[DISCUSSION] Should Habbox Managers be able to win large Habbox events/competitions? [Archive]

Hecktix

08-05-2011, 07:27 PM

I'm going to put this one to the public, firstly as a thread and then perhaps as a poll as I am quite uncertain what to call on this matter.

I came online yesterday to numerous complaints about a manager winning a HabboxLive Win a Room - a relatively large competition in the scale of things.

A lot of complaints said that it is wrong for Habbox Managers (Department Managers) to win such events as it can give off the wrong image, and if it happened more often than not we would get a reputation. "Oh don't bother entering that Habbox 150c competition, their managers always win, it's a scam".

This led me to consider whether I should implement a rule that Habbox Department Managers cannot win special Habbox events/competitions involving Habbo prizes (for instance, monopoly, habboxlive big credit shows, easter extravaganza etc) - although managers could participate (and win) in normal events, competitions etc. This is the rule we have in place for General Management so do you think it should be in place for Department Managers too (I think this used to be the case).

However, there is the argument that Department Managers are Habbox Members too and should be given the same right to win as any other Habbox Member.

What do you think, Should Habbox adopt a policy to stop it's Departmental Managers winning large-prize events/competitions?

Naturally, I'm aware that all the managers are on the "we should be able to win" side :P

,Jess,

08-05-2011, 07:31 PM

I don't think managers should be able to, the massive competitions draw in loads of people to Habbox and it is unfair if it goes straight to a manager because its not really leaving Habbox then so it seems a bit like nothing is given away.

Richie

08-05-2011, 07:33 PM

No they shouldn't, neither should staff of the particular department which is hosting the competition.

Samantha

08-05-2011, 07:33 PM

I noticed this not long ago when Philusionate/Dilusionate won a win a room and people were really appauled by it.

Nowin some ways I feel they should be allowed to enter and in some ways I do not.

I feel they should be allowed to enter if they are events such as HxEE HxSS etc as these are more luck based events that occur on Habbo.com.
However, big credit shows, monopoly etc could be taken the wrong way if a manager wins as the host could easily rig the event for the manager which is totally unfair. Then again, shouldn't we trust the staff? Afterall if the staff did scam and rig competitions then I'm sure Habbox's reputation would have gone down the pan years ago and it wouldn't be what it is today.

Maybe put a limit on what they can and can't enter, I feel things more points based and luck based are fine but others may not be as fine. If you get what I mean.

:)!

Sharon

08-05-2011, 07:34 PM

I don't think managers should, but I don't know how to explain it? Like when theres a Saturday Night Quiz in HxHD, HxHD Staff aren't allowed to participate. It's just right to me, but I don't know how to say it?

Matthew.

08-05-2011, 07:34 PM

Well if you're saying that Management can enter competitions etc and win because they are still members, general management are also members of the community and aren't allowed to enter them.

I feel that department managers should be able to partake in such events because how often do you see a department manager win anyways. If the competition is fair then I don't see a problem with letting everyone partake in such events. With the HxL panel there's now a random number generator so if someone if suspicious or what not they could always go back and look at the generated number as proof of it being fair.

Conservative,

08-05-2011, 07:34 PM

Nuxty

08-05-2011, 07:34 PM

I agree with Jess, I don't think we should be able to enter large ones with big prizes as it defeats the object of members of our community winning it, but I think we should be able to enter the normal competitions and things still! :)

Mark

08-05-2011, 07:34 PM

I don't think Managers should be able to win large competitions like that. I think Normal Staff should be able to enter and win though.

myke

08-05-2011, 07:34 PM

no i dont think managers should be able to win the huge prizes, they're made to draw in new members, not to feed the greed of some managers.

hamheyelliot

08-05-2011, 07:36 PM

If they are not involved with the making of it - of course. As long as they had no part in the creation or planning of the event, they are just as clueless as every fan and habbox staff so why shouldn't they?
Exactly! Someone involved with the competition/event should have no part, it's just common sense. But the rest of Habbox Staff, who volunteer their time to the site and have no particular unfair advantage? Why not.

Catzsy

08-05-2011, 07:36 PM

Rozi

08-05-2011, 07:45 PM

Generally in the real world, if you work or are associated with the company running a competition you can't enter. So in short I think it makes sense for hxf to follow this rule but tbh if a manager wins a comp who's to say it's going to go back into hxf, for all I know they might sell it on ebay or whatevs

Mathew

08-05-2011, 08:22 PM

Well as Habbox members I think they should. I know at one time staff couldn't enter some competitions but that was a fairer option than banning managers. It just doesn't seem equitable especially as they have taken the time to join in with the community. Whether they donate the proceeds back to habbox is perhaps something to consider if they are 'rich habbos' but other than that why not. :)
Fully agree with you, Rosie.

I won the HxL Room full of furni yesterday so naturally I'm gonna have some form of opinion on this. Before I start, I'm saying this with the intention of putting all furniture I won BACK into the Events Department, whether it be for prizes in regular events or selling it for credits (to giveaway in a big competition).

Department Managers are people who have dedicated unbelieveable amounts of time to the site and this would prove to be a kick in the teeth if yet another privilage is being taken away. We seem to be forgetting that, believe it or not, it is possible to have a life away from Habbox. Some people still play Habbo NORMALLY, away from the hustle and bustle of HxF, HxHD and HxE. Some people will know that I have random spouts of time in casinos where I'm prepared to give away my own furniture, on the off chance that I win a bet. All my furniture doesn't HAVE to go to Habbox :P

If Department Managers are giving up their free time to help a site out, then I can't help but find it slightly rude that they're being excluded really.

Pyroka gave Alex3213 a throne for his birthday and he donated it to Comps, along with goodness knows how many credits. He didn't have to, but it was done out of goodwill and that is exactly what the majority (if not all) managers would do in that position. It's not the fact that Managers can't win, it's the principle. If they're prepared to put the same amount of effort in as any other member then I find it moronic that you'd be excluded when they are the ones who keep those competitions, events and promotions running.

Hecktix

08-05-2011, 08:32 PM

Fully agree with you, Rosie.

I won the HxL Room full of furni yesterday so naturally I'm gonna have some form of opinion on this. Before I start, I'm saying this with the intention of putting all furniture I won BACK into the Events Department, whether it be for prizes in regular events or selling it for credits (to giveaway in a big competition).

Department Managers are people who have dedicated unbelieveable amounts of time to the site and this would prove to be a kick in the teeth if yet another privilage is being taken away. We seem to be forgetting that, believe it or not, it is possible to have a life away from Habbox. Some people still play Habbo NORMALLY, away from the hustle and bustle of HxF, HxHD and HxE. Some people will know that I have random spouts of time in casinos where I'm prepared to give away my own furniture, on the off chance that I win a bet. All my furniture doesn't HAVE to go to Habbox :P

If Department Managers are giving up their free time to help a site out, then I can't help but find it slightly rude that they're being excluded really.

Pyroka gave Alex3213 a throne for his birthday and he donated it to Comps, along with goodness knows how many credits. He didn't have to, but it was done out of goodwill and that is exactly what the majority (if not all) managers would do in that position. It's not the fact that Managers can't win, it's the principle. If they're prepared to put the same amount of effort in as any other member then I find it moronic that you'd be excluded when they are the ones who keep those competitions, events and promotions running.

I don't really have an opinion on this matter, but does your post here mean you think as the General Manager of Habbox I should be able to enter a 200c competition, and win that 200c? Because going by your "Department managers put a lot of time in etc", I also put a lot of time in. Just interested to hear your response, as I said I don't have an opinion on the managers thing yet as I see both sides of the argument, however I certainly would disagree with the principle of me winning 200c.

Inseriousity.

08-05-2011, 08:33 PM

If they are not involved with the making of it - of course. As long as they had no part in the creation or planning of the event, they are just as clueless as every fan and habbox staff so why shouldn't they?

I agree with this basically. The managers have as much chance as winning as everyone else, so why shouldn't they be allowed to take part?

Phil

08-05-2011, 08:39 PM

I don't really have an opinion on this matter, but does your post here mean you think as the General Manager of Habbox I should be able to enter a 200c competition, and win that 200c? Because going by your "Department managers put a lot of time in etc", I also put a lot of time in. Just interested to hear your response, as I said I don't have an opinion on the managers thing yet as I see both sides of the argument, however I certainly would disagree with the principle of me winning 200c.

I'm not saying this is Matt's reason but I think as a GM you are directly involved with all departments at Habbox. I won a HxL Win a Room hosted by Gina a few months ago and since I am in no way associated with HxL I think it was okay for me to win the prize. If however, yourself or Martin were to win the competition I would think it was a bit "mneh" since you're in some way affiliated with HxL.

I'm very tired and that probably doesn't make much sense but I hope you get my drift.

Ms.Aquamarine

08-05-2011, 08:39 PM

I think Managers should. It would be pretty unfair and like Mat said, the furniture does not have to go to Habbox. Him and the managers could have kept their furniture and used it for things they wanted, but no, they are generous enough to donate.
Like others have said, the managers who helped make a room for a large competition /event shouldn't get to though. Just let the ones who were not involved in the making of a large competition/event have some fun and enjoy!
Plus, during a large event/competition you can put a sticky note that says something like, Thanks to the following who have helped, and list them. ^^

Hecktix

08-05-2011, 08:42 PM

I'm not saying this is Matt's reason but I think as a GM you are directly involved with all departments at Habbox. I won a HxL Win a Room hosted by Gina a few months ago and since I am in no way associated with HxL I think it was okay for me to win the prize. If however, yourself or Martin were to win the competition I would think it was a bit "mneh" since you're in some way affiliated with HxL.

I'm very tired and that probably doesn't make much sense but I hope you get my drift.

No I understand that and believe it's a fair argument. Another thing - is it right for managers to be winning furni and putting it back into Habbox (like Matt did), don't get me wrong of course I ******* love it when this happens, but is it right?

Phil

08-05-2011, 08:48 PM

No I understand that and believe it's a fair argument. Another thing - is it right for managers to be winning furni and putting it back into Habbox (like Matt did), don't get me wrong of course I ******* love it when this happens, but is it right?

Once a manager has won the competition and possesses the furni/credits i believe it's theirs to do what they wish with it. You say it might not be right for them to put it all back into the department but I saw there are a lot of other people who expect nothing but for them to do that. When I won the Win a Room competition I shoved it all into the events quota. Since it's going into the quota for HxE it's going to benefit the Habbox community in one way or another as we showed with competitions such as the Habbox Events Banzai Bash.

Mathew

08-05-2011, 08:54 PM

Another thing - is it right for managers to be winning furni and putting it back into Habbox (like Matt did), don't get me wrong of course I ******* love it when this happens, but is it right?
Mike has also touched on something above, which is to do with chance. The chance of a Habbox Manager winning is slim anyway. When you consider the amount of department managers and the fact you need three of a certain colour in monopoly (and it's all random!) - it's a very slim chance of a Department Manager winning the throne.

But then we must consider - does it really matter if a manager wins the throne? I hope that you choose the right people for your management positions here, Oli, and so they'd be full of dedication, new ideas and commitment; so then they'd put it straight back into Habbox. As I said, it's the principle and the general annoyance of restricting those people who put so much dedication in to the site. If they win, that's fine, because it was done FAIRLY and without leaving anyone out.

If I was you, I'd feel a lot happier about a competition if I knew every person on the site had an equal chance at winning, rather than knowing I may have upset some people by leaving them out.

I don't really have an opinion on this matter, but does your post here mean you think as the General Manager of Habbox I should be able to enter a 200c competition, and win that 200c? Because going by your "Department managers put a lot of time in etc", I also put a lot of time in. Just interested to hear your response, as I said I don't have an opinion on the managers thing yet as I see both sides of the argument, however I certainly would disagree with the principle of me winning 200c.
Indeed, I would also disagree with you winning 200c because the fact is that you've proven yourself to be such a dedicated member of this site and therefore you'd put it straight back into Habbox. To be fair Oli, I think it would be perfectly fine for you to enter but on the slim chance that you won, I would think you'd be committed enough to turn it down and ask for another winner to be chosen. You have every right to claim the 200c, but I think there's a certain point when you hit General Management and your primary focus is to provide for the Habbox Community as opposed to claiming riches.

Alex3213

08-05-2011, 08:54 PM

No I understand that and believe it's a fair argument. Another thing - is it right for managers to be winning furni and putting it back into Habbox (like Matt did), don't get me wrong of course I ******* love it when this happens, but is it right?

Well yeah I say it is fair. This is the situation:

Someone/more than one person donates for a huge competition -> Competition occurs -> Winner is chosen

Once that winner is chosen, they will receive the furniture. They can then use it for whatever they want, if it includes giving it back but for something else (for example a HabboxLive prize could go to help the comps dept) that's their choice. If it means making a room out of it, that's their choice. If it means trading it for credits, it's their choice.

In addition yes, managers should be allowed to participate. I've always thought as long as it's not related to their department its fair enough for them to enter (apart from events and I would say hxl but Jess doesn't enter anyway I don't think because most of the time they actually give it back anyway and it's a bit of fun) because they're members too. Cooldude921 (on hxf of course, not rs anyone who's a smart guy) is allowed to participate as much as Mathew in a competition to win a throne. Mathew doesn't have anything to do with the comps dept, he hasn't shaped it together (although he shouldn't be allowed to win cards from weekly events which is what's happening) and therefore he is allowed that chance to win a throne as much as anyone else.

However, following that principle, General Management should not be allowed to win big events. As I said, I feel that as long as they're not anything to do with the department, they should be allowed to enter. General Management have two words: general meaning covering all and management meaning those in charge of running an area. They are in charge of covering all of the area- in this case hxf. Everything has to be approved by them and thus they should not be allowed to enter big events as they are part of managing the big event.

God knows if that made sense, I am currently tired.

Zak

08-05-2011, 09:54 PM

I think everyone should be able to take part. I trust management not to scam people here, I don't even think for a second that you Oli or Dan, or majority of people high up here at Habbox would do that. That's partly because though, I believe the vast majority of staff are past caring about gaining furniture on an online game :P

I don't ever enter competitions anyway but I do see how some people who don't use Habbox could be persuaded that Habbox scam, just because they don't know what it's like here. Like if i put 100c into entering a competition, then the winner was the event host or like his best friend. I'd be like wtf? :P

Grig

09-05-2011, 06:02 AM

I think managers, if they are not from the department organizing it should be able to. Like anywhere they are part of Habbox and if want to have every right to be part of the community and partake in such events. They can win fairly and squarely without cheating or anything and it will be fair does to them. I got beaten out by Martin in numerous quizzes and stuff, but apart from a few jokes here and there it was a good game and he won fairly and deserved it. If you bring this argument up, you might as well just bring that staff can't enter comps and all those arguments in a chain.

So yeh, I see no problem what so ever in it. If a member moans about it, they can't accept defeat in the face and need to learn a lesson in life, that you loose out more often than not.

redtom

09-05-2011, 07:29 AM

No they shouldn't, it creates the wrong image and is unprofessional. Nor should anyone else in the department.

Maybe you could have a rule that if a member of Habbox staff won a prize at an event in there department or a higher ranking member of staff then the prize would be put into a lottery or given to 2ed place and not the member of staff. This means you would avoid any bad publicity without stopping these people joining in with the events.

nat965

09-05-2011, 08:11 AM

Like many people have said, if they are a manager of another department or haven't participated in the making of the event/competition, they should be allowed to. :)

nvrspk4

09-05-2011, 08:18 AM

Catzsy

09-05-2011, 09:04 AM

I don't think they should be allowed to. For a long time, Habbox Staff weren't even allowed to enter competitions - obviously that changed and I think that's ok.

For big competitions, especially the ones that are hyped up where people are competing hard for it, and then a manager wins, its kind of like a "really?" type reaction. You will never be able to shake the appearance of bias - even though I agree that in most cases its not there. Then again, its hard to prove either way.

That said, a lot of the time that managers win things they put it back into Habbox or their departments - I think that the argument that managers do it for greed is misdirected. Still, it gives off a really bad image, especially to those who aren't as closely connected to Habbox. People who are already fans are probably more willing to believe that its not rigged, but outside people will probably be more suspicious. And one big advantage of the larger events is their ability to attract outside users - especially if a non-Habbox user wins the prize, we are much more likely to retain that user.

Whilst I always respect your views I think on this occasion I disagree. Why single out the managers?
I think the same could be said if I won a prize or any member of the staff. The decision was made to allow staff to enter competitions and it has to be remembered that they are also active members of Habbox as well as staff and are volunteers not employees so the fact that companies do not allow employees to enter really does not apply. Personally I feel that being able to enter the competitions provides an incentive to them as well to keep up with all the hard work they put it each and every day. Obviously how the prize is won has to be completely transparent but if anybody was 'rigging' which I would find hard to believe would ever happen, could easily still happen e.g. the member of staff could make sure a member won and share the proceeds. Most of the competitions are a game of chance and if you put the effort in then you should be entitled to some of the rewards should you be lucky enough to win.

Hecktix

09-05-2011, 11:20 AM

Whilst I always respect your views I think on this occasion I disagree. Why single out the managers?
I think the same could be said if I won a prize or any member of the staff. The decision was made to allow staff to enter competitions and it has to be remembered that they are also active members of Habbox as well as staff and are volunteers not employees so the fact that companies do not allow employees to enter really does not apply. Personally I feel that being able to enter the competitions provides an incentive to them as well to keep up with all the hard work they put it each and every day. Obviously how the prize is won has to be completely transparent but if anybody was 'rigging' which I would find hard to believe would ever happen, could easily still happen e.g. the member of staff could make sure a member won and share the proceeds. Most of the competitions are a game of chance and if you put the effort in then you should be entitled to some of the rewards should you be lucky enough to win.

I am inclined to agree with your argument here. I have tried to remain as impartial on this topic as I can as I recieved quite a few complaints following Mathew's win on Saturday. I am of a strong opinion that Habbox Staff (which includes managers) are nothing more than Habbox members who help out in an official manner. Those of you who have said "staff shouldn't be able to win if they are involved" - don't worry this has always been the case :P.

I put this up for discussion both in the managers meeting and here because it's clear that some people aren't happy with managers winning, discussion is the best way to gain both sides of the story and following posts in this thread I think I have reached my conclusion (although if there's outrage in this thread to what I say perhaps it won't be the action taken).

I think it would be unfair to remove the right of managers uninvolved in these large competitions to participate on the grounds that they are Habbox Members.

General Management will still be refused permission to participate in any competition/event that is not regular (i.e. something special). General Managers can win rounds in regular Habbox Events, however when I have seen this happen (including when I have won myself) I have asked for the prize to be given to the second place finisher, I'm sure this is something Martin, David and Dan would also do.

Further to this, I would like to state that although we will not remove the right to participate as this is quite Nazi-ish, I do expect Habbox Managers to have a notion of care and commitment to Habbox to moderate such activity in the interests of Habbox. Large prizes are often given out as an incentive for people to join or remain at Habbox, I would like to think that managers do not need large prizes as an incentive to stay around, I'd like to think that their commitment would be enough. So, whilst I will not impose a restriction I would urge managers to act in the interests of Habbox, and that is not saying do not participate in such competitions but to moderate such participation in Habbox's interests.

I do not think I can be any fairer than trusting my managers not to take advantage and act in the interests of Habbox.

Mathew

09-05-2011, 01:30 PM

Seems fair enough to me Oli, but I don't think there will be much change as I'm sure that it's something which is probably done already. If Management happen to win a prize then I see no major problem as there's a high chance of it being put straight back into the site. It's also worth mentioning that I won the HxL competition for having the best entry. You had to give a description of your perfect room on Habbo, outlining all the different items of furniture and reasons for it being there. It just so happens that my entry was chosen as the best and therefore rewarded.

Pretty much a mountain out of a molehill here but hey, interesting discussion.

Sarah

09-05-2011, 01:43 PM

I think if it is run by their department then no, however say if Mathew won a competition from HxL then it would be perfectly ok.

Grig

09-05-2011, 01:47 PM

^^ If Mathew won this from a department other than events, then no problemo at all. Managers should simply not be allowed to participate in events of their own departments, otherwise it's all hunky dory :P.

Richie

09-05-2011, 01:47 PM

Small competitions are fine, but they shouldn't be able to enter huge competitions for big prizes. It looks like a hoax from an outside perspective.

Don't be bias because you're a manager. Ask yourself this, if the hotel manager did a competition for 10 thrones and a habbo moderator won, would you be pissed?

You need to remember and with all respect to the users, allot of the people who use habbox are biter and spiteful, they don't like losing. So they'd be looking for any excuse to kick up a fuss.

Stephen

09-05-2011, 01:53 PM

I agree they shouldn't be allowed to enter huge comps but should be able to enter little comps.

If they don't like it then they can easily resign (A)

MissAlice

09-05-2011, 02:29 PM

It’s difficult to please everyone; surely with the number of staff working for Habbox, hidden away from member’s eyes is a staff forum, which includes the occasional competition or event that is solely for the benefit of staff. It allows them the special privilege to enter without any restrictions placed on them, and a chance to win a worthy prize kindly donated either by staff or possibly jin or sierk. I imagine each and every department has ample team members who create and judge a competition/event, and each department then take it in turns to hold such an event, which excludes them from entering. If this isn’t happening, maybe it’s time to consider it.

Mathew

09-05-2011, 04:03 PM

Don't be bias because you're a manager. Ask yourself this, if the hotel manager did a competition for 10 thrones and a habbo moderator won, would you be pissed?
Habbo Moderators are paid. Department Managers are volunteers, so you can't really transfer the norms over to Habbox.

Richie

09-05-2011, 04:05 PM

Yes, but that's because moderators are being paid to give up their time for Habbo because... well, it's their job :P Department Managers here aren't paid, so you can't really transfer the norms over to Habbox.

Even if they weren't getting paid you'd still be pissed and don't say you wouldn't, if you do you're clearly lying to state a point.

If you want to enter competitions that much, resign and enter.

Mathew

09-05-2011, 04:07 PM

Even if they weren't getting paid you'd still be pissed and don't say you wouldn't, if you do you're clearly lying to state a point.

If you want to enter competitions that much, resign and enter.
If they weren't getting paid, then they would be just like Hobbas were, and therefore there would be no problem with them winning 10 thrones... :rolleyes:

Richie

09-05-2011, 04:13 PM

If they weren't getting paid, then they would be just like Hobbas were, and therefore there would be no problem with them winning 10 thrones... :rolleyes:

Well I'd be pissed in my position atm but if I got a managers position I wouldn't be and I'd be all for managers entering competitions because I'm bias like that at least I can admit it :P.

Habboxlive dj goes on air - "we have a comp for 1t, I will pick a winner at 200 listeners" - they get 200 listeners -
"the winner is ,jess,". Sounds great.

Mathew

09-05-2011, 04:21 PM

Well I'd be pissed in my position atm but if I got a managers position I wouldn't be and I'd be all for managers entering competitions because I'm bias like that at least I can admit it :P.

Habboxlive dj goes on air - "we have a comp for 1t, I will pick a winner at 200 listeners" - they get 200 listeners -
"the winner is ,jess,". Sounds great.
That example doesn't work either because obviously I wouldn't be able to win the Easter Extravaganza, or my own department competition, or my own weekly event. We have said countless times in this thread that management can't win competitions from their own department because that's just daft.. :P Naturally this works in the same way that Jess wouldn't win a competition on HabboxLive.

Maybe it's bias, or perhaps it's just recognising that Department Managers are regular members when it's not concerning their department. For lack of a better example, I have no influence or connection whatsoever with HabboxLive. I went through the same process of entering, like everyone else did, and it just so happened that the DJ in question thought my entry was best.

There is also a problem here, if a rule was imposed, that it's way too ambiguous to label what would be considered a "big event" or a "small event." I would say that a "Win a Room" is classed as a small event because they tend to be happening much more often these days, whereas you might think it's big.

Inseriousity.

09-05-2011, 04:22 PM

Jess is involved with the HxL department though. If they're not involved with the running of the competition then they should be allowed to enter. As for moderators winning, it'd really depend on what they were going to do with the prize. If they were going to dump them in a room gathering dust then ye I'd be angry but if they were going to be used for more competitions or more events then no I wouldn't be. That's all managers really do with the prizes they win, they use for their own department.

I think it was dave in the Hx SFE thread that said "Habbox doesn't have vaults of gold" so it's perfectly natural that managers would enter competitions to transfer the winnings from one department to theirs. If they weren't allowed to enter, managers would be reliant on donations to do things so there'd be less big events and it'd be very irregular because donations themselves are irregular. Sometimes you can have lots of donations, other times you have none.

As for new users thinking it's biased, who can honestly say they knew who the management were when they joined because when I joined, I didn't have a clue so "Mathew has won the win a room" I'd be thinking "ah crap I never win" not "oh isnt he a manager, this is outrageous, habbox scams!". While we'll never know as it should remain confidential, I'll be surprised if the majority of the people who complained have been here less than a year.

Richie

09-05-2011, 04:22 PM

That example doesn't work either because obviously I wouldn't be able to win the Easter Extravaganza, or my own department competition, or my own weekly event. We have said countless times in this thread that management can't win competitions from their own department because that's just daft.. :P Naturally this works in the same way that Jess wouldn't win a competition on HabboxLive.

Maybe it's bias, or perhaps it's just recognising that Department Managers are regular members when it's not concerning their department. For lack of a better example, I have no influence or connection whatsoever with HabboxLive. I went through the same process of entering, like everyone else did, and it just so happened that the DJ in question thought my entry was best.

There is also a problem here, if a rule was imposed, that it's way to ambiguous to label what would be considered a "big event" or a "small event."

Are you saying Phil or you can't play events?

---------- Post added 09-05-2011 at 05:23 PM ----------

Jess is involved with the HxL department though. If they're not involved with the running of the competition then they should be allowed to enter. As for moderators winning, it'd really depend on what they were going to do with the prize. If they were going to dump them in a room gathering dust then ye I'd be angry but if they were going to be used for more competitions or more events then no I wouldn't be. That's all managers really do with the prizes they win, they use for their own department.

I think it was dave in the Hx SFE thread that said "Habbox doesn't have vaults of gold" so it's perfectly natural that managers would enter competitions to transfer the winnings from one department to theirs. If they weren't allowed to enter, managers would be reliant on donations to do things so there'd be less big events and it'd be very irregular because donations themselves are irregular. Sometimes you can have lots of donations, other times you have none.

As for new users thinking it's biased, who can honestly say they knew who the management were when they joined because when I joined, I didn't have a clue so "Mathew has won the win a room" I'd be thinking "ah crap I never win" not "oh isnt he a manager, this is outrageous, habbox scams!". While we'll never know as it should remain confidential, I'll be surprised if the majority of the people who complained have been here less than a year.

I'm pretty sure I've seen Phil and Mathew play events, as much as I like both of them I'm just trying to show my argument.

Inseriousity.

09-05-2011, 04:25 PM

Richie

09-05-2011, 04:28 PM

This is a thread about large events though. Mathew would never win Easter Eggstravaganza or enter the Easter quest he did. Whereas smaller events are alright because they're based on luck (rolling of a dice, not getting a carrot, getting a chair first etc etc). If the events hosts posted the questions for their quizzes in the events organiser forum then ofc they shouldn't be allowed to enter but as they don't they have as much advantage as everyone else in the event: zero.

Most of the Eggstravaganza was based on luck in events so I'm confused to what's different other than the prize. Does this mean it's acceptable for ,jess, to win "small prizes" from her djs? or for Nicola to enter a posting competition?

edit I got confused with summer spectacular and Eggstravaganza, either way my point is can they enter summer spectacular because it's based on luck? If so that's just contradicting.

Inseriousity.

09-05-2011, 04:34 PM

Most of the Eggstravaganza was based on luck in events so I'm confused to what's different other than the prize. Does this mean it's acceptable for ,jess, to win "small prizes" from her djs? or for Nicola to enter a posting competition?

What's different is that they organised it. They organise how it works, how the points system would work etc so if they were to win, it would naturally look like they manipulated the admin-side of things to work in their favour whereas with small events, apart from adding an event to a timetable, they don't really have much input into how the event plays out so when they win, they win fairly and that's why it's acceptable (imo).

edit: didnt see your edit as you can see by my quote. the summer spectacular is more bigger and is organised by the general management team so it's not contradictory. It fits into my argument above. If you organise it, you could manipulate it to work in your favour. I'm not saying that managers would do that as I know they wouldn't but that's what it'd look like if they win. Whereas anything they don't organise and they win, I know they won fairly with as much chance as everyone else.

Mathew

09-05-2011, 04:37 PM

Are you saying Phil or you can't play events?

I'm pretty sure I've seen Phil and Mathew play events, as much as I like both of them I'm just trying to show my argument.
I've never mentioned the fact that we can't play small events, we're talking about large scale tournaments and big promotions such as the monopoly and HabboxLive "Win a Room / Thrones" :P

Most of the Eggstravaganza was based on luck in events so I'm confused to what's different other than the prize. Does this mean it's acceptable for ,jess, to win "small prizes" from her djs? or for Nicola to enter a posting competition?
During the Easter Extravaganza, it would be perfectly fine for myself or Phil to take part in events and gain the odd point, but it would be silly for us to try and beat the whole tournament - surely you can understand that for obvious moral reasons. If you've planned and organised something, then you'd be a bit of a moron to try and win it.. :rolleyes:

There is also the fact that, during tournaments such as the EE, small prizes are given out in events IN ADDITION to points, hence I'd still be winning the odd piece of furniture from EOs, but never the whole thing - and that is what the point of this thread is about.

Personally, I would have no problem with a Department Manager trying to win the whole tournament because they would either a) Refuse the prize and give it to 2nd place, or b) Put it back into their own department.

edit I got confused with summer spectacular and Eggstravaganza, either way my point is can they enter summer spectacular?
I have no idea what happens in the HxSS as I've always been on holiday in the past (and I will be this year too :P). I'm under the impression Dept Managers are some form of Team Leaders though? Not sure.

Richie

09-05-2011, 04:41 PM

What's different is that they organised it. They organise how it works, how the points system would work etc so if they were to win, it would naturally look like they manipulated the admin-side of things to work in their favour whereas with small events, apart from adding an event to a timetable, they don't really have much input into how the event plays out so when they win, they win fairly and that's why it's acceptable (imo).

Same would apply to jess, djs don't ask her can they host small events, they just do it. So either way it'd be out of luck (or the host being bias) but then again a host could be bias in an event room. What I'm trying to get at Mike is, how silly would it look if a dj announced jess as the winner of an on air competition? I just don't see how it's any different to events.

It should be do or not. If managers want to enter competitions they should forfeit their position and allow someone else who is capable to give up something in exchange for running their department without bickering, whether it's for or not.

No it's not fair, but managers need to take one for the team. You know as well as I do the majority of the people on here want to be like Charlie sheen (winners) so if I manager did win, they would create a thread complaining, which isn't the sort of thing habbox needs. It's just going to lead to more arguments.

---------- Post added 09-05-2011 at 05:43 PM ----------

I have no idea what happens in the HxSS as I've always been on holiday in the past (and I will be this year too :P). I'm under the impression Dept Managers are some form of Team Leaders though? Not sure.

Team Leaders are still part of that team and can still win prizes.

Inseriousity.

09-05-2011, 04:50 PM

Same would apply to jess, djs don't ask her can they host small events, they just do it. So either way it'd be out of luck (or the host being bias) but then again a host could be bias in an event room. What I'm trying to get at Mike is, how silly would it look if a dj announced jess as the winner of an on air competition? I just don't see how it's any different to events.

It should be do or not. If managers want to enter competitions they should forfeit their position and allow someone else who is capable to give up something in exchange for running their department without bickering, whether it's for or not.

No it's not fair, but managers need to take one for the team. You know as well as I do the majority of the people on here want to be like Charlie sheen (winners) so if I manager did win, they would create a thread complaining, which isn't the sort of thing habbox needs. It's just going to lead to more arguments.

Events management have been entering events for as long as I can remember and this is the first thread I've seen that's brought it up... which is by the general management team. I'm sure you'd have never brought it up. Numerous management have won the small competitions and I haven't had a single complaint about it yet because people know they've won it fairly.

As I've already said and it's a point you've ignored:

I think it was dave in the Hx SFE thread that said "Habbox doesn't have vaults of gold" so it's perfectly natural that managers would enter competitions to transfer the winnings from one department to theirs. If they weren't allowed to enter, managers would be reliant on donations to do things so there'd be less big events and it'd be very irregular because donations themselves are irregular. Sometimes you can have lots of donations, other times you have none.

I also personally think it's quite insulting that you say management should resign and give it to someone "who is capable of giving up something" as I know that management have very frequently dipped into their own funds to provide a big event. "Giving up something" is something management (past, present and very likely future) has done. The very least they can get in return is to enter a big competition that they have no involvement with to earn that back. They are as much a Habbox member outside of their department as everyone else.

Mathew

09-05-2011, 04:54 PM

Same would apply to jess, djs don't ask her can they host small events, they just do it. So either way it'd be out of luck (or the host being bias) but then again a host could be bias in an event room. What I'm trying to get at Mike is, how silly would it look if a dj announced jess as the winner of an on air competition? I just don't see how it's any different to events.
This is a good point, Richie. I would argue, however, that HabboxLive DJs only tend to do one or (at a push) two on-air competitions per show. The events team should be looking at doing 4-5 rounds per hour, on average; therefore there is more chance to win a prize.

There is also the fact that, if Phil or I were to win an event, there is the chance we would give it to 2nd place. Not gonna lie, there are times that I've accepted the prize because I deserved it (obviously.. I won), but this is what I've said all through the thread; the majority of Habbox Managers would turn down prizes for the benefit of Habbox off their own back and therefore there is no need to impose power upon them and ban them from entering competitions or playing events.

If Oli wishes to ban Phil and I from playing our own events (which is daft because it kinda defeats the object of interacting with the community) then so be it, but the joke is on him when he realises there's a group of management who feel detached from the community.

It should be do or not. If managers want to enter competitions they should forfeit their position and allow someone else who is capable to give up something in exchange for running their department without bickering, whether it's for or not.

No it's not fair, but managers need to take one for the team. You know as well as I do the majority of the people on here want to be like Charlie sheen (winners) so if I manager did win, they would create a thread complaining, which isn't the sort of thing habbox needs. It's just going to lead to more arguments.
Well I'm not gonna reply to this, Richie, because I think it's extremely petty to suggest people should resign over something as tiny as this. The thread says [DISCUSSION] for a reason. :)

Team Leaders are still part of that team and can still win prizes.
So be it then. They won fair and square.

Zuth

09-05-2011, 04:57 PM

I think managers should be able to win normal events but not the big ones :P

Richie

09-05-2011, 05:03 PM

This is a good point, Richie. I would argue, however, that HabboxLive DJs only tend to do one or (at a push) two on-air competitions per show. The events team should be looking at doing 4-5 rounds per hour, on average; therefore there is more chance to win a prize.

There is also the fact that, if Phil or I were to win an event, there is the chance we would give it to 2nd place. Not gonna lie, there are times that I've accepted the prize because I deserved it (obviously.. I won), but this is what I've said all through the thread; the majority of Habbox Managers would turn down prizes for the benefit of Habbox off their own back and therefore there is no need to impose power upon them and ban them from entering competitions or playing events.

If Oli wishes to ban Phil and I from playing our own events (which is daft because it kinda defeats the object of interacting with the community) then so be it, but the joke is on him when he realises there's a group of management who feel detached from the community.

Well I'm not gonna reply to this, Richie, because I think it's extremely petty to suggest people should resign over something as tiny as this. The thread says [DISCUSSION] for a reason. :)

So be it then. They won fair and square.

If it's really that petty, stop giving out about it.

Mathew

09-05-2011, 05:10 PM

If it's really that petty, stop giving out about it.
As I've said, the thread title says [DISCUSSION] for a reason. Attacking the arguer instead of the reasoning only weakens your argument, Richie.

Richie

09-05-2011, 05:25 PM

As I've said, the thread title says [DISCUSSION] for a reason. Attacking the arguer instead of the reasoning only weakens your argument, Richie.

What the hell you've been doing the exact same thing, stop contradicting youself, jesus christ I need to play some habbo to release all this stress which you've given me (lol)

Mathew

09-05-2011, 05:27 PM

What the hell you've been doing the exact same thing, stop contradicting youself, jesus christ I need to play some habbo to release all this stress which you've given me (lol)
At least you'd be able to play Events to release stress, eh? Same can't be said for us... :(! :P

beth

10-05-2011, 01:11 AM

i think this is a silly argument, mgmt are habbo users too and at the end of the day have free reign over habbo events etc. i disagree with them generally winning huge prizes over an average user if the competition isn't random (for e.g: d.j choosing their favourite room design or something) but if its a quiz or whatever and they're not hosting, why shouldn't they win?

Casanova

10-05-2011, 02:04 AM

Hecktix

10-05-2011, 02:46 AM

No habbox staff should be allowed to enter competitions if they're of any senior position, so for instance "head X" or "assistant X" "senior X" "... manager".

I'm quite appauled you have NO competitions for your staff already!??!!

Funnily enough, as much as I'd love to have competitions left right and centre, prizes don't grow on trees. Staff have a lot separated for them in terms of rewards as it is, it would only be detrimental to separate staff from normal competitions, this is why the different systems were removed in what, 08? 09? It's proven successful and not to cause any issues letting staff enter basic competitions, it's the ones with larger prizes that people seem to moan about, but as people in this thread have highlighted managers are members too.

Grig

10-05-2011, 10:08 AM

Also, just to add another small point, that by getting staff and managers involved in a way it gets them more involved within the community and makes them seem less disjointed as was the case in the past. This without a doubt will make people feel part of Habbox :).

nvrspk4

10-05-2011, 01:28 PM

Whilst I always respect your views I think on this occasion I disagree. Why single out the managers?
I think the same could be said if I won a prize or any member of the staff. The decision was made to allow staff to enter competitions and it has to be remembered that they are also active members of Habbox as well as staff and are volunteers not employees so the fact that companies do not allow employees to enter really does not apply. Personally I feel that being able to enter the competitions provides an incentive to them as well to keep up with all the hard work they put it each and every day. Obviously how the prize is won has to be completely transparent but if anybody was 'rigging' which I would find hard to believe would ever happen, could easily still happen e.g. the member of staff could make sure a member won and share the proceeds. Most of the competitions are a game of chance and if you put the effort in then you should be entitled to some of the rewards should you be lucky enough to win.

My argument was not based around the employee perspective, it was based on the reality of perception. The perception will be that when our senior staff win, there is a bit of hard feeling, especially in cases where there could be collusion (I am not in any way suggesting that staff ever do collude, though it has happened rarely, merely what it would look like.)

For example: a find-the-DJ game it would be suspicious if a manager won.

Why single out managers and not the rest of the staff? Because there are a lot of staff, and staff are less visible figureheads than managers. The line needs to be drawn somewhere, just that the current team is drawing the line at General Management instead of Managers. There seems to be an implied agreement that perception is indeed an issue - the disagreement is just on where to draw the line - General Management are members as well.

When it comes down to it, I don't think anyone who agrees that General Management shouldn't be involved in comps disagrees with the principle, we just disagree where to draw the line - and that's fine. I personally don't care if a manager wins a competition I'm in - but I think it will have an impact. That said I don't think allowing Managers to enter competitions will destroy Habbox :P

However, I do think Managers should be barred from entering very subjective competitions such as poem competitions or subjective events like Costume Change. Then again, that is a difficult line to police so it may not be worth the effort.

Mathew

10-05-2011, 03:58 PM

General Management are members as well.
I disagree because as Alex3213 clearly pointed out a couple of pages back, the clue is in their job title. They organise and manage the whole of Habbox, so obviously they're going to play a part in the process of the event / competition / tournament. Once you even have the knowledge of it happening, you're at an advantage and therefore they shouldn't be allowed to enter. Same with HxL, I am unaware of most things they do, so why would I be at an advantage?

However, I do think Managers should be barred from entering very subjective competitions such as poem competitions or subjective events like Costume Change. Then again, that is a difficult line to police so it may not be worth the effort.
Yet again I disagree on the poetry competition. The exact point is that it's subjective. Obviously the prize should go to the person who wrote the best poem, and whether that is chosen through votes or one person, it is the final decision and their individual talent should be rewarded.

Costume Change is the only event banned by Habbox, too.

Alex3213

10-05-2011, 04:32 PM

I disagree because as Alex3213 clearly pointed out a couple of pages back, the clue is in their job title. They organise and manage the whole of Habbox, so obviously they're going to play a part in the process of the event / competition / tournament. Once you even have the knowledge of it happening, you're at an advantage and therefore they shouldn't be allowed to enter. Same with HxL, I am unaware of most things they do, so why would I be at an advantage?

Yet again I disagree on the poetry competition. The exact point is that it's subjective. Obviously the prize should go to the person who wrote the best poem, and whether that is chosen through votes or one person, it is the final decision and their individual talent should be rewarded.

Costume Change is the only event banned by Habbox, too.

Yeah I agree with this also. In fact I'm surprised that you want poetry contests as comps managers can't participate because I feel that they're the ones which they should be able to enter. Purely because it's judged on how well the poem is written rather than the bias part of it. If your argument against why they can't enter is because of bias, surely it should be comps like "pick a number between 1 and 200 as I will be picking a winner at random depending on what number comes up on the random number generator!" which they can't enter or simple questions like "What is 20 multiplied by 3?" as a quick HxL comp but has a big prize? Sorry if I don't understand, please explain! :)

Richie

10-05-2011, 04:42 PM

Yeah I agree with this also. In fact I'm surprised that you want poetry contests as comps managers can't participate because I feel that they're the ones which they should be able to enter. Purely because it's judged on how well the poem is written rather than the bias part of it. If your argument against why they can't enter is because of bias, surely it should be comps like "pick a number between 1 and 200 as I will be picking a winner at random depending on what number comes up on the random number generator!" which they can't enter or simple questions like "What is 20 multiplied by 3?" as a quick HxL comp but has a big prize? Sorry if I don't understand, please explain! :)

How exactly are they meant to do that with a poem? They random number generate a poem and that one could be ****.

I want managers to be able to enter most competitions but my point is there is always going to be that one person who assumes they won due to cheating somehow. With smaller competitions I don't think people acknowledge the winners.

Alex3213

10-05-2011, 05:03 PM

How exactly are they meant to do that with a poem? They random number generate a poem and that one could be ****.

I want managers to be able to enter most competitions but my point is there is always going to be that one person who assumes they won due to cheating somehow. With smaller competitions I don't think people acknowledge the winners.

That is not what I said. I'm not stupid, I know that a poetry contest does not get a random winner, the winner is chosen with great inspection of the entries. What I said, however, was that nvr's argument was to bar managers from entering poetry contests, for example- and I presume this would include things such as graphics competitions, story competitions, "what would you do?" situations etc etc. I said that I disagreed with this, I feel that they should be allowed to enter them over any type of competition because I'm presuming nvr's argument is that it's "bias" if they win (in the public point of view thinking "WHAT THE HELL HOW DID THEY WIN THEY'RE A MANAGER HABBOX IS A SCAM" whereas a competition with no input such as the choose a number competition and they win is then when bias could be looked into (even though I know managers wouldn't do it anyway). My post above was showing confusion to why managers should be barred from poetry competitions and the like. :)

Hecktix

10-05-2011, 05:13 PM

That is not what I said. I'm not stupid, I know that a poetry contest does not get a random winner, the winner is chosen with great inspection of the entries. What I said, however, was that nvr's argument was to bar managers from entering poetry contests, for example- and I presume this would include things such as graphics competitions, story competitions, "what would you do?" situations etc etc. I said that I disagreed with this, I feel that they should be allowed to enter them over any type of competition because I'm presuming nvr's argument is that it's "bias" if they win (in the public point of view thinking "WHAT THE HELL HOW DID THEY WIN THEY'RE A MANAGER HABBOX IS A SCAM" whereas a competition with no input such as the choose a number competition and they win is then when bias could be looked into (even though I know managers wouldn't do it anyway). My post above was showing confusion to why managers should be barred from poetry competitions and the like. :)

I think nvr's point, Alex is although we all know there is nothing but positive intentions, we live in a day and age where people throw accusations about. I agree that to someone who has never used Habbox before, to come to a 200c event or something and see a manager win may be a little bit suspicious, obviously if they stuck around they would find out that it's very rare that a manager would win as Habbox competitions (and I use that term as a collective not in reference to the department specifically) are fair. I think there are valid arguments both for and against this topic which is why this thread has put forward a lot of discussion.

I think nvr is right, to a newbie it could cause a bad first impression or even a bad impression of Habbox but the issue is nothing severe enough to warrant any change.

Txyla

10-05-2011, 05:49 PM

I think that Habbox Managers should be able to enter the little events like Falling Furniture and that, but not the big ones like 'WIN 200 CREDITS with....' because mainly, if these are hosted with HxL (like they probably will be) the hosts will probably be a Senior DJ/Radio manager. If this is the case, I think the Radio Managers should not be able to enter. Below Head DJ/Senior DJ should be able to enter, but not higher (normal staff).

Alex3213

10-05-2011, 06:56 PM

I think nvr's point, Alex is although we all know there is nothing but positive intentions, we live in a day and age where people throw accusations about. I agree that to someone who has never used Habbox before, to come to a 200c event or something and see a manager win may be a little bit suspicious, obviously if they stuck around they would find out that it's very rare that a manager would win as Habbox competitions (and I use that term as a collective not in reference to the department specifically) are fair. I think there are valid arguments both for and against this topic which is why this thread has put forward a lot of discussion.

I think nvr is right, to a newbie it could cause a bad first impression or even a bad impression of Habbox but the issue is nothing severe enough to warrant any change.

Alright then I understand your point nvr but like Oli said it's not "severe enough to warrant any change" and won't do much harm leaving it the way it is.

I think that Habbox Managers should be able to enter the little events like Falling Furniture and that, but not the big ones like 'WIN 200 CREDITS with....' because mainly, if these are hosted with HxL (like they probably will be) the hosts will probably be a Senior DJ/Radio manager. If this is the case, I think the Radio Managers should not be able to enter. Below Head DJ/Senior DJ should be able to enter, but not higher (normal staff).

Although a lot of events are hosted by HabboxLive you have to remember there are eight other departments plus the General Management team. :)

Richie

10-05-2011, 10:03 PM

Alright then I understand your point nvr but like Oli said it's not "severe enough to warrant any change" and won't do much harm leaving it the way it is.

Although a lot of events are hosted by HabboxLive you have to remember there are eight other departments plus the General Management team. :)

Now that it's brought up people will fuss, it's just like if they removed the swear filter, people wouldn't swear as often unless you gave them reason to.

Chippiewill

10-05-2011, 11:02 PM

I don't think this is a matter of whether it's right for them to take part or not, it's a matter of political fallout. And really in the instance Management are going to have to take the bullet in some cases. If it's any big thing (Like HxSS) then it's not going to work, if it's heavily publicised on the forum side then it's not going to work, if it's heavily publicised elsewhere, you're going to get away with it.

Ultimately this is one of those cases where I'm unsure why you're asking us, any common sense would do in recognising where people might complain and where they probably won't, manager discretion can probably apply. The important thing to do is to make sure that they can take something out of being a manager that counteracts the negatives.

In terms of the winning to give back to your own department, this probably shouldn't be allowed, because whilst to you, you're separate entities that run as separate teams however, to an outsider, what they see is that Habbox won the prize so they can keep the prize to sucker in more people for a different competition where habbox will win again and offer the prize again elsewhere, it gives a bad impression, I do not doubt it is well intended but I fear it'll come across as a scam.

Josh

13-05-2011, 04:56 PM

I haven't read the thread.

Most the money goes back into Habbox anyway.

Nevertheless, they should be able to enter the Saturday night quiz and minor competitions hosted on Habboxlive - if they tune in. The bigger competitions that get "special" advertising like that on-air quiz the other night shouldn't be "manager-winnable".

Probably repeated the last 7 pages.

Mathew

13-05-2011, 05:25 PM

Yeah that's pretty much what's been said, Josh. :D

..I don't think I'll be entering the on air competition for 200c though. Great way to exclude people who don't want to go on Skype. It's about as unfair as giving someone credits depending on how good looking they are (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=700030)... :rolleyes:.

I haven't read the thread.

Most the money goes back into Habbox anyway.

Nevertheless, they should be able to enter the Saturday night quiz and minor competitions hosted on Habboxlive - if they tune in. The bigger competitions that get "special" advertising like that on-air quiz the other night shouldn't be "manager-winnable".

Probably repeated the last 7 pages.

Hecktix

13-05-2011, 05:34 PM

Richie

13-05-2011, 05:46 PM

Chippiewill

13-05-2011, 06:04 PM

I just think competitions should be based on luck.

This is what I hate, it means that it may as well be a lottery and it's not fun either.

Inseriousity.

13-05-2011, 06:06 PM

..I don't think I'll be entering the on air competition for 200c though. Great way to exclude people who don't want to go on Skype. It's about as unfair as giving someone credits depending on how good looking they are (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=700030)... :rolleyes:.

If we attempted to please everyone, we might as well close down the site now :P

Chippiewill

13-05-2011, 06:40 PM

If we attempted to please everyone, we might as well close down the site now :P

I think you should at least make the effort to please more than one demographic :rolleyes:

Hecktix

13-05-2011, 06:41 PM

I think you should at least make the effort to please more than one demographic :rolleyes:

Given that the show will get around 120 listeners I think that's pleasing enough people, then other shows will please others. That's how this sorta stuff works ;)

scott

13-05-2011, 06:57 PM

Yeah that's pretty much what's been said, Josh. :D

..I don't think I'll be entering the on air competition for 200c though. Great way to exclude people who don't want to go on Skype. It's about as unfair as giving someone credits depending on how good looking they are (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=700030)... :rolleyes:.

It's all a bit of fun it's a real shame people don't seem to understand that.

So you want HabboxLive to do the same competitions every time? Last week we had a 150 credit competition that people could win but you had to do a maze to win, guess that's not fair on people that can't do mazes? :S You can't keep everyone happy all the time and I think the Skype competition is a little change and it's not something that gets done all the time.

But on the topic no I don't think we should be able to enter big competitions, I wont be entering them anyway as it looks rather weird if managers are winning the competitions :D

GommeInc

13-05-2011, 06:57 PM

They shouldn't. Habbox Competitions are for the community, particularly the Habbo side which is drawn in by them. As a Manager, you should probably be doing other things than entering competitions :P

Catzsy

14-05-2011, 08:22 AM

They shouldn't. Habbox Competitions are for the community, particularly the Habbo side which is drawn in by them. As a Manager, you should probably be doing other things than entering competitions :P

Staff are members of the community too:P

lawrawrrr

14-05-2011, 08:30 AM

Just my two cents....

Managers aren't habbo-rich, but often end up giving away their own personal furni/creds for the benefit of their department/habbox in general. As long as they've had nothing to do with the planning, I think it's perfectly acceptable if they enter/win comps, or they're effectively donating real money for Habbox, through buying creds etc. As others have said, there is a good chance with all managers that they'd end up donating the majority back to Habbox anyway, so I don't really see the problem with winning these comps.

I know a few of you might think 'oh that's not how it works where I work' etc, but this isn't, at the end of the day, a professional workplace - it's a fansite for (mainly) teenagers - I don't see why manager shouldn't be able to have the fun from winning the creds - 'cos they might even use the creds elsewhere on Habbo - that's like taking away their free and fun time.

GommeInc

14-05-2011, 03:01 PM

Staff are members of the community too:P
They're staff, they're there to serve it :P Being staff makes them part of the community, but they're like the Police Officers, Social Workers and Street Corner members of the community at a street fayre who have special stalls erected for the community to play with :P That said, staff could enter competitions if they have had nothing to do with the planning... Managers are a different story, but it depends what a "Manager" is at Habbox. Managers tend to have quite an important "close-knit" role at the top of the food chain, where their duties tend to be different to that of regular staff and more associated with the day to day running of the community. Managers should probably be exempt, but regular staff could enter :/

nvrspk4

15-05-2011, 05:51 AM

I'm tempted to agree with Gomme (actually, not just tempted - I do, as I've made clear.) I also have other reasons for it which are more utilitarian/practical, but I can predict that in a popular contest those will be voted down, they're the type of reasons that a decision might be made from the top down for ;)

That is not what I said. I'm not stupid, I know that a poetry contest does not get a random winner, the winner is chosen with great inspection of the entries. What I said, however, was that nvr's argument was to bar managers from entering poetry contests, for example- and I presume this would include things such as graphics competitions, story competitions, "what would you do?" situations etc etc. I said that I disagreed with this, I feel that they should be allowed to enter them over any type of competition because I'm presuming nvr's argument is that it's "bias" if they win (in the public point of view thinking "WHAT THE HELL HOW DID THEY WIN THEY'RE A MANAGER HABBOX IS A SCAM" whereas a competition with no input such as the choose a number competition and they win is then when bias could be looked into (even though I know managers wouldn't do it anyway). My post above was showing confusion to why managers should be barred from poetry competitions and the like. :)

You misunderstood my point slightly - I don't think that there WOULD be bias, I was arguing the impression that other people - particularly those with little to no experience with Habbox - would have as a result of that outcome. By the same token, managers often donate prizes back or use them for future prizes - but that's not how people look at it. To a certain degree, perception is very important.

Catzsy

15-05-2011, 08:22 AM

They're staff, they're there to serve it :P Being staff makes them part of the community, but they're like the Police Officers, Social Workers and Street Corner members of the community at a street fayre who have special stalls erected for the community to play with :P That said, staff could enter competitions if they have had nothing to do with the planning... Managers are a different story, but it depends what a "Manager" is at Habbox. Managers tend to have quite an important "close-knit" role at the top of the food chain, where their duties tend to be different to that of regular staff and more associated with the day to day running of the community. Managers should probably be exempt, but regular staff could enter :/

All staff are here to serve the community and as I said previously they are not employees they are volunteers so you can't compare with police forces, social workers etc so I don't see why managers should be singled out here.
It has already been said that Managers cannot enter a competition within their own department. As far as perception goes that could be said of any staff winning and I don't think 90% of the members are as sceptical as that. There maybe one or two but as long as the competition and prize giving is completely transparent, I don't see a problem.

Alex3213

15-05-2011, 08:53 AM

I'm tempted to agree with Gomme (actually, not just tempted - I do, as I've made clear.) I also have other reasons for it which are more utilitarian/practical, but I can predict that in a popular contest those will be voted down, they're the type of reasons that a decision might be made from the top down for ;)

You misunderstood my point slightly - I don't think that there WOULD be bias, I was arguing the impression that other people - particularly those with little to no experience with Habbox - would have as a result of that outcome. By the same token, managers often donate prizes back or use them for future prizes - but that's not how people look at it. To a certain degree, perception is very important.

Yeah sorry my post wasn't clear, I know what you mean. That's why competitions staff can't enter competitions because they're posted in advance anyway and if a comps staff won a comp (dun dun dun) it'd look slightly dodgy. However when it comes to the fact that managers have nothing to do with the event which is being held I think it'd be fair enough for them to be allowed to enter. After all, it's quite a low probability that they'd lose anyway and most of the managers would either give it to second place or donate it to Habbox (and yes, I have read your post but if they win it's their choice what they do with it :P)

Bradobbin

15-05-2011, 09:17 AM

I think they shouldn't be allowed to win, it effectively allows staff to build hype for a competition then simply transfer wealth around the site..

GommeInc

15-05-2011, 10:41 AM

All staff are here to serve the community and as I said previously they are not employees they are volunteers so you can't compare with police forces, social workers etc so I don't see why managers should be singled out here.
It has already been said that Managers cannot enter a competition within their own department. As far as perception goes that could be said of any staff winning and I don't think 90% of the members are as sceptical as that. There maybe one or two but as long as the competition and prize giving is completely transparent, I don't see a problem.
Because managers do not need to participate, they're already happy members of the community and so they should be serving the community than the staff who are meant to also be serving the community. If Staff want to participate in competitions, make a new Staff Competition Department as competitions for the Community should be reserved for members who are not staff as they're the ones you're meant to be satisfying as they're the ones that make up the majority of the very essence of a fansite, not the staff - they only make up a tiny percentage.

Catzsy

15-05-2011, 10:46 AM

Because managers do not need to participate, they're already happy members of the community and so they should be serving the community than the staff who are meant to also be serving the community. If Staff want to participate in competitions, make a new Staff Competition Department as competitions for the Community should be reserved for members who are not staff as they're the ones you're meant to be satisfying as they're the ones that make up the majority of the very essence of a fansite, not the staff - they only make up a tiny percentage.

I am sure all staff are happy members of the community. Can't see the logic here at all. I think I will agree to disagree with you on this, Gomme. :D

-:Undertaker:-

21-05-2011, 04:11 PM

During my two periods as manager whenever we had a game with public or just staff i'd usually refrain from playing or if I did play and win, i'd pass the prize onto the person who came second as to avoid this all hassle and because I myself didn't need it or want it. I don't think a rule is needed as it should be down to the manager what he or she wishes to do.

Perhaps just exercise some common sense depending on circumstances rather than implement more rules.

Eoin247

22-05-2011, 10:34 AM

lawrawrrr

22-05-2011, 10:39 AM

I think that managers should refrain from entering competitions.

Theres only one reason for this and that is the public image of habbox. Having a manager of any sort winning a competition does not look good for habbox. In all organisations in real life, staff aren't even allowed to enter their employers competitions.

If you ever read the T&Cs of any competition it will state that any staff or relatives associated with the organisation running the competition, cannot enter.

I mean think about it, what would the publics reaction be if Steve Jobs or some other high up staffer at Apple won an Apple made competition?

But the people working at Apple are PAID to work there, we work as managers out of the goodness of our own hearts (lol) because we love Habbox! If we were paid, yes it would be wrong to then take MORE funds from habbox, but as we're not, why should we give up our fun?

Eoin247

22-05-2011, 10:58 AM

But the people working at Apple are PAID to work there, we work as managers out of the goodness of our own hearts (lol) because we love Habbox! If we were paid, yes it would be wrong to then take MORE funds from habbox, but as we're not, why should we give up our fun?

Relatives of people who work at these companies aren't paid yet they are barred from entering too. Organisations with volunteers as staff in real life also don't usally allow their staff to enter their competitions ( the only exceptions usualy being small-medium scale fundraisers for charity).

It's unfortunate that this is the case, but things can't always be made to be ideal. Managers (and even staff associated with the competition) winning competitions can be percieved very badly by onlookers, especialy outside of habbox.

If i was a manager or if i was associated with the competition in any way, i wouldn't enter regardless if there was a rule there or not.

That said some (or most) forum based competitions would probably be fine for managers to enter as most of the forum community would know that competitions run here are legitimate.

lawrawrrr

22-05-2011, 11:22 AM

Relatives of people who work at these companies aren't paid yet they are barred from entering too. Organisations with volunteers as staff in real life also don't usally allow their staff to enter their competitions ( the only exceptions usualy being small-medium scale fundraisers for charity).

It's unfortunate that this is the case, but things can't always be made to be ideal. Managers (and even staff associated with the competition) winning competitions can be percieved very badly by onlookers, especialy outside of habbox.

If i was a manager or if i was associated with the competition in any way, i wouldn't enter regardless if there was a rule there or not.

That said some (or most) forum based competitions would probably be fine for managers to enter as most of the forum community would know that competitions run here are legitimate.

Oh definietly not if you're associated with the competition or knew how it ran etc etc, but if it's a random generator such as on HabboxLive or PMing competitions (or comps where friends haven't hosted/chosen winners) then why should it effect anything? I think it's a shame if they're banned, because it's fun, if nothing else!

Mathew

22-05-2011, 11:23 AM

That said some (or most) forum based competitions would probably be fine for managers to enter as most of the forum community would know that competitions run here are legitimate.
Are you suggesting that forum based competitions are more legitimate than those run by Events or HxHD for example? How does a "forum based competition" differ from anything else? :rolleyes:..

Eoin247

22-05-2011, 11:35 AM

Oh definietly not if you're associated with the competition or knew how it ran etc etc, but if it's a random generator such as on HabboxLive or PMing competitions (or comps where friends haven't hosted/chosen winners) then why should it effect anything? I think it's a shame if they're banned, because it's fun, if nothing else!

I agree that it would be a shame, but you got to weigh out the downsides here. I think habboxlive is the main place that managers shouldn't enter competitions as it is announced to a live audience. It just doesn't look good. Managers are the minority of habboxlive listeners and you must take into consideration what the majority of the listeners would say and want. If habboxlive listeners were given a poll on this what do you really think 99% orso of them would say?

lawrawrrr

22-05-2011, 11:39 AM

I agree that it would be a shame, but you got to weigh out the downsides here. I think habboxlive is the main place that managers shouldn't enter competitions as it is announced to a live audience. It just doesn't look good. Managers are the minority of habboxlive listeners and you must take into consideration what the majority of the listeners would say and want. If habboxlive listeners were given a poll on this what do you really think 99% orso of them would say?

I do think that with bigger competitions, it's a good way to get new members, and a manager/senior staff member winning makes it seem maybe like a fix, even if it is completely legit. Of course HxL listeners would disagree - if someone said "We'll take 10 or so competitors away" you'd have to be mad to say 'no thanks' to that! Smaller comps tho, I doubt most listeners would realise who they are - although jess entering a HxL comp would be wrong IMO, as she has responsiblity over her staff, same as we do for comps people.

Eoin247

22-05-2011, 11:40 AM

Are you suggesting that forum based competitions are more legitimate than those run by Events or HxHD for example? How does a "forum based competition" differ from anything else? :rolleyes:..

You misunderstood my post. I didn't say they were more legitimate, i said that people on the forums know for a fact that habbox run legitimate competitions. Listeners on habboxlive for the mostpart are "regular habbos" that aren't part of the forum community and wouldn't know from past experiences in general. Also events run in habbo would bring in habbos that aren't familiar with habbox too. People on the forum here know from experience that competitions are legitimate.

Red

22-05-2011, 11:41 AM

I don't think managers or even event staff should be allowed to enter competitions.

Eoin247

22-05-2011, 11:45 AM

I do think that with bigger competitions, it's a good way to get new members, and a manager/senior staff member winning makes it seem maybe like a fix, even if it is completely legit. Of course HxL listeners would disagree - if someone said "We'll take 10 or so competitors away" you'd have to be mad to say 'no thanks' to that! Smaller comps tho, I doubt most listeners would realise who they are - although jess entering a HxL comp would be wrong IMO, as she has responsiblity over her staff, same as we do for comps people.

True to an extent. But i think that habboxlive listeners for the mostpart would disagree rather for the fear of a scam rather than reducing the competitiors. This entire thread stemmed from people complaining about a manager winning a hxl competition.

Samantha

22-05-2011, 11:51 AM

I don't think managers or even event staff should be allowed to enter competitions.

This used to be the case and we had staff members resigning just to take part, I don't think that's a good image for Habbox at all!

Edit: Saw you just mention competitions/events. Competitions staff shouldn't be allowed to enter, as a reason said below.
However, I think Event staff should be allowed as Events aren't always associated with competitions!

If competitions and events were a merged group then of course I fully agree with you, but not in this way!
Also, HabboxComps competitions are picked randomly therefore I think Managers should be allowed to enter. Just with non PM based comps, afterall it goes to the best answer!

Moreover, if it was HxL win a room I feel DJs should not be allowed to enter, they win too much, I'm not saying it's a farse but it's true!
Maybe they should take a leaf out of the Gameshow Marathon's book and not allow them to win however, sure they can participate!

It's just like that for HxHD and Competitions so why not HxL seems fair?
HxHD could seem fixed if a staff won, so can comps, so again, why not HxL?

I think some people may feel that of a manager won a competitions, it's just going to go back to Habbox they don't give prizes away yada yada yada.

If you get what I mean? :3!

lawrawrrr

22-05-2011, 11:54 AM

Yeah I agree with sam - I don't think anyone in the specific department should be allowed to enter, like with the Monopoly, the comps staff can still get tickets, just through events, not through the comps side. I can see why comps staff can't enter - due to the comps being posted before they get released into the public eye, but with HxHD and the SNQ, no other staff apart from the host (and maybe someone who helped to write questions) can know the answers - but none of them are allowed to enter. Why isn't this the case for events/hxl?

Samantha

22-05-2011, 12:00 PM

Eoin247

22-05-2011, 12:04 PM

I think it's because most events are luck based whereas HxL could be easy to rig? No offence to HxL and not saying it is rigged! However, I was listening the other week and a dj, a manager and another manager won the win a rooms, maybe conincidence, but it didn't give me a good impression of Habbox and I tuned out. Maybe if other listeners were part of the Habbox Community and knew the staff they may not listen anymore as it could be seen as rigged.

In a way, maybe event staff shouldn't enter quizzes/payday etc, as it's easy to spread the answers!

I didn't realise that this was as common as it seems to be from the bolded text above.

If they are winning regularly to any extent it is a very big problem. Bigger than i thought it was. It makes habbox look very bad. DJs shouldn't be allowed to enter hxl comps regardless.

Mathew

22-05-2011, 12:10 PM

You misunderstood my post. I didn't say they were more legitimate, i said that people on the forums know for a fact that habbox run legitimate competitions. Listeners on habboxlive for the mostpart are "regular habbos" that aren't part of the forum community and wouldn't know from past experiences in general. Also events run in habbo would bring in habbos that aren't familiar with habbox too. People on the forum here know from experience that competitions are legitimate.
When is the point when you realise "Habbox doesn't rig" then? Just like most things, it's far too ambiguous and you can't generalise like that.

I don't think managers or even event staff should be allowed to enter competitions.
lol

Yeah I agree with sam - I don't think anyone in the specific department should be allowed to enter, like with the Monopoly, the comps staff can still get tickets, just through events, not through the comps side. I can see why comps staff can't enter - due to the comps being posted before they get released into the public eye, but with HxHD and the SNQ, no other staff apart from the host (and maybe someone who helped to write questions) can know the answers - but none of them are allowed to enter. Why isn't this the case for events/hxl?
To be fair, I don't see any reason why HxHD Staff can't win the SNQ.

But yeah, it isn't (and shouldn't) be the case for HxL and Events because we should be encouraging staff to help out their fellow staff members in their events. I know for a fact that a lot of "staff bonding" happens in regular events and it helps to create a closer-knit group. Disallowing EOs from winning events would be nothing but detrimental; it encourages staff to talk to each other, it gets them involved with the community, it helps them to win prizes which they can give out in their own events and it helps to boost the rooms activity. I think you'd be quite odd to suggest Dilusionate could rig a Pod Racing so that Jurv could win... :rolleyes:

However, I was listening the other week and a dj, a manager and another manager won the win a rooms, maybe conincidence, but it didn't give me a good impression of Habbox and I tuned out.
Wow, so dramatic. I highly doubt there were three "win a rooms" in a row and I highly doubt two members of management won it lol...

In a way, maybe event staff shouldn't enter quizzes/payday etc, as it's easy to spread the answers!
Good to know the amount of trust amongst Habbox Staff these days.

lawrawrrr

22-05-2011, 12:20 PM

To be fair, I don't see any reason why HxHD Staff can't win the SNQ.

But yeah, it isn't (and shouldn't) be the case for HxL and Events because we should be encouraging staff to help out their fellow staff members in their events. I know for a fact that a lot of "staff bonding" happens in regular events and it helps to create a closer-knit group. Disallowing EOs from winning events would be nothing but detrimental; it encourages staff to talk to each other, it gets them involved with the community, it helps them to win prizes which they can give out in their own events and it helps to boost the rooms activity. I think you'd be quite odd to suggest Dilusionate could rig a Pod Racing so that Jurv could win... :rolleyes:

Pod Racing, no. Anything else? Possibly. Quiz answers could be given away on skype (another thing I see wrong with SNQ, let's not go there), FF chair placements told in advance, biased to place chairs nearer friends, TBH it's never going to be completely fair, no matter how hard you try, and I don't really see anything wrong with this, unless it's the same person winning the same host's events all the time. Staff entering other staff event's I can live with, as long as they're not huge prizes.

Yes I'm aware that goes against what I just posted but my head's not on straight today :S

Mathew

22-05-2011, 12:24 PM

Pod Racing, no. Anything else? Possibly. Quiz answers could be given away on skype (another thing I see wrong with SNQ, let's not go there), FF chair placements told in advance, biased to place chairs nearer friends, TBH it's never going to be completely fair, no matter how hard you try, and I don't really see anything wrong with this, unless it's the same person winning the same host's events all the time. Staff entering other staff event's I can live with, as long as they're not huge prizes.

Yes I'm aware that goes against what I just posted but my head's not on straight today :S
I'm not sure where you stand on this anymoe but I'll just leave a comment for anyone else who wishes to reply:

What makes it more likely for an EO to be bias towards another EO? Surely they could tell their friends (who are non-staff) answers on Skype... etc? :)

Eoin247

22-05-2011, 12:26 PM

When is the point when you realise "Habbox doesn't rig" then? Just like most things, it's far too ambiguous and you can't generalise like that.

Do you not realise that there's an absolutely huge difference between the hxl listener community and the forum posting community? It's the case for the vast vast majority of both of these communities. Not many from either communities overlap. If you want to be completely safe in protecting the habbox image, then ban managers from all competitions then. I was suggesting to allow them do forum competitions as you wouldn't get any complaints and it would be a nice compromise so that managers can still participate in things. The vast majority of the forum have a lot of trust for habbox competitions. Unlike listeners of hxl, where the majority know very little if anything about habbox or of its staff.

---------- Post added 22-05-2011 at 01:29 PM ----------

I'm not sure where you stand on this anymoe but I'll just leave a comment for anyone else who wishes to reply:

What makes it more likely for an EO to be bias towards another EO? Surely they could tell their friends (who are non-staff) answers on Skype... etc? :)

The main point is not that habbox comps are rigged. It's that people unfamiliar with habbox might think they are rigged if managers/ staffers associated with the comps win. It's about habbox's image more than anything else as i've repeatedly said.

Hecktix

22-05-2011, 12:33 PM

Mathew

22-05-2011, 01:14 PM

I think there's a lot of confusion within this thread towards people suggesting that things may appear rigged. They are quite clearly suggesting that these things to newcomers to Habbox may seem rigged. Everybody already here knows Habbox are probably one of the most stringent fansites in terms of competitions/regulations.

But look at it from this point of view:

1) You've been using Habbo for 2 weeks
2) You see a room that says [Habbox.com] Win 200c!
3) You enter the competition, you're having a really good time
4) "The Winner is Mathew"
5) You then find out that "Mathew" is a manager at Habbox.
6) As a young, new member who's not familiar with Habbox at all - how could this look?

That's what these people are trying to say, Matt - not that Habbox does rig.
That's perfectly understandable, I'm not stupid.. :P

If you're suggesting people already here, (meaning people who "follow" Habbox) understand Habbox to be "one of the most stringent fansites", then there is no problem. Yet again, you are suggesting that people on the forum form the basis to Habbox, when in actual fact, the forum is merely a department just like any other and not the whole centre of Habbox.

Do you not realise that there's an absolutely huge difference between the hxl listener community and the forum posting community? It's the case for the vast vast majority of both of these communities. Not many from either communities overlap. If you want to be completely safe in protecting the habbox image, then ban managers from all competitions then. I was suggesting to allow them do forum competitions as you wouldn't get any complaints and it would be a nice compromise so that managers can still participate in things. The vast majority of the forum have a lot of trust for habbox competitions. Unlike listeners of hxl, where the majority know very little if anything about habbox or of its staff.

Eoin is suggesting that management should be allowed to enter forum based competitions, but not HabboxLive. What I'm saying is that you can't generalise two groups of people to form that conclusion. You're making HabboxLive listeners appear as vulnerable, guillable morons whereas forum members are apparently grown up, trustworthy and understanding people.

If you want to be completely safe in protecting the habbox image, then ban managers from all competitions then.
The answer to protecting the Habbox image is banning things left, right and centre? Hey, let's move away from ---MAD---'s time, eh?

Oh and also as I've said several times, you can't restrict people to enter and ignore certain competitions. Define what is considered big?

Hecktix

22-05-2011, 01:19 PM

That's perfectly understandable, I'm not stupid.. :P

If you're suggesting people already here, (meaning people who "follow" Habbox) understand Habbox to be "one of the most stringent fansites", then there is no problem. Yet again, you are suggesting that people on the forum form the basis to Habbox, when in actual fact, the forum is merely a department just like any other and not the whole centre of Habbox.

You are taking assumptions from my post which are incorrect. I'm not suggesting that people on the forum form the basis of Habbox, nowhere in that post did I suggest this, I quite clearly highlighted the difference between someone who follows Habbox and someone who is new to Habbox, this is the same for any department.

Oh and also as I've said several times, you can't restrict people to enter and ignore certain competitions. Define what is considered big?

Exactly what we consider "special" events, more one-off things.

Then again, I've given my decision on this matter and I'm not going to change it so I don't know why you are still arguing over it, I've left it in the hands of the managers to behave responsibly.

Samantha

22-05-2011, 02:47 PM

When is the point when you realise "Habbox doesn't rig" then? Just like most things, it's far too ambiguous and you can't generalise like that.

lol

To be fair, I don't see any reason why HxHD Staff can't win the SNQ.

But yeah, it isn't (and shouldn't) be the case for HxL and Events because we should be encouraging staff to help out their fellow staff members in their events. I know for a fact that a lot of "staff bonding" happens in regular events and it helps to create a closer-knit group. Disallowing EOs from winning events would be nothing but detrimental; it encourages staff to talk to each other, it gets them involved with the community, it helps them to win prizes which they can give out in their own events and it helps to boost the rooms activity. I think you'd be quite odd to suggest Dilusionate could rig a Pod Racing so that Jurv could win... :rolleyes:

Wow, so dramatic. I highly doubt there were three "win a rooms" in a row and I highly doubt two members of management won it lol...

Good to know the amount of trust amongst Habbox Staff these days.

I didn't say in a row, when I've listened and sometimes entered I have noticed those winning!

And, I do trust the staff, but you never know do you as Laura said about different events.

Eoin247

23-05-2011, 01:21 PM

Eoin is suggesting that management should be allowed to enter forum based competitions, but not HabboxLive. What I'm saying is that you can't generalise two groups of people to form that conclusion. You're making HabboxLive listeners appear as vulnerable, guillable morons whereas forum members are apparently grown up, trustworthy and understanding people.

In these sort of cases you have to do what's best and what's wanted for the majority rather than the minority. Habboxlive listeners are younger than the active habboxforum members in general, that doesn't make them morons and i never meant to portray them in that way (I don't see where i did though? ).

A quote from my previous post to finish this answer:

The vast majority of the forum have a lot of trust for habbox competitions. Unlike listeners of hxl, where the majority know very little if anything about habbox or of its staff.

The answer to protecting the Habbox image is banning things left, right and centre? Hey, let's move away from ---MAD---'s time, eh?

Your misreading our posts in this thread, as Oli did point out. This is not what i meant.