Tuition fee rises will not affect Welsh Students!

[Hecktix]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11878033

I think this is pretty disgraceful to be honest, the Scottish students get it free, the Welsh Assembly has decided to subsidise the difference when our wonderful Government put tuition fees up, why is it that only English students are going to be screwed over by this tuition fee rise?

[Suspective]

Where do you think the money for the Welsh Assembly comes from?

England of course.

[Hecktix]

Where do you think the money for the Welsh Assembly comes from?

England of course.

That's the entire point, if they can use the Governments money to subsidise Welsh Students then it is unfair for English students not to recieve the same treatment.

However, I think this is an important event in the suggested tuition fee rises as I am now starting to doubt whether it will get through parliament at all, there seems to be quite a lot of opposition so I think this may be the first major time the coalition gets itself into a bit of a situation.

[Pyroka]

What the hell are you talking about?

If English fees go up, and Welsh fees stay same, where do you think English students will go to? And which students will be affected due to that?

[Hecktix]

What the hell are you talking about?

If English fees go up, and Welsh fees stay same, where do you think English students will go to? And which students will be affected due to that?

Welsh Students, Ryan - as in by nationality. Any Welsh Student wishing to attend any UK university will not have to pay the rise as the Assembly will cover it for them. Good move by the Welsh Assembly and a key move in showing that the Coalition Government are wrong.

[Conservative,]

It's their money from the British Government. It doesn't come from England - it comes from Britain. I personally think as every other country has one, England should have their own government, however I don't really care for the rises, people are making too much fuss over nothing.

[Pyroka]

Welsh Students, Ryan - as in by nationality. Any Welsh Student wishing to attend any UK university will not have to pay the rise as the Assembly will cover it for them. Good move by the Welsh Assembly and a key move in showing that the Coalition Government are wrong.

OH WHAT!? That's a total joke!

[Suspective]

Its about time that Scotland becomes independent, and Wales get a lot more power. If they didn't get any financial backing from Westminster, they wouldn't be able to fund all these 'free giveaways' on universities and care etc. That way, England would have more of a budget. Just keep foreign affairs, defense and immigration centrally controlled.

[Hecktix]

It's their money from the British Government. It doesn't come from England - it comes from Britain. I personally think as every other country has one, England should have their own government, however I don't really care for the rises, people are making too much fuss over nothing.

Okay darlin' when you're at uni and struggling to feed yourself cause you're so poor you come back and say that then xoxox

Money is unbelievably tight within university students at the moment, I can say that from experience so the poor beggars who suffer in 2012 are gonna be living off bread and water imo.

Although this is a positive sign also as I have said, as it's looking bleak for this proposal in terms of it getting through Parliament.

[Conservative,]

Okay darlin' when you're at uni and struggling to feed yourself cause you're so poor you come back and say that then xoxox

Money is unbelievably tight within university students at the moment, I can say that from experience so the poor beggars who suffer in 2012 are gonna be living off bread and water imo.

Although this is a positive sign also as I have said, as it's looking bleak for this proposal in terms of it getting through Parliament.

They'll get it through. But you may have experience...but you know you don't pay until after right...? Take out a student loan, get a job - you're fine. Pay it back when you're earning 21k. Again this is no big deal, if they welsh wish to waste their money then they can. I wish people would stop complaining -.-"

[Hecktix]

They'll get it through. But you may have experience...but you know you don't pay until after right...? Take out a student loan, get a job - you're fine. Pay it back when you're earning 21k. Again this is no big deal, if they welsh wish to waste their money then they can. I wish people would stop complaining -.-"

Lol you seem to think it's so easy to walk out into the real world with a debt of £20-30k for students now, and £30-40k for students after 2012. WOO YEAH LET'S TAKE OUT LOADS OF LOANS...

[Suspective]

How would you like to be stuck with debt hanging over your head for years? I don't think you can see the importance of it. Being in debt isn't exactly reassuring especially if you haven't even worked and brought a house etc. In your early 20s you shouldn't have to be in debt.

You always make yourself sound as if you live in some Mansion in Surrey, Robbie.

[Hecktix]

How would you like to be stuck with debt hanging over your head for years? I don't think you can see the importance of it. Being in debt isn't exactly reassuring especially if you haven't even worked and brought a house etc. In your early 20s you shouldn't have to be in debt.

You always make yourself sound as if you live in some Mansion in Surrey, Robbie.

Precisely, a debt hanging over your neck of a large amount can really damage you later in life, for instance say you are earning the minimum payback threshold (atm it's £15,000, then it'll be £21k but the amount is irrelevant), you are earning exactly this. You want to buy a house, yet the bank won't give you a mortgage because they aren't sure you can afford it as you're paying your student loan.

[.x.miss.angel.x]

I know im not going to uni for umm, 4 years, but i think all kids should hop onto a fun bus to scotland/wales so we can get a higher education without being left with big debts.

[Shar]

They'll get it through. But you may have experience...but you know you don't pay until after right...? Take out a student loan, get a job - you're fine. Pay it back when you're earning 21k. Again this is no big deal, if they welsh wish to waste their money then they can. I wish people would stop complaining -.-"
Some of us don't want to live in debt all of our lives. We are not COMPLAINING we're just putting our thoughts across over this matter, and we have a right to. I respect your opinions, however telling us that when we share ours we are "complaining" is out of line.
We're not millionaires, the majority of us are working class students who are struggling to afford a living let alone paying a ridiculous amount of money for education. We have a right to be angry that in the UK only those in England will have to be paying a huge sum of money.
I don't want to be worrying about paying about student loans as well as a mortgage if I buy a house and I'd like to buy a decent car as well, this won't be possible if I'm in debt until I die, lol.

[Rapidshare]

20K debt as well your earning 21K. I worked out that you can pay your debt completely by 3 years, that completely nothing. Stop moaning, it not like we are unlucky. Maybe you all should live in a america.

[Hecktix]

20K debt as well your earning 21K. I worked out that you can pay your debt completely by 3 years, that completely nothing. Stop moaning, it not like we are unlucky. Maybe you all should live in a america.

Lol, you worked out you could pay £20k debt in 3 years - where was the person living, the streets?

[Rapidshare]

Lol, you worked out you could pay £20k debt in 3 years - where was the person living, the streets?

No, it called saving and not spending it. Surely you could work that out?

[Shar]

20K debt as well your earning 21K. I worked out that you can pay your debt completely by 3 years, that completely nothing. Stop moaning, it not like we are unlucky. Maybe you all should live in a america.
Can you explain your logic behind this please? How would someone be able to afford to pay your entire debt in three years? :S

[Chippiewill]

Racists :'(

Seriously: Well if the Scots and the Welsh aren't going to pay then why should it fall on our shoulders to pay higher university fees? I thought EVERYONE had to make cuts, not just the minority who don't get a say because we trusted the British government? I shouldn't complain though, I won't have financial problems for university.



No, it called saving and not spending it. Surely you could work that out?
Good luck paying for food, furniture, water, gas, electricity, rent, insurance etc. on 1K per year.

[Inseriousity.]

Welsh people go to uni?
(hehe only joking sarah, mike etc)

America? People refusing to go to hospital until they're staring death in the face? Paying all that money for university? I'll pass.

Just because we don't live in a country where the fees are higher in a different country doesn't mean we don't have the right to protest over here about it. That's like saying we can't complain about anything in the NHS cos it's free and you have to pay in America.

[Hecktix]

Racists :'(

Seriously: Well if the Scots and the Welsh aren't going to pay then why should it fall on our shoulders to pay higher university fees? I thought EVERYONE had to make cuts, not just the minority who don't get a say because we trusted the British government? I shouldn't complain though, I won't have financial problems for university.



Good luck paying for food, furniture, water, gas, electricity, rent, insurance etc. on 1K per year.


You can complain and you should, whether it's gonna cause you trouble or not it'll cause others trouble, that's enough to complain in my eyes.

[Shar]

No, it called saving and not spending it. Surely you could work that out?
What by walking around naked and starving ourselves? How else will we save that much money..

[Conservative,]

Lol you seem to think it's so easy to walk out into the real world with a debt of £20-30k for students now, and £30-40k for students after 2012. WOO YEAH LET'S TAKE OUT LOADS OF LOANS...

THE MAXIMUM will be £27k debt. I don't know how you worked out £30-£40k...unless you're going to go to America in which case it's more likely to be £50-60k.


How would you like to be stuck with debt hanging over your head for years? I don't think you can see the importance of it. Being in debt isn't exactly reassuring especially if you haven't even worked and brought a house etc. In your early 20s you shouldn't have to be in debt.

You always make yourself sound as if you live in some Mansion in Surrey, Robbie.

I wish. I have a plan, I'll do it. It may not be easy to live with debt hanging over you head. But millions of people have done it and do it every year?


20K debt as well your earning 21K. I worked out that you can pay your debt completely by 3 years, that completely nothing. Stop moaning, it not like we are unlucky. Maybe you all should live in a america.

Although I question the time you have said, I agree. We are VERY lucky. People are just selfish money-hogging *******. This IS NOT much. As he said. Go live in America. Then you'll be ****** grateful for our tertiary education.



And just letting you guys know...I live in a semi-detached house just outside London with 5 bedrooms. Ok maybe slightly above average but I'm by no means rich like a few of my friends. I will be taking a student loan like everyone else and I will be paying it off like everyone else. The difference is I have ambition and the realisation that people are far worse off than me.

And Shar. It is complaining. It may be an opinion that it's too expensive. But it's also complaining. That's like me saying to my teacher getting a detention for not doing my homework is unfair, he tells me to stop complaining then I say it's not complaining. It is, but it's also an opinion. I just think some people need to go into the big wide world and realise how lucky they are.

[Inseriousity.]

THE MAXIMUM will be £27k debt. I don't know how you worked out £30-£40k...unless you're going to go to America in which case it's more likely to be £50-60k.

haha that's for your course. You still have to eat, pay lots of money for student accomodation etc etc so 30-40k is around about right.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You can complain and you should, whether it's gonna cause you trouble or not it'll cause others trouble, that's enough to complain in my eyes.

While I understand the anger at the rise, I have one question which will see how much you (and many others really care about the issue); are you going to vote Labour come next election? if the answer is yes then there really is no point in complaining or protesting as Labour also told lies during 2001 over this very issue and more to the point they brought the fees in in the first place. If the answer is no, then there's no hypocrisy which is good and means you actually have a cause/a poin in this debate.

In terms of devolution, that is the way devolution works - it is down to the Welsh Assembly/Scottish Parliament how and where they allocate funding (this was also a Labour policy, devolution). What is wrong about the funding of the United Kingdom is the way in which England pays most of the bills, and by that I mean; more is spent per head on those in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales than those in England (known as the Barnett formula) - funding should be equal for parts of the Kingdom.

[Hecktix]

THE MAXIMUM will be £27k debt. I don't know how you worked out £30-£40k...unless you're going to go to America in which case it's more likely to be £50-60k.



I wish. I have a plan, I'll do it. It may not be easy to live with debt hanging over you head. But millions of people have done it and do it every year?



Although I question the time you have said, I agree. We are VERY lucky. People are just selfish money-hogging *******. This IS NOT much. As he said. Go live in America. Then you'll be ****** grateful for our tertiary education.



And just letting you guys know...I live in a semi-detached house just outside London with 5 bedrooms. Ok maybe slightly above average but I'm by no means rich like a few of my friends. I will be taking a student loan like everyone else and I will be paying it off like everyone else. The difference is I have ambition and the realisation that people are far worse off than me.

And Shar. It is complaining. It may be an opinion that it's too expensive. But it's also complaining. That's like me saying to my teacher getting a detention for not doing my homework is unfair, he tells me to stop complaining then I say it's not complaining. It is, but it's also an opinion. I just think some people need to go into the big wide world and realise how lucky they are.

It would seem to me, you have no idea about finances Robbie. I currently have a loan of £8,000 a year to cover my tuition fees, accommodation and living expenses.

£3000 tuition fees
£5000 maintenance

£8,000 x 3 years = £24,000

Okay, so now assume that's paying the minimum fees of £6,000, that would increase my loan to £11,000.

£11,000 x 3 years = £33,000 and that is the minimum.

[Chippiewill]

I miss them days when the Government paid for us to go to university and companies paid for everything else in university life. I never experienced them but I'm sure they were nice n' cosy.

[Hecktix]

While I understand the anger at the rise, I have one question which will see how much you (and many others really care about the issue); are you going to vote Labour come next election? if the answer is yes then there really is no point in complaining or protesting as Labour also told lies during 2001 over this very issue and more to the point they brought the fees in in the first place. If the answer is no, then there's no hypocrisy which is good and means you actually have a cause/a poin in this debate.

In terms of devolution, that is the way devolution works - it is down to the Welsh Assembly/Scottish Parliament how and where they allocate funding (this was also a Labour policy, devolution). What is wrong about the funding of the United Kingdom is the way in which England pays most of the bills, and by that I mean; more is spent per head on those in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales than those in England (known as the Barnett formula) - funding should be equal for parts of the Kingdom.

I shall vote for the party I believe will make a difference, whoever that may be in 2015. It certainly won't be Conservative. Labour may have lied in the past however Labour may be the reason this tuition fees increase doesn't get through Parliament.

[Conservative,]

There is no minimum Oli. And maybe you need a job? I don't mean to be rude, but if you;re using that kind of money with no kind of income then I think you need something to pay at least a bit of it back. If you do I'm sorry but then if you are then you've missed it out with your calculations ;)

As I said, there is no minimum and actually £6,000 is the maximum unless they offer extensive and very high benefits and reductions to poorer students as well as scholarships.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I shall vote for the party I believe will make a difference, whoever that may be in 2015. It certainly won't be Conservative. Labour may have lied in the past however Labour may be the reason this tuition fees increase doesn't get through Parliament.

But only because they want your vote, just as in 2001 when they also lied - once in office they did the exact same as the Liberal Democrats did.

If you don't like it then for goodness sake please do not vote for it.

[Chippiewill]

There is no minimum Oli. And maybe you need a job? I don't mean to be rude, but if you;re using that kind of money with no kind of income then I think you need something to pay at least a bit of it back. If you do I'm sorry but then if you are then you've missed it out with your calculations ;)

As I said, there is no minimum and actually £6,000 is the maximum unless they offer extensive and very high benefits and reductions to poorer students as well as scholarships.

Minimum that universities will set it too :)


But only because they want your vote, just as in 2001 when they also lied - once in office they did the exact same as the Liberal Democrats did.

If you don't like it then for goodness sake please do not vote for it.

UKIP can't be in power for the next election, so there's no point voting for them expecting them to change this. Labour is the only one which may play a part in preventing this, therefore voting for them is strategic.

[Hecktix]

But only because they want your vote, just as in 2001 when they also lied - once in office they did the exact same as the Liberal Democrats did.

If you don't like it then for goodness sake please do not vote for it.

You could argue that any political party makes any decision because they want your vote. 2001, was also 9 years ago. Time moves on.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You could argue that any political party makes any decision because they want your vote. 2001, was also 9 years ago. Time moves on.

You could, but then you could also argue - why be taken for a mug time after time by the exact same bunch of liars, spin doctors and con-artists? Time does move on, but what suggests these people have changed in the slightest? I know in 2015 the same fever will grip the likes of yourself just as it did with Liberal Democrats in 2010 and the likes of Miliband will be out there signing pledges, making promises etc (just as Blair and Brown did in 2001) and they could very well win and what will they do that they usually do? - they'll rat on us all again.

I'm presuming you voted for Labour this time (2010) - again, it knocks down your supposed 'outrage' over this issue, unless of course you make yourself a pledge not to be taken for a fool/a mug yet again. The same also applies to Conservative voters and Liberal Democrat voters.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[Shar]

THE MAXIMUM will be £27k debt. I don't know how you worked out £30-£40k...unless you're going to go to America in which case it's more likely to be £50-60k.



I wish. I have a plan, I'll do it. It may not be easy to live with debt hanging over you head. But millions of people have done it and do it every year?



Although I question the time you have said, I agree. We are VERY lucky. People are just selfish money-hogging *******. This IS NOT much. As he said. Go live in America. Then you'll be ****** grateful for our tertiary education.



And just letting you guys know...I live in a semi-detached house just outside London with 5 bedrooms. Ok maybe slightly above average but I'm by no means rich like a few of my friends. I will be taking a student loan like everyone else and I will be paying it off like everyone else. The difference is I have ambition and the realisation that people are far worse off than me.

And Shar. It is complaining. It may be an opinion that it's too expensive. But it's also complaining. That's like me saying to my teacher getting a detention for not doing my homework is unfair, he tells me to stop complaining then I say it's not complaining. It is, but it's also an opinion. I just think some people need to go into the big wide world and realise how lucky they are.
Okay so you have realisation yet you're saying we're complaining? I won't tell you my living conditions as that is extremely private, but what I can tell you is I don't even live in a 3 bedroom house let alone 5. I have the right to be mad and complain about having to pay a huge amount of money in order to have an education which will get me a decent living so I can get out of this crap situation, by no means does that mean I am complaining.
You aren't just slightly well off, but more than well off than me and a lot of others. You can't say we have no ambition just because we're making a stand against the rise in fees. I think you need to see how lucky you are and need to stop telling others to stop complaining when they're the ones who are going to be hugely affected by this rise in tuition fees.

[Hecktix]

You could, but then you could also argue - why be taken for a mug time after time by the exact same bunch of liars, spin doctors and con-artists? Time does move on, but what suggests these people have changed in the slightest? I know in 2015 the same fever will grip the likes of yourself just as it did with Liberal Democrats in 2010 and the likes of Miliband will be out there signing pledges, making promises etc (just as Blair and Brown did in 2001) and they could very well win and what will they do that they usually do? - they'll rat on us all again.

I'm presuming you voted for Labour this time (2010) - again, it knocks down your supposed 'outrage' over this issue, unless of course you make yourself a pledge not to be taken for a fool/a mug yet again. The same also applies to Conservative voters and Liberal Democrat voters.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I'm just wondering where you got your crystall ball dan, your predictions for 2015 seem to be so accurate. I don't care what Labour will do in 2015, I don't care what anybody will do in 2015, I care what the Conservatives and LD's are doing now, and if Labour are going to vote against this dratted plan (whether they may have proposed it themselves or not) then I will back them doing so. In this issue I will stand by any party voting against this outrageous increase, which is going to involve English students, and only English students disadvantaged.

[Rapidshare]

Anyone consider having a job while at uni? I easily get 500 pounds a month just working at mcdonalds.

[Chippiewill]

I'm just wondering where you got your crystall ball dan, your predictions for 2015 seem to be so accurate. I don't care what Labour will do in 2015, I don't care what anybody will do in 2015, I care what the Conservatives and LD's are doing now, and if Labour are going to vote against this dratted plan (whether they may have proposed it themselves or not) then I will back them doing so. In this issue I will stand by any party voting against this outrageous increase, which is going to involve English students, and only English students disadvantaged.
hear hear.

Besides, if there was a government which actually kept promises then power would never change hands.

[FlyingJesus]

Lol, you worked out you could pay £20k debt in 3 years - where was the person living, the streets?

Well earning £21k+ a year it would be quite possible, you'd be living as though you earned around £13k instead though, so 3 years is a little optimistic if you want to enjoy the money you're earning rather than continue to live student style. I know the figures being thrown around by the kiddies in this thread are wrong anyway but paying back a bigger loan only when you're earning 21k and over is always going to be easier than starting once you're at 15k, especially considering how small the interest and repayments are. Not so small if you are for some reason thinking you can do it comfortably in 3 years but I don't know of any major loans that get paid off in that time by normal earners.


Good luck paying for food, furniture, water, gas, electricity, rent, insurance etc. on 1K per year.

Where have you got 1k a year from? I don't think anyone suggested paying off the whole loan in one year once you're earning over the threshold


maybe you need a job? I don't mean to be rude, but if you;re using that kind of money with no kind of income then I think you need something to pay at least a bit of it back. If you do I'm sorry but then if you are then you've missed it out with your calculations ;)

You have no idea what uni life is like, or how difficult it can be for many students to not only get a job in the first place but then to hold onto it and still not fall behind with studies. First year is perhaps a little different as it's easier and has less pressures, but in the first year you need to be socialising so that you're not wanting to kill yourself by the time you've got through it. It's not as easy a balance as you seem to believe - for those who want a life alongside everything anyway. Furthermore you take for granted living at home that the "little" things like electricity and water are just there to use even if you are older and paying rent, but it really does add up quickly even when you're being extremely careful

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'm just wondering where you got your crystall ball dan, your predictions for 2015 seem to be so accurate. I don't care what Labour will do in 2015, I don't care what anybody will do in 2015, I care what the Conservatives and LD's are doing now, and if Labour are going to vote against this dratted plan (whether they may have proposed it themselves or not) then I will back them doing so. In this issue I will stand by any party voting against this outrageous increase, which is going to involve English students, and only English students disadvantaged.

No crystal ball here, i'm just looking at the uncomfortable facts and putting them to everyone.

Labour are the exact same when they are in office concerning this one issue (and many others one might argue) so why complain now when you would consider voting (or did vote) for the exact same outcome come last/next election? Say in 2015 Labour win the election, imagine if in 2016 Labour increase fees by another £5,000 despite promising not to do so - and then Nick Clegg comes on TV slamming both the policy and the fact the Labour Party have broken their promise - well that is what has just happened.

If yourself and many others are going to continue being tribal then it just screams insincerity over this whole issue.

[Neversoft]

brb becoming a welsh national

But seriously, what the hell? LIFE ISN'T FAIR! Regretting so much that I didn't go to uni before all of this nonsense.

[Conservative,]

Okay so you have realisation yet you're saying we're complaining? I won't tell you my living conditions as that is extremely private, but what I can tell you is I don't even live in a 3 bedroom house let alone 5. I have the right to be mad and complain about having to pay a huge amount of money in order to have an education which will get me a decent living so I can get out of this crap situation, by no means does that mean I am complaining.
You aren't just slightly well off, but more than well off than me and a lot of others. You can't say we have no ambition just because we're making a stand against the rise in fees. I think you need to see how lucky you are and need to stop telling others to stop complaining when they're the ones who are going to be hugely affected by this rise in tuition fees.

If your a poorer student then you'll get help with paying for it. Alternatively take a apprenticeship? The whole "OMG I NEED TO GO TO UNI OR I'LL FAIL IN LIFE" irks me. You don't have to - I simply want to due to the nature of career I wish to go on to.

I may be in a more privileged position than some, but if that's the case then I should be the one moaning/complaining or as you say "exercising our opinion". The hardest hit will be middle class citizens such as myself. The working class and poorer students will get huge pay packages to help with the money and the rich can just pay it off. But my family won't get any help because my father makes enough money. The only help I'm getting is from my deceased Grandfather who has set up a fund to help pay for University.

So you are, as you said, perfectly entitled to your opinion. But I'm entitled to thinking it's complaining.

[Mathew]

I miss them days when the Government paid for us to go to university and companies paid for everything else in university life. I never experienced them but I'm sure they were nice n' cosy.
Of course, let's have the taxpayer pay for everyone and their cousin to get a degree. There's a lack of people wanting to go to University isn't there? :rolleyes:


America? People refusing to go to hospital until they're staring death in the face?
Sadly, this is all too true. My Mum knows someone in the states who stuggles with finances and their family only seeks medical attention if it's really bad. Thank goodness for the NHS, is all I can say.

I do, however, think Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland should just learn to run their own "countries" and stop picking off England. There was something big in the media a few months ago about Scotland still getting so much money from British parliament, but then still getting their own sum of money because they're kinda... "half-independent." Why not just fully break away? :(

[Chippiewill]

Of course, let's have the taxpayer pay for everyone and their cousin to get a degree. There's a lack of people wanting to go to University isn't there? :rolleyes:


There was..

[Shar]

If your a poorer student then you'll get help with paying for it. Alternatively take a apprenticeship? The whole "OMG I NEED TO GO TO UNI OR I'LL FAIL IN LIFE" irks me. You don't have to - I simply want to due to the nature of career I wish to go on to.

I may be in a more privileged position than some, but if that's the case then I should be the one moaning/complaining or as you say "exercising our opinion". The hardest hit will be middle class citizens such as myself. The working class and poorer students will get huge pay packages to help with the money and the rich can just pay it off. But my family won't get any help because my father makes enough money. The only help I'm getting is from my deceased Grandfather who has set up a fund to help pay for University.

So you are, as you said, perfectly entitled to your opinion. But I'm entitled to thinking it's complaining.
I'm kind of offended by the fact that you called me a "poorer" student, I'd prefer the term underprivileged. And no we don't get a lot of support and help with money, I know this for a fact because my sister is at uni at the moment.

I've always had the ambition to go to university and I will be going one day, and I am not at all complaining, I'm just putting my opinion across.

[Hecktix]

If your a poorer student then you'll get help with paying for it. Alternatively take a apprenticeship? The whole "OMG I NEED TO GO TO UNI OR I'LL FAIL IN LIFE" irks me. You don't have to - I simply want to due to the nature of career I wish to go on to.


Everybody has the right to go to University, if you have an ambition to work in a certain industry a lot of the time that requires you to have a degree. The wealth of your family should not decide who gets degrees it should be based upon intelligence.

[Conservative,]

I'm kind of offended by the fact that you called me a "poorer" student, I'd prefer the term underprivileged. And no we don't get a lot of support and help with money, I know this for a fact because my sister is at uni at the moment.

Key word being if I never said you were. And the Uni's putting their prices up have to offer more support to more people.

[Chippiewill]

Key word being if I never said you were. And the Uni's putting their prices up have to offer more support to more people.
I don't think the word 'if' makes a difference in this situation, you still used the word poor and not underprivileged.

Also, university admittance should be based on A-level results entirely, not ability to pay for it.

[Conservative,]

Everybody has the right to go to University, if you have an ambition to work in a certain industry a lot of the time that requires you to have a degree. The wealth of your family should not decide who gets degrees it should be based upon intelligence.

But the problem is everyone thinks they need it. We need to empty the Universities a bit, not fill them up more.

I'd be all against the cuts if:

They got rid of pointless degrees such as "studies of aliens in american culture" or "golf course management".
The fees were as high as other world-leading countries.
more was done for those who had better grades; ie to those who got A*A*A* at A level got grants rather than poorer students who got CCC.

But those aren't happening so I'm for it.



I don't think the word 'if' makes a difference in this situation.


She is saying that I said she was poorer. I didn't I said "if you" meaning anyone.

[Rapidshare]

Who gives a **** if he said poorer, it true.

[Chippiewill]

She is saying that I said she was poorer. I didn't I said "if you" meaning anyone.
It's the fact you used the word poor, not that you called her poor.

[Hecktix]

But the problem is everyone thinks they need it. We need to empty the Universities a bit, not fill them up more.

I'd be all against the cuts if:

They got rid of pointless degrees such as "studies of aliens in american culture" or "golf course management".
The fees were as high as other world-leading countries.
more was done for those who had better grades; ie to those who got A*A*A* at A level got grants rather than poorer students who got CCC.

But those aren't happening so I'm for it.





She is saying that I said she was poorer. I didn't I said "if you" meaning anyone.

I fully agree that cutting back universities should be based upon subject and yes there are some ******* stupid subjects out there, yet in all fairness a lot of them haven't been targetted by these cuts.

Yes, universities who charge more have to offer more support but they are still losing more money then they are gaining. So that's unfair on the institutions.

[Conservative,]

It's the fact you used the word poor, not that you called her poor.

I like being called less able, not disabled. I've learned to live with it. That's just political correctness gone crazy imo.

And yes Oli I see where you're coming from now...sort of.


If I were able to, I'd cut out any ridiculous subjects and only have credible subjects eg;

Maths
Sciences
Computing
English
Languages
The arts (Drama, Music ect.)
And various others that may be required in a working environment (eg; economics).

Then put a cap on the number of students.

Then give grants to highly graded students.

Then............raise the fees. If it's still needed. I can see why people think it's wrong. Again I don't personally see it necessary to whine when the government won't do anything but I can see where you're coming from more clearly now. I just think you're protesting for the wrong reasons.

If people said "money is being spent on the wrong things". I agree. "Money is wasted on pointless courses". I agree. "Grants should be given to the more able students, not the less privileged" I agree. But people protesting solely due to the price going up without giving a reason is not what I agree with.

[Chippiewill]

I like being called less able, not disabled. I've learned to live with it. That's just political correctness gone crazy imo.


Poor is what you say when you believe you are better than someone. Underprivileged is what you say when you understand the situation they are in.

[Conservative,]

Poor is what you say when you believe you are better than someone. Underprivileged is what you say when you understand the situation they are in.

Who said I thought I'm better than her? Poor is the first word that comes into my mind when I'm talking of someone who is less lucky than me, underprivileged to me sounds like a snootier way of saying poor.

[Inseriousity.]

Poor is what you say when you believe you are better than someone. Underprivileged is what you say when you understand the situation they are in.

Then he might as well say poor cos he doesn't have a clue.

[Chippiewill]

Who said I thought I'm better than her? Poor is the first word that comes into my mind when I'm talking of someone who is less lucky than me, underprivileged to me sounds like a snootier way of saying poor.
Poor sounds to me like you think of the underprivileged as 'scum' and the way you have behaved in this thread certainly indicates so.


when I'm talking of someone who is less lucky than me
So:

a) Anyone with less wealth than you is technically 'less lucky' than you?
b) Luck has nothing to do with it.


Then he might as well say poor cos he doesn't have a clue.
Alas, this is true, perhaps I should give up?

[Conservative,]

Poor sounds to me like you think of the underprivileged as 'scum' and the way you have behaved in this thread certainly indicates so.


So:

a) Anyone with less wealth than you is technically 'less lucky' than you?
b) Luck has nothing to do with it.


Alas, this is true, perhaps I should give up?

Lucky as in I am lucky to have what I have?

I never said underprivileged was scum. I think people who complain about University fees without a reason (and I've given reasons I WOULD protest about in a few posts above...) are silly and especially if they feel they can't afford it - mainly because most of the people in the position will get grants.

And I may not have much of an idea how "underprivileged" people live, but then they don't know how disabled people live. So really, it may not seem like a direct link but it's similar in the fact that "underprivileged" and "less able" are similar and "poor" and "disabled" are similar.

Excuse me if I happened to use a term that I felt appropriate when describing no one in particulars financial situation?

[Chippiewill]

And I may not have much of an idea how "underprivileged" people live, but then they don't know how disabled people live. So really, it may not seem like a direct link but it's similar in the fact that "underprivileged" and "less able" are similar and "poor" and "disabled" are similar.

Actually the comparison is "underprivileged"/"disabled" and "poor"/"lame"


Excuse me if I happened to use a term that I felt appropriate when describing no one in particulars financial situation
Except that you were describing Shar's financial situation? You were at least implying it in the way you had worded that paragraph.

[Conservative,]

Actually the comparison is "underprivileged"/"disabled" and "poor"/"lame"


Except that you were describing Shar's financial situation? You were at least implying it in the way you had worded that paragraph.

I quoted her because I was replying to what she said. I said "IF you are poorer". I IF being a subjective word...only used if the person were to be in that situation, and "you" ok that may have implied her, but it was aimed generally at anyone reading.

[Chippiewill]

I quoted her because I was replying to what she said. I said "IF you are poorer". I IF being a subjective word...only used if the person were to be in that situation, and "you" ok that may have implied her, but it was aimed generally at anyone reading.
Any person would infer that you meant Shar.

[Conservative,]

I meant anyone who it is related to. Not necessarily Shar.

[FlyingJesus]

Everybody has the right to go to University

Absolutely - if you can afford it


Poor is what you say when you believe you are better than someone. Underprivileged is what you say when you understand the situation they are in.

Would you like to talk some more nonsense? I don't believe you're actually able to tell people what they mean when they say a certain word, and underprivileged is a far worse way of saying poor, it's a term I'd associate with the 3rd world and such. Also:


So:

a) Anyone with less wealth than you is technically 'less lucky' than you?
b) Luck has nothing to do with it.

In what way is "less lucky" a phrase you can have a go at him for when you're saying "underprivileged" which is exactly the same? And regardless, luck has everything to do with it as I don't recall being able to choose whether I was born into a rich or poor family


Any person would infer that you meant Shar.

That's not the case at all, anyone with a mind for debating will quite easily work out that points made in such discussions are not personal unless clearly stated as such. So just to make it easy, this following question is directed for you, Chippiewill: if David Cameron goes on TV and is asked about the rising costs of education by the reporting journalist and he says "if you are a poorer (I MEAN UNDERPRIVILEGED OMG) student you will receive financial aid" would you then assume he was talking directly to the reporter about his personal situation? Or would you assume that he meant it as a general statement to all whom might be affected?

[HotelUser]

If your a poorer student then you'll get help with paying for it. Alternatively take a apprenticeship? The whole "OMG I NEED TO GO TO UNI OR I'LL FAIL IN LIFE" irks me. You don't have to - I simply want to due to the nature of career I wish to go on to.


If you look at-- well, any established countries career statistics you will find that unless you are Bill Gates you're likely going to make more money in your future career if you've attended university. This results in an uberhigher chance of not failing in life.



I may be in a more privileged position than some, but if that's the case then I should be the one moaning/complaining or as you say "exercising our opinion". The hardest hit will be middle class citizens such as myself. The working class and poorer students will get huge pay packages to help with the money and the rich can just pay it off. But my family won't get any help because my father makes enough money. The only help I'm getting is from my deceased Grandfather who has set up a fund to help pay for University.


These changes will not cause you to sleep in the same room as your parents every night. Your parents will still be able to afford all your subjective goodies like your too fast internet, new computer, xbox, tv, cable, two vehicles, larger house. What irks me is YOU are so afraid of being left worse off, when even WITH the government help other people get they're still worse off then you. You have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to complain about. You will still be able to go on your jolly way to University regardless of whether or not a small small fraction of tax payers money (which for the record neither you or I actually pay for it's our parents) goes toward helping people who GENUINELY should be worried about not affording University.

It's not Shar's or whoever else's fault as a student that they can't afford to go to University. What have you as an individual done any better than Shar to deserve to go to University more? Nothing. So you should both have the equal opportunity to better your lives through University. I don't care if she has no parents living under the sea and that your parents could be two mighty and rich Doctors. That's still your parents money. Nothing at all to do with you.




So you are, as you said, perfectly entitled to your opinion. But I'm entitled to thinking it's complaining.

Yes you are, and I am entitled to mine. An entirely socialist government would be horrible. However SLIGHT socialist tendencies, such as free Health Care and free Education, crown corporations like one unified post company, or as you have in the UK, a tax payer funded media station (BBC) are GOOD THINGS. They're about making life FAIR for everyone. There shouldn't be an iron curtain separating the super rich and the super poor like many countries see; where the poor have no opportunities. What's great about where we are blessed to live is even if you have nothing, you can build a life for yourself because there's thriving opportunity. Do you yourself realize how your parent's tax money could be spent a lot worse than helping young girls and boys pay for education? I'm extremely proud about tax payers money being spent towards things which will help other people.

[Chippiewill]

Absolutely - if you can afford it

Are you saying that someone only has the right if they can afford it?



Would you like to talk some more nonsense? I don't believe you're actually able to tell people what they mean when they say a certain word, and underprivileged is a far worse way of saying poor, it's a term I'd associate with the 3rd world and such. Also:

Ideally yes, financially disadvantaged is the correct term, however underprivileged is the term which Shar used herself.



In what way is "less lucky" a phrase you can have a go at him for when you're saying "underprivileged" which is exactly the same? And regardless, luck has everything to do with it as I don't recall being able to choose whether I was born into a rich or poor family

That like saying ******ed is the same as developmentally challenged? To whom you are born is still predetermined by the movement of particles.



That's not the case at all, anyone with a mind for debating will quite easily work out that points made in such discussions are not personal unless clearly stated as such. So just to make it easy, this following question is directed for you, Chippiewill: if David Cameron goes on TV and is asked about the rising costs of education by the reporting journalist and he says "if you are a poorer (I MEAN UNDERPRIVILEGED OMG) student you will receive financial aid" would you then assume he was talking directly to the reporter about his personal situation? Or would you assume that he meant it as a general statement to all whom might be affected?
That's because a television broadcast is not a threaded discussion?

[Soy]

YES HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA


AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA


HAAHHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAA

HA

[FlyingJesus]

Are you saying that someone only has the right if they can afford it?

No, I was mocking the fact that it's seen as a right at all. We have free education of a pretty good standard right up to the age of 18, an age at which a large amount of laws concerning our liberties and such are changed, so suggesting that we all ought to be able to stay in education beyond 18 for free seems entirely counterproductive to the country as a whole - I know I for one would never leave uni if this were the case


That like saying ******ed is the same as developmentally challenged? To whom you are born is still predetermined by the movement of particles.

Then it's a lucky movement of particles if you're wanting to go down that route, we still aren't choosing it ourselves. Not sure what you're aiming at with the first part either, I'm pretty sure unlucky has never been an offensive term


That's because a television broadcast is not a threaded discussion?

And a duck isn't a goose, what's your point?

[Soy]

Are you saying that someone only has the right if they can afford it?


Ideally yes, financially disadvantaged is the correct term, however underprivileged is the term which Shar used herself.


That like saying ******ed is the same as developmentally challenged? To whom you are born is still predetermined by the movement of particles.


That's because a television broadcast is not a threaded discussion?

go say that to the government

smash windows etc this is a habbo forum lol

[luce]

my mum asked me if i wanted to go to a welsh university before telling me this LOL i was like i'm going to a university to get a good degree and i don't rate any uni in Wales for law. Anyway in theory i will be able to pay of my debts with my wages after a few years anyway if it goes ok.

[Chippiewill]

No, I was mocking the fact that it's seen as a right at all. We have free education of a pretty good standard right up to the age of 18, an age at which a large amount of laws concerning our liberties and such are changed, so suggesting that we all ought to be able to stay in education beyond 18 for free seems entirely counterproductive to the country as a whole - I know I for one would never leave uni if this were the case

So you're saying that those who deserve to go to university are those who can afford it and not those who get good grades and would benefit this country to a greater degree?



Then it's a lucky movement of particles if you're wanting to go down that route, we still aren't choosing it ourselves. Not sure what you're aiming at with the first part either, I'm pretty sure unlucky has never been an offensive term

I was frozen today! (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=676608&p=6861135#post6861135)



And a duck isn't a goose, what's your point?
Generally in a threaded conversation it's a reply to the statement, in an interview your reply can be directed at anyone.

[FlyingJesus]

All this time here I was thinking that forums were meant to get lots of people together for wide discussion rather than 1-on-1s, silly me...

And no, I don't think richer people deserve uni more or I'd have said that

[Conservative,]

So you're saying that those who deserve to go to university are those who can afford it and not those who get good grades and would benefit this country to a greater degree?


I was frozen today! (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=676608&p=6861135#post6861135)


Generally in a threaded conversation it's a reply to the statement, in an interview your reply can be directed at anyone.

Generally you can't read minds so who are you to say what other people mean? I meant it as a general statement...I didn't aim it at Shar or I would've said that.

And although you're quoting FJ I'll reply to the richer deserve Uni statement.

No they don't - those who get the best grades to. In my honest opinion, I think tuition fees should not exist for those with A*A*A* (or better) but those with not so good grades should have to pay. Get rid of pointless degrees and then everyone will be happy - the Uni's will be less crowded, there will be money to spend on subsidising tuition fees and those who are poorer but talented would get free/cheaper Uni.

However I do not think protesting and kicking up a fuss is the right way to go about it. I was talking to my Uncle (who has 4 kids, 22, 19, 17 & 15) and he lives in the states. It's $50k PER YEAR. As I said, in other threads and this one...if you want to taste "unfair" rises go to America.

[Catzsy]

Where do you think the money for the Welsh Assembly comes from?

England of course.


That's the entire point, if they can use the Governments money to subsidise Welsh Students then it is unfair for English students not to recieve the same treatment.

However, I think this is an important event in the suggested tuition fee rises as I am now starting to doubt whether it will get through parliament at all, there seems to be quite a lot of opposition so I think this may be the first major time the coalition gets itself into a bit of a situation.

Let's be clear the money for the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly comes from the UK Government and UK Tax payers. They can spend the money given to them as they wish as far as education and health is concerned. They have chosen it not to raise tuition fees BUT the waiting lists for hospital appointments and operations is months and months longer than than in England so it comes down to priorities of the devolved bodies.
I find the remarks quite nationalistic and I feel it would be better to continue the fight against tuition fees in England rather than complaining about the the devolved areas of the UK as it seems that for some people they have made the right choice but tell that to the army of people waiting for operations. :P

[HotelUser]

Generally you can't read minds so who are you to say what other people mean? I meant it as a general statement...I didn't aim it at Shar or I would've said that.

And although you're quoting FJ I'll reply to the richer deserve Uni statement.

No they don't - those who get the best grades to. In my honest opinion, I think tuition fees should not exist for those with A*A*A* (or better) but those with not so good grades should have to pay. Get rid of pointless degrees and then everyone will be happy - the Uni's will be less crowded, there will be money to spend on subsidising tuition fees and those who are poorer but talented would get free/cheaper Uni.

However I do not think protesting and kicking up a fuss is the right way to go about it. I was talking to my Uncle (who has 4 kids, 22, 19, 17 & 15) and he lives in the states. It's $50k PER YEAR. As I said, in other threads and this one...if you want to taste "unfair" rises go to America.

Stop saying it's more expensive over here - it's not!

http://www.dal.ca/admissions/money_matters/tuition_fees_costs/fee_calculator.html

[hairpins]

CAMERON OUT GAGA IN X

tbh tho eye dunt think itz rly gud for the welsh pplz coz pple shudnt have 2 pay £9000 a year to go to uni den be charged credit card intrest on it when they leeve :S itz lyke wot the bobba srsly

[Chippiewill]

Stop saying it's more expensive over here - it's not!

http://www.dal.ca/admissions/money_matters/tuition_fees_costs/fee_calculator.html

That's Canada though, not America.

[alexxxxx]

Stop saying it's more expensive over here - it's not!

http://www.dal.ca/admissions/money_matters/tuition_fees_costs/fee_calculator.html

$CA15000 a year for engineering... and it's a 5 year course! and i do not spend $CA8000 on my accommodation here in the UK. Seems pricey to me. When I pay £3k/yr and £3.5k/yr on housing.

[Conservative,]

Stop saying it's more expensive over here - it's not!

http://www.dal.ca/admissions/money_matters/tuition_fees_costs/fee_calculator.html


That's Canada though, not America.
Ditto that. I said America, not Canada. My uncle has 4 children (as I said) 1 is currently at Uni and another is thinking of going...he's forking out $50k a year for tuition fees but luckily his son chose to go to a local Uni so he stays at home and doesn't have to pay for housing ect.

CAMERON OUT GAGA IN X

tbh tho eye dunt think itz rly gud for the welsh pplz coz pple shudnt have 2 pay £9000 a year to go to uni den be charged credit card intrest on it when they leeve :S itz lyke wot the bobba srsly

*REMOVED*. However they're not charged interest, and if they don't earn £21k they don't have to pay it back. Sorted.

and as Catzsy said - it's the priorities. The Welsh & Scots have decided to prioritise Education over health service. We've prioritised Health over education. (Although in 1997 I do believe Tony Blair's speech was: "Education, Education, Education".)

Edited by HotelUser (Forum Super Moderator): Please don't be rude to other forum members, thanks.

[Chippiewill]

Ditto that. I said America, not Canada. My uncle has 4 children (as I said) 1 is currently at Uni and another is thinking of going...he's forking out $50k a year for tuition fees but luckily his son chose to go to a local Uni so he stays at home and doesn't have to pay for housing ect.

I would like to point out that Americans pay less taxes and their services for other things are better. Furthermore, comparing something to another country in a worse position does not mean that we cannot complain about it, that's like saying I cannot complain about the economy because Greece's economy collapsed. Your point serves no purpose. If we do not ask for what we want then what would we end up with in the end?

[Conservative,]

I would like to point out that Americans pay less taxes and their services for other things are better. Furthermore, comparing something to another country in a worse position does not mean that we cannot complain about it, that's like saying I cannot complain about the economy because Greece's economy collapsed. Your point serves no purpose. If we do not ask for what we want then what would we end up with in the end?

Get what you're given and be grateful.

[Chippiewill]

Get what you're given and be grateful.

What you really said:


NANANANANA, NOT LISTENING

[FlyingJesus]

Get what you're given and be grateful.

Well that was silly, now this can be quoted to you whenever you complain about anything ever

[Conservative,]

Well that was silly, now this can be quoted to you whenever you complain about anything ever

Meh. My mum says that to me all the time lol. But in this case it fits well.

[AgnesIO]

I wish the British government would see some ******* sense and not raise the fees. Some people don't realise they 20+k of debt is NOT that easy to get out of.

I am hoping to do the "Bachelor of Laws (Honours)" course - and even though my family has money, university - if fees rise - will be a big strain.

Can't believe I would EVER say this, but can I be welsh? :P

[Chippiewill]

Meh. My mum says that to me all the time lol. But in this case it fits well.

Under your argument no one could ever complain, if no one every complained then something that is broken or wrong would not and could not be fixed. You have used your phrase as a cop out as you realise that your argument is ever diminishing. In fact, the response you gave completely ignored everything which I had stated which was addressing an identical statement to the one you delivered afterwards, and you say that I'M the one ignoring the point. Sir - I had already addressed the point.

[Conservative,]

It's not a cop out. And in this case "get what you're given and be grateful" is very applicable..but it's not in all cases I admit. People need to actually just be quiet and get on with their lives, or if they don't like it, do something proper about it, not go around smashing windows. It's not a big increase, and the Welsh assembly have decided to spend their money on this. Personally I'd rather have good health care than cheaper Universities.

[Catzsy]

It's not a cop out. And in this case "get what you're given and be grateful" is very applicable..but it's not in all cases I admit. People need to actually just be quiet and get on with their lives, or if they don't like it, do something proper about it, not go around smashing windows. It's not a big increase, and the Welsh assembly have decided to spend their money on this. Personally I'd rather have good health care than cheaper Universities.

It is a huge increase. Double for most people and some will pay 9k a year. That is a debt of 27k in tuition fees before paying for rent, food , books etc etc. It is desperately unfair and collecting tax from people who avoid it at all costs would be a lot fairer - there is a huge sum not paid every year. Also the vast majority of students were law abiding. If you watched the footage of the smashed windows the people doing it were wearing black and balaclavas - the uniform for the fascists and anti capitalists who had infiltrated the rally. The trouble is the media fail to point this out and play on the negative.

[Chippiewill]

It's not a cop out. And in this case "get what you're given and be grateful" is very applicable..but it's not in all cases I admit. People need to actually just be quiet and get on with their lives, or if they don't like it, do something proper about it, not go around smashing windows. It's not a big increase, and the Welsh assembly have decided to spend their money on this. Personally I'd rather have good health care than cheaper Universities.

You could say that about ANY complaint, your argument is flawed - everything is relative and as far as I'm concerned, relative is how it is; for US, for NOW. You say it's not a big increase but for some it is, I'm sure it's very easy to say that cosied up in your Mansion eh? Naturally you'd prefer the health care because for university, you're sorted - some, not so lucky.

[Conservative,]

You could say that about ANY complaint, your argument is flawed - everything is relative and as far as I'm concerned, relative is how it is; for US, for NOW. You say it's not a big increase but for some it is, I'm sure it's very easy to say that cosied up in your Mansion eh? Naturally you'd prefer the health care because for university, you're sorted - some, not so lucky.

I'm not sorted for University? lol. I'm going to be paying the debts like everyone else. I just think compared to around the world people are complaining about nothing. It's £9k a year? So what. Want to pay £50k a year? No didn't think so. It's like someone saying "I'm starving" and complaining they haven't had anything to eat for a few hours, but people in 3rd world countries haven't had anything to eat for days and they're not complaining. It's the simple fact we've got used to our cushy everyone gets everything for free and if we don't we make a fuss. We need to get out of that it's no good to anyone.

[Catzsy]

I'm not sorted for University? lol. I'm going to be paying the debts like everyone else. I just think compared to around the world people are complaining about nothing. It's £9k a year? So what. Want to pay £50k a year? No didn't think so. It's like someone saying "I'm starving" and complaining they haven't had anything to eat for a few hours, but people in 3rd world countries haven't had anything to eat for days and they're not complaining. It's the simple fact we've got used to our cushy everyone gets everything for free and if we don't we make a fuss. We need to get out of that it's no good to anyone.

No reply to my post. :P There is a great deal of difference between having it cushy and being expected to pay this amount. It is estimated that tax evasion costs this country 70 billion a year and put that against benefit fraud of 1billion a year it certainly puts that into perspective.
Link:
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2010/03/11/tax-justice-and-jobs-the-business-case-for-investing-in-staff-at-hm-revenue-customs/

Why don't they try sorting that out as opposed to hammering the students with such draconian increases?

[Conservative,]

No reply to my post. :P There is a great deal of difference between having it cushy and being expected to pay this amount. It is estimated that tax evasion costs this country 70 billion a year and put that against benefit fraud of 1billion a year it certainly puts that into perspective.
Link:
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2010/03/11/tax-justice-and-jobs-the-business-case-for-investing-in-staff-at-hm-revenue-customs/

Why don't they try sorting that out as opposed to hammering the students with such draconian increases?

I agree we should try and sort that out but people never offer these solutions to begin with. They just go "sgslghjshgng £9k a year?!?!?! Has the PM gone insane? agfasdhfasg it's so much im gunna die lets smash up some windows and walk out of school". THEN they come up with the ideas. Maybe it should be the other way round and things might get done.

[Chippiewill]

I'm not sorted for University? lol. I'm going to be paying the debts like everyone else. I just think compared to around the world people are complaining about nothing. It's £9k a year? So what. Want to pay £50k a year? No didn't think so. It's like someone saying "I'm starving" and complaining they haven't had anything to eat for a few hours, but people in 3rd world countries haven't had anything to eat for days and they're not complaining. It's the simple fact we've got used to our cushy everyone gets everything for free and if we don't we make a fuss. We need to get out of that it's no good to anyone.

Everything is relative:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_relativity

Therefore everything thing should be compared on a basis of what is around us. What is around me is what I base everything against, so moderately affordable university fees is what I have now (Relatively) and barely affordable university fees is what I shall have (Relatively).

Also by 'sorted' I meant that you'll actually be able to make it through university.

Here are a few sample things which also explain why you're wrong:

Complaint (Example only): "The moderators on this forum suck"
You could say: "get what you're given and be grateful"

Complaint (Example only): "I don't like fruit"
You could say: "get what you're given and be grateful"

Complaint (Example only): "It is an outrage that university fees are increasing"
You could say: "get what you're given and be grateful"

Complaint (Example only): "Justin Bieber haters should die"
You could say: "get what you're given and be grateful"

Complaint (Example only): "This TV broke, garrgh!"
You could say: "get what you're given and be grateful"

Complaint (Example only): "I don't like this food"
You could say: "get what you're given and be grateful"

If people never complained then nothing that is broken or wrong could be fixed. If you can address this statement with a sensical argument then FINE, however, so far you have lacked the ability to. Your statement serves no purpose and I have plainly stated why it is so.

[Inseriousity.]

I agree we should try and sort that out but people never offer these solutions to begin with. They just go "sgslghjshgng £9k a year?!?!?! Has the PM gone insane? agfasdhfasg it's so much im gunna die lets smash up some windows and walk out of school". THEN they come up with the ideas. Maybe it should be the other way round and things might get done.

LOL! No it's the ideas that come first then those ideas are abused by the minority of people who aren't really that bothered about the ideas but want to have some "fun" causing a riot, abusing police and all in the name of 'freedom of speech'. I agree with freedom of speech but it's going to be open to abuse, a bit like everything in life really.

Unfortunately Chippie and Rosie, every argument you post here is going to get a 'Try living in America' or 'Doesn't mean you have to smash windows!'.

[AgnesIO]

I'm not sorted for University? lol. I'm going to be paying the debts like everyone else. I just think compared to around the world people are complaining about nothing. It's £9k a year? So what. Want to pay £50k a year? No didn't think so. It's like someone saying "I'm starving" and complaining they haven't had anything to eat for a few hours, but people in 3rd world countries haven't had anything to eat for days and they're not complaining. It's the simple fact we've got used to our cushy everyone gets everything for free and if we don't we make a fuss. We need to get out of that it's no good to anyone.

9k a year in such a developed country that does not NEED to charge so much is ludicrous.

[Ajthedragon]

What the hell are you talking about?

If English fees go up, and Welsh fees stay same, where do you think English students will go to? And which students will be affected due to that?

English students must pay full price.

[Chippiewill]

English students must pay full price.

-sigh-

It's lovely when people do not read a thread properly.
Just, cannot, win..

[Wig44.]

It's not a cop out. And in this case "get what you're given and be grateful" is very applicable..but it's not in all cases I admit. People need to actually just be quiet and get on with their lives, or if they don't like it, do something proper about it, not go around smashing windows. It's not a big increase, and the Welsh assembly have decided to spend their money on this. Personally I'd rather have good health care than cheaper Universities.

Yes, we should just be a lovely, un-questioning, obedient little workforce that doesn't speak out against anything that seriously affects us and continually allow the government to squeeze us. You know, there's a word for that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism).

Not all of us were born with a silver spoon stuck up our arses and as such will have to carry the burden of debt for quite some time. Add to that the fact that getting work after graduating is not easy and the future looks bleak. Your argument that 'the USA has it worse' is invalid. It doesn't make what is happening to the English people any more fair. Tell me, if someone robs two neighbours, taking £5000 from one and £10000 from the other, does this mean that the person who lost £5000 should 'deal with it'? Of course not. We have every right and perfect reason to complain about this unnecessary change, especially when it doesn't affect the Welsh and the Scottish get a free ride. While you may be the kind of person who is willing to be bullied into paying more you are in a shrinking minority.

I'd like to point out to chippiewill, shar and whoever is is stupid enough to take offence at the word 'poor' that you are way too sensitive. Admittedly, I can think of circumstances where poor can be used as an insult but that has not happened in this thread, nor has anyone actually been called poor..

[-:Undertaker:-]

UKIP can't be in power for the next election, so there's no point voting for them expecting them to change this. Labour is the only one which may play a part in preventing this, therefore voting for them is strategic.

When voting, the whole point of voting is to vote for what you believe in - rather than voting for the expected winner. See now, your second part is exactly what i'm on about and why we keep getting treated like dirt by successive governments; you all sit here and complain, I provide examples on how the offical 'opposition' are just as bad and have a track record in telling lies yet you are still prepared to vote for them.

If you voted for Lib/Lab/Con then you voted for it, will you continue voting for it? that's the question.


9k a year in such a developed country that does not NEED to charge so much is ludicrous.

I would agree in a way, although I think we are looking at this the wrong way; right now everybody expects to be sucking at the teet of the state for almost everything, and its our own money - we are the ones funding this ourselves. The obvious solution is a much smaller government which, rather than taking money in taxes in the first place - you keep your money in your own bank account rather than having it taxed from you by the government, and then government wins votes from you when it gives you 'free' this, 'free that'.