Osama Bin Laden is DEAD

[jam666]

The terroist leader Osama Bin Laden is reported to be dead tonight after being killed a week ago by an American bomb. The news has just being released because DNA test were being carried on the body. The United State has his body in possession and we do not know whether he was killed in Pakistan or Afghanistan.

What are your thoughts on this matter?

(Sources: Sky News, Fox News and other American networks. The Article yet to be released)

[Lost_Addict]

I was just about to post this, waiting for it to be officialy released as his body.

[Agnostic Bear]

Might I be the first to say:

AMERICA! **** YEAH!

[Stephen!]

Ave it!!!

[jam666]

CONFIRMED. It has being confirmed that news is true and he is actually dead :). What amazes me most is that the news has been kept quiet for over a week.

Article on Sky News: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/US-President-Barack-Obama-Announces/Article/201105115983545?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15983545_US_President_Barack_Obama_Ann ounces

Press conference from the White House will be held shortly.

[HotelUser]

Good for the military :)

[JerseySafety]

About time.

Get rid of that scum. Hope he has an enjoyable life in hell.

Wooo!

[Metric1]

omg just came back from the store, it was packed and people were spending obscene amounts on fireworks.

[rld]

AMERICA!
WOOOO!

[xxMATTGxx]

About time, congratulations to all involved in this operation.

[Chippiewill]

What amazes me most is that the news has been kept quiet for over a week.

Those that knew were probably told to keep quiet whilst it was confirmed.

[Agnostic Bear]

They got the intel of where he was last week, he was killed today/yesterday.

[.x.miss.angel.x]

Hopefully this is the end to a tragic war!

[myke]

This is really good news! But I can see someone taking his place and the war continuing ;o

[Arron]

Really great news. I found out via John Cena's Twitter account.

[Bomb-Head]

Really happy. Well done America!!

At least it brings SOME (about 0.01%) comfort to those who lost loved ones due to him.

[Spuds]

Hopefully this is the end to a tragic war!
Idiotic comment, if you believe this should be the end then I'm glad you're not making the orders.

[Gibs960]

Wooop Wooop!

[Thomas]

aren't all his followers going to go crazy and bomb everything now?

[sweet]

Even though he did do all of those terrorist attacks, he's still a human so I don't think it's right to go "woooo!". R.I.P to him.

[Gibs960]

R.I.P? I hope he rots in hell, I hope the devil personally pokes his eye balls out with a hot iron bar.

[luce]

Yep no body thought that they will just get another leader, who is probably trained and just waiting, and then do over the western world 100x worse than before?

Apparently he was shot by USA SS men.

[rld]

I think that we are all gonna die from a retaliating attack from Al Qaeda

[xxMATTGxx]

I think that we are all gonna die from a retaliating attack from Al Qaeda

I'm not quite sure how Al Qaeda can kill us all but you keep thinking like that!

[Mathew]

Brilliant news. Woke up to a text from my friend telling me and then my Dad when I went downstairs :P

Obviously this won't be the end, but it's a step in the right direction at least. I think it's more the fact that "Bin Laden" is such a feared name throughout the world, so the significance of him finally being "dead" is somewhat newsworthy. Surely Obama has the next election in the bag.. ;)

[smiffy70]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


finally that **** sucking ******* is dead for all he is done, hope he rots in hell

[Mathew]

So Osama Bin Laden is dead... Amazing what the Americans can do when the Playstation Network is down

Hahahahaha.

[Jahova]

Where's the proof?

[Circadia]

http://www.talktalk.co.uk/news/article/bin-laden-killed-in-us-operation/5775/

Quite glad he's dead, but to the person who said before 'Hopefully This war will end' then you are sadly mistaken as Bin laden wasn't the only terrorist out there just the main instigator.

[Zuth]

Its about time! 10 years! Woooo!!!

[Ed.]

Yes, on the one hand it is good news. But it would be naive to think that the war on terror is easing up. In fact, it'll probably increase now. Bin Laden had gotten to the age where he was just a figurehead of Al Qaeda and so he wasn't at all the ideas man.

Moreover, there are so many splinter groups of Al Qaeda who plan their own attacks so if anything, they'll be spurred on for more attacks now.

[Caution]

I don't know why no-one on here is doubting it. There's no evidence it's him, and they've buried him at sea 'because of his religion' they say - there's no way they are concerned about his religion. Surely they would have kept the body as proof?

[Eoin247]

I don't know why no-one on here is doubting it. There's no evidence it's him, and they've buried him at sea 'because of his religion' they say - there's no way they are concerned about his religion. Surely they would have kept the body as proof?

By the fact that if he wasn't dead al qaeda would be te first ones to release proof that he's alive and laugh in our faces.

Obama just got himself a hell of a lot of votes. It's more of a mental victory than a physical one i think, but a significant one nonetheless.

[AgnesIO]

Even though he did do all of those terrorist attacks, he's still a human so I don't think it's right to go "woooo!". R.I.P to him.

You are right.

How can you go "woo"? LET'S HAVE A ******* PARTY INSTEAD!!!

---

Although this is clearly a significant death, I can't help but think for the short term (next few years) this is simply going to cause attacks everywhere. On the other hand, I doubt there are many people that could mastermind attacks as big as 9/11

[Moh]

Does nobody think this is a little fishy? (no pun intended).

He would have been much better alive than dead. Why shoot him in the head? If they were going to shoot him, at least shoot him so he can't get away, but so he can still be questioned. Only 4 people were killed, so I don't think there was much of a threat.

I sure do hope that the dumping him in the sea is a joke? Pretty much means that no other country can examine the body.

[xxMATTGxx]

Does nobody think this is a little fishy? (no pun intended).

He would have been much better alive than dead. Why shoot him in the head? If they were going to shoot him, at least shoot him so he can't get away, but so he can still be questioned. Only 4 people were killed, so I don't think there was much of a threat.

I sure do hope that the dumping him in the sea is a joke? Pretty much means that no other country can examine the body.

Who says he was going to talk at all? The body in the sea business could be real if they were following the region way of dumping the body within 24 hours or some rubbish.

[Technologic]

- If he wasn't dead then al qaeda would be all over the press saying so.
- 10 years to catch one guy, good going America.
- He wasn't even in charge any more so this changes nothing.

[Inseriousity.]

I don't know why no-one on here is doubting it. There's no evidence it's him, and they've buried him at sea 'because of his religion' they say - there's no way they are concerned about his religion. Surely they would have kept the body as proof?

Yeah when I first saw the title, my first thought was 'I'll wait for the video that proves them wrong' :P

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere last week that if Bin Laden ever got killed, there'd be vengance attacks.

PS. What religion says you get buried at sea? Never heard of a Muslim doing that. They get buried in the ground waiting for Jesus to come back on the Day of Judgement (oh that sounds familiar ;)), I'm sure.

[Blain]

According to the news on bbc B52's hit the cave he was hiding but he escaped into a pakistani tibal area and a week later they found him in a pakistani city 10minutes away from a military base and 4 helicopters dropped US Special Forces into the area they killed him two of his couriers, one of his sons and a woman who was being used as a human shield and they put his body in the sea.

[Moh]

Who says he was going to talk at all? The body in the sea business could be real if they were following the region way of dumping the body within 24 hours or some rubbish.Who knows? Better than giving him a quick death shooting him in the head. Yes, within 24 hours, what was the rush?

[xxMATTGxx]

Who knows? Better than giving him a quick death shooting him in the head. Yes, within 24 hours, what was the rush?

He was never just going to hand himself over, we don't know the full operation went. Looking at the wikipedia page about things, I can't really find much on burial at sea being part of the culture. But it would probably of been done so no one would find the location or the body etc.

Once they confirmed it was him, you may as well get rid of it.

Has the sea part been confirmed yet?

[AgnesIO]

- If he wasn't dead then al qaeda would be all over the press saying so.
- 10 years to catch one guy, good going America.
- He wasn't even in charge any more so this changes nothing.

- Exactly - although I would give them a day to get it out he is still alive.
- Clearly it was seriously difficult - if you think they took so long, why didn't you hop over to the Middle East, I am sure you would have found him in under a year.
- He was the figure head though, so obviously it does change things.

Yeah when I first saw the title, my first thought was 'I'll wait for the video that proves them wrong' :P

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere last week that if Bin Laden ever got killed, there'd be vengance attacks.

PS. What religion says you get buried at sea? Never heard of a Muslim doing that. They get buried in the ground waiting for Jesus to come back on the Day of Judgement (oh that sounds familiar ;)), I'm sure.

Obviously there will be retaliation.

[Shar]

Dead out of nowhere..party America?

[Eoin247]

With regards to being buried at sea. It says on the article that was posted here that it was done to prevent a shrine being created where his body was buried.

[Red]

Should this 24 hour burial rule even count in this case? :l I think it's abit weird thy buried him so hastily.

[Cohen]

From what I heard.
Late night on Mar 1st 4 Helicopters carrying Navy Seals raided the compound. It is believed that his son, 2 guards and a woman that Osama was using as a shield was killed. It is also believed that one helicopter went down though no soldiers were killed. The US have taken custody of his body and is being moved to Afghanistan for DNA testing.

The battle has been won though the war on terrorism is long from over, someone will takeover power and Al Qaeda is long from over.

[Stephen]

I hope America is looking forward to some terrorist attacks

[Moh]

From what I heard.
Late night on Mar 1st 4 Helicopters carrying Navy Seals raided the compound. It is believed that his son, 2 guards and a woman that Osama was using as a shield was killed. It is also believed that one helicopter went down though no soldiers were killed. The US have taken custody of his body and is being moved to Afghanistan for DNA testing.

The battle has been won though the war on terrorism is long from over, someone will takeover power and Al Qaeda is long from over.
The helicopter has some problems and couldn't take them back so they burned the helicopter to secure intelligence.

[Conservative,]

The terroist leader Osama Bin Laden is reported to be dead tonight after being killed a week ago by an American bomb. The news has just being released because DNA test were being carried on the body. The United State has his body in possession and we do not know whether he was killed in Pakistan or Afghanistan.

What are your thoughts on this matter?

(Sources: Sky News, Fox News and other American networks. The Article yet to be released)

He was shot yesterday after resisting arrest. His son was also killed. This won't be the end but it's very demoralising for AQ and it's good for Obama - possibly raising his hopes for re-election.

However I doubt anyone can replace him - he was too clever for his own good. But watch this space, you can guarantee someone will try and retaliate. But good news.

[Moh]

It's Amazing what the Americans can do when the PS3 Network is down.

Anyways, when reading the news article, did anybody else find it hard with "Obama" and "Osama" being really alike? I was reading it and "Obama said..." .. wait, how did he say that? He's dead.. oh. Wrong person.

[AgnesIO]

It's Amazing what the Americans can do when the PS3 Network is down.

Anyways, when reading the news article, did anybody else find it hard with "Obama" and "Osama" being really alike? I was reading it and "Obama said..." .. wait, how did he say that? He's dead.. oh. Wrong person.

It's amazing the things people find off websites such as facebook and sickipedia. Did make me laugh though x

Yeah, it is weird. You wait for the conspiracy theories though.. OBAMA IS OSAMA JUST WITH A SUN TAN AND A SHAVED BEARD!

[Eoin247]

It's Amazing what the Americans can do when the PS3 Network is down.

Anyways, when reading the news article, did anybody else find it hard with "Obama" and "Osama" being really alike? I was reading it and "Obama said..." .. wait, how did he say that? He's dead.. oh. Wrong person.

lol, mathew already posted that i think. Did make me laugh when i first read it though :)

[Phil]

Get ready for the riots.

[Richie]

I seen a video about this on youtube earlier which showed images of him dead. Apparently it is fake and if it's true, as much of a bad man he was, I don't think anyone should stoop to his level. Having a party and chanting because a man has been killed, am I the only one who can show some sort of compassion for this horrible man? No-one deserves to die, killer or not.

[AgnesIO]

I watch a video about this on youtube which showed images. Apparently it is fake and if it's true, as much of a bad man he was, I don't think anyone should stoop to his level. Having a party and chanting because a man has been killed, am I the only one who can show some sort of compassion for this horrible man?

He was behind the murders of thousands of people? He deserves everything he gets.

I can't believe you Richie. You think the queen is a terrorist, so understand why the pathetic IRA want her dead, yet you don't think people being pleased about this is right? I really, really don't understand you lately.

[Richie]

He was behind the murders of thousands of people? He deserves everything he gets.

I can't believe you Richie. You think the queen is a terrorist, so understand why the pathetic IRA want her dead, yet you don't think people being pleased about this is right? I really, really don't understand you lately.

Sorry for not wanting more killings in todays world, killer or not, he should of been sent to prison for the rest of his life. I don't believe in an eye for an eye. If someone does something horrible like this man, they should be locked away for the rest of their life. As for the IRA I understand why they want her dead but that doesn't mean I want her dead nor do I believe in their violence.

[AgnesIO]

Sorry for not wanting more killings in todays world, killer or not, he should of been sent to prison for the rest of his life. I don't believe in an eye for an eye. If someone does something horrible like this man, they should be locked away for the rest of their life. As for the IRA I understand why they want her dead but that doesn't mean I want her dead nor do I believe in their violence.

You can't understand, since the QUEEN has done nothing wrong.

He resisted arrest, as far as I am concerned the man is dead, and that is it sorted - why risk the chance of him getting away?

[Richie]

Two wrongs don't make a right

Oh and locking someone in prison for the rest of their life is way more justifiable, makes the person in question think about the crime they have committed.

[Jssy]

For what he's done I don't think he deserved to live a life.

[Richie]

You can't understand, since the QUEEN has done nothing wrong.

He resisted arrest, as far as I am concerned the man is dead, and that is it sorted - why risk the chance of him getting away?

Have him under security lock down 24/7. He won't get away then. I don't see how someone has the right to take away another human beings life. (Including what he done). Prisons where made for a reason. One murder or thousands, they still killed someone.

Milestone as for the Queen, I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY WANT HER DEAD BUT I CAN SEE BEYOND THEM, HENCE WHY I DON'T WANT HER TO COME TO IRELAND SO SHE DOESN'T GET HARMED.

jesus

[xxMATTGxx]

He was never going to get arrested and just put into a jail lmao

[Fez]

I'm the type of person who believes the code of law should be used against any man, regardless of whether or not he is guilty or innocent, as it gives true justice. It was probably impossible to capture him given the circumstances, never the less, if they put him on trial then it might've shown the world just how America does things nowadays.

Four things:

1) I'm happy that the families of the 9/11 attack can rest easy knowing that the man who orchestrated it all is now dead. They deserve peace after nearly ten years, good for them.
2) "10 years, 2 wars, 919,967 deaths & $1,188,263,000,000 later, we managed to kill one person. I hope it was worth it"- http://kateoplis.tumblr.com/
3) This will not end the war on terror, there has already been a terror alert elevation here in the UK. Someone will take his place, but no doubt this has still been a blow to Al Qaeda.
4) Am I the only one slightly suspicious we didn't see a body or any proof of death AND this just so happens to be near Obama's presidential campaign?

[Mathew]

He was at the top of the FBI's most wanted list and they've been searching for years. He was responsible for killing thousands of people and he is the mastermind behind the most feared terrorist group in the world... yet you want to throw him in a prison with 24/7 security which will cost thousands of dollars to the taxpayer? No. Just no.

[AgnesIO]

Two wrongs don't make a right

Oh and locking someone in prison for the rest of their life is way more justifiable, makes the person in question think about the crime they have committed.

Oh yeah because I am sure Mr Bin Laden will be very sorry and realise what he did wrong after being put in prison.


Have him under security lock down 24/7. He won't get away then. I don't see how someone has the right to take away another human beings life. (Including what he done). Prisons where made for a reason. One murder or thousands, they still killed someone.

Milestone as for the Queen, I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY WANT HER DEAD BUT I CAN SEE BEYOND THEM, HENCE WHY I DON'T WANT HER TO COME TO IRELAND SO SHE DOESN'T GET HARMED.

jesus

It isn't about the right, he took thousands of peoples lives he is better off dead. I totally disagree that prison is the best place for him, why waste money guarding a ***** like him?

[Richie]

I seriously can't believe some of you, surely putting a man in prison and making him think about all the innocent people he killed is worse than a bullet in the head. I know if I was a terrorist I'd rather be shot dead. Either way, I'll just keep repeating myself, no-one deserves to die. If the Americans had of locked him up, it would of just shown they aren't animals like his men and him. It shows us Americans are moving up in the world and don't need to kill a man to see justice.

[xxMATTGxx]

I seriously can't believe some of you, surely putting a man in prison and making him think about all the innocent people he killed is worse than a bullet in the head. I know if I was a terrorist I'd rather be shot dead. Either way, I'll just keep repeating myself, no-one deserves to die. If the Americans had of locked him up, it would of just shown they aren't animals like his men and him. It shows us Americans are moving up in the world and don't need to kill a man to see justice.


He never wanted to be captured, they put up a fight against the U.S troops. Now, if you want to be all fair about this; he was going to end up being dead. Because if he was going to be put on trial and all of that business, it would of ended up being on the chair or hanged surely? The guy is behind attacks that have killed so many innocent lives, so he deserved to be shot dead by the armed forces.

Not only that, people wanted to see him dead. The US people would most certainly would of seem him dead rather than being locked up in one of their prisons.

[AgnesIO]

Two wrongs don't make a right

Oh and locking someone in prison for the rest of their life is way more justifiable, makes the person in question think about the crime they have committed.


I seriously can't believe some of you, surely putting a man in prison and making him think about all the innocent people he killed is worse than a bullet in the head. I know if I was a terrorist I'd rather be shot dead. Either way, I'll just keep repeating myself, no-one deserves to die. If the Americans had of locked him up, it would of just shown they aren't animals like his men and him. It shows us Americans are moving up in the world and don't need to kill a man to see justice.

The thing is you are not a terrorist. Bin Laden ahs had TEN YEARS to think about the people he killed, do you really think anyone who can even plan an attack like that has any kind of heart and compassion?

SOme people are better off dead.

[Richie]

He never wanted to be captured, they put up a fight against the U.S troops. Now, if you want to be all fair about this; he was going to end up being dead. Because if he was going to be put on trial and all of that business, it would of ended up being on the chair or hanged surely? The guy is behind attacks that have killed so many innocent lives, so he deserved to be shot dead by the armed forces.

That's the thing though, I don't believe in the death penalty. Hopefully in years to come people will realise it isn't the right thing to take another mans life. It isn't down to them, sure binladen killed people, which is why he should be punished.

If my family members died in 9/11 I'd much prefer the man to be locked away in prison. Showing pictures of a dead man on the internet or having him hung on live television is how animals act. I'm actually really annoyed that people want to act like a bunch of animals. I HATE THIS MAN AND BY ALL MEANS LOCK HIM UP AND NEVER LET HIM SEE DAYLIGHT BUT I WILL NEVER AGREE ANOTHER HUMAN BEING HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE ANOTHER MANS LIFE.

[AgnesIO]

That's the thing though, I don't believe in the death penalty. Hopefully in years to come people will realise it isn't the right thing to take another mans life. It isn't down to them, sure binladen killed people, which is why he should be punished.

If my family members died in 9/11 I'd much prefer the man to be locked away in prison. Showing pictures of a dead man on the internet or having him hung on live television is how animals act. I'm actually really annoyed that people want to act like a bunch of animals. I HATE THIS MAN AND BY ALL MEANS LOCK HIM UP AND NEVER LET HIM SEE DAYLIGHT BUT I WILL NEVER AGREE ANOTHER HUMAN BEING HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE ANOTHER MANS LIFE.

Humans are animals.

[Recursion]

I dare say they considered a jail sentence for this *******, but I think it'd have been too risky, people would find out where he was imprisoned and it would become a terrorist target.

Anyway, an eye for an eye, he killed thousands of innocent people, who probably had families, young children, brothers, sons, fathers, daughters, mothers etc, he deserved a worse death than he was given IMO.

[Richie]

Humans are animals.

Well I'm not.


I'm sure binladen was happy they killed him, imagine if the americans showed binladen in chains and a orange prison suit going into prison. Imagine how powerful that image would be? Imagine how shameful binladen would be.

[xxMATTGxx]

Well I'm not.


I'm sure binladen was happy they killed him, imagine if the americans showed binladen in chains and a orange prison suit going into prison. Imagine how powerful that image would be? Imagine how shameful binladen would be.

If your not an animal, your not human then yeah?

[Richie]

If your not an animal, your not human then yeah?

Are you stupid? I meant a heartless animal as in the phrase...

[Recursion]

Well I'm not.

Yes you are. Humans (Homo Sapiens) are part of the great ape family and are scientifically classed as in the Animalia (Animal) kingdom.


Like most higher primates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simian), humans are social animals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_animal).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

----

It's survival of the fittest, it's natural for humans to want to kill someone like bin Laden, don't even try and step around that.

[Richie]

Yes you are. Humans (Homo Sapiens) are part of the great ape family and are scientifically classed as in the Animalia (Animal) kingdom.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

I was referring to a phrase, jesus.

[Recursion]

http://paradoxdgn.com/junk/avatars/trollface.jpg

Edited by Infectious (Forum Moderator): Please do not make pointless posts, thanks!

[Fez]

He was at the top of the FBI's most wanted list and they've been searching for years. He was responsible for killing thousands of people and he is the mastermind behind the most feared terrorist group in the world... yet you want to throw him in a prison with 24/7 security which will cost thousands of dollars to the taxpayer? No. Just no.

Exactly.

I personally think if they put him on trial for execution, like with Saddam, it would send a broader message.

[Sharon]

Thank ******* TIME - I actually sat through watching Obama say his big speech. Thank GOD

[Lamz]

http://i53.tinypic.com/2evvlac.jpg
Atleast have SOME respect for the guy! he wasn't born a terrorist!

[Mathew]

Atleast have SOME respect for the guy! he wasn't born a terrorist!
Even more reason to despise him then?... :rolleyes: That image is disgusting.

[Lamz]

Even more reason to despise him then?... :rolleyes: That image is disgusting.

how do you know he wasn't forced into it? he may have been troubled as a kid...

[AgnesIO]

http://i53.tinypic.com/2evvlac.jpg
Atleast have SOME respect for the guy! he wasn't born a terrorist!

Anyone who has respect for him is a complete moron.


how do you know he wasn't forced into it? he may have been troubled as a kid...

Because his parents disowned him.

[Mathew]

how do you know he wasn't forced into it? he may have been troubled as a kid...
His Dad was a wealthy businessman with closes ties to the Saudi Royal Family. He was raised as a devout Muslim and attended a prestigious school. He then went on to University where he studied Economics and Business Adminstration and it's thought he got a degree in Civil Engineering or Public Administration. He was also interested in religion and interpreted the Quaran, did lots of charity work and also wrote poetry.

The only troubled part of his childhood would be his parents divorcing, but I wouldn't suggest that was anything major as he was born the only son of his father's 10th wife.
Troubled childhood? Yeah, right.

[Jssy]

I don't see why people feel sorry for him and are calling him a legend. He did wrong so he has now faced the consequences, just as anybody else would.

[-:Undertaker:-]

how do you know he wasn't forced into it? he may have been troubled as a kid...

A troubled childhood does not excuse the actions of a person of sound mind.

Now i've only just found out about this and yes, i'm glad he is gone. However, bare in mind I have not read what happened as of yet, but if he was not resisting arrest/capture then he should have been put on trial as opposed to simply killed on sight (shoot to kill). I believe in innocent until proven guilty and that applies to everyone, including those who we most hate.

Secondly, where are the pictures of the body or the DNA tests? if anyone can point these out to me, i'd be most grateful because considering our records on telling the truth (the invasion of Iraq, Gulf of Tonkin incident) it gives me serious doubt especially as the body was dumped so early.


He never wanted to be captured, they put up a fight against the U.S troops. Now, if you want to be all fair about this; he was going to end up being dead. Because if he was going to be put on trial and all of that business, it would of ended up being on the chair or hanged surely? The guy is behind attacks that have killed so many innocent lives, so he deserved to be shot dead by the armed forces.

He deserved a trial if possible and then the death penalty if found guilty, we are not savages.

Do you believe in the death penalty? if not, why are you welcoming his death via the armed forces?

[Red]

Well I'm not.


I'm sure binladen was happy they killed him, imagine if the americans showed binladen in chains and a orange prison suit going into prison. Imagine how powerful that image would be? Imagine how shameful binladen would be.

using a woman as a human shield... yea sure sounds like someone who was happy to be killed.

[cocaine]

http://i53.tinypic.com/2evvlac.jpg
Atleast have SOME respect for the guy! he wasn't born a terrorist!

are you ******* serious? have some respect for that scum? geuinely cannot believe someone just said that. did you pity hitler when he committed suicide too?


I'm sure binladen was happy they killed him, imagine if the americans showed binladen in chains and a orange prison suit going into prison. Imagine how powerful that image would be? Imagine how shameful binladen would be.

more powerful than seeing him with a bullet in his head?

[Shar]

http://i53.tinypic.com/2evvlac.jpg
Atleast have SOME respect for the guy! he wasn't born a terrorist!

A question to yourself: does the guy deserve an even an ounce of our respect and if so why?

[Stephen]

http://i53.tinypic.com/2evvlac.jpg
Atleast have SOME respect for the guy! he wasn't born a terrorist!

Did you really make that? You clearly don't know ANYTHING. You don't respect a murderer just because they weren't always a murderer.

actually I think I might -rep you for that

[Lost_Addict]

I believe his death was correct and just, anyone who commits these sorts of crimes do not deserve to live themself.

However people hsould not rejoice in death, it's not how we should act as individuals or as a nation. We are more that that and should prove it.

You can be glad that families of 9/11 victims have some justice now but you shouldnt rejoice in another humans downful.

[xxMATTGxx]

A troubled childhood does not excuse the actions of a person of sound mind.

Now i've only just found out about this and yes, i'm glad he is gone. However, bare in mind I have not read what happened as of yet, but if he was not resisting arrest/capture then he should have been put on trial as opposed to simply killed on sight (shoot to kill). I believe in innocent until proven guilty and that applies to everyone, including those who we most hate.

Secondly, where are the pictures of the body or the DNA tests? if anyone can point these out to me, i'd be most grateful because considering our records on telling the truth (the invasion of Iraq, Gulf of Tonkin incident) it gives me serious doubt especially as the body was dumped so early.



He deserved a trial if possible and then the death penalty if found guilty, we are not savages.

Do you believe in the death penalty? if not, why are you welcoming his death via the armed forces?

I believe in it to some extent for people like Bin Laden, yes.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I believe in it to some extent for people like Bin Laden, yes.

So in other words, execution without a trial by the armed forces is ok, but execution after being tried and sentenced by a jury in a court of law is not?

..thats if you are against the death penalty by the way, if not then there's no issue.

[xxMATTGxx]

So in other words, execution without a trial by the armed forces is ok, but execution after being tried and sentenced by a jury in a court of law is not?

..thats if you are against the death penalty by the way, if not then there's no issue.

With or without trial, it would of came to the same ending. He didn't want to be captured by the US, so I don't think they had any other choice if he resisted to be arrested and so on. I'm not against the death penalty when it's used on terrorists and other people who have killed innocent people.

[-:Undertaker:-]

With or without trial, it would of came to the same ending. He didn't want to be captured by the US, so I don't think they had any other choice if he resisted to be arrested and so on. I'm not against the death penalty when it's used on terrorists and other people who have killed innocent people.

We agree then on the death penalty (that is is just) and on Bin Laden, as I said before - if he was armed and resisting arrest then obviously shoot to kill is the correct way to go about it, but if not - then I just find that utterly barbaric.

[Chippiewill]

http://i53.tinypic.com/2evvlac.jpg
Atleast have SOME respect for the guy! he wasn't born a terrorist!
Fail troll is fail. I judge people by their actions, not what they were born as.

[Richie]

However people hsould not rejoice in death, it's not how we should act as individuals or as a nation. We are more that that and should prove it.


We agree then on the death penalty (that is is just) and on Bin Laden, as I said before - if he was armed and resisting arrest then obviously shoot to kill is the correct way to go about it, but if not - then I just find that utterly barbaric.


Agreed.


I don't believe we should respect him, that is just crazy. However I do believe everyone should be treated equally.

[Accipiter]

I think execution without trial is what the armed forces are specialised in to be fair.

[Sharon]

[/CENTER]
Atleast have SOME respect for the guy! he wasn't born a terrorist!

You just reminded me of a girl who was on my Facebook earlier. She's 11 and claims he's a amazing and didn't deserve it.

http://ph.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110501215728AAmDSxH - Go read up before saying such ****** up things.

Why would we respect such a horrible man who killed thousands just to spite us?

[Richie]

You just reminded me of a girl who was on my Facebook earlier. She's 11 and claims he's a amazing and didn't deserve it.

http://ph.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110501215728AAmDSxH - Go read up before saying such ****** up things.

Why would we respect such a horrible man who killed thousands just to spite us?

It wasn't out of spite, it was his beliefs. Either way it was still wrong and he deserved to be locked away like the rest of the murderers in this world.

[Stephen]

http://i.imgur.com/yYDDw.jpg

fox news fail lol

[Slowpoke]

No, he deserved to die

I do hope this doesn't turn out to be one of those "we'll never know for sure" situations

That's what I mean: we probably will never know how. You're right by saying that if he was alive he'd release a video. Since that hasn't happened it's quite clear that he is dead. But if he had died of natural causes a while ago, I think the upper leaders of al-Qaeda will let that be known as they wouldn't want such a lie being spread. If the Americans did indeed kill him this morning, expect terrorist attacks

[Accipiter]

Dw I'm writing Osama conspiracies now.

I'm joking, but others probably aren't.

[Misawa]

Never know what to believe. After all, most of the supposed 9/11 hijackers are alive and well in Pakistan.

[AgnesIO]

Never know what to believe. After all, most of the supposed 9/11 hijackers are alive and well in Pakistan.

Where did you hear that?

[Oleh]

I think they should have waterboarded him a few times, Cut his ligaments off an inch at a time. Soaked him in salt. set him on fire. Put him out. Waterboard him a few more times. then let some wild dogs go at him.

[xxMATTGxx]

"If we would have been able to take him alive, we would have done that," Chief US counter-terrorism advisor John Brennan said of Bin Laden's death.

[Inseriousity.]

http://i.imgur.com/yYDDw.jpg

fox news fail lol

inseriousity. fail that i looked at that for ages before working out what the mistake was :(

[Misawa]

Where did you hear that?

Look it up. Many of those supposedly burnt-to-a-crisp extremists were doing just fine following 9/11. Similar to how bin Laden was treated at a US Red Cross hospital just weeks prior to the events. I don't believe most of the theories about that day, but there is something very fishy about it and always has been. And those towers were definitely taken down with controlled demolition.

[Stephen]

YANO WHAT IS FISHY?

How he ended up in the sea

badum tish

[Accipiter]

LMAO

Sorry

The weirdest thing I find about the whole 9/11 thing is why the US flew the Bin Laden family out during the no fly period.

[dirrty]

can someone please explain to me why he was buried at sea

[xxMATTGxx]

can someone please explain to me why he was buried at sea

1718: Bin Laden was buried at sea because no country was available to accept his body, US defence officials tell Reuters news agency.

Apart from that and some religious thing, I have no idea.

[Stephen!]

It was also because they didn't want Americans or other people getting hands on the body.

[sweet]

R.I.P? I hope he rots in hell, I hope the devil personally pokes his eye balls out with a hot iron bar.

Yeah, you may hate him for all of the things he's done, but it's not as if it's going to bring back any of the loved one's people have lost. It may make you feel better but it doesn't make me any better, considering there are more people out there. It may just be me, but I don't think deaths are there to be celebrated - it only makes you at least 0.01% safer from the al-Qaeda group. And yes, before you say, I have lost somebody I loved in the 9/11 attack. I'm not saying it was bad to kill him, but even though he killed all of those people, I think it's disrespectful to celebrate over the death of someone.


Just because Osama bin Laden is dead, does not make you win in the war of terror. Osama was just the one who claimed responsibility for September 11, no one knows whether or not he was in fact the leader or if there are higher ranking people in Al Qaeda. But let’s assume that he is and see what will happen. Oh thats right a successor will take his place. What a surprise!! In fact experts are already saying that Ayman al-Zawahri will take command almost immediately. So you have not won! Yes it was a good thing to do but we (Australia is/was [depending on where the battle is] fighting with America) are not approaching this in the right way. I don’t know what the “right” way is but I know that what we are doing now just isn’t working.



^ as someone said


One of the terrorist group’s most senior figures warned that al-Qaeda had obtained and hidden a nuclear bomb in Europe that would be detonated if Osama bin Laden was killed or captured.

have fun with that

[-:Undertaker:-]

I think Lord Tebbit is spot on, why are politicians such as David Cameron and Ed Miliband celebrating the death of Osama Bin Laden when they are quite happy to allow Sinn Fein and the IRA into permanent government in Northern Ireland? the IRA remains more of a threat and caused much more damage to the United Kingdom as opposed to Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban.. so why is the death of one terrorist fantastic (which it is), but the terrorists closer to home aren't just alive - they are in government.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/normantebbit/100086004/the-government-lavishes-praise-on-the-killers-of-osama-bin-laden-while-giving-protection-to-ira-terrorists/


For me, and many other victims of the Sinn Fein/IRA terrorism which cost the lives of thousands in this Kingdom, there is something jarring in the way in which the Government lavishes praise on those who rid the world of one purveyor of terrorism whilst extending praise and even armed protection to those guilty of the same crimes here. The Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have been unequivocal in their support of the assassination of bin Laden. They are equally unequivocal in refusing to contemplate the execution of terrorists here. For them the death penalty is out of question except when carried out by US Special Forces outside the United States, or possibly in Libya against Qaddafi.

Why do Sinn Fein/the IRA not face the hangmans noose/a bullet into the head?

[xxMATTGxx]

Yeah, you may hate him for all of the things he's done, but it's not as if it's going to bring back any of the loved one's people have lost. It may make you feel better but it doesn't make me any better, considering there are more people out there. It may just be me, but I don't think deaths are there to be celebrated - it only makes you at least 0.01% safer from the al-Qaeda group. And yes, before you say, I have lost somebody I loved in the 9/11 attack. I'm not saying it was bad to kill him, but even though he killed all of those people, I think it's disrespectful to celebrate over the death of someone.



^ as someone said



have fun with that

Hold on a minute,

You do not seriously believe the following, which you quoted:


One of the terrorist group’s most senior figures warned that al-Qaeda had obtained and hidden a nuclear bomb in Europe that would be detonated if Osama bin Laden was killed or captured.


I doubt it that they are able to create nuclear bombs with ease. They would of used them by now for sure! Oh and why would they just go for Europe? It's the US's operation so why not plant many of these so called "nuclear bombs" all around the US. I'm sure that would make them very happy wouldn't it? I can't believe what some people post on the internet, what a load of ********.

[AgnesIO]

Yeah, you may hate him for all of the things he's done, but it's not as if it's going to bring back any of the loved one's people have lost. It may make you feel better but it doesn't make me any better, considering there are more people out there. It may just be me, but I don't think deaths are there to be celebrated - it only makes you at least 0.01% safer from the al-Qaeda group. And yes, before you say, I have lost somebody I loved in the 9/11 attack. I'm not saying it was bad to kill him, but even though he killed all of those people, I think it's disrespectful to celebrate over the death of someone.



^ as someone said



have fun with that

Anyone who believes that Nuclear Bomb thing is an imbecile. Do you think they just carried it in and hid it in Europe? Believable.

[Eoin247]

http://i.imgur.com/yYDDw.jpg

fox news fail lol

lol, fox don't like obama much from what i hear anyway.


1718: Bin Laden was buried at sea because no country was available to accept his body, US defence officials tell Reuters news agency.

Apart from that and some religious thing, I have no idea.

The body had to be buried withing a certain timeframe a believe.

Since they didn't want a "shrine" to be created they buried him at sea at an unexact location.

[Conservative,]

Yeah, you may hate him for all of the things he's done, but it's not as if it's going to bring back any of the loved one's people have lost. It may make you feel better but it doesn't make me any better, considering there are more people out there. It may just be me, but I don't think deaths are there to be celebrated - it only makes you at least 0.01% safer from the al-Qaeda group. And yes, before you say, I have lost somebody I loved in the 9/11 attack. I'm not saying it was bad to kill him, but even though he killed all of those people, I think it's disrespectful to celebrate over the death of someone.



^ as someone said



have fun with that

You are ridiculously naive. People are celebrating a symbolic victory. They have every right to celebrate the death of a tyrant - as our ancestors celebrated the death of Hitler.

And I doubt that they would've "hidden" a nuclear bomb in Europe A) They would just use it against us, no need for a reason, and B) They'd probably use it against America - not Europe, because Europe has countries that are not involved (Switzerland & several eastern european countries) and America started the war. And there's no way they could get it into the USA - and certainly not the UK (although Europe does have open borders so it could get through from Eastern Europe). Plus, how would they get the bomb? It's not like everyone has one lying around.

[AgnesIO]

You are ridiculously naive. People are celebrating a symbolic victory. They have every right to celebrate the death of a tyrant - as our ancestors celebrated the death of Hitler.

And I doubt that they would've "hidden" a nuclear bomb in Europe A) They would just use it against us, no need for a reason, and B) They'd probably use it against America - not Europe, because Europe has countries that are not involved (Switzerland & several eastern european countries) and America started the war. And there's no way they could get it into the USA - and certainly not the UK (although Europe does have open borders so it could get through from Eastern Europe). Plus, how would they get the bomb? It's not like everyone has one lying around.

And a decent nuclear bomb is not exactly going to be easy to sneak in to a country lol

[Kipp]

Jesus christ they took their time to find him. Well done to the US troops for finding him. He deserved it

[Conservative,]

The irony is that it was less than a mile from the Military Training Ground :/ Oh well, well done the US troops and now we just need to brace ourselves for the inevitable retaliation.

[Jessicrawrr]

some peoples views on this are craaaaaazy!
he was the one responsible for the 9/11 attacks, killing thousands of INNOCENT people, and he didn't deserve to die, or his death be celebrated?! if you was someone who, during any terrorist attacks that bin laden conducted, a family member/s were killed, you wouldn't want to celebrate the death of the persons responsible?
He deserved to die, if this isn't some publicity stunt- which hopefully it isn't, his death deserves to be celebrated, saying anything other makes you a fool.

Anyone saying this is the end to al qaeda, and terrosism is also a fool, this is the beginning to more terrorist attacks, a new leader will be picked if there already hasn't been one lined up for it.

rest in hell Osama Bin Laden.

[..ValOwnsYou..]

Thats false info. Osama died by The American soldiers coming into Pakistan and broke into their home and killed 1 woman, 2 gaurds, his son and Osama Himself. The funny thing is their house was right beside the Pakistani army base..
His body was thrown into the ocean, where it belongs. But it won't make a difference for Al-Qaeda , haha some people think its the end. Theres still going to be more attacks. But Osama deserves it for killing all those innocent people in the attacks on the USA and killing innocent christians in the middle east..

[GommeInc]

Makes sod all difference to me :P It'll be like someone shooting Obama, you'd just get a replacement and another upheaval on your hands :/ I also don't like the lack of proof...

[Jessicrawrr]

On BBC News there's videos of the room where osama was killed coming up, proof?

[Imosae]

http://i.imgur.com/yYDDw.jpg

fox news fail lol

lmao, a fail indeed.

[Stephen]

Can someone tell me why americans are dancing around chanting usa after hearing the news? Sort of asking for it

[:.:kaytay:.:]

I live in america, and now i feel so much safer now. I hope obama sends all the husband deployed in my neib. home now :D Osama, i hope you have a funtastic time in hell.

[..ValOwnsYou..]

http://i.imgur.com/yYDDw.jpg

fox news fail lol

LMFAO i spent 5 minutes laughing at that..

[GommeInc]

On BBC News there's videos of the room where osama was killed coming up, proof?
Isn't that the same as me going to Canterbury Cathedral, taking photos of the floor where Thomas Beckett was killed and calling the photos "proof he was killed"? Your sentence is basically the same thing - the location means nothing if his body isn't there :P


Can someone tell me why americans are dancing around chanting usa after hearing the news? Sort of asking for it
Ah well, if the US is attacked then they cannot really say they didn't ask for it :P

[Richie]

Can someone tell me why americans are dancing around chanting usa after hearing the news? Sort of asking for it

Because they are arrogant buffoons. We tell each other we live in a civilised world, can someone please explain to me how throwing party's celebrating his death is civilised. People are smiling, laughing because he died. To me that makes you as sick as him. Smiling at another humans death then thinking it is acceptable is totally irrational. He is dead, so be it, there is no need to rub it in their faces if there is any more attacks you might as well consider it as a provoked war.

[Stephen]

Americans love a war!!

Don't they realise that they are basically taunting the terrorists :S They're celebrating as if they've won the war but they're just gonna get hit back hard.

Anyway guys, picture below for proof that it really was him that was killed. Anyone who doesn't think he's dead are just silly.
Picture below IS disturbing and features a dead person.. so yeah little kids don't click the spoiler please
http://www.wheelie-bin-covers.co.uk/images/black_bin_single.jpg

[Lamz]

Please think about the point I was trying to make when I posted that picture... Yes he was a bad person who did awful things. & I do feel sorry for the family's who lost loved ones... but this is where i was trying to go with the "at least have some respect"

He was a man who FOLLOWED in what HE BELIEVED. They may not of been the BEST decisions but that's what he done. Lets take Homosexual's for example... Im not trying to direct this towards anybody its just an EXAMPLE.

They believe in Same Sex relationships & they don't think there is a problem with that (not saying there is). They believe that they aren't harming/hurting anybody, really... they are. they are hurting God & The Son Jesus Christ. I am not a strong Catholic & I don't believe in every single part of the bible but I believe in certain things. God & Jesus Christ didn't WANT single sex relationships hense why the "1st two people on earth" were ADAM & EVE ; Male &Female,why? to populate the earth, we where ALL born into sin and the reason for this is because Eve decided to eat the apple off the tree etc...

Ok so that's the little example of what I was talking about... From the religious side of things, homosexual's have betrayed God & Jesus but yet still they are respected in certain area's because they didn't hide what they believed in & how they felt. The same thing with Bin Laden. He wasn't scared to follow what he believed in and the way he felt. And that is the reason why I have SOME respect for him. If you was homosexual & the world decided that homosexuality was the worst thing ever & ALL homosexual's were killed. Would you like that?

[Agnostic Bear]

http://i53.tinypic.com/2evvlac.jpg
Atleast have SOME respect for the guy! he wasn't born a terrorist!

Terrorist sympathiser. Get out of my country I am not even joking.



He was a man who FOLLOWED in what HE BELIEVED. They may not of been the BEST decisions but that's what he done. Lets take Homosexual's for example... Im not trying to direct this towards anybody its just an EXAMPLE.

Homosexuality has been practised for thousands of years and is a very natural thing, blowing yourself up and killing thousands of innocents isn't.


They believe in Same Sex relationships & they don't think there is a problem with that (not saying there is). They believe that they aren't harming/hurting anybody, really... they are. they are hurting God & The Son Jesus Christ. I am not a strong Catholic & I don't believe in every single part of the bible but I believe in certain things. God & Jesus Christ didn't WANT single sex relationships hense why the "1st two people on earth" were ADAM & EVE ; Male &Female,why? to populate the earth, we where ALL born into sin and the reason for this is because Eve decided to eat the apple off the tree etc...

I think you are literally the first person on this forum I hate. You are naive and uninformed.


Ok so that's the little example of what I was talking about... From the religious side of things, homosexual's have betrayed God & Jesus but yet still they are respected in certain area's because they didn't hide what they believed in & how they felt. The same thing with Bin Laden. He wasn't scared to follow what he believed in and the way he felt. And that is the reason why I have SOME respect for him. If you was homosexual & the world decided that homosexuality was the worst thing ever & ALL homosexual's were killed. Would you like that?

Homosexuality and terrorism are in a completely different league, one brings happiness and satisfaction to those who are born that way, the other leaves you dead.

[Ajthedragon]

I'll only believe it when I see the body. Since when did America care about people's religious beliefs they kill anyway...

[Jessicrawrr]

Please think about the point I was trying to make when I posted that picture... Yes he was a bad person who did awful things. & I do feel sorry for the family's who lost loved ones... but this is where i was trying to go with the "at least have some respect"

He was a man who FOLLOWED in what HE BELIEVED. They may not of been the BEST decisions but that's what he done. Lets take Homosexual's for example... Im not trying to direct this towards anybody its just an EXAMPLE.

They believe in Same Sex relationships & they don't think there is a problem with that (not saying there is). They believe that they aren't harming/hurting anybody, really... they are. they are hurting God & The Son Jesus Christ. I am not a strong Catholic & I don't believe in every single part of the bible but I believe in certain things. God & Jesus Christ didn't WANT single sex relationships hense why the "1st two people on earth" were ADAM & EVE ; Male &Female,why? to populate the earth, we where ALL born into sin and the reason for this is because Eve decided to eat the apple off the tree etc...

Ok so that's the little example of what I was talking about... From the religious side of things, homosexual's have betrayed God & Jesus but yet still they are respected in certain area's because they didn't hide what they believed in & how they felt. The same thing with Bin Laden. He wasn't scared to follow what he believed in and the way he felt. And that is the reason why I have SOME respect for him. If you was homosexual & the world decided that homosexuality was the worst thing ever & ALL homosexual's were killed. Would you like that?

what?! You're comparing homosexuality to terrorism on the scale bin laden's? Are you crazy? Homosexuality is not harming ANYONE, only good things come out of that to be honest, Osama Bin Laden murdered thousands of innocent people because his religion told him to, yeah, fair enough he's following his religion like a good person, but when it comes to killing thousands upon thousands of innocent people I draw a line there! The highlighted bit at the end, you're saying what if, that isn't happening, and has very little chance of happening. You're basically saying what Bin Laden did is wrong anyway, comparing it to mass murder of Homosexuals.
You're points are very, very wrong.

[Recursion]

Please think about the point I was trying to make when I posted that picture... Yes he was a bad person who did awful things. & I do feel sorry for the family's who lost loved ones... but this is where i was trying to go with the "at least have some respect"

He was a man who FOLLOWED in what HE BELIEVED. They may not of been the BEST decisions but that's what he done. Lets take Homosexual's for example... Im not trying to direct this towards anybody its just an EXAMPLE.

They believe in Same Sex relationships & they don't think there is a problem with that (not saying there is). They believe that they aren't harming/hurting anybody, really... they are. they are hurting God & The Son Jesus Christ. I am not a strong Catholic & I don't believe in every single part of the bible but I believe in certain things. God & Jesus Christ didn't WANT single sex relationships hense why the "1st two people on earth" were ADAM & EVE ; Male &Female,why? to populate the earth, we where ALL born into sin and the reason for this is because Eve decided to eat the apple off the tree etc...

Ok so that's the little example of what I was talking about... From the religious side of things, homosexual's have betrayed God & Jesus but yet still they are respected in certain area's because they didn't hide what they believed in & how they felt. The same thing with Bin Laden. He wasn't scared to follow what he believed in and the way he felt. And that is the reason why I have SOME respect for him. If you was homosexual & the world decided that homosexuality was the worst thing ever & ALL homosexual's were killed. Would you like that?

Homosexuality is totaly irrelevent to this thread, and in terms of hurting people, they are not, go and read up on the gay uncle theory and the Kin Selection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin_selection), they really are quite interesting.

I agree with the Bear ^^^^^^ :@

[Eoin247]

Ah well, if the US is attacked then they cannot really say they didn't ask for it :P

True but that won't stop them from getting angry and attacking. :P


Americans love a war!!

Don't they realise that they are basically taunting the terrorists :S They're celebrating as if they've won the war but they're just gonna get hit back hard.

Anyway guys, picture below for proof that it really was him that was killed. Anyone who doesn't think he's dead are just silly.
Picture below IS disturbing and features a dead person.. so yeah little kids don't click the spoiler please
http://www.wheelie-bin-covers.co.uk/images/black_bin_single.jpg

I don't get the spoiler :(


The mindset of these terrorists and even many civilians has gone to such a stage that they hate westerners (particularly Americans) intensely. If you want any idea of their mindset then just consider this. The reward for his capture was in the tens of millions if i remember correctly. Yet nobody seemed to take upon that until at least now (if there even was an inside informer).

They all believe that if they "fight for islam" in this life then they will go to heaven with ten virgins and whatever when they die. The propoganda in the middle east is that the west is fighting islam rather than terrorism. Bundle that with a lack of education and you get a dire situation. I wonder if peace will ever be achieved before the middle east becomes more secular.

The funny thing is though, Osama didn't seem to believe in his own preaching that much. Considering he used a woman as a human shield, it just goes to show how much of a coward this man was and just how little he believed in his own words which sent so many other men to their death via suicide bombings.

[Lamz]

Okay... so your all gonna be arrogant because im probrably the only person brave enough to take Osama's side... That dude that was like "get out of my county" i honestly lol'ed so hard at that. who the **** are you??? its not YOUR country its Queen Elizabeth the 2nd's country.

ANYWAY!

Since you wanted to get all emotional over the homosexuality example... lets use a diffrent one. AMERICA & The UK going to Pakistan, Iraq & Afghanistan don't you think soldiers bomb's & weapons have killed innocent people of those country??? but no i forgotten that all you lot care about is "revenge" WHAT THE **** IS THIS GAINING!?!?!? British solders are being killed too, not just the "Taliban" when you read/watch the news and you see "The Taliban are Dead" you get excited don't you? don't you think that the family's of "The Taliban" are grieving. America & The UK are bigger fools than any other country's in the world. By killing "The Taliban" all they are doing is dropping to their levels.

Why did Tony Blair even get The UK especially England involved in the war? because he thought G.W. Bush was some kind of LEGEND and look where it got the UK, under terrorism plots, re session because there spending so much on weapons from other country's etc..

You don't have to agree with anything I have said because you are your own person do what you want when you want but yeah... I've forgiven Bin Ladden for his actions if he really is dead then may he rest in peace.

[Hecktix]

Okay... so your all gonna be arrogant because im probrably the only person brave enough to take Osama's side... That dude that was like "get out of my county" i honestly lol'ed so hard at that. who the **** are you??? its not YOUR country its Queen Elizabeth the 2nd's country.

ANYWAY!

Since you wanted to get all emotional over the homosexuality example... lets use a diffrent one. AMERICA & The UK going to Pakistan, Iraq & Afghanistan don't you think soldiers bomb's & weapons have killed innocent people of those country??? but no i forgotten that all you lot care about is "revenge" WHAT THE **** IS THIS GAINING!?!?!? British solders are being killed too, not just the "Taliban" when you read/watch the news and you see "The Taliban are Dead" you get excited don't you? don't you think that the family's of "The Taliban" are grieving. America & The UK are bigger fools than any other country's in the world. By killing "The Taliban" all they are doing is dropping to their levels.

Why did Tony Blair even get The UK especially England involved in the war? because he thought G.W. Bush was some kind of LEGEND and look where it got the UK, under terrorism plots, re session because there spending so much on weapons from other country's etc..

You don't have to agree with anything I have said because you are your own person do what you want when you want but yeah... I've forgiven Bin Ladden for his actions if he really is dead then may he rest in peace.

How can you forgive Bin Laden? Bin Laden ordered the killings of thousands and thousands of people purely to get one over on the Western world. Death is not the answer. America and the UK invaded Afghanistan to fight the people who were attacking the innocent people in the West, people get killed in Wars that's the sad way it is but the point is the intention of America and the UK when going to Afghanistan was not to kill innocent civilians, Bin Ladens aim was to kill innocent civilians and I personally cannot see how anyone can "forgive" him for that.

Question the intentions surrounding Iraq all you want - Iraq was subject to a National Inquiry in this country, the invasion of Afghanistan however was lawful and whilst I don't agree with the concept, I think the reason was quite clear.

All this speculation about Bin Laden perhaps dying ages ago or whatever - who cares the fact is he's definitely dead, although I agree with the person who said if they did kill him yesterday, I would be keeping away from places likely to be terrorist targets.

[cocaine]

Okay... so your all gonna be arrogant because im probrably the only person brave enough to take Osama's side... That dude that was like "get out of my county" i honestly lol'ed so hard at that. who the **** are you??? its not YOUR country its Queen Elizabeth the 2nd's country.

ANYWAY!

Since you wanted to get all emotional over the homosexuality example... lets use a diffrent one. AMERICA & The UK going to Pakistan, Iraq & Afghanistan don't you think soldiers bomb's & weapons have killed innocent people of those country??? but no i forgotten that all you lot care about is "revenge" WHAT THE **** IS THIS GAINING!?!?!? British solders are being killed too, not just the "Taliban" when you read/watch the news and you see "The Taliban are Dead" you get excited don't you? don't you think that the family's of "The Taliban" are grieving. America & The UK are bigger fools than any other country's in the world. By killing "The Taliban" all they are doing is dropping to their levels.

Why did Tony Blair even get The UK especially England involved in the war? because he thought G.W. Bush was some kind of LEGEND and look where it got the UK, under terrorism plots, re session because there spending so much on weapons from other country's etc..

You don't have to agree with anything I have said because you are your own person do what you want when you want but yeah... I've forgiven Bin Ladden for his actions if he really is dead then may he rest in peace.

you are actually the most naive person i've ever come across. who are you to question what intelligence our ex-prime minister had to base his actions on? who are you to assume that the UK simply followed america into the war, actually, who are you at all!? what do you think would have happened had britain and america among others not stepped in to fight terrorism? we probably would have seen more terrorist attacks in london as no one would be there to stop them. think about what you're saying, are you genuninely troubled that perhaps yours/your families lives have been saved from the fight against terrorism?

his aim was to kill civilians of the west. how the **** can you justify that in any way at all?

[Lamz]

you are actually the most naive person i've ever come across. who are you to question what intelligence our ex-prime minister had to base his actions on? who are you to assume that the UK simply followed america into the war, actually, who are you at all!? what do you think would have happened had britain and america among others not stepped in to fight terrorism? we probably would have seen more terrorist attacks in london as no one would be there to stop them. think about what you're saying, are you genuninely troubled that perhaps yours/your families lives have been saved from the fight against terrorism?

his aim was to kill civilians of the west. how the **** can you justify that in any way at all?

I am Lamar & I have every right to question the prime minister's actions because there is such thing as freedom of speech.

the reason why I am able to forgive him is because its THE PAST there is no way what he has done can be changed, I'm not scum. I'm not a child. I believe in FORGIVE & FORGET the armed forces going out to kill isn't solving a damn thing all its doing is making **** worst.

[Slowpoke]

Lemar, after reading your posts I'm utterly speechless. How you can even begin to try and justify terrorism is beyond me. And if we "forgive and forget" then what's to stop them doing it again? You're living in a world of ignorance and denial

[Hecktix]

I am Lamar & I have every right to question the prime minister's actions because there is such thing as freedom of speech.

the reason why I am able to forgive him is because its THE PAST there is no way what he has done can be changed, I'm not scum. I'm not a child. I believe in FORGIVE & FORGET the armed forces going out to kill isn't solving a damn thing all its doing is making **** worst.

So by removing those who believe manipulating people into thinking flying a plane into a building is completely normal and something God (Allah) will love you for, you think it isn't solving a damn thing?

I don't think you are thinking about this very well at all. Al Qaeda need to be stopped.

[Thom96]

About time.

Get rid of that scum. Hope he has an enjoyable life in hell.

Wooo!

I totally agree with you !!

[Agnostic Bear]

Okay... so your all gonna be arrogant because im probrably the only person brave enough to take Osama's side... That dude that was like "get out of my county" i honestly lol'ed so hard at that. who the **** are you??? its not YOUR country its Queen Elizabeth the 2nd's country.
I'm pretty certain she'd want you out of the country also, just like 90% of the British public. And as for who I am, I'm a rational, forward thinking, freedom loving Briton. Unlike yourself.


Since you wanted to get all emotional over the homosexuality example... lets use a diffrent one. AMERICA & The UK going to Pakistan, Iraq & Afghanistan don't you think soldiers bomb's & weapons have killed innocent people of those country??? but no i forgotten that all you lot care about is "revenge" WHAT THE **** IS THIS GAINING!?!?!? British solders are being killed too, not just the "Taliban" when you read/watch the news and you see "The Taliban are Dead" you get excited don't you? don't you think that the family's of "The Taliban" are grieving. America & The UK are bigger fools than any other country's in the world. By killing "The Taliban" all they are doing is dropping to their levels.
By killing "The Taliban" they are making our countries, and as a result you safer and more secure.



Why did Tony Blair even get The UK especially England involved in the war? because he thought G.W. Bush was some kind of LEGEND and look where it got the UK, under terrorism plots, re session because there spending so much on weapons from other country's etc..
He went to war to follow the Americans into the good fight, to bring security, democracy and freedom to the people of the middle east. We've been the target of terrorists for longer than the USA has existed. We know how to deal with them effectively and swiftly. The recession was because of the banks, not weapons. America manufactures a lot of its own weaponry anyway.


You don't have to agree with anything I have said because you are your own person do what you want when you want but yeah... I've forgiven Bin Ladden for his actions if he really is dead then may he rest in peace.
He really is dead and *Removed*] [/b] for "forgiving" his actions and I'll be damned if 90% of this forum and the western world doesn't agree with me.


the reason why I am able to forgive him is because its THE PAST there is no way what he has done can be changed, I'm not scum. I'm not a child. I believe in FORGIVE & FORGET the armed forces going out to kill isn't solving a damn thing all its doing is making **** worst.
*Removed* you are a child. The armed forces going out to protect our country is solving a lot of things, they're making us safer and protecting our freedoms (Albeit some are lost due to politicians).

I can 100% guarantee that if you met bin laden he would kill you there and then without even the tiniest fraction of a thought about forgiving you, he would feel no remorse and would most likely revel in the killing of an "infidel".

And as my closing words I will simply say this:
You are not British. I will never consider you my equal or a fellow countryman.

Edited by Catz (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not be rude to other members

[Lamz]

ok since none of you are understanding what im trying to say... ill say it in your language...


YAY HE IS DEAD WOOOOOOO LETS ALL PARTY HARD! :D

now ******* think about that... is celebrating solving anything??? Al Qaeda are gonna strike back & there gonna do it so well. I just hope that when they do and your life becomes tortured JUST like theirs. you'll remember the black kid on habboxforum who made valid points you were just too stubborn & blind to see. Im leaving this thread now because its just gonna end up in a battle between myself & all of you.
o/

[-:Undertaker:-]

you are actually the most naive person i've ever come across. who are you to question what intelligence our ex-prime minister had to base his actions on? who are you to assume that the UK simply followed america into the war, actually, who are you at all!? what do you think would have happened had britain and america among others not stepped in to fight terrorism? we probably would have seen more terrorist attacks in london as no one would be there to stop them. think about what you're saying, are you genuninely troubled that perhaps yours/your families lives have been saved from the fight against terrorism?

his aim was to kill civilians of the west. how the **** can you justify that in any way at all?

Actually its not all that simple, these people operate and gain members because of the wests actions in the Middle East. The idea that Bin Laden and co are motivated by the simple 'they wish to kill us because we are free' is total nonsense. For example, I believe it was one of the 9/11 hijackers who outlined that U.S. military bases in Saudi Arabia were a prime reason for attacking the United States hence why that base was later closed after 9/11.

The same now applies to Iraq and even Pakistan where U.S. drones now drop bombs which kill innocents, where do you think the family and friends of those who are killed will flock? they flock into the arms of the radicals such as Bin Laden. If you have lost your home, brothers, sisters, wife and children then what does a man have left? he will seek revenge upon those he views as responsible for the deaths.

Look at Libya now, if and when Gaddafi falls, what do you think his hundreds of thousands if not millions of supporters will seek to do? The CIA refers to this as blowback - the more we meddle in the Middle East/the Arab world then the likelyhood of blowback is greatly increased.

[Slowpoke]

No, your point wasn't that "celebrating was wrong". At all. So don't try and go back on what you've said because you're on a forum and your posts are still here for everyone to see.


so your all gonna be arrogant because im probrably the only person brave enough to take Osama's side


I've forgiven Bin Ladden for his actions if he really is dead then may he rest in peace

I do agree that celebrating so openly is probably a bad idea, however. It will only aggravate Al Qaeda

[Agnostic Bear]

ok since none of you are understanding what im trying to say... ill say it in your language...


YAY HE IS DEAD WOOOOOOO LETS ALL PARTY HARD! :D

Hells yeah, party hard, finally something we can agree on!


now ******* think about that... is celebrating solving anything??? Al Qaeda are gonna strike back & there gonna do it so well. I just hope that when they do and your life becomes tortured JUST like theirs. you'll remember the black kid on habboxforum who made valid points you were just too stubborn & blind to see. Im leaving this thread now because its just gonna end up in a battle between myself & all of you.
o/

Your points are invalid and false, move to any country that has a large Taliban population and see how long before they kill you for being black or from the west (Hell, that's if you don't bloody well join them). I'll get a job in the UKBA and force you back there when you come back crying for freedom.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

[cocaine]

I am Lamar & I have every right to question the prime minister's actions because there is such thing as freedom of speech.

the reason why I am able to forgive him is because its THE PAST there is no way what he has done can be changed, I'm not scum. I'm not a child. I believe in FORGIVE & FORGET the armed forces going out to kill isn't solving a damn thing all its doing is making **** worst.

*i am lamar and i do not have the slightest clue what i'm talking about

this is unreal. i said the INTELLIGENCE that our ex-prime minister based his actions on, not the actions itself. our forces being abroad protects mine and your freedoms and is neccessary in order to stop extremists from completely destroying our country inside out. what part of this do you not understand? its for YOUR benefit.

aww lamars quit, couldn't handle being wrong.

[Hecktix]

ok since none of you are understanding what im trying to say... ill say it in your language...


YAY HE IS DEAD WOOOOOOO LETS ALL PARTY HARD! :D

now ******* think about that... is celebrating solving anything??? Al Qaeda are gonna strike back & there gonna do it so well. I just hope that when they do and your life becomes tortured JUST like theirs. you'll remember the black kid on habboxforum who made valid points you were just too stubborn & blind to see. Im leaving this thread now because its just gonna end up in a battle between myself & all of you.
o/

If you read, not one person arguing you has said this. Several people have criticised Americans for celebrating his death. I personally agree that the death of the world's most wanted terrorist is a very good thing for our safety, it's not something I'd crack open a bottle of champagne for but it's by no means a bad thing.

I am generally, against the death penalty (and before Undertaker comes along and screams U CANT BE AGAINST DA DEATH PENALTY AND PRO ABORTION, I am against it due to the fact in common law, it is very hard to prove someone guilty or not guilty therefore it would not be safe or valid to execute those guilty of crimes under common law as the justice system is too unreliable, I'm also a strong believer that death is an escape from punishment, I don't follow the "It's wrong to kill" line in this argument) however in extreme cases like this, where there is no question of whether this man plotted and gave orders which led towards the death of thousands and thousands of innocent civilians, his life as a punishment for that I believe quite fair. He deserved to die for his crimes and anybody who doesn't think this needs to get their head examined. You are an insult to those people who died in terrorist attacks such as 9/11, 7/7 etc and you are an insult to their relatives, and I wouldn't be surprised if you had seriously offended some of those relatives who use this forum.

[Slowpoke]

Hells yeah, party hard, finally something we can agree on!

Don't get me wrong, I am ecstatic that bin Laden has been killed. And I implore all others who hate terrorism to be happy and rejoice because it's another step in the war against terrorism. But to show it so publically (the huge celebrations in Times Square and Washington) is ignorant and I believe it will only aggravate the situation.

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you read, not one person arguing you has said this. Several people have criticised Americans for celebrating his death. I personally agree that the death of the world's most wanted terrorist is a very good thing for our safety, it's not something I'd crack open a bottle of champagne for but it's by no means a bad thing.

I am generally, against the death penalty (and before Undertaker comes along and screams U CANT BE AGAINST DA DEATH PENALTY AND PRO ABORTION, I am against it due to the fact in common law, it is very hard to prove someone guilty or not guilty therefore it would not be safe or valid to execute those guilty of crimes under common law as the justice system is too unreliable, I'm also a strong believer that death is an escape from punishment, I don't follow the "It's wrong to kill" line in this argument) however in extreme cases like this, where there is no question of whether this man plotted and gave orders which led towards the death of thousands and thousands of innocent civilians, his life as a punishment for that I believe quite fair. He deserved to die for his crimes and anybody who doesn't think this needs to get their head examined. You are an insult to those people who died in terrorist attacks such as 9/11, 7/7 etc and you are an insult to their relatives, and I wouldn't be surprised if you had seriously offended some of those relatives who use this forum.

Does Bin Laden not deserve a trial (had it been possible)? I am more convinced Ian Huntley committed his crimes than I am Osama Bin Laden with his large network of followers and so forth, so why is the execution of somebody without a trial ok but the execution of somebody who is found guilty is totally out of the question? to add on to that, the issue of abortion is the killing of the innocent without trial which is something I gather you support, but in no circumstances will you support the killing of the guilty who has been found guilty by his peers.

The webs you weave for yourself.

[Hecktix]

Does Bin Laden not deserve a trial? I am more convinced Ian Huntley committed his crimes than I am Osama Bin Laden with his large network of followers and so forth, so why is the execution of somebody without a trial ok but the execution of somebody who is found guilty is totally out of the question? to add on to that, the issue of abortion is the killing of the innocent without trial which is something I gather you support, but in no circumstances will you support the killing of the guilty who has been found guilty by his peers.

As many cases have shown, justice systems are not always correct with their verdicts and this is why I do not believe that the death penalty is something that should be used within common law. I believe that Ian Huntley is suffering much more for his crimes in a cell than in a coffin, as would be backed up by his supposed suicide attempts. I don't know about you, but if I was never allowed to walk the streets as a free man again, I would gladly take death. Osamas crimes cannot be compared to Ian Huntleys and a trial is not necessary as Osama openly admitted what he did and what he was doing, there would be no point in wasting money trying Bin Laden for his crimes. I am pretty sure the US would have only had the option to kill Bin Laden, too - I don't think he's the sort of fella to "come along nicely" whilst being arrested, he's the most accomplished terrorist ever to existed and has managed to evade the US military and security services for 10 years.

When abortions occur, you are not taking a life, you are preventing the life from beginning - this is different to taking away something that already exists, the period in pregnancy when abortions are usually carried out usually involves little more than a few cells inside the body of the person that would have to subject their life to having a baby, whilst that is just a few cells and not a living being it is the woman's body to do what she likes with. Abortion is not taking away life, it is not punishing, it's preventing it from happening which is more than ok in certain circumstances, I would much rather a life be prevented than a child born into the wrong circumstances as I have studied the damage that the wrong circumstances can inflict upon a child.

[Maatt.]

In my opinion its not a great thing.....
Extremists will do crazy. and it could result in a big problem.


America has taken it too far, partying and all.
If Obama died and afgans were going crazy, america would want revenge.... wont Bin Ladens people?

[-:Undertaker:-]

As many cases have shown, justice systems are not always correct with their verdicts and this is why I do not believe that the death penalty is something that should be used within common law. I believe that Ian Huntley is suffering much more for his crimes in a cell than in a coffin, as would be backed up by his supposed suicide attempts.

If that is the case, surely the 'suffering' which you could class as mental torture in that kind of language is unjust as it could be the case that many are sentenced as guilty when they are infact innocent. Firstly you go on to justify your stance as 'because they could be sent to death when they are innocent' as a reason for opposing the death penalty, but then you go on to state that you find prison better because they then 'suffer' for their crimes - I don't see the consistency there, surely if prison were that bad as you make it out to be (of which it is not), then you would not want the possibility of sending innocents there.


I don't know about you, but if I was never allowed to walk the streets as a free man again, I would gladly take death. Osamas crimes cannot be compared to Ian Huntleys and a trial is not necessary as Osama openly admitted what he did and what he was doing, there would be no point in wasting money trying Bin Laden for his crimes. I am pretty sure the US would have only had the option to kill Bin Laden, too - I don't think he's the sort of fella to "come along nicely" whilst being arrested, he's the most accomplished terrorist ever to existed and has managed to evade the US military and security services for 10 years.

If you take that line, no trial and presumed guilty from the instant and not worthy of a trial - then you are simply following a dangerous path of which the most brutal regimes have followed, that 'because we know x is guilty then x does simply not deserve a trial' - what happens if, as you say above in your justification for opposing the death penalty, somebody is innocent but we *thought* they were certainly guilty and thus never gave them a trial?

I see your argument which can be summed up as 'I do not trust a jury or the courts provided with evidence to make a decision but I do trust my own belief/the belief of others and thus do not need the courts' - not only do you support the death penalty in a brutal manner (a firefight with bullets) without trial, but you support what is essentially vigilantism by the state - which is very very dangerous.

If that belief is so strong in the guilt of somebody, then it [the evidence] deserves to go to a trial. That is the idea of which a sound and responsible legal system is based upon. Once its gone (as it is slowing being eroded away) then nobody is safe.


When abortions occur, you are not taking a life, you are preventing the life from beginning - this is different to taking away something that already exists, the period in pregnancy when abortions are usually carried out usually involves little more than a few cells inside the body of the person that would have to subject their life to having a baby, whilst that is just a few cells and not a living being it is the woman's body to do what she likes with. Abortion is not taking away life, it is not punishing, it's preventing it from happening which is more than ok in certain circumstances, I would much rather a life be prevented than a child born into the wrong circumstances as I have studied the damage that the wrong circumstances can inflict upon a child.

De-humanise to justify killing, thats all you are doing. I must repeat Peter Hitchens on this 'that thing isn't a human, its a blob of jelly/cells' which later goes into 'that thing isn't a human, its a jew' - they both 'look like humans but are not humans' - it is alive and it is a human being, do not pretend otherwise. Do you ever hear a pregnant woman refer to her baby as 'my foetus'? no, you don't - its only used by those who wish to justify abortion.

All the arguments you put forward there are destroyed in this short debate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbaEXDl4uqU), I would strongly recommend a listen as I also used to advocate the very same arguments you advocate now, of which i've found I was wrong and it was all complete piffle. Type in 'aborted foetus' into google images and tell me that those 'things' which look like humans, are not humans when they quite clearly are.

[Slowpoke]

In my opinion its not a great thing.....
If Obama died and afgans were going crazy, america would want revenge.... wont Bin Ladens people?

Oh my god I'd love some sort of debate/discussion about this.

[Maatt.]

I mean.. its good he cant bring evil. But wont others. they will want revenge from him.

[Hecktix]

If that is the case, surely the 'suffering' which you could class as mental torture in that kind of language is unjust as it could be the case that many are sentenced as guilty when they are infact innocent. Firstly you go on to justify your stance as 'because they could be sent to death when they are innocent' as a reason for opposing the death penalty, but then you go on to state that you find prison better because they then 'suffer' for their crimes - I don't see the consistency there, surely if prison were that bad as you make it out to be (of which it is not), then you would not want the possibility of sending innocents there.

If you take that line, no trial and presumed guilty from the instant and not worthy of a trial - then you are simply following a dangerous path of which the most brutal regimes have followed, that 'because we know x is guilty then x does simply not deserve a trial' - what happens if, as you say above in your justification for opposing the death penalty, somebody is innocent but we *thought* they were certainly guilty and thus never gave them a trial?


I believe that long-term prison sentences are a suitable punishment yes, I don't believe in short term prison sentences - no but that's for a different discussion. My points are linked, you cannot be sure, even when a justice system gives the verdict of guilty that the person is guilty. If the decision is wrong and they are in prison, they can be released - the punishment of never being able to walk a free man again is lifted. You may not agree that being imprisoned for life is a bad thing (oh and by life, I mean life, I am a full believer in life meaning life in prison, not shabby 15 years) but that's your opinion and you're welcome to have that opinion, my opinion is that not being able to walk a free man is a suitable punishment and can be reversed should it need to be, death on the other hand cannot.




I see your argument which can be summed up as 'I do not trust a jury or the courts provided with evidence to make a decision but I do trust my own belief/the belief of others and thus do not need the courts' - not only do you support the death penalty in a brutal manner (a firefight with bullets) without trial, but you support what is essentially vigilantism by the state - which is very very dangerous If that belief is so strong in the guilt of somebody, then it [the evidence] deserves to go to a trial. That is the idea of which a sound and responsible legal system is based upon. Once its gone (as it is slowing being eroded away) then nobody is safe.Bin Laden was killed in a Military manner, we cannot be certain of the circumstances involving his death however I'm sure America would have loved to see Bin Laden stand trial and be put in the electric chair or hung. Saddam Hussein had a trial, remember? Although his crimes were of a different nature and he was tried by the "Iraqi" Government, he had a trial - I'm sure America would have loved to arrest Bin Laden and go down that route however I can't see the capture of Bin Laden being a free and simple thing, it would have been a battle and I don't think anybody can deny that:


At the climax, at the end of a 40-minute firefight,

This suggests there was a fight, there would be no way Bin Laden's protection would have let them take him and to do so would have been stupid. Do you object to armed Police firing weapons at an offender waving a gun around? So why here? Obviously in an idealistic world, Bin Laden would have been captured and tried for his crimes, but when Bin Laden and his protectors are firing back at you - it's definitely not that easy, lol. They weren't gonna say "okay, we'll come back another day we can't get him alive today", were they? He deserved to die (and would have died when he was found guilty in a trial) so what's the difference? I'm not denying that a trial would have been fairer, and as I said in an ideal world he'd have put his hands up and said "yes ive been on the run for 10 years you can take me now" and he'd have sat a trial and been executed following a guilty verdict.




De-humanise to justify killing, thats all you are doing. I must repeat Peter Hitchens on this 'that thing isn't a human, its a blob of jelly/cells' which later goes into 'that thing isn't a human, its a jew' - they both 'look like humans but are not humans' - it is alive and it is a human being, do not pretend otherwise. Do you ever hear a pregnant woman refer to her baby as 'my foetus'? no, you don't - its only used by those who wish to justify abortion.

All the arguments you put forward there are destroyed in this short debate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbaEXDl4uqU), I would strongly recommend a listen as I also used to advocate the very same arguments you advocate now, of which i've found I was wrong and it was all complete piffle.I'm sure there are oppositions to my argument, after all it's my opinion and I'm entitled to that opinion - it doesn't mean it's wrong it's what I believe, I'm quite aware that a foetus is a human being, part of my degree included lectures on pre-natal development so don't make out I don't know anything, it's my opinion that the prevention of life in the form of abortion is moral as generally this abortion is preventing a child from suffering. This whole argument boils down to what you believe life is, I mean you go on as if your opinion (and the opinion of your beloved Peter Hitchens) is gospel and the truth, hell you're as bad as religious extremists who believe the bible is 100% fact. It's my opinion that the death penalty is okay in certain circumstances and not in others, and it's my opinion that a life cannot be taken until that life has begun and it is my opinion that what we know as "life" doesn't begin until birth, I'm aware the foetus is a living organism but it's my opinion that it does not constitute a "life" until birth. You nor anybody else can say my opinion is wrong, because it's my opinion - you can disagree with me, but you cannot claim I'm wrong. You are so narrow minded and refuse to allow anybody to have a view different to yours, open your bloody eyes man.

[AgnesIO]

I am Lamar & I have every right to question the prime minister's actions because there is such thing as freedom of speech.

the reason why I am able to forgive him is because its THE PAST there is no way what he has done can be changed, I'm not scum. I'm not a child. I believe in FORGIVE & FORGET the armed forces going out to kill isn't solving a damn thing all its doing is making **** worst.

do you forgive hitler

[GommeInc]

I'm sure America would have loved to arrest Bin Laden and go down that route however I can't see the capture of Bin Laden being a free and simple thing, it would have been a battle and I don't think anybody can deny that:
This confused me, and possibly you too. Apparently he wasn't as guarded as we would have thought - the US Navy SEALS lost no men during the operation and took out loads of his guards (by loads it's reported to be only a handful) and there's no mention of any further fighting. It's also odd that they managed to get a body onto a helicopter which would of taken just as long to drag a man kicking and screaming onto it. They do not appear to mention that he was killed because he was armed and dangerous, they seemed to just hint that they shot him because they could, and took out a potentially innocent/useless target at the same time.

In other news, I think Lamar is mixing forgiveness with closure. His actions were unforgiveable and to suggest he could be forgiven is a bit premature. IF a man were to kill your friends and family, would you forgive him once he had been killed or captured because "He was following a dream?"

[Hecktix]

This confused me, and possibly you too. Apparently he wasn't as guarded as we would have thought - the US Navy SEALS lost no men during the operation and took out loads of his guards (by loads it's reported to be only a handful) and there's no mention of any further fighting. It's also odd that they managed to get a body onto a helicopter which would of taken just as long to drag a man kicking and screaming onto it. They do not appear to mention that he was killed because he was armed and dangerous, they seemed to just hint that they shot him because they could, and took out a potentially innocent/useless target at the same time.


Just because they didn't have any casualties doesnt mean his guards didn't fight back - it means that the Americans simply beat them :P Whether Bin Laden was armed or not (I imagine he may have been) I do think it would have been very risky to take him alive, riskier than taking the body. It's quite clear that the most probable form of events is that they invaded the place he was staying, shot dead any guards guarding him (who were no doubtedly armed, whether he was guarded as well as we thought or not there would have been some form of weapons there) shot him dead and removed him. This is what I gather from this article here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13257330

There are several suggestions of Osama fighting back, a US helicopter fell from the sky (it's unclear what caused it however), and there's this quote from the US counterterrorism advisor:


"The concern was that Bin Laden would oppose any type of capture operation. Indeed, he did. It was a firefight. He, therefore, was killed in that firefight, and that's when the remains were removed," said Mr Brennan.

However, the article does say other US officials have denied Bin Laden fought back - which does pose questions about whether the US are being entirely honest about the operation. There are also further contradictions explained later in the articles. I'm inclined to believe there was either a fight, or there's something dodgy about what went on, however if there was a fight the only option was to take Osama dead then this is perfectly within my moral beliefs. If not, I agree that Osama being dead is a good thing and would like to know further facts before judging the morality of an assassination.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I believe that long-term prison sentences are a suitable punishment yes, I don't believe in short term prison sentences - no but that's for a different discussion. My points are linked, you cannot be sure, even when a justice system gives the verdict of guilty that the person is guilty. If the decision is wrong and they are in prison, they can be released - the punishment of never being able to walk a free man again is lifted. You may not agree that being imprisoned for life is a bad thing (oh and by life, I mean life, I am a full believer in life meaning life in prison, not shabby 15 years) but that's your opinion and you're welcome to have that opinion, my opinion is that not being able to walk a free man is a suitable punishment and can be reversed should it need to be, death on the other hand cannot.

I'm not disputing that you have an opinion, i'm arguing against your opinion.

Now as the death penalty as its drifting below into other topics, if it is the case that Bin Laden was not armed and that he could have been taken alive - would you then be prepared to backtrack and say that yes, the execution of Osama Bin Laden was wrong? Do you also accept (as a non-believer in the death penalty), that the execution of Saddam Hussein was wrong?


Bin Laden was killed in a Military manner, we cannot be certain of the circumstances involving his death however I'm sure America would have loved to see Bin Laden stand trial and be put in the electric chair or hung. Saddam Hussein had a trial, remember? Although his crimes were of a different nature and he was tried by the "Iraqi" Government, he had a trial - I'm sure America would have loved to arrest Bin Laden and go down that route however I can't see the capture of Bin Laden being a free and simple thing, it would have been a battle and I don't think anybody can deny that:

I very much doubt that considering Bin Laden was an ex-CIA asset but thats a whole other story. Although this raises an important point, if Bin Laden was armed (as expected) why was he killed when Saddam Hussein was armed but was disarmed and kept alive? Hussein was not shot on sight despite being armed himself, as we would expect.


This suggests there was a fight, there would be no way Bin Laden's protection would have let them take him and to do so would have been stupid. Do you object to armed Police firing weapons at an offender waving a gun around? So why here? Obviously in an idealistic world, Bin Laden would have been captured and tried for his crimes, but when Bin Laden and his protectors are firing back at you - it's definitely not that easy, lol. They weren't gonna say "okay, we'll come back another day we can't get him alive today", were they? He deserved to die (and would have died when he was found guilty in a trial) so what's the difference? I'm not denying that a trial would have been fairer, and as I said in an ideal world he'd have put his hands up and said "yes ive been on the run for 10 years you can take me now" and he'd have sat a trial and been executed following a guilty verdict.

I've made my stance on this clear that I agree with armed action in the event that he was putting up a fight, rather i'm pointing out the hypocrisy of many of the usually anti-death penalty (of which you belong to) while you support armed squads carrying out an execution without trial/the abortion issue - but under no circumstances do you consider that the death penalty applied after a jury of peers has found the murderer guilty is right. Infact, often when I suggest that the likes of Ian Huntley should be sent to death its met with cries of 'how barbaric!/wrong as they could be innocent' yet in this instance, all that supposed morality is dropped by the likes of yourself.


I'm sure there are oppositions to my argument, after all it's my opinion and I'm entitled to that opinion - it doesn't mean it's wrong it's what I believe, I'm quite aware that a foetus is a human being, part of my degree included lectures on pre-natal development so don't make out I don't know anything, it's my opinion that the prevention of life in the form of abortion is moral as generally this abortion is preventing a child from suffering. This whole argument boils down to what you believe life is, I mean you go on as if your opinion (and the opinion of your beloved Peter Hitchens) is gospel and the truth, hell you're as bad as religious extremists who believe the bible is 100% fact. It's my opinion that the death penalty is okay in certain circumstances and not in others, and it's my opinion that a life cannot be taken until that life has begun and it is my opinion that what we know as "life" doesn't begin until birth, I'm aware the foetus is a living organism but it's my opinion that it does not constitute a "life" until birth. You nor anybody else can say my opinion is wrong, because it's my opinion - you can disagree with me, but you cannot claim I'm wrong.

Or in other words, 'I don't have a suitable response to the abortion argument so now i'm wound up and have to assert that everything I state is my opinion' - not that I was disputing what you type isn't your opinion in the first place. I never stated it you don't have a right to an opinion, I was stating why the opinion you hold is wrong and my reply was inviting you to prove my points wrong, something you've failed to do. As for Mr Hitchens, you don't know what I agree with or disagree with concerning his opinions - infact, I very much doubt you know what his opinions on many subjects are anyway without consulting wikipedia - so please don't make that assertion as trying to make me out to be some kind of deluded religious follower of his - rather thats you judging from the reply you've given back on abortion and on past topics concerning the Labour Party; we had it the other day, you harping on about NHS reforms and the Tories - when I pointed out that the same sort of thing had happened under the last Labour government, you blindly ignored this.

Unwilling to consider changing opinion when left speechless? - thats you my friend.


You are so narrow minded and refuse to allow anybody to have a view different to yours, open your bloody eyes man.

Whenever I disagree with you and others, I always put my opinion across and ask for you to prove it wrong - whether its over the Conservatives being the same as Labour or any other topic. The difference between us both, is that I barely ever become stuck in the corner (as you just have found yourself) and thus I never have to resort to stating 'WELL THATS MY OPINION YOUR JUST SO NARROW MINDED' - quite the opposite, i'm willing to listen and debate the other side of the argument.

You on the other hand, simply do not and have thus become wound up.

[GommeInc]

Just because they didn't have any casualties doesnt mean his guards didn't fight back - it means that the Americans simply beat them :P Whether Bin Laden was armed or not (I imagine he may have been) I do think it would have been very risky to take him alive, riskier than taking the body. It's quite clear that the most probable form of events is that they invaded the place he was staying, shot dead any guards guarding him (who were no doubtedly armed, whether he was guarded as well as we thought or not there would have been some form of weapons there) shot him dead and removed him. This is what I gather from this article here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13257330

There are several suggestions of Osama fighting back, a US helicopter fell from the sky (it's unclear what caused it however), and there's this quote from the US counterterrorism advisor:



However, the article does say other US officials have denied Bin Laden fought back - which does pose questions about whether the US are being entirely honest about the operation. There are also further contradictions explained later in the articles. I'm inclined to believe there was either a fight, or there's something dodgy about what went on, however if there was a fight the only option was to take Osama dead then this is perfectly within my moral beliefs. If not, I agree that Osama being dead is a good thing and would like to know further facts before judging the morality of an assassination.
Your point illustrates what's so frustrating about the whole thing :P A few news articles and programmes say different things to yours and vice versa. I even think the BBC are reporting differently on the event :S

I'm simply going by the lack of information that there was "much of a fight", as there doesn't to be much information coming out about how many guards there were and it is suggested that the area wasn't that guarded, particularly when he was found in Pakistan so he couldn't have too many guards as it would rouse suspision, something that is reported by locals living around that area - how they knew someone special must of been living there, and how they heard speeches with the name of the terror cell (I can't remember what it was though, "something-thea" :S) AK-47s were also used by his guards too, while the US troops were using M4s and night vision goggles, which no doubt gave them an advantage :P

What's also interesting is this downed helicopter. Loads of places are reporting it as a technical hiccup rather than it being shot down so there is no correct answers as of yet, if ever there will be :/

I've read so many articles and not many of them say there was too much of a fight, or a fight that went on long after he was shot, especially when they say the fighting went on for 40 minutes. It does make you question IF there wasn't much of a fight, why didn't they drag him out for trial? I guess this could merge in with reports that Pakistani aircraft were being scrambled to the area, but no one has made that link yet.

Either way, the whole operation is such a mess at the moment :/

EDIT: Apparently the US are debating over releasing a picture of his body. So I guess that'll make up for evidence that he is dead :P

[rld]

Lets all come to one understanding. We are all glad.

[Hecktix]

Dan, I've just logged in to post this message back to you so your point doesn't look to be true, but no - I "ignore you" (aka don't reply) because I don't have the time to go round in circles with you, you present your arguments clearly and add background & evidence to your posts and it's something you enjoy doing. Don't say you listen to peoples opinions because you don't and many, many people on this forum have told me that they simply refuse to reply to your posts most of the time because you do, go round in circles or take the thread off topic. Unfortunately, I have more commitments on this forum and off it which prevent me from spending time going round in the circles with you (be assured if I did have the time, I would). I will happily state my opinion and I will happily argue against you and I will happily state that your opinion differs to mine, however you go around this forum with the attitude that you are always right and everybody else's opinion is invalid, this puts a lot of people off posting with you. I think the phrase is "agree to disagree", which is something I have to do because quite frankly I don't have the time to follow your circles, as much as I'd love to, perhaps one summer when I've resigned from my roles here at Habbox it's a past-time I will take up ;), so please, cut the patronising attitude it's just fueling the negative opinion half of this forum has of you.

[AgnesIO]

I'm not disputing that you have an opinion, i'm arguing against your opinion.

Now as the death penalty as its drifting below into other topics, if it is the case that Bin Laden was not armed and that he could have been taken alive - would you then be prepared to backtrack and say that yes, the execution of Osama Bin Laden was wrong? Do you also accept (as a non-believer in the death penalty), that the execution of Saddam Hussein was wrong?



I very much doubt that considering Bin Laden was an ex-CIA asset but thats a whole other story. Although this raises an important point, if Bin Laden was armed (as expected) why was he killed when Saddam Hussein was armed but was disarmed and kept alive? Hussein was not shot on sight despite being armed himself, as we would expect.



I've made my stance on this clear that I agree with armed action in the event that he was putting up a fight, rather i'm pointing out the hypocrisy of many of the usually anti-death penalty (of which you belong to) while you support armed squads carrying out an execution without trial/the abortion issue - but under no circumstances do you consider that the death penalty applied after a jury of peers has found the murderer guilty is right. Infact, often when I suggest that the likes of Ian Huntley should be sent to death its met with cries of 'how barbaric!/wrong as they could be innocent' yet in this instance, all that supposed morality is dropped by the likes of yourself.



Or in other words, 'I don't have a suitable response to the abortion argument so now i'm wound up and have to assert that everything I state is my opinion' - not that I was disputing what you type isn't your opinion in the first place. I never stated it you don't have a right to an opinion, I was stating why the opinion you hold is wrong and my reply was inviting you to prove my points wrong, something you've failed to do. As for Mr Hitchens, you don't know what I agree with or disagree with concerning his opinions - infact, I very much doubt you know what his opinions on many subjects are anyway without consulting wikipedia - so please don't make that assertion as trying to make me out to be some kind of deluded religious follower of his - rather thats you judging from the reply you've given back on abortion and on past topics concerning the Labour Party; we had it the other day, you harping on about NHS reforms and the Tories - when I pointed out that the same sort of thing had happened under the last Labour government, you blindly ignored this.

Unwilling to consider changing opinion when left speechless? - thats you my friend.



Whenever I disagree with you and others, I always put my opinion across and ask for you to prove it wrong - whether its over the Conservatives being the same as Labour or any other topic. The difference between us both, is that I barely ever become stuck in the corner (as you just have found yourself) and thus I never have to resort to stating 'WELL THATS MY OPINION YOUR JUST SO NARROW MINDED' - quite the opposite, i'm willing to listen and debate the other side of the argument.

You on the other hand, simply do not and have thus become wound up.

The issue is you always think you are right, not that others simply can't fight/debate with you. People just get ******* bored of your posts.

---

Total respect to 'Roryy' hit the nail on the head :L

[Hecktix]

The issue is you always think you are right, not that others simply can't find. People just get ******* bored of your posts.

---

Total respect to 'Roryy' hit the nail on the head :L

Naturally, one is going to believe their opinion is correct or that would not be their opinion, Dan's problem is he refuses to see that other people are entitled to their opinion (or at least, that's what his mannerisms in his posts portray, he claims we are entitled to our opinions himself, but if you read the post you quoted, does he really?)

[-:Undertaker:-]

Dan, I've just logged in to post this message back to you so your point doesn't look to be true, but no - I "ignore you" (aka don't reply) because I don't have the time to go round in circles with you, you present your arguments clearly and add background & evidence to your posts and it's something you enjoy doing. Don't say you listen to peoples opinions because you don't and many, many people on this forum have told me that they simply refuse to reply to your posts most of the time because you do, go round in circles or take the thread off topic. Unfortunately, I have more commitments on this forum and off it which prevent me from spending time going round in the circles with you (be assured if I did have the time, I would). I will happily state my opinion and I will happily argue against you and I will happily state that your opinion differs to mine, however you go around this forum with the attitude that you are always right and everybody else's opinion is invalid, this puts a lot of people off posting with you. I think the phrase is "agree to disagree", which is something I have to do because quite frankly I don't have the time to follow your circles, as much as I'd love to, perhaps one summer when I've resigned from my roles here at Habbox it's a past-time I will take up ;), so please, cut the patronising attitude it's just fueling the negative opinion half of this forum has of you.

I'm not going around in circles at all, if you are left speechless then at least admit it - as I have in the past and recently with abortion.


The issue is you always think you are right, not that others simply can't fight/debate with you. People just get ******* bored of your posts.

---

Total respect to 'Roryy' hit the nail on the head :L

Is it really that, or is it people having no response to what I say as with above to the usual response of 'well thats my opinion'? I wonder. I myself only changed my opinion on abortion a few months ago after I had nothing left to argue and was left speechless - thus I accepted I was wrong and changed opinions. Unlike yourself Milestone, the guy who refused to debate the Libyan issue (when at least others would) and resorted to 'you get all your opinions from the media' - the same media who were in support of the Libyan conflict when I was arguing against it.. hmm.


Naturally, one is going to believe their opinion is correct or that would not be their opinion, Dan's problem is he refuses to see that other people are entitled to their opinion (or at least, that's what his mannerisms in his posts portray, he claims we are entitled to our opinions himself, but if you read the post you quoted, does he really?)

You are confusing me accepting you have an opinion to me questioning and trying to pick holes in your opinion, which I have done - opinions are usually based on strength and being able to back them up, something you've not been able to do amid my questioning hence why you've now resorted to the usual 'thats my opinion'.

[Conservative,]

Interesting thing just came up on the BBC local news (for me):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13268834

Trying to get us already eh?

[AgnesIO]

I'm not going around in circles at all, if you are left speechless then at least admit it - as I have in the past and recently with abortion.



Is it really that, or is it people having no response to what I say as with above to the usual response of 'well thats my opinion'? I wonder. I myself only changed my opinion on abortion a few months ago after I had nothing left to argue and was left speechless - thus I accepted I was wrong and changed opinions. Unlike yourself Milestone, the guy who refused to debate the Libyan issue (when at least others would) and resorted to 'you get all your opinions from the media' - the same media who were in support of the Libyan conflict when I was arguing against it.. hmm.

Yes it is that, Dan. People get bored as WHATEVER they say, you refuse to accept their opinion. You don't always have to be right, infact you know what? People just stop replying to you - is that what you want? I wouldn't mind, but whatever you think you are not always right, your opinion is not always best, so why not accept that occasionally? It isn't that I refuse to debate it, it is that I cannot be bothered to write an entire essay to you, for yu to simply write a load of rubbish about why I am completely wrong and why my opinion is wrong.

So actually, it really is that.

---------- Post added 03-05-2011 at 05:07 PM ----------


Interesting thing just came up on the BBC local news (for me):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13268834

Trying to get us already eh?

Not necessarily - I saw this when it came up, and although obviously t is suspicious that this happens just after his death, they could have been doing whatever before hand - just they have only just been caught due to security being stepped up.

[Hecktix]

I'm not going around in circles at all, if you are left speechless then at least admit it - as I have in the past and recently with abortion.



Is it really that, or is it people having no response to what I say as with above to the usual response of 'well thats my opinion'? I wonder. I myself only changed my opinion on abortion a few months ago after I had nothing left to argue and was left speechless - thus I accepted I was wrong and changed opinions. Unlike yourself Milestone, the guy who refused to debate the Libyan issue (when at least others would) and resorted to 'you get all your opinions from the media' - the same media who were in support of the Libyan conflict when I was arguing against it.. hmm.



You are confusing me accepting you have an opinion to me questioning and trying to pick holes in your opinion, which I have done - opinions are usually based on strength and being able to back them up, something you've not been able to do amid my questioning hence why you've now resorted to the usual 'thats my opinion'.

No Dan, not speechless, each time I have failed to reply to you has simply been because I do not have the time to do so, you fail to understand that, just like you fail to understand the validity of anothers opinion. I could argue with you about abortion all day, but that's not going to help me pass my stats exam tomorrow, which is why I am leaving you short responses now explaining exactly why I am not replying to you, I don't have time to.


Interesting thing just came up on the BBC local news (for me):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13268834

Trying to get us already eh?

These things happen on a weekly basis, Robbie, it's nothing, just terrorist-wannabes :P

[Conservative,]

No Dan, not speechless, each time I have failed to reply to you has simply been because I do not have the time to do so, you fail to understand that, just like you fail to understand the validity of anothers opinion. I could argue with you about abortion all day, but that's not going to help me pass my stats exam tomorrow, which is why I am leaving you short responses now explaining exactly why I am not replying to you, I don't have time to.



These things happen on a weekly basis, Robbie, it's nothing, just terrorist-wannabes :P

Yeah I know, just coincidental that they did it at that time though :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yes it is that, Dan. People get bored as WHATEVER they say, you refuse to accept their opinion. You don't always have to be right, infact you know what? People just stop replying to you - is that what you want? I wouldn't mind, but whatever you think you are not always right, your opinion is not always best, so why not accept that occasionally? It isn't that I refuse to debate it, it is that I cannot be bothered to write an entire essay to you, for yu to simply write a load of rubbish about why I am completely wrong and why my opinion is wrong.

So actually, it really is that.

Why would I 'accept' an opinion (by accept i'm sure you mean fall into agreement with it) when they fail to back that opinion up to the counter argument that i've put across? If what I write is rubbish and i'm wrong, you should be able to leave me speechless.

And you can bet that, if you do leave me speechless - i'll accept I was wrong gracefully, rather than resorting to 'well thats my opinion'.

[-Danube-]

No matter what people say, this is a massive blow to Al Qaeda and all it's affiliates. Yes, Bin Laden did basically nothing in terms of ruling Al Qaeda post 9/11 really but it was his name that was feared by all and his tapes and videos kept Al Qaeda going and seeming strong. The person who they are saying is incharge now, has basically been in charge from the very beginning. He was the man who radicalised Bin Laden in the first place, Bin Laden was just a string puppet to him. Nothing will change in the terms of running Al Qaeda but it is seriously wounded, they have lost their 'spokes man' they'll probably find it harder to send out their messages of Terror and Fear from now on.

I think it would also start arguments within Al Qaeda itself, some people will be so passionate about the death of Bin Laden that they will not want to wait to avenge his death, so i'm sure they will rush into some kind of plot, which they will quickly get caught for. This will annoy people within Al Qaeda as they will all have separate views of how they want to deal with this situation.

I think the media are again trying to strike us all with fear by saying there will be loads of counter strikes and this whole situation has changed nothing, i think this is seriously flawed and just creating drama to sell papers. This has been a serious blow to Al Qaeda.

I also think it was correct for them to shoot Bin Laden on the spot, if he was captured and put on trial, it would have caused so many more problems. There would have been loads of kidnaps and randsomes going out to order the release of Bin Laden. If Al Qaeda knew that he was still alive, they would have done everything in their power to see him released.

There is no trial big enough, no punishment brutal enough to make up for what Bin Laden did, so i feel capturing him would have just been a serious waste of time, money and probably further lives. I would have loved Bin Laden to pay for what he did, but he simple wouldn't have been able to be, so death was the best option for him.

I'm very Anti death penalty (as of an experience i went through last year) but this is one occasion were i would contradict myself and say he should have been killed.

At least we are rid of such an evil man. I heard he made one of his wives' take a few shots for him, how selfish and sick. 1 more life gone on his behalf.

[Hecktix]

Why would I 'accept' an opinion (by accept i'm sure you mean fall into agreement with it) when they fail to back that opinion up to the counter argument that i've put across? If what I write is rubbish and i'm wrong, you should be able to leave me speechless.

And you can bet that, if you do leave me speechless - i'll accept I was wrong gracefully, rather than resorting to 'well thats my opinion'.

Definitions of "Opinion"

a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty

a message expressing a belief about something; the expression of a belief that is held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

That to me, would suggest one cannot prove an opinion wrong ;).

---------- Post added 03-05-2011 at 05:14 PM ----------


Yeah I know, just coincidental that they did it at that time though :P

Ah, no. Not coincidental they did it at that time, coincidental that the media bothered to report it :P if it had happened last Monday, it probably wouldn't have been in the news (or even released to the media, for that matter).

[AgnesIO]

Why would I 'accept' an opinion (by accept i'm sure you mean fall into agreement with it) when they fail to back that opinion up to the counter argument that i've put across? If what I write is rubbish and i'm wrong, you should be able to leave me speechless.

And you can bet that, if you do leave me speechless - i'll accept I was wrong gracefully, rather than resorting to 'well thats my opinion'.

Apart from Abortion, is there anything else you have ever been wrong about?

Dan, the reason we say 'well that is my opinion', is because we do not have time to reply to you, but if we don't reply you just say 'THAT SHOWS I AM RIGHT!' - what do you want? Us to reply and point out it is our opinion, and no matter what you say can change that - or would you like us to ignore your posts (in which case you have proven us wrong, and you are the almighty god of everything)? Please help, me as I don't understand what you would prefer. Those are your two options, by the way :rolleyes:

----

Dan (danube) you got that spot on there. Obviously the media will make any terrorist find 'the worlds biggest, most scary revenge attack ever', but we need to remember that although the threat obviously will be higher for a while, since Bin Laden has been killed, while it is higher so is security. The government officials know what to expect, and where a terrorist threat is raised, so it the level of security.

Taking Bin Laden alive, as you say, would have simply caused all sorts of problems - with Al Qaeda and Osama fans doing anything to get him back - however since he is dead, they can try what they like, they won't get him back alive and well!

[-:Undertaker:-]

Definitions of "Opinion"



That to me, would suggest one cannot prove an opinion wrong ;).

---------- Post added 03-05-2011 at 05:14 PM ----------



Ah, no. Not coincidental they did it at that time, coincidental that the media bothered to report it :P if it had happened last Monday, it probably wouldn't have been in the news (or even released to the media, for that matter).

When confronted with evidence that should change your opinion, if you wish to be technical, the rational thing to do would be to change stance on the issue would it not? if not, then you can admit you are not guided by rationality and thus take back the comment that I am the 'narrow minded one'? yes?


Apart from Abortion, is there anything else you have ever been wrong about?

Dan, the reason we say 'well that is my opinion', is because we do not have time to reply to you, but if we don't reply you just say 'THAT SHOWS I AM RIGHT!' - what do you want? Us to reply and point out it is our opinion, and no matter what you say can change that - or would you like us to ignore your posts (in which case you have proven us wrong, and you are the almighty god of everything)? Please help, me as I don't understand what you would prefer. Those are your two options, by the way :rolleyes:

It does, because if you were truly 'winning' the debates and had me scratching around for answers/rational argument, then you would continue (and should always) until I was lost for words - just as with the staff member a few pages back who was arguing in favour of Bin Laden, you all kept going at him because he was scratching around for reasonable points of which he couldn't find.

What would I like? either for you to leave me speechless and from that i've then learnt something, or in the case that I leave you speechless that you at least accept that instead of resorting to 'my opinion' and hopefully you'd then go off and look into the issue and try to find counter arguments - if none come up then you then know which side is correct don't you?

Much better than being stubborn because then nobody learns anything for the sake of ones personal pride.


Apart from Abortion, is there anything else you have ever been wrong about?

Oh yes, I was afterall once left wing.

I've always found that the opinions I advocate which are not based on reason because I hadn't looked into them properly (and thus accepted conventional thought) crumbled fast when I looked into them - abortion being the latest one. I accepted I was wrong to myself and thus changed my stance, because looking back my previous stance had no real substance to it.

[AgnesIO]

When confronted with evidence that should change your opinion, if you wish to be technical, the rational thing to do would be to change stance on the issue would it not? if not, then you can admit you are not guided by rationality and thus take back the comment that I am the 'narrow minded one'? yes?

Yes and no. I would say if you have an opinion on something, that is your opinion. For example bullfighting is a very two sided debate, and I obviously no the ins and outs and why it could be considered inhumane, but I still occasionally watch bullfighting - despite the fact I understand fully why many people are so anti bullfighting.

I wouldn't change an opinion because everyone disagrees, I would change an opinion once I had learnt enough about the subject to have a change of opinion.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yes and no. I would say if you have an opinion on something, that is your opinion. For example bullfighting is a very two sided debate, and I obviously no the ins and outs and why it could be considered inhumane, but I still occasionally watch bullfighting - despite the fact I understand fully why many people are so anti bullfighting.

I wouldn't change an opinion because everyone disagrees, I would change an opinion once I had learnt enough about the subject to have a change of opinion.

A debate however is not about 'accepting that somebody else has an opinion' - debate is a battle between two points of view of which one side usually 'wins', sometimes some debates are won more easily than others. But when you have nothing else to say after being in a debate with somebody, that should surely open your eyes and to reply with simply 'thats my opinion' is poor.

Again, if you ran rings around me and left me lost for words - by then i'd have either accepted I was wrong or would be frantically looking for counter arguments to put forward rather than simply ignoring it for the sake of personal pride.

[Hecktix]

When confronted with evidence that should change your opinion, if you wish to be technical, the rational thing to do would be to change stance on the issue would it not? if not, then you can admit you are not guided by rationality and thus take back the comment that I am the 'narrow minded one'? yes?

When deciding something is right or wrong in terms of morality this is always going to be subjective and no evidence can be evidence in these debates, as I said the debate about abortion is what you believe life to be - yes there's evidence that a foetus is a living body and yes it's a human being but if you don't believe life (in terms of taking life, ending life) can happen until after birth then that's your view, afterall life is the most subjective thing there is, just because something breathes is it really alive? Biologically, yes it is alive, but in terms of philosophical concepts it's up to the individual to decide if they believe it is life as we know it. It's all subjective Dan. Although if you want to go down the evidence route another day as I simply don't have the time to do it now, I will chuck you tonnes of evidence of the negative effects of adoption and I'll also show you a lot of evidence of the negative effects upon a child's development if the mother attempts to bring up a child when they don't really want one. End life whilst it life means nothing but breathing in the uterus or subject a human being to a lifetime of psychological damage. I know what I would choose, you may disagree - but like I said, the wonders of opinion. Now I really must go revise, so when I don't reply, I'm not admitting defeat, I am merely spending my time doing more important things.

[AgnesIO]

What would I like? either for you to leave me speechless and from that i've then learnt something, or in the case that I leave you speechless that you at least accept that instead of resorting to 'my opinion' and hopefully you'd then go off and look into the issue and try to find counter arguments - if none come up then you then know which side is correct don't you?

You do realise some of us have an education to think about, rather than spending ages replying to your posts. The thing is, I am not the only one who gets fed up with replying to you to simply get told we are wrong (whether you write five words or 300 words it is essentially the same thing).

Now if you don't mind, I have some work to do.

[-:Undertaker:-]

When deciding something is right or wrong in terms of morality this is always going to be subjective and no evidence can be evidence in these debates, as I said the debate about abortion is what you believe life to be - yes there's evidence that a foetus is a living body and yes it's a human being but if you don't believe life (in terms of taking life, ending life) can happen until after birth then that's your view, afterall life is the most subjective thing there is, just because something breathes is it really alive? Biologically, yes it is alive, but in terms of philosophical concepts it's up to the individual to decide if they believe it is life as we know it. It's all subjective Dan. Although if you want to go down the evidence route another day as I simply don't have the time to do it now, I will chuck you tonnes of evidence of the negative effects of adoption and I'll also show you a lot of evidence of the negative effects upon a child's development if the mother attempts to bring up a child when they don't really want one. End life whilst it life means nothing but breathing in the uterus or subject a human being to a lifetime of psychological damage. I know what I would choose, you may disagree - but like I said, the wonders of opinion. Now I really must go revise, so when I don't reply, I'm not admitting defeat, I am merely spending my time doing more important things.

Well see - I would much rather you have said that in the first place which actually has some points of argument rather than simply dismiss it and say 'thats my opinion' as you did earlier. Obviously this is winding down now, but i'd like to have a debate on this in the future (infact I might start one in that forum) in this sort of manner, not in the manner that you were using before which as I said before, was narrow-minded by simply refusing to debate the points put forward and withdrawing from the debate.

If it is a matter of time then simply say so, rather than accuse me of being narrow minded and so forth.


You do realise some of us have an education to think about, rather than spending ages replying to your posts. The thing is, I am not the only one who gets fed up with replying to you to simply get told we are wrong (whether you write five words or 300 words it is essentially the same thing).

Now if you don't mind, I have some work to do.

Well you just have spent ages replying to my posts, and instead of personal digs you could have been debating a topic properly and proving me wrong - but you choose not to strangely enough. My replies to you have been the same size as the ones you've given my by the way, so don't try to pull that card.

[Mathew]

I think you are literally the first person on this forum I hate. You are naive and uninformed.
Couldn't agree more.


Since you wanted to get all emotional over the homosexuality example... lets use a diffrent one. AMERICA & The UK going to Pakistan, Iraq & Afghanistan don't you think soldiers bomb's & weapons have killed innocent people of those country??? but no i forgotten that all you lot care about is "revenge" WHAT THE **** IS THIS GAINING!?!?!? British solders are being killed too, not just the "Taliban" when you read/watch the news and you see "The Taliban are Dead" you get excited don't you? don't you think that the family's of "The Taliban" are grieving. America & The UK are bigger fools than any other country's in the world. By killing "The Taliban" all they are doing is dropping to their levels.
To be perfectly honest, no I don't think about the family's of the Taliban grieving. You're clearly moronic if you decide to join the Taliban for obvious reasons, hence you know the dangers involved.

The UK has free healthcare, free education, good public health and one of the best standards and living in the world. How you can compare that to the Taliban is just beyond me..


Why did Tony Blair even get The UK especially England involved in the war? because he thought G.W. Bush was some kind of LEGEND and look where it got the UK, under terrorism plots, re session because there spending so much on weapons from other country's etc..
Firm understanding of politics right here lol..


I've forgiven Bin Ladden for his actions if he really is dead then may he rest in peace.
You're really gonna tell your kids that you decided to forgive the world's most notorious terrorist? I'm sure they'll adore you.


now ******* think about that... is celebrating solving anything??? Al Qaeda are gonna strike back & there gonna do it so well. I just hope that when they do and your life becomes tortured JUST like theirs. you'll remember the black kid on habboxforum who made valid points you were just too stubborn & blind to see. Im leaving this thread now because its just gonna end up in a battle between myself & all of you.
o/
You're wishing torture upon your fellow forum members? You have problems lmao...
Oh and there's no need to mention your race either. We'd rather concentrate on your so-called "valid" points which are nothing short of a lunatic's.


Nothing will change in the terms of running Al Qaeda

This has been a serious blow to Al Qaeda.
contradictionz

[Eoin247]

ok since none of you are understanding what im trying to say... ill say it in your language...


YAY HE IS DEAD WOOOOOOO LETS ALL PARTY HARD! :D

now ******* think about that... is celebrating solving anything??? Al Qaeda are gonna strike back & there gonna do it so well. I just hope that when they do and your life becomes tortured JUST like theirs. you'll remember the black kid on habboxforum who made valid points you were just too stubborn & blind to see. Im leaving this thread now because its just gonna end up in a battle between myself & all of you.
o/

Celebrating does bring some solace to those whos lives have been ruined by this man. I'm not too sure how forgiving you would feel if your life was destroyed by him.

Unfortunately i don't think this is as big of a blow as some say it is. As long as there's a high level of fundamentalism in the middle east you are going to have problems.

On another note. As a punishment i think they should have kept osama alive and forced him to constantly fly around the world. :P See how he likes going through all this security that's there because of him. ;)

[Jordy]

Please think about the point I was trying to make when I posted that picture... Yes he was a bad person who did awful things. & I do feel sorry for the family's who lost loved ones... but this is where i was trying to go with the "at least have some respect"

He was a man who FOLLOWED in what HE BELIEVED. They may not of been the BEST decisions but that's what he done. Lets take Homosexual's for example... Im not trying to direct this towards anybody its just an EXAMPLE.

They believe in Same Sex relationships & they don't think there is a problem with that (not saying there is). They believe that they aren't harming/hurting anybody, really... they are. they are hurting God & The Son Jesus Christ. I am not a strong Catholic & I don't believe in every single part of the bible but I believe in certain things. God & Jesus Christ didn't WANT single sex relationships hense why the "1st two people on earth" were ADAM & EVE ; Male &Female,why? to populate the earth, we where ALL born into sin and the reason for this is because Eve decided to eat the apple off the tree etc...

Ok so that's the little example of what I was talking about... From the religious side of things, homosexual's have betrayed God & Jesus but yet still they are respected in certain area's because they didn't hide what they believed in & how they felt. The same thing with Bin Laden. He wasn't scared to follow what he believed in and the way he felt. And that is the reason why I have SOME respect for him. If you was homosexual & the world decided that homosexuality was the worst thing ever & ALL homosexual's were killed. Would you like that?Point to me the section of the Koran where it recommends blowing up innocent American civilians (and otherwise). You simply cannot respect him for "believing" when what he believes is made-up extremist ********.


Okay... so your all gonna be arrogant because im probrably the only person brave enough to take Osama's side... That dude that was like "get out of my county" i honestly lol'ed so hard at that. who the **** are you??? its not YOUR country its Queen Elizabeth the 2nd's country.

ANYWAY!

Since you wanted to get all emotional over the homosexuality example... lets use a diffrent one. AMERICA & The UK going to Pakistan, Iraq & Afghanistan don't you think soldiers bomb's & weapons have killed innocent people of those country??? but no i forgotten that all you lot care about is "revenge" WHAT THE **** IS THIS GAINING!?!?!? British solders are being killed too, not just the "Taliban" when you read/watch the news and you see "The Taliban are Dead" you get excited don't you? don't you think that the family's of "The Taliban" are grieving. America & The UK are bigger fools than any other country's in the world. By killing "The Taliban" all they are doing is dropping to their levels.

Why did Tony Blair even get The UK especially England involved in the war? because he thought G.W. Bush was some kind of LEGEND and look where it got the UK, under terrorism plots, re session because there spending so much on weapons from other country's etc..

You don't have to agree with anything I have said because you are your own person do what you want when you want but yeah... I've forgiven Bin Ladden for his actions if he really is dead then may he rest in peace.He hasn't asked for forgiveness, apologised, shown any remorse or expressed regret, why would you even contemplated forgiving him, he never even want to be forgiven!

Yes clearly America & the UK are the most "foolish" countries in the world, that's why they're stable democracies with some of the greatest freedoms in the world and also among the wealthiest states. It's certainly not someone like Gaddafi who machine guns his own citizens or Mugabe who is incapable of feeding his citizens.

Just clicked the "Facebook" link in your signature and your profile picture was "RIP Osama", *REMOVED*


I am Lamar & I have every right to question the prime minister's actions because there is such thing as freedom of speech.

the reason why I am able to forgive him is because its THE PAST there is no way what he has done can be changed, I'm not scum. I'm not a child. I believe in FORGIVE & FORGET the armed forces going out to kill isn't solving a damn thing all its doing is making **** worst.So if I murdered your mum, you'd forgive me and wouldn't want to hurt me seeing as it wouldn't make anything better and it'd already happened..?

Edited by Infectious (Forum Moderator): Please do not be rude to other users!
Terribly sorry for referring to a Bin laden sympathiser as a moron

[Narnat,]

I think it is a good thing but it could also be a bad thing. Who is going to be the next osama?

[AgnesIO]

I think it is a good thing but it could also be a bad thing. Who is going to be the next osama?

For Al Qaeda? I am going to bet on: Them having coffee coloured skin, a beard, some kind of turban and most likely wearing tradition dress (er a long coat/dress) :P

Only kidding (Although probably a good guess). However, I don't think it matters. The fact is that their key figure head is gone, which to me is all that matters for now.

[Stephen]

White House spokesman describes photo of #Osama Bin Laden's corpse as 'gruesome' and could be 'inflammatory' http://bbc.in/k53ndr #OBL #fb


White House: photos of #Osama Bin Laden's corpse being reviewed; no 'timeline' as yet on a decision to publish http://bbc.in/k53ndr #OBL

No matter how gruesome the pics are, no doubt they'll release them anyway

[GommeInc]

No matter how gruesome the pics are, no doubt they'll release them anyway
They should as it will give some people closure and proof about the events. Censorship will be difficult to do though, seeing as the the shot was to the face and if they are gruesome they cannot censor them too much otherwise it ruins the point :P

[Stephen]

Aslong as they didnt use a shotgun then I'm sure it's not that gruesome!

[GommeInc]

Aslong as they didnt use a shotgun then I'm sure it's not that gruesome!
Well, true :P I'm just thinking about if it was a clean bullet mark to the head or whether or not it spread - inbetween the eyes could mean anything, and one area literally destroys the whole face :P I won't go into too much detail though :P

[Eoin247]

Well the main reason for not releasing the photos is due to Obama wanting to distance himself from the way George Bush did things. I'm sure some of you remember when Saddam Hussein was caught, there were videos and pictures everywhere.

I think he wants to show the muslims that America isn't the same America they dislike so much anymore.

[tylermunjkt]

http://habbox.com/#/News/article/345 About the death of Bin Laden!

[e5]

Woweeeeee! What happens next?

[tylermunjkt]

Colonel Gadaffy Dies!

[AgnesIO]

Well, true :P I'm just thinking about if it was a clean bullet mark to the head or whether or not it spread - inbetween the eyes could mean anything, and one area literally destroys the whole face :P I won't go into too much detail though :P

It is scary that you know this :L

Typical Essex

[Accipiter]

Aslong as they didnt use a shotgun then I'm sure it's not that gruesome!

Pretty sure a 50. cal to the face would be gruesome too, or a round of fire from an line of assault rifles :P

But in fairness, the pictures will be leaked, you'll find them on the internet in time no matter how gruesome they are.

[tylermunjkt]

Most images around at the moment are fake... Some even give viruses.

[AgnesIO]

Most images around at the moment are fake... Some even give viruses.

Not without downloading it they don't.

Wait for smaller news sites to announce the leak, and you will know they are around.

[Stephen]

Colonel Gadaffy Dies!

That article is awful lol

[tylermunjkt]

fanx m8 =/

Edited by Catz (Forum Super Moderator):
Please do not make posts that do not postively contribute to the thread

[Chippiewill]

Not without downloading it they don't.
*cough* pdf vulnerabilities *cough*

[AgnesIO]

*cough* pdf vulnerabilities *cough*

When a virus manages to get past my security etc I will reply - up until now though, I have not been affected despite viewing some of these fake images (no, not the ones on facebook - I am not a mug x)

----

It always amuses me on news websites that literally the entire homepage is about the one thing that has happened when important times in new history happen (royal wedding, tsunami japan, bin laden etc). Imagine if both Mr Bin Laden and Mr Gadaffi were killed on the same day :O

[Chippiewill]

It always amuses me on news websites that literally the entire homepage is about the one thing that has happened when important times in new history happen (royal wedding, tsunami japan, bin laden etc). Imagine if both Mr Bin Laden and Mr Gadaffi were killed on the same day :O

"Most of the mother******s are now dead... the end.", something along those lines. Either that or they'd go crazy and find some way to mash them together.

[AgnesIO]

"Most of the mother******s are now dead... the end.", something along those lines. Either that or they'd go crazy and find some way to mash them together.

Possibly the best post in this thread. Check spam in five mins...

----

It would be insane though, if the three most hated terrorists got killed on the same day... it would probably be the same day world war 3 breaks out though.

----

Some of the stories on BBC seem unimportant to me. 'Bin Laden was unarmed when shot' - can we be honest, who really cares?

[Chippiewill]

Some of the stories on BBC seem unimportant to me. 'Bin Laden was unarmed when shot'

Says the zero eye witnesses except for those people who are now ordered not to release details.

[Inseriousity.]

When a virus manages to get past my security etc I will reply - up until now though, I have not been affected despite viewing some of these fake images (no, not the ones on facebook - I am not a mug x)

----

It always amuses me on news websites that literally the entire homepage is about the one thing that has happened when important times in new history happen (royal wedding, tsunami japan, bin laden etc). Imagine if both Mr Bin Laden and Mr Gadaffi were killed on the same day :O

lol always hate it when tabloids spend a quarter of their pages on one story!

[Hecktix]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13274176

Whitehouse announces he was unarmed, why are they contradicting themselves here, it's most peculiar - there's something they don't want to release and they don't know how to go about it. I don't know what they think they are doing contradicting themselves though.

[GommeInc]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13274176

Whitehouse announces he was unarmed, why are they contradicting themselves here, it's most peculiar - there's something they don't want to release and they don't know how to go about it. I don't know what they think they are doing contradicting themselves though.
How peculiar indeed :/ It makes you wonder if another country was behind the capture/killing of him, would they report on it differently?

EDIT: The article is incredibly odd. One moment his wife was used as a human sheild, the next she "rushed" the troops and she was also caught in the cross fire :S She can't be all 3! Does this mean the news article about him being a coward is complete botox, to put it kindly? :P

[Richie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13274176

Whitehouse announces he was unarmed, why are they contradicting themselves here, it's most peculiar - there's something they don't want to release and they don't know how to go about it. I don't know what they think they are doing contradicting themselves though.

They shot the unarmed terrorist dead in front of his family, those who shot him are definitely heroes. Jesus, did they really need to sink to his level?

[xxMATTGxx]

They shot the unarmed terrorist dead in front of his family, those who shot him are definitely heroes. Jesus, did they really need to sink to his level?


It was still right to kill him there and then, he didn't want to be captured for sure. He deserved to be killed by any armed forces or through any other means. Regardless him being armed or not, he resisted efforts to capture him so if that is the case than there is only one way to go.


Osama Bin Laden was unarmed when he was shot by US forces in Pakistan, but he resisted efforts to capture him alive, US officials say

[Recursion]

He also declared war on the west, his killing was perfectly justified.

[Red]

They shot the unarmed terrorist dead in front of his family, those who shot him are definitely heroes. Jesus, did they really need to sink to his level?

I am against capital punishment but they wen't sinking to his level. He needed to be killed, he was a threat to humanity and it would of been putting people at high risk to take him back and put him on trial. Not to mention the cost if he was put in prison for life.

[GommeInc]

It was still right to kill him there and then, he didn't want to be captured for sure. He deserved to be killed by any armed forces or through any other means. Regardless him being armed or not, he resisted efforts to capture him so if that is the case than there is only one way to go.
Depends what they mean by "resisted capture". Usually that only works when the individual is armed and is ready to shoot to stop others capturing him, but as he was unarmed I can't see him being that much of a problem. I just picture a bearded man running around in circles shouting "I don't wanna go, I don't wanna go" and a US troop muttering "Oh shut up" *bang*

[Lost_Addict]

I'm not for killing however someone who takes thousands of lifes deserves their life to be ceased.

[HotelUser]

Depends what they mean by "resisted capture". Usually that only works when the individual is armed and is ready to shoot to stop others capturing him, but as he was unarmed I can't see him being that much of a problem. I just picture a bearded man running around in circles shouting "I don't wanna go, I don't wanna go" and a US troop muttering "Oh shut up" *bang*

He didn't deserve a death more graceful than that.

[Accipiter]

I was listening too one of the BBC Radio stations last night and OMG WAS IT IRRITATING.

They were phoning in about all this Osama business and they were all like "I don't believe he's dead, theres no official proof, why would they put his body at sea? its like a stone in a coffin bladdy blah"

I was cringing, half the country is asking to see pictures of the **** dead, but they'd probably have nightmares for weeks if they did see him... It's clear he's dead seeing as Al Qaeda haven't came forward.

The idiot started ranting on about "Everyone has a twin, they could of shot him thinking it was bin laden, I think bin laden will have had skin grafts blah blah, you can tell who it is by the hands" It's not like his hand has Bin Laden tattoo'd on it, and I don't expect the US to have had his finger print.

Then she started ranting on about how she was running from her bf lmfao? Swear people who phone up are ******ed loners.

[Hecktix]

Depends what they mean by "resisted capture". Usually that only works when the individual is armed and is ready to shoot to stop others capturing him, but as he was unarmed I can't see him being that much of a problem. I just picture a bearded man running around in circles shouting "I don't wanna go, I don't wanna go" and a US troop muttering "Oh shut up" *bang*

The article does claim he was reaching for a weapon but I don't know what to believe. I think it's safe to believe that other people were firing in the house though (report also says that), although they say he wasnt as guarded as they expected I'd imagine he was still pretty guarded, guards with firearms, whether bin laden was shooting or not people were shooting for him. Original stories say they killed the wife now she's been shot in the leg, it's crazy stuff.

Then there's the situation with the ISA... it's all mucked up. It's bizarre that there's been no Al Qaeda statement on the matter, I thought someone would have released a video or something, Osama didnt run the network himsef, where are his men?

I personally think the ISA knew where Osama was and probably for quite a while, that could be what this is about.

---------- Post added 04-05-2011 at 01:52 PM ----------


Depends what they mean by "resisted capture". Usually that only works when the individual is armed and is ready to shoot to stop others capturing him, but as he was unarmed I can't see him being that much of a problem. I just picture a bearded man running around in circles shouting "I don't wanna go, I don't wanna go" and a US troop muttering "Oh shut up" *bang*

He was in his bedroom with his wife and some children (that weren't his) - god knows what he was doing mind. I picture it as him being in bed, sitting up when they barge in and his last words being "What? I thought you'd never find me, now, I'll count to 10 and you go hide"!

Or more seriously, he had been successful for 10 years I imagine he had let his guard down quite a bit (this backs up ma theory about the ISA knowing where he is) and seemed to be quite comfortable in his expensive villa in Pakistan, I doubt he expected it and thats how they got him.

[GommeInc]

The article does claim he was reaching for a weapon but I don't know what to believe. I think it's safe to believe that other people were firing in the house though (report also says that), although they say he wasnt as guarded as they expected I'd imagine he was still pretty guarded, guards with firearms, whether bin laden was shooting or not people were shooting for him. Original stories say they killed the wife now she's been shot in the leg, it's crazy stuff.

Then there's the situation with the ISA... it's all mucked up. It's bizarre that there's been no Al Qaeda statement on the matter, I thought someone would have released a video or something, Osama didnt run the network himsef, where are his men?

I personally think the ISA knew where Osama was and probably for quite a while, that could be what this is about.

He was in his bedroom with his wife and some children (that weren't his) - god knows what he was doing mind. I picture it as him being in bed, sitting up when they barge in and his last words being "What? I thought you'd never find me, now, I'll count to 10 and you go hide"!

Or more seriously, he had been successful for 10 years I imagine he had let his guard down quite a bit (this backs up ma theory about the ISA knowing where he is) and seemed to be quite comfortable in his expensive villa in Pakistan, I doubt he expected it and thats how they got him.
It is a bit of a muddle, it makes you wonder where on earth this information is coming from :P I remember reading that the woman in the room was used as a human shield. Then it's reported she was lunged herself at the US troops and then the next she was just shot in the leg. It does make you wonder what happened, and from what I understood Obama must know what happened if he watched it, assuming he watched the events unfold or he only saw the aftermath when he was called into that meeting - that detail is often scewered too :P

I'm waiting for a response from Al Qaeda, the way the story is going it's like Bin Laden wasn't as big a target as we once thought he was, judging by the lack of protection and how easy he was to track down. So far the only reason for killing him was for what he done, what he may of done in the future however may of rested on other people.

It would of been interesting if he was seeing to his children who were having nightmares of US men (and maybe women) storming in and killing their family. Oh how real that nightmare was :P

[Hecktix]

I'm waiting for a response from Al Qaeda, the way the story is going it's like Bin Laden wasn't as big a target as we once thought he was, judging by the lack of protection and how easy he was to track down. So far the only reason for killing him was for what he done, what he may of done in the future however may of rested on other people.

It would of been interesting if he was seeing to his children who were having nightmares of US men (and maybe women) storming in and killing their family. Oh how real that nightmare was :P

I think it's only natural that he perhaps lowered his guard, after 10 years of being successful you aren't gonna expect the American troops storming your bedroom, I think he had probably been in this pakistani villa for quite some time and it's a perfect hiding place, not heavily guarded (if you see something's heavily guarded you wonder what's in it). I personally think until this week for whatever reason he believed external forces, whether it be the ISA or whoever keeping his location safe. I don't trust the ISA and it seems the Americans dont either, the ISA are also playing with the American game saying they were involved in it etc

[rld]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhCdlygmSJ4
HE WAS RIGHT

[xxMATTGxx]

Makes me wonder how easy it is to enter Pakistan airspace without being noticed what so ever. If it's correct that Pakistan had no idea this was happening until after it was completed.

[Accipiter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhCdlygmSJ4
HE WAS RIGHT

LMFAO!

Hope they didn't predict the end of the world because it's probably going to be as famous as nostradamus now (however its spelt)

[RyRy]

A few people on my Twitter feed are calling it "state sponsored assassination", and that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Also have people saying that shooting an old man and celebrating it is despicable, but I ask them this, if your relative was killed by this man, and you seen him 10 years later walking down a street when you have a gun in your hand, would you shoot him?

Going back to the claims of assassination though, the conspiracy theories are coming out that he was shot in the head because the US knew he had secrets that they didn't want revealing if he was to go on trial. Me personally, I'm in two minds about whether it's justice or not... People congratulate killing an old man whose responsible for killing thousands, yet condemn killing someone via death penalty for ruining a childs life because they were groomed as a child. You could say that the two are completely different to eachother, but when is one life less important than another one?

Really hard to judge it.

[Richie]

A few people on my Twitter feed are calling it "state sponsored assassination", and that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Also have people saying that shooting an old man and celebrating it is despicable, but I ask them this, if your relative was killed by this man, and you seen him 10 years later walking down a street when you have a gun in your hand, would you shoot him?

Going back to the claims of assassination though, the conspiracy theories are coming out that he was shot in the head because the US knew he had secrets that they didn't want revealing if he was to go on trial. Me personally, I'm in two minds about whether it's justice or not... People congratulate killing an old man whose responsible for killing thousands, yet condemn killing someone via death penalty for ruining a childs life because they were groomed as a child. You could say that the two are completely different to eachother, but when is one life less important than another one?

Really hard to judge it.

I'm not just basing my opinion this way because I want my point to be correct but I wouldn't. I couldn't kill another man no matter what crime he committed. Sure, I'd hold a gun at him and tell him to stay down but even if he resisted I don't think I'd have the heart to take another mans life. That sounds insane, considering he killed thousands of people but that's just me.

[Inseriousity.]

I think it's only natural that he perhaps lowered his guard, after 10 years of being successful you aren't gonna expect the American troops storming your bedroom, I think he had probably been in this pakistani villa for quite some time and it's a perfect hiding place, not heavily guarded (if you see something's heavily guarded you wonder what's in it). I personally think until this week for whatever reason he believed external forces, whether it be the ISA or whoever keeping his location safe. I don't trust the ISA and it seems the Americans dont either, the ISA are also playing with the American game saying they were involved in it etc

I don't think he ever lowered his guard. As far as I can make out, he banned all phone and internet communications and one of his trusted couriers broke that rule so it wasn't him letting his guard down, it was his henchmen making a mistake! He's evaded capture for 10 years and got out of very tricky situations so even if he was unarmed, I wouldn't be surprised if there were lots of escape routes from that house.

I think it's very easy for us to sit at a computer desk and say 'they shouldn't have shot him' but in what is a life or death situation with only seconds to make a decision, I imagine most of us would make the same decision.

[RyRy]

I'm not just basing my opinion this way because I want my point to be correct but I wouldn't. I couldn't kill another man no matter what crime he committed. Sure, I'd hold a gun at him and tell him to stay down but even if he resisted I don't think I'd have the heart to take another mans life. That sounds insane, considering he killed thousands of people but that's just me.

Fair enough, I wouldnt either but if you lost a loved one, my thoughts are that it'll drive you to do some crazy stuff.

[Jordy]

As David Starkey pointed out yesterday it's worrying how we become our enemy. The scenes in New York of people celebrating Bin laden's death can only be compared to scenes seen in the Middle East, the west never used to celebrate deaths like that. The use of torture to gain this information, holding people without trial and not giving Bin Laden a trial are further examples of how we're turning into our enemy in some respects which is a very bad thing indeed. How on earth are we supposed to have the moral high-ground anymore?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good thing he's been killed without doubt and he may well of deserved it but American attitudes and abuses of human rights are worrying.

[Phil]

Just thought I'd share this with you guys:

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3 DKhCdlygmSJ4%26feature%3Daso&h=6c3da

HE IS ALWAYS CORRECT AND DESERVES THE RANSOM!

EDIT:

Just saw this was already posted so, Bin Ladens dead then?

[xxMATTGxx]

Just thought I'd share this with you guys:

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3 DKhCdlygmSJ4%26feature%3Daso&h=6c3da

HE IS ALWAYS CORRECT AND DESERVES THE RANSOM!

EDIT:

Just saw this was already posted so, Bin Ladens dead then?

Well if you believe that the US have killed him, then yes.

[dbgtz]

does anyone not find it coincidental that the royal wedding has just happened then 2/3 days later bin ladens dead taking britain straight out of the spotlight? lol.

[AgnesIO]

does anyone not find it coincidental that the royal wedding has just happened then 2/3 days later bin ladens dead taking britain straight out of the spotlight? lol.

Not sure why that matters. Just the way the world turns - there is big news every week (like really big news) in general, so just chance I guess :P

[Chippiewill]

Conspiracy theory: Bin Laden paid the Americans to fake his death for him.

[Misawa]

Not releasing the photo of his corpse. Hmm, suspicious.

[Hecktix]

Not releasing the photo of his corpse. Hmm, suspicious.

to be fair, it isn't really suspicious, it's a man who got shot in the head, it's not surprising they won't release the images, it was a stupid idea in the first place, it's against the law in a lot of countries to post images of such things online. America wouldn't claim he was dead unless he really was dead, because it'd be so much trouble if he resurfaced. The only suspicious thing about it is the issues surrounding how they found him and what actually happened when they did, if you ask me.

[xxMATTGxx]

Very true. I've just seen some photos of some of the other bodies and let's just say, they aren't the most pretty things you will ever see and they are quite grim indeed. With a photo or without a photo, speculation will always be around in regards of his death for people. If a photo did get released, people could be like "Omg it's a fake" and all of that crap. I do believe what the US are saying is correct in regards of him being dead and so on.


to be fair, it isn't really suspicious, it's a man who got shot in the head, it's not surprising they won't release the images, it was a stupid idea in the first place, it's against the law in a lot of countries to post images of such things online. America wouldn't claim he was dead unless he really was dead, because it'd be so much trouble if he resurfaced. The only suspicious thing about it is the issues surrounding how they found him and what actually happened when they did, if you ask me.

[Misawa]

They released graphic photos of three Pakistanis shot dead in the compound, so why not bin Laden? Because his brain was exposed? Everyone's seen JFK's morgue photos, everyone's seen the video of his head being blown apart, everyone's seen Saddam Hussein's hanging, everyone's seen Hussein's corpse with the bloody bone sticking out of his neck, everyone's seen the official photos released of Hussein's two dead sons. If people want to look at it, then they should be able to. I for one want to see bin Laden's corpse. If people don't, they don't have to look at it.

[Hecktix]

They released graphic photos of three Pakistanis shot dead in the compound, so why not bin Laden? Because his brain was exposed? Everyone's seen JFK's morgue photos, everyone's seen the video of his head being blown apart, everyone's seen Saddam Hussein's hanging, everyone's seen Hussein's corpse with the bloody bone sticking out of his neck, everyone's seen the official photos released of Hussein's two dead sons.

A lot of the photos you talk of were leaked, it would not be ethical to release an image of someone who has been shot in the head at close range, it is probably quite messy and would be an idiotic thing for an official entity to do.

[xxMATTGxx]

They released graphic photos of three Pakistanis shot dead in the compound, so why not bin Laden? Because his brain was exposed? Everyone's seen JFK's morgue photos, everyone's seen the video of his head being blown apart, everyone's seen Saddam Hussein's hanging, everyone's seen Hussein's corpse with the bloody bone sticking out of his neck, everyone's seen the official photos released of Hussein's two dead sons.

If it's the photos I think you are talking about, the site I read said they were taken by a Pakistani security official.


Pictures allegedly showing the results of US special forces' assault on Osama bin Laden's hideout in Abbottabad. Reuters, who released all but the first picture shown here, have said: 'The photos [were] taken by a Pakistani security official who entered the compound after the early morning raid on Monday. The official, who wished to remain anonymous, sold the pictures. Reuters is confident in their authenticity'.

[Misawa]

So it's OK for the government to release video of the burnt corpses of two US troops being dragged through the streets by insurgents and have it shown on pre-watershed news, but we can't see public enemy #1 with a hole in his head.

[xxMATTGxx]

So it's OK for the government to release video of the burnt corpses of two US troops being dragged through the streets by insurgents and have it shown on pre-watershed news, but we can't see public enemy #1 with a hole in his head.

You don't show the image when you don't want it look like some sort of trophy. There was an actual concern that the photos might inflame anti-US sentiment.

[Richie]

I find it disturbing that people would actually want to see such images, I don't have any doubt that it wasn't bin laden. I don't think people want proof, they just want to see a sick image of a dead terrorist.

[Misawa]

There's always some excuse.

Extremists are extremists. They're devising whatever plans they can 24/7. Seeing an image of bin Laden's body isn't going to make them work any faster. Until they do release a picture - I hope they eventually submit to overwhelming backlash - then I will always think that it stinks. It wouldn't be the first time the US have said people are dead who aren't.

Richie, the people who want to generally see such photos can just do a Google search. I used to take pictures of scenes of death - mostly car accidents - for a living and I certainly do not go outof my way to search for such images, but seeing bin Laden's body not only strengthens proof that he is in fact dead, but it's quite simply a morbid curiosity. I wanted to see Hussein's hanging and I did.

[xxMATTGxx]

There's also some excuse.

Extremists are extremists. They're devising whatever plans they can 24/7. Seeing an image of bin Laden's body isn't going to make them work any faster. Until they do release a picture - I hope they eventually submit to overwhelming backlash - then I will always think that it stinks. It wouldn't be the first time the US have said people are dead who aren't.

It might not be the first time but I haven't heard anything from al-Qaeda saying he isn't dead and is still pretty much alive. But if you don't want to believe that he is dead, then don't.

If they did release the photo, it would not stop speculation at all. Depending on how much damage to the face he has due to the shots, could change the way he actually looks and people will be like "Lol that's not him" or some crap. But either way, the decision has been made.

[Misawa]

In actuality, if there are photos, someone in the government is bound to sell them. The offer would be far too high to refuse.

[xxMATTGxx]

In actuality, if there are photos, someone in the government is bound to sell them. The offer would be far too high to refuse.

There most likely will be leaks and if there is, then great for anyone who wants to see the grim image.

[Misawa]

There will be few who won't look at it. Like I said, morbid curiosity. The same reason why everyone looks at car accidents when they drive past in the hope of catching a glimpse of gore. It's a natural part of the psyche.