at the moment and alley? without Israel their would be a lot of military weaponry we use today that wouldn't be around and is it just be or are you against the fact a Hamas leader was killed?

Watch the video in the article i posted. And he may have been a Hamas leader but it doesn't mean israel can just enter another country, assassinate him and deny the whole thing. Israel is a reckless state that should never have existed, they have no claim to that area other than what's written in a book of fairytales. They have no right to hold over 1.5 million people prisoner. They have no right to block essential aid from reaching these people.

[Jordy]

That just shows how easy it is to fake a passport though lol, I am sorry but it's true, the british government is corrupt as any other government at the moment and alley? without Israel their would be a lot of military weaponry we use today that wouldn't be around and is it just me or are you against the fact a Hamas leader was killed?I am against his killing yes, you may well consider Hamas terrorists but they were beginning to make a lot of progress in Gaza until they were obliterated by the Israelis. Now there is no cement in Gaza, not enough food/water, no control of the air or sea, not enough of any resources and Israel doesn't even give them enough power so there's constant power cuts. It is a crisis in Gaza and most the world is turning a blind eye, there only way out of it is fighting Israel and who can blame them.

Just because it's easy to fake a passport does not mean it should be done to use the British as scapegoats and cover up an assassination.

[DaveTaylor]

I am against his killing yes, you may well consider Hamas terrorists but they were beginning to make a lot of progress in Gaza until they were obliterated by the Israelis. Now there is no cement in Gaza, not enough food/water, no control of the air or sea, not enough of any resources and Israel doesn't even give them enough power so there's constant power cuts. It is a crisis in Gaza and most the world is turning a blind eye, there only way out of it is fighting Israel and who can blame them.

Just because it's easy to fake a passport does not mean it should be done to use the British as scapegoats and cover up an assassination.

Amazing that, the media has got you, Hamas does good for the people of Gaza, dude are you ******* mad? Look past the BBC and the Sky news and actually read up on the subject, hamas imprison their own people, use the children as targets for Israel, treat the people as objects and not human beings, actually understand what is happening out there before you post ********. The fact is Israel have offered several times to give out convoys into Gaza, if you read the right news and listen to the right news you would know about this but Hamas, being who they are could you see them accepting things from Israel? **** no, would they hell, and then things like this happen, they use it to manipulate the British and other people as they already know everyone has a bias opinion on the situation and actually Israel didn't cover up any assassination they admitted this did the assassination, they just didn't admit they faked a passport as again if you read about the situation again they were told by the British and American government not to use fake ones and just use real ones as the assassinations had legit British citizenship. This happens all the time with the media and the way the news runs, they air something and when they realise it's wrong they remove the details and cover up their ass.


Watch the video in the article i posted. And he may have been a Hamas leader but it doesn't mean israel can just enter another country, assassinate him and deny the whole thing. Israel is a reckless state that should never have existed, they have no claim to that area other than what's written in a book of fairytales. They have no right to hold over 1.5 million people prisoner. They have no right to block essential aid from reaching these people.


I'm not even going to response too half this post as you sir are a ******.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Quite interesting how one sided this news article actually is, as to be honest Israel accepted they did wrong:


yet BBC don't mention that?

source: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/barak-organizers-of-gaza-flotilla-to-blame-for-deadly-clashes-1.293187

The BBC have had pressure piled on them time after time by the Israeli government which not long ago stopped a aid pledge being shown on the BBC to help save poor palestinians who were bombed using phospherous.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E21MdXe3BOQ



Where is their any mentions of chairs?

---------- Post added 31-05-2010 at 11:53 AM ----------

That just shows how easy it is to fake a passport though lol, I am sorry but it's true, the british government is corrupt as any other government at the moment and alley? without Israel their would be a lot of military weaponry we use today that wouldn't be around and is it just me or are you against the fact a Hamas leader was killed?

Hamas are the elected government of Palestine along with Fatah and therefore have a right to rule. They are legitimate and elected which you cannot argue with. They are not terrorists, Mossad who are the Israeli secret service are the terrorists who abducted a man who exposed their illegal nuclear weapons programme to the British press a few decades ago. Palestine is occupied wrongly and the government of Palestine has a right to defend and take back its legitimate territory just as any British government would have done under a Nazi occupation - they have the moral highground no matter how you try to word it.

I am against the killing of a Hamas leader by Israel, damn right I am.

[DaveTaylor]

The BBC have had pressure piled on them time after time by the Israeli government which not long ago stopped a aid pledge being shown on the BBC to help save poor palestinians who were bombed using phospherous.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E21MdXe3BOQ




Hamas are the elected government of Palestine along with Fatah and therefore have a right to rule. They are legitimate and elected which you cannot argue with. They are not terrorists, Mossad who are the Israeli secret service are the terrorists who abducted a man who exposed their illegal nuclear weapons programme to the British press a few decades ago. Palestine is occupied wrongly and the government of Palestine has a right to defend and take back its legitimate territory just as any British government would have done under a Nazi occupation - they have the moral highground no matter how you try to word it.

I am against the killing of a Hamas leader by Israel, damn right I am.

Oh my god, you clearly have no idea about of of this at all, yes they are elected, so what, do you know about how that happened? did you know it was all set up and was rigged due to the fear of what hamas does to people in Gaza, the fact they torture families to help them rid of Israel, they take children away from families to do these things to win the people that they now have. Also Israel doesn't have illegal nuclear weapons it's been known for years they have a nuclear weapons way before this huge exposure thing, do you know why he was abducted? due to him trying to sell information which was given to them from the USA, there was a huge thing about it on discovery a couple of weeks ago. Hamas are getting weapons from Iran, been proved several times, it is clear what their intention is, they are terrorists.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Oh my god, you clearly have no idea about of of this at all, yes they are elected, so what, do you know about how that happened? did you know it was all set up and was rigged due to the fear of what hamas does to people in Gaza, the fact they torture families to help them rid of Israel, they take children away from families to do these things to win the people that they now have over the people. Also Israel doesn't have illegal nuclear weapons it's been known for years they have a nuclear weapons way before this huge exposure thing, do you know why he was abducted? due to him trying to sell information which was given to them from the USA, there was a huge thing about it on discovery a couple of weeks ago. Hamas are getting weapons from Iran, been proved several times, it is clear what their intention is, they are terrorists.

Hamas were elected to help them get rid of Israel you are totally correct and do you know why that is? - because Israel is an artifical state which has no moral right in the modern world to be where it is and in the method it took over. The situation is exactly the same as any German invasion of British soil - immoral and illegal. I am not disputing what Hamas has and hasnt done but thats expected in a war situation in an islamic nation.

Israel do have nuclear weapons and only a fool could think otherwise, the pictures are out there and Israel does not even deny the charge that it has nuclear weapons. The US Office of Technology Assessment has record Israel as a country which has a chemical and biological warfare program. Iran wants nuclear weapons because Israel has them and why should Iran be stopped afterall? - Israel has not signed any treaties and acts like a child in denying it has any nuclear weapons whilst also using its secret service Mossad like some despotic regime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

If the man was lying then why did the Israeli government and secret service feel the need to abduct him. I mean for godsakes they dont even deny they have the nuclear weapons (well they cant really can they seeing as the world now has pictures of Israels nuclear weapons programme. Here are some of the pictures below to anybody who wants to have a look;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c9/Dimona11.11.68.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/Vanunu-glove-box-bomb-components.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/49/Vanuunu-Article.jpg

To see the biased that exists against Palestine from the media you can see here where George Galloway shows how biased the coverage of this conflict is. It is Israel which is in the wrong, it is Israel who is the aggressor and it is Israel which had led to the instability in the Middle East. Israel abducts Palestinians, it uses fake British passports to carry out barbaric assainations, it abducts Lebanese people and it uses white phospherus bombs on Palestinian civillians - shame on Israel.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw

The white phosphorus attacks on Palestine (a sticky chemical substance which burns to the bone and which water cannot stop)



http://isiria.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/white-phosphorus.jpg



http://www.google.co.uk/images?um=1&hl=en&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=israel+white+phosphorus&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=israel+white+&gs_rfai= (be aware, graphic images of awful skin burns)

[DaveTaylor]

Hamas were elected to help them get rid of Israel you are totally correct and do you know why that is? - because Israel is an artifical state which has no moral right in the modern world to be where it is and in the method it took over. The situation is exactly the same as any German invasion of British soil - immoral and illegal. I am not disputing what Hamas has and hasnt done but thats expected in a war situation in an islamic nation.

Israel do have nuclear weapons and only a fool could think otherwise, the pictures are out there and Israel does not even deny the charge that it has nuclear weapons. The US Office of Technology Assessment has record Israel as a country which has a chemical and biological warfare program. Iran wants nuclear weapons because Israel has them and why should Iran be stopped afterall? - Israel has not signed any treaties and acts like a child in denying it has any nuclear weapons whilst also using its secret service Mossad like some despotic regime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

If the man was lying then why did the Israeli government and secret service feel the need to abduct him. I mean for godsakes they dont even deny they have the nuclear weapons (well they cant really can they seeing as the world now has pictures of Israels nuclear weapons programme. Here are some of the pictures below to anybody who wants to have a look;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c9/Dimona11.11.68.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/Vanunu-glove-box-bomb-components.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/49/Vanuunu-Article.jpg

To see the biased that exists against Palestine from the media you can see here where George Galloway shows how biased the coverage of this conflict is. It is Israel which is in the wrong, it is Israel who is the aggressor and it is Israel which had led to the instability in the Middle East. Israel abducts Palestinians, it uses fake British passports to carry out barbaric assainations, it abducts Lebanese people and it uses white phospherus bombs on Palestinian civillians - shame on Israel.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw

The white phosphorus attacks on Palestine (a sticky chemical substance which burns to the bone and which water cannot stop)



http://isiria.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/white-phosphorus.jpg



http://www.google.co.uk/images?um=1&hl=en&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=israel+white+phosphorus&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=israel+white+&gs_rfai= (be aware, graphic images of awful skin burns)



Did I say the man was lying no I did not, he had information that was secret between Israel and the USA, the fact they had to abduct him was due to the USA information Israel had was top secret and is still not known today, probably been destroyed. Israel didn't use fake passports, they used legit passports which the British government gave them, however they where covered in the media as fake, again, the media twisting things, the mossad members where and still are British citizens, also, the white phosphorus bombs, you clearly have no idea, November last year, a boat was seized my USA troops out in the sea, filled with white phosphorus bombs, these where heading for Hamas terroist groups, Israel where ordered by the USA to blow these up, due to the chemical deadliness of them, in the actions Israel hit them hard with several hundred rockets, which did indeed make Palestinian causalities.

On the nuclear front i've stood within 1-2 km's from the nuclear plant which is surrounded by army, you can go see it, and you can see it from google earth, simple as. The issue you and everyone else has on the forum who is trying to side with the media here is the fact you are just showing the evidence they gave out, nothing new which can counter what has been shown after the media which has proven the media wrong over and over.


You do realise we could be at this all day as the media has so much ******** about all these cases.

[Eoin]

Hamas and the PLO are considered to be 'terrorist organisations' by the UK, USA and Israeli governments. Media will be mostly biased towards Israel.
Palestine needs to be freed before the Israeli scum finish their holocaust against the Palestinians.

[dbgtz]

isnt israel where jesus was born?
that might have some affect why the west dont do nout

[MrPinkPanther]

Whether or not Hamas are justified is irrelevant, it doesn't detract from the fact that this is an aid ship. Not a military ship, an aid ship. Its completely wrong and disgusting that they should attack such a thing, to me it equates to killing blameless civilians.

[Eoin]

http://i46.tinypic.com/4vfo1y.jpg

[Technologic]

http://i46.tinypic.com/4vfo1y.jpg

Sums it up really!

[ifuseekamy]

Jews/Israelis have too much wealth, technology and industry for any country to want to take a stand.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Did I say the man was lying no I did not, he had information that was secret between Israel and the USA, the fact they had to abduct him was due to the USA information Israel had was top secret and is still not known today, probably been destroyed. Israel didn't use fake passports, they used legit passports which the British government gave them, however they where covered in the media as fake, again, the media twisting things, the mossad members where and still are British citizens, also, the white phosphorus bombs, you clearly have no idea, November last year, a boat was seized my USA troops out in the sea, filled with white phosphorus bombs, these where heading for Hamas terroist groups, Israel where ordered by the USA to blow these up, due to the chemical deadliness of them, in the actions Israel hit them hard with several hundred rockets, which did indeed make Palestinian causalities.

On the nuclear front i've stood within 1-2 km's from the nuclear plant which is surrounded by army, you can go see it, and you can see it from google earth, simple as. The issue you and everyone else has on the forum who is trying to side with the media here is the fact you are just showing the evidence they gave out, nothing new which can counter what has been shown after the media which has proven the media wrong over and over.


You do realise we could be at this all day as the media has so much ******** about all these cases.

The fact they had to abduct him was because he made a mockery of the Jewish state and exposed its nuclear weapons program. Israels nuclear weapons programme is a 'open secret' and is not signatory of any nuclear treaties therefore it is illegal in the sense that North Koreas weapons are also illegal - they both created them in secret and refuse to acknowledge international groundwork rules on that area. On the white phosperhus issue, i'm sorry but Israel used the chemical over Palestinian towns and cities in full knowledge of what they were using - it wasnt some hit on a ship because white phospherus cannot possibly travel that far.

I will repeat yet again, Hamas are not a terrorist group. Hamas are the elected government of Palestine along with Fatah. The Palestinian people voted in Hamas just like the British people voted in the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats to the seat of government. Let us ask ourselves this; if Britain was occupied by Nazi Germany and the elected British government-in exile started attempting to take back its territory, would the government be a terrorist organisation in its efforts? - in the Nazi response that would be yes, the moral response would be no as they are fighting for their land back. It is all about morals and Israel has no moral right to exist on land which is not their own.

The media is not in the wrong, I know you would like (like many on here) the free press/newspapers not to report what you do not like but the fact is that Israel has an illegal nuclear weapons programme and the passports issue - the British government did not authorise Israeli authorities and secret services to duplicate the passports and nor did the Austrialian government. Israel has now fired on a aid ship and continues to keep Gaza under pressure by blocking aid and other resources. It continues to build on land that it does not own in an attempt to colonise the land in its favour. Israel is the terrorist state, free Palestine.

You accuse the media of fixing the facts and the truth yet you have just done that yourself so how can I trust a word you say in return. Israel forged British and Austrialian passports without the consent of our country or Austrialia hence why they both expelled Israeli diplomats in response.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8582518.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia_pacific/10145459.stm

[BeanEgg]

Funny how Israeli's continue firing at the ship after a white-flag.#
They are in international waters, and not even in the 68mile exclusion zone, 68 MILES.


This video SHOWS how pathetic the Israelis are. - Please watch the entire video it's very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB-Mk4bFz-U&feature=player_embedded#!

[Technologic]

If Israel is so innocent and brave then why do they employ thousands of people to post pro-israel propaganda on message boards and vote for pro-israel choices in polls?

http://giyus.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4f/Megaphone_screenshot.jpg


The Megaphone Desktop Tool gives the user the option of going to a particular site with a poll, and if the user chooses to go to the site, the software then casts a vote automatically, when this is technically feasible. The vote is chosen by the distributors of Megaphone.
Giyus tries to save you the time and effort of locating the voting form inside the website, a seemingly simple task that may prove quite confusing at certain sites. Whenever we technically can we direct you straight to the voting action. If you have arrived at the poll results, it means that you were directed straight to the voting action and have already successfully voted. If for some reason you don't care to vote, you can always use the "No Thanks" link in the article alert popup. [9]
In the original version, the user was offered the option to vote or not to vote (see screenshot above), but was not offered the option to choose their own vote.
The software license provides for remote updates: "You understand and agree that Giyus.Org may provide updates, patches and/or new versions of the Software from time to time, including automatic updates that will be installed on your computer, with notice to You, as needed to continue to use the Services, and You hereby authorize such installations."

[FlyingJesus]

without Israel their would be a lot of military weaponry we use today that wouldn't be around

So you're justifying the billions we have spent and the lives that have been lost in all the fighting around Israel by saying that without them we wouldn't have had to make new weaponry? I hardly think getting a bigger gun is a good trade for creating an illegal state of terrorists.


hamas imprison their own people

Every single government imprisons their own people, if they only imprisoned foreigners then native crime would be somewhat rampant. You got a real point here or what?


The fact is Israel have offered several times to give out convoys into Gaza

Yeah they seem a real charitable lot, attacking aid ships that aren't even in their own territory and seizing control.


the fact they torture families to help them rid of Israel

So it's Israel's fault that these things are necessary then, you seem to suggest. If they hadn't been illegally given land to form a new state (read: Western army base) then a good many atrocities would have been avoided.


Hamas are getting weapons from Iran, been proved several times, it is clear what their intention is, they are terrorists.

Their intention is to fight for their land. It's not terrorism if you're the government in control and have been so badly wronged. A far better example of terrorism is having your military board aid ships bound for disaster areas and take them away, killing a few people in the process. Fairly sure I heard of something like that happen just recently.



Now I wait for the inevitable OMG YOU'VE BEEN BRAINWASHED BY THE MEDIA response, as though anything else were possible from this far away.

[Technologic]

Criticising Israel equates to anti-semitism apparently....

[FlyingJesus]

Just checked, the word "Jew" has been used an entire THREE TIMES in this thread (well four now) and each time in context so yes I think that definitely means we are all anti-Semites and should be ashamed of our lack of tolerance to terrorist attacks.

[DaveTaylor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPB-RGFdT6Y

[-:Undertaker:-]

Dave is that all you can respond with - that the media has some big conspiracy to brainwash us all?

I dont know whether you understand this conflict or not, but Israel took land from the Mandate of Palestine and established it as its own - that is a fact, just as much as a fact as it is that this boat was in international waters when Israel raided the ship (personally if my ship was being raided by soliders in international waters I would also resist them). In this thread time and time again you have dismissed everything that Israel has done the worst being the nuclear weapons program - I do hope you are not against Iran having their own nuclear weapons because that really would be the height of hypocrisy.

If anything the media is the wrong way around, as shown by the biased in the questions put to George Galloway which I posted earlier.

[alexxxxx]

i have no doubt there are a few weirdos on the ship to gaza, but people who are willing to dedicate themselves to this problem are going to have an extremist view on the world, so im not surprised that there were some glory knives on the boat at all. if the israelies wanted to deal with it calmly (or at least approach it calmly) they should have waited until the ship came into territorial waters in the day time and ask what was going on calmly without any sort of heavy weaponry. a raid at 4am in the morning for heavens sake!?

[DaveTaylor]

Dave is that all you can respond with - that the media has some big conspiracy to brainwash us all?

I dont know whether you understand this conflict or not, but Israel took land from the Mandate of Palestine and established it as its own - that is a fact, just as much as a fact as it is that this boat was in international waters when Israel raided the ship (personally if my ship was being raided by soliders in international waters I would also resist them). In this thread time and time again you have dismissed everything that Israel has done the worst being the nuclear weapons program - I do hope you are not against Iran having their own nuclear weapons because that really would be the height of hypocrisy.

If anything the media is the wrong way around, as shown by the biased in the questions put to George Galloway which I posted earlier.

Undertaker, shut your mouth and learn for once, they are at war, simple, as that, the land is technically no-one's however when the state of Israel was declared it was included with in the agreement but never actually taken at the time. If you listen to the video I posted which is the truth, you'll understand that it was agreed on international waters Israel where and are allowed too for several years to check vessels going into Gaza due to Hamas, the terrorists getting arms from other countries, this has been going on for years, we before the blockade even went up, I think 2003 was the date. You need to understand commando's don't actually raid any ship, they are taught to use friendly fire unless fired upon same as any commando on a British navy ship, I am sorry, but the fact of the matter is if a check like this, which has been done on a daily routine for the less 7 years now, and they are attacked the commando's are going to return fire, it's simple.

Iran can have nuclear weapons all they want, I have no issue with this, the worry is if they threaten Israel with attack of nuclear weapons in the future as I am sorry to say, Israel being Israel really won't give a **** about people at a point like that and will go full out with the army and send everything in.

ps: i'm in a lazy mood tonight so don't expect a prompt response MattGarner is keeping me updated on the thread if anything is needing referred too.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Undertaker, shut your mouth and learn for once, they are at war, simple, as that, the land is technically no-one's however when the state of Israel was declared it was included with in the agreement but never actually taken at the time. If you listen to the video I posted which is the truth, you'll understand that it was agreed on international waters Israel where and are allowed too for several years to check vessels going into Gaza due to Hamas, the terrorists getting arms from other countries, this has been going on for years, we before the blockade even went up, I think 2003 was the date. You need to understand commando's don't actually raid any ship, they are taught to use friendly fire unless fired upon same as any commando on a British navy ship, I am sorry, but the fact of the matter is if a check like this, which has been done on a daily routine for the less 7 years now, and they are attacked the commando's are going to return fire, it's simple.

I will not shut my mouth because numerous time here you have outrightly lied to me. You said from what I recall that the Israelis had clearance from the British government for using British & Austrialian passports for an assasination - that was an outright lie because the governments of Britain and Austrialia did not have clearance and thus expelled Israeli diplomats because of that reason.

The terrorists are getting arms from other countries? - I think you need to turn that around and realise that it is Israel which gets all of its weaponary, its money and expertise from the United States. Infact without the United States happily holding up the state of Israel, it would be toast by now and with good reason from the Arab point of view. The land was not Israel's and belongs to the Palestinian people - while I would like in an ideal world for Israel to cease to exist and for Palestine to regain control of its border I realise this is not possible and that a seperate Palestinian state must be established - however this cannot be done or achieved by Israel attacking and annexing parts of Syria, Lebannon and Palestine in an effort to basically colonise more land in their favour by building new settlements.

Israel also struck Iraqs nuclear plant a few decades ago and condemns (along with the lapdog west) Iran for pursuing a nuclear programme - what right does Israel (a nation not even 100 years old) have over states whose successor states have been there for thousands of years?

You often declare how with issues such as this one, the media has somehow brainwashed everyone into being against Israel - well i'm sorry but when Israel behave like savages its well deserved criticism of Israel and it'll continue because the idea that you can pull the wool over our eyes is very wrong indeed. You say the land does not belong to anybody - the land belongs to Palestine whether you like it or not.

[FlyingJesus]

the land is technically no-one's

Where are you getting this from?


due to Hamas, the terrorists getting arms from other countries, this has been going on for years

Which is different to Israel, the terrorists, getting arms from other countries in what way?


You need to understand commando's don't actually raid any ship, they are taught to use friendly fire

Somehow I don't think they're taught to shoot each other.


Israel being Israel really won't give a **** about people

Most intelligent thing you've said all thread.

[DaveTaylor]

I will not shut my mouth because numerous time here you have outrightly lied to me. You said from what I recall that the Israelis had clearance from the British government for using British & Austrialian passports for an assasination - that was an outright lie because the governments of Britain and Austrialia did not have clearance and thus expelled Israeli diplomats because of that reason.

They expelled them doing the inquest into the situation, they are already back in the country

The terrorists are getting arms from other countries? - I think you need to turn that around and realise that it is Israel which gets all of its weaponary, its money and expertise from the United States. Infact without the United States happily holding up the state of Israel, it would be toast by now and with good reason from the Arab point of view. The land was not Israel's and belongs to the Palestinian people - while I would like in an ideal world for Israel to cease to exist and for Palestine to regain control of its border I realise this is not possible and that a seperate Palestinian state must be established - however this cannot be done or achieved by Israel attacking and annexing parts of Syria, Lebannon and Palestine in an effort to basically colonise more land in their favour by building new settlements.

I am not disagreeing with the fact America funds Israel, but without Israel you wouldn't be sitting at a decent computer, so it counteracts in many ways. The issue with the deeds to the lands will never be settled as it was signed over to Israel after the second world war. The US funds Israel for it's reasons, and it's been proven several times that Iran etc fund arms to terrorist groups so don't even try deny that one.

Israel also struck Iraqs nuclear plant a few decades ago and condemns (along with the lapdog west) Iran for pursuing a nuclear programme - what right does Israel (a nation not even 100 years old) have over states whose successor states have been there for thousands of years?

Israel as a nation has been around for less than 100 years, so has Iraq, Iraq became independent in 1952. Before that it was owned by the British.

[-:Undertaker:-]

They expelled them doing the inquest into the situation, they are already back in the country

You said that Britain had given permission/clearence for the passports to be used - this was false. The British and Austrialian governments did not give Israel permission or clearence to use their passports to take out a leader of Hamas.


I am not disagreeing with the fact America funds Israel, but without Israel you wouldn't be sitting at a decent computer, so it counteracts in many ways. The issue with the deeds to the lands will never be settled as it was signed over to Israel after the second world war. The US funds Israel for it's reasons, and it's been proven several times that Iran etc fund arms to terrorist groups so don't even try deny that one.

I really couldnt care about what part of my computer Israel has or has not invented. I'd give up my computer tommorow if it would establish a Palestinian state. If you are to complain about funding to others then you must also accept that Israel itself is also funded by the United States - so why is Israel perfectly in the right to be given nuclear materials, funding and weapons but Hamas and Palestine dont have that right?. You also state terrorism yet again, but surely Mossad are the terrorists who travel across borders much like the SS and KGB did in the Third Reich and Soviet Union. Or am I wrong because its Israel so it must surely be in the right?


Israel as a nation has been around for less than 100 years, so has Iraq, Iraq became independent in 1952. Before that it was owned by the British.

There is a very big difference. I have mentioned successor states to cover that - read up on successor states and the idea behind it and you'll then understand fully what I said rather than trying to nit pick my last post.

[DaveTaylor]

You said that Britain had given permission/clearence for the passports to be used - this was false. The British and Austrialian governments did not give Israel permission or clearence to use their passports to take out a leader of Hamas.

Read up on the MI6 enquiry into it.

I really couldnt care about what part of my computer Israel has or has not invented. I'd give up my computer tommorow if it would establish a Palestinian state. You state terrorism again, but surely Mossad are the terrorists who travel across borders much like the SS and KGB did in the Third Reich and Soviet Union. Or am I wrong because its Israel so it must surely be in the right?

So do the British Services? Problem is we never hear about those attacks as it's the British/American's.


There is a very big difference. I have mentioned successor states to cover that - read up on successor states and the idea behind it and you'll then understand fully what I said rather than trying to nit pick my last post.

.............

Also latest video's coming out from the other vessels are showing the Israel commando's being hit etc and the commando's actually using paint ball guns before using deadly force...

[FlyingJesus]

Yeah I imagine they probably didn't like being attacked.

[BeanEgg]

Knowing Israelis, that was an act of self-defense. No one one earth would accept a nation's armed forces fast roping on to a civilian boat carrying nothing but aid.

I myself, would have DEFINITELY attacked the commandos, they have no right to intercept.

Now, who can we trust? Everyone on the ships were taken in custody, wouldn't be surprised if they confiscated specific videos in order to 'fix' an alibi.

Face it, the pathetic, State of Israel is now hated by the world. People are now opening their eyes to see how wrong Israel is.

This is not anti-semitic, as there are some Jews whom are Anti-Zionists and I salute them with pride.