Turkey must join EU, says Cameron

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1297906/Turkey-join-EU-says-Cameron-Those-playing-fears-Islam.html


David Cameron today accused critics of Turkey’s membership of the EU of playing on fears of Islam - as he pledged to ‘pave the road from Ankara to Brussels’. In a speech in the Turkish capital the Prime Minister promised to ‘fight’ to help the Islamic state achieve its 50-year goal of EU membership. He said that, by embracing the moderate Muslim nation, the EU can improve relations with the rest of the Islamic world. And he hit out at those who ‘wilfully misunderstand Islam’ in order to oppose Turkey’s membership.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/07/27/article-1297906-0A95DD69000005DC-760_468x331.jpg



He said: ‘They see no difference between real Islam and the distorted version of the extremists. ‘They think the values of Islam can never be compatible with the values of other religions, societies or cultures. ‘All these arguments are just plain wrong. I want us to be at the forefront of an international effort to defeat them.’ Mr Cameron’s words put him at odds with France, Germany and Tory Right-wingers who believe Turkey may be incompatible with the EU. EU countries are in a position to use their veto to block a move for Turkish accession. But they are now coming under pressure from the U.S. as well as Britain. The Prime Minister hit out at ‘protectionists’ who see Turkey as an ‘economic threat’. And he criticised those who see the world as a ‘clash of civilisations’ in which Turkey must choose sides.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/07/27/article-1297906-0A9580D2000005DC-176_468x286.jpg


http://www.ukip.org/content/latest-news/1798-cameron-insincere-over-turkey


UKIP's chief spokesman, Nigel Farage MEP, has slammed David Cameron's demands that Turkey get let into the EU as "irresponsible and illegitimate". "He states that those who wish to preserve our culture make him angry. Well, Prime Minister, your cavalier approach to the traditions and history of this country make us all very angry, but your anger can lead to disastrous and irreversible changes to our nation," Mr Farage said. Under EU laws of free movement the people of Turkey would be granted the right to move to Britain, nobody in Britain has ever been asked if they are happy with that. Turkey is a nation whose population is projected to grow to 100million by 2020 by the Council of Europe.

Mr Farage continued: "Worse still, as he knows that Turkish accession will be rejected by France, Germany, Austria and others he is guilty of building up hopes where there are none. "Of course we should be building up trade links, of course we should encourage free movement of capital and goods. Of course we should be politically supportive of a friend and ally, but to do so requires honesty. Not snake oil and insincerity. "Mr Cameron knows that he is flying in the face of the people of Britain by making this grandiose gesture to the Turkey. He knows that his point of view is shared only by a small number of people in the UK, and he knows that he cannot deliver on his demand. "What is more he knows that Turkish membership would change the EU constitutionally so much that it would require a new Treaty and ratification in the UK by referendum under his own 'referendum lock'.. A referendum he knows he would lose."
As usual it is turned on its head by the likes of Cameron as though we are all xenophobes who cannot stand other cultures - wrong Mr Cameron. What people are afraid of is a flood of immigration to the United Kingdom by poor Turks (80 million of them) just as what happened when the Eastern European states joined the European Union. We all know why Turkey wishes to join the EU anyway; money.

To bare in mind that Turkey shares its long border with Iran, Iraq, Syria, Georgia and has a long coastline along the top of Africa - think of the security threat this poses to Europe and our country. The Turkish border is truly massive and I very much doubt they have much control over it.

Thoughts, should Cameron support Turkey in joining the EU?

[Frodo13.]

The fact that the UK has supported Turkish membership into the EU is not exactly breaking news, we've supported them for years. And I actually think that most British people wouldn't actually mind if Turkey joined; we have a lot of British people traveling to Turkey and it's in that sort of way that we don't see the Turkish in that much of a negative light (do you really hear of people going on a summer holiday to Poland). It appeared to me at least, when Cameron is accusing EU members of playing on fears of Islam that he's referring to other countries, not the UK, like Undertaker seemed to be hinting at in his post.

Also, a mass of Turkish immigrants to the UK is unlikely, the Turkish economy is fairly strong and I personally, couldn't see yours and Mr. Farage's predictions actually happening; they are just the usual scare tactics from UKIP.

Saying all this however, Turkey's human rights record, in my opinion, is not up to scratch. The 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus is for many of Cyprus inhabitants not so distant memory yet, and Turkey's induction in the EU, for all those who were evacuated from the North of Cyprus because of the invasion would be an insult.

[Technologic]

It would make going on holiday easier and you're forgetting that turkey is above Egypt....What about Spain, Greece, Italy and France? They stretch over a far greater part of Africa than Turkey

[-:Undertaker:-]

The fact that the UK has supported Turkish membership into the EU is not exactly breaking news, we've supported them for years. And I actually think that most British people wouldn't actually mind if Turkey joined; we have a lot of British people traveling to Turkey and it's in that sort of way that we don't see the Turkish in that much of a negative light (do you really hear of people going on a summer holiday to Poland). It appeared to me at least, when Cameron is accusing EU members of playing on fears of Islam that he's referring to other countries, not the UK, like Undertaker seemed to be hinting at in his post.

That is rather strange, because most British people would rather we not be in the EU in the first place. Whether or not you have noticed (well no you most likely have not) but most British people are fed up with mass immigration - and judging by the fact the Eastern European accession was handled so badly I have litle faith in the idea that the British people support Turkey joining the European Union.


Also, a mass of Turkish immigrants to the UK is unlikely, the Turkish economy is fairly strong and I personally, couldn't see yours and Mr. Farage's predictions actually happening; they are just the usual scare tactics from UKIP.

Saying all this however, Turkey's human rights record, in my opinion, is not up to scratch. The 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus is for many of Cyprus inhabitants not so distant memory yet, and Turkey's induction in the EU, for all those who were evacuated from the North of Cyprus because of the invasion would be an insult.

Turkey is a poor nation. I have been to Turkey on holiday (in one of the richer areas) and we saw numerous beggers walking around, the Turkish houses were delapidated and the waiters themselves told us of the poverty in that country. Eastern Europe is considered to be vastly more developed than Turkey yet that did not prevent hundreds of thousands of them coming over to the United Kingdom did it?

If Eastern Europe had hundreds of thousands coming to here and western Europe, are you really willing to take the risk with Turkey?


It would make going on holiday easier and you're forgetting that turkey is above Egypt....What about Spain, Greece, Italy and France? They stretch over a far greater part of Africa than Turkey

Err you'd still have to board a plane, show your passport - what exactly becomes easier? anyone seriously debating this issue would be speaking about immigration anyway, not about holidays. They [those countries you listed] are closer to Africa yes, but their borders are more patrollable as they are richer nations and are more developed than the likes of Turkey. Although as I outlined in my post, the real concern comes from the borders with Iran, Iraq and Syria.

[Technologic]

It's not that poor, infact Turkey is rather rich. Just because a waiter was trying to con you into a bigger tip doesn't mean they're all beggars in mud huts, they have one of the largest armed forces in NATO and are a strategic partner in the war on terrorism

[-:Undertaker:-]

It's not that poor, infact Turkey is rather rich. Just because a waiter was trying to con you into a bigger tip doesn't mean they're all beggars in mud huts, they have one of the largest armed forces in NATO and are a strategic partner in the war on terrorism

India, China and various other countries also have vast amounts of cash + vast and modern armed forces but their people are poor as is the case with Turkey. The waiter wasn't trying to con us into anything, he was just telling us about his life and about the country in general. He worked in the summer in the tourist industry to support his family and returned home in the winter to his village. Nobody has mentioned mud huts either, but the fact is that if life is better here in the UK and western Europe - they are going to come here.

[Technologic]

India, China and various other countries also have vast amounts of cash + vast and modern armed forces but their people are poor as is the case with Turkey. The waiter wasn't trying to con us into anything, he was just telling us about his life and about the country in general. He worked in the summer in the tourist industry to support his family and returned home in the winter to his village. Nobody has mentioned mud huts either, but the fact is that if life is better here in the UK and western Europe - they are going to come here.

Yes, of course they are, every single one of them. They can all live in Nigel Farage's gaping mouth

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yes, of course they are, every single one of them. They can all live in Nigel Farage's gaping mouth

No real reply then? I have to say, at least Farage does a good job representing the British people which is more than can be said for most other politicians. But hey it doesnt matter, you'll just be one of the many taxpayers taken for mugs who'll end up paying for it all.

[Technologic]

No real reply then?

But hey doesnt matter, you'll just be one of the many mugs who'll end up paying for it all.

No point giving a real reply to a statement that isn't real.

[Robbie]

Not in agreement with this at all. You probably all know that I agree with most of UKIP's policies, and this is just another example of the dangers of its expansion. In my eyes, Turkey is nowhere near developed enough to even think about joining the EU - and as other have said, the Human Rights record and neighbouring countries are quite a concern.

David Cameron is just showing himself to be more and more left-wing as he likes to let on. The ideals of the Conservative party have been shattered even more and I'd imagine a large tory vote will now be going to UKIP as Dave continues to alienate the traditional Conservative supporters. Using the race card is just laughable aswell.

[-:Undertaker:-]

No point giving a real reply to a statement that isn't real.

What you disagree that China, India and Turkeys people are poor but they have expensive and modern armed forces?

[Technologic]

What you disagree that China, India and Turkeys people are poor but they have expensive and modern armed forces?

More the general stereotypes you label to every other country that isn't the UK....

[-:Undertaker:-]

More the general stereotypes you label to every other country that isn't the UK....

Come out with some then, prove me wrong with proof for once.

Here is some of my proof using a past example;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/european_football/article1082030.ece


The British Government predicted only 5,000 to 13,000 Eastern Europeans would come, but 175,000 came in the first year alone.

[Technologic]

Come out with some then, prove me wrong with proof for once.

Here is some of my proof using a past example;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/european_football/article1082030.ece

Well i don't know about you but imo if the British didn't moan so much and laze about they wouldn't be replaced by immigrants who will work long hours, do their job well and appreciate their pay.....

[Frodo13.]

No real reply then? I have to say, at least Farage does a good job representing the British people which is more than can be said for most other politicians. But hey it doesnt matter, you'll just be one of the many taxpayers taken for mugs who'll end up paying for it all.

Your so right! He is representing Brits so well, and has so much in common with the majority of British people. Just look at how many votes they got in the General Election...oh wait :rolleyes:

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well i don't know about you but imo if the British didn't moan so much and laze about they wouldn't be replaced by immigrants who will work long hours, do their job well and appreciate their pay.....

I'm all for immigration, but not mass, uncontrolled immigration. If Turkey joins it means giving access to 80 million people to this country - and in the past the government has got it totally and utterly wrong as proven by the last example. The Eastern European question is also more apparent when you look at GDP (nominal) per capita; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita - Turkey is lower than the likes of the Czech Republic and other Eastern European states, meaning that the chances of higher immigration than the flood we had with Eastern Europe are very real.

In future do not try and make me out that I have sterotypes that somehow every other country than the UK is poor/its people live in mud huts - i'm simply stating the facts that many Turkish people are poor and that when you open the door to poorer people, they will come to better themselves.


Your so right! He is representing Brits so well, and has so much in common with the majority of British people. Just look at how many votes they got in the General Election...oh wait :rolleyes:

Most people want to leave the European Union - Farage represents this.
Most people want control over immigration - Farage represents this.

The same with many issues, you yourself are not stupid having no doubt studied the voting system and understand the voting lock that FPTP presents - but I am glad that in a fair and national PR election last year, UKIP beat the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats.

[Frodo13.]

Most people want to leave the European Union - Farage represents this.
Most people want control over immigration - Farage represents this.

The same with many issues, you yourself are not stupid having no doubt studied the voting system and understand the voting lock that FPTP presents - but I am glad that in a fair and free PR election last year, we beat the Labour Party.

Firstly, I'd love to see a piece of proof that points to most people wanted to leave the EU, provide this to me, and I will admit defeat on that.

Secondly, all the parties want to control immigration, and you suggesting that none of the major parties want to control it is a downright lie. I'll admit that pretty much all immigration control methods have failed and/or not had the desierd effect. If the immigration policies of UKIP or BNP were so amazing, then we would surely be voting these parties in, we all get their leaflets through our doors, and we all see them on TV. The truth is, the majority of people DON'T agree with UKIP or BNP. No denying it.

Also, of course I know the problems presented of FPTP and if there is a referendum on AV, I will be voting YES. The fact UKIP beat Labour in the 2009 European Elections was nothing more than a protest vote.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Firstly, I'd love to see a piece of proof that points to most people wanted to leave the EU, provide this to me, and I will admit defeat on that.

Well on this website; http://www.democracymovementsurrey.co.uk/dyk_pollwatch.html is a list of polls taken from a number of polling agencies, infact when i've even read the Guardian from time to time - even that paper is often critical of the European Union. To add more proof to this, do you not wonder why we are never given referendums/the truth on the European Union?

Blair and Brown both promised referendums, both went back on them time and time again. The simple reason why they went back on their promises is because they know what the outcome would be; no.


Secondly, all the parties want to control immigration, and you suggesting that none of the major parties want to control it is a downright lie. I'll admit that pretty much all immigration control methods have failed and/or not had the desierd effect. If the immigration policies of UKIP or BNP were so amazing, then we would surely be voting these parties in, we all get their leaflets through our doors, and we all see them on TV. The truth is, the majority of people DON'T agree with UKIP or BNP. No denying it.

Well yes I am saying that. Whilst members of the European Union we cannot control EU immigration, and the fact we have just under one million illegal immigration in this country (coupled with Labours 13,000 prediction) is living proof of what a complete show it all is - and people such as yourself swallow it time and time again. I mean just before the election we had your own leader Gordon Brown saying how we needed to get tough on immigration and now we have Ed Balls saying the same - despite the fact your party had 13 years to sort it out.

I know the system UKIP wants it popular, a system based on the Austrialian system. The BNP system is differing, from what I know they want a total lockdown of immigration - so again do not try and use the racist slur against UKIP. I mean the fact immigration was such an issue and remains one, does that not show you people want control as opposed to no control?

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1067


Also, of course I know the problems presented of FPTP and if there is a referendum on AV, I will be voting YES. The fact UKIP beat Labour in the 2009 European Elections was nothing more than a protest vote.

Really? how come every time UKIP do well it is a protest vote? In 2004 UKIP beat the Liberal Democrats and came only around one million votes off beating Labour. In 2009 UKIP beat both the Liberal Democrats for the second time and Labour. Why is it that every time UKIP beat Labour/the Liberal Democrats, its a fluke? fact is, its not.

[Caution]

People are still waiting on the referendum he promised.. :L

[alexxxxx]

turkey should join when it's ready. which it clearly isn't. poor GDP, poor human rights, corruption and poor public services. just like romania and bulgaria - they joined way too early and are a drain. The EU should help it out, encourage cross border co-ordination and trade, etc but should not be considered for a while yet.

[Pyroka]

Ive been to Turkey over 10 times at least, and i think if Turkey joined the EU, part of their economy would collapse. Alot of UK peeps go over to Turkey to get fake goods like Ed Hardy for a fiver and what not. If they joined, that would close up and tourism would slowly die out. The turks still occupy cyprus anyway, pretty sure thats why theyre not allowed to join the EU.

[GommeInc]

I wouldn't wish the EU on my worst enemies :P Turkey is a nice country and should be allowed to join, it's like you said immigration would be hell and it might not do the Euro any good neither :/

[alexxxxx]

I wouldn't wish the EU on my worst enemies :P Turkey is a nice country and should be allowed to join, it's like you said immigration would be hell and it might not do the Euro any good neither :/
i doubt theyd be let near the euro after greece's lies which got them in to the single currency to begin with.

but turkey should not join the EU. we should improve what we've got first before because the east of europe isn't prosperous enough meaning a flow of immigrants to the west which doesn't bode well for the east's future unless large capital projects are encouraged and supported - also making better export markets for us.