Talking about bans on the forum

[Richie]

Hey,
I'm sure there is a good reason behind it but I can't seem to figure it out. Why is it that you don't allow people to talk about bans on the forum? I don't mean publicly, instead of having http://www.habboxforum.com/support/ why not just have an additional forum that only management can see?

I know it's not a big deal but it would be way easier if there was a sub forum in feedback, where you could discuss your ban etc.

I don't really see the need for an additional system, it just makes things a nuisance. I suppose it's just easier, that way you don't have to login twice.


edit:
Can you login to the support system whilst on a ban? if so then that makes sense lol

[Neversoft]

The rule probably prevents a ton of arguments on the forum, but it is pretty inconvenient when you have been banned unfairly or have no idea why you are banned. I also think it is quite rude when you create a new account (if you do) and ask why you have been banned or explain why you feel you should be unbanned and all they say is 'use the support form' so you have go to and type it out all again and they have to read it all again. I really don't see why a PM cannot suffice. When I got permed back in the day I created a new account, posted why I felt my ban was unfair in the complaints section and forwarded the link to MAD and sierk and I was then promptly unbanned, then the new account I had created was merged into my current one.

There should be a private section of the forum where only admins and guests can post so you can appeal your ban that way. Things just seem to get done faster on the forum and while they say you'll get a reply within 24 hours or whatever it is my experience with the support thing hasn't been that great.

[Catzsy]

The rule probably prevents a ton of arguments on the forum, but it is pretty inconvenient when you have been banned unfairly or have no idea why you are banned. I also think it is quite rude when you create a new account (if you do) and ask why you have been banned or explain why you feel you should be unbanned and all they say is 'use the support form' so you have go to and type it out all again and they have to read it all again. I really don't see why a PM cannot suffice. When I got permed back in the day I created a new account, posted why I felt my ban was unfair in the complaints section and forwarded the link to MAD and sierk and I was then promptly unbanned, then the new account I had created was merged into my current one.

There should be a private section of the forum where only admins and guests can post so you can appeal your ban that way. Things just seem to get done faster on the forum and while they say you'll get a reply within 24 hours or whatever it is my experience with the support thing hasn't been that great.

This is my personal point of view only!

Under present policy:

1. If you cannot remember your password or are on auto login and are away you cannot use the support system you cannot use the main account.

2. If you make a new account it is banned and you have to use the support system to retrieve the password for the original account

This doesn't seem common sense to me and all it seems to do is upset & inconvenience members. There is nothing wrong with telling the member on the temporary account to use the support system as it should be sorted out pretty quickly but banning it is the problem, I believe. Once the original account has been retrieved the temporary account can then be banned. I only found out recently that you can use the support system with a banned account using that password but I wonder how many members actually know this? Maybe this FAQ information could be updated to inform members that a banned account will log in. http://www.habboxforum.com/faq.php?faq=banned#faq_ban_appeal

The support system cost quite a bit of money I believe and was originally intended for use for the whole of customer support by the defunct community section.

[scott]

I'm pretty sure like neversoft has said that it is not allowed to be discussed due to the fact that it could lead to arguments and obviously some people are banned for reasons that others on the forum don't really need to know so it is best to be kept out of the public.

I think the support system is fine for discussing ban issues personally, you can use it if your account is banned. When you are banned you do get shown a ban reason so you are aware as to why your account has been banned. I think if we had a forum for it to be discussed on here the person would need another account but the original account was banned for whatever reason and then allowing them to have another account and making sure that they only post in a forum to discuss the ban would be quite a lot of work. If they were allowed another account they could freely post around the forum which would void the whole point in them having a banned account.

I do agree with what Rosie has said and it would be good to add it to that part of the FAQ I will speak with Nicola about it.

[Hecktix]

We like to encourage users to use the support system to discourage them from making another account as this is something that is obviously against the rules. My view on the matter of second accounts being created, a user posting a thread in complaints about their ban or whatever (if the ban is on non-rule breaking grounds or if they have forgotten their password) was always that once the complaint has been replied to the account can be banned as you've been directed to the correct place and therefore cannot continue the conversation in the incorrect place. Unfortunately what I did not realise was that the "complaints" forum is not available to guests so you wouldn't be able to see the reply.

So this is my view on it based on the above knowledge reaching my attention:

1) Bans should only be discussed on HabboxForum Support. This is because you can access support using a banned account and the support system is public for General and Forum Management therefore this restricts bias and enhances the monitoring of the fairness of the ban systems. This also discourages second accounts, if you have to make a new account it's likely you'll just try to post around on that if you are banned, thus avoiding your ban.

2) If you forget your password, you are free to create a new account however that new account should only be created with the means of getting your password to your main account for instance by PMing Forum Management - yes they will only tell you to use support as that is the best way of confirming who you are, and again - it's monitored. Your second account should not be banned until you have your main account back (given that guests cannot view PMs nor complaints).

3) The only circumstance in which a second account would be permitted to use the forum, is if you feel that for security reasons whilst you are away you cannot use your main account, this permission can only be granted by the Forum Manager so PM them in these cases.

I would be in favour of using emails rather than the support system, as here you don't need an account however since one of my predecessors spent an awful amount of money on the support system, Jin is keen for us to continue using it - again with emails you would have the privacy issue of it not being able to be monitored as easily and it will also be more difficult to determine you are through lack of IP (if IP was being used to prove who you are).

[Richie]

We like to encourage users to use the support system to discourage them from making another account as this is something that is obviously against the rules. My view on the matter of second accounts being created, a user posting a thread in complaints about their ban or whatever (if the ban is on non-rule breaking grounds or if they have forgotten their password) was always that once the complaint has been replied to the account can be banned as you've been directed to the correct place and therefore cannot continue the conversation in the incorrect place. Unfortunately what I did not realise was that the "complaints" forum is not available to guests so you wouldn't be able to see the reply.

So this is my view on it based on the above knowledge reaching my attention:

1) Bans should only be discussed on HabboxForum Support. This is because you can access support using a banned account and the support system is public for General and Forum Management therefore this restricts bias and enhances the monitoring of the fairness of the ban systems. This also discourages second accounts, if you have to make a new account it's likely you'll just try to post around on that if you are banned, thus avoiding your ban.

2) If you forget your password, you are free to create a new account however that new account should only be created with the means of getting your password to your main account for instance by PMing Forum Management - yes they will only tell you to use support as that is the best way of confirming who you are, and again - it's monitored. Your second account should not be banned until you have your main account back (given that guests cannot view PMs nor complaints).

3) The only circumstance in which a second account would be permitted to use the forum, is if you feel that for security reasons whilst you are away you cannot use your main account, this permission can only be granted by the Forum Manager so PM them in these cases.

I would be in favour of using emails rather than the support system, as here you don't need an account however since one of my predecessors spent an awful amount of money on the support system, Jin is keen for us to continue using it - again with emails you would have the privacy issue of it not being able to be monitored as easily and it will also be more difficult to determine you are through lack of IP (if IP was being used to prove who you are).

That's fair enough, I thought accounts which are banned couldn't use the support system. It seems to happen way to often that people create another account to ask why they were banned, so perhaps you could add more information about it to the FAQ's like Rosie said.

[Neversoft]

Your second account should not be banned until you have your main account back

There is so much misinformation on this forum. All five of my other accounts were banned when I was away and couldn't get on my main account, but from what you just said, they shouldn't have been at all. I explained clearly on my second account after my first was banned that I was using it because I couldn't get on my main account, but I was just told to use the support system and my second account was then banned immediately. I had to use a third account to even see that I had been told to use the support system as my second account was banned before I could even check the replies to my thread! My third, fourth and fifth accounts were then banned on sight. I managed one post on my fourth account before it was banned, but my fifth account was banned before I could even do a thing.

Personally I am not one to complain about such things these days, but that was a clear case of mistreatment and a nice little inconvenience on my side. It appears the rules on banning and situations where another account is permitted need to be a lot clearer, as you told me one thing last week and now you're telling me something different.

[Chris]

There is so much misinformation on this forum. All five of my other accounts were banned when I was away and couldn't get on my main account, but from what you just said, they shouldn't have been at all. I explained clearly on my second account after my first was banned that I was using it because I couldn't get on my main account, but I was just told to use the support system and my second account was then banned immediately. I had to use a third account to even see that I had been told to use the support system as my second account was banned before I could even check the replies to my thread! My third, fourth and fifth accounts were then banned on sight. I managed one post on my fourth account before it was banned, but my fifth account was banned before I could even do a thing.

Personally I am not one to complain about such things these days, but that was a clear case of mistreatment and a nice little inconvenience on my side. It appears the rules on banning and situations where another account is permitted need to be a lot clearer, as you told me one thing last week and now you're telling me something different.

You didn't completely loose access to your account though, you just couldn't access it from where you where so there wasn't any need to create a new account at all imo.

[Chippiewill]

I'm not exactly sure what happens when you're banned here. But on facepunch they have a nice system which you're moved into a usergroup which can only view the banned users forum where you can appeal bans or whatever. You could have a similar system here, it wouldn't necessarily need to have the appeal a ban bit, you can keep that on a separate system, but you could make sure that they can see information on how to appeal bans or similar stuff and would be able to ask for an admin to go look at the support system (Since time between Support System checked and support query sent is by reputation appalling.

[Hecktix]

There is so much misinformation on this forum. All five of my other accounts were banned when I was away and couldn't get on my main account, but from what you just said, they shouldn't have been at all. I explained clearly on my second account after my first was banned that I was using it because I couldn't get on my main account, but I was just told to use the support system and my second account was then banned immediately. I had to use a third account to even see that I had been told to use the support system as my second account was banned before I could even check the replies to my thread! My third, fourth and fifth accounts were then banned on sight. I managed one post on my fourth account before it was banned, but my fifth account was banned before I could even do a thing.

Personally I am not one to complain about such things these days, but that was a clear case of mistreatment and a nice little inconvenience on my side. It appears the rules on banning and situations where another account is permitted need to be a lot clearer, as you told me one thing last week and now you're telling me something different.

You may note I also posted that second accounts should be used for nothing else but getting your main account back unless approved by the forum manager. You continued to ignore requests to use the support system so yes, your multiple accounts were banned. In regards to "not even being able to read replies to the complaint" - see my post above too, we had not realised the complaints forum was not available to guests.

[Catzsy]

You didn't completely loose access to your account though, you just couldn't access it from where you where so there wasn't any need to create a new account at all imo.

He did actually lose access to his account because he couldn't remember the password as it was auto login. :P Oli seems to have remedied all this though with some quite clear instructions. There just seems to have been a misaprehension that guests could see the complaints section. The system Oli has now put in place is logical and makes perfect common sense i.e. it allows members to keep the temporary account until the main one is recovered or ask for permission to have a temporary second account if away and there are worries about security. Sorted as far as I can see. :P :D

[Neversoft]

You didn't completely loose access to your account though, you just couldn't access it from where you where so there wasn't any need to create a new account at all imo.

Actually I did. There was no way I could access the account until I got back home. And how else was I supposed to use the forum, then? :rolleyes: And don't tell me I just shouldn't have come on. House sitting can be rather boring, you know.


You may note I also posted that second accounts should be used for nothing else but getting your main account back unless approved by the forum manager. You continued to ignore requests to use the support system so yes, your multiple accounts were banned. In regards to "not even being able to read replies to the complaint" - see my post above too, we had not realised the complaints forum was not available to guests.

You may note I wasn't even aware I had been directed to the support system until my third account. After having been banned on such a vague reason (susipcious activity) then banned again before I could even check the replies to my thread, you could hardly expect someone not to ignore requests. And you say I was continuously banned because I didn't use the support system? But earlier you said (and I quote) "Your second account should not be banned until you have your main account back."

[Hecktix]

Actually I did. There was no way I could access the account until I got back home. And how else was I supposed to use the forum, then? :rolleyes: And don't tell me I just shouldn't have come on. House sitting can be rather boring, you know.



You may note I wasn't even aware I had been directed to the support system until my third account. After having been banned on such a vague reason (susipcious activity) then banned again before I could even check the replies to my thread, you could hardly expect someone not to ignore requests. And you say I was continuously banned because I didn't use the support system? But earlier you said (and I quote) "Your second account should not be banned until you have your main account back."

Again, you are failing to read my post properly:


My view on the matter of second accounts being created, a user posting a thread in complaints about their ban or whatever (if the ban is on non-rule breaking grounds or if they have forgotten their password) was always that once the complaint has been replied to the account can be banned as you've been directed to the correct place and therefore cannot continue the conversation in the incorrect place. Unfortunately what I did not realise was that the "complaints" forum is not available to guests so you wouldn't be able to see the reply. As far as I was aware (and at the time forum management were aware), guests could see the complaints forum therefore you would not need access to the account to see the reply. I later figured out that guests cannot see the complaints forum, therefore policy on this area was changed although second accounts should still only be used to get onto the support system to get the main account unless approved by Forum Management, whereas you tried to use your multiple accounts to post around the forum - this isn't allowed.

[GommeInc]

I also think it is quite rude when you create a new account (if you do) and ask why you have been banned or explain why you feel you should be unbanned and all they say is 'use the support form' so you have go to and type it out all again and they have to read it all again. I really don't see why a PM cannot suffice.
I've never understood that either. It's like they try mindless bureauracy for the sake of looking professional, when the personal approach is always better (and it worked really well in the past).

Also, a private forum could be useful and makes management more personable. I don't see why they can't scrap the Complaints forum (which is just a hybrid of the "Ask the Habbox Staff, Feedback and Questions & Queries Forum) and make use of the forums they already have. The Complaints forum is just there to be awkward, where loads of threads are literally just Queries :P Some are Feedback threads which involve Community Debate and the real complaints can be handled in the "Ask the Habbox Staff" or Support Forms :/