Ruby Thomas who kicked man to death jailed for.. 7 years

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1350793/Ruby-Thomas-kicked-gay-man-death-jailed-7-years.html

Former private school girl who kicked gay man to death in homophobic attack jailed for seven years


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/12/20/article-0-0C8209F8000005DC-264_233x606.jpg



A former public school girl who kicked and stamped on a gay civil servant during a deadly homophobic attack was jailed for seven years today for his manslaughter. Ruby Thomas, 19, hurled obscene abuse at 62-year-old Ian Baynham during the drink-fuelled assault in London's Trafalgar Square in September 2009.

Mr Baynham died 18 days later in hospital. Police found his blood smeared on Thomas's handbag and the ballet pumps she was wearing as she kicked him. The Old Bailey heard how she screamed 'f****** ******s', and smiled as she 'put the boot into' Mr Baynham after he was knocked to the ground by another teenager, Joel Alexander. Thomas's ex-boyfriend Declan Seavers told the court that the teenager, of Anerley, south east London, was 'not the type of girl' to have done it.

But jurors did not agree and convicted her of manslaughter, along with Alexander, 20, of Thornton Heath, south east London, at the end of their trial last month. Alexander was jailed for six years while 18-year-old Rachael Burke, of Upper Norwood, south east London, was given a two-year sentence after being found guilty of affray at an earlier trial. Judge Richard Hawkins increased Thomas's sentence from six years to seven years because of the homophobic nature of the attack. He said: 'This was a case of mindless drink-fuelled violence committed in public.'

7 years, the price British justice puts on life - I don't know whats more disgusting, the crime or the sentence.

Thoughts?

[Muct]

You put private school - and the article says public, jus' saying.

But yah LOL @ HER

[Jacob]

Kicked a man to death and only 7 years, oh. She's does look quite rough so i'm not surprised ;)

[Catzsy]

The jury convicted her of manslaughter so blame them not the British Justice system. I don't know why they did, though tbh on the face of it.

[Slowpoke]

Some people are just born evil

[ifuseekamy]

Who on earth were her supporters? Their sentences should all be triple that, they'll be out in half that time.

[alexxxxx]

You put private school - and the article says public, jus' saying.

But yah LOL @ HER

Public school = Private school.

And as it was manslaughter not murder, then it is unlikely to get a long sentence.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The jury convicted her of manslaughter so blame them not the British Justice system. I don't know why they did, though tbh on the face of it.

Guidelines are often issued on sentence lengths and the jury is part of the British justice system which is a shambles. To add to that, we do not have enough prison capacity to send people away for a longer period of time and judges and the police are often under pressure to minimise sentences as the prisons are on low capacity.. she will also most likely be let out early, with a tag. Under the last government mainly and this government now under Ken Clarke, the justice system has become a joke but its been an ongoing process for many decades. The kind of rhetoric that the two governments have spouted is shown and defeated here;



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl9l-mQJHV0


Ian Huntley is another example, a monster with an Xbox in a supposed prison.

[Eoin247]

Public school = Private school.

And as it was manslaughter not murder, then it is unlikely to get a long sentence.


Really? Here private schools are fee paying whilst public are run by the government and so are free.

Maybe she didn't mean to kill him, judging by the article. However nonetheless, she shouldn't have done what she did whether she intended to kill or not. A sentance which should have been doubled at minimum.

[Technologic]

Really? Here private schools are fee paying whilst public are run by the government and so are free.

Maybe she didn't mean to kill him, judging by the article. However nonetheless, she shouldn't have done what she did whether she intended to kill or not. A sentance which should have been doubled at minimum.

Private school = fee paying
Public school = ultra posh £20,000+ per annum fee paying
State school = free

and this is a joke, i find the sentences in this country to be a complete farce.

[Eoin247]

Private school = fee paying
Public school = ultra posh £20,000+ per annum fee paying
State school = free

and this is a joke, i find the sentences in this country to be a complete farce.

Ah ok, Here in Ireland we call just state schools public schools and all fee paying schools private.

[Catzsy]

Guidelines are often issued on sentence lengths and the jury is part of the British justice system which is a shambles. To add to that, we do not have enough prison capacity to send people away for a longer period of time and judges and the police are often under pressure to minimise sentences as the prisons are on low capacity.. she will also most likely be let out early, with a tag. Under the last government mainly and this government now under Ken Clarke, the justice system has become a joke but its been an ongoing process for many decades. The kind of rhetoric that the two governments have spouted is shown and defeated here;



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl9l-mQJHV0


Ian Huntley is another example, a monster with an Xbox in a supposed prison.

I am not saying I agree with the sentence but the jury prevails. I don't think they always get it right and this seems about right for a manslaughter charge. Maybe the prosecution will appeal about the sentence.

Also:

The judge blamed her for sparking the violence that led to Mr Baynham's death, although it was not her kicks that killed him.

It seems it was her co-defendant, Alexander who caused the brain injury and was given 6 years. Obviously not as newsworthy as this girl.

[GommeInc]

The jury convicted her of manslaughter so blame them not the British Justice system. I don't know why they did, though tbh on the face of it.
Manslaughter seems correct, assuming they only wanted to beat him rather than kill murder him. Not that it makes it any better. She looks a bit of a cow just by looking at the pictures of her :P

7 years doesn't seem much at all.

[ifuseekamy]

I suppose the shoe will be on the other foot though when she meets the prison dykes.

[FlyingJesus]

Manslaughter seems correct, assuming they only wanted to beat him rather than kill murder him

I had always assumed that attacking someone either with enough force or in a style that's obviously got a pretty high risk of death attached (which repeated kicks to the head would definitely cover) was generally approached as an attempted murder, and then it follows that if the victim dies it would be murder not manslaughter. Manslaughter assumes an accident or negligence of some sort - I can't see how hitting an old man to the ground and curbstomping him while screaming abuse is an accident

[GommeInc]

I had always assumed that attacking someone either with enough force or in a style that's obviously got a pretty high risk of death attached (which repeated kicks to the head would definitely cover) was generally approached as an attempted murder, and then it follows that if the victim dies it would be murder not manslaughter. Manslaughter assumes an accident or negligence of some sort - I can't see how hitting an old man to the ground and curbstomping him while screaming abuse is an accident
I believe they label it manslaughter when the offender was under the influence of alcohol, as mentioned by the "drink-fuelled assault" claim in the paper. So I guess by your definition, it comes under negligence as she shouldn't of been drinking in a public place and obviously shouldn't of attacked the man. That's how I've interpreted it at least :) She may of been above a certain level of alcohol suggesting she couldn't of been in total control of her actions.

EDIT: According to a few legal sites - "vehicular manslaughter" is when you kill someone while driving under the influence of alcohol, and "intoxication manslaughter" is when you kill under the influence of alcohol. There have been a few cases where someone has been killed by someone under the influence where they call it manslaughter :)

[ben]

thats bad

[FlyingJesus]

Well hot damn, next time I go out to murder I'm gonna take a bottle of wine with me

And yeah she's only actually gonna be inside for about 30 months or something because of how long the trial took... as if that actually means she's served her time somehow

[Nemo]

Oh god she's from upper norwood. Hey there nice area, how u doin

[GommeInc]

Well hot damn, next time I go out to murder I'm gonna take a bottle of wine with me

And yeah she's only actually gonna be inside for about 30 months or something because of how long the trial took... as if that actually means she's served her time somehow
Make sure to drink the contents <3

I'm not entirely sure why the trial period counts as part of the time served. Trials are being rushed through courts now :/

[Neversoft]

Wow, she's nineteen? Looks about 40 with a face like that.

[Johno]

What an absolute joke, it really saddens me that she only got seven years for taking someone's life. She'll be 26 when she gets out (providing she doesn't get out early, ha) and will still have the rest of her life.

[Jin]

I think it is ridiculous to blindly criticize the justice system without being fully aware of the facts...

This is a conviction of manslaughter, so yes there has been a homophobic assault and sadly a man did die from it but it is a step far from premeditated murder. There are people who are convicted of manslaughter for crashing their cars and killing someone.

Whilst I do agree that some sentences are a too lenient we can't go around giving long or life sentences here and there otherwise we will have to ask the Australians if we can have New South Wales back so we can use it as a penal colony again.

Our prisons are already hitting capacity which is why you see more and more suspended sentences and early releases.

Should we build more prisons so we can give longer sentences? If you reckon so then please tell me where the government should cut the money from education or healthcare?

7 years is a lot of time. No free contact with the outside world, only allowed 3 visitors in one week, very little personal possessions. Not to mention to have to deal with the psychological factors knowing you have killed a person and that society will refer to you as a murderer even if it wasn't your intention to kill in the first place.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I think it is ridiculous to blindly criticize the justice system without being fully aware of the facts...

This is a conviction of manslaughter, so yes there has been a homophobic assault and sadly a man did die from it but it is a step far from premeditated murder. There are people who are convicted of manslaughter for crashing their cars and killing someone.

A man died from it, a life was taken - whether or not it was premeditated doesn't make it that much more worse. It would be like saying, if I go to stab someone with a knife out of anger that I didn't expect them to die.


Whilst I do agree that some sentences are a too lenient we can't go around giving long or life sentences here and there otherwise we will have to ask the Australians if we can have New South Wales back so we can use it as a penal colony again.

Our prisons are already hitting capacity which is why you see more and more suspended sentences and early releases.

Or we could just build new prisons, there's plenty of land both in the countryside but as we do not want to build there we can simply build them in depopulated inner-city areas. Then ontop of that of course, there is the the idea of floating prisons which I find ridiculous as there is plenty of land left.

Although if land use really is an issue for you, I assume you would want immigration stopped completely?


Should we build more prisons so we can give longer sentences? If you reckon so then please tell me where the government should cut the money from education or healthcare?

Foreign aid alone is £11bn, direct payments to the European Union are £10bn/15bn - to name two prime examples. Then of course there is the massive public sector and all its quangos interferring where they are not needed.

This country in reality has plenty of money, just the government wastes it.


7 years is a lot of time. No free contact with the outside world, only allowed 3 visitors in one week, very little personal possessions. Not to mention to have to deal with the psychological factors knowing you have killed a person and that society will refer to you as a murderer even if it wasn't your intention to kill in the first place.

7 years is not a lot of time at all for taking the life of somebody. You have to remember these people are often scum, they do not think like you and me;- they do not value life nor do they value liberty. Prisons have drugs freely circulating, they are mostly comfortable with own clothes allowed, gyms, and televisions/xboxes and games.

[MrPinkPanther]

Although if land use really is an issue for you, I assume you would want immigration stopped completely
Oh god, now you've done it. Thanks a lot Jin.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Oh god, now you've done it. Thanks a lot Jin.

Well its true, a bigger population places more pressures on prisons, hospitals, schools and so on.

I don't want a blanket ban, but if its so much of an issue [space] then immigration is the number one issue.

[FlyingJesus]

This is a conviction of manslaughter, so yes there has been a homophobic assault and sadly a man did die from it but it is a step far from premeditated murder. There are people who are convicted of manslaughter for crashing their cars and killing someone.

Killing via a hot-blooded attack is still murder, not manslaughter. People who get manslaughter charges for car crashes do so because they (generally) didn't mean to kill anyone, they were just being reckless and fatally stupid. Stamping on someone's head is somewhat different, no matter how much you've drunk

[GommeInc]

Killing via a hot-blooded attack is still murder, not manslaughter. People who get manslaughter charges for car crashes do so because they (generally) didn't mean to kill anyone, they were just being reckless and fatally stupid. Stamping on someone's head is somewhat different, no matter how much you've drunk
Hmmm, debateable. If you're blind drunk then it's out of your control, but of course that in itself begs the question "why was she even drinking in public, and she did a pretty good job being completely drunk". In this case it seems like she wanted to attack the man, but finding out the border between intentionally wanting to kill the man or seriously injuring him makes the case all the more difficult to interpret. There seems to be evidence that she was "alive behind the eyes", seeing the images of her appearing in CCTV still images a few moments after the attack. There are so many contributing factors :/ Another one is the fact he died later in hospital, rather than immediately - not that it makes it anymore acceptable.