Teen Commits Suicide Due to Bullying [Archive]

Judas

20-09-2011, 04:05 PM

A 14 year old boy who lives in Buffalo, New York, killed himself a few days ago due to bullies at his school who teased him for being gay, and for wearing Lady Gaga and Paramore t-shirts to school everyday.

On his Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/hausofjamey) account, he posted messages such as "i hope @ladygaga will follow me one day!!! She is why I live", "@ladygaga i need you, being bullied already. :c" and "i wish someone could care for me - but i realize no one wants to, because i'm a douche". His last tweet read "@ladygaga bye mother monster, thank you for all you have done, paws up forever".

I find it so tragic that a 14 year old boy has to turn to someone he doesn't know, Lady Gaga, for love and acceptance. I don't think kids realise what an effect their words can have when they think it's just all a little joke and a game with their friends.

Here's an article

WILLIAMSVILLE, NY - Tracy and Tim Rodemeyer say they're speaking out to help others avoid the nightmare they're going through right now. They say early Monday morning, their son, 14-year old Jamey, was found dead after an apparent suicide. He left no note. But they say he was bullied for years in middle school. Jamey even talked about it on a video he made on YouTube in May.

"People would just keep sending me hate, telling me that gay people go to hell," Jamey said in the video.

"It was a constant taunting," said Tracy. "The same people over and over."

The bullying got so bad the parents went to the school about it. Tracy and Tim say the school tried to stop it and succeeded at times. Jamey also went through counseling and learned to deal with it better. But it was tough. The bullies were mean.

"People would say, you're like a girl or whatever and then even some of them would say what are you gay," said Tracy. "And he did not like when he was being called those things."

Tracy says Jamey questioned his sexuality and they talked about it openly as a family, and that for the last year, he was doing well.

Jamey just started high school at Williamsville North three weeks ago. And his parents say he loved it.

"He was saying how great school was going, how happy he was, his grades were great," said Tim Rodemeyer. "[There was] No indication that he was in pain."

But Jamey's friends shined a different light on the situation after his death.

"They saw that the bullying was still happening but Jamey was handling it well," said Tracy. "It was nothing that he or anybody was concerned on."

"Do you think it just got to the point where he just couldn't handle it anymore?" 2 On Your Side's Josh Boose asked Tim, Jamey's dad.

"Yeah, I think so," Tim replied. "I think that's what happened. He fooled everybody. He put on a brave face and I wish he wouldn't have."

Tim and Tracy say they have a message for other parents:

"They have to teach their children to stand up for themselves and their friends and stop the bullies from bullying people," said Tim.

"It took him away from our family way too early and we're just convinced that he had a purpose on this planet and it was to touch as many people as he could," said Tracy.

And Jamey too was touched by someone: Lady Gaga.
He made a collage of himself at different stages in his life with Lady Gaga in the background. Jamey's parents say he embraced her theme of acceptance and equality.

Tracy and Tim think Jamey was put here to show people that being different is ok and that bullying is wrong and perhaps more of a problem than many realize.

"I think that was my son's number one mission in life, why he was put here a short time was to get that point out," said Tracy."And if that means I have to carry it on for him, I will."

Amherst Police are investigating the exact cause of Jamey's death. As of Monday night, they would not comment.

Williamsville Central Schools sent a letter home to parents explaining what happened. Grief counselors were on campus Monday.

Such a sad story :(

If you, or anyone you know do anything that could be considered bullying, whether there is "that kid" in school who you occasionally make one little joke about for a laugh with your friends, just consider what an effect "jokes" like that might be having on their life. Just imagine something like this happening to that kid, and how guilty you would feel. Such a young life wasted because of ignorance like this.

RIP to him.

Aladdin

20-09-2011, 04:11 PM

DIS IS Y DERE SHUD B NO BULLYING

dis is tragic
R.I.P jamey!!

Circadia

20-09-2011, 04:33 PM

This is one thing that truly sickens me. I had a lump in my throat through out reading this, its so sad that a young life has been wasted just because people couldn't keep the trap shut and just let this boy be! I can't even fathom why people would want to do this to fellow students and I hope the people that bullied him forever feel guilty about making a boy commit suicide.

Judas

20-09-2011, 05:11 PM

AgnesIO

20-09-2011, 05:20 PM

lawrawrrr

20-09-2011, 05:35 PM

Bullies, in any shape or form, are disgusting to me. It's not a joke, and I know so many schools are 'trying' to put a stop to it, but the truth of the matter is, I really don't think a detention or w/e is enough to wipe it out!! And what about online, too??

As far as this individual goes, it's a huge shame, and a great loss. For him to reach out to one woman who was so inspirational to him obviously shows us how desperate he was. RIP.

Matthew

20-09-2011, 05:51 PM

What a shame. I hate it when I see bigger kids bullying little ones, or anyone bullying anyone for that matter. Luckily it doesn't appear to happen much at my school for various reasons though.

People just don't realise how much of an affect bullying someone can have :(.

dbgtz

20-09-2011, 05:53 PM

Bullying is wrong yes, I don't know what the USA are doing in their education system in terms of it but obviously it isn't being dealt with well. However, in my eyes, people like him are cowards.

beth

20-09-2011, 05:58 PM

as "uncaring" as it sounds, this is nothing new and is happening hundreds of times a day worldwide. just gonna name drop a charity i have raised a lot of money for here: www.mind.org.uk to anyone who is reading this story and sharing the pain he felt, there is always support.

RyRy

20-09-2011, 06:27 PM

Bullying is wrong yes, I don't know what the USA are doing in their education system in terms of it but obviously it isn't being dealt with well. However, in my eyes, people like him are cowards.

In my eyes, *REMOVED*

BUT THATS JUST MY OPINION, which will no doubt be moderated for being insulting lul... cuz calling someone who committed suicide a coward isnt. :')

Edited by Infectious (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not be rude!

lawrawrrr

20-09-2011, 06:28 PM

AgnesIO

20-09-2011, 06:32 PM

A coward???????? Do explain.

"A person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things."

Technically you COULD call someone who kills themselves a coward, according to the definition.

Having said that, clearly someone has (normally) been pushed really really far, and I can only begin to imagine what must be going through someones head as they kill themselves. However, you could call them a coward - not sure if it is appropriate though..

Judas

20-09-2011, 06:32 PM

Sickos bullying him. I hope the rest of their lives are as sad as they clearly made his.

A student at my local school hanged himself about 12 months ago - again due to bullying. People don't realise the affect it has on the victims.

I have never really been a bully as such, however will admit to "ribbing" a kid in my year for a while, but not like others would. I would never go out to hurt him or whatever, and we are actually friends now! I was bullied once by a kid a few years older than me, I just got fed up told the head teacher (that is how a year 8 rolls) and strangely enough, it stopped.

People need to speak out, and not let the bullies win.

But that's the kind of attitude that needs to stop, there is no reason why telling a teacher should be an embarrassing or weak thing to do.

And that is a horrible story, it is sad to hear how often it happens. And it makes me angry that these stories aren't exactly a secret, yet people continue anyway.

Bullying is wrong yes, I don't know what the USA are doing in their education system in terms of it but obviously it isn't being dealt with well. However, in my eyes, people like him are cowards.

I understand that view, and before I sometimes thought like that as well, but after knowing people who have been suicidal and self harmed etc I've come to realise that people getting depressed like this is a mental illness and not being supported in the right way can lead to things like this.

as "uncaring" as it sounds, this is nothing new and is happening hundreds of times a day worldwide. just gonna name drop a charity i have raised a lot of money for here: www.mind.org.uk to anyone who is reading this story and sharing the pain he felt, there is always support.

Obviously it's nothing new but that doesn't mean it's any less important or that stories like these shouldn't carry on being told, obviously awareness isn't high enough. Thank you for that link, I will be having a look at it.

lawrawrrr

20-09-2011, 06:36 PM

"A person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things."

Technically you COULD call someone who kills themselves a coward, according to the definition.

Having said that, clearly someone has (normally) been pushed really really far, and I can only begin to imagine what must be going through someones head as they kill themselves. However, you could call them a coward - not sure if it is appropriate though..

People who have got to the stage where they are even contemplating suicide have obviously endured for a long time, it's not a decision which comes lightly. It's more of a... last resort. When there is literally no light or positivity... It's not appropriate at all IMO.

AgnesIO

20-09-2011, 06:36 PM

But that's the kind of attitude that needs to stop, there is no reason why telling a teacher should be an embarrassing or weak thing to do.

And that is a horrible story, it is sad to hear how often it happens. And it makes me angry that these stories aren't exactly a secret, yet people continue anyway.

I understand that view, and before I sometimes thought like that as well, but after knowing people who have been suicidal and self harmed etc I've come to realise that people getting depressed like this is a mental illness and not being supported in the right way can lead to things like this.

Obviously it's nothing new but that doesn't mean it's any less important or that stories like these shouldn't carry on being told, obviously awareness isn't high enough. Thank you for that link, I will be having a look at it.

I totally agree, I personally think the stance on bullying is not strict enough, and if there is evidence against someone bullying another child in my opinion, I believe they should be suspended for a week. If they continue to do it, chuck them out. Not that my school barely EVER expels people, as it looks bad on the school.

---------- Post added 20-09-2011 at 07:38 PM ----------

People who have got to the stage where they are even contemplating suicide have obviously endured for a long time, it's not a decision which comes lightly. It's more of a... last resort. When there is literally no light or positivity... It's not appropriate at all IMO.

Different people will take different amounts of time to get pushed to that stage - not that it makes it right, or the person is weak. The fact anyone does get pushed to the side of even contemplating suicide is to be quite frank, disgusting.

Judas

20-09-2011, 06:38 PM

I just want to know how long things like these are going to have to happen for, for people to ACTUALLY do something. Not schools and celebrities etc just saying "stop bullying" or something, when it's the same old same old that doesn't actually do anything.

lawrawrrr

20-09-2011, 06:40 PM

Different people will take different amounts of time to get pushed to that stage - not that it makes it right, or the person is weak. The fact anyone does get pushed to the side of even contemplating suicide is to be quite frank, disgusting.

Agreed. I'm sorry, but if you (not you but people in general) are in the place of a bully, they can surely SEE when someone is getting that affected by their comments, and stop out of respect for another human being???

Stephen

20-09-2011, 06:43 PM

Sharon

20-09-2011, 06:43 PM

Agreed. I'm sorry, but if you (not you but people in general) are in the place of a bully, they can surely SEE when someone is getting that affected by their comments, and stop out of respect for another human being???

not really, some people don't fight back and try to actually keep their pride and not have a public breakdown at the first few comments

dbgtz

20-09-2011, 06:44 PM

In my eyes, *REMOVED*, come home & get their mum to sit on their face & then come on the internet to troll.

BUT THATS JUST MY OPINION, which will no doubt be moderated for being insulting lul... cuz calling someone who committed suicide a coward isnt. :')

I get my mum to sit on my face? *REMOVED*

Edited by Infectious (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not post to cause arguments!

AgnesIO

20-09-2011, 06:45 PM

Agreed. I'm sorry, but if you (not you but people in general) are in the place of a bully, they can surely SEE when someone is getting that affected by their comments, and stop out of respect for another human being???

You have to remember most bullies are too brain dead to work out someones feelings.

Judas

20-09-2011, 06:48 PM

not really, some people don't fight back and try to actually keep their pride and not have a public breakdown at the first few comments

Not at all. You know full well if you make fun of somebody and make nasty comments about them that you are trying to hurt them. And if you are at the brink of suicide I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to "keep your pride" and not react at all :rolleyes:

RyRy

20-09-2011, 06:50 PM

I get my mum to sit on my face? *REMOVED*

*REMOVED*

Edited by Infectious (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not post to cause arguments!

lawrawrrr

20-09-2011, 06:50 PM

not really, some people don't fight back and try to actually keep their pride and not have a public breakdown at the first few comments

Yeah, but then again, you're not going to kill yourself after a first few comments now...

I get my mum to sit on my face? *REMOVED*

Your opinion isn't trolling. Not being able to justify it doesn't exactly help though.

You have to remember most bullies are too brain dead to work out someones feelings.

Brain dead is a bit harsh... bullies are still people (and i'm not sticking up for them but yeah...) I suppose they just don't care....

Sharon

20-09-2011, 06:53 PM

Not at all. You know full well if you make fun of somebody and make nasty comments about them that you are trying to hurt them. And if you are at the brink of suicide I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to "keep your pride" and not react at all :rolleyes:

erm i never suggested that that applies to people who are going to commit suicide, it's a general comment and actually some people don't actually like to start crying and screaming at school that they're being bullied, however bad it is.

like marketing said, most bullies don't even have feeling and are too brain dead to realise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNumIY9D7uY it's 6 mins but worth the watch, kinda explains how peopel react to being bullied.

RyRy

20-09-2011, 06:54 PM

nee norr nee norr

Edited by Infectious (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not make pointless posts!

AgnesIO

20-09-2011, 06:55 PM

Yeah, but then again, you're not going to kill yourself after a first few comments now...

Your opinion isn't trolling. Not being able to justify it doesn't exactly help though.

Brain dead is a bit harsh... bullies are still people (and i'm not sticking up for them but yeah...) I suppose they just don't care....

*most

If someone is too stupid to realise they are hurting someone (whether that be physically, verbally or mentally), they are either completely screwed up or do realise what they are doing.

In that case they are scum.

lawrawrrr

20-09-2011, 06:58 PM

*most

If someone is too stupid to realise they are hurting someone (whether that be physically, verbally or mentally), they are either completely screwed up or do realise what they are doing.

In that case they are scum.

You'd think that... doesn't make them stop. (speaking from experience). They just don't care if they hurt someone else.

It makes you wonder... do the bullies that bullied this boy actually feel remorse now they've seen what they drove him to? Would any person feel it if it were them???

Judas

20-09-2011, 06:58 PM

erm i never suggested that that applies to people who are going to commit suicide, it's a general comment and actually some people don't actually like to start crying and screaming at school that they're being bullied, however bad it is.

like marketing said, most bullies don't even have feeling and are too brain dead to realise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNumIY9D7uY it's 6 mins but worth the watch, kinda explains how peopel react to being bullied.

Well seeing as the post you quoted Laura in was talking about how you would be able to see someone getting affected to the point of suicide (not "the first few comments"), and that's what the topic of this thread is, I thought it would be slightly appropriate to lean the conversation in that direction.

dbgtz

20-09-2011, 06:58 PM

*REMOVED*

I don't even understand this so...

Your opinion isn't trolling. Not being able to justify it doesn't exactly help though.

The Marketing guy pretty much explains it, but it's how they "run" so quick, yet so many people go through much bigger **** and they don't feel the need to top themselves.

AgnesIO

20-09-2011, 06:59 PM

You'd think that... doesn't make them stop. (speaking from experience). They just don't care if they hurt someone else.

It makes you wonder... do the bullies that bullied this boy actually feel remorse now they've seen what they drove him to? Would any person feel it if it were them???

Depends if they do it more to impress, or if they are just scum I guess

RyRy

20-09-2011, 07:00 PM

I don't even understand this so...

The Marketing guy pretty much explains it, but it's how they "run" so quick, yet so many people go through much bigger **** and they don't feel the need to top themselves.

*REMOVED*

Edited by Infectious (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not post to cause arguments!

Judas

20-09-2011, 07:01 PM

Apparently his last Facebook status was "Don't forget me when I come crying to heaven's door" which is a line from a Lady Gaga song... This is so sad :(

The Marketing guy pretty much explains it, but it's how they "run" so quick, yet so many people go through much bigger **** and they don't feel the need to top themselves.

Because some are emotionally weaker than others? Especially if you are being bullied for something that you are already insecure and sensitive about. I thought this was common knowledge but obviously this ignorance still exists :rolleyes: Can I ask if you have ever bullied someone before?

lawrawrrr

20-09-2011, 07:04 PM

The Marketing guy pretty much explains it, but it's how they "run" so quick, yet so many people go through much bigger **** and they don't feel the need to top themselves.

SO QUICK? Like I've said... it's not like one comment *OH KILLS SELF*. For example, maybe someone loses a family member and feels the need to commit suicide, but if another individual has gone through YEARS of bullying and cyber bullying, it might actually make up to the same "trauma level" if you get what I mean. When you get to the stage that you literally cannot put up with any more **** in your life... when every day you wake up wondering if it's worth opening your eyes? It doesn't matter why you're in that place - just that you are, and I don't think that calling a suicidal person a coward is really the best word to use.

Depends if they do it more to impress, or if they are just scum I guess

People who bully due to peer pressure... that's horrible.

dbgtz

20-09-2011, 07:09 PM

think its worth you going back to school then

*REMOVED*

Apparently his last Facebook status was "Don't forget me when I come crying to heaven's door" which is a line from a Lady Gaga song... This is so sad :(

Because some are emotionally weaker than others? Especially if you are being bullied for something that you are already insecure and sensitive about. I thought this was common knowledge but obviously this ignorance still exists :rolleyes: Can I ask if you have ever bullied someone before?

No, I'm a very neutral person. I have been bullied about my spine problems yet I haven't topped myself.

SO QUICK? Like I've said... it's not like one comment *OH KILLS SELF*. For example, maybe someone loses a family member and feels the need to commit suicide, but if another individual has gone through YEARS of bullying and cyber bullying, it might actually make up to the same "trauma level" if you get what I mean. When you get to the stage that you literally cannot put up with any more **** in your life... when every day you wake up wondering if it's worth opening your eyes? It doesn't matter why you're in that place - just that you are, and I don't think that calling a suicidal person a coward is really the best word to use.

There's alternatives to just killing yourself to sort bullying. Maybe you're right at how coward isn't the best word, but it's the closest I can think of.

Edited by Infectious (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not post to cause arguments!

lawrawrrr

20-09-2011, 07:13 PM

There's alternatives to just killing yourself to sort bullying. Maybe you're right at how coward isn't the best word, but it's the closest I can think of.

It's not to sort it at all! If you've been bullied enough to want to kill yourself, then it's because you can't put up with it any longer, how else can you sort it out? Even if you suggest calling things like Samaritans or etc, then sometimes they don't even work 'cos a person is so set on their decision.

There is a difference between being bullied and being bullied to the point of no return though. I think most people on the planet have been bullied at one point in their lives tbh.

beth

20-09-2011, 07:19 PM

teen suicide isn't cowardly as such, but it is silly. regardless of what someone is going through. yr so young, and so much can happen and how do you know it's not going to get better? if the person is mentally unsound then obviously that theory is defunct. but i would imagine a large quantity of teen suicides are cries for help gone wrong.

self-harm is a completely different thing. without being offensive to anyone, it's been glamorized and trivialized to the point where it's a joke.

"bullied to the point of no return" you get up, you move on, you get on with it.

FlyingJesus

20-09-2011, 07:22 PM

dbgtz

20-09-2011, 07:22 PM

It's not to sort it at all! If you've been bullied enough to want to kill yourself, then it's because you can't put up with it any longer, how else can you sort it out? Even if you suggest calling things like Samaritans or etc, then sometimes they don't even work 'cos a person is so set on their decision.

There is a difference between being bullied and being bullied to the point of no return though. I think most people on the planet have been bullied at one point in their lives tbh.

They can move schools and if it gets to a horrid point they can get home schooled. If there are home issues then social services involved. There is always a solution.

Judas

20-09-2011, 07:25 PM

[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]No, I'm a very neutral person. I have been bullied about my spine problems yet I haven't topped myself.

Then how can't you understand there are different cases and levels of bullying, some far more severe than others? And good one on ignoring my previous point that some are emotionally weaker than other people :)

teen suicide isn't cowardly as such, but it is silly. regardless of what someone is going through. yr so young, and so much can happen and how do you know it's not going to get better? if the person is mentally unsound then obviously that theory is defunct. but i would imagine a large quantity of teen suicides are cries for help gone wrong.

self-harm is a completely different thing. without being offensive to anyone, it's been glamorized and trivialized to the point where it's a joke.

"bullied to the point of no return" you get up, you move on, you get on with it.

I'd think that anyone who self harms or tries to kill themselves are mentally unstable... And I wouldn't say that this case was a "cry for help gone wrong" as he hung himself and clearly intended to die.

But I do agree that cutting yourself etc has become glamorized etc and it is absolutely ridiculous and disgusting and needs to stop.

lawrawrrr

20-09-2011, 07:25 PM

They can move schools and if it gets to a horrid point they can get home schooled. If there are home issues then social services involved. There is always a solution.

a) that's assuming it's a school issue... and that involves moving away from friends etc. It's also difficult for some children (and adults, for that matter) to share what they're going through.

b) if it's at home, social services don't actually do much because you can't prove verbal abuse or subtle bullying....

Metric1

20-09-2011, 07:32 PM

Judas

20-09-2011, 07:43 PM

I am not by all means saying this kid deserved it BUT he did ask to be bullied. I went to public school in New York and they aren't a place you go to "stand out". If you get bullied for doing something, you stop it or it will continue and turn violent. It was like this where I went to school, I went to a NICE school.. Buffalo.. that place is no joke.

So you're saying that instead of eliminating bullying in schools we should all be encouraged to hide who we are and force ourselves to be somebody different so that we can fit in with people we may not actually like?

beth

20-09-2011, 07:43 PM

Then how can't you understand there are different cases and levels of bullying, some far more severe than others? And good one on ignoring my previous point that some are emotionally weaker than other people :)

I'd think that anyone who self harms or tries to kill themselves are mentally unstable... And I wouldn't say that this case was a "cry for help gone wrong" as he hung himself and clearly intended to die.

But I do agree that cutting yourself etc has become glamorized etc and it is absolutely ridiculous and disgusting and needs to stop.

the bolded parts i disagree with. i know so many people who have cut themselves in the past because they think it's a way of getting attention or at one point of my life, fitting in with a clique (like 2004 when it was cool to listen to my chemical romance and have a messy history of self-harm). some people that self-harm have no intention of ever killing themselves.

at the second part, you will never know for sure. the message about gaga on his twitter is very cry for help basically saying "i'm going to kill myself". there was no note, which is usually a tell-tale sign that someone WANTED to finish their life as such.

ALSO; no-one should ever say someone "asked" to be bullied, but some people do encourage bullying by the way they react. i would definitely say if you can't handle the recognition that being different gains, then don't go there.

dbgtz

20-09-2011, 07:44 PM

Then how can't you understand there are different cases and levels of bullying, some far more severe than others? And good one on ignoring my previous point that some are emotionally weaker than other people :)

I can understand different levels of bullying. I watch the world and I see bullying happen and I see the weak and the strong. I have seen someone who is emotionally weak put through all of his bullying, I mean he never really had friends but he pushed through the days. Emotionally weak does not correspond with suicide in my book and, to be honest, if they have the ability to hide their emotions does that not show strength rather then weakness?

a) that's assuming it's a school issue... and that involves moving away from friends etc. It's also difficult for some children (and adults, for that matter) to share what they're going through.

b) if it's at home, social services don't actually do much because you can't prove verbal abuse or subtle bullying....

Fair enough. However in my book, there is a solution to everything but I can't think of much at this time as I'm pretty tired.

Judas

20-09-2011, 07:48 PM

the bolded parts i disagree with. i know so many people who have cut themselves in the past because they think it's a way of getting attention or at one point of my life, fitting in with a clique (like 2004 when it was cool to listen to my chemical romance and have a messy history of self-harm). some people that self-harm have no intention of ever killing themselves.

at the second part, you will never know for sure. the message about gaga on his twitter is very cry for help basically saying "i'm going to kill myself". there was no note, which is usually a tell-tale sign that someone WANTED to finish their life as such.

ALSO; no-one should ever say someone "asked" to be bullied, but some people do encourage bullying by the way they react. i would definitely say if you can't handle the recognition that being different gains, then don't go there.

Well I'd consider people like that crazy but perhaps not mental, so what you said is true I suppose but meh. It's difficult.

So you think that he went to the bottom of his garden and hung himself, and may not have wanted to die? I'm fairly sure he did.

Grig

20-09-2011, 07:51 PM

nee nor nee nor fry what are you on?!

Anyway, I think people forget that the mentality of many school systems is prejudice to "fitting in" and you get judged in school. It's different when you go onto Uni, but in school it's like a gang they accept you or they don't. I've seen it happen first hand on numerous occasions.

P.S: This is off-topic but Lady GaGa is becoming over-rated, taking things to the extremes and doing less than spreading the message of being yourself. If wearing a paper bag over your head is being yourself, then okay go for it. Sorry to say...

Sharon

20-09-2011, 07:52 PM

right i'm going to be brave and post what i actually think

harry i love you and everything but i'm just gonna put it out there that i think that you partly care about this so much because it's related to gaga.

Judas

20-09-2011, 07:52 PM

I can understand different levels of bullying. I watch the world and I see bullying happen and I see the weak and the strong. I have seen someone who is emotionally weak put through all of his bullying, I mean he never really had friends but he pushed through the days. Emotionally weak does not correspond with suicide in my book and, to be honest, if they have the ability to hide their emotions does that not show strength rather then weakness?

Well then you obviously can't understand the different levels that well if you can't understand that this one boy you have used as an example isn't the weakest person on the planet. Open your mind a little.

right i'm going to be brave and post what i actually think

harry i love you and everything but i'm just gonna put it out there that i think that you partly care about this so much because it's related to gaga.

I've only heard about it because it was related to Gaga, true, but also because my 12 year old sister has recently been going through phases of self-harming and stuff so yeah... Even if that was the case, why is that a bad thing that a public figure had made me want to speak out against bullies?

Grig

20-09-2011, 07:56 PM

Well then you obviously can't understand the different levels that well if you can't understand that this one boy you have used as an example isn't the weakest person on the planet. Open your mind a little.

I've only heard about it because it was related to Gaga, true, but also because my 12 year old sister has recently been going through phases of self-harming and stuff so yeah... Even if that was the case, why is that a bad thing that a public figure had made me want to speak out against bullies?

I disagree, it's all about the psychological standpoint here, people are different. Some are strong, others are weaker and perceptive and vulnerable to it. Some deal with it in the form of counseling, some feel there is no point in living and have suicide all people are different and I think that it quite a rounded-winded way was what dgbtz was trying to say. Plus the extras on the fact that the emotionally weak do hide it and then it builds up to suicide.

Judas

20-09-2011, 07:58 PM

I disagree, it's all about the psychological standpoint here, people are different. Some are strong, others are weaker and perceptive and vulnerable to it. Some deal with it in the form of counseling, some feel there is no point in living and have suicide all people are different and I think that it quite a rounded-winded way was what dgbtz was trying to say.

Exactly, some people are different. Which is what I said? Don't see how you are disagreeing with me here?

-:Undertaker:-

20-09-2011, 07:58 PM

What a sad result concerning his suicide coupled with the sad and creepy celebrity cult of Lady Gaga as shown by his tweets.

Grig

20-09-2011, 08:00 PM

Exactly, some people are different. Which is what I said? Don't see how you are disagreeing with me here?

Yes, my apologies then what you did say. However, on that note, all people are different so there is no right or wrong here.

dbgtz

20-09-2011, 08:02 PM

Well then you obviously can't understand the different levels that well if you can't understand that this one boy you have used as an example isn't the weakest person on the planet. Open your mind a little.

I never said he was? I was saying how he's had lots of **** and by the logic gathered from this thread more **** = more unstable. You're telling me to open my mind, yet you don't seem to consider the fact suicide is the easy way out and cowardly therefore completely ignore my opinion.

Judas

20-09-2011, 08:05 PM

I never said he was? I was saying how he's had lots of **** and by the logic gathered from this thread more **** = more unstable. You're telling me to open my mind, yet you don't seem to consider the fact suicide is the easy way out and cowardly therefore completely ignore my opinion.

What about the part where I said I understand why some might believe that suicide is a cowardly thing to do? Once again ignoring what I have already said to try and make your point seem more valid. |-)

Sharon

20-09-2011, 08:07 PM

can everyone stop like totally teaming on dbgtz please he's really fragile :(

i never included this in my post but, RIP to the person.

Stephen

20-09-2011, 08:07 PM

It saddens me how little people actually understand about mental problems. Not everyone kills themself when they get bullied but that doesn't make survivors any better/braver/stronger people - it's not simply a case of "get over it" and that ignorant attitude is why so many people go on with their problems ignored and building up.

this

Tbh I don't think anyone can understand mental problems properly unless they've experienced them. The crap that some people post about it is unbelievably ******ed sometimes

Grig

20-09-2011, 08:07 PM

I never said he was? I was saying how he's had lots of **** and by the logic gathered from this thread more **** = more unstable. You're telling me to open my mind, yet you don't seem to consider the fact suicide is the easy way out and cowardly therefore completely ignore my opinion.

I agree, it is simply that way put. I would like you to find another word in the lexicon to replace "cowardly" with, because facing the trauma is for people who are strong enough. Cowardly can be replaced with mentally weaker, degenerated etc. So I see know problem with what dbgtz is saying.

MKR&*42

20-09-2011, 08:09 PM

Wow...Those bullies, literally have no soul :S

This reminded me of the megan mayer story - that story shocked me as well, because I thought it was sickening. And it's quite similar to this 1, the boy turned to media for help and when no-one else would pay attention, he just wanted his idol to help him get through it ;/ .

Lady GaGa is an inspiration to many people, because she's very supportive of gays and will stand up for what she believes in, I reckon when or if she ever see's this - she'll realise what an impact she's having on some people.

And in regards to bullying in general, I used to get bullied a lot, and ended up suicidal like this person ;/ , the only thing that really got me through it was God (my idol) - so I guess idols do have quite big impact on people, Also there's always 1 phrase I remembered to do with bullying.

"Physical bullying, punching, kicking, scars can last 1 week, 1 month, 1 year - but emotional bullying with words will stay locked in the mind forever".

R.I.P To Him <3

Judas

20-09-2011, 08:15 PM

dbgtz

20-09-2011, 08:18 PM

What about the part where I said I understand why some might believe that suicide is a cowardly thing to do? Once again ignoring what I have already said to try and make your point seem more valid. |-)

Why might I think this then? Also not gonna lie, I just didn't realise you posted that, I forgot.

I agree, it is simply that way put. I would like you to find another word in the lexicon to replace "cowardly" with, because facing the trauma is for people who are strong enough. Cowardly can be replaced with mentally weaker, degenerated etc. So I see know problem with what dbgtz is saying.

Not sure what the last sentence is meant to be, but to say that someone who commits suicide is "mentally weaker" is just not right in my book as surely they have the strength to choose to kill themselves, but that is again just opinion.

Judas

20-09-2011, 08:21 PM

Why might I think this then? Also not gonna lie, I just didn't realise you posted that, I forgot.

Convenient. And because you fail to realise that some people cannot cope with their life and simply feel they have nothing to live for. But I'm done with you now, you clearly have so much ignorance inside of you that I'm not going to change, but I hope you can stop being so foolish one day.

dbgtz

20-09-2011, 08:27 PM

Convenient. And because you fail to realise that some people cannot cope with their life and simply feel they have nothing to live for. But I'm done with you now, you clearly have so much ignorance inside of you that I'm not going to change, but I hope you can stop being so foolish one day.

So clearly you go against the whole point of you saying "open your mind" when you cannot understand my views, and then call me ignorant?

Judas

20-09-2011, 08:38 PM

So clearly you go against the whole point of you saying "open your mind" when you cannot understand my views, and then call me ignorant?

What about the part where I said I understand why some might believe that suicide is a cowardly thing to do? Once again ignoring what I have already said to try and make your point seem more valid. |-)

I can understand your views even if I think they are ridiculous and stupid, you are completely ignorant of mine and others in this thread. Done with you, don't bother responding because we clearly have differing opinions that will not be changing, so I'm done trying to deal with your ignorance.

dbgtz

20-09-2011, 08:40 PM

I can understand your views even if I think they are ridiculous and stupid, you are completely ignorant of mine and others in this thread. Done with you, don't bother responding because we clearly have differing opinions that will not be changing, so I'm done trying to deal with your ignorance.

"because you fail to realise that some people cannot cope with their life and simply feel they have nothing to live for" is not understanding my opinion. You're just going because you know I'm right (about the ignorance thing, not the suicide thing).

Stephen

20-09-2011, 08:52 PM

holy crap shut the hell up

Edited by Infectious (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not make pointless posts!

Accipiter

20-09-2011, 09:00 PM

We live in the fear of death, but when death is, we are not, when we are death is not. It is more wise to fear birth.

I agree with this, death or, in other words, not existing, is always easier than living. It's why our lives are filled with fantasies and stories to get us seemingly out of the hell we live in and into a world of happiness or easy understanding.

Of course, we can not call this man a coward, as we have people in our army (tend to be unreported) that commit suicide, because of the harassment they get off their squadron or their leaders.

A man can give his life up for his country, but when you belittle a man you give him nothing to live for, and nothing to fight for.

FlyingJesus

20-09-2011, 09:05 PM

That quote is stupid as hell

Accipiter

20-09-2011, 09:06 PM

I disagree, matter of opinion.

Chippiewill

20-09-2011, 09:10 PM

Not to say that bullying is a good, ok or right thing. However I do not believe it to be the major cause here - it may be the trigger, however this is far more likely the result of neglect of mental health on the part of the parents, the school and american society as a whole, unfortunately keeping an eye on something such as that is actually a very difficult task with some people (Often frustration is bottled up), such as in this case he used the internet as an outlet which meant the normal outlets (Anti-social behaviour, outward depression etc.) would have had a great drop in severity so it would be very difficult to spot that it wasn't just a case of bullying.

GommeInc

20-09-2011, 09:13 PM

dbgtz

20-09-2011, 09:20 PM

holy crap shut the hell up

No? I have the right to free speech and I am defending my views. You just post and hope people like you.

Stephen

20-09-2011, 09:24 PM

Woah don't cry

Edited by Infectious (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not make pointless posts!

Judas

20-09-2011, 09:26 PM

dbgtz

20-09-2011, 09:31 PM

How terrible to see someone commit suicide over bullying. To be pushed to that extreme is an awful thing to read and must be horrible for anyone involved personally with him. I hope the bullies learn to grow some testicles, if not have at least lost them. How anyone can bully someone over something so petty, and to an individual that seems harmless is beyond me. I think the real cowards are the bullies, ones that gang up on an individual because they're too small and stupid to do it one by one.

Agreed. Although, I never really understood why bullies are called cowards, to a certain extent they can be as the reason they bully is so that they don't have to face the bullies themselves, but most of them are just do not care for anyone but themselves.

Woah don't cry

Says the one who cried telling me to shut the hell up.

Special

20-09-2011, 09:52 PM

hate story's like this they're so sad. i hope the bully's have an disappointing, lonely life ahead of them

GommeInc

20-09-2011, 09:58 PM

Agreed. Although, I never really understood why bullies are called cowards, to a certain extent they can be as the reason they bully is so that they don't have to face the bullies themselves, but most of them are just do not care for anyone but themselves.
Depends what type of bully I guess. The ones that gang up seem to be cowards as they have to gang up, but the ones that go it alone seem more dumb and selfish than cowardly. I think to call the boy a coward is a bit harsh, though (not directed at you). Some people can be pushed to the extreme and want to be released from depression, while some will just bite the bullet and ignore them or get on with life - in this case he must of been really upset. It sounds as though he was lonely, which is more depressing than someone with at least a few friends :/

Catzsy

21-09-2011, 09:55 AM

Accessibilty to instant mass communication has it's upsides but this is one of it's definite downsides.
When people gang up on a person and bully them this way there is just nowhere to go. Suicide because of mass bullying is not an uncommon thing, now, and what I don't understand is the lack of EQ by the people doing it. It's as if they feel that it is not the 'real world' and there is no actual person with feelings at the keyboard. I am sure that the majority of people who do it are the actual cowards as they would not do it face -to -face with anybody as they would not have the 'balls' to. An easy way to bully by weak minded people. I cannot see that anybody who commits suicide is a 'coward'. This is quite a niave remark to make. They must be at the end of their tether to do this. RIP.

beth

21-09-2011, 11:43 AM

I agree with this, death or, in other words, not existing, is always easier than living. It's why our lives are filled with fantasies and stories to get us seemingly out of the hell we live in and into a world of happiness or easy understanding.

Of course, we can not call this man a coward, as we have people in our army (tend to be unreported) that commit suicide, because of the harassment they get off their squadron or their leaders.

A man can give his life up for his country, but when you belittle a man you give him nothing to live for, and nothing to fight for.

That quote is stupid as hell

completely agree, what a bizarre quote.

HawtNerd

21-09-2011, 12:21 PM

R.I.P Jamey.

Forever loved... Forever missed... <3

CaptainAce$$

21-09-2011, 12:28 PM

I can totally understand this because I have been in the same situation myself and even considered suicide at one point. It's a lonely place to be. It's easy for people to say ignore or tell a teacher however it's not as easy as you would imagine. If you ignore, the bullies bully you more. If you tell a teacher, they don't listen and don't believe you. Bullies mock and taunt you behind the teachers back. Teachers don't have a clue what has been going on and therefore you are seen as the bully when you finally snap and react. I've been bullied all of my school life for only one reason: I have aspergers. It's a sad and cruel world out there.
Spirit

Accipiter

21-09-2011, 12:31 PM

completely agree, what a bizarre quote.

If you were born into a living hell, from not being in existence, to being brought into a world that has taught you pain, sadness, fear & loneliness. Then you take away what birth gave you, the worst gift ever given to you, life, for the state of not existing again.

Because in a life where the only things taught to you are that, the best time of your life is the time you can't remember. So you welcome death because it takes from you the gift that gave you hell.

I personally think the quote is accurate, it was from a Greek philosopher Epicurus apart from the last bit, which is from a film that adds this onto what Epicurus said, which I still believe is true.

Epicurus merely said:

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

All it merely states is that we fear something we cannot control, so it is pointless to fear death and more wise to fear birth because birth gives you these fears.

HawtNerd

21-09-2011, 01:05 PM

So stupid these days.. Bullying's gotten way to out of hand...And now that our society is getting much more well. !@#@'ed up... It's gonna get worse and worse

danzooo

21-09-2011, 01:16 PM

The speculation in this thread is unreal. How do you all know that this story is how it seems? Granted, a young life was taken at the end of the day which is sad, but how do you all know that he wasn't an attention seeking little **** that asked for it? If he was getting bullied so much for "wearing Lady Gaga t-shirts to school every day", why didn't he stop wearing them?

I'm not trying to be pedantic or rude but as the saying goes, there's two sides to every story.

R.I.P anyway though, pal. Such a young life lost is a tragedy.

HawtNerd

21-09-2011, 01:20 PM

danzooo

21-09-2011, 01:25 PM

Why would he stop wearing them? And have them control his life? He stood proud to what he was symbolizing.

If something, something that you have control over in your life, is facilitating something as serious as bullying, and to the extent that it causes you to contemplate suicide, you would stop it.

If you wore pink Crocs to school once, and everyone teased you for a couple of days then stopped, then that would be fine. But if you wore them every day, and people sent you hate mail and teased you really badly every day for wearing them... why would you continue wearing them? :S

HawtNerd

21-09-2011, 01:31 PM

If something, something that you have control over in your life, is facilitating something as serious as bullying, and to the extent that it causes you to contemplate suicide, you would stop it.

If you wore pink Crocs to school once, and everyone teased you for a couple of days then stopped, then that would be fine. But if you wore them every day, and people sent you hate mail and teased you really badly every day for wearing them... why would you continue wearing them? :S

You have a point but still. I'm just going by the fact of "Never listen to the bully" ... Be the bigger man right? Live your life the way YOU want to. Sure enough, most can't handle to much hate mail. But still.. If I wore croc's and was bothered enough to take them off. I'd wear them, but that's me...

to young to die.... R.I.P

Slowpoke

21-09-2011, 01:32 PM

Bullying is wrong yes, I don't know what the USA are doing in their education system in terms of it but obviously it isn't being dealt with well. However, in my eyes, people like him are cowards.

What a misinformed statement that is. Killing yourself because bullies are making your life a living misery isn't cowardly, at all. He clearly had no-one to turn to, have you actually read the quoted tweets? Every suicide is different and not all suicides are cowardly, at all. To be honest I'd never call any suicides cowardly. I think they're tragic and desperate.

Stephen

21-09-2011, 03:17 PM

If something, something that you have control over in your life, is facilitating something as serious as bullying, and to the extent that it causes you to contemplate suicide, you would stop it.

If you wore pink Crocs to school once, and everyone teased you for a couple of days then stopped, then that would be fine. But if you wore them every day, and people sent you hate mail and teased you really badly every day for wearing them... why would you continue wearing them? :S

Do you really think if he stopped wearing them, they'd leave him alone? They obviously weren't bullying him just because of the shirts, that was just one of the things that they could use to bully him.

HawtNerd

21-09-2011, 04:23 PM

Exactly ... ^

Metric1

21-09-2011, 04:42 PM

So you're saying that instead of eliminating bullying in schools we should all be encouraged to hide who we are and force ourselves to be somebody different so that we can fit in with people we may not actually like?

You gotta do what you gotta do to survive.

Judas

21-09-2011, 10:32 PM

Update: Lady Gaga is going to meet with the President to discuss the creation of a new law that will make bullying illegal.

The past days I've spent reflecting, crying, and yelling. I have so much anger. It is hard to feel love when cruelty takes someones life.

Jamey Rodemeyer, 14 yrs old, took his life because of bullying. http://tinyurl.com/6e7n49s. Bullying must become be illegal. It is a hate crime.

I am meeting with our President. I will not stop fighting. This must end. Our generation has the power to end it. Trend it #MakeALawForJamey

@ladygaga (http://twitter.com/#!/ladygaga)

You gotta do what you gotta do to survive.

But do you not think it would be better if that kind of awful attitude towards bullying was just abolished completely? It's not acceptable.

The speculation in this thread is unreal. How do you all know that this story is how it seems? Granted, a young life was taken at the end of the day which is sad, but how do you all know that he wasn't an attention seeking little **** that asked for it? If he was getting bullied so much for "wearing Lady Gaga t-shirts to school every day", why didn't he stop wearing them?

I'm not trying to be pedantic or rude but as the saying goes, there's two sides to every story.

R.I.P anyway though, pal. Such a young life lost is a tragedy.

It wasn't just the shirts you fool it was mainly because of his sexuality, but also because all of his friends were girls and he wore Gaga+Paramore shirts, so people made fun of him.

FlyingJesus

21-09-2011, 10:36 PM

You can't make bullying illegal, it's impossible to regulate that steadily. Gaga just loves to think of herself as a fighter for the little guy, when really she just spouts nonsense. "Love yourself whoever/whatever you are" ok cool what if I was born to bully people cheers for your support Gaga

Judas

21-09-2011, 10:51 PM

Obviously bullying will never completely be eradicated but clearly something has to be done. And obviously nothing thus far has worked, as cases like these are happening far too regularly, so if you have to aim for extreme targets like she is doing, then why not? "Aim for the sky and you'll reach the ceiling, aim for the ceiling and you'll stay on the floor."

And no one was "born to bully" don't even say such ridiculous things lol. It's about tolerance levels, and something needs to happen to ACTUALLY raise the awareness, not these petty little campaigns that come and go in schools and do **** all.

FlyingJesus

21-09-2011, 11:07 PM

No-one was born to be an utter freak either but Gaga seems to believe that we're somehow created with personalities already there, so if that's true it logically follows that some were born to do bad things

beth

21-09-2011, 11:15 PM

how can you make bullying illegal? ha. i love gaga but sometimes she spouts such crap. we all bully someone at some point of our life, it's human nature. i do think some people are born to have a social status than others and whether that leads to bullying the people of a lower social status or not, i dunno.

Metric1

22-09-2011, 04:22 AM

It would be next to impossible to abolish bullying in schools, you may think you're getting rid of it but the truth is you're just driving it underground. If you don't want to be bullied, don't do stuff that fuels the fire.

dbgtz

23-09-2011, 07:42 PM

bullying = harassment = illegal? I always thought it was that...

Sharon

23-09-2011, 07:55 PM

Stephen

23-09-2011, 08:07 PM

i swear a few days ago you tweeted saying good that she was going to meet him

Cerys

23-09-2011, 08:17 PM

It's sickening what some people do to others.. there's too many incidents like this. People who bully must have something wrong with them to basically force people in extreme situations to commit suicide.. :l

Sharon

23-09-2011, 08:25 PM

i swear a few days ago you tweeted saying good that she was going to meet him

i re-read the article ok

Judas

23-09-2011, 10:26 PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/sep/23/lady-gaga-obama-bullying?newsfeed=true

what good is that even going to do... except boost her ago as obama will just do something cos she asked.

think about how many people protest and campaign against bullying, do you see obama meeting them? once again using her status to try and "do something"

I can't believe you think that it is a bad thing that someone is using their power and influence to try and make positive changes to the world? What on earth?

GommeInc

24-09-2011, 05:37 PM

I can't believe you think that it is a bad thing that someone is using their power and influence to try and make positive changes to the world? What on earth?
It is a bit pointless. No law on bullying should ever exist. Making laws on vagueness is never a good idea. If anything, the law would just be there as window dressing for a brothel - makes the people outside feel comfortable it's there, but the facts still remain :P Bullying would be hard to enforce, though the authorities in the US seem to of done a very lousy job at protecting the boy and stopping the bullying.

Showder

25-09-2011, 09:49 AM

Bullies are one people who are insecure and lost in life.
I believe that bullying has taken a leap in the generation , with the opening of technologies and computer , which makes bullies easy to come , hard to end , and a learning.

Accipiter

25-09-2011, 10:50 AM

Putting a law on bullying is like putting a law on nature, its life, it's survival of the fittest.

Judas

25-09-2011, 12:33 PM

It is a bit pointless. No law on bullying should ever exist. Making laws on vagueness is never a good idea. If anything, the law would just be there as window dressing for a brothel - makes the people outside feel comfortable it's there, but the facts still remain :P Bullying would be hard to enforce, though the authorities in the US seem to of done a very lousy job at protecting the boy and stopping the bullying.

Yes I agree that making a law is basically not going to happen as it would probably just fall under harassment, but you can't really charge a kid with harassment, so who knows, maybe she meant something slightly more different and complicated that she can't explain in 140 characters? Or her and Obama could work together to come up with something that would make schools crack down harder to try and put a stop to it, I don't know.

I just find it laughable that people are complaining about her trying to make a difference. Whether you think her plans are far-fetched or not you cannot dismiss her efforts and ambitions to make make positive changes to the world.

GommeInc

25-09-2011, 10:16 PM

I just find it laughable that people are complaining about her trying to make a difference. Whether you think her plans are far-fetched or not you cannot dismiss her efforts and ambitions to make make positive changes to the world.
Oh I agree :) What she's doing is promoting awareness against bullying. It's admirable for anyone to make the effects of bullying and what it can do aware to the Government and the public. She's asking a bit too much (or her followers are) to ban bullying, because bullying by definition isn't a desirable quality. The best anyone can do is to ask teachers and parents to be vigilant, because a law on bullying is a waste of time. They could just argue changes to existing legislation, like the harassment laws you've mentioned, though enforcement will still be difficult :P

Judas

25-09-2011, 10:19 PM

Oh I agree :) What she's doing is promoting awareness against bullying. It's admirable for anyone to make the effects of bullying and what it can do aware to the Government and the public. She's asking a bit too much (or her followers are) to ban bullying, because bullying by definition isn't a desirable quality. The best anyone can do is to ask teachers and parents to be vigilant, because a law on bullying is a waste of time. They could just argue changes to existing legislation, like the harassment laws you've mentioned, though enforcement will still be difficult :P

In the first part of my post you will notice that I did say that making a whole law is a bit out of reach.

There's always a mountain to climb when trying to overcome big problems like these, but nothing ever got done because someone decided it would be too difficult.

-:Undertaker:-

25-09-2011, 10:37 PM

Catzsy

26-09-2011, 08:28 AM

A ban on 'bullying' which is a vague term anyway by the government would be sinister in my eyes, the only people who can stop bullying are teachers through proper discipline in schools - something I doubt I can call Lady Gaga a fellow team player in advancing.

How does proper discipline by teachers stop bullying? I agree that discipline is lax because of over zealous interpretations usually by local education authorities. Teachers should feel empowered to be able to deal properly with situations but are often hampered by school governors who perhaps are not the best people to deal with the situation. It is only a part of the problem though and needs a huge shift in public opinion and parents not to dismiss the problem so lightly.

J0SH

26-09-2011, 09:04 AM

Sad story, R.I.P. Kiddo

karter

26-09-2011, 10:51 AM

Indeed sad. Cyber bullying is really horrible.. I knew some people who had made a facebook event on this guy and were constantly bullying him..

Those who call these people cowards have sure bullied others in school and will obviously, never know how it feels.

RIP

GommeInc

26-09-2011, 01:54 PM

How does proper discipline by teachers stop bullying? I agree that discipline is lax because of over zealous interpretations usually by local education authorities. Teachers should feel empowered to be able to deal properly with situations but are often hampered by school governors who perhaps are not the best people to deal with the situation. It is only a part of the problem though and needs a huge shift in public opinion and parents not to dismiss the problem so lightly.
In a way teachers are more involved with the children. Although I agree with you that the lack of discipline a teacher can dish out is only one part of the problem, I think teachers are incredibly important in teaching children and teenagers how to respect one another, and to help children who are bullied to "tell all" and to give them support, advice and then deal with the bullies. Afterall, children are at school most of the time during the day, and the bullies may learn more about their victims and indeed bully at their hardest during school ours. Outside of school, the public must take over including parents and/or guardians. I guess it depends on environment. Teachers teach in an educational environment, therefore they have a responsibility to teach and advise inside school, while parents have a unique way of teaching - if at all, if the family is broken.

Judas

26-09-2011, 04:29 PM

A ban on 'bullying' which is a vague term anyway by the government would be sinister in my eyes, the only people who can stop bullying are teachers through proper discipline in schools - something I doubt I can call Lady Gaga a fellow team player in advancing.

At least she is calling for something to be done and aiming for the top to help.

Anyway, Lady Gaga aside, when will the schools actually start to make a change? I think they need to implement far harsher punishments for bullies in all schools, like someone in this thread said already, one little detention doesn't stop anything. Also a big problem is people feel ashamed or embarrassed, like it's not cool, to tell a teacher. That attitude needs to be eradicated somehow... Maybe a huge campaign with lots of big name celebrities that kids will actually listen to?

-:Undertaker:-

26-09-2011, 08:55 PM

How does proper discipline by teachers stop bullying? I agree that discipline is lax because of over zealous interpretations usually by local education authorities. Teachers should feel empowered to be able to deal properly with situations but are often hampered by school governors who perhaps are not the best people to deal with the situation. It is only a part of the problem though and needs a huge shift in public opinion and parents not to dismiss the problem so lightly.

I'm not arguing against proper discipline which is what I constantly argue for, i'm arguing against legislation.

At least she is calling for something to be done and aiming for the top to help.

Anyway, Lady Gaga aside, when will the schools actually start to make a change? I think they need to implement far harsher punishments for bullies in all schools, like someone in this thread said already, one little detention doesn't stop anything. Also a big problem is people feel ashamed or embarrassed, like it's not cool, to tell a teacher. That attitude needs to be eradicated somehow... Maybe a huge campaign with lots of big name celebrities that kids will actually listen to?

Nothing will change, our schools are large, de-moralised comprehensives which are so vast that even the best headmaster will struggle to exert any form of control over the pupils. The same will continue;- disipline will go unchecked as will rules in general - our de-moralised teachers, fed up of the endless red tape from government and having to cope with children with differing abilities and/or languages will continue to do very little either in solving this problem or providing a good education to our children.

Britain's a nasty place because we've allowed it to be, and it will continue no matter how many celebrities we throw at it.

FlyingJesus

26-09-2011, 10:21 PM

Judas

26-09-2011, 11:27 PM

Celebs are definitely not the way to do things. No matter how much someone respects a famous figure, it's unlikely that they'd be able to change the way a person works. If Hedi Slimane made a statement saying that he hates everyone who plays football it wouldn't stop me from playing, the only way is to have smaller class sizes (which does work as it encourages more interaction) and more effective punishment for schoolchildren - even when I was at school it was getting to the point where you could kick someone's head in and only get sent to an isolation room for the afternoon

Then again you aren't a young impressionable child...

I did also say in my post that harsher punishments should be implemented, and I said that the celebrities should speak up to encourage kids being bullied to tell somebody, because it is considered uncool to do, which is basically ridiculous.

FlyingJesus

26-09-2011, 11:44 PM

Judas

26-09-2011, 11:52 PM

FlyingJesus

27-09-2011, 12:01 AM

Judas

27-09-2011, 12:12 AM

No I'm ridiculing the entire concept as it's clearly a load of tosh, and it is relevant because anyone who attempts to start a political agenda ought to have at least some logical backing to their overall idea.

Except it's really not relevant because that concept has nothing to do with her political involvement in the situation.

All she has said is "bullying must become illegal", so for you to suggest she has no backing to her idea, which we don't even know the specifics of (I hope it's not a brand new law), is silly.

Slowpoke

27-09-2011, 10:05 AM

So beautiful, give this a watch guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aER4KfBvpwA

beth

27-09-2011, 12:07 PM

I may not be an impressionable child but once upon a time I was young and I'm quite capable of remembering what it's like. I'm also able to confirm 100% that if a victim tells the teachers about bullying, it will only make things worse. To quote one instance, a boy in my science classes was advised to keep a list of people who had bullied him, and one of our fabulous group called out to him in the next lesson "Liam, if you put me in your bully book I will set fire to your cat". There really is nothing that can be done short of total 24/7 supervision, as true to Gaga's wonderful born this way propaganda some people were born to be on top and some were born to be the victims of the upper circles

completely agree with the bolded parts (apart from you being young once... old irl), i do believe the world is dog eat dog (as sinister as that sounds) and that some people will always be underfoot and while the majority may not see that as right, it will always happen and nothing will change that. if bullying was "banned" it'd just increase the bullies desire to bully. the same with teenage drug/alcohol abuse. in france children/teens see drinking as a healthy available thing, and henceforth do not drink as much. over here teenagers are told NOT to drink, so they want to more. same principle with bullying. if someone was to tell me i wasn't allowed to idk, take the piss out of 'fred's hair, i'd probably do it even more so.

Anyway, you know full well that's not what her whole message is. Let me get this straight. By your logic; rapists, murderers and terrorists were born to do such things so it's okay and we shouldn't try to stop it, just as bullying a young child until he kills himself is acceptable?

And in the case you mentioned, the kid should have contacted the police as that was a serious threat.

i definitely believe that certain people are born to do certain things, but the logic doesn't mean we should condone it. no-one condones bullying even if we let it happen. if someone told you they were kicking out of sixth form for example for cyber bullying, you'd judge them and that alone would be their punishment. even if they were proud of being a bully they would have to live with the judgement of others for the rest of their lives. same with rapist/murders/etc they live with the consequences of being in prisons.

and the cat thing hahahha, for real? you'd ring the police for that?

So beautiful, give this a watch guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aER4KfBvpwA

as lovely as that is, the problem is that he's dead now and gaga only noticed him BECAUSE he killed himself. the only message this sends out is "tweet gaga, then kill yrself, then get a gaga song dedicated to you."

Slowpoke

27-09-2011, 12:49 PM

Wrong. She's trying to raise awareness of what bullying results in! She's a campaigner about bullies for a hell of a long time and has lead many of the campaigns herself. You're making out that it's an attempt to gain publicity for herself when it's not that at all, she's trying to show that bullying needs to be dealt with more seriously, hence the hard-hitting performance

Judas

27-09-2011, 02:10 PM

i definitely believe that certain people are born to do certain things, but the logic doesn't mean we should condone it. no-one condones bullying even if we let it happen. if someone told you they were kicking out of sixth form for example for cyber bullying, you'd judge them and that alone would be their punishment. even if they were proud of being a bully they would have to live with the judgement of others for the rest of their lives. same with rapist/murders/etc they live with the consequences of being in prisons.

and the cat thing hahahha, for real? you'd ring the police for that?

I don't think that someone getting judged for victimizing a person day in day out until they commit suicide is a suitable punishment.

And yes, I'm for real? Animal cruelty is an offense. If someone seriously threatened to set fire to my dog or cat or god forbid they actually did it I would get the police involved. And if they weren't being serious then Tom making a point of bringing that story up is invalid.

as lovely as that is, the problem is that he's dead now and gaga only noticed him BECAUSE he killed himself. the only message this sends out is "tweet gaga, then kill yrself, then get a gaga song dedicated to you."

:rolleyes: How else do you expect her to have noticed him? I think she has better things to do than sit on Twitter all day scrolling through her millions of mentions. You saying that kind of implies that any tribute to any dead person is a bad thing.

FlyingJesus

27-09-2011, 04:52 PM

The story is valid because it's about bullying, you don't have to follow through with ridiculous nonthreats like that for your actions to be considered bullying...

As for Gaga, regardless of what she's truly after (which I'm sure you know far better than I, being her best friend and all) she is quite clearly riding this story like a jockey on a prize racehorse, going all out to show herself up as this wonderful saviour of the people thing she pretends to be without actually having the allegorical winning legs herself. It's a worthwhile analogy to consider as the racehorse only gets flogged harder in the future for doing well and any bully victims who decide to stand up for themselves because of Gaga will also be attacked more heavily, while the jockey and Gaga enjoy their money and their popularity. Do people genuinely think she's the first, the last or even the most important person to have said that bullying isn't very nice? Does anyone really believe that she's capable of drafting a pragmatic piece of legislation that will make even the tiniest bit of difference, and if so that it'll actually get moved through the courts? Do me a favour.

The Don

27-09-2011, 05:11 PM

Why do you keep bringing up the whole born this way when it's completely irrelevant to the point?

Anyway, you know full well that's not what her whole message is. Let me get this straight. By your logic; rapists, murderers and terrorists were born to do such things so it's okay and we shouldn't try to stop it, just as bullying a young child until he kills himself is acceptable?

And in the case you mentioned, the kid should have contacted the police as that was a serious threat.

You're comparing the social hierarchy which is the natural order of things in schools to a terroist going out and killing the public? nothing was stopping him from standing up for himself, telling someone or moving schools (not that he should of had to) but people have far worse things going on in their lives than getting teased. Some kids tried to pick on me, i stood up for myself, they didn't bother me again.

Jordan:A

27-09-2011, 06:09 PM

Saw this today in the Metro :)
http://www.metro.co.uk/music/876642-lady-gaga-dedicates-song-to-teenage-suicide-victim-at-las-vegas-concert

Judas

27-09-2011, 10:54 PM

You're comparing the social hierarchy which is the natural order of things in schools to a terroist going out and killing the public? nothing was stopping him from standing up for himself, telling someone or moving schools (not that he should of had to) but people have far worse things going on in their lives than getting teased. Some kids tried to pick on me, i stood up for myself, they didn't bother me again.

There's a difference between having a social hierachy than someone being told "kill yourself because you're gay" everyday. It's not just being teased, and from what I've heard this kid did try to stand up for himself but it only made things worse.

He DID tell people, but no one listened to him. If you look at his Tumblr and Twitter accounts he always spoke about how people bullied him at school, but no one did anything.

Also, the kids that victimized him day in and day out were responsible for his death, so they effectively killed him... kind of

(which I'm sure you know far better than I, being her best friend and all)

Get a grip :rolleyes:

she is quite clearly riding this story like a jockey on a prize racehorse, going all out to show herself up as this wonderful saviour of the people thing she pretends to be without actually having the allegorical winning legs herself.

Obviously I disagree, but even if that is the case what she's doing is only raising positive awareness against bullying, so regardless of whether she's doing it for personal gain or not is cancelled out by the fact that she IS trying to do something productive instead of lazy slacktivism that other celebrities practice.

Do people genuinely think she's the first, the last or even the most important person to have said that bullying isn't very nice?

Such a pointless and stupid thing to say, obviously no one thinks that and she isn't claiming it either :rolleyes:. You're suggesting that only one person is allowed to speak out against an issue like bullying?

Does anyone really believe that she's capable of drafting a pragmatic piece of legislation that will make even the tiniest bit of difference, and if so that it'll actually get moved through the courts? Do me a favour.

Probably, but I don't. However I also don't see how anything but good can come out of her efforts.

FlyingJesus

27-09-2011, 11:20 PM

Probably, but I don't. However I also don't see how anything but good can come out of her efforts.

Then you're obviously not aware of how law works. If someone comes up with a half-baked plan to stop bullying that gets laughed out of the courts then anyone with serious and workable ideas on how to tackle such a problem (if such ideas can truly be made) will have a much harder time getting themselves heard. It's like when you're winning an argument and suddenly some kid who agrees with you starts screaming abuse at the opposition - it makes you look like you're losing the debate even if you were well ahead before the latest occurrences. Gaga is not the goddess of the downtrodden, she's the little mousey girl telling you it'll be alright while your head's down the toilet.

Slowpoke

28-09-2011, 10:13 AM

Then you're obviously not aware of how law works. If someone comes up with a half-baked plan to stop bullying that gets laughed out of the courts then anyone with serious and workable ideas on how to tackle such a problem (if such ideas can truly be made) will have a much harder time getting themselves heard. It's like when you're winning an argument and suddenly some kid who agrees with you starts screaming abuse at the opposition - it makes you look like you're losing the debate even if you were well ahead before the latest occurrences. Gaga is not the goddess of the downtrodden, she's the little mousey girl telling you it'll be alright while your head's down the toilet.

Regardless, you cannot deny that it wasn't a lovely tribute and a beautiful way to honour the kid who committed suicide

Accipiter

28-09-2011, 02:02 PM

Regardless, you cannot deny that it wasn't a lovely tribute and a beautiful way to honour the kid who committed suicide

Yeah the record company love their promotional techniques, I bet they wish kids died more often!

Judas

28-09-2011, 03:58 PM

Then you're obviously not aware of how law works. If someone comes up with a half-baked plan to stop bullying that gets laughed out of the courts then anyone with serious and workable ideas on how to tackle such a problem (if such ideas can truly be made) will have a much harder time getting themselves heard. It's like when you're winning an argument and suddenly some kid who agrees with you starts screaming abuse at the opposition - it makes you look like you're losing the debate even if you were well ahead before the latest occurrences. Gaga is not the goddess of the downtrodden, she's the little mousey girl telling you it'll be alright while your head's down the toilet.

Aside from the politics, her campaigning is going to do nothing but positive things.

Yeah the record company love their promotional techniques, I bet they wish kids died more often!

are you serious

Accipiter

28-09-2011, 04:06 PM

Aside from the politics, her campaigning is going to do nothing but positive things.

are you serious

Highly, her image is designed around reasoning with controversial matters and always had been. If you think any inch of this comes from Lady Gaga brain herself then you're highly mistaken, she was an image created to gain an audience by a record label and they promoted her through controversy.

FlyingJesus

28-09-2011, 04:10 PM

Aside from the politics, her campaigning is going to do nothing but positive things.

Yet the politics are the only thing that could possibly have a real effect, and as I explained before this crusade of hers is only going to damage that. Not sure what positives you think can come of making a mockery of the entire affair.

Accipiter you have a very archaic view of the pop world if you think the labels still control their people that heavily

Accipiter

28-09-2011, 04:13 PM

She's a money maker, that is all. Personally I find her songs poor and only famous due to lots of promotion.

FlyingJesus

28-09-2011, 04:19 PM

I would love it if one day people would learn the difference between opinion and fact. I don't like AC/DC but I don't go around telling people they murder cows at the behest of their management and that they're only famous because someone made a poster for them

Accipiter

28-09-2011, 04:30 PM

Judas

28-09-2011, 05:45 PM

Highly, her image is designed around reasoning with controversial matters and always had been. If you think any inch of this comes from Lady Gaga brain herself then you're highly mistaken, she was an image created to gain an audience by a record label and they promoted her through controversy.

I'm glad you took the time to tell me that though there is no real evidence to prove that, so I'm afraid your cynicism concerning pop music isn't going to achieve much here. Anyway, either way I couldn't care because I like her music, performances, message etc so I couldn't really care less if it came from her (which it clearly does) or a group of men in suits...

Yet the politics are the only thing that could possibly have a real effect, and as I explained before this crusade of hers is only going to damage that. Not sure what positives you think can come of making a mockery of the entire affair.

Well clearly we just disagree entirely

It's an opinion, but why oh why does Lady Gaga tend to be a silent type 100% of the time until speaking out about something controversial, it comes across false and created.

In my eyes her personality looks like its fed from the record label because she's always silent when being spoken to alone (From what i've seen of her)

Lady Gaga is a silent type!? hahahahahaha, that's a good one

GommeInc

28-09-2011, 05:55 PM

It's an opinion, but why oh why does Lady Gaga tend to be a silent type 100% of the time until speaking out about something controversial, it comes across false and created.

In my eyes her personality looks like its fed from the record label because she's always silent when being spoken to alone (From what i've seen of her)
I didn't have you down as the sort to find music labels behind the actions of their singers :P I've mostly seen Lady Gaga acting under her own steam when protesting and petitioning. I'd hardly say this is a controversial matter either! Singers, writer and actors have gotten involved in tackling injustices before :P

I think Lady Gaga's involvement is positive, the boy got in contact with her afterall and to ignore it would be pretty low for someone of her standing with the public. Though it won't go anywhere in the US Government to abolish bullying, she's made people feel aware of the causes of bullying and you never know, she might of made people feel the need to watch out for it.

Accipiter

28-09-2011, 06:54 PM

I'm glad you took the time to tell me that though there is no real evidence to prove that, so I'm afraid your cynicism concerning pop music isn't going to achieve much here. Anyway, either way I couldn't care because I like her music, performances, message etc so I couldn't really care less if it came from her (which it clearly does) or a group of men in suits...

Well clearly we just disagree entirely

Lady Gaga is a silent type!? hahahahahaha, that's a good one

When you see her walking off stage, talking to cameras, talking on shows or talking on stage (conference style that we see her do) she is silent with words and speaks through clothes, which you cannot deny, so you get some sort of sense of inability to publicly speak alone.

Mind you I only saw short clips of the footage of her on stage with that meat suit, but from what I saw of it she wasn't speaking very loudly or confidently!

Judas

28-09-2011, 07:02 PM

When you see her walking off stage, talking to cameras, talking on shows or talking on stage (conference style that we see her do) she is silent with words and speaks through clothes, which you cannot deny, so you get some sort of sense of inability to publicly speak alone.

Mind you I only saw short clips of the footage of her on stage with that meat suit, but from what I saw of it she wasn't speaking very loudly or confidently!

That's because she was crying and singing LOL

I've seen her live and many of her interviews and I will tell you now that she's definitely not quiet... And if you've only seen small clips of her then I don't really see how you can tell me I cannot deny what you're saying.

Accipiter

28-09-2011, 07:10 PM

You can deny what i'm saying, but its just a feeling I get whenever I see her in the lime light!

**** my grammar is appalling I feel dyslexic sometimes.

Catzsy

29-09-2011, 07:53 AM

I'm not arguing against proper discipline which is what I constantly argue for, i'm arguing against legislation.

So how far would this unregulated discipline go? Bring corporal punishment back? What you do you think teachers should be allowed to do?

-:Undertaker:-

29-09-2011, 12:08 PM

So how far would this unregulated discipline go? Bring corporal punishment back? What you do you think teachers should be allowed to do?

That is quite correct, yes. The system would be a nationwide-grammar schools system mixed with private, which would allow for schools in this country to uphold standards rather than having un-runnable large comprehensives of the sort we do now, with mixed ability (which is about equality and not education). But yes, I would allow schools to have corporal punishment as recent polls showed around 50% support for its return and I believe strongly in corporal punishment having witnessed myself the chaos schools have to put up with concerning naughty children.

See, in a libertarian world - you would be entitled with fellow left wingers to set up a comprehensive without corporal punishment (like the ones we have now across the country) and send your children there, meanwhile I and many many others would choose the opposite, opting for the grammars/private/religious schools...

...Like many of the Labour Party and Conservative Party do for their own children (front bench names provided upon request).

Judas

29-09-2011, 08:17 PM

UPDATE: Three boys may be charged for hate crimes concerning Jamey's suicide

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2040694/Jamey-Rodemyer-suicide-3-bullies-face-hate-crimes-charges-death-gay-boy.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Thoughts?

I think it's good they are being punished, especially after reading this as well http://unicornbooty.com/2011/09/jamey-rodemeyers-bullies-cheer-were-glad-youre-dead-at-homecoming/

I can't believe some of the stuff written on his Formspring either...

'JAMIE IS STUPID, GAY, FAT ANND UGLY. HE MUST DIE!'
'I wouldn't care if you died. No one would. So just do it :) It would make everyone WAY more happier!'

Catzsy

30-09-2011, 08:12 AM

That is quite correct, yes. The system would be a nationwide-grammar schools system mixed with private, which would allow for schools in this country to uphold standards rather than having un-runnable large comprehensives of the sort we do now, with mixed ability (which is about equality and not education). But yes, I would allow schools to have corporal punishment as recent polls showed around 50% support for its return and I believe strongly in corporal punishment having witnessed myself the chaos schools have to put up with concerning naughty children.

See, in a libertarian world - you would be entitled with fellow left wingers to set up a comprehensive without corporal punishment (like the ones we have now across the country) and send your children there, meanwhile I and many many others would choose the opposite, opting for the grammars/private/religious schools...

...Like many of the Labour Party and Conservative Party do for their own children (front bench names provided upon request).

Well I do not agree with corporal punishment but they should have more powers including the right to search. I think you are referring to quite old labour dogma here as Labour itself bought in academies and tech schools.
We could argue all day about the differences between Comprehensives and Grammars. They are still streamed into abilities and I believe it is the running of the school rather than the labelling of it that it the problem. Discipline at the end of the day starts with the parents. If you go with Grammar schools a high proportion of
children would be written off at the age of 11 which can't be right. Also so much emphasis on academic as opposed to vocational training has been a mistake for those who perhaps won't make the grade at GCSE. There are still rights to have free schools and private schools now that are out of the control of the LEA so whats so different about that and your idea? I am not saying it is right or wrong - time will tell.

-:Undertaker:-

03-10-2011, 12:01 AM

Well I do not agree with corporal punishment but they should have more powers including the right to search. I think you are referring to quite old labour dogma here as Labour itself bought in academies and tech schools.We could argue all day about the differences between Comprehensives and Grammars. They are still streamed into abilities and I believe it is the running of the school rather than the labelling of it that it the problem.

The grammar vs comprehensive issue is at the heart of the debate over education - grammars allowed the best (because there does exist a better class of pupils who are brighter just as it existed in the Soviet Union, no matter as much as we and they pretended everybody is 'equal') even if they were poor to attend the best schools with like-minded pupils. Its not at all 'old Labour dogma' - it still exists because the Labour Party is more socialist than ever before. Infact I am sure it was only a decade ago that is was made so that its now actually illegal to set up grammar schools in this country.

I attend, as much as I love the people and the place, a dreadful outer-city comprehensive school - I have seen it first hand; the brightest pupils were sat there bored while the teacher struggled to control the class or had to keep those at the top of the class behind because the rest of the class could not grasp the topic. It's un-runnable by its sheer size and has appalling results even with exams being easier than ever before.

Discipline at the end of the day starts with the parents. If you go with Grammar schools a high proportion of children would be written off at the age of 11 which can't be right. Also so much emphasis on academic as opposed to vocational training has been a mistake for those who perhaps won't make the grade at GCSE.

The system wasn't perfect, infact the German model is the best (interestingly the first thing East German parents did when socialism fell was to bring back the grammar schools) which is more flexible and is decided by a joint decision between teacher, parents and pupil.

But as for condemning pupils, we do this every year, with every generation - the bright children who happen to be poor are condemned to bad education in comprehensives, along with those who are quite bright but are let down by the schools system. In this country if you want a good education you can either pay for it or buy into an expensive catchment area of a religious/one of the remaining grammar schools - the rest have to make do with the comprehensives.

There are still rights to have free schools and private schools now that are out of the control of the LEA so whats so different about that and your idea? I am not saying it is right or wrong - time will tell.

Because the poorest don't have access to private schools which may be based on ability - they are stuck with inner-city comprehensives which basically condemn them to poor education. We've had generations of politicians pledging to 'fix' the education system - it can be fixed, bring back the grammar school system. Grammar schools are probably one of the only good things a government can do for the poorest.

UPDATE: Three boys may be charged for hate crimes concerning Jamey's suicide

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...=feeds-newsxml (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2040694/Jamey-Rodemyer-suicide-3-bullies-face-hate-crimes-charges-death-gay-boy.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)

Thoughts?

My thoughts are, as nasty as the comments may be - that it is beyond wrong to charge anybody for saying, writing or texting an opinion.

Catzsy

03-10-2011, 11:22 AM

The grammar vs comprehensive issue is at the heart of the debate over education - grammars allowed the best (because there does exist a better class of pupils who are brighter just as it existed in the Soviet Union, no matter as much as we and they pretended everybody is 'equal') even if they were poor to attend the best schools with like-minded pupils. Its not at all 'old Labour dogma' - it still exists because the Labour Party is more socialist than ever before. Infact I am sure it was only a decade ago that is was made so that its now actually illegal to set up grammar schools in this country.

I attend, as much as I love the people and the place, a dreadful outer-city comprehensive school - I have seen it first hand; the brightest pupils were sat there bored while the teacher struggled to control the class or had to keep those at the top of the class behind because the rest of the class could not grasp the topic. It's un-runnable by its sheer size and has appalling results even with exams being easier than ever before.

The system wasn't perfect, infact the German model is the best (interestingly the first thing East German parents did when socialism fell was to bring back the grammar schools) which is more flexible and is decided by a joint decision between teacher, parents and pupil.

But as for condemning pupils, we do this every year, with every generation - the bright children who happen to be poor are condemned to bad education in comprehensives, along with those who are quite bright but are let down by the schools system. In this country if you want a good education you can either pay for it or buy into an expensive catchment area of a religious/one of the remaining grammar schools - the rest have to make do with the comprehensives.

Because the poorest don't have access to private schools which may be based on ability - they are stuck with inner-city comprehensives which basically condemn them to poor education. We've had generations of politicians pledging to 'fix' the education system - it can be fixed, bring back the grammar school system. Grammar schools are probably one of the only good things a government can do for the poorest.

My thoughts are, as nasty as the comments may be - that it is beyond wrong to charge anybody for saying, writing or texting an opinion.

Well I have some sympathy for your comments abput the Grammar v Comprehensive debate. The only reservation is that what happens to late developers? Their future could be cut off at the age of 11. If there were ways to transder pupils who deserve it at say at 12 or 13 I would probably support it. Could we not go even further though and have vocational colleges for less academic pupile where the 3rs are dealt with on a less academic basis but training for employment is paramount? Harrassment via texting is already dealt with under the law of this land and the police can issue a warning notice however the answer surely is to get a new number and only give to those you trust. A lot of this could have been avoided.

The hate crimes - I am not sure about this. It is very tragic indeed but there were ways to stop it I feel. The bullying via the internet could have been sorted by accounts being been closed and new ones with a new identity made and the parents perhaps did not realise how this impacted on his mental health.