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View Full Version : The eurozone is in bad need of an undertaker



-:Undertaker:-
12-12-2010, 11:45 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8197780/The-eurozone-is-in-bad-need-of-an-undertaker.html


The eurozone is in bad need of an undertaker



The EU’s Franco-German "Directoire" and the European Central Bank have between them ruled out all plausible solutions to the eurozone’s debt crisis.



http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01762/Merkel_1762657c.jpg
Even if Angela Merkel, were to agree plans that amounted to a European debt union, the scheme would still be torn to pieces by the German constitutional court



There will be no Eurobond, no increases in the EU’s €440bn (£368bn) rescue fund, and no mass purchases of Spanish and Italian bonds by the ECB. Nothing. The system is politically and constitutionally paralysed. Spain and Portugal will be left nakedly exposed before their funding crunch in January. It is entirely predictable that Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy would move so quickly to shoot down last week’s Eurobond proposal, issuing pre-emptive warning before this week’s EU summit that they will not accept “a bundling together of all Europe’s debts”. How can Germany or France agree lightly to plans that amount to an EU debt union, with a common treasury, tax system, and budget policy, the stuff of civil wars and revolutions over the ages? To do so is to dismantle the ancient nation states of Europe in all but name.

Even if Chancellor Merkel wished to take this course – and even if the Bundestag approved it – the scheme would still be torn to pieces by the German constitutional court unless legitimised by radical EU treaty changes, which would in turn take years, require referenda, and face populist revolt in half Europe. What the German people are being asked to do is to surrender fiscal sovereignty and pay open-ended transfers to Southern Europe, taking on a burden up to six times reunification with East Germany. “If we pool the debts of the countries in the south-west periphery of Europe, we are blighting our children’s future: the debt levels are astronomic,” said Hans-Werner Sinn, head of Germany IFO institute.

Any attempt to prop up the status quo will cement the current account imbalances of EMU’s North and South, to the detriment of both sides. “I doubt that the current leaders of Europe fully understand the economic implications of their decisions. They are repeating the mistakes that Germany made over reunification,” he told the Handelsblatt. Transfers to the East are still running at €60bn a year two decades after the fall of the Berlin Wall. There has been no meaningful East-West convergence for the last 15 years. To those who blithely argue that EMU is a good racket for German exporters because it locks in Germany’s competitive advantage, he retorts that a trade surplus is the flip side of a capital deficit. Germany has seen €1 trillion – or two thirds of its entire savings since 2002 – leak out to fund the EMU party, gutting investment at home. This is toxic for Germany too.

It is no surprise to eurosceptics that Europe should have reached this fateful point where leaders must choose between the twin traumas of EMU break-up or giving up their countries. Nor is it a surprise to an inner-core of schemers within the EU system, who have always calculated that they could exploit such a crisis to catalyse political union.

Well there we have it, game over it does appear - and sooner than we'd ever thought possible. The EU elite will try everything to hold their European Superstate together, but ultimtely that would now require the immediate creation of a centralised federal European Superstate in public view which is something that they've been trying to avoid since the end of the second world war.

All we need now is for Portugal and Spain to go under (not to mention Belgium and Italy) and it will be the end of this undemocratic monster which has caused nothing but misery for the people of Europe especially those in the poorer countries who saw prices surge when their national currencies were swapped for the monopoly currency that is the Euro. I say that though, but the German people also lost out - they were never even consulted on the topic.

Although sensible as ever, the Germans never destroyed their old currency the Deutschmark - it sits right now in vaults across Germany, just waiting for the order to replace the failed Euro. I remember the fools who launched the 'Britain join the Euro campaign' though (see below); how wrong they have been proven.


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2010/11/article-1221005-0020968D00000258-598_468x286.jpg
Euro supporters: Michael Heseltine, Tony Blair and Kenneth Clarke


Of course these dangerous people still believe in joining the Euro;



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bVYN3L0iFs



So the question is, what do you think; should Britain ever contemplate joining the Euro?

Dean
12-12-2010, 11:58 PM
Nice title btw, very good with the play-on-words, but I dunno, some part of me wants the euro just for the idea of having it, but I guess what you're saying is quite true, we are better off with the pound and we're probably better off getting out of EU, but for some reason I don't think that'll be happening any time soon :P

Caution
13-12-2010, 12:36 AM
No, it's far too unstable, as it's obviously been proven, and I just wonder when the whole thing will eventually end. They just seem to be clinging onto it now. I wasn't aware that the Germans had kept the Deutschmark though.

GommeInc
13-12-2010, 12:45 AM
The Euro is unstable, that's a fact. The UK should never and will never swap the powerful Pound for useless Euro. What all the EU states should do is just leave it, it went too far having one economy, when the EU was more powerful as a trade agreement. Europe has always been seperated, it's amazing they never realised this, seeing as the past is ridden with stories of European countries going to war or wanting independence.

xxMATTGxx
13-12-2010, 07:44 AM
I don't think we really want to end up like the other countries who have the Euro and need bailouts from the EU. It seems the Euro is crap and well good job we are still with the GBP to be honest. I voted no!

Ajthedragon
13-12-2010, 08:31 AM
What would have been the point of winning WW2 if Europe had only one currency. Hitler may as well of won.

Jamesy
13-12-2010, 10:47 AM
What would have been the point of winning WW2 if Europe had only one currency. Hitler may as well of won.

I don't quite think you can compare the holocaust and the other atrocities comitted by the Nazis to a single currency :P.

Ajthedragon
13-12-2010, 04:24 PM
Chances are if Nazi's had won they would have become less barbaric over time. :P

On-topic, yeah it was an awful example. ;) BUT, point is I think our currency should remain British.

---------- Post added 13-12-2010 at 04:24 PM ----------

Chances are if Nazi's had won they would have become less barbaric over time. :P

On-topic, yeah it was an awful example. ;) BUT, point is I think our currency should remain British.

---------- Post added 13-12-2010 at 04:26 PM ----------

Chances are if Nazi's had won they would have become less barbaric over time. :P

On-topic, yeah it was an awful example. ;) BUT, point is I think our currency should remain British.

Eoin247
13-12-2010, 04:50 PM
Lol undertaker i bet you waited for ages for the right moment to get your username in a current affirs thread title.:)

Some things in the EU i agree are out of order. However there are many things the EU has achieved over the years which should be kept. For example free trade, better relationships, poorer european countries having been brought up to much better standards etc.

Maybe a watered down EU is the right way to go.

Caution
13-12-2010, 05:01 PM
Lol undertaker i bet you waited for ages for the right moment to get your username in a current affirs thread title.:)

Some things in the EU i agree are out of order. However there are many things the EU has achieved over the years which should be kept. For example free trade, better relationships, poorer european countries having been brought up to much better standards etc.

Maybe a watered down EU is the right way to go.

They haven't achieved anything. Countries may bring up their standards, but in turn, ours fall.

Eoin247
13-12-2010, 05:25 PM
They haven't achieved anything. Countries may bring up their standards, but in turn, ours fall.

So you are saying standards of living in EU countries haven't improved since the origins of the EU after world war 2?

AgnesIO
13-12-2010, 05:53 PM
The last thing I want is for Spain to go under, and I would prefer it if you didn't hope for that

Christian
13-12-2010, 06:29 PM
I think people are forgeting that Ireland didn't go under due to it being a member of the Euro but due to following a poor fiscal policy which I dare say the Tories seem to be very keen that use a similar one to what they used.

Don't forget without us being a member of the EU we would not be able to trade easily with Europe as we would have to pay more taxes on the goods we export therefore decreasing UK's competativeness with the markets. We are heavily dependant on the EU. Also I don't think we can forget that if we were to join the Euro we would not have to worry about exchange rates nor would investors which could heavily increase the amount of trade we are able to do and investment in this country.

I believe we should consider the Euro however I do not think it is viable proven by Black Wednesday.

GommeInc
13-12-2010, 07:34 PM
They haven't achieved anything. Countries may bring up their standards, but in turn, ours fall.
The trade policies were a good idea, but I guess you could argue they don't need to be under the name of a wasteful organisation. It's the only thing the EU (or ECC I think it was called before) was good for. The ECHR (European Court of Human Rights) is half good, half bad, some of the cases put towards it are sensible, but some completely overwrite the jurisdiction of the individual countries who have locked away someone with good reason e.g. Yorkshire Ripper.


I think people are forgeting that Ireland didn't go under due to it being a member of the Euro but due to following a poor fiscal policy which I dare say the Tories seem to be very keen that use a similar one to what they used.
The EU will always have countries that need bailing out. The money has to come from and that money has to come from other EU countries/the EU itself. Having to bail yourself out under false pretenses sets a terrible precedent.

Also, the trade agreements are fixed itno the Eurozone. If the trade agreements were jsut agreements, then it'll be fine, but to have to join the Euro seems to be nothing more but bullying and unneeded pressure, when before the "Euro", trade agreements already existed, and were fair - the individual countries didn't have to pay extra to important/export.

Joining the Euro means if another country mucks up, we'd pay the price for it for no reason at all. It's like filling a paper bag with water and seeing holes form, and attempting to plug the holes with cellotape, it'll cause more problems in the future and would never be prevented. Switzerland and Norway have been good without the EU, and the UK has been "decent enough" without the Euro

Swastika
13-12-2010, 09:40 PM
UKIP have a good argument for this matter, they simply win hands down.
We should once again retain our former glory of being "Great" Britain (at the moment we're not), withdraw from the European Union and their moronic plans of a European Superstate and keep our own currency too.
Our country would be so much better off if we re-gained independence and left the EU.

GommeInc
14-12-2010, 01:50 PM
UKIP have a good argument for this matter, they simply win hands down.
We should once again retain our former glory of being "Great" Britain (at the moment we're not), withdraw from the European Union and their moronic plans of a European Superstate and keep our own currency too.
Our country would be so much better off if we re-gained independence and left the EU.
Surely you mean "Any country"? :P The Netherlands, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and many others would benefit from dumping the EU. However, in saying that, I think a trade commission which makes fairer trade within Europe should remain, it benefits European countries seeing as many food products come from European countries - Spain = fruit, Netherlands = pork etc. I remember going to France when they had the Franc, and I swear the prices in France were reasonable and quite cheap.

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