Immigration Minister rules out British ban on burka

[Hitman]

Banning the wearing of burkas in public would be 'rather un-British', the Immigration Minister said today as he attacked efforts to make it illegal in this country.
Damian Green said it would be 'undesirable' for Parliament to try to pass such a law, which would be at odds with the UK's 'tolerant and mutually respectful society'.

Fellow Tory MP Philip Hollobone introduced a private members' bill which would make it illegal for people to cover their faces in public.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1295665/Banning-burkas-UK-British-says-Green.html#ixzz0u2E2LyKy


It's 'un-British' to walk around with your face concealed too. :rolleyes: I think this is pretty crap, because I am sure there were some opinion polls done, and the majority voted for them to be banned... if the people want it then they should do it.

[GommeInc]

To be fair, it would be un-British as it's British to be open-minded, but at the same time it is over stepping the mark having the burkha where it's not needed here :P

[Catzsy]

Well interestling even the moderate muslim leaders support a ban believing that it is used mainly just to oppress women.


One of those who thinks the burka should be outlawed is the chairman of the Muslim Educational Centre in Oxford.

"We're not telling these women what they can wear. We're telling them the only thing they should do is uncover their faces," said imam Dr Taj Hargey.

"I think this notion that somehow this is a religious symbol, a Koranic requirement, is nonsense."

This is quite a conundrum when people say that we shouldn't have a ban because we are a tolerant country which then
actually is contradicted by the 'oppression' of women argument.

In this survey 2/3 of british people would like a ban on it.

Link:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Burka-Ban-Two-Thirds-Believe-Islamic-Garment-Should-Be-Outlawed-Five-News-And-YouGov-Survey-Says/Article/201007315666275?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15666275_Burka_Ban%3A_Two-Thirds_Believe_Islamic_G

[GommeInc]

This is quite a conundrum when people say that we shouldn't have a ban because we are a tolerant country which then
actually is contradicted by the 'oppression' of women argument.

In this survey 2/3 of british people would like a ban on it.
Indeed, it's an attack on human rights and beliefs - women now have rights and the burkha is considered to make women objects, yet they have the right to wear them, and suggesting they shouldn't brings back the idea they're objects. It's messy :P

[cocaine]

quote in thread title should be extended to ".. because we're too scared to ban it"

[Catzsy]

quote in thread title should be extended to ".. because we're too scared to ban it"

You could be right there. The PC brigade has lost any common sense it ever had.

[Hitman]

Good points. At the end of the day Britain is relaxed/open minded - you can wear what you want, but when security comes into it there must be priorities, just like with the bike helmets and balaclavas. I'm glad that some Muslim leaders oppose it too, maybe that will help.

But yes, the PC brigade is most likely too scared... sigh.

[PaulMacC]

To be frank I've never seen anything more unBritish than someone walking around in a burka.

[Moh]

I bet hes only saying that because if it does get banned, he'll get a fair few complaints from immigrants.

In Europe, we have the largest defence systems. So being "British" is about secure and safety - so it's not exactly unBritish is it?

[alexxxxx]

emotionally, i feel like they should ban it (especially inside) as it seems oppressive. but in my head i feel like they shouldn't because the government has no right to tell me or anyone else what i can or cannot wear.

In this case i feel that private businesses and public offices should be able to ask people to not conceal their face whilst in the building (security risk) or when to prove their ID - just like you would with someone wearing a motorbike helmet, but banning on the street? in people's houses? no.

it's a cultural thing and i think that it is a barrier to people integrating into mainstream british society and it is beyond me why anyone would want to wear it - even for being modest. you can be modest without having to put yourself away like that.

i don't find it offensive, why should i care what someone else is wearing, nor threatening, it's just weird.

[Catzsy]

emotionally, i feel like they should ban it (especially inside) as it seems oppressive. but in my head i feel like they shouldn't because the government has no right to tell me or anyone else what i can or cannot wear.

In this case i feel that private businesses and public offices should be able to ask people to not conceal their face whilst in the building (security risk) or when to prove their ID - just like you would with someone wearing a motorbike helmet, but banning on the street? in people's houses? no.



it's a cultural thing and i think that it is a barrier to people integrating into mainstream british society and it is beyond me why anyone would want to wear it - even for being modest. you can be modest without having to put yourself away like that.

i don't find it offensive, why should i care what someone else is wearing, nor threatening, it's just weird.

I agree faces should not be covered in public offices but I understand what you mean except it is more of a case of giving them the right not to wear it. As it has been pointed out by a leading muslim there is nothing in the koran about it so it is not a religious thing but a tool used by some men to oppress their female relatives. I am not saying some do not want their faces covered but even they should see that it is commonsense given the world we live in. The same could be said about forced marriages but the government has intervened on that.

[MrPinkPanther]

If the Burka is forced upon a woman then it is oppressive, no doubt about that. But we cannot assume this to be the case because realistically it probably isn't and in my opinion it would be equally as oppressive to ban a woman from wearing a certain set of clothes. Equally lets look at the husbands of the women who are forced to wear it, they force it upon their wives because they believe it is wrong for religious reasons for women to be seen dressed openly in public. So what happens if a ban is put in place? The women aren't allowed out, simple as that.

From a human rights perspective, which is the main argument for banning the Burka, nothing good can come from it.

[Eckuii]

And there was me thinking that MP's were put in place to represent the majority of their constituents and that is what they voted on in the House of Commons. Shameful really that they can't even get that right.

[-:Undertaker:-]

And there was me thinking that MP's were put in place to represent the majority of their constituents and that is what they voted on in the House of Commons. Shameful really that they can't even get that right.

That concept ended long ago, now it is what party HQ and what the whips desire. This is just more evidence if needed that we need a system based on the swiss system of direct democracy, where referendums are legally binding for parliament. To start a referendum in motion, 2.5% of the population would need to sign a petition asking so - the referendum then would be granted, most likely to coincidence with local elections/general elections and European elections.

Of course we know why that will not occur anytime soon in this country, we would end up doing the exact opposite of what the three main parties [Labour, Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats] want;


We would be gone from the European Union.
The burqa would be banned in this country.
The death penalty would (possibly) be re-introduced.

+ along with many many other issues.

[GommeInc]

That concept ended long ago, now it is what party HQ and what the whips desire. This is just more evidence if needed that we need a system based on the swiss system of direct democracy, where referendums are legally binding for parliament. To start a referendum in motion, 2.5% of the population would need to sign a petition asking so - the referendum then would be granted, most likely to coincidence with local elections/general elections and European elections.

Of course we know why that will not occur anytime soon in this country, we would end up doing the exact opposite of what the three main parties [Labour, Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats] want;


We would be gone from the European Union.
The burqa would be banned in this country.
The death penalty would (possibly) be re-introduced.

+ along with many many other issues.
The referendum idea is only good if it's temporary. Once they learn to represent their areas then it should be stopped. It would be annoying to have to do them all the time when they should hopefully learn that we elected them to reflect the majority in the areas they're elected or the bigger majority against the party in power and the man at the top.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The referendum idea is only good if it's temporary. Once they learn to represent their areas then it should be stopped. It would be annoying to have to do them all the time when they should hopefully learn that we elected them to reflect the majority in the areas they're elected or the bigger majority against the party in power and the man at the top.

Switzerland have the referendum lock as a permanent feature of their democracy and they are perhaps one of the best countries in Europe (in terms of wealth, sovereignty and so forth). It is a problem getting people to vote I agree which is why you coincide them with elections every year - it is much better than the present system where we have something like a 60% (and falling) turnout for elections. The reason why many do not bother to vote is because the politicians simply do not listen and if they do, often they just drop it as soon as they are near the levers of power.



Introduce referendum system based on the Swiss model.
Abolish party whips in parliament.
Move to the proportional representation system.
Cut each chamber of parliament down to size to 400 per chamber or below.
Remove executive powers from office of Prime Minister and hand them to parliament.

It hands the power back to the majority which afterall is what democracy is. It also gives people the motiviation to make a change - because they can with the systems above (and combined). Finally it would break down the ridiculous Lib-Lab-Con system we have running now where they are basically locked in their first, second and third positions no matter what.

[Wig44.]

emotionally, i feel like they should ban it (especially inside) as it seems oppressive. but in my head i feel like they shouldn't because the government has no right to tell me or anyone else what i can or cannot wear.

In this case i feel that private businesses and public offices should be able to ask people to not conceal their face whilst in the building (security risk) or when to prove their ID - just like you would with someone wearing a motorbike helmet, but banning on the street? in people's houses? no.

it's a cultural thing and i think that it is a barrier to people integrating into mainstream british society and it is beyond me why anyone would want to wear it - even for being modest. you can be modest without having to put yourself away like that.

i don't find it offensive, why should i care what someone else is wearing, nor threatening, it's just weird.

Bike helmets and balaclavas are banned for one of the reasons the burkha should be banned - security. Then there is the whole 'the burkha was made by men who are scared of women and oppress them' which I believe is true. Furthermore, banning it would improve integration - not hinder it. The burkha prevents social cohesion and a lot of women wear it/are forced to wear it just to show they are different. It is a disgrace and I hate our government.