Cameron wants nation to appreciate armed forces

[Hitman]

The public should express its appreciation of Britain's military "more loudly and more proudly", Prime Minister David Cameron said.
Speaking ahead of Armed Forces Day, he said the country had a "social responsibility" to show its thanks.
Writing in the Sunday Telegraph, Mr Cameron also called for "an explosion of red, white and blue" to mark Saturday's events.
Celebrations will take place across the country, with a main event in Cardiff.
Mr Cameron said his recent trip to Afghanistan, his first as prime minister, had served as a reminder of the risks faced by troops.



Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10359155.stm

Hear hear! I'm starting to like David Cameron, he is a lot more patriotic than Brown. For example, this, along with the English flag above 10 Downing street to mark support for the England team, and then he told council bosses/staff to not be spoilsports and to allow flags on cars/taxis/dustbin lorrys, etc.

[GommeInc]

Bit of an odd article really. If you ask anyone this or tell them, they just say "we support them enough already". It's not realy something you go running to the streets for every five minutes. When some troops return home, they get a warm welcome.

[Bun]

bit of a crowd pleasing statement but nevertheless, fair play to him. i completely agree.

[Swastika]

I can't see people taking down their England flags for the weekend and putting up the Union Jack, however i think this is good and we should all appreciate our Armed Forces abit more.

[Hitman]

Bit of an odd article really. If you ask anyone this or tell them, they just say "we support them enough already". It's not realy something you go running to the streets for every five minutes. When some troops return home, they get a warm welcome.Indeed they do get warm welcomes, apart from nowadays there are nutty Islamic extremists calling them murderers... now if David really supports them maybe he'd do something about that...

[alexxxxx]

Indeed they do get warm welcomes, apart from nowadays there are nutty Islamic extremists calling them murderers... now if David really supports them maybe he'd do something about that...

that's right, shut up everyone who you don't agree with. :rolleyes:

[Hitman]

that's right, shut up everyone who you don't agree with. :rolleyes:

I'd have you shut up... ;)

They can have freedom of speech (even though they despise it - take a look at my little friends below) - but shouting 'murderers' and other nasty insults could be classed as harassment - and in one case it was, a few young Muslims had chanted similar things to returning troops and were sent to court. Of course, this country being such a laughing stock they got off.

Oh yeah, here are my friendly little friends. They love us.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2yz0qba.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/5mbnuq.jpg

There is freedom of speech and there's utter hatred, threats and violence.

But no, you're right, the troops are nothing. Why should we let them have a peaceful home coming? All they do is go to some weird country and risk their lives... and kill people who want us dead... pfft MURDERERS! :rolleyes:

[alexxxxx]

I'd have you shut up... ;)

They can have freedom of speech (even though they despise it - take a look at my little friends below) - but shouting 'murderers' and other nasty insults could be classed as harassment - and in one case it was, a few young Muslims had chanted similar things to returning troops and were sent to court. Of course, this country being such a laughing stock they got off.

Oh yeah, here are my friendly little friends. They love us.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2yz0qba.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/5mbnuq.jpg

There is freedom of speech and there's utter hatred, threats and violence.

But no, you're right, the troops are nothing. Why should we let them have a peaceful home coming? All they do is go to some weird country and risk their lives... and kill people who want us dead... pfft MURDERERS! :rolleyes:
this is free speech imo. you have to accept there will be people you agree with and people who you don't. whether or not its harrasment is up to the court.

it's a thing with the army. there are people who against all conflict or just certain conflicts. it's part of the job - you have to accept your actions will not be acceptable to everyone's standards and you have to bare (somewhat) the brunt of that.

i think the army is given enough respect as it is imo.

[Hitman]

this is free speech imo. you have to accept there will be people you agree with and people who you don't. whether or not its harrasment is up to the court.

it's a thing with the army. there are people who against all conflict or just certain conflicts. it's part of the job - you have to accept your actions will not be acceptable to everyone's standards and you have to bare (somewhat) the brunt of that.

i think the army is given enough respect as it is imo.
Oh I do accept this, it would be very ignorant not to. I have debates with a few people I know irl regularly and they have very, very different opinions to me. I imagine many people are against murder and so they are against the war - but the soldiers are just doing their jobs. The Government are the ones who tell them where to go and what to do, the soldiers obey to protect the country. Some may argue that this war isn't protecting our country, and it very well might not be, but that's the Governments fault/problem/issue not the soldier's.

[alexxxxx]

Oh I do accept this, it would be very ignorant not to. I have debates with a few people I know irl regularly and they have very, very different opinions to me. I imagine many people are against murder and so they are against the war - but the soldiers are just doing their jobs. The Government are the ones who tell them where to go and what to do, the soldiers obey to protect the country. Some may argue that this war isn't protecting our country, and it very well might not be, but that's the Governments fault/problem/issue not the soldier's.
that's it 'soldiers are doing their job' and that's what being a soldier is - a job. A poorly paid one, because as sad as it sounds, unemploy(-able/ed) young men are 'a dime a dozen' in some areas and unfortunately their only choices are being on the dole or earn a bit more being a soldier. I'm sure some people go into the army for the love of their country or the job itself but some simply have to go to better themselves as they didn't have the opportunity to do so beforehand. You see it on the adverts on the TV for the army, they almost portray it as a training camp rather than really the seriousness of the job.

[Hitman]

that's it 'soldiers are doing their job' and that's what being a soldier is - a job. A poorly paid one, because as sad as it sounds, unemploy(-able/ed) young men are 'a dime a dozen' in some areas and unfortunately their only choices are being on the dole or earn a bit more being a soldier. I'm sure some people go into the army for the love of their country or the job itself but some simply have to go to better themselves as they didn't have the opportunity to do so beforehand. You see it on the adverts on the TV for the army, they almost portray it as a training camp rather than really the seriousness of the job.
In that case they should not be badgered for doing their job - just as firemen, police, doctors, etc. shouldn't be hassled for doing their jobs.

Many people go into the army for the love of the job - you don't just join the army or the armed forces because you need money. By joining you are putting your life on the line; you may never see your family again, you may never do what you love to do again so it is a BIG decision. Most people would rather go on the dole than fight in a foreign country and possibly die so they must really want to go for it.

Anyway you have your opinion, and I have mine which is the opposite.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I would understand what Cameron is saying if only for one thing;- at the moment our country is facing cuts thanks to the last Labour government whilst also fighting a war in Afghanistan with our soldiers already under-equipped and 4 times more likely to die than their American counterparts. Now in the emergency budget its very likely defence spending is going to be cut right back (understandable if you have to save money) but what isnt understandable is that our defence budgets get cut whilst our foreign aid is being increased and our direct EU payments are being increased.

I'm not falling for Cameron and the Conservatives PR stunts anymore and i'd suggest to anybody else to take the same line - they are not remotely patriotic anymore and are something that sadly resembles the dreadful Labour Party in every shape and form.

[alexxxxx]

In that case they should not be badgered for doing their job - just as firemen, police, doctors, etc. shouldn't be hassled for doing their jobs.

No they shouldn't but also they shouldn't be getting 'big props' for doing their job too. Sure they should be appreciated, but they shouldn't gain some sort of heroic status where their judgements cannot be put under scrutiny. Unprofessional conduct in the army happens, it shouldn't be hidden just so we can have an image of whiter than white.


Many people go into the army for the love of the job - you don't just join the army or the armed forces because you need money. By joining you are putting your life on the line; you may never see your family again, you may never do what you love to do again so it is a BIG decision. Most people would rather go on the dole than fight in a foreign country and possibly die so they must really want to go for it.

Anyway you have your opinion, and I have mine which is the opposite.

The people i've heard of and know of who have applied or thought of joining the armed forces are people that frankly don't have the skills to go to college/uni or even a job in most cases but would be ashamed to go on the dole. It's a matter of pride, being on "hand-outs" isn't good for self-esteem as there is a natural instinct for men to want to be self-sustainable, independent and also can provide for their family if they have one.

[Hitman]

No they shouldn't but also they shouldn't be getting 'big props' for doing their job too. Sure they should be appreciated, but they shouldn't gain some sort of heroic status where their judgements cannot be put under scrutiny. Unprofessional conduct in the army happens, it shouldn't be hidden just so we can have an image of whiter than white.


The people i've heard of and know of who have applied or thought of joining the armed forces are people that frankly don't have the skills to go to college/uni or even a job in most cases but would be ashamed to go on the dole. It's a matter of pride, being on "hand-outs" isn't good for self-esteem as there is a natural instinct for men to want to be self-sustainable, independent and also can provide for their family if they have one.
I'm not saying the army should be 'untouchable' and should not be allowed to be criticised - of course it should where it fails to do what it should, however being hassled or harassed for doing their job isn't fair. People can have their opinions but it's unfair to trouble people who are simply doing their jobs - the extremists should protest to the Government.

Exactly, my point is that it's not a light decision to join the army due to the risks. They can dent their pride but stay safe, or maintain it but risk their life. The people I know who've joined the army have done so because they wanted to fight for their country or because they want to do something worthwhile with their lives.

All I'm saying is that if a time comes, as in the past, where the UK is directly under threat, these men and women will be fighting for our freedom and security. Surely they should be honoured for that. I know they're in Afghanistan now and this war does not seem to directly affect us, but IF there was something directly affecting us then these people would be sent to deal with it.

[alexxxxx]

I'm not saying the army should be 'untouchable' and should not be allowed to be criticised - of course it should where it fails to do what it should, however being hassled or harassed for doing their job isn't fair. People can have their opinions but it's unfair to trouble people who are simply doing their jobs - the extremists should protest to the Government.

and they do. The stop the war protesters every time i go to london are there. Most of the army will have either signed up or renewed their contracts with the armed forces during the Iraq/Afghan war. They knew that this was a very likely place they were going.


Exactly, my point is that it's not a light decision to join the army due to the risks. They can dent their pride but stay safe, or maintain it but risk their life. The people I know who've joined the army have done so because they wanted to fight for their country or because they want to do something worthwhile with their lives.

Any soldier to be is unlikely to be a person who would want to dent their personal pride or make themselves feel less than someone else. That's why they join the army.



All I'm saying is that if a time comes, as in the past, where the UK is directly under threat, these men and women will be fighting for our freedom and security. Surely they should be honoured for that. I know they're in Afghanistan now and this war does not seem to directly affect us, but IF there was something directly affecting us then these people would be sent to deal with it.
And perhaps then they would deserve more respect. I feel you have to earn respect, not just gain it automatically.

I've never heard a soldier go on about how soldiers are not given enough respect in this country. It's usually the families of soldiers and the far right. The soldiers feel like they are doing their job.

[Hitman]

Any soldier to be is unlikely to be a person who would want to dent their personal pride or make themselves feel less than someone else. That's why they join the army.

Yes, so they then risk their lives by joining, which is a big thing. Would you risk your life to fight in Afghanistan?



And perhaps then they would deserve more respect. I feel you have to earn respect, not just gain it automatically.

I've never heard a soldier go on about how soldiers are not given enough respect in this country. It's usually the families of soldiers and the far right. The soldiers feel like they are doing their job.
Right, but the situation is the same: they are fighting and risking their lives. One has almost no impact on our daily lives, the other has more. At the end of the day they are still fighting and risking their lives for their country.

Me neither, and that is because it would seem like they're looking for attention or are looking big headed or something along those lines - maybe inside they are thinking that, but they might not say it out loud - I'm sure you have thought one thing but not said anything about it, we all have.

[alexxxxx]

Yes, so they then risk their lives by joining, which is a big thing. Would you risk your life to fight in Afghanistan?

This is a question that is always asked by people relentlessly defending the army. No I wouldn't because I have better prospects than most who contemplate joining the army and I can go to university and study to become a civil engineer.


Right, but the situation is the same: they are fighting and risking their lives. One has almost no impact on our daily lives, the other has more. At the end of the day they are still fighting and risking their lives for their country.

Honour someone for potentially doing something? I could potentially save someone's life in the future, should I be honoured? No of course not. Maybe i'm in the minority but i don't feel overwhelmed with a sense of pride when i see british soldiers. They are fighting because they are paid to do so, just like the british who fight in the French foreign legion and the gurkhas who fight for us. It's a way of bettering themselves. If I needed to i'd consider it. If I couldn't get an engineering job in the private sector i'd at least consider the army engineer corps.


Me neither, and that is because it would seem like they're looking for attention or are looking big headed or something along those lines - maybe inside they are thinking that, but they might not say it out loud - I'm sure you have thought one thing but not said anything about it, we all have.
I doubt it.

[Agnostic Bear]

this is free speech imo
No free speech in the UK. Getting these nutjobs off the streets and out of the country is a good idea.

[Hitman]

This is a question that is always asked by people relentlessly defending the army. No I wouldn't because I have better prospects than most who contemplate joining the army and I can go to university and study to become a civil engineer.

Honour someone for potentially doing something? I could potentially save someone's life in the future, should I be honoured? No of course not. Maybe i'm in the minority but i don't feel overwhelmed with a sense of pride when i see british soldiers. They are fighting because they are paid to do so, just like the british who fight in the French foreign legion and the gurkhas who fight for us. It's a way of bettering themselves. If I needed to i'd consider it. If I couldn't get an engineering job in the private sector i'd at least consider the army engineer corps.

I doubt it.

So for you becoming a civil engineer is what you want to do, and for some it's join the army and fight for the country. One could been seen better than the other in different people's eyes. And getting to a high rank in the army could prove much better.

Ugh nevermind you don't get it. If the UK is directly under threat, these troops will be whisked away from wherever they are and will be fighting against the enemy forces without a say or without question.

Well put yourself in their shoes or the shoes of any job - would you really burst out 'I need more respect for my job, bla bla bla' - NO. You'd look big headed or attention seeking.

Anyway I'm brining this to an end (at least on my part) as we're starting to fall into vortex of replies.

[GommeInc]

Indeed they do get warm welcomes, apart from nowadays there are nutty Islamic extremists calling them murderers... now if David really supports them maybe he'd do something about that...

Depends how he would go about it. As alexxxxx said, they have freedom of speech. What would be acceptable would be moving them away from the parade like they do with some other events, particularly political events, with force if necessary. They could probably try heavier penalties, as they do seem to be given light treatment compared to British nationalities/whities, especially when these protestors use death threats when all British protestors do is make peaceful protests (obviously some turn to physical violence, but that's physical abuse rather than verbal).

[Nixt]

http://i46.tinypic.com/2yz0qba.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/5mbnuq.jpg

I think it is wrong to generalise the behaviour of a select few to the whole religion of Islam. Yes there are some who are outrageous in their behaviour and beliefs but this is not the case for the whole Muslim community and a great many support the British Armed Forces as much as anyone else would.


that's it 'soldiers are doing their job' and that's what being a soldier is - a job. A poorly paid one, because as sad as it sounds, unemploy(-able/ed) young men are 'a dime a dozen' in some areas and unfortunately their only choices are being on the dole or earn a bit more being a soldier. I'm sure some people go into the army for the love of their country or the job itself but some simply have to go to better themselves as they didn't have the opportunity to do so beforehand. You see it on the adverts on the TV for the army, they almost portray it as a training camp rather than really the seriousness of the job.

It's a job, but a job that requires such bravery and commitment that I don't think you appreciate. I think it is outrageous that you should suggest a great many of those who join up are there simply to get a bit of money or better their lives. I, for one, joined because I wanted to do something worthwhile, despite the fact I could have stayed on in education and got a better job and earn a lot of money. Those I have served with in the past include some of the most intelligent people I have ever met, and I hate people whom make the assumption Soldiers are unemployable young men with no better prospects in life. The application procedure to join the army is intense and thorough, I know a few people who have got knocked back on the basis of their past - the type of past many people assume equates to an automatic decision to join the army.

I do think we should be appreciating our armed forces and I understand a lot of people do so already. It would be great if we could be, as Mr. Cameron has suggested, a bit more vocal about it. It's nice for our soldiers to know the job they are doing appreciated and although people do appreciate it, it is often difficult to tell.

[Eckuii]

We already do Davey.

[Hitman]

I think it is wrong to generalise the behaviour of a select few to the whole religion of Islam. Yes there are some who are outrageous in their behaviour and beliefs but this is not the case for the whole Muslim community and a great many support the British Armed Forces as much as anyone else would.



It's a job, but a job that requires such bravery and commitment that I don't think you appreciate. I think it is outrageous that you should suggest a great many of those who join up are there simply to get a bit of money or better their lives. I, for one, joined because I wanted to do something worthwhile, despite the fact I could have stayed on in education and got a better job and earn a lot of money. Those I have served with in the past include some of the most intelligent people I have ever met, and I hate people whom make the assumption Soldiers are unemployable young men with no better prospects in life. The application procedure to join the army is intense and thorough, I know a few people who have got knocked back on the basis of their past - the type of past many people assume equates to an automatic decision to join the army.

I do think we should be appreciating our armed forces and I understand a lot of people do so already. It would be great if we could be, as Mr. Cameron has suggested, a bit more vocal about it. It's nice for our soldiers to know the job they are doing appreciated and although people do appreciate it, it is often difficult to tell.
You're right, some Muslims join up, albeit this number is very small. My Muslim friend dislikes the army but I'm sure not all do.

Great post btw.

[alexxxxx]

It's a job, but a job that requires such bravery and commitment that I don't think you appreciate. I think it is outrageous that you should suggest a great many of those who join up are there simply to get a bit of money or better their lives. I, for one, joined because I wanted to do something worthwhile, despite the fact I could have stayed on in education and got a better job and earn a lot of money. Those I have served with in the past include some of the most intelligent people I have ever met, and I hate people whom make the assumption Soldiers are unemployable young men with no better prospects in life. The application procedure to join the army is intense and thorough, I know a few people who have got knocked back on the basis of their past - the type of past many people assume equates to an automatic decision to join the army.

I do think we should be appreciating our armed forces and I understand a lot of people do so already. It would be great if we could be, as Mr. Cameron has suggested, a bit more vocal about it. It's nice for our soldiers to know the job they are doing appreciated and although people do appreciate it, it is often difficult to tell.

We do need soldiers and i'm glad there are some, maybe it's just where I live, but all I know of people who have joined/are joining/or are considering of joining the only person who I know of who has some sort of prospect in life and wasn't forced into it through no other way was someone who decided they'd rather get a nursing degree through joining the RAF and them paying for it rather than paying for it themselves. I've had 2 uncles in the airforce and both have made a lot of money through bettering themselves. I'm only making generalisations on people that i know of, not just a stereotype.

I'm not even against the army/armed forces - i just think it's sad that the system requires large numbers of people to risk their lives for the country whether they want to or not to gain skills.

I'm not saying the army lets anyone in, far from it and i understand it requires a lot of hard work and determination.

I don't want our country turning into jingositic by putting our armed services beyond any sort of critisism or scrutiny and that it gets to the point where veterans are applauded before whale shows - like the USA at seaworld. It's a special job with responsibility but by taking part you are not a hero, unless you do something truly heroic or go beyond your call of duty. That's my view on the armed forces like it or not.

[Hitman]

We do need soldiers and i'm glad there are some, maybe it's just where I live, but all I know of people who have joined/are joining/or are considering of joining the only person who I know of who has some sort of prospect in life and wasn't forced into it through no other way was someone who decided they'd rather get a nursing degree through joining the RAF and them paying for it rather than paying for it themselves. I've had 2 uncles in the airforce and both have made a lot of money through bettering themselves. I'm only making generalisations on people that i know of, not just a stereotype.

I'm not even against the army/armed forces - i just think it's sad that the system requires large numbers of people to risk their lives for the country whether they want to or not to gain skills.

I'm not saying the army lets anyone in, far from it and i understand it requires a lot of hard work and determination.

I don't want our country turning into jingositic by putting our armed services beyond any sort of critisism or scrutiny and that it gets to the point where veterans are applauded before whale shows - like the USA at seaworld. It's a special job with responsibility but by taking part you are not a hero, unless you do something truly heroic or go beyond your call of duty. That's my view on the armed forces like it or not.

"i just think it's sad that the system requires large numbers of people to risk their lives for the country whether they want to or not to gain skills."

You're making it sound like they are conscripts or something. :S If they want to risk their lives and gain skills then they will join. If they don't want to risk their lives and gain skills then they won't join and maybe they'll do something else, like go to college.

I'm not, and others aren't saying that we should bow down to the soldiers every time they walk into a room, but they should be shown more respect in this situation where a group of people, who have probably never done anything worthwhile in their lives, chant and call them 'murderers' when they have just got back from Afghanistan. Of course they can be scrutinised and criticise, but shouting murderers at them is hardly criticising them.

Anyway I thought I was leaving this thread.