Rule A5: Continued

[Josh]

Since my other thread got closed, I just wanted to post this.

http://i52.tinypic.com/241p25v.png


Game items must only be exchanged for other items/services within the game. Exchanging game items for items or other benefits in other online games, real-life money or other real-life benefits is not allowed.


I don't think you can interpret that any other way.

Source: http://www.runescape.com/rules/rule_real_world_trading.ws
Old Thread: http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=682834

[Pyroka]

How can you think that you were allowed to do that? O.o

[Sarah]

I always thought it was against the Habbo way to trade for runescape items anyway? So surely it would of come under those rules as you would of broken a rule either way..

[Grig]

This is why/what I was saying in the old thread that it was breaking Jagex's rules either way.

[Catzsy]

How can you think that you were allowed to do that? O.o


This is why/what I was saying in the old thread that it was breaking Jagex's rules either way.

Well it only seems to have come in in February, 2010 so that is why it has been allowed on here for so long. Over to ,management. :)

[Josh]

Just because it was last updated in Feburary 2010, doesn't mean the rule was introduced then.

[Catzsy]

Just because it was last updated in Feburary 2010, doesn't mean the rule was introduced then.

Its says effective from February, 2010 - not updated. That's the difference as it means it was brought into force on that date. Also do you know of any circumstances that it has been enforced as I know anybody found botting on more than one occasion is banned. This is just to get a true picture as to what happens. I have never known Habbo to enforce this.

[Josh]

Its says effective from February, 2010 - not updated. That's the difference as it means it was brought into force on that date. Also do you know of any circumstances that it has been enforced as I know anybody found botting on more than one occasion is banned. This is just to get a true picture as to what happens. I have never known Habbo to enforce this.

Effective makes no sense though. Botting as been against the rules for years and years but on it's page it says:


Effective date: 12th May 2009

Just because it isn't enforced, that doesn't automatically allow it.

Also, I, myself have been banned for doing it (RS Ban for a RS for Habbo trade).

And since when are we talking about Habbo enforcing it? This is in the Runescape section.

[Catzsy]

Effective makes no sense though. Botting as been against the rules for years and years but on it's page it says:



Just because it isn't enforced, that doesn't automatically allow it.

Also, I, myself have been banned for doing it (RS Ban for a RS for Habbo trade).

And since when are we talking about Habbo enforcing it? This is in the Runescape section.

Effective = rules brought in on that date. That's all I can say as we are not privilege to seeing the old rules. I didn't say it did automatically allow it but it is not up to me to make the decision on it though. Well it is a Habbo fansite site so if it does make a difference. MAD made the old rules up and they included a ban on Account Trading but not this so unless the management know thats rules have changed they cannot make any changes here should they wish to do so.

[Grig]

Effective makes no sense though. Botting as been against the rules for years and years but on it's page it says:



Just because it isn't enforced, that doesn't automatically allow it.

Also, I, myself have been banned for doing it (RS Ban for a RS for Habbo trade).

And since when are we talking about Habbo enforcing it? This is in the Runescape section.

Yes they have things like checking for unbalanced trades between two IP addresses etc. and that could result players getting banned as a direct consequence of actions on our forums, which may not be the best thing at all.

@Rosie: What happened before is insignificant, we are talking about rules at the current time. Once a rule or a law is effective, people are expected to get by the times and follow it.

As far as I'm aware these rules existed prior to this 'effective' date. However in 2009 Jagex re-did their rules, as they were categorized by numbers and not by topic, making many of their rules much more vague. After 2009 and during 2010 this was re-done and rules became by topic and more clearer, thus the rule we are discussing most probably had a re-phrasing to what we see today.

[Catzsy]

Yes they have things like checking for unbalanced trades between two IP addresses etc. and that could result players getting banned as a direct consequence of actions on our forums, which may not be the best thing at all.

@Rosie: What happened before is insignificant, we are talking about rules at the current time. Once a rule or a law is effective, people are expected to get by the times and follow it.As far as I'm aware these rules existed prior to this 'effective' date. However in 2009 Jagex re-did their rules were categorized by numbers and not by topic, making many of their rules much more vague. After 2009 and during 2010 this was re-done and rules became by topic and more clearer, thus the rule we are discussing most probably had a re-phrasing to what we see today.

I agree with the part in bold but this was not brought to the attention of Habbox 'in black and white' until today so they could not really have acted on it. It is obviously up to Management to now consider it in the light of the information. I do not see it the duty of Habbox to 'get by the times and follow' something that was not known and that Jagex have not complained to them about. I also do not think it is up to Habbox to
go looking for updates either.

[Grig]

I agree with the part in bold but this was not brought to the attention of Habbox 'in black and white' until today so they could not really have acted on it. It is obviously up to Management to now consider it in the light of the information. I do not see it the duty of Habbox to 'get by the times and follow' something that was not known and that Jagex have not complained to them about. I also do not think it is up to Habbox to
go looking for updates either.

It's their game and they can do whatever they want. They can also take action against sites promoting rule-breaking. Although, they only do this for the bigger sites I'm sure it isn't good for Habbox. If you choose to dedicate a section to runescape make sure there is no dirty laundry hanging around in it, no one was forcing you to do that section either if we go by your argument of why should Habbox go and scout for rules.

For the better part you need to comply with the Habbo way and it is your duty to do that, just as it is your duty to not be running a black-market forum in terms of runescape trading!

[Catzsy]

It's their game and they can do whatever they want. They can also take action against sites promoting rule-breaking. Although, they only do this for the bigger sites I'm sure it isn't good for Habbox. If you choose to dedicate a section to runescape make sure there is no dirty laundry hanging around in it, no one was forcing you to do that section either if we go by your argument of why should Habbox go and scout for rules.

For the better part you need to comply with the Habbo way and it is your duty to do that, just as it is your duty to not be running a black-market forum in terms of runescape trading!

Well this is the Habbo Way

The Habbo Way is a simple set of rules for all players to follow in the Habbo:

* Do not bully, harass or abuse other players; avoid violent or aggressive behaviour.

* Do not steal or scam passwords, credits or furniture from other players.

* Keep your password and personal details secret and never try to gain this information from other players.

* You may not give away, sell or trade your Habbo account or seek to sell virtual items from Habbo for cash.

* Do not take part in sexual activities, make sexual proposals or respond to them.

* Do not use any scripts or third party software to enter, disrupt or modify Habbo.

Treat other players as you would wish to be treated! And remember that a crime in a virtual world is as serious as in the real world.

There is nothing there to suggest that trading items for Runescape is against the T&Cs but it is for cash. How do you know the part in bold? I am speaking personally not for Habbox - it is for management to decide. I think you are being pretty unrealistic to think that any site goes looking for updates in rules except for the main one they are affiliated to i.e. it is a Habbo Fansite. As for the rest I am sure the management will consider your points.

[Josh]

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/02/12/24648.htm

Jagex sued bot developers.

Of course, this is last case scenario and certainly wouldn't happen to Habbox but it still breaks terms and conditions.

Also, I'm sorry, but why are we looking at the Habbo way? The fansite way probably touches on it a a little when it says "Don't break the law or encourages others to do so" or something similar to that. What I'm talking about is the Habboxforum rules.


A5. Do not use this forum for any illegal practices, including but not limited to:

* Breaking of the Habbo Way or encouraging T&C violation.

Not the habbo way... this forum's own rules.

Edit: Don't even get me started on the fansite way though; Habboxforum violates it too.

[Cosmic]

Sticks my neck out a little bit. I understand what everyone is saying and I think in light of Wiizzz's find, Habbox needs to change their stance regarding Habbo/RS trading. I'm sure that not doing so could lead to a potential for trouble from Jagex.

[Catzsy]

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/02/12/24648.htm

Jagex sued bot developers.

Of course, this is last case scenario and certainly wouldn't happen to Habbox but it still breaks terms and conditions.

Also, I'm sorry, but why are we looking at the Habbo way? The fansite way probably touches on it a a little when it says "Don't break the law or encourages others to do so" or something similar to that. What I'm talking about is the Habboxforum rules.



Not the habbo way... this forum's own rules.

Edit: Don't even get me started on the fansite way though; Habboxforum violates it too.

Because Grig said this, Wiizzz.

For the better part you need to comply with the Habbo way and it is your duty to do that, just as it is your duty to not be running a black-market forum in terms of runescape trading!

It was in answer to Grig but I am sure your post above will prove useful however I do not think that Habbox violates the fansite way in any shape or form.

[Hecktix]

Wiizzz, HabboxForum breaks the Fansite Way in no manner, we've only broken it once and we got in quite a bit of trouble for it, well we didn't Kazopark did.

At the end of the day we are a Habbo fansite and we will follow the rules Habbo present to us, it's these rules we monitor for changes and developments. We will not constantly monitor other sites that we have minute sections on, it's not plausible and quite frankly our management would be doing nothing else but rules research.

HabboxForum has allowed the trading of Habbo to Runescape for many years and whilst runescape have sent us emails about botting and account trading they have never contacted us regarding this, so either way it must be a relatively new rule or they would have mentioned it in previous correspondence.

Perhaps it is time to refresh the rules on runescape with this now coming to light, I asked Jin about the matter when I was a Super Moderator and was informed that it wasn't technically against Jagex rules - as shown in your first post they seem to have reworded certain rules to forbid the trading for benefits on other sites - this is now pretty clear that it's against the rules, so perhaps Catzsy and Cosmic are correct it would seem Habbox needs to update this now it has been brought to our attention.

However, there was no need for us to find this out ourselves, as I have said we are a dedicated Habbo Fansite and will follow the rules that Habbo provide us and of course International Laws.

[Josh]

So are you going to look into changing it or are you going to leave it as it is:

If option 1: That's good, thanks.

If option 2: It's breaking the forum rules so it needs to be changed.

[Hecktix]

So are you going to look into changing it or are you going to leave it as it is:

If option 1: That's good, thanks.

If option 2: It's breaking the forum rules so it needs to be changed.

It will be discussed with Forum Management before it's discussed with you, Josh ;)

[Josh]

That's all I need to hear.

[Chippiewill]

I'd like to point out the trading Habbo furniture for any non-Habbo goods is probably in violation of Habbo T&Cs (Not Habbo Way) since they probably have something about it remaining the property of Sulake.

Edit:

* violate the contractual, personal, intellectual property or other rights of any party, or promote or constitute illegal activity;


You have no property interest in Habbo® Credits, Premium Subscriptions, your avatar, virtual items (e.g., Habbo® Furni or rares), which remain the exclusive property of Sulake subject only to your limited, non-transferable revocable license to use such for in-game play subject to these Terms and Conditions of Sale and the Terms of Use.

It violates Habbo T&Cs, this should end.. now.

Edit2: And concerning the other thread being locked, I thought I had raised the issue of closing threads management disagree with. The reasoning then did not seem valid at all.

[Josh]

I'd like to point out the trading Habbo furniture for any non-Habbo goods is probably in violation of Habbo T&Cs (Not Habbo Way) since they probably have something about it remaining the property of Sulake.

Edit:




It violates Habbo T&Cs, this should end.. now.

Edit2: And concerning the other thread being locked, I thought I had raised the issue of closing threads management disagree with. The reasoning then did not seem valid at all.


Habbo® Credits, and Premium Subscriptions have no monetary value, are non-refundable and cannot be used to purchase or use products or services other than in-game play offered by Sulake (e.g., Habbo® Furni (defined below) or Habbo® Games).

Would that apply too?

[Chippiewill]

Would that apply too?
Yes that would.

[Catzsy]

I'd like to point out the trading Habbo furniture for any non-Habbo goods is probably in violation of Habbo T&Cs (Not Habbo Way) since they probably have something about it remaining the property of Sulake.

Edit:




It violates Habbo T&Cs, this should end.. now.

Edit2: And concerning the other thread being locked, I thought I had raised the issue of closing threads management disagree with. The reasoning then did not seem valid at all.


* violate the contractual, personal, intellectual property or other rights of any party, or promote or constitute illegal activity; You have no property interest in Habbo® Credits, Premium Subscriptions, your avatar, virtual items (e.g., Habbo® Furni or rares), which remain the exclusive property of Sulake subject only to your limited, non-transferable revocable license to use such for in-game play subject to these Terms and Conditions of Sale and the Terms of Use.

Okay to violate the intellectual property would be to breach their copyright without permission. This doesn't happen. To have no property interest just means they retain the right of beneficial ownership of the items and as a habbo member you have a licence to use them in the game of habbo. This is quite common for virtual games. You could not possibly play with the items outside of the game anyway. Every member of Habbo has a licence to play with them so I don't see any bar on trading just that your licence to play is non-transferable. This makes sense as account trading/selling is not allowed and neither is trading for cash. Nothing I can see backs up your argument that you cannot trade habbo for RS or vice versa. The rules are quite clear on Runescape now as Wiizz pointed out. If it was I am sure Habbo would be in contact about it.

[Chippiewill]

Okay to violate the intellectual property would be to breach their copyright without permission. This doesn't happen. To have no property interest just means they retain the right of beneficial ownership of the items and as a habbo member you have a licence to use them in the game of habbo. This is quite common for virtual games. You could not possibly play with the items outside of the game anyway. Every member of Habbo has a licence to play with them so I don't see any bar on trading just that your licence to play is non-transferable. This makes sense as account trading/selling is not allowed and neither is trading for cash. Nothing I can see backs up your argument that you cannot trade habbo for RS or vice versa. The rules are quite clear on Runescape now as Wiizz pointed out. If it was I am sure Habbo would be in contact about it.

Because if it remain property of Sulake then you don't have the permission to trade it for other online goods outside of the habbo system.

[Nicola]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention and it seems our rules will need to be changed slightly now to fit the RuneScape ones. Obviously we won't be changing rule A5 but we'll be changing the rules for the RuneScape trading forum.

As for the comments regarding Habbo, Sulake staff are frequent visitors to the forum and I haven't heard of any complaints. Should they have any complaints then I am sure they will contact us.

[Chippiewill]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention and it seems our rules will need to be changed slightly now to fit the RuneScape ones. Obviously we won't be changing rule A5 but we'll be changing the rules for the RuneScape trading forum.

As for the comments regarding Habbo, Sulake staff are frequent visitors to the forum and I haven't heard of any complaints. Should they have any complaints then I am sure they will contact us.

They may not be aware it occurs, I wouldn't expect Redtiz to spend the little time she has snooping around the runescape section of all places.

[Hecktix]

They may not be aware it occurs, I wouldn't expect Redtiz to spend the little time she has snooping around the runescape section of all places.

Redtiz has nothing to do with fansites, for as long as Habbo have had a fansite way they have made sure it is stuck to, we know this because if there's something wrong they are on our backs instantly.

[Josh]

They may not be aware it occurs, I wouldn't expect Redtiz to spend the little time she has snooping around the runescape section of all places.

She gets 1-2 hours per week and that's probably not even enough to answer all PMs and look into all the unfair bans.

[Hecktix]

She gets 1-2 hours per week and that's probably not even enough to answer all PMs and look into all the unfair bans.

She was telling me the other day she doesn't get many PMs and asking if she's ok to direct people here who need a quick question answering, not that it's relevant to sulake checking up on us - like I said Redtiz isn't responsible for fansites.

[Chippiewill]

Redtiz has nothing to do with fansites, for as long as Habbo have had a fansite way they have made sure it is stuck to, we know this because if there's something wrong they are on our backs instantly.

Regardless, you have a self enforced obligation to moderate within the rules which includes enforcing non-violation of habbo T&Cs which trading habbo furni for Runescape stuff is.

That AND they probably aren't interested in the runescape forum too much anyway.

[Hecktix]

Regardless, you have a self enforced obligation to moderate within the rules which includes enforcing non-violation of habbo T&Cs which trading habbo furni for Runescape stuff is.

That AND they probably aren't interested in the runescape forum too much anyway.

Which we do and if there are any issues they are pointed out in feedback and reacted to promptly by the relevant department managers.

[Chippiewill]

Which we do and if there are any issues they are pointed out in feedback and reacted to promptly by the relevant department managers.
Fine but what Catzsy said about being informed about the problem was wrong, you should not wait to be told off to fix it.

[Hecktix]

Fine but what Catzsy said about being informed about the problem was wrong, you should not wait to be told off to fix it.

That depends really, if it would seem that our members benefit from such activity and we believe Sulake are aware of it (or in Runescapes case, dont have clear rules against it) then we will allow it as long as it's not highly illegal as in the case with these small things we would just get an email asking us to change the rules if they changed their mind - there should be no issue with doing that.

In this case Jagex have cleared their rules up and we've been made aware of it so we'll change it to suit them as now they are clear on it and appear to be quite strict.

If it's likely we can get away with minor things and it benefits our members we'll do it.

[nvrspk4]

1) Redtiz does deal with Habbo Fansites sometimes, but is not the only one that frequently visits our forums. We get several, and when they don't like something they email management about it and it has always been promptly dealt with, I assume this was no different.

2) Habbo has been contacted about this very issue in the past, and did not request that Habbox change it

3) Habbox's stance on the issue was that we would enforce Habbo's rules proactively, however we could not attempt to enforce the rules of every game everywhere. Therefore the decision was made that we would enforce Habbo T&C violation but other games, such as Runescape, we would be reactive and change things as they requested. Of course management is free to change this policy, but I would advocate keeping it.

4) RS has contacted us about account trading and other things. RuneScape, contrary to Redtiz, does scour our Runescape forums and trading Habbo for RS is and has always been very prevalent.

5) We have never been contacted about Habbo RS trading in my time at Habbox, and since Oli says that they have also not been contacted, it isn't a huge jump to say that Habbox has never been contacted.


You have no property interest in Habbo® Credits, Premium Subscriptions, your avatar, virtual items (e.g., Habbo® Furni or rares), which remain the exclusive property of Sulake subject only to your limited, non-transferable revocable license to use such for in-game play subject to these Terms and Conditions of Sale and the Terms of Use.

This does not counter Habbo-RS trading.

1) This says that just because you buy a piece of furniture with credits does not mean that it now belongs to you and that you can repost it and use it in your own game for example, now that you have "purchased" it.
2) This is put in place to deal with bans, essentially saying that when they terminate your license to play, you are not eligible for refunds or recompensation as that furni/subscription was granted under this license
3) Use for "in-game play". Trading is in-game play, even if you are giving it away.

The intention of these rules is not at all to prevent Habbo-RS trading. As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure if there are Habbo bans for that, though there are bans for RWT.


Habbo® Credits, and Premium Subscriptions have no monetary value, are non-refundable and cannot be used to purchase or use products or services other than in-game play offered by Sulake (e.g., Habbo® Furni (defined below) or Habbo® Games).

IMO that means that you can't go up to Sulake and say, here's a hundred credits, can you send me a new phone? It's not definitive at all, and I'd say here again you're misinterpreting their intentions to protect themselves from lawsuits for recompensation for premium subscriptions or Habbo credits.

[Catzsy]

Regardless, you have a self enforced obligation to moderate within the rules which includes enforcing non-violation of habbo T&Cs which trading habbo furni for Runescape stuff is.That AND they probably aren't interested in the runescape forum too much anyway.

Do you actually read the replys to your posts? :P

I already explained here why the part in bold is not violation and nvrspk4 has confirmed this above.

My previous reply:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=683096&p=6940034#post6940034


Okay to violate the intellectual property would be to breach their copyright without permission. This doesn't happen. To have no property interest just means they retain the right of beneficial ownership of the items and as a habbo member you have a licence to use them in the game of habbo. This is quite common for virtual games. You could not possibly play with the items outside of the game anyway. Every member of Habbo has a licence to play with them so I don't see any bar on trading just that your licence to play is non-transferable. This makes sense as account trading/selling is not allowed and neither is trading for cash. Nothing I can see backs up your argument that you cannot trade habbo for RS or vice versa. The rules are quite clear on Runescape now as Wiizz pointed out. If it was I am sure Habbo would be in contact about it.

Any comments on this?

[Pyroka]

I'm just putting my opinions out here, and something that I know a few people will be thinking now but Habbo to Runescape trades have always been frowned upon. At one point I swear people were being banned for it, but they have always been frowned upon by everyone. I've played Runescape a month, and Habbo for almost 6 years and I know that. I don't see how Habbox can even go onto almost defend their decision to endorse Habbo to Runescape trades, you might as well set up a forum for Habbo to RWT's because you're at the same risk of trading between games with no security.

In fact, you'd be a fool to even think it's fine to do it. It's noticeable that this thread is no longer a feedback thread, but merely a game of who's right & who's wrong. It's despicable! Wiizzz brought up a valid point & only members of Management are the ones who are against the idea of protecting users from the insecurities of trading between games. Just remember when somebody gets scammed on a Habbo to Runescape trade which was conducted on HabboxForum, you could've protected them however you blatently ignored users concerns for the sake of saving face.

[Catzsy]

I'm just putting my opinions out here, and something that I know a few people will be thinking now but Habbo to Runescape trades have always been frowned upon. At one point I swear people were being banned for it, but they have always been frowned upon by everyone. I've played Runescape a month, and Habbo for almost 6 years and I know that. I don't see how Habbox can even go onto almost defend their decision to endorse Habbo to Runescape trades, you might as well set up a forum for Habbo to RWT's because you're at the same risk of trading between games with no security.

In fact, you'd be a fool to even think it's fine to do it. It's noticeable that this thread is no longer a feedback thread, but merely a game of who's right & who's wrong. It's despicable! Wiizzz brought up a valid point & only members of Management are the ones who are against the idea of protecting users from the insecurities of trading between games. Just remember when somebody gets scammed on a Habbo to Runescape trade which was conducted on HabboxForum, you could've protected them however you blatently ignored users concerns for the sake of saving face.

I think you will find that Management have said they will consider all of Wiizz's points now that the rule has been brought to their attention. Also there have always been 'disclaimers' on Habbox Forum in every section that has trading saying that it is their responsibility such as this one:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=628432
Before that there was one along the same lines posted by --Mad-- so members are well aware of the risk they take. Also during the time of --Mad-- and perhaps later it was not considered important that we bother about Runescape Rules and T&Cs or even Crack codes & serial keys on software etc and other links that were considered by the members to be 'illegal'. It was this management team who tightened up all these rules so I am not sure what you are talking about. Nobody has ignored user concerns as all points are being considered. As for what is 'right or wrong' this has to be established to enable the management to come to a balanced decision.

[Pyroka]

I think you will find that Management have said they will consider all of Wiizz's points now that the rule has been brought to their attention. Also there have always been 'disclaimers' on Habbox Forum in every section that has trading saying that it is their responsibility such as this one:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=628432
Before that there was one along the same lines posted by --Mad-- so members are well aware of the risk they take. Nobody has ignored user concerns as all points are being considered. As for what is 'right or wrong' this has to be established to enable the management to come to a balanced decision.

When it comes to Habbox, I find the words "we'll consider" another way of saying we'll chat about it but honestly we know best. I think that shows in this thread actually, that though they say they'll consider it their standpoint is truly set and they aren't representing the users interests but only their own. I still stand by my opinion that HabboxForum should outlaw the practice of trading Habbo for Runescape items, & that simply by not doing so will only land them in the ****. Habbo is for Habbo items, Runescape is for Runescape items. That's that for me, and I'd be lying if I cared for otherwise.

[Hecktix]

1) Redtiz does deal with Habbo Fansites sometimes, but is not the only one that frequently visits our forums. We get several, and when they don't like something they email management about it and it has always been promptly dealt with, I assume this was no different.

Just to clarify, Redtiz no longer deals with fansites in regards to how they are run etc - her role is purely to do with the Moderation & Safety of Habbo players since the merge - this is somethig Redtiz has clarified with us and the most she has to do with fansites is that she is interested in communicating safety tips/advice to the Habbo Community - and an off topic note, I am unbelievably grateful that she chooses to use Habbox to do this.

In regards to the issue I believe runescape rules need revising to highlight further that Habbox has no responsibility over Habbo-Runescape trades however unless Jin notifies us otherwise it's not something that will be changed.

Habbo are definitely aware of this practice occurring and I am under the impression Runescape probably are too - it's worth noting that such practices are always going to occur and I believe both companies are aware of this, however if I was the person in charge of regulating such things for these companies I would draw a blind eye to such things happening on a long-standing, trusted, public forum rather than in complete privacy - trading Habbo for Runescape and likewise via HabboxForum is probably one of the safest ways of it being done so with it being absolutely inevitable that such practices will occur, I do not believe turning a blind eye would be such a bad idea - in Jagex's eyes we are a site trusted and monitored by Sulake - tell me, would you rather your users risked themselves privately or somewhere like HabboxForum, afterall risk is why a lot of these rules are in place, I know there are aspects of other things too however as I've said, it's going to happen anyway I'd rather pose a safe atmosphere for it to happen. Runescape have told us in the past what they really don't want us to do and we've complied - if they want us to stop this, we'll do it however with Jagex's rules pointing out that it is strictly against the rules, I think our users need to be reminded of this.

[Inseriousity.]

In regards to the issue I believe runescape rules need revising to highlight further that Habbox has no responsibility over Habbo-Runescape trades however unless Jin notifies us otherwise it's not something that will be changed.

I think this is already the case? I'm sure I saw it somewhere or maybe I'm seeing things!
edit: http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=628432 - yeah here it is! first sentence is clear enough that it's the responsibility of the user.


I think it is rather unfair to criticise any management of "ignoring users concerns" as management do what they feel is best for the forum etc. There was a time in the runescape forum when the only activity was people trading (I think it might have picked itself back up now though) and I wonder if we went into that forum what they'd say to forum management banning it as after all, they are the ones using it and therefore it would be their concern that management should focus on imo :)

[Redtiz]

1) Redtiz does deal with Habbo Fansites sometimes, but is not the only one that frequently visits our forums. We get several, and when they don't like something they email management about it and it has always been promptly dealt with, I assume this was no different.

No, I don't deal with Habbo fansites at all.


Just to clear up this Runescape/Habbo trading stuff:

1. Habbos T&Cs and Runescape's T&Cs are completely separate things and what one allows, the other may not.
2. As far as Habbo's T&Cs are concerned trading Habbo furni for items from other games is not against our T&Cs (so we don't ban you for it) BUT we highly discourage anyone doing it because such trades have no security whatsoever and you're more than likely to end up giving away your Habbo items and getting nothing in return.
3. Habbo's rules have no bearing on Runescapes rules, if their rules are that you cannot trade their items for items from other games then you obviously risk getting your Runescape account banned if you're caught doing so.
4. Habbo's rules are quite simple - you cannot sell furni for cash, nor can you trade or sell your accounts.

Hope that clears things up

[Callum.]

Wiizzz, HabboxForum breaks the Fansite Way in no manner, we've only broken it once and we got in quite a bit of trouble for it, well we didn't Kazopark did.

At the end of the day we are a Habbo fansite and we will follow the rules Habbo present to us, it's these rules we monitor for changes and developments. We will not constantly monitor other sites that we have minute sections on, it's not plausible and quite frankly our management would be doing nothing else but rules research.

HabboxForum has allowed the trading of Habbo to Runescape for many years and whilst runescape have sent us emails about botting and account trading they have never contacted us regarding this, so either way it must be a relatively new rule or they would have mentioned it in previous correspondence.

Perhaps it is time to refresh the rules on runescape with this now coming to light, I asked Jin about the matter when I was a Super Moderator and was informed that it wasn't technically against Jagex rules - as shown in your first post they seem to have reworded certain rules to forbid the trading for benefits on other sites - this is now pretty clear that it's against the rules, so perhaps Catzsy and Cosmic are correct it would seem Habbox needs to update this now it has been brought to our attention.

However, there was no need for us to find this out ourselves, as I have said we are a dedicated Habbo Fansite and will follow the rules that Habbo provide us and of course International Laws.

This isn't aimed at your post, mainly just in general and some things you've said.

Okkkk. As an actual user of the runescape forum, past and present, I'm just intrigued as why you want to kill the subforum completely? With free trade coming back, it is a chance for the section to reclaim some of its old members as well as get new ones from people trading from runescape to habbo or vice versa. In the past it's never been a problem, yet it's always been a rule breaking offence, it's always had a blind eye taken to it. I honestly don't understand how one member can get a rule changed which made the runescape section what it is. Whether you needed a few HC's and had some cash on rune or you were quitting for the other game, trading is what kept people coming to the section.

This site isn't sythe, ***** or FJ, it's simply a habbo forum which doesn't bring in some super cool hackers and cheaters, merely a few people who break a few rules by trading over the games. It isn't making a company that bots it's gold tons of money to bot more, it's staying in the game on both games. If you get rid of this, you're just like erasing some of the sections history and future (possible) glory.


No, I don't deal with Habbo fansites at all.


Just to clear up this Runescape/Habbo trading stuff:

1. Habbos T&Cs and Runescape's T&Cs are completely separate things and what one allows, the other may not.
2. As far as Habbo's T&Cs are concerned trading Habbo furni for items from other games is not against our T&Cs (so we don't ban you for it) BUT we highly discourage anyone doing it because such trades have no security whatsoever and you're more than likely to end up giving away your Habbo items and getting nothing in return.
3. Habbo's rules have no bearing on Runescapes rules, if their rules are that you cannot trade their items for items from other games then you obviously risk getting your Runescape account banned if you're caught doing so.
4. Habbo's rules are quite simple - you cannot sell furni for cash, nor can you trade or sell your accounts.

Hope that clears things up

Clears it up, let it stay, and don't let a member change something so pointlessly. It's like a self kill, why even bring it up?

[Zak]

No, I don't deal with Habbo fansites at all.


Just to clear up this Runescape/Habbo trading stuff:

1. Habbos T&Cs and Runescape's T&Cs are completely separate things and what one allows, the other may not.
2. As far as Habbo's T&Cs are concerned trading Habbo furni for items from other games is not against our T&Cs (so we don't ban you for it) BUT we highly discourage anyone doing it because such trades have no security whatsoever and you're more than likely to end up giving away your Habbo items and getting nothing in return.
3. Habbo's rules have no bearing on Runescapes rules, if their rules are that you cannot trade their items for items from other games then you obviously risk getting your Runescape account banned if you're caught doing so.
4. Habbo's rules are quite simple - you cannot sell furni for cash, nor can you trade or sell your accounts.

Hope that clears things up

That was very informative, thank you. I never knew that it wasn't against Habbo's T&Cs to trade furni for items in other games, but if it isn't against Habbo's T&Cs to trade furni onto other games then why does it break your T&Cs when it comes to selling your furni for cash?

I'm guessing it some legal mumbo-jumbo, as you could just trade your Habbo to Runescape, then sell it? But then again, that would make it Jagex's problem, not yours? :P

[Arch]

kinda off-topic but Wizzz why do you want to ruin something good? that will bring activity to the forum and,
about a section you barely use *REMOVED*

Edited by HotelUser (Forum Super Moderator): Please don't be rude to others thanks.

[Stephen]

hi redtiz can i have ur autograph


Edited by Catzsy (Forum Super Moderator):
Please stay on-topic. Thanks:)

[The Professor]

Hi all, happy new year and all that,

Real world trading (trading runescape items for anything else that isnt a runescape item) has always been banned by jagex, whats all this talk of "oh its only against the rules now because jagex altered a rule?" And HxF have always known this and always turned a blind eye to it with the disclaimer that Hx doesn't care if you get scammed. Why is this suddenly an issue now?

Sorry for the bump, its still kinda on the first page though :P

[nvrspk4]

People didn't like that, and also some thought that it violated the Habbo T&C which we don't turn a blind eye to.

Redtiz kindly clarified that it is not against the Habbo T&C and the matter was put to rest. Then you revived it :P