Portugal becomes third Eurozone country to require bailout

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1383438/Portugal-Eurozone-country-bailout-leader-boasts-70bn-deal-better-terms-Ireland-Greece.html

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/244768/Fury-as-UK-faces-4billion-pay-out-to-rescue-Portugal

Families face £160 bill to bail out Portugal as it becomes third country forced to go to EU for help


British taxpayers could be forced to pay more than £4billion to bail out debt-ridden Portugal. Every household in the UK faces a bill of around £160 after it became the third eurozone country to need a bailout. Critics branded the situation ‘grotesque and unfair’ at a time of public spending cuts. The rescue of Portugal follows last year’s bailouts of Greece and Ireland and looks set to include about £4billion from Britain.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/04/article-1383438-0BE4B56D00000578-365_468x320.jpg
Jackpot: Portugese Prime Minister announces bailout



Taxpayers face the expense because of a deal struck by then Chancellor Alistair Darling shortly after Labour lost last year’s general election. His successor George Osborne insists he objected to the deal, which committed Britain to a £50billion EU bailout scheme. After a month of talks with the EU and IMF, Portugal has agreed to a £70billion rescue package. Portuguese prime minister Jose Socrates said there would be no civil service cuts, no changes to job and welfare entitlements and no cut in the minimum wage. The leader, who resigned in March but remains in office until elections early next month, did not even disclose the size of the bailout during his appearance. He said: 'The government has obtained a good deal. This is a deal that defends Portugal.'

Wow, despite all the mocking back in 2009/10 on this forum - turns out Nigel Farage was spot on as he usually is just as with Belgium. I just wonder if Labour, the Liberal Democrats or the Tories could have predicted the demise of the disasterous Euro just as good - oh no wait! they were campaigning for us to surrnder our monetary independence and join the Euro along with top Tories who had a leader who refused to rule out joining the single currency!

Mr Osborne is also being fundementally dishonest about this as Mr Darling recent pointed out that he consulted Osborne during the General Election and the pair of them agreed to this, bear in mind they are supposed to be 'against' one another. Do remember, no government can bind its successor.

Ah well, don't let the truth get in the way of the tribal voting today, enjoy the bill.

Thoughts? should Britain contribute to the bailout? wish you had a conservative government in office?

[JerseySafety]

No-one has replied but; I don't think britain should have to bail out Portugal.

Like seriously; I mean if it was to be USA bailing out Canada [example] then yes, maybe, but why Portugal?

Stuff paying that amount of money to help another country, when most people these days are struggling.

[AgnesIO]

No-one has replied but; I don't think britain should have to bail out Portugal.

Like seriously; I mean if it was to be USA bailing out Canada [example] then yes, maybe, but why Portugal?

Stuff paying that amount of money to help another country, when most people these days are struggling.

Because we are both in Europe.

[Accipiter]

Surely other countries are paying a bailout towards Portugal not just the UK?

[Conservative,]

Because we are both in Europe.
It has no significance to us. We are not in the euro. Why should we help? If Portugal goes down it won't effect us (economically). We're just wasting our money.

Surely other countries are paying a bailout towards Portugal not just the UK?
Yes they are, but we shouldn't be giving any money at all.

[GommeInc]

It has no significance to us. We are not in the euro. Why should we help? If Portugal goes down it won't effect us (economically). We're just wasting our money.
It will, but only because the EU will make us suffer alongside Portugal :P

I think countries who have that useless currency should be bailing Portugal out. It's not Britain's fault the useless Euro is struggling again, and the the EU keeps asking countries for money when they're strapped for cash as it is.

[Oleh]

I don't see why the government don't grow some balls and say no for once.

[ifuseekamy]

No-one has replied but; I don't think britain should have to bail out Portugal.

Like seriously; I mean if it was to be USA bailing out Canada [example] then yes, maybe, but why Portugal?

Stuff paying that amount of money to help another country, when most people these days are struggling.
I believe Scotland has plans to adopt the euro. We should probably start saving up bailout now.

[Chippiewill]

Eurgh, there seems to be a pattern going on here. And it seems that as more countries are bailed more and more countries will need bailing until there's only a few paying countries left in the EU.

[Fez]

Eurgh, there seems to be a pattern going on here. And it seems that as more countries are bailed more and more countries will need bailing until there's only a few paying countries left in the EU.

Won't be long until we're not one of them.

[Conservative,]

It will, but only because the EU will make us suffer alongside Portugal :P

I think countries who have that useless currency should be bailing Portugal out. It's not Britain's fault the useless Euro is struggling again, and the the EU keeps asking countries for money when they're strapped for cash as it is.

That's my point. Countries who it concerns should pay. We are not part of the Euro. We shouldn't care.

[cocaine]

That's my point. Countries who it concerns should pay. We are not part of the Euro. We shouldn't care.

bearing in mind that the EU is a major trading partner with the UK, we should very much care.

[-:Undertaker:-]

bearing in mind that the EU is a major trading partner with the UK, we should very much care.

The United States and China are also big trading partners with the European Union, then there's Switzerland, Russia, Norway, Turkey and so forth - they are not required to bailout Eurozone countries and even if the EU demanded they did so, they wouldn't nor shouldnt - should we have a foreign policy and trade policy based upon blackmail? the question we must ask ourselves is this; would the European Union come to the aid of the Pound Sterling?

In terms of trade, around 80% of our trade is internal anyway, the Commonwealth is also a big and growing market (containing India) of which we miss out on a lot because we are bound by EU laws and rules - add to the fact that the figures for our 'trade' with the EU are disorted by what is known as the 'Rotterdam effect' - its counted as trade with the EU, but its actually trade with the rest of the world which passes via Rotterdam.

There's no obligation to be in the EU to be able to trade with the EU.

[redtom]

I don't see why we're still in the EU, Since we've joined its done nothing but drag us down, we pay out more than we get every year which isn't far. We should keep the money we're effectively giving away and put to better use in our own country.

[AgnesIO]

The United States and China are also big trading partners with the European Union, then there's Switzerland, Russia, Norway, Turkey and so forth - they are not required to bailout Eurozone countries and even if the EU demanded they did so, they wouldn't nor shouldnt - should we have a foreign policy and trade policy based upon blackmail? the question we must ask ourselves is this; would the European Union come to the aid of the Pound Sterling?

In terms of trade, around 80% of our trade is internal anyway, the Commonwealth is also a big and growing market (containing India) of which we miss out on a lot because we are bound by EU laws and rules - add to the fact that the figures for our 'trade' with the EU are disorted by what is known as the 'Rotterdam effect' - its counted as trade with the EU, but its actually trade with the rest of the world which passes via Rotterdam.

There's no obligation to be in the EU to be able to trade with the EU.

Obviously they wouldn't pay towards the GBP as that isn't their currency - there is no chance it could effect them if our pound screws up, but the euro falling would/could effect other countries.

[cocaine]

In terms of trade, around 80% of our trade is internal anyway

would you like to provide the source for that information? i highly doubt that figure is accurate - i was referring to overseas trading in any case. the EU along with the US are one of two major trading partners and don't forget that portguals trouble could affect other countries with the common currency - france, spains and in particular germanys growth rate may be negatively affected from a change in the strength of the euro vs other currencies.

[RyRy]

but matt the thing is we've always been trading partners with peeps in the EU, i cant remember what the treaty was called but we all signed it and it was a trading agreement between now-EU countries. funnily enough it was said at the time that the treaty wouldn't be used politically, boom here we are now. so reeeeeeeeally we're paying money to be part of a club we were part before it cost naything. dandertaker could probs give a few more facts im just going on vague knowledge.

its this kinda stuff that means we seriously need a referendum on EU, it's a joke we havent had one already.

[AgnesIO]

but matt the thing is we've always been trading partners with peeps in the EU, i cant remember what the treaty was called but we all signed it and it was a trading agreement between now-EU countries. funnily enough it was said at the time that the treaty wouldn't be used politically, boom here we are now. so reeeeeeeeally we're paying money to be part of a club we were part before it cost naything. dandertaker could probs give a few more facts im just going on vague knowledge.

its this kinda stuff that means we seriously need a referendum on EU, it's a joke we havent had one already.

The thing with having referendums is that people will start wanting one for everything - they must cost huge amounts of money in themselves to run etc.

"80% of our trade is internal" - does this include things like warehouses buying products in, who then sells in to those trading places, where local shops then buy the products (which would boost the amount of internal trades..)

[RyRy]

The thing with having referendums is that people will start wanting one for everything - they must cost huge amounts of money in themselves to run etc.

"80% of our trade is internal" - does this include things like warehouses buying products in, who then sells in to those trading places, where local shops then buy the products (which would boost the amount of internal trades..)

when we're giving away 4billion to another country because we're pretty much required to by the EU, spending 82m (which was around the price of AV referendum) is bloody pennies.

[AgnesIO]

when we're giving away 4billion to another country because we're pretty much required to by the EU, spending 82m (which was around the price of AV referendum) is bloody pennies.

It was a sly point, since users on this forum want a referendum for absolutely every single political issue lol

To be honest, I don't think we should be in the EU - we don't even have their currency :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

Obviously they wouldn't pay towards the GBP as that isn't their currency - there is no chance it could effect them if our pound screws up, but the euro falling would/could effect other countries.

The United Kingdom is one of the biggest trading partners for the European Union along with the UK footing much of the bills in the EU - you are quite right they wouldn't support us because thats exactly their mindset, if the Pound Sterling failed (which they would very much rather like) then we would be coxed into joining their Euro.

The Pound Sterling is one of the biggest reserve currencies of the world, it would affect other countries.


would you like to provide the source for that information? i highly doubt that figure is accurate - i was referring to overseas trading in any case. the EU along with the US are one of two major trading partners and don't forget that portguals trouble could affect other countries with the common currency - france, spains and in particular germanys growth rate may be negatively affected from a change in the strength of the euro vs other currencies.

I can't find the source at the moment so you'll have to discount it, however yes most of our trade will be internal if you think about it with trading between shops and so forth. Now as for the Euro failing, it can be avoided - if the Euro is broken up. The bailouts will not work because borrowing more does not get you out of debt - it only prolongs the problem and makes the crash worse.

The best help we can give the Eurozone is the advice of leaving the single currency, if the politicians choose to ignore this advice then on their head be it i'm afraid. It is not the job of the United Kingdom to bail out a failed project which will fail either way, except by bailing out the Eurozone we will take much more of a hit than we would of otherwise.


but matt the thing is we've always been trading partners with peeps in the EU, i cant remember what the treaty was called but we all signed it and it was a trading agreement between now-EU countries. funnily enough it was said at the time that the treaty wouldn't be used politically, boom here we are now. so reeeeeeeeally we're paying money to be part of a club we were part before it cost naything. dandertaker could probs give a few more facts im just going on vague knowledge.

its this kinda stuff that means we seriously need a referendum on EU, it's a joke we havent had one already

The simple fact to give regarding trade is that we'd still trade with the EU whether or not we were a part of it, the only difference being that the elected British government itself would be able to secure deals with both the EU and the world rather than unelected foreigners who, being foreign, simply do not have the interests of Great Britain at heart.


The thing with having referendums is that people will start wanting one for everything - they must cost huge amounts of money in themselves to run etc.

"80% of our trade is internal" - does this include things like warehouses buying products in, who then sells in to those trading places, where local shops then buy the products (which would boost the amount of internal trades..)

The referendum point; the EU is the most important issue in politics, it merits a referendum far more than the referendums on devolved regions, devolved parliaments and voting systems do. I think the stance Tony Benn takes is correct, that at every election the MPs borrow the power from the people and at the end of 5 years return those powers they were given - it is wrong that MPs and the government give away these powers when in office without permission from the people, therefore a referendum to decide whether these powers leave or stay is required.

Whether we are in the EU or not would not affect whether we could trade with the EU. Outside of the EU we would be able to trade freely with other nations without having to abide by EU rules and regulations, which damage free trade.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100020456/ten-reasons-to-leave-the-eu/


1. Since we joined the EEC in 1973, we have been in surplus with every continent in the world except Europe. Over those 27 years, we have run a trade deficit with the other member states that averages out at £30 million per day.

2. In 2010 our gross contribution to the EU budget will be £14 billion. To put this figure in context, all the reductions announced by George Osborne at the Conservative Party Conference would, collectively, save £7 billion a year across the whole of government spending.

3. On the European Commission’s own figures, the annual costs of EU regulation outweigh the advantages of the single market by €600 to €180 billion.

4. The Common Agricultural Policy costs every family £1200 a year in higher food bills.

5. Outside the Common Fisheries Policy, Britain could reassert control over its waters out to 200 miles or the median line, which would take in around 65 per cent of North Sea stocks.

6. Successive British governments have refused to say what proportion of domestic laws come from Brussels, but a thorough analysis by the German Federal Justice Ministry showed that 84 per cent of the legislation in that country came from the EU.

7. Outside the EU, Britain would be free to negotiate much more liberal trade agreements with third countries than is possible under the Common External Tariff.

8. The countries with the highest GDP per capita in Europe are Norway and Switzerland. Both export more, proportionately, to the EU, than Britain does.

9. Outside the EU, Britain could be a deregulated, competitive, offshore haven.

10. Oh, and we’d be a democracy again.