Can we get one thing straight?

[The Don]

In films, in the cinema, a 12 A (a film which can be viewed by 12 year olds + on their own, or 11 and younger with an adult. In films which are rated 12a, swearing is allowed. The film, xmen first class, has a cameo with wolverine, in which he tells the main characters to *REMOVED* off. This is because, in a 12a, the f word is allowed to be used ONCE.

Now, in the video I posted, it has the f word, once. If we are catering to the younger audiences, 12 onwards, why are we being more strict than the bbfc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you need to be 12/13 to play habbo? so there is no reason I should have had a warning for that video, which was a tame music video which contained one swear word.

I made this thread separate to richies to draw attention to this point.

Edited by Infectious (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not avoid the filter!
cheers.

[myke]

if you have a problem with a warning or a infraction then use the proper way... people posting in feedback about their petty problems is boring now :rolleyes: </thread>

yeh i can be an arse too ;l

[The Don]

I didn't get an infraction, i made this thread as feedback to the rule. Don't comment if your getting bored of it, simple really.

[Richie]

Get one thing STRAIGHT? haha this is habboxforum mate

Edited by Infectious (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not make pointless posts

[myke]

I didn't get an infraction, i made this thread as feedback to the rule. Don't comment if your getting bored of it, simple really.

no, you've made this thread because you got a warning about it.

there's another thread to discuss censorship issues

and i'll comment where and when i want thx.

[GommeInc]

if you have a problem with a warning or a infraction then use the proper way... people posting in feedback about their petty problems is boring now :rolleyes: </thread>

yeh i can be an arse too ;l
No it isn't? It's good feedback and can open up the issue for the community to see what they think. It's annoying when threads are pointlessly removed to the Complaints forum when the issue is up to community debate to see what they think - especially when the Complaints Forum is a tiny bit pointless anyway (basically it's a feedback/ask the forum staff hybrid forum).

That said, did you warn people that there was swearing? A 12A may contain swearing, but the BBFC and films must mention why the film is 12A e.g. swearing, mild sexual content etc. If you posted had a warning e.g. "Video Contains Swearing" then it's usually fine.

[The Don]

no, you've made this thread because you got a warning about it.

there's another thread to discuss censorship issues

and i'll comment where and when i want thx.

you obviously aren't bored since your still here?

and me getting the warning was what made me decide to create the thread, yes, but the warning is irrelevant.

[myke]

No it isn't? It's good feedback and can open up the issue for the community to see what they think. It's annoying when threads are pointlessly removed to the Complaints forum when the issue is up to community debate to see what they think - especially when the Complaints Forum is a tiny bit pointless anyway (basically it's a feedback/ask the forum staff hybrid forum).

It's good feedback if it's handled in the proper manner and posted in the thread that's already been made, instead of making a new thread.

and no im enjoying it now im going round in circles ty the don

[The Don]

No it isn't? It's good feedback and can open up the issue for the community to see what they think. It's annoying when threads are pointlessly removed to the Complaints forum when the issue is up to community debate to see what they think - especially when the Complaints Forum is a tiny bit pointless anyway (basically it's a feedback/ask the forum staff hybrid forum).

That said, did you warn people that there was swearing? A 12A may contain swearing, but the BBFC and films must mention why the film is 12A e.g. swearing, mild sexual content etc. If you posted had a warning e.g. "Video Contains Swearing" then it's usually fine.

yeh, that's fine, but hiding the video in a spoiler is pretty pointless. Also, they don't mention the swearing at the start of the film, you have to go on to the website to find out all that information.

[Mr-Trainor]

It's good feedback if it's handled in the proper manner and posted in the thread that's already been made, instead of making a new thread.

and no im enjoying it now im going round in circles ty the don
The other thread, if we're referring to the same one, is about something else and therefore I don't see why he should have to post this issue in that thread.

[The Don]

HOW DID I AVOID THE FILTER? THE SENTENCE ONLY HAD THE LETTERS F AND K AND THIS IS THE FEEDBACK FORUM WHERE SWEARING IS ALLOWED!

[myke]

The other thread, if we're referring to the same one, is about something else and therefore I don't see why he should have to post this issue in that thread.

the other one is about censorship too, so it could easily fall into that thread.

[GommeInc]

It's good feedback if it's handled in the proper manner and posted in the thread that's already been made, instead of making a new thread.
It's making a different point - there's no point sharing the same thread as you'd get mixed responses or no appropriate, tailor made answer to your query :)


yeh, that's fine, but hiding the video in a spoiler is pretty pointless. Also, they don't mention the swearing at the start of the film, you have to go on to the website to find out all that information.
The spoiler is a bit pointless judging by how the videos do not play automatically. Although if the video has the lovely F word chucked around on the video preview image (I think YouTube uses them?) then it probably should have one. The play button is a barrier to protect our underaged users, they shouldn't need two :P

[myke]

It's making a different point - there's no point sharing the same thread as you'd get mixed responses or no appropriate, tailor made answer to your query :)

I seem to find plenty tailor made answers in feedback threads, when someone quotes a post lol... o.o

[Mr-Trainor]

the other one is about censorship too, so it could easily fall into that thread.

True but they both relate to censorship in different ways so I personally feel they're best separated, so that people focus on one idea in a thread. I don't think it matters much anyway :P.

[Neversoft]

The rules have sure declined on this forum. Back in the day any video bar porn was generally allowed as long as a sufficient warning was given. Why on earth was this changed? Kids can just go onto YouTube these days and watch videos with all manners of violence and swearing in. I really don't understand why the moderators are so set on censoring the videos posted here. You aren't protecting the youth, you're just annoying everyone. And I really don't understand why a video that contains filtered words has to be put in a spoiler. It's a video, not an image and spoiler tags aren't stopping anyone from playing it.

[Mr-Trainor]

The spoiler is a bit pointless judging by how the videos do not play automatically. Although if the video has the lovely F word chucked around on the video preview image (I think YouTube uses them?) then it probably should have one. The play button is a barrier to protect our underaged users, they shouldn't need two :P

True but in my opinion, the video not playing automatically doesn't act as an indication that the video will have swearing in it, so there still isn't really a way of knowing whether to expect swearing or not.

[Inseriousity.]

yeh, that's fine, but hiding the video in a spoiler is pretty pointless. Also, they don't mention the swearing at the start of the film, you have to go on to the website to find out all that information.

Well if I hadn't known about the cameo I'd be pretty annoyed you'd spoilt it! Luckily I've already seen the film!
I'm sure they do mention it. Before the film where they have that title sequence with those signatures and underneath the rating of the film they have the reasons why.

[Chippiewill]

I believe the spoiler is an indication that the video contains swearing. Much like the rating of "12A" indicates swearing or violence. The rule is fair. The video not auto-starting is not *really* an indication that it contains swearing. Also I have a tendency to press play on videos without reading the post so not having the spoiler there kinda encourages that.

Stop nitpicking, it hardly affects you to stick spoilers around a video. Regardless of how far between the lines you look.

[The Don]

True but in my opinion, the video not playing automatically doesn't act as an indication that the video will have swearing in it, so there still isn't really a way of knowing whether to expect swearing or not.

no but what he means is, that if the video doesn't start automatically (which it doesn't) and a warning is placed above it saying that the video contains swearing, it's then up to them to press play, unless the video has a swear word on the screen before the video starts.

---------- Post added 14-06-2011 at 11:30 PM ----------


True but in my opinion, the video not playing automatically doesn't act as an indication that the video will have swearing in it, so there still isn't really a way of knowing whether to expect swearing or not.

no but what he means is, that if the video doesn't start automatically (which it doesn't) and a warning is placed above it saying that the video contains swearing, it's then up to them to press play, unless the video has a swear word on the screen before the video starts.

[HotelUser]

I don't think the problem is necessarily the rule itself, not that users are outright intending to violate it, I think it's a mix between:

1. The internet has changed since the forum was created in that internet videos are a lot more viral than they used to be and because of that we're sharing them very carelessly. We don't stop and think about the fact that there might be swearing in videos where the environment we're distributing them on prohibits swearing.

2. To tie in with the latter of the above, when you post a video on the forum there is no notification reminding the poster that special precautions must be put into place prior to posting a video which contains graphic / vulgar content.

In the past we have had no way to add automatic content warnings into place when you post a video, however Myke's just suggested an idea where videos are automatically put into spoilers and warnings saying "video MAY contain swearing" are added, and another idea which when you hit the video button it prompts you asking to tick a checkbox if the video contains swearing. I'm not sure if the latter is possible but the foremost certainly is, and implementing this should make things a lot more fair for users who just want to share videos in peace and don't realize their videos contain filtered content.

[Mr-Trainor]

no but what he means is, that if the video doesn't start automatically (which it doesn't) and a warning is placed above it saying that the video contains swearing, it's then up to them to press play, unless the video has a swear word on the screen before the video starts.

---------- Post added 14-06-2011 at 11:30 PM ----------



no but what he means is, that if the video doesn't start automatically (which it doesn't) and a warning is placed above it saying that the video contains swearing, it's then up to them to press play, unless the video has a swear word on the screen before the video starts.

Oh right. Tbh though I still think that in that case, spoilers should still be added. In the past I've read articles and not read them from top to bottom (might just be me :P) and sort of skipped to images/subsections and then gone back to other parts after. So there is a possibility that someone will see the video before anything else, because of it's size in particular, and play that before reading the text above and below.

[Chippiewill]

In the past we have had no way to add automatic content warnings into place when you post a video, however Myke's just suggested an idea where videos are automatically put into spoilers and warnings saying "video MAY contain swearing" are added,
That won't work, people will just start ignoring the warnings, just like every other computer warning on the planet.

What really needs to happen is that moderators should not start slapping users around because they didn't notice the swearing, just discretely put it into spoilers and pm the user rather than spamming modwarn tags and giving them infractions.

[Mr-Trainor]

What really needs to happen is that moderators should not start slapping users around because they didn't notice the swearing, just discretely put it into spoilers and pm the user rather than spamming modwarn tags and giving them infractions.

The problem with that is that people may stop adding warnings to vidoes and just expect that the moderators will go round and do it for them. As for giving infractions, I'm sure you won't get an infraction for it unless you've done it before.

[Chippiewill]

The problem with that is that people may stop adding warnings to vidoes and just expect that the moderators will go round and do it for them.

Well if a moderator notices a repeat offender in the user notes... it can be dealt with. But a song and parade should not be made of it (As it is today).

[Neversoft]

I believe the spoiler is an indication that the video contains swearing. Much like the rating of "12A" indicates swearing or violence. The rule is fair. The video not auto-starting is not *really* an indication that it contains swearing. Also I have a tendency to press play on videos without reading the post so not having the spoiler there kinda encourages that.

Stop nitpicking, it hardly affects you to stick spoilers around a video. Regardless of how far between the lines you look.

You talking to me? You don't need a spoiler and a warning to tell you the video contains swearing. The warning alone will suffice. The spoiler just seems pointless. Something doesn't have to affect you to be deemed unnecessary.

[Chippiewill]

You talking to me? You don't need a spoiler and a warning to tell you the video contains swearing. The warning alone will suffice. The spoiler just seems pointless. Something doesn't have to affect you to be deemed unnecessary.

I, as well as others have stated, that it is very easy not to notice the warning if you see a picture or a video since it dominates the page. The spoiler will give the reader that extra second they need.

[Richie]

I personally think a warning is fair but a spoiler isn't necessary, if management could add a box to the video url where a user can tick the box if the video has mild content everyone would be happy.

[Mr-Trainor]

You talking to me? You don't need a spoiler and a warning to tell you the video contains swearing. The warning alone will suffice. The spoiler just seems pointless. Something doesn't have to affect you to be deemed unnecessary.

As I mentioned above, I see the spoiler as a way of ensuring the reader has read the warning before playing the video, otherwise they may just see the video and play it without reading any text.

[GommeInc]

The rules have sure declined on this forum. Back in the day any video bar porn was generally allowed as long as a sufficient warning was given. Why on earth was this changed? Kids can just go onto YouTube these days and watch videos with all manners of violence and swearing in. I really don't understand why the moderators are so set on censoring the videos posted here. You aren't protecting the youth, you're just annoying everyone. And I really don't understand why a video that contains filtered words has to be put in a spoiler. It's a video, not an image and spoiler tags aren't stopping anyone from playing it.
It is a bit unnecessary and the rules are too strictly followed lately, even though the content maybe fine :P

The spoiler should only be used if the title or preview image contain filtered or inappropriate content. Warning members, removing the video or adding the scary, bold, red text seem like a waste of the moderators time. As long as the member adds "May contain swearing" in bold somewhere, then it's a suitable.

[Catzsy]

The rules have sure declined on this forum. Back in the day any video bar porn was generally allowed as long as a sufficient warning was given. Why on earth was this changed? Kids can just go onto YouTube these days and watch videos with all manners of violence and swearing in. I really don't understand why the moderators are so set on censoring the videos posted here. You aren't protecting the youth, you're just annoying everyone. And I really don't understand why a video that contains filtered words has to be put in a spoiler. It's a video, not an image and spoiler tags aren't stopping anyone from playing it.


The history of this is that links with warnings were allowed until videos were permitted to be embedded in the forum and then spoilers introduced because you weren't allowed to post videos directly on the forum before. Tbh I do think that from my point of view that spoilers make the forum look tidier and it's hardly an onerous task to put them in it. :)

[GommeInc]

True but in my opinion, the video not playing automatically doesn't act as an indication that the video will have swearing in it, so there still isn't really a way of knowing whether to expect swearing or not.
And the spoiler does? The warning, the play button and the spoiler are all different. The warning should be sufficient for just a video without a spoiler, it's a waste of a moderators time to have them enforce something that is unnecessary.

[Richie]

The history of this is that links with warnings were allowed until videos were permitted to be embedded in the forum and then spoilers introduced because you weren't allowed to post videos directly on the forum before. Tbh I do think that from my point of view that spoilers make the forum look tidier and it's hardly an onerous task to put them in it. :)

So if I just link people to a youtube video with a warning above the link and if it swears more than you deem "mild", that's fine?

What also annoys me is I can play a song with **** in it once but if the same song says it 10 times it's deemed as inappropriate, because that makes sense.

[Catzsy]

And the spoiler does? The warning, the play button and the spoiler are all different. The warning should be sufficient for just a video without a spoiler, it's a waste of a moderators time to have them enforce something that is unnecessary.

Habbox is responsible for content directly posted on the forum that's why when embedded videos were allowed spoilers were introduced. I don't mind either way tbh but the reasoning for them to be brought in was sound.

[GommeInc]

Habbox is responsible for content directly posted on the forum that's why when embedded videos were allowed spoilers were introduced. I don't mind either way tbh but the reasoning for them to be brought in was sound.
Wrong - All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of Habbox.com, habboxforum.com Forum, or Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) can be held responsible for the content of any message. It's in the Terms and Conditions.

[Catzsy]

Wrong - All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of Habbox.com, habboxforum.com Forum, or Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) can be held responsible for the content of any message. It's in the Terms and Conditions.

That's why is was brought in. That's all I am saying.

[GommeInc]

That's why is was brought in. That's all I am saying.
How on earth does that make sense? Habbox isn't responsible for the content, hence why the Terms and Conditions say this. Infact, I think the ToC is written out by default to suggest content is not the responsibility of the forum owners and creator (Jelsoft). The spoiler is a bit of an unnecessary step to protect members when red writing isn't hard to see and by clicking play you've eliminated any further responsibility for the video unless there are hefty reports about how a member died in the watching of the video.

[Catzsy]

How on earth does that make sense? Habbox isn't responsible for the content, hence why the Terms and Conditions say this. Infact, I think the ToC is written out by default to suggest content is not the responsibility of the forum owners and creator (Jelsoft). The spoiler is a bit of an unnecessary step to protect members when red writing isn't hard to see and by clicking play you've eliminated any further responsibility for the video unless there are hefty reports about how a member died in the watching of the video.

Well I am only telling you the history behind it. Links were allowed with warnings as Habbox management at the time did not want them directly on the forum. Could have been something to do with the Habbo Way at the time, I am not sure. Spoilers do look tidier and also there is a problem that the actual part of the embedded video showing is mildly inappropriate or mildly avoids the filter which happens quite often so it would get even more confusing as to when a spoiler should be added.

[GommeInc]

Well I am only telling you the history behind it. Links were allowed with warnings as Habbox management at the time did not want them directly on the forum. Could have been something to do with the Habbo Way at the time, I am not sure. Spoilers do look tidier and also there is a problem that the actual part of the embedded video showing is mildly inappropriate or mildly avoids the filter which happens quite often so it would get even more confusing as to when a spoiler should be added.
No it wouldn't, for the very reasons you've mentioned :P When it does that, enforce the rule but if members forget to and the video is completely harmless then don't bother and go waste your time doing something else, like talking to your members :P

[Chippiewill]

Wrong - All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of Habbox.com, habboxforum.com Forum, or Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) can be held responsible for the content of any message. It's in the Terms and Conditions.Habbox is still responsible to moderate the content.

[GommeInc]

Habbox is still responsible to moderate the content.
But they're still not responsible for the content ;) Moderating is to stop any malicious content that effects any rules or laws that are broken set up by the forum. It is pretty tedious if a moderator feels the need to add a spoiler or remove a whole post because of a video that isn't in spoilers. If the video, on face value, is fine and has a red warning then it's fine. Once a user hits the play button it's their fault, not Habbox, especially when the majority of the forum would have the sense to read a warning, or not care what they're watching.

[Catzsy]

But they're still not responsible for the content ;) Moderating is to stop any malicious content that effects any rules or laws that are broken set up by the forum. It is pretty tedious if a moderator feels the need to add a spoiler or remove a whole post because of a video that isn't in spoilers. If the video, on face value, is fine and has a red warning then it's fine. Once a user hits the play button it's their fault, not Habbox, especially when the majority of the forum would have the sense to read a warning, or not care what they're watching.

Nobody removes a whole post unless it is totally unsuitable and it is part of our job, whether you find it tedious or not, to put it in spoilers if it is mildly inappropriate. It might be fine by you but then you are not part of the management team here at Habbox and we answer to them.

[GommeInc]

Nobody removes a whole post unless it is totally unsuitable and it is part of our job, whether you find it tedious or not, to put it in spoilers if it is mildly inappropriate. It might be fine by you but then you are not part of the management team here at Habbox and we answer to them.
Perhaps you could persuade them that tedium is a time waster and should be avoided? :P As I said, I don't feel that a spoiler is completely necessary if the video on face value isn't rude (preview image/name). If the video has strong language in the video and has a warning, then it should be fine as red writing sticks out like a sore thumb. It's better than wasting a moderator's time afterall, might make them more sociable too :P

[Catzsy]

Perhaps you could persuade them that tedium is a time waster and should be avoided? :P As I said, I don't feel that a spoiler is completely necessary if the video on face value isn't rude (preview image/name). If the video has strong language in the video and has a warning, then it should be fine as red writing sticks out like a sore thumb. It's better than wasting a moderator's time afterall, might make them more sociable too :P

Well we have to follow the 'Fansite Way'

*Publish any material which may be offensive to other users or contains sexual content which is another consideration. I really do think this is a 'mountain - molehill' issue though as it takes a couple of seconds to put something in a spoiler:P


How the heck you think that putting a video or as another example answers from a Habbo quest in a spoiler signals that mods are not sociable is beyond me. I feel we have just fallen into 'nit picking mode' in this thread tbh. :P

[Jay.]

In regards to the original post,

Even though it is suitable for 12 year olds and HxF is targeted at teens that age not all those teens or their parents want to hear these swearwords. Therefore, putting the video in a spoiler will help the people viewing the film know what to expect beforehand.

[GommeInc]

Well we have to follow the 'Fansite Way'
"Publish any material which may be offensive to other users or contains sexual content"

It doesn't say anything about censorship or spoilers, it's implied... Surely if a member just posts a warning then the video is fine (provided the video has a sensible name and no preview image)? Again, it means moderators can waste ther time doing other things as the video is clearly censored and has a warning. Once you click play the responsibility is put into the hand of the person who has clicked the play button, as the warning removes any doubt. The spoiler seems a bit pointless to uphold and is bureaucratic nit-picking at its finest.

Also, it was an expression and an example :rolleyes:

[Catzsy]

"Publish any material which may be offensive to other users or contains sexual content"

It doesn't say anything about censorship or spoilers, it's implied... Surely if a member just posts a warning then the video is fine (provided the video has a sensible name and no preview image)? Again, it means moderators can waste ther time doing other things as the video is clearly censored and has a warning. Once you click play the responsibility is put into the hand of the person who has clicked the play button, as the warning removes any doubt. The spoiler seems a bit pointless to uphold and is bureaucratic nit-picking at its finest.

Also, it was an expression and an example :rolleyes:

Well you are entitled to your opinion, I guess but I will agree to disagree with you on this and I think Jay makes a good point.

[GommeInc]

Well you are entitled to your opinion, I guess but I will agree to disagree with you on this and I think Jay makes a good point.
Not really, unless you can infer swearing from videos without watching them now :P If you do you have a magical gift ;)

I'm still surprised you think there has to be a spoiler, it seems a waste of time to warn a member or spoiler a post if the video is completely harmless on face value (name and preview), but I guess it's your time to waste.

[Catzsy]

Not really, unless you can infer swearing from videos without watching them now :P If you do you have a magical gift ;)

I'm still surprised you think there has to be a spoiler, it seems a waste of time to warn a member or spoiler a post if the video is completely harmless on face value (name and preview), but I guess it's your time to waste.

We have to watch the videos. Again it is part of the moderating role and I am quite happy that it wastes no time but if management wish to make a different decision on them that is fine too. I think spoilers are fine and spoilers are not put on videos that do not contain 'mildly inappropriate content'. Members aren't warned about spoilers. If they forget mods put them on and they are just sent a pm informing them of that. Only time further action maybe considered is if they ignore several pms and they would be given plenty of notice of that.