Account Deletion

[Chippiewill]

Concerning this thread: http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=709279&p=7185892#post7185892

I'm fairly certain it's illegal not to delete all the data related to their account if they request it.

[GoldenMerc]

They don't have to delete it but they have to delete email, ip as its something to do with data protection act

[myke]

I don't understand how anyone can suffer an OCD about being online on a forum...

[Chippiewill]

They don't have to delete it but they have to delete email, ip as its something to do with data protection act
That's what I was thinking, there's probably some data they can keep (Maybe posts) but other stuff predominantly userdata is a requirement.


It's hardly a valid reason for the account to be deleted, I don't understand how anyone can suffer an OCD about being online on a forum...
This isn't a discussion of the legitimacy of the reason.

[Richie]

I can kind of understand were the guy is coming from. I know it's unlikely but what if someone on the forum was to post a load of crap as a child (Being idiotic) then became a politician, I know it's only a forum but it could create huge problems. For that reason and that reason only I somewhat regret registering to habboxforum.

P.s I don't want to be a politician but I've made some mistakes that I would hate to haunt me in the future if I ever became famous etc.

[myke]

there's probably a clause in the terms and conditions somewhere saying its your own fault that the datas there

[Chippiewill]

there's probably a clause in the terms and conditions somewhere saying its your own fault that the datas there
These laws were made blanketed for security reasons, I doubt a clause would cover it.

[myke]

These laws were made blanketed for security reasons, I doubt a clause would cover it.

im not into law or anything but i do think that theres some overreaction regarding this

[Chippiewill]

im not into law or anything but i do think that theres some overreaction regarding this
I'm just pointing out that it isn't Habbox's decision whether someone's allowed to have their userdata (And maybe posts?) removed.

[Jssy]

I've never thought of this actually, but I kinda think what's here will always be stored on the internet somewhere

[Mathew]

Taken from the signature of someone I used to know on another forum:

http://www.potterwatch.com/images/TTCSig.jpg

Although, I would have thought Habbox would have to remove email and IP for obvious data protection reasons.

[Mr-Trainor]

I've never really heard this before but I can see how it could cause problems.


Second, we have to be fair to all members, and since we haven't deleted any accounts since 2004 when we opened it wouldn't be fair to start making exceptions now.
I'm sure accounts have been deleted :P?

[scott]

The reason he wants his account deleted is because he has OCD not anything to do with the fact that we have his e-mail or IP address. We would have no problem in removing his email from his account if that is what he wanted.


We will not delete user accounts, user threads, posts or otherwise submitted content to our web site.
http://www.habboxforum.com/faq.php?faq=rules_main#faq_forum_terms_and_conditi ons

[Chippiewill]

Taken from the signature of someone I used to know on another forum:

http://www.potterwatch.com/images/TTCSig.jpg
a) That's American law?
b) http://www.potterwatch.com/ ?

[Recursion]

I'm by no means a data protection lawyer but according to UK laws Habbox may keep data for as long as they deem necessary whilst being able to justify it (i.e. to monitor for paedophilia).

For example, at work we can't delete data for a period of 3 years in case we have to go back on it later on for investigative purposes.

[Catzsy]

a) That's American law?
b) http://www.potterwatch.com/ ?

Read the T&C's as Scott has posted. It specifically says that Habbox does not delete accounts and never has.
I am sure Alex will be back. It was just a post approval thing. You know if you are citing data protection maybe you should refer us to the actual clause that Habbox is violating and also the country that Habbox would be sued in.
That's debatable.

[Inseriousity.]

http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisations/data_protection/the_guide/principle_6/damage_or_distress.aspx

Judging by this website, I think Habbox are in their rights to not delete his account within the data protection act that people seem to be mentioning. not entirely sure why people are using it for a teenage online habbo fansite :D

[GoldenMerc]

You deleted Mizki's account ;)
Then Jin pulled it back up but it was still deleted at one point

[Casanova]

Here's my thoughts on it:

the OCD; I don't believe this is feasible. For OCD I don't think it's possible to manifest such a thought to work towards something then destroy it. Ie, I don't believe it would actually make sense for someone (especially with OCD) to do something then do the opposite. It's not a normal trait because if you think of main-stream OCD as it's known with cleaning that's essentially sterilising an area then flinging dirt and faeces everywhere to start again - it's destructive and against the grain of what OCD compels normally. I guess it's possible but HIGHLY unlikely.

the DPA; There's a barrage of information surrounding and containing DPA. Most of it is inconcequencial here but to re-cap over the information you would need to fully grasp why it's not likely, compelled by law nor neccessary.

* Under DPA the information he would be implying would be information he can access. His only 'personal' information in which he could hold protest to would be his own personal profile. His IP is of course his own personal information but Habbox are not compelled to remove it as it's not accessable nor given out as that would of course be highly unethical. As such, only trusted members of staff could/are able to access such information. So the information in which he could demand to be removed is only the information he can EASILY remove.

* when he signed up, he agreed to the terms and conditions of Habbox, which included the fact that any information he adds to our community is owned intellectually at least by habbox and they're under no obligation to change/do such a thing under request for accounts as they still own them and of course the information left on them (ie the posts).

* legally under EU/international law the information in which wouldn't be surrounded/encased under DPA protection is such things as his IP and unseen information on which he has left a trace - this is under eu law for such thing as eBullying/grooming/predatory/illegal behaviour(s). Any information removed with the intention to hide any action would be accessory after the fact... but that's going too far into it!


Essentially the information on anyone's account is either deletable by them (personal information), removed (if you post information on this forum technically if it's personal it's removable under our rules) or shouldn't be removed ethically under the guidance of internet laws especially for monitoring of illegal behaviours - matt and/or his team need to store information for a 'reasonable time' in case any such behaviour arrises as they're obligied to act upon it.

Either way, it's invalid, silly and not even correct. DPA is being complied with and OCD wouldn't effect anything under that request.

[Catzsy]

You deleted Mizki's account ;)
Then Jin pulled it back up but it was still deleted at one point

I don't think anybody in the present management team deleted this account? :P

[Richie]

Here's my thoughts on it:

the OCD; I don't believe this is feasible. For OCD I don't think it's possible to manifest such a thought to work towards something then destroy it. Ie, I don't believe it would actually make sense for someone (especially with OCD) to do something then do the opposite. It's not a normal trait because if you think of main-stream OCD as it's known with cleaning that's essentially sterilising an area then flinging dirt and faeces everywhere to start again - it's destructive and against the grain of what OCD compels normally. I guess it's possible but HIGHLY unlikely.

the DPA; There's a barrage of information surrounding and containing DPA. Most of it is inconcequencial here but to re-cap over the information you would need to fully grasp why it's not likely, compelled by law nor neccessary.

* Under DPA the information he would be implying would be information he can access. His only 'personal' information in which he could hold protest to would be his own personal profile. His IP is of course his own personal information but Habbox are not compelled to remove it as it's not accessable nor given out as that would of course be highly unethical. As such, only trusted members of staff could/are able to access such information. So the information in which he could demand to be removed is only the information he can EASILY remove.

* when he signed up, he agreed to the terms and conditions of Habbox, which included the fact that any information he adds to our community is owned intellectually at least by habbox and they're under no obligation to change/do such a thing under request for accounts as they still own them and of course the information left on them (ie the posts).

* legally under EU/international law the information in which wouldn't be surrounded/encased under DPA protection is such things as his IP and unseen information on which he has left a trace - this is under eu law for such thing as eBullying/grooming/predatory/illegal behaviour(s). Any information removed with the intention to hide any action would be accessory after the fact... but that's going too far into it!


Essentially the information on anyone's account is either deletable by them (personal information), removed (if you post information on this forum technically if it's personal it's removable under our rules) or shouldn't be removed ethically under the guidance of internet laws especially for monitoring of illegal behaviours - matt and/or his team need to store information for a 'reasonable time' in case any such behaviour arrises as they're obligied to act upon it.

Either way, it's invalid, silly and not even correct. DPA is being complied with and OCD wouldn't effect anything under that request.


Isn't there some sort of law were you can't agree to something without a parents consent if you're under the age of 18? Even today it doesn't mention anything about getting your parents permission to agree to the T&C, i could be talking a load of bollocks.

[Chippiewill]

You know if you are citing data protection maybe you should refer us to the actual clause that Habbox is violating and also the country that Habbox would be sued in.
I never said I was citing data protection or that there does in fact exist such a clause, I was expressing concern that such a clause may exist. Also I have no idea where the Habbox servers are located and therefore no idea what laws it would come under.


Isn't there some sort of law were you can't agree to something without a parents consent if you're under the age of 18? Even today it doesn't mention anything about getting your parents permission to agree to the T&C, i could be talking a load of bollocks. I think that *might* be true but only up to the age of legal responsibility.

[Casanova]

and then the argument of where juristiction would come in.
I believe it would be EU.

Either way, he agreed to t&c and if he breached the rules that no one's liability but his own. He doesn't need a parent to sign up to the forum as it doesn't provide any financial benefit to anyone.

[-Danube-]

Isn't there some sort of law were you can't agree to something without a parents consent if you're under the age of 18? Even today it doesn't mention anything about getting your parents permission to agree to the T&C, i could be talking a load of bollocks.

I think thats just for things which it is felt you are not old enough to consent to yourself (sexual content or things to do with money/marriage etc.... although i doubt your parents would give you consent to access most, if any, sexual content on the internet!) Obviously this being a community mainly aimed at 'young adults'/teenagers then it's something you could consent to without your parents i would think.

Tbh you could search through hundreds of silly laws that are still in place today, that the government just hasn't removed, that would contradict most things that we do today.

But like others have said, Habbox isn't infringing on the Data protection act. That only applies to personal information, i remember having to do the DPA training for work and it said something along the lines of that a company can store personal information of a person for as long as they see fit aslong as they have reason to do so. They cannot share your information with other parties without your prior consent (eg the tick boxes when you sign something). I think it also states that a person can demand to see personal information, about themselves, from a company and you can also demand to change anything which is incorrect. You also have the right to ask a company to remove any personal data they keep about you.

About the only personal data habbox keep about it's members is an email address and ip address. Like scott said, if he requested we remove his email we'd have no issue with that.

Any other personal data placed on an account would be placed on the profile by the user and so they can remove this themselves. Posts on the forum however are not personal information and so by agreeing to the Terms and Conditions of the site, you are agree that you cannot have your account deleted.

So it's nothing to do with DPA really, it's all covered by the Terms and Conditions you sign.

Thats my view on things anyway.

[Stephen]

I think thats just for things which it is felt you are not old enough to consent to yourself (sexual content or things to do with money/marriage etc.... although i doubt your parents would give you consent to access most, if any, sexual content on the internet!) Obviously this being a community mainly aimed at 'young adults'/teenagers then it's something you could consent to without your parents i would think.

Tbh you could search through hundreds of silly laws that are still in place today, that the government just hasn't removed, that would contradict most things that we do today.

But like others have said, Habbox isn't infringing on the Data protection act. That only applies to personal information, i remember having to do the DPA training for work and it said something along the lines of that a company can store personal information of a person for as long as they see fit aslong as they have reason to do so. They cannot share your information with other parties without your prior consent (eg the tick boxes when you sign something). I think it also states that a person can demand to see personal information, about themselves, from a company and you can also demand to change anything which is incorrect. You also have the right to ask a company to remove any personal data they keep about you.

About the only personal data habbox keep about it's members is an email address and ip address. Like scott said, if he requested we remove his email we'd have no issue with that.

Any other personal data placed on an account would be placed on the profile by the user and so they can remove this themselves. Posts on the forum however are not personal information and so by agreeing to the Terms and Conditions of the site, you are agree that you cannot have your account deleted.

So it's nothing to do with DPA really, it's all covered by the Terms and Conditions you sign.

Thats my view on things anyway.

who are you?

Edited by Catz (Forum Super Moderator): Please stay on-topic. Thanks

[Catzsy]

I never said I was citing data protection or that there does in fact exist such a clause, I was expressing concern that such a clause may exist. Also I have no idea where the Habbox servers are located and therefore no idea what laws it would come under.




So what does this mean then?
I
'm fairly certain it's illegal not to delete all the data related to their account if they request it.


Why make a thread when basically you are basing the whole thing on what you think you know? Some research would have been good as you are the OP. :P

In any event the only personal data would be his email address really so that could be deleted. I can't see a reason at all to change the whole T&Cs for one case.

[Chippiewill]

So what does this mean then?
Means to some degree of certainty that's what I think might be true?


Why make a thread when basically you are basing the whole thing on what you think you know? Some research would have been good as you are the OP. :P
Because doing research takes time when making a thread takes seconds and people either do it for you or already know.


In any event the only personal data would be his email address really so that could be deleted. I can't see a reason at all to change the whole T&Cs for one case.
Actually Habbox logs IPs so that could also certainly be requested for deletion.

Although, this does beg the question. Is there any good reason as to why Habbox should refuse to delete my account (Not posts)

[Catzsy]

Means to some degree of certainty that's what I think might be true?


Because doing research takes time when making a thread takes seconds and people either do it for you or already know.


Actually Habbox logs IPs so that could also certainly be requested for deletion.


Well you have a point about the IP not that it shows the address of anybody but that's all that would be required I guess.

[Casanova]

It's unfair, you could post defamatory information and no one would have the valid information to then debate your ideologies or thoughts.
It breaches the integrity of the forum and if you have an issue with posting on a forum you should never join.

If anyone reads the T&C they'd notice their posts are their contributory factor to the forum/owners. It's not their property as such, they're the author but it's the forum's.

[The Don]

My first account got deleted :P

It would be handy if there was a feature where general management could make a user account invisible to the public, but it would still be visible to super moderators/general management.

[Richie]

Or change all usernames which request to be removed to "Private"

[Chippiewill]

Or merge all "Deleted" account into a special deleted accounts user so all posts have an owner yet none of the userdata remains. (Manual scrubbing of IPs still required..)

[Recursion]

Why are people so worried about IP addresses? They're harmless information and if the law wanted to they would ask your ISP for logs (usually kept for a good few years...)

Honestly the only thing I'd be worried about is my posts and my email address.

[GommeInc]

Technically you have to remove any personal or private information if the user requested it, as it is their data and not the company who is hosting or holding it. Personal information is only pictures, email addresses, home addresses, videos, names etc. Posts aren't recognisable data, nor are accounts. This is from what I gather in a book I read not so long ago on data protection, but I could be wrong :P

EDIT: Yep - accounts and posts are not involved as they become the property of Habbox. It's only illegal if Habbox uses your posts against you, or process your posts for malicious reasons e.g. combine the posts and your account with the personal information to use against you. If you've got your address plastered around your account somewhere, you can ask them to remove that, but they're not leally obliged to have to removethe account or the posts as they're not identifiable pieces of information that can identify you.

[Jordan:A]

The person has brought VIP though, well should I say, donated.
I'm sure they wouldn't be able to fully delete his account until this has ended.

[Casanova]

nope. it wouldn't affect the subscription, you can delete it as soon as you want.
Plus it's only a usergroup - you can move people in and out at will.

Either way, he's being highly silly.

[David]

The person has brought VIP though, well should I say, donated.
I'm sure they wouldn't be able to fully delete his account until this has ended.

They can add/remove accounts from user groups manually, too. So this wouldn't get in the way if the account were to be deleted, but it won't be deleted as it goes against Habbox T&C's

[HotelUser]

It's your own decision to register on a forum, make posts, buy donator and so on. As Scott said we don't mind removing email addresses or even concealing IPs as to ensure the protection of members. As far as deleting accounts goes that's our prerogative. We will safety ban accounts but we will not outright delete them, just like we will not outright delete any posts but simply move inappropriate posts out of any given thread.

Complaints are posted in the complaints forum for a reason, they are complaints and do not require specific commentary threads in the feedback forums especially where others are poking fun and debating the poster's OCD, or speculating on the poster of the complaint itself - that's why that poster posted in complaints in the first place.

Thread closed.