Raoul Moat Tribute Group?

[Mathew]

I saw an MP ask Mr Cameron the question on Prime Minister's Question Time earlier today and wondered what everyone's opinion is on this..

The MP asked the PM if he would be contacting Mark Zuckerberg and asking him to remove the tribute to Raoul Moat Group on Facebook.

Facebook have replied by saying they will not be removing the group because that's the point of Facebook - giving people to join in different discussions with different opinions.

What's your opinion on this? Do you think it should be removed?

BBC Article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-10633297

[alexxxxx]

I saw an MP ask Mr Cameron the question on Prime Minister's Question Time earlier today and wondered what everyone's opinion is on this..

The MP asked the PM if he would be contacting Mark Zuckerberg and asking him to remove the tribute to Raoul Moat Group on Facebook.

Facebook have replied by saying they will not be removing the group because that's the point of Facebook - giving people to join in different discussions with different opinions.

What's your opinion on this? Do you think it should be removed?

BBC Article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-10633297
they shouldn't be removed. i guess it's disrespectful but as long as they aren't attacking anyone in the facebook group then i don't see why not.

[Matthew]

i think it should be removed.
How anyone can say hes a legend or w/e is beyond me, if it was their family/friend who was attacked they wouldnt call him a legend then would they.
above all its disrespectful. this man is a murderer, he killed someones family, how anyone can be sympathetic for him i really dont understand :S
Having a tribute to him on facebook is just taking the piss a little, surely?

[Tintinnabulate]

No, the government should not be making such requests either. If people want to leave comments for him, then let them. They should not stop them in anyway from doing so.

Moat's family are also suffering which some people fail to realise.

[Misawa]

Everyone joining the tribute being a complete idiot has nothing to do with the fact that it's their right to be a complete idiot, so the group should remain.

[AgnesIO]

Of course they should be removed.

If I made a group saying something like 'HAHAHA I AM GLAD MADELINE MCCANN IS DEAD. I RESPECT WHOEVER KILLED HER' I would probably have the police on my door tomorrow :l

Freedom of Speech is fine, but sometimes it goes to far.

[Judas]

it shouldnt be removed cos freedom of speech and all that

but whoever made it and joined it are idiots. how this man can be called a legend or anything is beyond me, hes a murderer. sure his family are suffering as well but he has ended human life which there is no excuse for

[Tintinnabulate]

Of course they should be removed.

If I made a group saying something like 'HAHAHA I AM GLAD MADELINE MCCANN IS DEAD. I RESPECT WHOEVER KILLED HER' I would probably have the police on my door tomorrow :l

Freedom of Speech is fine, but sometimes it goes to far.

There are groups taking the piss out of her, maybe you haven't noticed ...

[AgnesIO]

There are groups taking the piss out of her, maybe you haven't noticed ...

Of course there are jokes. But making whoever (if somebody did take her) a hero is damn right sick,

Whoever made the group about Raoul Moat is a sick ...

I would like to see their reaction if someone hot somebody so very close to them.

[alexxxxx]

i dont mind the ones saying RIP, its the ones saying he's a legend they should remove because actually it is promoting a killer.

[culturist]

Of course it should be removed. There's no doubt about it.

People are joining it for the wrong reasons and people (such as the police) are being targeted and disrespected on the group page. It's an utter disgrace. Why should someone who took others lives for no good reason be paid tribute to? Have a bit of common sense.

[alexxxxx]

i keep changing my opinion on this. i think even an RIP is a bit too much. hmmmm. split. there's speculation that he was tazed just before shooting himself (which would likely be an involuntary action). ermm. yeah remove them, we don't need to idolise killers.

[-:Undertaker:-]

They should allow any groups, most of these groups are a joke anyway. None of Dave's business and none of my business or your business either.


i keep changing my opinion on this. i think even an RIP is a bit too much. hmmmm. split. there's speculation that he was tazed just before shooting himself (which would likely be an involuntary action). ermm. yeah remove them, we don't need to idolise killers.

I thought you were one of the ones arguing with Hitman about banning muslim extremists? (if not, forgive me)

[Tintinnabulate]

RIP should not be removed.

[Hitman]

No, the government should not be making such requests either. If people want to leave comments for him, then let them. They should not stop them in anyway from doing so.

Moat's family are also suffering which some people fail to realise.
If people are so thick that they believe he's a legend then let them be... however he was nothing but a spineless coward & a killer.

Yes, they must be upset, but who pulled the trigger? Who caused all the trouble? Moat did.

[Tintinnabulate]

If people are so thick that they believe he's a legend then let them be... however he was nothing but a spineless coward & a killer.

Yes, they must be upset, but who pulled the trigger? Who caused all the trouble? Moat did.

I can understand peoples anger at the pages calling him a legend, but RIP should be allowed.

[Hitman]

I can understand peoples anger at the pages calling him a legend, but RIP should be allowed.
I personally agree that it should be allowed - this doesn't mean I agree with it though. This sick man has left one person dead, another injured and another blind and injured (the policeman) - he is anything but a legend.

Although these pages are nesting grounds of the stupid chavs that hate the police. Who do they call when they're in trouble... oh yeah, the police. :rolleyes:

[alexxxxx]

They should allow any groups, most of these groups are a joke anyway. None of Dave's business and none of my business or your business either.



I thought you were one of the ones arguing with Hitman about banning muslim extremists? (if not, forgive me)

i think as long as they are not inciting violence or actively promoting a killer i guess that's ok. but looking through some of these groups they are in terribly bad taste.

[BeanEgg]

It shouldn't be removed.
If people support him, let it be. - It's not right for a PM to make a decision based on his personal opinion. It's okay for him to make decisions if it effects us as the public, but this doesn't.

[-:Undertaker:-]

i think as long as they are not inciting violence or actively promoting a killer i guess that's ok. but looking through some of these groups they are in terribly bad taste.

Well it may not be to your taste but its freedom of choice and expression. If you dont like the group then you dont join, simple as that. The comments from David Cameron this evening seem to me to be another case of 'PM gets low down wif da kids and celebs' much like Brown and Blair did with their celebrity parties and comments on celebrity issues.

Extremism on the other hand does incite the overthrow of the western system (democracy) and promotes the likes of Osama Bin Laden and so on. The line cannot be drawn at 'its offensive' because thats freedom of speech. Aslong as it does not incite violence I would say anything goes even if I may disagree with it. A lot of people promote Karl Marx for, whose idealogy killed more people than anything else in the history of humanity yet we dont call for socialist/communist groups to be banned.

[Hitman]

i think as long as they are not inciting violence or actively promoting a killer i guess that's ok. but looking through some of these groups they are in terribly bad taste.
... but the Islamic extremists are inciting violence and promoting death and killing, yet you say they should be allowed to voice their, ahem, "opinion"

[alexxxxx]

... but the Islamic extremists are inciting violence and promoting death and killing, yet you say they should be allowed to voice their, ahem, "opinion"
i've said that as long as they don't do that i don't care. read what i've written.

[-:Undertaker:-]

i've said that as long as they don't do that i don't care. read what i've written.

Somebody calling Raoul Moat a legend does not promote violence either, you cannot have it both ways.

[Hitman]

i've said that as long as they don't do that i don't care. read what i've written.
I have read it. You say that the Islamic extremists (who are violent and incite hatred and violence) are entitled to their opinions as it's freedom of speech, however you're now saying if they are not doing this you don't care. But they are doing it, so you should care.

They incite violence, hatred, death, racism and many other things - we should not tolerate this. Just like we wouldn't if the KKK turned up.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I have read it. You say that the Islamic extremists (who are violent and incite hatred and violence) are entitled to their opinions as it's freedom of speech, however you're now saying if they are not doing this you don't care. But they are doing it, so you should care.

They incite violence, hatred, death, racism and many other things - we should not tolerate this. Just like we wouldn't if the KKK turned up.

I differ from you in the sense that I agree they should be allowed to air their views, but I agree with the line your taking and that was my point - it cannot be both ways for differing groups. As usual its the mindset creeping in which is to pander to the minority and restrict the majority.

The total opposite of democracy.

[alexxxxx]

I have read it. You say that the Islamic extremists (who are violent and incite hatred and violence) are entitled to their opinions as it's freedom of speech, however you're now saying if they are not doing this you don't care. But they are doing it, so you should care.

They incite violence, hatred, death, racism and many other things - we should not tolerate this. Just like we wouldn't if the KKK turned up.



as long as they don't call for violence or be violent i don't care about their view


they aren't ALL the same are they. i only care about taking action against those who DO call for violence or actively make people who are killers martyrs towards their causes. people saying 'Islam will take over europe' or 'sharia law for the uk' or even 'soldiers are not heroes' - that's OK. there's no issue there. i don't care about those views. however a preacher saying 'rise up and kill the queen,' 'we shall rip the heads of those who do not convert' and 'if british blood is spilt in our cause, so be it,' - that's something completely different, it's calling for violence and it is a direct threat.

[-:Undertaker:-]

they aren't ALL the same are they. i only care about taking action against those who DO call for violence or actively make people who are killers martyrs towards their causes. people saying 'Islam will take over europe' or 'sharia law for the uk' or even 'soldiers are not heroes' - that's OK. there's no issue there. i don't care about those views. however a preacher saying 'rise up and kill the queen,' 'we shall rip the heads of those who do not convert' and 'if british blood is spilt in our cause, so be it,' - that's something completely different, it's calling for violence and it is a direct threat.

So what is wrong with calling a killer a legend?

[alexxxxx]

So what is wrong with calling a killer a legend?
making a martyr out of a murderer. it's not acceptable (in my view) that we allow murderers to get a positive status. mentally unstable people may feel that they will gain some sort of everlasting status in people's minds after their personal suicidal mission against a group or some people. i guess an RIP group could be alright as long as it isn't promoting his cause and satirical groups are fine. it's the same in my opinion as groups which make a martyr out of suicide bombers.

[kk.]

no. the guy who got shot showed sympathy for him, and not only that, its freedom of speech. its not as extreme as a hate group, and so shouldnt be deleted

[-:Undertaker:-]

making a martyr out of a murderer. it's not acceptable (in my view) that we allow murderers to get a positive status. mentally unstable people may feel that they will gain some sort of everlasting status in people's minds after their personal suicidal mission against a group or some people. i guess an RIP group could be alright as long as it isn't promoting his cause and satirical groups are fine. it's the same in my opinion as groups which make a martyr out of suicide bombers.

Paying tribute to somebody or making a good point of somebody bad is not giving them martyr status. A lot of people would argue that the actions of Tony Blair consitute murder and that he himself led to the deaths of many innocent Iraqis. The same goes for Karl Marx whose idealogy has killed and spawned more nutcases than the world has ever seen before (Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Josef Stalin, Vladimir Lenin and so on). Where and how do you draw the line?

The answer is, you cannot.

In your world and along your lines, an extremist here can call for the end of the western world and stir up racial and religious hatred whilst calling for free speech to be banned, yet people cannot join a Facebook group calling Raoul Mote a legend.

How does that work out?

[alexxxxx]

Paying tribute to somebody or making a good point of somebody bad is not giving them martyr status. A lot of people would argue that the actions of Tony Blair consitute murder and that he himself led to the deaths of many innocent Iraqis. The same goes for Karl Marx whose idealogy has killed and spawned more nutcases than the world has ever seen before (Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Josef Stalin, Vladimir Lenin and so on). Where and how do you draw the line?

The answer is, you cannot.

In your world and along your lines, an extremist here can call for the end of the western world and stir up racial and religious hatred whilst calling for free speech to be banned, yet people cannot join a Facebook group calling Raoul Mote a legend.

How does that work out?
i dunno. im mixed up this evening with my views on this tbh as ive shown earlier.

i think there should be care in making sure that making martyrs of assured killed is at least discouraged.

[Hitman]

they aren't ALL the same are they. i only care about taking action against those who DO call for violence or actively make people who are killers martyrs towards their causes. people saying 'Islam will take over europe' or 'sharia law for the uk' or even 'soldiers are not heroes' - that's OK. there's no issue there. i don't care about those views. however a preacher saying 'rise up and kill the queen,' 'we shall rip the heads of those who do not convert' and 'if british blood is spilt in our cause, so be it,' - that's something completely different, it's calling for violence and it is a direct threat.

Haha OK, whatever. If you believe that the extremists are peaceful then you believe that, good luck to you. It just makes me laugh... well, feel sad actually. You think it's alright to have extremists all over the place, but it's not ok for a facebook page to brand a killer a legend... bah. I give up with you.

[alexxxxx]

Haha OK, whatever. If you believe that the extremists are peaceful then you believe that, good luck to you. It just makes me laugh... well, feel sad actually. You think it's alright to have extremists all over the place, but it's not ok for a facebook page to brand a killer a legend... bah. I give up with you.
well yeah that's why im cut up. i feel that you should be able to say whatever you want as long as it isnt directly threatening or making someone a martyr. but it's hard to come up with a definition for who is a murderer and what is threatening. so really it's very hard to do anything about either.

[Camy]

they aren't ALL the same are they. i only care about taking action against those who DO call for violence or actively make people who are killers martyrs towards their causes. people saying 'Islam will take over europe' or 'sharia law for the uk' or even 'soldiers are not heroes' - that's OK. there's no issue there. i don't care about those views. however a preacher saying 'rise up and kill the queen,' 'we shall rip the heads of those who do not convert' and 'if british blood is spilt in our cause, so be it,' - that's something completely different, it's calling for violence and it is a direct threat.
the term 'Muslim extremists' is referring to the individuals who are trying to cause violence and incite hatred, so they are all the same. they wouldn't be classed as 'extremists' if they didn't have extreme views, and were willing to go to extreme measures to get them across.

OT: I really don't get why you want to join that facebook group. I've seen it on my news feed, only idiots on my friends list have joined it, so yeah..

[alexxxxx]

the term 'Muslim extremists' is referring to the individuals who are trying to cause violence and incite hatred, so they are all the same. they wouldn't be classed as 'extremists' if they didn't have extreme views, and were willing to go to extreme measures to get them across.

OT: I really don't get why you want to join that facebook group. I've seen it on my news feed, only idiots on my friends list have joined it, so yeah..
what counts as an extreme view? having an extreme political view does not mean that you are even violent or even want violence.

[j0rd]

I think its sick people can think hes a 'legend'
The group should defenetly be taken down.

[GommeInc]

Pfft, worse things on Facebook :/ Not like it's doing any major damage. Just some strange people "tributing" a deranged man.

Tributing being marked like that as some are obviously doing it for jokes, like the dead baby jokes etc etc.

[Tintinnabulate]

You also have to remember, Facebook isn't UK based.

[Eckuii]

Hiding in other people's s**t for 5 days isn't legendary to me tbh. Neither is saying your going to target the police, then when you have about 20 surrounding you and the perfect opportunity to do what he said he always would, he didn't but decided to shoot himself instead. What a hero that guy is lol.

MOST of the people on that facebook group are probably on benefits and have something against the police. Everybody is against the police until they become a victim of crime, and then they can't like them enough. I think we should remember that he shot an unarmed policeman in the face, blinding him so that he can never see his own kids ever again. What kind of person actually does that? That is no legend to me. To brutally abuse his past girlfriends as so many have come out to say, as well as embarassing children in the way he did, what kind of legend is that? Anybody that thinks Moat is a legend, totally agrees with these points in my opinion.

Lets face it, if there is a heavan and whatever, this guy isn't resting in peace. I hope hes shining the shoes of every copper that has ever died. Peice of scum.

[Hitman]

Hiding in other people's s**t for 5 days isn't legendary to me tbh. Neither is saying your going to target the police, then when you have about 20 surrounding you and the perfect opportunity to do what he said he always would, he didn't but decided to shoot himself instead. What a hero that guy is lol.

MOST of the people on that facebook group are probably on benefits and have something against the police. Everybody is against the police until they become a victim of crime, and then they can't like them enough. I think we should remember that he shot an unarmed policeman in the face, blinding him so that he can never see his own kids ever again. What kind of person actually does that? That is no legend to me. To brutally abuse his past girlfriends as so many have come out to say, as well as embarassing children in the way he did, what kind of legend is that? Anybody that thinks Moat is a legend, totally agrees with these points in my opinion.

Lets face it, if there is a heavan and whatever, this guy isn't resting in peace. I hope hes shining the shoes of every copper that has ever died. Peice of scum.
... wow, another person who I thought I'd never agree with, proved me wrong. Totally agree. The people that hate the police run to them as soon as there's trouble... it pisses me off when they're like "*** tha p0lice" - only Tupac can say that. ;)

[ifuseekamy]

No people should be allowed to indulge themselves in their own stupidity. They're the same as taliban apologists who see the suicide bombers of 9/11 and 7/7 as matyrs and heroes.

[Misawa]

It's been deleted.

[Caution]

Deleted by the guy that made it. Must have been getting to him.

[Hitman]

Deleted by the guy that made it. Must have been getting to him.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-10653075

Indeed, she did.

[AlexOC]

These groups should be removed, they are not even raoul moatly funny.

[AgnesIO]

These groups should be removed, they are not even raoul moatly funny.

Sorry - I didn't laugh :(