I need help

[blackops121]

Its hard for me to do this, but I know I need help, I don't know how else I can get it without feeling uncomfortable, and I know there is people here that are good at helping people through things.

I've contemplated suicide a number of times, but knew I wouldn't really be able to bring myself to it, but I now feel like I could, and i'm thinking its my only option.
Lifes going horrible for me right now, and has been for a while, I just feel isolated and like there is no point in me living.

What should I do? I feel like I should just end it.

[Catzsy]

I am so sorry to here that. Can you speak to your parents, close friend or doctor about it?
If not why not give the Samaritans a call?
Link: http://www.samaritans.org/?gclid=COuG8v7cnqYCFRgz3godmzH9oQ
Hey I hope you will as it does seem that you need to speak to somebody. :)

[blackops121]

Thank you for replying, I've tried talking to one or two close friends, but they didn't help much at all.
I think i'll call the Samaritans or more likely email them.

[Catzsy]

Thank you for replying, I've tried talking to one or two close friends, but they didn't help much at all.
I think i'll call the Samaritans or more likely email them.

Well that sounds like a good idea to me. Don't hesitate to post again though if you feel you need to.

[blackops121]

I've still not recieved a reply?

[smiffy70]

soz to hear about this bud :(

you could awlays try lifeline?

[ben]

May be they take longer then 30 minutes

[Shar]

I've still not recieved a reply?

Have you tired calling? I'm sure many services like these are available 24/7. :)
If you go to your GP about it they usually refer you to a counselor who you can talk to confidentially about things. Some people find it helpful, I myself did.

[Chris]

I've still not recieved a reply?

It could take 24-48 hours until they reply. In the mean time I would recommend that you maybe talk to a school nurse or a doctor.

[wixard]

May be they take longer then 30 minutes

omg stop....we don't want to be on the news!!!!

blackops it might take a little bit of time but there are other things you can do
you should tell your parents or the closest family member to you cos they'll care and they can help
or even just listen, none of us here know you that well so whatever we say may not have as great an impact as hearing it from somebody that loves you
pleaseeee, go tell somebody

[Nemo]

can i just ask whats making you think about suicide? What exactly are your problems?

[blackops121]

I really don't want anyone I know to find out though, I'm too scared.


I've been getting bullied at school for quite awhile now, not physically, but just silly people starting rumors up ect. and it escalated so much that now alot of people don't like me and the only few friends I have remaining don't seem to care about me much anymore, i'm too scared to even go outside with someone I know incase i come across someone who feels the need to say something which will make the person i'm with find out about it.
Also i have a fear that my girlfriend who I really love and have liked for around 6 months before we started going out, is possibly thinking about dumping me or something, Which added onto the problems with school, I just don't think I can handle it all.

[Shar]

I really don't want anyone I know to find out though, I'm too scared.
Why are you scared :(
It might help you.

[Nemo]

can i just ask whats making you think about suicide? What exactly are your problems?


I really don't want anyone I know to find out though, I'm too scared.
Just gonna ask again coz i dont think you saw and im impatient as balls.

[blackops121]

I'm scared cause I don't know how I could tell them, how they would react or if I will be made to look silly.

Also I don't quite understand nemo?

[Nemo]

I really don't want anyone I know to find out though, I'm too scared.


I've been getting bullied at school for quite awhile now, not physically, but just silly people starting rumors up ect. and it escalated so much that now alot of people don't like me and the only few friends I have remaining don't seem to care about me much anymore, i'm too scared to even go outside with someone I know incase i come across someone who feels the need to say something which will make the person i'm with find out about it.
Also i have a fear that my girlfriend who I really love and have liked for around 6 months before we started going out, is possibly thinking about dumping me or something, Which added onto the problems with school, I just don't think I can handle it all.
Wow is that it? Im sorry but bullying can be hard but that's nothing to be suicidal over. I have felt like killing myself a number of times, both when ive been young and somewhat recently and you have nothing to being crying over. Hell, as sad as i was i probably shouldn't have been thinking of something like that since there's people SOOOOOOOOOOO much worse off its unbelievable. But anyway, back to you. Bullying is something that can be easily dealt with, if they're just rumours, ignore them. It's not even physical so im really not seeing a problem here, its not as though you're fearing for your health (or even that you're ill yourself). Just tell an adult/teacher and get it sorted with, if need be move schools if its THAT hard to cope.

As for your girlfriend, that's just your pesimistic mind, making you paranoid. Talk to her about your feelings and she'll either reassure you, or itll be true, in which case you can stop worrying and just get over it. Atleast you have a girlfriend mate.

Im sorry but you have nothing to even be depressed over. Easily solved solutions.

I'm scared cause I don't know how I could tell them, how they would react or if I will be made to look silly.

Also I don't quite understand nemo?U edited ur post nvm.

[buttons]

I really don't want anyone I know to find out though, I'm too scared.


I've been getting bullied at school for quite awhile now, not physically, but just silly people starting rumors up ect. and it escalated so much that now alot of people don't like me and the only few friends I have remaining don't seem to care about me much anymore, i'm too scared to even go outside with someone I know incase i come across someone who feels the need to say something which will make the person i'm with find out about it.
Also i have a fear that my girlfriend who I really love and have liked for around 6 months before we started going out, is possibly thinking about dumping me or something, Which added onto the problems with school, I just don't think I can handle it all.
hey, you should be really thankful you still have your girlfriend :) & you should talk to her about it. i'm sure you still have your family too? a problem shared is a problem halved. just keep your head held high and don't let them show you it bothers you and eventually it should stop, i know it's hard but it's the best way. btw suicide in my opinion, is a selfish, cowardly option when you have other people around you that do love you. it's not really fair on your girlfriend or family is it? i personally believe you're being paranoid over her but i don't know your circumstances. once you get through something horrible you can get through anything. find something you love doing, give yourself aims and don't let anyone let you do different. it could be a lot worse, remember what you do have. either way you have to find someone you trust to talk about it.
& it's not silly lol sometimes you just have to ask for help, everyone is entitled to it. you'll find it somewhere, you just have to be willing to open up.

[Shar]

I really don't want anyone I know to find out though, I'm too scared.


I've been getting bullied at school for quite awhile now, not physically, but just silly people starting rumors up ect. and it escalated so much that now alot of people don't like me and the only few friends I have remaining don't seem to care about me much anymore, i'm too scared to even go outside with someone I know incase i come across someone who feels the need to say something which will make the person i'm with find out about it.
Also i have a fear that my girlfriend who I really love and have liked for around 6 months before we started going out, is possibly thinking about dumping me or something, Which added onto the problems with school, I just don't think I can handle it all.
You're really lucky to have your girlfriend while you're going through this hard time. I think you should talk to her about everything as it might help and then you can get it out of your system.

[blackops121]

I know its not that big a reason and I probably am being abit paranoid and making being abit extreme, but for 3 years i've been going to school, sitting in a class getting constant things said to me that are really upsetting, and it can just build and build.

Also I'm not too sure about telling her, shes a really easy going type of person, who likes to go with the flow, if I told her about this she would probably be very freaked out by it or something and if my suspicions are correct about her possibly dumping me, if it is not just paranoia, this could be the final nail in the coffin if i tell her.

[Nemo]

I know its not that big a reason and I probably am being abit paranoid and making being abit extreme, but for 3 years i've been going to school, sitting in a class getting constant things said to me that are really upsetting, and it can just build and build.
Ive been bullied myself, i know what it feels like. You have 3 options.

1) Confront the bullies, see what their issue is and try it work out with them.
2) Change school, the easiest of the options and immediately sorts out your problem.
3) Talk to an adult/teacher. THey can always help and sort it out, you never know. Cant get any worse apparently.


Either way, you shouldn't even be even close to contemplating suicide and the fact that you are just surprises me.

[buttons]

well school is at the most 13 years.... not even a fifth of the average life expectancy. so you have more to live for. don't give up o.o

[Inseriousity.]

Get a piece of paper, split the page in half then write all the good things about your life (maybe you have a nice mum and dad, and you can include your girlfriend) then add all your worries on the other. If you really think about it, you may find you have a lot more to live for than you thought.

[blackops121]

well even if I manage to get through the school thing, what about the girlfriend situation? i don't know what to do about that and i dont want to lose her.

[Nemo]

well even if I manage to get through the school thing, what about the girlfriend situation? i don't know what to do about that and i dont want to lose her.
Talk to her about it. You havent lost it and you're just being paranoid, so just talk to her.

If it turns out you do lose her, then you've only be with her for 6 months. Man up and move on. You're young, the chances you stay with her the rest of your life are so stupidly small

[blackops121]

I've tried, She says everythings fine and i've to forget about it, But its clearly not, Shes not talking to me properly, she is giving short replies that are usually just seem like shes in a mood, and she said something about having a chat with someone about me and its made her realise something, and she says its not bad, but im sure it is,

[Nemo]

I've tried, She says everythings fine and i've to forget about it, But its clearly not, Shes not talking to me properly, she is giving short replies that are usually just seem like shes in a mood, and she said something about having a chat with someone about me and its made her realise something, and she says its not bad, but im sure it is,
Maybe she herself is going through something. If she says to forget about it, forget about it. Just enjoy the time you have with her instead of being paranoid about when you lose her. Like i said, its very unlikely you stay with her for the rest of ur life.

Either way, being suicidal over that kind of thing actually annoys me, just realise you're actually a lucky person, perhaps not in all aspects of your life, but overall you are.

[@K]

I think I know how you feel. I have felt the same way for a while. And recently after having been dumped by a long term girlfriend, whom I still love, losing my job and possibly my home, the only comfort I have found is the fact of moving away (also at the same time thinking I CAN go through with it now). I made the decision to move back to London and stay with my nan and grandad, or my brother for a while, whilst I sort my life out and get a job etc. I now have things to look forward to like seeing my TRUE friends, finally finishing my driving license, clubbing in style (****** Spain), and actually getting far away from my ex, which will hopefully help me stop thinking about her,

So what I'm trying to say is, find something that you can look forward to or actually try and get away atleast for a little while.

[Catzsy]

Ive been bullied myself, i know what it feels like. You have 3 options.

1) Confront the bullies, see what their issue is and try it work out with them.
2) Change school, the easiest of the options and immediately sorts out your problem.
3) Talk to an adult/teacher. THey can always help and sort it out, you never know. Cant get any worse apparently.


Either way, you shouldn't even be even close to contemplating suicide and the fact that you are just surprises me.


Wow is that it? Im sorry but bullying can be hard but that's nothing to be suicidal over. I have felt like killing myself a number of times, both when ive been young and somewhat recently and you have nothing to being crying over. Hell, as sad as i was i probably shouldn't have been thinking of something like that since there's people SOOOOOOOOOOO much worse off its unbelievable. But anyway, back to you. Bullying is something that can be easily dealt with, if they're just rumours, ignore them. It's not even physical so im really not seeing a problem here, its not as though you're fearing for your health (or even that you're ill yourself). Just tell an adult/teacher and get it sorted with, if need be move schools if its THAT hard to cope.

As for your girlfriend, that's just your pesimistic mind, making you paranoid. Talk to her about your feelings and she'll either reassure you, or itll be true, in which case you can stop worrying and just get over it. Atleast you have a girlfriend mate.

Im sorry but you have nothing to even be depressed over. Easily solved solutions.
U edited ur post nvm.

Niamh, everybody is different. He is feeling this way so that's the situation. We all get hardened as we get older but at the moment he can't help the way he feels. The good thing is that he is talking about it. :)

[Nemo]

Niamh, everybody is different. He is feeling this way so that's the situation. We all get hardened as we get older but at the moment he can't help the way he feels. The good thing is that he is talking about it. :)
I know im probably being a tad harsh, but this is a serious feeling and unles he seriously realises that he actually has a decent life, he'll probably kill himself later on in life if he gets fired or something averagely bad happens to him. Or if his girlfriend does dump him, who knows what he'll do. Better to tell him now to, straight up, that people can and have felt a lot worse and for a good reason. I'm sorry, just having felt like that before over what i believe was a big issue, to then see someone think they feel the same over getting verbally bullied + feeling paranoid annoys me.

[blackops121]

I know the seriousness of what i'm thinking on doing, and I know its a stupid reason really and the situation can be much worse, but I cant help it, its just the way I feel and need to live with every day,

[Nemo]

I know the seriousness of what i'm thinking on doing, and I know its a stupid reason really and the situation can be much worse, but I cant help it, its just the way I feel and need to live with every day,
Well you came here looking for help. I gave you solutions to all your problems and gave you an example of how it can be much worse. Nothing else i can do for you other than tell you 3 words. Deal with it.

[Shar]

I know the seriousness of what i'm thinking on doing, and I know its a stupid reason really and the situation can be much worse, but I cant help it, its just the way I feel and need to live with every day,

You're not alone you know, many people feel like this and I'm sure everyone's been through it some point in their life. Try and make this situation make you stronger and don't let anyone put you down. Get some serious help, maybe some counseling.

[Chris]

Nemo, you dont have to be so insensitive. You obviously haven't been in his situation or you would know exacltly how he feels.

And if your girlfriend is not listening to you, just tell her that it is really important to you that you get it sorted. She might listen then. :]

[blackops121]

Ok, I'm sorry I think I might've blowed it out of proportion, I'm sorry. I'll try deal with it as best I can.

and I think I may know the reason, But Its really kinda embarrassing and I dunno if i should say :S lol

[Nemo]

Nemo, you dont have to be so incensitive. You obviously havent been in his situation or you would know exacltly how he feels.

And if your girlfriend is not listening to you, just tell her that it is really important to you that you get it sorted. She might listen then. :]
Actually, i have, and ive been in worse. So yes i know how he feels. Im only being incensitive so that he understands that it really isnt something to go all suicidal over. You obviously havent been in a bad enough situation to realise that his situation is one where one would feel sad, not suicidal.


Go on, tell us. Cant help you if we dont know. And we're only internet people <;]

[blackops121]

mm I suppose, ehmmm, Basically, we have tried having sex twice, both times i've not been able to get it up, probably due to nerves, and i think thats made her go ':/'

[Nemo]

mm I suppose, ehmmm, Basically, we have tried having sex twice, both times i've not been able to get it up, probably due to nerves, and i think thats made her go ':/'that's a ridiculously common thing. Nothing big at all. The only reason she may have made it a ":/" thing is if u made it a big thing. She should know its probably due to nerves and thats that. If it happens again, just brush it off and act like it was nothing, joke about it. I really hope/doubt that isnt why shes a bit off. But thats really nothing to worry bout

[Wig44.]

mm I suppose, ehmmm, Basically, we have tried having sex twice, both times i've not been able to get it up, probably due to nerves, and i think thats made her go ':/'

Don't kill yourself. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
I can see why you were embarrassed but the first step is to get it off your chest. If you can't get it up when trying to have sex with your girlfriend then there is a problem. Are you not physically attracted to her? I know nerves can be a problem but I've only ever experienced/heard of not being able to *** the first time with a girl.

Plus if it seems like she isn't interested, she isn't tryng to help you out and you are worried about her dumping you - and you don't feel like you can talk to her about your problems then you need to drop her and move on. If she doesn't seem interested in your problems she is not someone you should waste time on.

[blackops121]

well i think she doesnt want to try again because of it.

Also wig, i am very physically attracted to her, tbh i think that may even be the cause, see I don't personally think i'm the nicest looking of guys, and everyone is surprised I managed to go out with her because she is prolly the hottest girl in the entire school, ( not just my opinion, almost all the guys at school agree ) so i think cause of that, I'm really like 'Oh **** I better try not lose her', Which is making me worry and prolly screw it up for myself.

[Jamesy]

You have to relax and be comfortable. I know it's hard, no pun intended, after what is understandably a big problem to you but because of your anxiety it will happen again. If you tell her how you're feeling and are both fully relaxed and comfortable next time around I'm sure you wont run into it again.

If you are still feeling bad and such it will affect you in that particular way.

[Nemo]

Don't kill yourself. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
I can see why you were embarrassed but the first step is to get it off your chest. If you can't get it up when trying to have sex with your girlfriend then there is a major problem. Are you not physically attracted to her? Plus if it seems like she isn't interested, she isn't tryng to help you out and you are worried about her dumping you - and you don't feel like you can talk to her about your problems then you need to drop her and move on. If she doesn't seem interested in your problems she is not someone you should waste time on.
Woah woah woah, major problem? what? Its not at all. Nerves and various others can be why he couldnt get it up. Not major at all.

[Wig44.]

Woah woah woah, major problem? what? Its not at all. Nerves and various others can be why he couldnt get it up. Not major at all.

I immediately changed it from major because on second thoughts it's not that major but it really is a problem. It's obviously come between them and it has happened twice. The ironic thing is people worry about underperforming and then underperform because of worrying. You cannot deny it as a problem.

[Nemo]

I immediately changed it from major because on second thoughts it's not that major but it really is a problem. It's obviously come between them and it has happened twice. The ironic thing is people worry about underperforming and then underperform because of worrying. You cannot deny it as a problem.
Oh yeah, its definitely a problem, but not major :P. But nothing he cant get past

[blackops121]

I know its a common thing I'll be able to overcome, But its really coming between us now because its happened twice, and thats making me worry it'll happen again and again, which is in turn probably making it happen? and she has said shes not sure she wants to try again, because of it, which iss making me think i've ****** it up.

[Nemo]

I know its a common thing I'll be able to overcome, But its really coming between us now because its happened twice, and thats making me worry it'll happen again and again, which is in turn probably making it happen? and she has said shes not sure she wants to try again, because of it, which iss making me think i've ****** it up.
Well she's gonna have to get past it. Just talk to her. Cant exactly have ur relationship sexless can you? Just keep at it and you'll get it eventually, just have to convince her

[blackops121]

But like I say, shes a person that doesn't think things over too much, If i try and convince her, itll annoy her and might make the situation worse?

[Wig44.]

I know its a common thing I'll be able to overcome, But its really coming between us now because its happened twice, and thats making me worry it'll happen again and again, which is in turn probably making it happen? and she has said shes not sure she wants to try again, because of it, which iss making me think i've ****** it up.

You need to take control now. Tell her it was nerves, you want to try again, tell her you are attracted to her (she may be doubting herself, girls are just as insecure as guys) but don't go over the top and start kissing the ground she walks on unless you want to lose any chance with her. If she says no then obviously you need to respect that and move on. With the bullying problem, who cares what they think? You should go to a teacher and get it sorted if it bothers you but the reason they need to pick on you is to massage their egos and make up for their gaping insecurities.

[blackops121]

We've had a conversation about it and i'm not too sure it went well, she just refused to reply to me, so i'll go with what you say, i'll leave it alittle while, and if she hasnt dumped me i'll say to her i want to try again, and see what she says, if she says no then i'll just have to deal with it. its only sex i suppose.

[Wig44.]

We've had a conversation about it and i'm not too sure it went well, she just refused to reply to me, so i'll go with what you say, i'll leave it alittle while, and if she hasnt dumped me i'll say to her i want to try again, and see what she says, if she says no then i'll just have to deal with it. its only sex i suppose.

Oh god. 'I'll leave it a little while and if she hasn't dumped me I'll go and beg her for sex'

You're the man in the relationship. Get an answer from her or leave her. Don't let her play her stupid games. If she absolutely refuses to talk about it then she isn't a girl you want to waste time on. If she says no (basically not sexually attracted to you) then there is no point in having a relationship with her, move on. Don't say 'it's only sex' because if there is no sex then she may as well be a friend and you both find other people to have sex with whilst maintaining a friendship with each other. You have no obligations to this girl!

[qaxzsw]

Hey,

I havn't read all the posts but if your between 13 - 19 (and if not you could just lie) Connexions Direct have an Live online one-to-one chat - I've used it a few times and they really help. You don't have to register anything and it's open untill about 2am, so if you want to talk to them heres the link:
http://www.connexions-direct.com/index.cfm?pid=223

It may be busy so you may have a short wait untill an advisor is free, but they are sure to help you.

[Rapidshare]

Penis problems? - Go to a GUM clinic.

Edited by Infectious (Trialist Forum Moderator): Please do not make pointless posts that have no relevance to the thread subject, thanks.

[blackops121]

Oh god. 'I'll leave it a little while and if she hasn't dumped me I'll go and beg her for sex'

You're the man in the relationship. Get an answer from her or leave her. Don't let her play her stupid games. If she absolutely refuses to talk about it then she isn't a girl you want to waste time on. If she says no (basically not sexually attracted to you) then there is no point in having a relationship with her, move on. Don't say 'it's only sex' because if there is no sex then she may as well be a friend and you both find other people to have sex with whilst maintaining a friendship with each other. You have no obligations to this girl!


But I love her, its not just about sex?

[Neversoft]

Well you came here looking for help. I gave you solutions to all your problems and gave you an example of how it can be much worse. Nothing else i can do for you other than tell you 3 words. Deal with it.

Dude, you're far too harsh. You don't know blackops in real life, you can't fully grasp the problems they are going through, so stop acting like it's so simple and your posts are the answers to everything. Everyone knows to talk to a teacher if they're getting bullied, everyone knows confronting your friends and relatives in a tough situation is a step forward, but things quite often aren't so simple. Sorry, but if I was suicidal and I read your posts I don't think they would help one bit. Love you, but you're not the Gandhi of Habbox. Sometimes your posts are far too insensitive and ignorant so just chill out. :P

[TheEclipse]

Go and see a doctor. It's done me a world of good.
Or, like others have said, call a hotline.

[ChickenFaces]

It may sound silly but suicide hot lines do more than just convince people to not jump off of the nearest building. Call them up, I'm sure they'd be happy to help you with anything you're feeling bad about. There's always someone willing to listen, even when it doesn't seem that way.

[blackops121]

My girlfriend dumped me today when I went to see her, :(.

Also I've told a friend about my situation and they are trying to help me.
Thanks for the help guys, I'll try not and take too extreme an action.

[Catzsy]

My girlfriend dumped me today when I went to see her, :(.

Also I've told a friend about my situation and they are trying to help me.
Thanks for the help guys, I'll try not and take too extreme an action.


Well what you suspected would happen has and now it has you can go through the natural stages of 'grief' over a broken relationship. It will take time but at least you know where you stand now. You probably think you will never feel any better but you will given time. :)

[blackops121]

Well what you suspected would happen has and now it has you can go through the natural stages of 'grief' over a broken relationship. It will take time but at least you know where you stand now. You probably think you will never feel any better but you will given time. :)

Thank you Catzsy, but I don't really know where I stand at the moment, Shes very confused at the situation and has not sure shes made the right decision or not, its kind of hurting me knowing shes crying over it cause she really doesn't know what to do.

[Stephen]

How old are you? Soz if already posted but I'm lazy

[Catzsy]

Thank you Catzsy, but I don't really know where I stand at the moment, Shes very confused at the situation and has not sure shes made the right decision or not, its kind of hurting me knowing shes crying over it cause she really doesn't know what to do.

I think you should be more concerned about yourself at the moment tbh. Breaking up with someone can be just as hard as being 'dumped'. You obviously had some good times together and I am sure he appreciates that. She needs time too.

[blackops121]

I think you should be more concerned about yourself at the moment tbh. Breaking up with someone can be just as hard as being 'dumped'. You obviously had some good times together and I am sure he appreciates that. She needs time too.

Yeah, Shes taking it kinda hard too. We've agreed to meet this sunday and see how things are, to find out whether we should be just friends or more.
We definetly had some good times, if im honest alot of drunken times, but all the same the memorys were good.

And i'm 15. Shes 17 in April.

[Catzsy]

Yeah, Shes taking it kinda hard too. We've agreed to meet this sunday and see how things are, to find out whether we should be just friends or more.
We definetly had some good times, if im honest alot of drunken times, but all the same the memorys were good.

And i'm 15. Shes 17 in April.

Well hope things can at least be talked about. Good luck for Sunday. :)

[Greeksta23]

What you need to do is focus on each other mate, forget getting drunk etc - A relationship requires thought - Make sure you're sober on Sunday too xD - But on a serious note. A relationship is about two people make sure you both feel it's right otherwise you'll end up regretting it and hating each other

Good luck on Sunday and I hope everything works out for you!

[blackops121]

Haha thank you mate, We are keeping it sober on sunday :P I really do hope it works out, Because i'm ment to be going to one of my friends house party in a week, and she is going to be there as it is her friend too, so if things work out bad, It may be kind of awkward haha.

[AgnesIO]

I have been bullied once in my life.

Was by a kid on my old school bus who was 2/3 years older than me, and basically didn't like me because I refused to listen to him - you know how it works, the 'big kids' should be listened to. To be honest, I just thought he was a bit of a ****. He threw something at me once, at which point I got up and hit him. Probably didn't solve anything - but throwing things did stop. But you want to know what stopped it? Telling someone. I told my sister, who came with me to see a teacher at the school. Believe me, it stopped.

A lot of the times, whether you realise it or not, bullies are just stupid. They don't want to get in trouble - and when they do? They **** off.