Apple WWDC Lion - iOS5 - iCloud.

[iBlueBox]

Apple WWDC event on now.

with:

OS Lion
iOS5
iCloud

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/06/wwdc-2011-liveblog-steve-jobs-talks-ios-5-os-x-lion-icloud-an

Thread temporarily closed by Recursion (Forum Moderator): Let's cool it down in here guys ;)

[AgnesIO]

Omg e3 or WWDC :S

[Jordy]

Obv WWDC, must admit Mac OS is beginning to tempt me, it seems to be getting more like iOS which I adore on iPods, iPhones and iPads. The simplicity, reliability, attractiveness of it and how it just works is really beginning to tempt me, I've no issues with Windows but other than price there's not much keeping me on it seeing as I don't game anymore.

Looking forward to hearing about iOS 5.

[flatface]

When is iOS 5 getting released?

[AgnesIO]

Obv WWDC, must admit Mac OS is beginning to tempt me, it seems to be getting more like iOS which I adore on iPods, iPhones and iPads. The simplicity, reliability, attractiveness of it and how it just works is really beginning to tempt me, I've no issues with Windows but other than price there's not much keeping me on it seeing as I don't game anymore.

Looking forward to hearing about iOS 5.

OSX looked nothing special imo.

More interested in iOS thought!

[Jack!]

E3 Is just far better, what's new to expect from Apple apart from more lock downs and stopping you from doing things with your own device and computer.

[Jordy]

E3 Is just far better, what's new to expect from Apple apart from more lock downs and stopping you from doing things with your own device and computer.At least it's not just prolonging the Halo series forever which they seem to be doing at every E3 and can't let go of it and some quite boring additions to Kinect. Announce a new console and I'd be interested.

[kk.]

E3 Is just far better, what's new to expect from Apple apart from more lock downs and stopping you from doing things with your own device and computer.

ive been following both and the microsoft e3 conference was craaaappppp

[AgnesIO]

E3 Is just far better, what's new to expect from Apple apart from more lock downs and stopping you from doing things with your own device and computer.

How about a BBM type service which means iPod, iPad and iPhone users will all be able to send each other messages? A superb feature (not new, but think how many people will use it!)

[Jack!]

How about a BBM type service which means iPod, iPad and iPhone users will all be able to send each other messages? A superb feature (not new, but think how many people will use it!)

So, copying others. how original.

[iLogan]

Really looking forward for iOS5!

[Jordy]

Apple seem to be making a real habit of complicating things as of recent. iCloud is coming across as very confusing, the photo storage in particular.

There's also now Game Center, FaceTime, iMessaging, Ping and MobileMe five different services all running of Apple IDs but you have to adds friends one by one to each individual service :/ - Why can't they just combine them?

Plus that Magazine/News app is basically the same as iBooks?

[AgnesIO]

Apple seem to be making a real habit of complicating things as of recent. iCloud is coming across as very confusing, the photo storage in particular.

There's also now Game Center, FaceTime, iMessaging, Ping and MobileMe five different services all running of Apple IDs but you have to adds friends one by one to each individual service :/ - Why can't they just combine them?

Plus that Magazine/News app is basically the same as iBooks?

MobileMe "is no more".

iMessaging looks very promising - with the huge amount of people already use iProducts it will obviously be popular - and many will buy an iProduct to talk to people without SMS costs - if it is worth it, I may consider getting an iPod Touch (or an iTouch as many imbeciles call it :P)

[HotelUser]

*Note I am going to ignore the jibes from Tom for saying this because he doesn't understand that I also praise Microsoft and the Windows 8 UI

It looks iMazing ;)

[AgnesIO]

So, copying others. how original.

With all due respect, I don't give a damn about your apparant hate over Apple. I am certainly not their biggest fan, but if there is something that is clearly hugely successful on blackberries (the worth smartphones I have ever come across, yet millions are sold - thanks to BBM) - why the hell would Apple not follow suit?

If you can find a company that doesn't 'copy' others one little bit, and doesn't get ideas of others I will buy you donor :rolleyes:

[dirrty]

all seems pretty promising. does anyone know if or when there'll be any announcements for the next iphone (if one is being released this year)?

[HotelUser]

So, copying others. how original.

Microsoft copies just as much as Apple does, also BBM is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen and if anyone says they bought a Blackberry for BBM I will be concerned. Check out KiK Messenger.

[AgnesIO]

all seems pretty promising. does anyone know if or when there'll be any announcements for the next iphone (if one is being released this year)?

September, I believe.

I think they are going to release it towards Christmas - due to the huge Christmas sales the iPad got.

That is what Engadget said when WWDC was announced - as it was originally expected to be announced at WWDC.

[Recursion]

I don't hate Apple as such, I like the iCloud service a lot to be honest, but 99% of the new features appear to have been ripped from various other Mobile operating systems. I also can't see iMessaging taking off with the likes of cross platform alternatives like LiveProfile and PingChat.

[Mr-Trainor]

More information:
http://www.apple.com/icloud/
http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/

Both coming this fall.

[AgnesIO]

Microsoft copies just as much as Apple does, also BBM is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen and if anyone says they bought a Blackberry for BBM I will be concerned. Check out KiK Messenger.

You better be very concerned - over at this side of the pond - not sure what it is like for you - BBm is the best thing EVAAAAA


I don't hate Apple as such, I like the iCloud service a lot to be honest, but 99% of the new features appear to have been ripped from various other Mobile operating systems. I also can't see iMessaging taking off with the likes of cross platform alternatives like LiveProfile and PingChat.

It will take off.

[HotelUser]

You better be very concerned - over at this side of the pond - not sure what it is like for you - BBm is the best thing EVAAAAA



It will take off.

Or you could get a smartphone instead on the same monthly fee with a real browser, real applications and KiK messenger which is the same as BBM only cross platform therefore better.

[AgnesIO]

Or you could get a smartphone instead on the same monthly fee with a real browser, real applications and KiK messenger which is the same as BBM only cross platform therefore better.

I have tried telling people this. But I get told I know nothing about technology, and should get a Blackberry.

Also, KiK maybe a better alternative - but only if people you know actually use it. Around me it is 'BBM BBM BBM BBM'

Pingchat is also a flop around where I am nowadays.

[Mr-Trainor]

A lot of people I know have BBs and they admit they only bought it for BBM and wouldn't nessecarily like the phone without out.

[Jordy]

There's a lot of point to buying a phone for BBM. There's no point using an IM which no one else uses and let's face it David you're no trend-setter.

Bit of a buzz kill that these won't be released for ages, may as well of announced it along with hopefully the iPhone 5 in September.

[HotelUser]

There's a lot of point to buying a phone for BBM. There's no point using an IM which no one else uses and let's face it David you're no trend-setter.

Bit of a buzz kill that these won't be released for ages, may as well of announced it along with hopefully the iPhone 5 in September.

No there is no point in buying it for BBM because you're paying smartphone rates for a piece of plastic with no browser and no apps. I don't have to be a trend setter nor am I trying to be. Do you not know what KiK messenger is Jord?

Also after reading this http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/06/apples-ios-5-all-the-details/ I will not be purchasing another Android phone once my contract is up. Needless to say I wont be purchasing a Crapberry either :P

[AgnesIO]

No there is no point in buying it for BBM because you're paying smartphone rates for a piece of plastic with no browser and no apps. I don't have to be a trend setter nor am I trying to be. Do you not know what KiK messenger is Jord?

Also after reading this http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/06/apples-ios-5-all-the-details/ I will not be purchasing another Android phone once my contract is up. Needless to say I wont be purchasing a Crapberry either :P

An iPhone with a hard keyboard = dreamy

[iBlueBox]

I think iMessaging will be pretty neat to the fact,

I like the new iOS 5 with the features espically the new notifications system.

Mac OS Lion It look's good. But I think it need's something else, something more.

I like the iCloud and the way it works, about having all your music on all devices, the fact its free is great.

Though can some one explain this $25 iTunes Match thing?

[AgnesIO]

I think iMessaging will be pretty neat to the fact,

I like the new iOS 5 with the features espically the new notifications system.

Mac OS Lion It look's good. But I think it need's something else, something more.

I like the iCloud and the way it works, about having all your music on all devices, the fact its free is great.

Though can some one explain this $25 iTunes Match thing?

I think it means if you don't buy your songs through the iTunes store you have to pay 25$ a year to have it stored in the cloud or something :rolleyes:

[RyRy]

I like it all, I probably will get the iTunes Match thing but then again I get everything off Spotify so I DUNNO we'll see how that pans out really. I'm content with what I have... but yeah omg iOS 5 looks gorgeous I may actually forfeit my jailbreak for that. iMessage looks awesome, albeit a Blackberry Messenger copy but hey it's Apple, they're only going to do it better than RIM did. Same with notifications, only gonna do it better than Android did. They're ******* experts when it comes to userf-friendly software, and even better with hardware. I am proper excited.

Btw I'm expecting Mac OSX to feature iMessage in the next iOS update, it will deffo be there because it's a bloody good feature to tackle the likes of AIM & MSN. So funny looking at the Engadget comments and all the BB fanboys realising they've wasted their money on a terrible product which I hear regularly clears your contact list. Not that you'll have many people who want to talk to you if you own a Blackberry lol.

[HotelUser]

I like it all, I probably will get the iTunes Match thing but then again I get everything off Spotify so I DUNNO we'll see how that pans out really. I'm content with what I have... but yeah omg iOS 5 looks gorgeous I may actually forfeit my jailbreak for that. iMessage looks awesome, albeit a Blackberry Messenger copy but hey it's Apple, they're only going to do it better than RIM did. Same with notifications, only gonna do it better than Android did. They're ******* experts when it comes to userf-friendly software, and even better with hardware. I am proper excited.

Btw I'm expecting Mac OSX to feature iMessage in the next iOS update, it will deffo be there because it's a bloody good feature to tackle the likes of AIM & MSN. So funny looking at the Engadget comments and all the BB fanboys realising they've wasted their money on a terrible product which I hear regularly clears your contact list. Not that you'll have many people who want to talk to you if you own a Blackberry lol.


Agreed with giving up Jailbreak for the updates, and about iMessanger for OS X.

You have hit it all right on the money Ryan :)


I think it means if you don't buy your songs through the iTunes store you have to pay 25$ a year to have it stored in the cloud or something :rolleyes:

Personally I think the iTunes updates are silly, but I use GrooveShark for music which is streaming and more inexpensive to the iTunes store. I'm very happy for the notification management, split keyboard, wireless sync, and iMessaging on iOS. I am also extremely happy for application resume on the new version of OS X.

I will be upgrading to an iPhone 5 as soon as it's out in Canada and my contract has expired (October) and I will either get an iPad 2 or choose to wait for a Windows 8 tablet around this coming Christmas.

[Jack!]

I don't hate apple, I have an IPod, which I would be lost without.

But the fact is, Apple you seem to pay for the brand more then anything, take a Macbook for example, you could make an amazing spec windows machine, for half the price.

[iBlueBox]

I don't hate apple, I have an IPod, which I would be lost without.

But the fact is, Apple you seem to pay for the brand more then anything, take a Macbook for example, you could make an amazing spec windows machine, for half the price.

By meaning buying for the brand, do you mean because it's just made by Apple?

I mean I like Apple, but i like other brands.
I buy my devices if i need them and If they would help my life a little bit easier and the features are neat.

[AgnesIO]

I don't hate apple, I have an IPod, which I would be lost without.

But the fact is, Apple you seem to pay for the brand more then anything, take a Macbook for example, you could make an amazing spec windows machine, for half the price.

Loads of companies are like this. However, I had said this before - yeah you pay for the Apple logo on the back, but that is SUPERB Marketing - there have done seriously well making that brand - they are the luxury line of gadgets.

By meaning buying for the brand, do you mean because it's just made by Apple?

I mean I like Apple, but i like other brands.
I buy my devices if i need them and If they would help my life a little bit easier and the features are neat.

What do you get out of your iMac, that a Windows machine couldn't give? :P

[iBlueBox]

Loads of companies are like this. However, I had said this before - yeah you pay for the Apple logo on the back, but that is SUPERB Marketing - there have done seriously well making that brand - they are the luxury line of gadgets.


What do you get out of your iMac, that a Windows machine couldn't give? :P


Compared to my old PC about two years ago.
Faster experience on general use.
A Virus.
iMovie I found to be more creative then Windows movie maker.
Simplicity,
All in one, meaning no tower at the side.
Multi Gestures on my mouse.
Reliability as in, when I switched it on, my internet wouldn't be disconnected ect.

I found the way I use my Mac a lot easier then to my old PC. My iOS devices work better, and now seamlessly together.

Yet, I still use PC's all the time for school, and I wouldn't mind moving back to a Window's machine, but at the moment I'm okay with my Mac.

[AgnesIO]

Compared to my old PC about two years ago.
Faster experience on general use.
A Virus.
iMovie I found to be more creative then Windows movie maker.
Simplicity,
All in one, meaning no tower at the side.
Multi Gestures on my mouse.
Reliability as in, when I switched it on, my internet wouldn't be disconnected ect.

I found the way I use my Mac a lot easier then to my old PC. My iOS devices work better, and now seamlessly together.

Yet, I still use PC's all the time for school, and I wouldn't mind moving back to a Window's machine, but at the moment I'm okay with my Mac.

Can't debate that having not used Macs for long periods of time
Macs can get viruses - and if they become more used they will get tons of them too
iMovie costs, WMM is free.
Simplicity? Windows 7 is hardly complicated
Loads of all in one windows PCs now
Again - not specific to macs now
Erm? My internet is not disconnected on a windows PC? I heard it was called broadband.

---

Don't get me wrong, if you prefer a Windows machine, fine. If you prefer a mac, fine. However those reasons could be argued on BOTH machines :P

[iBlueBox]

Can't debate that having not used Macs for long periods of time
Macs can get viruses - and if they become more used they will get tons of them too
iMovie costs, WMM is free.
Simplicity? Windows 7 is hardly complicated
Loads of all in one windows PCs now
Again - not specific to macs now
Erm? My internet is not disconnected on a windows PC? I heard it was called broadband.

---

Don't get me wrong, if you prefer a Windows machine, fine. If you prefer a mac, fine. However those reasons could be argued on BOTH machines :P

I know they can be argued about both machines,

I know Macs can get viruses, Compared to my old PC though I haven't got one so far after 2 years of a Mac.
iMovie was already installed when I got my Mac off Apple,
My old PC had windows xp, I find my Mac's interface nicer with the task bar,
I know about PC's you can get all in one, but my Mac was the first all in one I used.
Not specific to Mac's now but the way its used with the interface like my trackpad, I like.
My broadband set up on my PC was confusing, where my Mac, it was just click, done.

I think it really depends on the user, and what they want and how they use there machines when it comes down to it to be honest.

[AgnesIO]

I know they can be argued about both machines,

I know Macs can get viruses, Compared to my old PC though I haven't got one so far after 2 years of a Mac.
iMovie was already installed when I got my Mac off Apple,
My old PC had windows xp, I find my Mac's interface nicer with the task bar,
I know about PC's you can get all in one, but my Mac was the first all in one I used.
Not specific to Mac's now but the way its used with the interface like my trackpad, I like.
My broadband set up on my PC was confusing, where my Mac, it was just click, done.

I think it really depends on the user, and what they want and how they use there machines when it comes down to it to be honest.

It isn't the computer that is the problem, it is the user.
Was it worth the extra few hundred quid you paid for a Mac over Windows?
XP vs a modern Mac OS is an unfair comparison.
Sounds like your broadband was set up wrong. I don't need to click a single button to have a connection?

[GommeInc]

MobileMe "is no more".

iMessaging looks very promising - with the huge amount of people already use iProducts it will obviously be popular - and many will buy an iProduct to talk to people without SMS costs - if it is worth it, I may consider getting an iPod Touch (or an iTouch as many imbeciles call it :P)
It's a good idea, but if anyone had sense they would make that idea appear too late. The way forward is getting messaging apps that reach all platforms. If you and your friends only have iProducts then it's fine, but in the end the only useful Apps are ones that benefit all platforms.

Also, is it true Apple are hating on Facebook with deeper Twitter integration? I read that somewhere and laughed :P

EDIT: The Mac vs. PC debate is dead and boring. The Mac excuse of "Yeah I know Macs can get viruses but I got more on a PC" translates as "I click too many things and do not know how to use a computer". It's a user error, not a computer error :P

"PEBKAC ("Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair"), PICNIC ("Problem In Chair Not In Computer") and PIBCAK ("Problem Is Between Chair And Keyboard"

[Recursion]

I know they can be argued about both machines,

I know Macs can get viruses, Compared to my old PC though I haven't got one so far after 2 years of a Mac.
iMovie was already installed when I got my Mac off Apple,
My old PC had windows xp, I find my Mac's interface nicer with the task bar,
I know about PC's you can get all in one, but my Mac was the first all in one I used.
Not specific to Mac's now but the way its used with the interface like my trackpad, I like.
My broadband set up on my PC was confusing, where my Mac, it was just click, done.

I think it really depends on the user, and what they want and how they use there machines when it comes down to it to be honest.

Sorry, but it's your fault if you're comparing a 10 year old OS to one that was released a few years ago, and broadband is plug and play if there's DHCP server on your network (i.e. your router).

I won't be buying another Mac, 1 month after buying my iPad it broke, had to take it into the Apple store, granted they replaced it, but still. And now, exactly 2 years after purchase and 1 year out of warranty my MacBook is dead and Apple want £450 to fix it, stuff that, I'll go buy another laptop thanks. The quality of Apple products, in my eyes, is ****.

Also, my dad isn't a total 1337 h4xx0r or anything but within a week he had Windows 7 installed on his iMac, he was totally unimpressed by OS X for simple things like windows don't maximise to the screen, Preview is crap compared to Windows Picture Viewer etc, it's just the small things but they eventually led him to move back to his old OS.

[StefanWolves]

I like all the new features mentioned, gonna install iOS5 beta 1 in a bit! :)

[AgnesIO]

It's a good idea, but if anyone had sense they would make that idea appear too late. The way forward is getting messaging apps that reach all platforms. If you and your friends only have iProducts then it's fine, but in the end the only useful Apps are ones that benefit all platforms.

Also, is it true Apple are hating on Facebook with deeper Twitter integration? I read that somewhere and laughed :P

EDIT: The Mac vs. PC debate is dead and boring. The Mac excuse of "Yeah I know Macs can get viruses but I got more on a PC" translates as "I click too many things and do not know how to use a computer". It's a user error, not a computer error :P

"PEBKAC ("Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair"), PICNIC ("Problem In Chair Not In Computer") and PIBCAK ("Problem Is Between Chair And Keyboard"

The difference is, this is Apple! They were boasting about going full screen with apps etc - because that is a new feature lol

[Recursion]

Interesting read.

http://www.neowin.net/news/ios-5-not-magical-or-revolutionary?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[GommeInc]

The difference is, this is Apple! They were boasting about going full screen with apps etc - because that is a new feature lol
I got an email from Apple today (it escaped the spam filter) saying how "the best OS has now got better". Their advertising policy is as crap as ever, OSX Lion isn't bringing anything intuitive to the OS market. Full screen programs/apps have been on the two other main operating systems since time immemorial, if anything it's Apple just admitting they're behind again :/

[AgnesIO]

Interesting read.

http://www.neowin.net/news/ios-5-not-magical-or-revolutionary?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Interesting read, but just sounds like a moan - some of which is just a pathetic grudge against Apple.

[GommeInc]

Interesting read, but just sounds like a moan - some of which is just a pathetic grudge against Apple.
It was a bit of a moan, but it's one of only a few articles circulating at the moment which underlines what's "new" (and I use that word loosely) to the OS. OSX Lion is just an update on OSX, not a release of a new way of computing - this is fine. It's just Apple are doing what they do best with poor advertising tactics by making it seem amazing, when anyone with enough brain cells to understand rational thought would know that it's isn't.

"OS X Lion. The world’s most advanced desktop operating system advances even further."

[AgnesIO]

It was a bit of a moan, but it's one of only a few articles circulating at the moment which underlines what's "new" (and I use that word loosely) to the OS. OSX Lion is just an update on OSX, not a release of a new way of computing - this is fine. It's just Apple are doing what they do best with poor advertising tactics by making it seem amazing, when anyone with enough brain cells to understand rational thought would know that it's isn't.

"OS X Lion. The world’s most advanced desktop operating system advances even further."

I am not sure "poor advertising" is exactly the right way to put it.

[GommeInc]

I am not sure "poor advertising" is exactly the right way to put it.
It is, there's a strong whiff of irony. It's not "the most advanced" OS and saying it is advancing further contradicts the previous claim, but I assume this is an American product slogan so the grammar and english issues will naturally be laughed at in the UK and Europe like their Mac vs. PC campaigns. Then you get the fact that it clearly isn't advanced when nothing new is coming to the table. They're preaching to the converted, they're not going to win over people who like the competition :P

[AgnesIO]

It is, there's a strong whiff of irony. It's not "the most advanced" OS and saying it is advancing further contradicts the previous claim, but I assume this is an American product slogan so the grammar and english issues will naturally be laughed at in the UK and Europe like their Mac vs. PC campaigns. Then you get the fact that it clearly isn't advanced when nothing new is coming to the table. They're preaching to the converted, they're not going to win over people who like the competition :P

They don't care about the non converted for this though - the only people who can make use of it are already Mac users.. the thing is, the fact they are bending the truth dramatically does not make it bad advertising. I bet they will make millions of dollars off OSX Lion - and I bet when I next talk to a mate about it I will get told OSX LION IS THE MOST ADVANCED OS - as whether you and I like it or not, people do believe it.

Apple have done tremendously well, since if you look at all their product advertisements, none of the products are really quite as advanced or revolutionary as Apple say, but you can bet your life the majority will think they are - because of the advertisements.

[GommeInc]

They don't care about the non converted for this though - the only people who can make use of it are already Mac users.. the thing is, the fact they are bending the truth dramatically does not make it bad advertising. I bet they will make millions of dollars off OSX Lion - and I bet when I next talk to a mate about it I will get told OSX LION IS THE MOST ADVANCED OS - as whether you and I like it or not, people do believe it.

Apple have done tremendously well, since if you look at all their product advertisements, none of the products are really quite as advanced or revolutionary as Apple say, but you can bet your life the majority will think they are - because of the advertisements.
They should do, it's the very nature of an organisation like Apple. If they're selling bread to bakers then it is poor advertising :P It'll only be successful to the people who shockingly believe it to be advance - the blind followers, the sheep.

And I'd be worried if the majority think this :P

[AgnesIO]

They should do, it's the very nature of an organisation like Apple. If they're selling bread to bakers then it is poor advertising :P It'll only be successful to the people who shockingly believe it to be advance - the blind followers, the sheep.

EG. The only ones who Apple need to worry about for this release. Those who actually own Apple hardware.

They don't care that those of us who actually kind of understand OS's know their stuff is crap lol

[GommeInc]

EG. The only ones who Apple need to worry about for this release. Those who actually own Apple hardware.

They don't care that those of us who actually kind of understand OS's know their stuff is crap lol
They do need to worry about the competition and new customers. I imagine the OS will be released on Macs as standard? Or have I missed out on what Apple do with their OS? :P

[AgnesIO]

They do need to worry about the competition and new customers. I imagine the OS will be released on Macs as standard? Or have I missed out on what Apple do with their OS? :P

Well yeah, but they didn't need these updates to sell the Mac - macs are more brand based when bought for house holds imo

But all the current Mac owners will buy it for £/€30

[StefanWolves]

Its funny watching people on this forum criticise Apples marketing... Yea, right, because you lot know better than the Marketing experts who are paid £millions per year employed by Apple

[Recursion]

Its funny watching people on this forum criticise Apples marketing... Yea, right, because you lot know better than the Marketing experts who are paid £millions per year employed by Apple

No, what they're portraying is a very arrogant image that they do not deserve.

[StefanWolves]

Yea but really who are we on this little forum to criticise Apple when theyre on of the leading companies in the world?

[AgnesIO]

Yea but really who are we on this little forum to criticise Apple when theyre on of the leading companies in the world?

What I have been trying to say..

How can people say they are bad at advertising etc, when they are valued at billions and billions of dollars, and have what I imagine is one of the biggest brands in the entire world..

[Jordy]

Just because they're a successful firm (Especially in terms of marketing) it doesn't mean they're immune to criticism and seeing as they're so nifty at extorting money out of people, they sure as hell aren't going to be liked for it.

[AgnesIO]

Just because they're a successful firm (Especially in terms of marketing) it doesn't mean they're immune to criticism and seeing as they're so nifty at extorting money out of people, they sure as hell aren't going to be liked for it.

Criticism yes - but their marketing skills can't really be criticised for being poor lol And I am aware of my username :D

[GommeInc]

Yea but really who are we on this little forum to criticise Apple when theyre on of the leading companies in the world?
Quite easily really. Heck, anyone can criticise any company on any aspect. Pizza Hut the other day was lousy but according to your logic I have no right to criticise their service as I am not a Manager at Pizza Hut nor a chef.

Apples advertising technique is lousy if you put any depth of thought on their advertising process - as Recursion said, they have no ground to use the "most advanced operating system" in their advertising campaign, they're possibly the only organisation that I can think of that make these bold claims based on opinion, which is another area your claim fails to meet as their campaign IS based on false "public" opinion. Other organisations, like Microsoft for example, actually advertise their products e.g. the Windows 7 advertising campaigns and marketing. Apple just preach flawed logic and irritating bias, who anyone with more brain cells than it takes to grunt can take to pieces and analyse. Is it the most advanced OS? The fact they're advertising features that have existed for decades suggests "No".

Calling it "the most advanced OS is becoming more advanced" is like saying "Mac OSX, a 10 year old, arrogant child born to pushy, snobbish parents who self-proclaim his brilliance have stated he is becoming more brilliant" when Windows and Linux, both fully grown and developed individuals, are happy sipping tea at the adults table laughing at them.

In short, their advertising campaign is only clever if you're easily drawn in by false claims. Their advertising campaigns are nothing more than a religious fanatic preaching to the easily converted. Their advertisements are about as useful as the song "I've got soul but I'm not a soldier" which on first glance is a good song, but then you realise it's nothing but a pile of babble. "I've got ham but I'm not a hamster :dance:"

[HotelUser]

Sorry, but it's your fault if you're comparing a 10 year old OS to one that was released a few years ago, and broadband is plug and play if there's DHCP server on your network (i.e. your router).

I won't be buying another Mac, 1 month after buying my iPad it broke, had to take it into the Apple store, granted they replaced it, but still. And now, exactly 2 years after purchase and 1 year out of warranty my MacBook is dead and Apple want £450 to fix it, stuff that, I'll go buy another laptop thanks. The quality of Apple products, in my eyes, is ****.

Also, my dad isn't a total 1337 h4xx0r or anything but within a week he had Windows 7 installed on his iMac, he was totally unimpressed by OS X for simple things like windows don't maximise to the screen, Preview is crap compared to Windows Picture Viewer etc, it's just the small things but they eventually led him to move back to his old OS.

You had bad luck with hardware which could have happened with any manufacture so you're giving up. I've had 2 Acers break so I'm not going to buy any more Acer machines ever again..

On what your dad said about OS X, fair doos if he wanted something he was more comfortable with but I am the opposite. I use OS X over Windows. Honest to god I go on my brother's, sister's, mother's or my Windows laptops and I get the old not responding Windows frequently but the last time that has happened on OS X was so long ago I cannot remember. I kid you not my mother has owned five Windows laptops in the past two years and she complains about the exact same thing, that it's slow (so she keeps buying new ones and we keep telling her it's not the computers themselves she has a problem with it's Windows). My brother's just maxed out the RAM in his Windows laptop complaining that Windows is, "slow as hell," as he has said. I installed Windows on Pentium 4 3Ghz hyper threaded box with 2GB of RAM and I have more issues with that than you can imagine so I'll be putting Ubuntu on it. You've brought up how Windows Picture Viewer is better (really? WPV? I swear OS X has the space bar instant preview and in the viewer itself you can even rotate the image and export it as any image type as you want, it can do more than the Windows one, infact). I could go on all day about my own opinion why OS X is a million times better than Windows such as mentioning application management, better hardware synergy, etc, but it's like playing one sporting team against another and it's just an opinion. I do find it funny that your dad has recently gone back to Windows whilst my mom is now pulling her hair out over it though :P


Quite easily really. Heck, anyone can criticise any company on any aspect. Pizza Hut the other day was lousy but according to your logic I have no right to criticise their service as I am not a Manager at Pizza Hut nor a chef.

Apples advertising technique is lousy if you put any depth of thought on their advertising process - as Recursion said, they have no ground to use the "most advanced operating system" in their advertising campaign, they're possibly the only organisation that I can think of that make these bold claims based on opinion, which is another area your claim fails to meet as their campaign IS based on false "public" opinion. Other organisations, like Microsoft for example, actually advertise their products e.g. the Windows 7 advertising campaigns and marketing. Apple just preach flawed logic and irritating bias, who anyone with more brain cells than it takes to grunt can take to pieces and analyse. Is it the most advanced OS? The fact they're advertising features that have existed for decades suggests "No".

Calling it "the most advanced OS is becoming more advanced" is like saying "Mac OSX, a 10 year old, arrogant child born to pushy, snobbish parents who self-proclaim his brilliance have stated he is becoming more brilliant" when Windows and Linux, both fully grown and developed individuals, are happy sipping tea at the adults table laughing at them.

In short, their advertising campaign is only clever if you're easily drawn in by false claims. Their advertising campaigns are nothing more than a religious fanatic preaching to the easily converted. Their advertisements are about as useful as the song "I've got soul but I'm not a soldier" which on first glance is a good song, but then you realise it's nothing but a pile of babble. "I've got ham but I'm not a hamster :dance:"

Apple's advertising is not lousy, they're a multinational corporation whom had more revenue than Microsoft last year, so I'd say their advertising is pretty successful. Gomme, I know you are likely the most self admitting Anti-Apple user around but that doesn't mean you can't say the company isn't good at anything. I despise RIM and all their horrifically terrible Crapberry sudo smartphones which cannot comprehend a decent browser let alone what an app store is but they have good advertising. Of course Apple are going to say their OS are their best in advertising. Does Microsoft not claim Windows Phone is the best, that Windows is the best? Does Ford and Toyota not claim their vehicles are the best? It is standard procedure for all companies and corporations to endorse their products as best.

[GommeInc]

You had bad luck with hardware which could have happened with any manufacture so you're giving up. I've had 2 Acers break so I'm not going to buy any more Acer machines ever again..

On what your dad said about OS X, fair doos if he wanted something he was more comfortable with but I am the opposite. I use OS X over Windows. Honest to god I go on my brother's, sister's, mother's or my Windows laptops and I get the old not responding Windows frequently but the last time that has happened on OS X was so long ago I cannot remember. I kid you not my mother has owned five Windows laptops in the past two years and she complains about the exact same thing, that it's slow (so she keeps buying new ones and we keep telling her it's not the computers themselves she has a problem with it's Windows). My brother's just maxed out the RAM in his Windows laptop complaining that Windows is, "slow as hell," as he has said. I installed Windows on Pentium 4 3Ghz hyper threaded box with 2GB of RAM and I have more issues with that than you can imagine so I'll be putting Ubuntu on it. You've brought up how Windows Picture Viewer is better (really? WPV? I swear OS X has the space bar instant preview and in the viewer itself you can even rotate the image and export it as any image type as you want, it can do more than the Windows one, infact). I could go on all day about my own opinion why OS X is a million times better than Windows such as mentioning application management, better hardware synergy, etc, but it's like playing one sporting team against another and it's just an opinion. I do find it funny that your dad has recently gone back to Windows whilst my mom is now pulling her hair out over it though :P



Apple's advertising is not lousy, they're a multinational corporation whom had more revenue than Microsoft last year, so I'd say their advertising is pretty successful. Gomme, I know you are likely the most self admitting Anti-Apple user around but that doesn't mean you can't say the company isn't good at anything. I despise RIM and all their horrifically terrible Crapberry sudo smartphones which cannot comprehend a decent browser let alone what an app store is but they have good advertising. Of course Apple are going to say their OS are their best in advertising. Does Microsoft not claim Windows Phone is the best, that Windows is the best? Does Ford and Toyota not claim their vehicles are the best? It is standard procedure for all companies and corporations to endorse their products as best.
It is lousy :P Read my post, not judge the book by its cover. Also, Ford, Toyota, Microsoft do not claim their products are the best, and when they do they given reasons why.

Ford do not even advertise "they are the best," they advertise why they are different with their "Ford Standard" - a good marketing ploy as they tell you what their cars come with "as standard". Toyota do not appear to be making such claims, they're happy advertising their hybrid car range with facts and information. Microsofts Windows Phone 7 campaigns seem to actually be advertising the phone OS while Apple just make a claim and go no where with it. Huge difference :rolleyes:

[HotelUser]

It is lousy :P Read my post, not judge the book by its cover. Also, Ford, Toyota, Microsoft do not claim their products are the best, and when they do they given reasons why.

Ford do not even advertise "they are the best," they advertise why they are different with their "Ford Standard" - a good marketing ploy as they tell you what their cars come with "as standard". Toyota do not appear to be making such claims, they're happy advertising their hybrid car range with facts and information. Microsofts Windows Phone 7 campaigns seem to actually be advertising the phone OS while Apple just make a claim and go no where with it. Huge difference :rolleyes:

Don't Ford to the whole built Ford tough thing? Then they all do say, "the most fuel efficient car/truck of <insert year here>," when it's all based off their own statistics.

The Windows Phone ads are the ones with people at parties who use their phone then a voice comes in and says how simple using WP is and how you can focus more on the party than your phone. If you inserted an iPhone in lieu of a WP and changed when they say WP to iPhone it would work just as well for Apple - it's very generic. Not saying Apple's ads are beauties either but I think it's extremely nit picky to say Microsoft ads are better than Apple ads. Except for the Mac vs PC ads both companies are annoying and suck.

[Recursion]

What I have been trying to say..

How can people say they are bad at advertising etc, when they are valued at billions and billions of dollars, and have what I imagine is one of the biggest brands in the entire world..

Don't forget, they're valued at this because of their mobile devices, their Mac line actually has very little income for Apple, which is actually what the thread was targeting (OS X).

Also David, your fault for buying Acer, they're ****, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole! ;) I also think it's unfair of you to compare Microsoft to Apple, Microsoft is a software company, Apple is a mobile devices company.

[GommeInc]

Don't Ford to the whole built Ford tough thing? Then they all do say, "the most fuel efficient car/truck of <insert year here>," when it's all based off their own statistics.
Not in the UK where false advertising laws come in :P They can only use that line when they've actually won an award e.g. Ford Fiesta, Car of the Year 2009. This may be reverting back to our original arguments where Apple got their advertisements pulled from television and posters because of their false claims and lack of product to advertise :P


The Windows Phone ads are the ones with people at parties who use their phone then a voice comes in and says how simple using WP is and how you can focus more on the party than your phone. If you inserted an iPhone in lieu of a WP and changed when they say WP to iPhone it would work just as well for Apple - it's very generic. Not saying Apple's ads are beauties either but I think it's extremely nit picky to say Microsoft ads are better than Apple ads. Except for the Mac vs PC ads both companies are annoying and suck.
I've not seen Apple advertise a product in years that actually advertise a product other than the iPhone which has pretty decent adverts. Mac OSX is never advertised, they make up a dodgy slogan "Best OS" but never say why, it's lousy advertising as they do not appear to know what to say :P Microsoft/Windows adverts are a billion times better as they're advertising their product and not making dodgy claims, but I guess in the UK we have to be given the facts and decent adverts otherwise we end up taking the pee out of them (the Mac vs. PC ads were laughed at here, people much preferred PC).

[HotelUser]

Not in the UK where false advertising laws come in :P They can only use that line when they've actually won an award e.g. Ford Fiesta, Car of the Year 2009. This may be reverting back to our original arguments where Apple got their advertisements pulled from television and posters because of their false claims and lack of product to advertise :P


I've not seen Apple advertise a product in years that actually advertise a product other than the iPhone which has pretty decent adverts. Mac OSX is never advertised, they make up a dodgy slogan "Best OS" but never say why, it's lousy advertising as they do not appear to know what to say :P Microsoft/Windows adverts are a billion times better as they're advertising their product and not making dodgy claims, but I guess in the UK we have to be given the facts and decent adverts otherwise we end up taking the pee out of them (the Mac vs. PC ads were laughed at here, people much preferred PC).

I've not seen any OS X ads usually they're ones that advertise the Mac but I haven't even seen many of these lately, mostly ipad and iPhone ads. Moreover Microsoft make the ads with lame music and girls going into BestBuy buying random laptops and praising them because they're pink. Like every other ad on TV they're lame and annoying and I don't want to watch them :P


Don't forget, they're valued at this because of their mobile devices, their Mac line actually has very little income for Apple, which is actually what the thread was targeting (OS X).

Also David, your fault for buying Acer, they're ****, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole! ;) I also think it's unfair of you to compare Microsoft to Apple, Microsoft is a software company, Apple is a mobile devices company.

Apple is a software and hardware company and Microsoft is a software and sometimes hardware company.

[Recursion]

I've not seen any OS X ads usually they're ones that advertise the Mac but I haven't even seen many of these lately, mostly ipad and iPhone ads. Moreover Microsoft make the ads with lame music and girls going into BestBuy buying random laptops and praising them because they're pink. Like every other ad on TV they're lame and annoying and I don't want to watch them :P

Apple is a software and hardware company and Microsoft is a software and sometimes hardware company.

So my point still stands, you cannot compare the two.

[StefanWolves]

if you're such an expert how come you're not working for a multi-billion pound company earning a million £ + per year salary?
Quite easily really. Heck, anyone can criticise any company on any aspect. Pizza Hut the other day was lousy but according to your logic I have no right to criticise their service as I am not a Manager at Pizza Hut nor a chef.

Apples advertising technique is lousy if you put any depth of thought on their advertising process - as Recursion said, they have no ground to use the "most advanced operating system" in their advertising campaign, they're possibly the only organisation that I can think of that make these bold claims based on opinion, which is another area your claim fails to meet as their campaign IS based on false "public" opinion. Other organisations, like Microsoft for example, actually advertise their products e.g. the Windows 7 advertising campaigns and marketing. Apple just preach flawed logic and irritating bias, who anyone with more brain cells than it takes to grunt can take to pieces and analyse. Is it the most advanced OS? The fact they're advertising features that have existed for decades suggests "No".

Calling it "the most advanced OS is becoming more advanced" is like saying "Mac OSX, a 10 year old, arrogant child born to pushy, snobbish parents who self-proclaim his brilliance have stated he is becoming more brilliant" when Windows and Linux, both fully grown and developed individuals, are happy sipping tea at the adults table laughing at them.

In short, their advertising campaign is only clever if you're easily drawn in by false claims. Their advertising campaigns are nothing more than a religious fanatic preaching to the easily converted. Their advertisements are about as useful as the song "I've got soul but I'm not a soldier" which on first glance is a good song, but then you realise it's nothing but a pile of babble. "I've got ham but I'm not a hamster :dance:"

[Recursion]

if you're such an expert how come you're not working for a multi-billion pound company earning a million £ + per year salary?

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, you're saying people aren't allowed an opinion? I honestly couldn't give a toss what you think, but I in fact agree with Gomme, whether he's working for a billion dollar company or not, because, funnily enough, I have an opinion.

[StefanWolves]

Wow why take things so personal?!

[Trinity]

Wow why take things so personal?!

...Because you made things personal. Everyone was fine discussing Apple, then you started saying the members of this forum don't deserve opinions, that's making it personal.
Although, you're not a hardcore professional multimillionaire forum poster, so I'll disregard all of your posts.

[StefanWolves]

What the ****? where have I said people don't deserve opinions? I think you have the wrong person, I think I deserve an apology.

EDIT - Stop trying to say I've said things that I haven't, please

[Recursion]

Because I'm expressing and opinion LOL

I haven't said anything you haven't, you were effectively saying no one is entitled to an opinion because they don't work for the company, that's like saying people aren't allowed to criticise the England football team because they aren't the manager of the club.

[StefanWolves]

Lol I don't get why that other kids raged at me... I think he must have mis-read something

---------- Post added 09-06-2011 at 06:13 PM ----------

Please don't put words into my mouth, I have not said you don't deserve an opinion. My post didn't even mean that, you're obviously reading to much into things :/

[AgnesIO]

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, you're saying people aren't allowed an opinion? I honestly couldn't give a toss what you think, but I in fact agree with Gomme, whether he's working for a billion dollar company or not, because, funnily enough, I have an opinion.

It may be an opinion, but it is so ridiculously anti-Apple it is untrue.

[StefanWolves]

marketing your about to get slaughtered and accused, wrongly, that you're saying people don't deserve opinions... any second now

[HotelUser]

So my point still stands, you cannot compare the two.

If a company screws up software you can complain about it. Saying you can't is pure stupidity. If you moan at me when I say something anti Microsoft of pro Mac in a Microsoft thread you are now a hypocrite.

[Recursion]

If a company screws up software you can complain about it. Saying you can't is pure stupidity.

Explain how Microsoft have screwed up their software? Seems to me like it's kicking ass, you know, considering it has 80%+ of the market share and all.

[HotelUser]

Explain how Microsoft have screwed up their software? Seems to me like it's kicking ass, you know, considering it has 80%+ of the market share and all.

You assume I am talking about Microsoft. You said you can complain about a company when its hardware fails. I am saying you can also complain when their software fails you too.

[Recursion]

You assume I am talking about Microsoft. You said you can complain about a company when its hardware fails. I am saying you can also complain when their software fails you too.

... so when has their software failed? You dodged my question.

EDIT: Can we keep this up? I'll be hitting my 20k post soon! :P

[HotelUser]

... so when has their software failed? You dodged my question.

EDIT: Can we keep this up? I'll be hitting my 20k post soon! :P

Haha and I can name you times when Microsoft have failed me software wise in the past, sure.

When I've wanted to do application backups and restores onto new computers I've had to reinstall all my applications and manually backup any and all data from these applications manually.

Windows Update have caused me update loops and on one machine a kernel file to become corrupt therefore causing 13 BSODs last month which was a pain to fix.

When I open My Computer on a Windows Installation on a 4 core AMD machine it freezes for 5ish seconds until it loads all the appropriate information about the drives.

The installer for Microsoft Essentials (for MSN, Hotmail and whatever other crap they bundle in that installer of theirs) opens runs but gets the same error, when it's finding what it's installing the progress bar remains at 0%.

Emptying the recycling bin results in explorer.exe encountering a problem and having to restart.

When I right click and get that menu, then click out the menu fades away, only it doesn't fade away completely. It stays there partly faded away partly there.

When I want to enable my secondary monitor as so the setting to extend desktop displays I have to actually unplug the HDMI cable on the monitor and plug it back in (this happens on all external displays).

The top of Internet Explorer is completely black save for the address bar, but when I type a url into the bar and hit enter it stops responding and exits.

I do not know how to specifically narrow this down to a problem although I have never kept an installation of Windows for over half a year. At that point there are so many files on it, the registry is so big, so many installed applications that I just have to reinstall Windows because I want everything to be clean and fast again. I could reinstall OS X and it would run faster too because it was less as you would say bogged down, but I can blatantly notice the difference by a much larger margin when I do so on Windows.

I have also had problems running Ubuntu though most of those problems have been drivers (or a lack thereof), and I do believe some issues I've had with Windows have been driver related such as following a Windows Update all my sound drivers are gone and I have lost all audio. Although that isn't a good defense for Windows anyway even if it is manufacture's fault that they don't provide good drivers because I still can't use the OS with terrible drivers can I?

There are two problems with this iMac which have been driving me crazy. Sometimes when I come out of standby the box that's supposed to prompt you for your username and password doesn't come up and you have to go back into standby and come out for it to display.

The second is sometimes when coming out of standby OS X doesn't think you're connected to the internet and you have to replug the LAN cable in, though this issue was fixed after recent updates.

Edit: I wish to also point out that I wouldn't have mentioned these things but you asked me to so if you're looking to come back with an argument don't. You asked. Also I just want to say, regardless of what you, Gomme, Matt or anyone else may think, I have used and continue to use Windows and OS X. Again you may disagree until you are blue in the face, but I have had better luck running OS X. OS X has demonstrated more reliability for me. I do not come home and pull hairs out spending two hours trying to fix my Mac like I have in the past with Windows. If this has not been the case with you, then fine it hasn't been. But I do not care. I choose what runs the best for me, I make it work how I'd like it to work, and I can accomplish all my office, internet, im, designing and coding needs.

Also to everyone who invaded this thread with Windows remarks, I will remember this the next time a Mac user says something anti Microsoft / pro Apple in a Microsoft thread and you get angry :P

[Recursion]

Haha and I can name you times when Microsoft have failed me software wise in the past, sure.

When I've wanted to do application backups and restores onto new computers I've had to reinstall all my applications and manually backup any and all data from these applications manually.

Windows Update have caused me update loops and on one machine a kernel file to become corrupt therefore causing 13 BSODs last month which was a pain to fix.

When I open My Computer on a Windows Installation on a 4 core AMD machine it freezes for 5ish seconds until it loads all the appropriate information about the drives.

The installer for Microsoft Essentials opens runs but gets the same error, when it's finding what it's installing the progress bar remains at 0%.

Emptying the recycling bin results in explorer.exe encountering a problem and having to restart.

When I right click and get that menu, then click out the menu fades away, only it doesn't fade away completely. It stays there partly faded away partly there.

When I want to enable my secondary monitor as so the setting to extend desktop displays I have to actually unplug the HDMI cable on the monitor and plug it back in (this happens on all external displays).

The top of Internet Explorer is completely black save for the address bar, but when I type a url into the bar and hit enter it stops responding and exits.

I do not know how to specifically narrow this down to a problem although I have never kept an installation of Windows for over half a year. At that point there are so many files on it, the registry is so big, so many installed applications that I just have to reinstall Windows because I want everything to be clean and fast again. I could reinstall OS X and it would run faster too because it was less as you would say bogged down, but I can blatantly notice the difference by a much larger margin when I do so on Windows.


Fair issues to raise.

A) You can't narrow this down specifically to be Microsoft's problem, yes, it could have been a software update problem, but equally it could have been hardware failure or even a rogue application/virus/malware.

B) Not gunna lie, this sounds more like a drive issue, as in, slow or dying HDDs, I've encountered this a few times and a new drive has fixed the problem.

C) Fair enough, I've also experienced this.

D) This sounds like a driver or GPU issue to me.

E) I think it's realistically, unfair to criticise the Windows Registry, it's a central store of application and system information/settings, Mac OS X has the equivalent of these in the form of .plist files, which are scattered around the disk and cause it to slow over time due to fragmentation, you'd have to get a third party program to clean them up, as you would with the Windows Registry.

Look, lets end this, every OS has issues, but every OS has strengths. Macs are easier to use than Windows and have a proven track record in the creative industry, but Windows works far better in enterprise environments or as gaming machines. Fair to say, no?

[HotelUser]

Fair issues to raise.

A) You can't narrow this down specifically to be Microsoft's problem, yes, it could have been a software update problem, but equally it could have been hardware failure or even a rogue application/virus/malware.

B) Not gunna lie, this sounds more like a drive issue, as in, slow or dying HDDs, I've encountered this a few times and a new drive has fixed the problem.

C) Fair enough, I've also experienced this.

D) This sounds like a driver or GPU issue to me.

E) I think it's realistically, unfair to criticise the Windows Registry, it's a central store of application and system information/settings, Mac OS X has the equivalent of these in the form of .plist files, which are scattered around the disk and cause it to slow over time due to fragmentation, you'd have to get a third party program to clean them up, as you would with the Windows Registry.

Look, lets end this, every OS has issues, but every OS has strengths. Macs are easier to use than Windows and have a proven track record in the creative industry, but Windows works far better in enterprise environments or as gaming machines. Fair to say, no?

Gaming yes, enterprise environments I do not think you can say that cut and dry. I do not think it's harsh to criticize the registry only because the way applications are organized on Windows means you cannot back them up as easily. But more or less Windows 7 and OS X are damn good and I quite happily run them both.

[GommeInc]

if you're such an expert how come you're not working for a multi-billion pound company earning a million £ + per year salary?
Because I have the ability to criticise any company like any other human being? Since when was being critical unhuman :S So I bought a PS3 through genetics instead of an Xbox 360 because I have the inability to criticise? :S What is your point? I'm confused by your idea that criticism and critical thinking in general isn't human :P

[AgnesIO]

Because I have the ability to criticise any company like any other human being? Since when was being critical unhuman :S So I bought a PS3 through genetics instead of an Xbox 360 because I have the inability to criticise? :S What is your point? I'm confused by your idea that criticism and critical thinking in general isn't human :P

No. The difference is you probably had valid, factual reasons for getting a PS3 over an xBox. Whereas claiming Apple are poor at advertising is clearly not factual (since it doesn't take a genius to work out that their marketing skills in general are superb..) - and therefore the opinion is not really as valid, since you have based that opinion on false grounds/allegations.

[StefanWolves]

Lol this isn't going anywhere is it :/

[GommeInc]

No. The difference is you probably had valid, factual reasons for getting a PS3 over an xBox. Whereas claiming Apple are poor at advertising is clearly not factual (since it doesn't take a genius to work out that their marketing skills in general are superb..) - and therefore the opinion is not really as valid, since you have based that opinion on false grounds/allegations.
*facepalm* It's opinion and it's actually fact in some respects. Look at their advertisements and you'd see how poor their advertising campaigns are. Compare it with the Windows 7 advertisements:

Mac vs. PC advertisement: <insert dig at Microsoft> <insert another dig at Microsoft> <laugh> <insert another dig at Microsoft>

Microsoft Windows 7 advertisement: Use click-to to browse two windows simutaneously with one another. With Windows 7 you can *blah blah blah*

I have "facts" for buying Windows over OSX, so your first sentence is pure bile :/

An Apple advert doesn't advertise anything or tell the viewer what the product is about, it's why most Apple adverts are banned in the UK because they're usually false advertising (Mac vs. PC ads) or not telling you anything. Do you not watch television at all? Do you not read articles on tech related websites? They're not superb at all, they're trashy pieces of tat that only amaze the simple or people who buy into the organisation.


Lol this isn't going anywhere is it :/
Are you going to suggest people aren't allowed opinions and/or the ability to criticise without being a god or a worker for an organisation again? :P

EDIT: And since when did I say it was fact? :S

[StefanWolves]

haha that was pulled out of thin air, some random dude earlier just came in shouting the odds saying i said people weren't allowed opinions :P people like that who spread ******** really piss me off ;)

[GommeInc]

haha that was pulled out of thin air, some random dude earlier just came in shouting the odds saying i said people weren't allowed opinions :P people like that who spread ******** really piss me off ;)
He had a point:


Its funny watching people on this forum criticise Apples marketing... Yea, right, because you lot know better than the Marketing experts who are paid £millions per year employed by Apple
You have pretty much told everyone that they are not allowed an opinion on Apple if they do not work for their marketing team :P

[StefanWolves]

I'm sorry but can you quote me where I said 'no one else deserves an opinion cause you're all wrong' ?

---------- Post added 09-06-2011 at 10:45 PM ----------

people read to much into things

[GommeInc]

I'm sorry but can you quote me where I said 'no one else deserves an opinion cause you're all wrong' ?
So what did you mean by "Yea, right, because you lot know better than the Marketing experts who are paid £millions per year employed by Apple"? Why do you say this? To me that's the same as "you clearly do not know anything about advertising". It's all well and good saying that, but giving no explanation suggests the discussion should end, whether or not people disagree with the way Apple advertise. You have to elaborate, otherwise people get the wrong idea :P

[StefanWolves]

No, it didnt mean that at all. I meant that Apple is obviously doing something right as theyre making billions upon billions. So who are WE to question them?

If i wanted to say you didnt deserve an opinion id just come out and say it wouldnt I? My god. Get over it.

[Recursion]

No, it didnt mean that at all. I meant that Apple is obviously doing something right as theyre making billions upon billions. So who are WE to question them?

If i wanted to say you didnt deserve an opinion id just come out and say it wouldnt I? My god. Get over it.

We're allowed to question things, without questions, we wouldn't be human.

Ok, so now this is turning less into an OS vs OS thing and more into an argument I'll just be closing this thread temporarily for a "cool down" period.