Say Whaa?

[Chippiewill]

Was it only a few days ago that I opened a thread pointing out that decisions were being rushed, and that threads were being closed when staff and decisions are put under question. I was very quickly told this was not true by several members of staff, so why is it that THIS (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=669775) thread has been closed? Regardless of whether the choice would have been changed there was no real basis to close that thread and is essential to prevent similar situations occurring again.


b) Management is not allowed to be criticized by users because "it's Jin's job", forum management specifically will close any thread putting members of their department under review.
The only times I can remember closing threads were when public feedback threads turned personal against a new trialist, which wasn't fair on him. Theres a complaints for for that sort of issue or PMing members of gen / forum management too.


d) Hiring of staff is being rushed, checks are not being made to ensure that the moderator applying is knowledgeable / fits all criterion.
I wouldn't say rushed either. Admittedly mistakes were made but I trusted gut instinct on that one and I stand by it, next time around I will be making sure it is fairer though. Again I apologise for this.

Admittedly it was not Jamesy's decision but THIS is a massive piss-take and I'm sure at some point he would have known the decision before it was announced and raised concerns. In fact EVERY member of Habbox Staff should have been alert not to make stupid decisions.

And despite the prior statement, he surely could have made some kind of argument against this:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=669839

Care to explain?

NB - I would like to point out that I am not (Nor is this thread) targeting the new Asst. Manager, but merely the decision to close the thread and the rushed, unfair decision. Therefore this thread is not against any rules that can be interpreted in any reasonable or fair way and cannot therefore be closed.

[xxMATTGxx]

The thread already had enough comments on who disagreed and agreed that Jordesh should of become Manager. If you didn't know already then there was another thread previous to this one in regards of Shar returning back as a Manager. Due to that thread she resigned due to pressure from the comments that were made in regards of her, I don't want that happening again to Jordesh because people thought it was the wrong decision or people believe other people should of got it. Yes you are all allowed an opinion and most people already stated them, it's now just time to give him a chance.

[Chippiewill]

The thread already had enough comments on who disagreed and agreed that Jordesh should of become Manager. If you didn't know already then there was another thread previous to this one in regards of Shar returning back as a Manager. Due to that thread she resigned due to pressure from the comments that were made in regards of her, I don't want that happening again to Jordesh because people thought it was the wrong decision or people believe other people should of got it. Yes you are all allowed an opinion and most people already stated them, it's now just time to give him a chance.

I didn't see that thread, did I get my chance? NO! Besides this thread does not simply address that, please address my other points rather than just those you have an excuse for.

[Jamesy]

And despite the prior statement, he surely could have made some kind of argument against this:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=669839

Care to explain?


I put in place 2 Smods who were, and I'm sure they don't mind me saying, brand new! In the past I don't imagine they would have risen so fast so to call it unfair is simply not true. Martin wanted to come back, and my first interest is in how well moderation is performed so to have an Smod with experience who can get the other two up to speed along with Sarah and I is the best possible result.

[Chippiewill]

I put in place 2 Smods who were, and I'm sure they don't mind me saying, brand new! In the past I don't imagine they would have risen so fast so to call it unfair is simply not true. Martin wanted to come back, and my first interest is in how well moderation is performed so to have an Smod with experience who can get the other two up to speed along with Sarah and I is the best possible result.

So what you're saying is that when it comes down to it you'll say anything to get me to shut up?

[Jamesy]

So what you're saying is that when it comes down to it you'll say anything to get me to shut up?

You commented on the fairness. I told you it was fair and gave reasons for so.

[Chippiewill]

and my first interest is in how well moderation is performed so to have an Smod with experience who can get the other two up to speed along with Sarah and I is the best possible result.

next time around I will be making sure it is fairer though

I will not commend you for 2/3

[Jamesy]

I will not commend you for 2/3

I'd also point out that question referred to Moderator Applications. Super Moderators are an entirely different situation due to the nature of the job. I think I took far more risks than many of my predecessors with such a role so to call it unfair is simply a load of tosh. If you aren't happy on your own head be it, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.

[Chippiewill]

I'd also point out that question referred to Moderator Applications. Super Moderators are an entirely different situation due to the nature of the job. I think I took far more risks than many of my predecessors with such a role so to call it unfair is simply a load of tosh. If you aren't happy on your own head be it, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.

It's still the same problem?

[xxMATTGxx]

d) Hiring of staff is being rushed, checks are not being made to ensure that the moderator applying is knowledgeable / fits all criterion.

I'm going to guess you have also aimed this part for both Martin and Jordesh, yes? Well ok.

In regards of Jordesh the decision was not rushed. It has been in the General Management & HxHD Management minds for a new Assistant when Shar decided to resign, once we looked at all of the possible candidates we came to a decision on who should get the role. The final decision was that Jordesh should get the shot of being part of the management team and with his good work and dedication in his previous roles we believe it was the correct decision to do and he should do a very good job of it. I have already started other people in that department are also dedicated and do a fantastic job but you cannot give the job to everyone, if they stay and decide to show that dedication even more then they will have a shot at management or even any other role that may be suitable for them.

Now onto Martin,

Yes Martin resigned as Forum Management and today decided he wanted to stay with the department and be a Super Moderator again. I know it might not look ideal in terms of the members eyes but Martin is a very dedicated staff member at Habbox and is a true credit for what he does in the News Department as a News Manager and also is time within the Forum Department. The Super Moderator role is not done by applications and is normally done within the department from Forum Moderator > Super Moderator, if a previous member of the team such as Martin decided he would like to come back and at times we do allow them to return to their previous role. Although, that does depend how the department is managing at the moment and if we are able to fit them in. Martin does a good job at what he does and will continue to be a very good Super Moderator.

[Martin]

It's still the same problem?


You can't just pick people off the street to be Super Moderators, I guess it's a job that requires experience and most importantly trust due to the nature of the job.

Both the recent promotions of Super Moderators were very recent, and due to the nature of the job and the importance of having active super moderators on the forum I guess James made the decision based on that.

It may seem the same problem, but things like this are never easy, and when there's simply nobody left to promote, and you're short on super moderators then I guess that's when others are allowed back.

It has been the case for a long time where people return to positions, and sometimes return into promotions, but this is sometimes something which can't be avoided and so long as it's for the good of the department I don't personally see a problem with it.

[Inseriousity.]

Was it only a few days ago that I opened a thread pointing out that decisions were being rushed, and that threads were being closed when staff and decisions are put under question. I was very quickly told this was not true by several members of staff, so why is it that THIS (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=669775) thread has been closed? Regardless of whether the choice would have been changed there was no real basis to close that thread and is essential to prevent similar situations occurring again.

Admittedly it was not Jamesy's decision but THIS is a massive piss-take and I'm sure at some point he would have known the decision before it was announced and raised concerns. In fact EVERY member of Habbox Staff should have been alert not to make stupid decisions.

And despite the prior statement, he surely could have made some kind of argument against this:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=669839

Care to explain?


I'm not sure if you're referencing Jamesy or the person you're quoting (Nixt?) when you say 'he... would have known'. If Jamesy, he wouldn't have known because managers aren't told these things. In fact, no member of staff is told these things, it's a decision made purely by the manager (if there is one) and the general management team. So I don't think they'd be able to say anything against any stupid decisions as they wouldn't know anything. If Nixt, he's no longer here but he might have known before he left I suppose.

You say decisions are rushed but how long do you actually expect them to do choosing staff? Some decisions take five minutes as a person really stands out and some decisions take longer as there are a couple of people worthy of the job. I sincerely hope length of time in a job never becomes a criteria for a promotion. It's what you do in your job, not how long you do it imo.

As I've said before in the other thread, I'm not really a fan of closing threads either. It just seems a 'get out clause' that general management use to add their opinion then not have to reply to the backlash/questions/comments that would result from said opinion. However, after losing a previous HxHD assistant manager because of a feedback thread, I suppose I can see why they may have rushed to close it rather than letting it continue.

[Chippiewill]

I'm going to guess you have also aimed this part for both Martin and Jordesh, yes? Well ok.
Not specifically but recently in general.



In regards of Jordesh the decision was not rushed. It has been in the General Management & HxHD Management minds for a new Assistant when Shar decided to resign, once we looked at all of the possible candidates we came to a decision on who should get the role. The final decision was that Jordesh should get the shot of being part of the management team and with his good work and dedication in his previous roles we believe it was the correct decision to do and he should do a very good job of it. I have already started other people in that department are also dedicated and do a fantastic job but you cannot give the job to everyone, if they stay and decide to show that dedication even more then they will have a shot at management or even any other role that may be suitable for them.

I would hope that you'd assign the position as temporary, if at the end you find no one else then fine. 25-09-2010 is not that far back in my opinion.



Now onto Martin,

Yes Martin resigned as Forum Management and today decided he wanted to stay with the department and be a Super Moderator again. I know it might not look ideal in terms of the members eyes but Martin is a very dedicated staff member at Habbox and is a true credit for what he does in the News Department as a News Manager and also is time within the Forum Department. The Super Moderator role is not done by applications and is normally done within the department from Forum Moderator > Super Moderator, if a previous member of the team such as Martin decided he would like to come back and at times we do allow them to return to their previous role. Although, that does depend how the department is managing at the moment and if we are able to fit them in. Martin does a good job at what he does and will continue to be a very good Super Moderator.
It is still not fair on other people regardless of who good of a job they will do, just like in many other situations recently.


It's what you do in your job, not how long you do it imo.
Granted, as long as they have shown they can support the work load over a prolonged amount of time, which, I would like to point out does not apply in many cases.


I'm not sure if you're referencing Jamesy or the person you're quoting (Nixt?) when you say 'he... would have known'. If Jamesy, he wouldn't have known because managers aren't told these things. In fact, no member of staff is told these things, it's a decision made purely by the manager (if there is one) and the general management team. So I don't think they'd be able to say anything against any stupid decisions as they wouldn't know anything. If Nixt, he's no longer here but he might have known before he left I suppose.
Generally it's a nice idea to keep people in the loop, there's no reason not to, there may have been valid points such as this situation.

Someone, somewhere, at some point CLEARLY not thinking about what people will do when removed from a position of power without the power being removed:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=669783&p=6768885

"Absolute power, corrupts absolutely" by the way.

[xxMATTGxx]

I would hope that you'd assign the position as temporary, if at the end you find no one else then fine. 25-09-2010 is not that far back in my opinion.

For Jordesh? There was no need to hire him as temporary.

I'm not being funny but in regards of the Moderation Staff how can you say it is unfair? There is four moderators out of six that are still on their trial. They need to pass that trial before they can be moved up to a Super Moderator at least. There is two who could of been promoted but the reasons behind that are not something that will be posted about in the public eye.



It is still not fair on other people regardless of who good of a job they will do, just like in many other situations recently.

Not everything is fair in life I'm afraid. People who have been in departments longer than others may have an affect if they should be promoted or not but other aspects do come into play such as dedication and other things. I'm not saying all staff are perfect (no department is) in HxHD but I'm not going to say they are all crap because that would be wrong of me to say so and would also be incorrect information. There was a few people who could of been promoted to Assistant HxHD Manager and we chose Jordesh for our reasons, the other people will get their chance if someone decides to resign.

[Chippiewill]

There is two who could of been promoted but the reasons behind that are not something that will be posted about in the public eye.

Care to explain?



Not everything is fair in life I'm afraid. People who have been in departments longer than other may have an affect if they should be promoted or not but other aspects do come into play such as dedication and other things. I'm not saying all staff are perfect in HxHD but I'm not going to say they are all crap because that would be wrong of me to say so and would also be incorrect information. There was a few people who could of been promoted to Assistant HxHD Manager and we chose Jordesh for our reasons, the other people will get their change if someone decides to resign.

So instead of more experienced staff you choose someone who has been around for barely a month and decide that they can handle heavy workload because they've been SS for a whole 15 days?

[xxMATTGxx]

Care to explain?


I'm not willing to explain any department information with you or other members who do not need to know. Promotions are not decided by you or any other member and are decided by General Management with the input of department managers. That is our information and will stay our information.



So instead of more experienced staff you choose someone who has been around for barely a month and decide that they can handle heavy workload because they've done it for a whole 15 days?

Do you even know who the guy is? The decision won't be changing and you just need to give him a chance, if you are not willing to give him a chance then that is your problem.

[Chippiewill]

I'm not willing to explain any department information with you or other members who do not need to know. Promotions are not decided by you or any other member and are decided by General Management with the input of department managers. That is our information and will stay our information.

That is the stubborn attitude that I'd management was past. You NEED to realise that the decision will ALWAYS be under judgement by users and that users will leave over the particularly bad ones.





Do you even know who the guy is? The decision won't be changing and you just need to give him a chance, if you are not willing to give him a chance then that is your problem.
I don't want you to change the decision, THAT would be unfair, I want you to acknowledge that YOU made the wrong decision.

[Mr-Trainor]

I really don't think you can say Matt has a 'stubborn attitude'. He has clearly stated that it is private information which belongs to the GM forums and through my experience on other fansites, that is not stubborn and is what should be done :).

[xxMATTGxx]

That is the stubborn attitude that I'd management was past. You NEED to realise that the decision will ALWAYS be under judgement by users and that users will leave over the particularly bad ones.




I don't want you to change the decision, THAT would be unfair, I want you to acknowledge that YOU made the wrong decision.

Excuse me? So you want me to start posting information about all staff members and say this person is crap because of this and this person is fantastic because of this. I hope that isn't serious because how do you think that would make them feel if we started posting that sort of information out to everyone. It is not right and it isn't going to happen.


I don't want you to change the decision, THAT would be unfair, I want you to acknowledge that YOU made the wrong decision.

Erm, I've never believed it was the wrong decision. Jordesh is a dedicated member of staff and I'm sure he will do very well at his new role as Assistant HxHD Management. All I said was that, yes other people could of got the job but there could of been slight reasons why they didn't. Oh and I'm not posting them details either!

[Chippiewill]

I really don't think you can say Matt has a 'stubborn attitude'. He has clearly stated that it is private information which belongs to the GM forums and through my experience on other fansites, that is not stubborn and is what should be done :).

I was not responding to that point?

[Inseriousity.]

You don't need to be in a job for 6 months to know if they can handle a heavy workload tbh. Alkaz was Content Manager for less than 15 days and he was promoted to Assistant General Manager (Content) and has been for 10 months now.

[Chippiewill]

You don't need to be in a job for 6 months to know if they can handle a heavy workload tbh. Alkaz was Content Manager for less than 15 days and he was promoted to Assistant General Manager (Content) and has been for 10 months now.
And it would be pointless discussing that now, I am only using these incidences as examples. It is entirely possible that he'll be fine, in fact it's probable, it does not change the fact that conditions change and he may have other commitments which are not so much problems right now.

[Sammeth.]

As if this is even an issue. Management make these decisions after carefully looking at all options and have valid reasons. They don't just think "You know what, this will do" and just run with it. I'd let it go as it doesn't really concern you nor does it affect you in the slightest. I'm sure that the staff that were overlooked this time around are gonna be okay, and if they persevere then at least they can stick with it for the next opportunity and they have even more time to prove themselves.

[Chippiewill]

As if this is even an issue. Management make these decisions after carefully looking at all options and have valid reasons. They don't just think "You know what, this will do" and just run with it. I'd let it go as it doesn't really concern you nor does it affect you in the slightest. I'm sure that the staff that were overlooked this time around are gonna be okay, and if they persevere then at least they can stick with it for the next opportunity and they have even more time to prove themselves.

9/10 it'll all work out fine, it's the 1/10 that concerns me.


I'd let it go as it doesn't really concern you nor does it affect you in the slightest.
Not in this instance, but in others it is entirely possible. Again, I am using these as examples to prevent this happening in future, not so that these ones can be changed.

[HotelUser]

Another thing I want to point out (which I don't think a lot of people realize) is that, really, we are and always have been like any other online forum when it comes to promotions. In the past there's been a stint where not only did general management promote who they thought were best suited for the job, but any threads retaining to questioning the legitimacy of the promotion got swiftly locked.

Be thankful that you can get away with complaining about such decisions these days, anyway. Especially considering how inconclusive they really are. No, you or anybody else isn't completely left in the dark but do you really know why, for instance, Shar resigned from Habbox in the first place before just about everyone jumped on the insult bandwagon? In the case of Jordan, how do you know there aren't super staff axe murders who couldn't be hired (and I'm not saying anyone is an axe murder that's strictly an example).

General management, as they always have and will continue to do so, promote who they believe will do the job the best. This isn't the Sims. They can't accommodate and appease everyone and every staffmember and they shouldn't have to. They should strive to do what will make Habbox function the best, and make management decisions which are in the best interest for Habbox, not allow that vision to be compromised because someone's upset that they didn't get promoted :P

[xxMATTGxx]

9/10 it'll all work out fine, it's the 1/10 that concerns me.


Not in this instance, but in others it is entirely possible. Again, I am using these as examples to prevent this happening in future, not so that these ones can be changed.

It would depend on the situation at the time, you can't promise not do something like this again in the future. Considering we don't think it was a bad decision to do this. Although, different people will get promotions from time to time, each department have their own staff and the situations aren't the same.

[Recursion]

I'd just like to point out, especially in the forum department, people don't get things right, despite reading all the provided information until we actually have to put the knowledge into use on a "real world" thread or post, and when we aren't sure or get something wrong superior staff are always willing to help us out, so in that sense I don't see how you can possibly argue that someone isn't ready. If that person shows willingness, experience and above all, some common sense, they may well be perfect for the job as it is.

[Hecktix]

I think this is something we need to iron out and we need to iron it out pretty sharpish. I'm going to say the following once, and once only:

No decisions regarding Habbox Managerial Positions are rushed - in any manner.

It takes hours if not days for General Management to decide on an (Assistant) Departmental Manager unless there is a glaringly obvious choice (that's to General Management - not the public). I'm afraid that the bottom line is, Habbox is not a democracy and I'm gonna sound a total ass saying this, but it's ultimately the General Manager's decision who to hire as a Manager and we the AGM team contribute where appropriate and sometimes your opinion may vary from that of the GM team, who have a lot of experience within all the departments and have generally managed departments themselves, therefore they know the qualities required.

There's no set criteria for a Manager, we choose the person who we believe will do the Department justice, that's not always necessarily the person who had been there the longest or been online the most etc. I'm not saying General Management get it right every time, that's not true but what is wrong is people jumping down our throats immediately when decisions are made - when you know nothing about how capable or well a certain member may act in their role, as they've been in it less than 5 minutes.

This is something we need to stamp out, yes, naturally some people are going to be unhappy with certain appointments and that's the way it always has been and always will be - however what has never been allowed at Habbox is this public tearing apart of new managers - it's a form of bullying and they most definitely aren't going to fulfil their potential if people put them down publicly from the word go. People need to learn to accept that there's a Management structure here at Habbox and the decisions about ranks come from the top and those decisions are final.

As everybody should know, feedback (including complaints) is always welcome at Habbox however only if the complaints are valid, we assure you that no managerial decisions are rushed and you have to trust us on that, because making a complaint about a certain person being put in a certain role (especially in public) holds no validity. You are entitled to your opinion but before you complain you should find some evidence and facts that this person is not a good manager and to do that they need a chance to show it.

The reason these threads get closed is because they break the forum rules, particularly this one:


A1. Respect other forum members ~ Always respect other forum members, this means do not be rude towards them and respect their opinions. You should not bully or victimise other members for any reason and you should not behave in a negative manner excessively.

Members opinions are always listened to here at Habbox, at least a lot more than in the past and everybody knows that.

On top of this, the fact you are questioning the re-hiring of one of the best Forum Super Moderators Habbox has seen in recent times makes me question your motives behind posting threads such as this.

Anyway, Thread Closed - and if you want to know why, read rule A1.