Why do so many threads in Feedback get closed?

[Pyroka]

Don't you think other members would like to give feedback on pressing issues, or did you do a survey on that and found out they didn't lol.

[Chippiewill]

I raised issues about it a few months ago and I was assure that this new management wouldn't do that and never would.

This is new labour all over again. It seems nice at the start, but soon Tony 'Garner' Blair will retire which will seem kinda ok, but then we'll find out that Gordon 'Hecktix' Brown has ruined our economy and we're four years away from getting David 'Hotel' Cameron who turns out to be only slightly better and eventually, but after twenty years of toil including Nigel 'Undertaker' Farage, we'll end up with Nick 'Flying' Griffin.

[GommeInc]

It is getting frustrating. They're feedback threads, you're not meant to close them :P This is why Undertaker got fed up and got banned from viewing the Feedback Forums :P

[Jordy]

The ******* nazis lol. Nah seriously I think it's only Jin doing it or maybe I only remember it when he does? Every decent feedback thread, Jin seems to just close. Mostly because he's quite obviously a control freak but anyway, it's his forum after all so let him do what he likes if it makes him sleep at night.

I apologise if MattGarner and Hecktix also close threads but I've never noticed them doing so tbh.

Edit: What a joke Pyroka has had his Habbox Feedback access removed for this thread (Along with -:Undertaker:- a few months back). Quite taken back by just how far you're going, have you been inspired by Mubarak, Jin?

[Jin]

Because ultimately we reach our conclusion. Whats the point in carrying it on.

At the end of the day we have the final say in what happens and I do think it's important people should be reminded of this as I sometimes feel that they forget this and expect us to basically do as we are ordered to.

[Hecktix]

General Management (or even moderation) will close threads in feedback when:

A) Staff are directly criticised or insulted for no reason (any threads in which staff are criticised fairly will be moved to staff complaints)
B) Threads have run their course and turn into users having a little ***** (i.e. the V6 thread, Pyroka V Hoteluser (should have been closed at this point) and then general moaning about management when really the thread had been sorted) - On the other hand I have no issues with leaving threads open after the issue has been sorted to get other users feedback but this must be within the rules, unlike the v6 thread
C) If the thread being made is unfair on others
D) If the thread is one of those feedback threads people speak of that get posted "monthly" - i.e. too often therefore can be closed and a link can be placed to the old one as our views won't have changed in such little time.

If you have any complaints about threads closed by moderation please contact Nicola or if it's General Management, Jin MattG and myself will happily take complaints.

[GommeInc]

General Management (or even moderation) will close threads in feedback when:

A) Staff are directly criticised or insulted for no reason (any threads in which staff are criticised fairly will be moved to staff complaints)
B) Threads have run their course and turn into users having a little ***** (i.e. the V6 thread, Pyroka V Hoteluser (should have been closed at this point) and then general moaning about management when really the thread had been sorted) - On the other hand I have no issues with leaving threads open after the issue has been sorted to get other users feedback but this must be within the rules, unlike the v6 thread
C) If the thread being made is unfair on others
D) If the thread is one of those feedback threads people speak of that get posted "monthly" - i.e. too often therefore can be closed and a link can be placed to the old one as our views won't have changed in such little time.

If you have any complaints about threads closed by moderation please contact Nicola or if it's General Management, Jin MattG and myself will happily take complaints.
Feedback is a type of criticism, and some threads do tend to be still in the midst of discussion when they are closed :)

[Chippiewill]

-blah blah blah-

I think the V6 thread was just becoming productive, really starting to pick out the flaws in habbox management, the weak links etc.

[Jin]

To be fair people like pyroka have lost their right to the feedback forum as they continually provoke arguments. Other people are heading in a similar direction.

[GommeInc]

To be fair people like pyroka have lost their right to the feedback forum as they continually provoke arguments.
He is allowed to argue his point, and he was being slandered. Removing that right just seems to be an abuse of power and is setting a terrible precedent - are you solving a problem, or only making it worse? This thread for instance, is a valid one as it does come up quite often.

[HotelUser]

He is allowed to argue his point, and he was being slandered. Removing that right just seems to be an abuse of power and is setting a terrible precedent - are you solving a problem, or only making it worse? This thread for instance, is a valid one as it does come up quite often.

He brought up complaints in that thread which targeted other staff (Joe).

[Chippiewill]

At the end of the day we have the final say in what happens and I do think it's important people should be reminded of this as I sometimes feel that they forget this and expect us to basically do as we are ordered to.
I don't want to sound condescending but frankly it's only your final say to a certain extent. You can't just ignore your users, they'll just leave.

[Slowpoke]

To be fair people like pyroka have lost their right to the feedback forum as they continually provoke arguments. Other people are heading in a similar direction.

Is it permanent?

[FlyingJesus]

Despite not actually getting a proper answer in the recent rep power thread, I don't think threads are unnecessarily closed on a regular basis, only when there's really no need for the thread to still be open. People get a bit heated about it if they're in the middle of some big fight that they want to continue but obviously this isn't the place for that sort of thing, hence most of the fallout after feedback bust-ups landing in spam.

Also why am I being compared to Nick Griffin I find that somewhat insulting

Also x2 it makes sense to not let Fry post his nonsense here, he only wants to stir things up and try being a ReBeL here because no-one at uni will talk to him

[GommeInc]

He brought up complaints in that thread which targeted other staff (Joe).
And General Management were targetting ex-staff members / members and were verging the lines of cyber bullying. It does take two to tango, and both sides got pretty high marks when it came to it. The last few days have been a right shambles on both sides.

[Chippiewill]

Also why am I being compared to Nick Griffin I find that somewhat insulting
Yeah, I was kinda thinking of some Habbox revolutionist and you came to mind. I can change it to mentor or JB if you want or generally anyone.

[Slowpoke]

And General Management were targetting ex-staff members / members and were verging the lines of cyber bullying. It does take two to tango, and both sides got pretty high marks when it came to it. The last few days have been a right shambles on both sides.

Yeah, I've noticed quite a lot of "heated discussion" that has gotten out of hand going on in here during the past few days

Edit: Seems Jordy has been cautioned...

[Jin]

Is it permanent?

No none of these things are ever permanent. If we believe someone shouldn't be allowed to post in a forum permanently then that would mean they should be banned.


Yeah, I've noticed quite a lot of "heated discussion" that has gotten out of hand going on in here during the past few days

Edit: Seems Jordy has been cautioned...

A lot of these seem to be fuelled by personal disagreements.

[Hecktix]

I think the V6 thread was just becoming productive, really starting to pick out the flaws in habbox management, the weak links etc.

It isn't your place to do this really, the v6 thread had run it's course. You seem to think you own Habbox, you don't.

[Slowpoke]

A lot of these seem to be fuelled by personal disagreements.

Indeed, everyone needs to remember that it is just a forum at the end of the day. The V6 thread got way out of hand, as did the rep thread


It isn't your place to do this really, the v6 thread had run it's course. You seem to think you own Habbox, you don't.

I've got a lot of respect for you Oli but you sometimes your tone can feel rather intimidating. Rise above it :P

[Chippiewill]

It isn't your place to do this really, the v6 thread had run it's course. You seem to think you own Habbox, you don't.

Just because a thread has changed topic does not mean it 'had run it's course' and just because it's discussing the way you handle things doesn't mean it isn't my place.

[Hecktix]

Just because a thread has changed topic does not mean it 'had run it's course' and just because it's discussing the way you handle things doesn't mean it isn't my place.

It isn't your place, if you have complaints about us send them to Jin. The thread had run it's course and the topic had been discussed. You seem to think you're above people, you aren't.

[GommeInc]

"Run its course" is misleading, as it suggests an outcome had come out of it, yet we never really got an answer in the rep one. Many members pointed out that the change is unnecessary as it seems to suggest we can pointless rep people now, rather than promote repping new and old users when they help out or made a decent post. Not forgetting that apparently new members notice rep as the first thing they see when they join the forum, which seems somewhat illogical - how do you get those statistics, and why would they care in the first place? :P

[Chippiewill]

It isn't your place, if you have complaints about us send them to Jin. The thread had run it's course and the topic had been discussed. You seem to think you're above people, you aren't.
To be honest, you're not even showing any improvement over earlier, the way you talk to users isn't exactly professional which would be expected at most places from a manager.

[Hecktix]

To be honest, you're not even showing any improvement over earlier, the way you talk to users isn't exactly professional which would be expected at most places from a manager.

I'll talk to you with respect when you talk to us with respect, the way you talk to us is appalling, like I have said it's as if you own the place.

[Chippiewill]

I'll talk to you with respect when you talk to us with respect, the way you talk to us is appalling, like I have said it's as if you own the place.Wow, do you think everyone is going to treat you like a king in life or just when you think you're in a position of power. I get blocked out of feedback for being disrespectful to staff? You should be banned for talking to users in a shoddy way.

[Hecktix]

Wow, do you think everyone is going to treat you like a king in life or just when you think you're in a position of power. I get blocked out of feedback for being disrespectful to staff? You should be banned for talking to users in a shoddy way.

I don't talk to many users in a shoddy way but I'll talk to you in a shoddy way because every feedback thread you make you talk to us like you're in charge of us, sorry mate but that's not the case here.

[Chippiewill]

I don't talk to many users in a shoddy way but I'll talk to you in a shoddy way because every feedback thread you make you talk to us like you're in charge of us, sorry mate but that's not the case here.
Oh hey, sorry for suggestions sounding like I'm giving you orders?

At the moment your grave in this thread is as deep as mine, get out whilst you still can.

[Jin]

Nope but when people stop talking to us with the basic level of respect one human being owes another that is the point I start taking action against their accounts.

Whether thats banning them from a forum or banning their accounts. At the end of the day nobody deserves to take your ****. So really I don't blame Oli. I blame you. I think you think of yourself above all other members.

[GommeInc]

"Run its course" is misleading, as it suggests an outcome had come out of it, yet we never really got an answer in the rep one. Many members pointed out that the change is unnecessary as it seems to suggest we can pointless rep people now, rather than promote repping new and old users when they help out or made a decent post. Not forgetting that apparently new members notice rep as the first thing they see when they join the forum, which seems somewhat illogical - how do you get those statistics, and why would they care in the first place? :P

^ Adding to that. Most of the posts in that thread were fine. There was only one wittering person who was ruining it. Interestingly, constructive posts like mine seem ignored while posts coming from members causing friction get a bit too much attention :P

[Hecktix]

Oh hey, sorry for suggestions sounding like I'm giving you orders?

At the moment your grave in this thread is as deep as mine, get out whilst you still can.

I'm going nowhere mate, I've done a lot for Habbox to get into this position and I'm not going to waste it. You think any suggestion you make must be listened to by management and if we don't listen you kick off, if you act like that in life off this forum then good luck to you 'cause you're gonna get nowhere.

---------- Post added 02-02-2011 at 12:37 AM ----------


^ Adding to that. Most of the posts in that thread were fine. There was only one wittering person who was ruining it. Interestingly, constructive posts like mine seem ignored while posts coming from members causing friction get a bit too much attention :P

I apologise for missing your post Gomme, when members cause friction it tends to be those who get replies as they seem to do everything to grasp our attention their way and unfortunately it works. In regards to the rep thread being closed, I imagine Jin closed it because he wasn't going to change his mind and didn't want users to waste their time replying.

[Chippiewill]

You think any suggestion you make must be listened to by management and if we don't listen you kick off,
No, but it's incredibly annoying when you don't acknowledge the suggestion and give a reason for rejecting it.

[HotelUser]

Just because a thread has changed topic does not mean it 'had run it's course' and just because it's discussing the way you handle things doesn't mean it isn't my place.

I think the reason the V6 thread might have given off such a hostile impression was that it really did have so much misguided conversation and criticisms based off rumours even months old in some places or originating from people who really only know small fragments of what's going on. It would have really only been prominent if you'd known the full story behind what had/has happened with version six and as you could imagine it's quite frustrating - we want to to release it as fast as we can, and with the best quality too.

[Jin]

No, but it's incredibly annoying when you don't acknowledge the suggestion and give a reason for rejecting it.
Actually I have to agree with Oli, it seems that its always about your opinion and it seems you become very sensitive if we disagree with it.

[Slowpoke]

No, but it's incredibly annoying when you don't acknowledge the suggestion and give a reason for rejecting it.

To be fair, they don't have to give reasons every single time. It doesn't happen in the real world. A lot of members seem to be over-sensitive at the moment

[GommeInc]

I apologise for missing your post Gomme, when members cause friction it tends to be those who get replies as they seem to do everything to grasp our attention their way and unfortunately it works. In regards to the rep thread being closed, I imagine Jin closed it because he wasn't going to change his mind and didn't want users to waste their time replying.
But as a feedback thread it shouldn't be closed when there is no appropriate answer. It's common courtesy to give an answer and result - it does wonders for staff-customer relations, or in this cases member-staff relations.

[Hecktix]

No, but it's incredibly annoying when you don't acknowledge the suggestion and give a reason for rejecting it.

We don't have to give you reasons, this isn't a democracy, we could say no because we simply don't like it. We do what is best for Habbox. I'm not here for you to like me, I couldn't care what anybody thinks about me apart from my colleagues and those in charge of me. Myself, Matt and other General Managers authorise changes to this organisation based on what we believe is best for this organisation and if we don't think your suggestions will be beneficial we will not take them on and we don't need to justify this, as we're the management - if this site was run in a different way this would be entirely different but it's not. Habbox listens to a lot of user feedback (moreso in the last 18 months) and in some ways this has shot us in the foot by making users like you think you rule the place.

Gomme, if you check through feedback most threads aren't closed if they haven't been answered (unless they have already been answered in different threads recently).

[Slowpoke]

But as a feedback thread it shouldn't be closed when there is no appropriate answer

This however, I do agree with

[Jin]

But as a feedback thread it shouldn't be closed when there is no appropriate answer. It's common courtesy to give an answer and result - it does wonders for staff-customer relations, or in this cases member-staff relations.

What you deem appropriate isn't really the question here?

In the rep thread people asked why admins have 50 rep power.

Lets take a step back from how trivial this matter is in the first place.

I quite clearly answered that question, I quite clearly answered why matt and oli said what they did, I quite clearly stated I wasn't going to change it.

What more is there to say in that thread? 9 pages of abuse and insults?

[Hecktix]

Sorry for the movement of this thread, it was moved by someone who wasn't aware only the thread starter could reply!

[Jin]

Sorry Completely forgot only thread starter and staff could reply in the questions forum. My bad.

[GommeInc]

What you deem appropriate isn't really the question here?

In the rep thread people asked why admins have 50 rep power.

Lets take a step back from how trivial this matter is in the first place.

I quite clearly answered that question, I quite clearly answered why matt and oli said what they did, I quite clearly stated I wasn't going to change it.

What more is there to say in that thread? 9 pages of abuse and insults?
Well where to begin? :P Quite a few of us noticed huge flaws in the idea.

- New members not caring about how much rep an admin gets.
- The idea that current members are incapable of repping new members.
- The idea that admins are more than likely "pointless" repping new members, as suggested by a few people in that thread. New members don't need to be repped by just admins, especially ones with huge rep powers. It kinda comes off as counter-productive seeing as current members are more than capable, and have more of a say on the reputation of a another member - we have to put up with them anyway :P
- The origins of the idea.
- Why it's suddenly become an issue.

You've got to remember you're running a forum aimed at people around the same age as you, so they're just as smart/dumb (whatever way you want to see it) so their say is just as powerful as yours, or the ideas they come up with counter your claims. Giving reasons tend to help, especially if people feel so strongly about it. Afterall, you may own the forum but a forum is useless if you've got bickering members and staff :P So it's understandable if people get pee'd off because it comes off as belittling, especially when you don't explain it to them at their level.


Sorry Completely forgot only thread starter and staff could reply in the questions forum. My bad.
It reminds me of the complaints forum which kind of has the same use as the Queries/Questions forums, but that's another discussion entirely :P

[Hecktix]

Can I just highlight that we have no problems with the way in which most members post in these feedback forums, however if constantly post negatively in these forums without real reason (i.e. moaning because we said no to your idea) then it will give us a negative view of you. Some members do this permanently and never really bring any benefit to the site, therefore things like tonight happen and I will be honest with the users like chippiewill as I'm not here to be liked I'm here to keep this site running. This user is the only user I have found to act in feedback this way permanently, all other uses including those that can behave in this manner occasionally (yes, you Dom :P) also contribute to Habbox in a positive way and your feedback is appreciated.

[Jin]

- New members not caring about how much rep an admin gets.
- The idea that current members are incapable of repping new members.
- The idea that admins are more than likely "pointless" repping new members, as suggested by a few people in that thread. New members don't need to be repped by just admins, especially ones with huge rep powers. It kinda comes off as counter-productive seeing as current members are more than capable, and have more of a say on the reputation of a another member - we have to put up with them anyway :P
- The origins of the idea.
- Why it's suddenly become an issue.


Okay,

- It doesn't matter to me about whether new members know what rep power admins have, this to me seems like a obsession of older members.
- If current members rep posts that are worth repping good on them.
- If we were going to pointlessly rep then why wouldn't we save ourselves the trouble and just bump up the new registration default rep?
- Current members have equal opinion on new members, (you have no say as you are not above new members). Admins also do like to use this forum also we aren't just members of staff and if we feel that posts deserve +repping then they will receive a +rep.
- You will have to explain that out.
- Because there is a group of people that seem to think that they are the big I am on this forum and frankly it is a bit annoying to see how some new members are spoken to on this forum. It also isn't fair on users that actually earn their plus rep as oppose to get it because of various "rep backs" which I must admit is pretty desperate.

These were the reasons it was introduced to new members, it doesn't mean we will exclusively rep new members. Just the other day I +repped iJoe for making a good contribution to a thread that a less experienced user created in the technology forums. I felt that he deserved it because he gave good clear answers without belittling the member nor making fun of how basic the question was.

Prior to the change, I minus repped a current member with high rep because they basically decided to be the most unhelpful human being in a similar thread and gave a lecture on computer terminology and then didn't bother to help the person with their issue afterwards.

[GommeInc]

Okay,

- It doesn't matter to me about whether new members know what rep power admins have, this to me seems like a obsession of older members.
- If current members rep posts that are worth repping good on them.
- If we were going to pointlessly rep then why wouldn't we save ourselves the trouble and just bump up the new registration default rep?
- Current members have equal opinion on new members, (you have no say as you are not above new members). Admins also do like to use this forum also we aren't just members of staff and if we feel that posts deserve +repping then they will receive a +rep.
- You will have to explain that out.
- Because there is a group of people that seem to think that they are the big I am on this forum and frankly it is a bit annoying to see how some new members are spoken to on this forum. It also isn't fair on users that actually earn their plus rep as oppose to get it because of various "rep backs" which I must admit is pretty desperate.

These were the reasons it was introduced to new members, it doesn't mean we will exclusively rep new members. Just the other day I +repped iJoe for making a good contribution to a thread that a less experienced user created in the technology forums. I felt that he deserved it because he gave good clear answers without belittling the member nor making fun of how basic the question was.

Prior to the change, I minus repped a current member with high rep because they basically decided to be the most unhelpful human being in a similar thread and gave a lecture on computer terminology and then didn't bother to help the person with their issue afterwards.
Right, so that answers points 1, 2 and 3 which went unanswered :)

Point 4 - Admins previously had 20 or 25 rep power which was more than adequate. 50 does seem like overkill which is what many members were saying (or from I gather, concerned about) in the other thread and why they were reacting to the change.
Point 5 (origins of the idea) was sort of answered in your point 6.

Point 6 - But do you not think it is a bit wrong to hike your rep power up to 50 to attack the users who have over 20 rep power, when members who have low rep (10 - 15 for example, as a ball park figure) are going to lose a lot of rep in the process? Rep is just to convey your opinion on a post (anonymously or not), rather than power, or that's what you're meant to make it look like. It does seem like the 50 rep power is there to attack than to be of any use, or to come off as the "ultimate" powers of the forum, when it's never been an issue before. -25 or +25 is still quite a lot of rep points in any respect, 50 seems like quite a lot, especially when you appear to be repping a lot of members yourself :P

EDIT: I really do need to sort this keyboard out :/

[Jin]

Okay then can you please rephrase any points that you feel are unanswered as an actual question instead of a statement as I can only do my best at guessing what the question within the statement is.

and no, because I don't see why it makes so much difference to peoples lives, we very rarely -rep, people have to make a really really bad post to deserve -rep.

[GommeInc]

Okay then can you please rephrase any points that you feel are unanswered as an actual question instead of a statement as I can only do my best at guessing what the question within the statement is.

and no, because I don't see why it makes so much difference to peoples lives, we very rarely -rep, people have to make a really really bad post to deserve -rep.
Which ones did you not understand? :S You answered 1 to 3, as they were ones that were hidden under the rubble and went unanswered - they're fine now. The other points that concern members are any relating to why you need 50 in the first place, especially when many members have "earned" their rep. I believe it was FlyingJesus who said "reputation doesn't need to have a point", and if a member has given a "pointless" rep then it reflects the attitudes and thoughts of members of the forum. There doesn't have to be a written reason for each action afterall.

It does seem the 50 rep is there just to benefit and make the admin voice heard, when it's not any louder than any other members voice :P

[FlyingJesus]

There's still not really any statement as to why this change was necessary - you can ask why it makes a difference to us all you like but that's not an answer. As I said before, if you just want to have the bigger number then I would honestly see that as a valid reason as you are the admins and are therefore entitled to whatever bonuses you want really, but so far there hasn't actually been a reason put forth as to why this change was seen as necessary other than so that you give a bigger boost to those you rep, which as previously mentioned undermines the judgement of the community as to whom is seen as a valuable contributor, and indicates that somehow your opinions are worth more than anyone elses

[Jin]

Then in which case why don't we disable the reputation system if it isn't performing its intended purpose? The rep system is suppose to be an indicator as to someone's character not popularity on a forum. Essentially these should be earned for making good posts which people agree with or have found useful, not because someone has been repping people for posts consisting of "LOL's" in the spam forum and then receiving rep backs in return.

If that is what the community believes what rep is then I suppose the community won't mind if I reset the scores to 0, start new members with 30,000 points or even start offering managers 1000 points a month to go along with their forum vip.

[GommeInc]

Then in which case why don't we disable the reputation system if it isn't performing its intended purpose? The rep system is suppose to be an indicator as to someone's character not popularity on a forum. Essentially these should be earned for making good posts which people agree with or have found useful, not because someone has been repping people for posts consisting of "LOL's" in the spam forum and then receiving rep backs in return.

If that is what the community believes what rep is then I suppose the community won't mind if I reset the scores to 0, start new members with 30,000 points or even start offering managers 1000 points a month to go along with their forum vip.
But who sets the purpose of the rep system? Management could but as with all systems and features they change to the requirements of the userbase. As the system is not broken nor had any problems, the changes implemented today seem to of come from no where. In some respects, the rep system does indicate a user's personality and character, it's why they are popular in the first place :P Going through the list of members with high rep, they've well and truely earned it as they're important members of the community - Neversoft, always making useful posts and mixes in well with the community. FlyingJesus, a respected member of the community who gets on well with many, as was --ss-- and I assume hysteria is popular too (although I literally have no idea what his previous forum names are). So I think these people have earned their rep, they have colourful characters and are respected on the forum.

[Jin]

On second thought I think I might implement some of those ideas.

Set admin rep lower because then we won't have to hold back so much on -repping and also we don't need to spread anyway.

Give management rep points for their dedication as they do deserve it.

Increase newly registered rep points.

Thanks FJ

[FlyingJesus]

Then in which case why don't we disable the reputation system if it isn't performing its intended purpose? The rep system is suppose to be an indicator as to someone's character not popularity on a forum. Essentially these should be earned for making good posts which people agree with or have found useful, not because someone has been repping people for posts consisting of "LOL's" in the spam forum and then receiving rep backs in return.

If that is what the community believes what rep is then I suppose the community won't mind if I reset the scores to 0, start new members with 30,000 points or even start offering managers 1000 points a month to go along with their forum vip.

Ok so not only does that post still not answer the question, it completely voids the entire point of a community as opposed to a help forum. I'm not sure if you're aware of the definition of reputation but it does not only allude to a person's ability to answer a question clinically, and if you think providing entertainment and forming friendships isn't worthy of any recognition then I don't see why you want to run a site based around such things. I'm not sure where you get the idea that most reps are "rep backs", unless there's some secret ring of dedicated reppers that I'm not aware of, and your last paragraph is utter nonsense considering those terms would have nothing to do with popularity at all, so it doesn't fit with your (wrong) allegations.


On second thought I think I might implement some of those ideas.

Set admin rep lower because then we won't have to hold back so much on -repping and also we don't need to spread anyway.

Give management rep points for their dedication as they do deserve it.

Increase newly registered rep points.

Thanks FJ

Well I haven't actually written about any of those points so the thanks is undeserved, I believe you've gotten those excerpts from posts by other people. I'm really not asking much, all I wanted was to know the reason that you increased the rep power for admins. I'm not attacking you or being rude or sarcastic about anything, I just asked a very simple question which you don't seem to want to answer, even though I've said over and over that I'd be happy with even a basic "because I felt like it".

[Jin]

Holy crap dude, I have given my answer like 5 times now in 2 different threads. I think you dont want to accept it as my answer. I can't repeat myself any more than I have done as it would be a complete waste of my time.

Anyway sod it, I just have to accept that the rep system is incredibly flawed and people like it that way and if you can't beat them, join them.

I guess the only way to deal with the flawed system would be to use rep as a way of rewarding people.

[buttons]

On second thought I think I might implement some of those ideas.

Set admin rep lower because then we won't have to hold back so much on -repping and also we don't need to spread anyway.

Give management rep points for their dedication as they do deserve it

Thanks FJ
lol you are so childish, why is it easier to get banned for disagreeing with management than it is to troll and bully someone? as for your staff issuing rep responsibily, i think not. doesn't explain how on two seperate occasions i was -repped twice in a row by an admin on personal grounds, does it? :?

[Stephen]

hxf is corrupt

elect me as your new manager or become like egypt

[nvrspk4]

LOVELY CONSTRUCTIVE THREAD EVERYBODY.

Chippiewill, please get off your bloody high horse. The argument is consistently used that the management has to be responsible to its users or they will all desert the management, and it has yet to happen that the userbase has entirely deserted the forum. What you, and those who have used this argument before you, fail to recognize is the issue you perceive as management being unresponsive to a userbase is an issue that is actually more localized to you and another group of people. There is a much larger silent majority which either doesn't really care about the issue, or realizes that if they discuss the issue in a rational and respectful way, they will get responses from General Management.

I think the majority of closed threads have valid reasoning, I see the point in one or two of the most recent threads but I'd take a step out to say that though one or two threads may have been closed prematurely it's unfair to generalize and speak about the fact that General Management have been closing "a lot of threads" when most have been fair. With regards to the rep thread specifically, I think it was a bit of frustration as management pretty clearly explained themselves and the members chose to ignore that explanation, then an update was offered, and again ignored. Some members did respond to the new explanation but many others didn't. Perhaps it was not the best idea to close the thread but from what I can see management were taking quite a few unfair lumps, both in that thread and this, so I can understand where they were coming from.

[Inseriousity.]

Closed threads don't just happen in feedback :(

Anyway, if management are so trigger-happy banning members from feedback, the whole "to stop arguments" reason is kinda flawed. As GommeInc said, he was posting constructive arguments in that thread. If the users who were arguing (and yes it does take two to tango) were banned from the feedback forum, perhaps the thread will go back to being constructive. Tbh, I don't really think members should be banned for feedback. It's the feedback forum and debate can cause friction (no sexual innunendo intended, honest).

On top of that, threads can often go from one topic to another. I don't think threads should be closed for this either as often constructive feedback can be taken from there. For example, in December 2009, a thread about Habbox in general ended up focusing on the competitions department but not until the 6th page or something! While the majority of it was non-constructive, reading between the lines, you can often find a lot of constructive suggestions that could be used.

PS. I do not want a higher rep just because I'm management. I'll work my way up like everyone else. :)

[Hayleigh]

You can still bring up a point without centring it on another person. Feedback is generally for things that would mean the advancing of the site , but surely then there is no need to criticize either staff or members of the forum (which is probably why the threads get closed, generally ********). I do agree that both sides need to be fair then and the whole v6 thing didn't need to attack individuals if i'm honest, and the answers could have been kept short and sweet. If you wanted to continue to prove a point in the feedback forum (considering its not targeting other members or being rude) you could make a new thread and the worst that could happen would be it being closed. If you want to target staff there is a private complaints section -_-
To conclude feedback threads are 90% of the time closed either because they are no longer needed and gm's have seen them and a conclusion has been reached or to stop ********.Thread's arent usually deleted you can still see as can (a)gm's the constructive feedback so that is never lost.

[Catzsy]

LOVELY CONSTRUCTIVE THREAD EVERYBODY.

Chippiewill, please get off your bloody high horse. The argument is consistently used that the management has to be responsible to its users or they will all desert the management, and it has yet to happen that the userbase has entirely deserted the forum. What you, and those who have used this argument before you, fail to recognize is the issue you perceive as management being unresponsive to a userbase is an issue that is actually more localized to you and another group of people. There is a much larger silent majority which either doesn't really care about the issue, or realizes that if they discuss the issue in a rational and respectful way, they will get responses from General Management.

I think the majority of closed threads have valid reasoning, I see the point in one or two of the most recent threads but I'd take a step out to say that though one or two threads may have been closed prematurely it's unfair to generalize and speak about the fact that General Management have been closing "a lot of threads" when most have been fair. With regards to the rep thread specifically, I think it was a bit of frustration as management pretty clearly explained themselves and the members chose to ignore that explanation, then an update was offered, and again ignored. Some members did respond to the new explanation but many others didn't. Perhaps it was not the best idea to close the thread but from what I can see management were taking quite a few unfair lumps, both in that thread and this, so I can understand where they were coming from.




You can still bring up a point without centring it on another person. Feedback is generally for things that would mean the advancing of the site , but surely then there is no need to criticize either staff or members of the forum (which is probably why the threads get closed, generally ********). I do agree that both sides need to be fair then and the whole v6 thing didn't need to attack individuals if i'm honest, and the answers could have been kept short and sweet. If you wanted to continue to prove a point in the feedback forum (considering its not targeting other members or being rude) you could make a new thread and the worst that could happen would be it being closed. If you want to target staff there is a private complaints section -_-
To conclude feedback threads are 90% of the time closed either because they are no longer needed and gm's have seen them and a conclusion has been reached or to stop ********.Thread's arent usually deleted you can still see as can (a)gm's the constructive feedback so that is never lost.

Nails hit on the head there. When it remains objective it's fine but when it falls into subjectivity with wild accusations and basically personal insults then it's time to close it as it fails to realistically get any futher forward with reasoned argument.

[Hecktix]

I am glad to see the administrative rep has been reduced to 20 points, this is what I feel a fairer amount although I'd be quite happy to not have admin rep.

In terms of the bans from this forum in the last night, I do not agree with and it is rare for a member to be banned from the feedback forum unless they are quite clearly causing trouble.

[Andii]

ok well this is what i think. . . .


you open a feedback thread for people to leave their feedback . . .yea thats ok but still some members chose to go OTT on the hole thing. these threads should be closed. . but ones that actually give a good feedback and ideas to the forum get banned which i think is pointless. . . . what you need to do is sort this out. . . like close the pointless threads that make no sence but not close the threads that people may have an interest in. . . as i have seen a few of these happen

[RandomManJay]

That's the difficulty with these threads. There will always be those who are willing to give good suggestions which are overshadowed by those with an inflated ego. And when these threads get closed, its the good user's loss as well as the forum's cause their suggestions haven't been heard :(.


ok well this is what i think. . . .


you open a feedback thread for people to leave their feedback . . .yea thats ok but still some members chose to go OTT on the hole thing. these threads should be closed. . but ones that actually give a good feedback and ideas to the forum get banned which i think is pointless. . . . what you need to do is sort this out. . . like close the pointless threads that make no sence but not close the threads that people may have an interest in. . . as i have seen a few of these happen

[Hecktix]

That's the difficulty with these threads. There will always be those who are willing to give good suggestions which are overshadowed by those with an inflated ego. And when these threads get closed, its the good user's loss as well as the forum's cause their suggestions haven't been heard :(.

Unfortunately that is how feedback on this forum has worked for a long time, however users with good suggestions who aren't replying with their inflated egos are welcome to make new threads, I can't however promise they won't get hijacked either.

[Andii]

That's the difficulty with these threads. There will always be those who are willing to give good suggestions which are overshadowed by those with an inflated ego. And when these threads get closed, its the good user's loss as well as the forum's cause their suggestions haven't been heard :(.


agreed.. . . i remember the first time i gave a bad point about the forum i felt bad because my thread got closed with in 20minutes :O :O :O

[AgnesIO]

It isn't your place to do this really, the v6 thread had run it's course. You seem to think you own Habbox, you don't.

I agree with a fair amount you say, but without trying to cause arguments, you normally seem like you own the website. You own the same amount of Habbox as Chippiewill.

[HotelUser]

I agree with a fair amount you say, but without trying to cause arguments, you normally seem like you own the website. You own the same amount of Habbox as Chippiewill.

Does that mean he should only put as much effort in as Chippiewill does? If Oli did that there would be a lot more things to complain about other than V6. It's appropriate that general management assume an authoritative behaviour in some situations. It's usually when they're incapable of doing this that they're considered ill-suited for the job.

[Catzsy]

I agree with a fair amount you say, but without trying to cause arguments, you normally seem like you own the website. You own the same amount of Habbox as Chippiewill.

Tbf he is part of the senior management, Dom, appointed by the owner so he has a fair say in how Habbox works. If other members want to contribute as well they can always apply to work for Habbox and work their way up. :)

[Hecktix]

I agree with a fair amount you say, but without trying to cause arguments, you normally seem like you own the website. You own the same amount of Habbox as Chippiewill.


Does that mean he should only put as much effort in as Chippiewill does? If Oli did that there would be a lot more things to complain about other than V6. It's appropriate that general management assume an authoritative behaviour in some situations. It's usually when they're incapable of doing this that they're considered ill-suited for the job.

I run this website along with the team of other General Managers on behalf of the Habbox Owners.

[AgnesIO]

However, you are technically the Assistant General Manager of Staff. I believe you are sometimes to powerful and speak too people as if you are bigger than them. Obviously you are agm of staff, but I don't think users that argue with you are always the ones to blame (well take the entire blame anyway).

Again, I am not doubting your skills to be a agm, but I am pointing out you do not actually OWN any of habbox

[Hecktix]

However, you are technically the Assistant General Manager of Staff. I believe you are sometimes to powerful and speak too people as if you are bigger than them. Obviously you are agm of staff, but I don't think users that argue with you are always the ones to blame (well take the entire blame anyway).

Again, I am not doubting your skills to be a agm, but I am pointing out you do not actually OWN any of habbox

As the Assistant General Manager (Staff) it is my job to manage the Habbox complaints systems appropriately, it is also my job as AGM (Staff) to ensure feedback for the forum (and any other department I may be involved in at the time as this varies depending where MG the other AGMs and Jin want me working) is responded to appropriately, all on behalf of xxMATTGxx and Jin. Likewise for any other Assistant General Manager in terms of their departments and of course the same is said all round for MG.

[FlyingJesus]

A floor manager at Sainsbury's doesn't OWN the shop but that has no bearing on their superiority over customers when it comes to the running of the place

[AgnesIO]

As the Assistant General Manager (Staff) it is my job to manage the Habbox complaints systems appropriately, it is also my job as AGM (Staff) to ensure feedback for the forum (and any other department I may be involved in at the time as this varies depending where MG the other AGMs and Jin want me working) is responded to appropriately, all on behalf of xxMATTGxx and Jin. Likewise for any other Assistant General Manager in terms of their departments and of course the same is said all round for MG.

Oli, I never questioned what your job role is, I just think you sometimes talk for other members of staff when it isn't your role to do so.

ON THE OTHER HAND; it is superb that you do actually reply to feedback threads, and giving you credit it, you are exceptionally good at answering threads quickly

[Hecktix]

Oli, I never questioned what your job role is, I just think you sometimes talk for other members of staff when it isn't your role to do so.

ON THE OTHER HAND; it is superb that you do actually reply to feedback threads, and giving you credit it, you are exceptionally good at answering threads quickly

I thank you for your positive comments Dom :) However, what I reply to will usually depend upon where Jin/Matt have asked me to work as the job varies, for instance recently I've had to be quite involved in HabboxLive with Matt and Martin to make necessary changes in search for improvement. I do what Jin/Matt ask/expect me to do, even if it seems i'm an all round dogs body :P

[AgnesIO]

A floor manager at Sainsbury's doesn't OWN the shop but that has no bearing on their superiority over customers when it comes to the running of the place

I never questioned this FJ

[GommeInc]

Nice to see rep has been reduced to a fairer limit. It's nice to know that the concerns were listened to and changed. Argument over :P

[Robbie]

Threads get closed because management don't like being disagreed with and ram their points down your throat and lock the thread and any threads on the same subject because they don't want to be proven wrong. Of course, GM aren't going to say that.

The excuse of people 'insulting' - well, erm, isn't that what happens in an argument usually? If they're getting too heated, warn or infract them, ban them from feedback for a couple of hours or something, but closing the thread is completely counter-productive and just winds people up more, and those that want an argument or discussion with other members and with management can't do because management can't control a few members who get a bit personal.

To me this comes down to the 'over-protectiveness' of Habbox which I have seen as a problem for a while. Who cares if people are arguing their point fairly, that's what the feedback forum is for, to give feedback... Again, warn or infract posts that get personal. I didn't see anything too bad with the v6 thread. People are obviously and rightly annoyed that we've not had the new site we've been promised since like Summer 08?

As a Site Coder, I'd see management post about how much "progress" was being made when I knew full well nothing was being done. Obviously I can't say this is the same now but I'm thinking it's going to take longer because Superman doesn't want to work with anyone else. This thread isn't about v6 anyway so I'll leave it there.

Oh my final point; the General Manager is too weak and is probably the weakest I can remember, hence why Oli comes across as so 'tough' or 'involved' and acts like he 'owns habbox', because the General Manager will only pop in to threads now and then with replies no longer than a few sentences that make no sense because he doesn't want to upset or annoy anyone, or show the favouritism that can sometimes be seen. Especially in the staff "cliques".

Bye.

EDIT: Also you're always moaning about wanting more posts, leaving threads open would give you them x

[Chippiewill]

Oh my final point; the General Manager is too weak and is probably the weakest I can remember, hence why Oli comes across as so 'tough' or 'involved' and acts like he 'owns habbox', because the General Manager will only pop in to threads now and then with replies no longer than a few sentences that make no sense because he doesn't want to upset or annoy anyone, or show the favouritism that can sometimes be seen. Especially in the staff "cliques".

I never got why Oli is the one who replies, I know Matt is often busy but it'd be great, as the GM if he could be a little more active. That way he won't get 'out of touch' as it were, not that he is at the moment though.

[Robbie]

I never got why Oli is the one who replies, I know Matt is often busy but it'd be great, as the GM if he could be a little more active. That way he won't get 'out of touch' as it were, not that he is at the moment though.

It was the same when Garion was AGM too.

[Callum.]

some replies are golden. not sure whether it was because i was younger or not, but old management seemed much better.

[Hecktix]

I never got why Oli is the one who replies, I know Matt is often busy but it'd be great, as the GM if he could be a little more active. That way he won't get 'out of touch' as it were, not that he is at the moment though.

Habbox has never really had a General Manager who's forte was posting around the forums including feedback, nvrspk4 was good at it and Matt is one of the most active GMs in term of time and posting. The amount of stuff Matt has to do behind the scenes is unreal, I know that because it's me that forwards a lot of it onto him :P therefore in some areas he has to trust the AGMs to sort it all out, after all we are his Assistants. Everything I usually post in feedback is the opinion of myself and Matt combined as we usually discuss these kind of topics as and when they come up, if Matt's not busy he'll put a post in but a lot of the time he will be replying to PMs, checking up on things in departments, sorting out emails etc. He will usually be one of the first to reply to complaints however. I think any claims that Matt is a weak GM couldn't be much more wrong, I wouldn't be able to last in the job of General Manager because as people can clearly see, I will happily get heated in a discussion which is fine in my current position as it's not really a position that needs to be liked however the General Manager needs to be a neutral figure and this is something I massively respect MattGarner for, he assesses each situation he comes to with fairness, equality and honesty and it is Matt that shapes the work of all three AGMs. Just because he chooses not to be a huge face on the forum, doesn't mean he's not a huge face elsewhere, I know on Habbo Matt has a huge presence which is something that barely any former General Managers had. It's not the hugest issue he doesn't post around on the forum, because he isn't out of touch as you said however I don't think he'll be getting out of touch because I never stop talking in terms of MG :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

To be fair with this whole issue concerning feedback; I myself posted a simple thread not long ago asking when the new site was being put up as I had been accused of laziness and thus fired for it, so I enquired as to why a new site was taking too long and why action wasn't being taken with general management in the same way it was with me (I look on Habbox.com today and the new site is still not there). But my threads were closed one after another and I was barred from feedback despite breaking no forum rules - just like under MAD when I was banned under a 'rule' that did not exist. I agree with Robbie, if feedback that management do not like isn't going to be allowed - then whats the point in a feedback forum? the pretence?

Those of us who remember times under MAD will remember the bad atmosphere that was created when threads were closed for simply being critical of MAD, not to mention people banned/cautioned for no reasons other than having the nerve to question MAD/his management team over their management style.

The members who were banned for giving feedback should be unbanned, and if not - then close the feedback forum as it serves no purpose.

[beth]

why is habbox so hostile right now? good lord. i understand both sides of the story; yes, users have no right to constantly question admin on their policies, you wouldn't do it to (for example) yr headteacher or yr boss irl. but i also see that admin are talking to users in a hostile way.

it's like a warzone.

[Chippiewill]

it's like a warzone.
Bring our habbox soldiers home! :'(


why is habbox so hostile right now? good lord. i understand both sides of the story; yes, users have no right to constantly question admin on their policies, you wouldn't do it to (for example) yr headteacher or yr boss irl. but i also see that admin are talking to users in a hostile way.
I'd describe it more like the relationship between a store manager and a shopper, although, couldn't you say this entire forum is basically for questioning policies which makes it a far different dynamic to any thing in the real world. If you're asking for feedback not all of it will be positive and it would be a bad thing if only positive things were allowed.

[benjamin]

why is habbox so hostile right now? good lord. i understand both sides of the story; yes, users have no right to constantly question admin on their policies, you wouldn't do it to (for example) yr headteacher or yr boss irl. but i also see that admin are talking to users in a hostile way.

it's like a warzone.
bring back 06, when all there was, was love and spam. <3

[beth]

bring back 06, when all there was, was love and spam. <3

oh babe, if only. if only.

[Slowpoke]

bring back 06, when all there was, was love and spam. <3

Ben, your memory seems to be foggy

[benjamin]

Ben, your memory seems to be foggy

quite aware, but please don't ruin my moment :( miss the old days.

edit: anyway - at least the arguments were fun back then.

[nvrspk4]

I agree with a fair amount you say, but without trying to cause arguments, you normally seem like you own the website. You own the same amount of Habbox as Chippiewill.

However, you are technically the Assistant General Manager of Staff. I believe you are sometimes to powerful and speak too people as if you are bigger than them. Obviously you are agm of staff, but I don't think users that argue with you are always the ones to blame (well take the entire blame anyway).

Again, I am not doubting your skills to be a agm, but I am pointing out you do not actually OWN any of habbox

Oli, I never questioned what your job role is, I just think you sometimes talk for other members of staff when it isn't your role to do so.

ON THE OTHER HAND; it is superb that you do actually reply to feedback threads, and giving you credit it, you are exceptionally good at answering threads quickly

I disagree with the "own" comment, you don't have to own any part of Habbox to have the power to speak on Habbox's behalf. As the AGM Staff he has the authority to speak on behalf of pretty much any departmental manager, and on behalf of Matt and Jin if they give him authority to do so.

As a member of the General Management team, he does get a larger say in how Habbox is run and what Habbox will do than members do, it's just fact. I'm not sure why the lack of ownership is as big of an issue.

As far as the hostile tone, I think he's done a pretty good job of remaining civil, all things considered. You also have to remember that the general comments get hurled his and Matt's way most of the time, and sometimes it gets frustrating when members become a little too entitled and try to talk down. Not that it's a reason to lose your cool, and I don't think Oli has, but it does often result in your posts becoming a little more curt than they would otherwise :P


Threads get closed because management don't like being disagreed with and ram their points down your throat and lock the thread and any threads on the same subject because they don't want to be proven wrong. Of course, GM aren't going to say that.

This thread is still open...


I never got why Oli is the one who replies, I know Matt is often busy but it'd be great, as the GM if he could be a little more active. That way he won't get 'out of touch' as it were, not that he is at the moment though.

Traditionally the AGM (Staff) has been the one that replies the most in feedback, as the AGM (Staff) is essentially the second-in-command. I replied a lot in feedback during my time as GM, though honestly that was simply because I was AGM (Staff) for a very long time so it was just a matter of habit for me to respond to feedback threads (as you can see, I've yet to break the habit ;)) However, it is not unusual for the AGM (Staff) to take care of the majority of the Feedback.

[AgnesIO]

I disagree with the "own" comment, you don't have to own any part of Habbox to have the power to speak on Habbox's behalf. As the AGM Staff he has the authority to speak on behalf of pretty much any departmental manager, and on behalf of Matt and Jin if they give him authority to do so.

As a member of the General Management team, he does get a larger say in how Habbox is run and what Habbox will do than members do, it's just fact. I'm not sure why the lack of ownership is as big of an issue.

As far as the hostile tone, I think he's done a pretty good job of remaining civil, all things considered. You also have to remember that the general comments get hurled his and Matt's way most of the time, and sometimes it gets frustrating when members become a little too entitled and try to talk down. Not that it's a reason to lose your cool, and I don't think Oli has, but it does often result in your posts becoming a little more curt than they would otherwise :P



This thread is still open...



Traditionally the AGM (Staff) has been the one that replies the most in feedback, as the AGM (Staff) is essentially the second-in-command. I replied a lot in feedback during my time as GM, though honestly that was simply because I was AGM (Staff) for a very long time so it was just a matter of habit for me to respond to feedback threads (as you can see, I've yet to break the habit ;)) However, it is not unusual for the AGM (Staff) to take care of the majority of the Feedback.

I think you misunderstood. I was simply pointing it out as Oli said to Chippiewill he doesn't own Habbox, so I just pointed out neither does Oli! I wasn't planning on saying anymore than that!

Also, AGM (Staff) isn't a very old role though is it? I swear the four extra agms only came in at the end of 09??

[nvrspk4]

I think you misunderstood. I was simply pointing it out as Oli said to Chippiewill he doesn't own Habbox, so I just pointed out neither does Oli! I wasn't planning on saying anymore than that!

Also, AGM (Staff) isn't a very old role though is it? I swear the four extra agms only came in at the end of 09??

You're right I should have read it more thoroughly, my apologies. So now with a better understanding, I think Oli was using it as a sort of colloquialism (I had a better word, can't think of it) so when he said own, he meant "you think you own the place" as in "you think you're top dog, you give the orders, etc.". In which case, Oli is certainly more of a top dog as far as the running of Habbox, though obviously Matt and Jin are top dogs :P

Also, not really. For a long time the job was called "Assistant General Manager + Staff Editor". I got the job in February of 2007 (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=310501&highlight=Assistant+General+Manager) and Smiddy had the job before me, I can't seem to find the exact thread though. I believe he became Staff Editor in January of 06, but it should also be noted that the active replying to feedback by General Management didn't really start till '07-'08, so for as long as the General Management has been consistently replying to Feedback (for a long time you heard nothing from management, few realize how good you have it :P) the AGM (Staff) has done a lot of the replies.

[Cwmbran]

I did have a really good reply to this thread early on but it got moved and I didn't copy & paste it so forgive me if I say something thats already been settled as I haven't read the whole thread.
I've got to make it clear the whole reputation issue and V6 issues brought up in this thread really do not effect me and I'm not botherd about any of them.


few realize how good you have it :P) the AGM (Staff) has done a lot of the replies.
I've got to agree with that, I think this managment team is probably the most active team I've seen in feedback since I've been here so well done for that guys.


Posted by Hecktix
I don't talk to many users in a shoddy way but I'll talk to you in a shoddy way because every feedback thread you make you talk to us like you're in charge of us, sorry mate but that's not the case here.

This isn't a direct reply to you but on a whole I've noticed that if managment don't like something sometimes they will say "no thanks" or there will be no reply, we don't post feedback to be ignored and simply given the standard "nah dont like it" style response to what ever it may be, sometimes not giving a reason as to why it's not liked. You talk about members showing managment respect but if something gets a bit heated both parties lose respect for another and this happens. Managment should never lose respect for users when it comes to feedback because that person is getting a little angry. It happens everyday, for example I'am in a managerial position where I work and if a customer gets aggresive towards me I still have to respect that customer I don't turn around and shout back at them. Even though a forum is different to a business like I work in these basic foundamentals should stay the same.

[Eoin247]

This thread is still open...

Well to be fair, if this thread was closed there would be a huge uproar at this stage.

[Chippiewill]

Well to be fair, if this thread was closed there would be a huge uproar at this stage.
I agree, closing a feedback thread about feedback threads being closed would be horrifically ironic.

[Hecktix]

I agree, closing a feedback thread about feedback threads being closed would be horrifically ironic.

But still quite funny :P

However, I feel this thread has been incredibly productive and although myself and other users probably got a bit heated earlier on and in my opinion there's no problem with a thread getting a little bit heated but in my opinion that is bound to happen in the feedback forum, at the end of the day those telling us our management team should be professional and comparing us to shop managers and those in professions as managers this is completely wrong - we are teenagers (there and thereabouts anyway), we're all teenagers and when teenagers have a constant clash of opinion things get heated and sometimes those heated things actually help clear the air, it's clear from this thread that Chippiewill and I came to huge blows last night, however I've spoken to Chippiewill today and I have no issues with Chippiewill, he's just posted a fair idea about rep. Teenagers will argue when opinions clash and things will get heated, at the end of the day as I said, we're all teenagers.

And this is why I believe this thread has been productive, anyway - thus no need for it to get closed.

[Eoin247]

But still quite funny :P

However, I feel this thread has been incredibly productive and although myself and other users probably got a bit heated earlier on and in my opinion there's no problem with a thread getting a little bit heated but in my opinion that is bound to happen in the feedback forum, at the end of the day those telling us our management team should be professional and comparing us to shop managers and those in professions as managers this is completely wrong - we are teenagers (there and thereabouts anyway), we're all teenagers and when teenagers have a constant clash of opinion things get heated and sometimes those heated things actually help clear the air, it's clear from this thread that Chippiewill and I came to huge blows last night, however I've spoken to Chippiewill today and I have no issues with Chippiewill, he's just posted a fair idea about rep. Teenagers will argue when opinions clash and things will get heated, at the end of the day as I said, we're all teenagers.

And this is why I believe this thread has been productive, anyway - thus no need for it to get closed.

Well said. Damn those hormones !