Complaints Forum

[Sharon]

this MIGHT be just me but i really doubt it. i can currently only see the thread i've created in the complaints forum and not others? don't see why that's the case if it is... most of the time the complaints are valid so really it's kinda like habbox is embarassed to have their mistakes/things/general stupidness pointed out.

[Catzsy]

I noticed this but I don't know why. It maybe something that is temporary but everyone makes mistakes and
I am sure it is not about 'embarrassment' or 'stupidness'. Also it is not as if there are many complaints.

[xxMATTGxx]

It was decided by Jin that people shouldn't be able to read other peoples complaint threads and therefore it was made private. You should be able to see any threads in there that you have created yourself and you of course can still create any threads in there if you have a complaint.

[Stephen]

What a stupid idea

[Red]

Agreed! Some complaints, other people might agree with and should be able to add to the discussion.
I would prefer to have a section for ones you wish to be private and another for a public complaints.

[Jordan]

Obviously because so many people got rep for the complaints they posted...

Nah I think it's a good and a bad decision but i don't mind that much.

[Zeptis]

IDC, I just liked to watch people complain about stupid things then laugh at the subtly

[Chris]

It makes sense to me, you couldn't reply to complaints anyway.

[FlyingJesus]

most of the time the complaints are valid

How do you know if you can't see them

[Martin]

I think any issues which pertain to anyone or would make any difference to anyone would be discussed in Habbox Feedback really, as this one is. Most complaints tend to be about very general specific things and normally get resolved anyway. Members were not able to post in these threads so it doesn't make too much difference not being able to see them really. Similar to how if you submitted a complaint in a supermarket etc its normally done privately etc and resolved that way. It's not as if there are hundreds of complaints and most of them tend to be silly things like moderation issues etc which do get resolved by the appropriate people, and the outcome will be the same whether other members can see the threads or not. I don't think it's a case of being embarrasseed about mistakes, since most of the things there aren't even major issues and could be dealt with via PM anyway tbh. The feedback forum is here to give feedback on stuff really, however for the really negative stuff I don't think it needs to be in public view since it does lower the tone a bit and it's far easier when issues are kept private. I can see where Jin is coming from really, and I think as long as issues get resolved to a satisfactory standard then it's not a huge problem that people can't see them.

[Chippiewill]

So if I have a complaint that I want people to see I guess I'll just put it in feedback instead from now on instead I guess.

[Phil]

I don't think is a fantastic idea tbh. What if something new/mistake with the forum such as (just for an example) when the graphics forums flipped out and hundreds of posts were lost, as they were. If one person posts a complaint and people can see that, they'll just read that thread and their questions would be answered. In this case, if something like this were to happen, instead of one person posting the complaint, you'll have a number of people posting and you're going to have to explain to each person individually IF YOU GET MAH DRIFT!!!

Also, it's fun looking at the fail complaints!

[xxMATTGxx]

I don't think is a fantastic idea tbh. What if something new/mistake with the forum such as (just for an example) when the graphics forums flipped out and hundreds of posts were lost, as they were. If one person posts a complaint and people can see that, they'll just read that thread and their questions would be answered. In this case, if something like this were to happen, instead of one person posting the complaint, you'll have a number of people posting and you're going to have to explain to each person individually IF YOU GET MAH DRIFT!!!

Also, it's fun looking at the fail complaints!

If it wasn't a complaint like your example about threads missing from the GFX section, they can always be moved to another section.

[Inseriousity.]

Removes all accountability and some things able to be swept under the carpet so I'm not a fan of it. If people are getting +12 rep for a post they post in there, that should tell people that perhaps it's not just some mad obsessive moaner who's complaining? Although as far as I can make out, often general management get lots of +rep for their reasoning too.

[GommeInc]

The complaints forum is a stupid idea full stop. It's a mix of the feedback forum and the ask Habbox staff forums. If people want to complain, do it one to one because having staff gang up against members was and is poor for relations. When the threads were viewable it just caused unnecessary grief which could of been dealt with privately with one individual, especially when you get contradicting answers and information.

Besides, half of the threads in that forum should of been in feedback, because some of the complaints are picking out problems with the forum which other members maybe able to support or be against depending on the complaint.

[Grig]

It's dumb. Many a time, people have created really good and constructive feedback threads from an initial complaint thread. I don't see what Habbox is loosing for putting it out in the public. In fact, it makes it look better in the sense that it is presented that there are clear, concise and professional replies to issues.

[Chippiewill]

The complaints forum is a stupid idea full stop. It's a mix of the feedback forum and the ask Habbox staff forums. If people want to complain, do it one to one because having staff gang up against members was and is poor for relations. When the threads were viewable it just caused unnecessary grief which could of been dealt with privately with one individual, especially when you get contradicting answers and information.
100% Agree, +rep


Besides, half of the threads in that forum should of been in feedback, because some of the complaints are picking out problems with the forum which other members maybe able to support or be against depending on the complaint.I did actually enquire about that a year or two ago and I was assured by some people that threads affecting more than one person would be moved to the feedback forum, they never were because the staff didn't want to put up with the overwhelming number of complaints.

[Catzsy]

Well I actually think that the person who got a lot of +rep had a point and he could have re-worded it slightly to make it suitable for feedback. Surely complaints are for a specific one off thing rather than a complaint about something general that a member/s thinks could be improved. It may be worth thinking about how it is worded.

[GommeInc]

Perhaps you could delete the forum as it has no significant purpose anymore? The PM system is sufficient enough for members. Also, one error is what if a member of the forum complains about a member of management? He can see the "complain about member of staff" forum so it defuncts any unbias views, especially when you're constantly told by staff to "PM x to complain about y". Create a sticky at the top of feedback called "Staff and Member Complaints" and have links to key members of staff who can deal with problems.

You also get the added bonus of members having to post forum-wide complaints in the feedback forum as the complaints forum would simply cease to exist. So it's a win-win-win situation. Afterall, any corporate organisation will tell you that complaints are valid feedback and more important than a compliment.

[Jin]

Well if it is a complaint that others should see then it is feedback? :S

For instance if you are complaining that LMFAO is filtered but JOTFB* isn't then it isn't so much a complaint as it is feedback. But if you are complaining that your VIP hasn't arrived in 5 days or your computer was randomly IP banned and you couldn't get on for days then it is a complaint.

At the end of the day I can't think of any other establishment that would publicly display something which should be treated confidentially anyway. No member could reply to another members complaint so I can't see it being an issue to any member other than the quidnuncs amongst us.

[AgnesIO]

It was decided by Jin that people shouldn't be able to read other peoples complaint threads and therefore it was made private. You should be able to see any threads in there that you have created yourself and you of course can still create any threads in there if you have a complaint.

Sorry, but what a ******* stupid decision.

[Jin]

Sorry, but what a ******* stupid decision.
Sorry, but what a stupid ******* comment...

[AgnesIO]

Sorry, but what a stupid ******* comment...

No. I honestly do not understand your reasoning behind making the forum private. If it is because you cannot face seeing people get repped ten times for voicing (an evidently popular feeling) then why not just go and remove feedback. I just don't understand why you felt it necessary to suddenly make the forum private, when it has been fine ever since it was created.

You really don't understand this forum, do you?

[FlyingJesus]

Feedback isn't for threads like OMG I HATE THE MODS I GOT AN INFRACTION as that is a personal matter and therefore a complaint

[GommeInc]

Well if it is a complaint that others should see then it is feedback? :S

For instance if you are complaining that LMFAO is filtered but JOTFB* isn't then it isn't so much a complaint as it is feedback. But if you are complaining that your VIP hasn't arrived in 5 days or your computer was randomly IP banned and you couldn't get on for days then it is a complaint.

At the end of the day I can't think of any other establishment that would publicly display something which should be treated confidentially anyway. No member could reply to another members complaint so I can't see it being an issue to any member other than the quidnuncs amongst us.
I wouldn't call enquiring about why your VIP hasn't been added to your account a complaint or confidential. Enquiries and complaints are completely different. That's another issue with the Complaints forum, it was filled with enquiries that make the Ask the Habbox Staff forums useless. There seems to be too many forums doing too similar things, and the Complaints Forum is the main culprit as public flogging by Habbox Staff has never really been useful to members, and now that's it private it's worse as real complaints (about staff/members) make the members feel ganged up upon by Habbox Staff who sometimes don't know what they are doing, what they are saying and end up confusing matters. A one to one system works.

I ask you, what establishment has complaints handled by the whole admin/super moderator/management team? ;) Complaints are usually handled by as few people as possible, not an audience of Habbox Management subjecting the complaints to tedious debate. Amazon don't do this, nor do Play, Electronic Arts, Britivic, Wilkins and Sons, Sainsbury's, Tesco, Adsa, British Government, McDonald's, Burger King, Kent University and on and on and on....

[Jin]

I don't understand why you feel you are entitled to evaluate us on every change we make as much as we like to entertain the community's opinions and ideas there are some things where you don't have a say in the matter and you need to come to terms with that.

It isn't something that affects you and your use of the forums to put it blunt it is **** all to do with you, complaints should be dealt with confidentially and my plans are to make it so that cautioned and banned users can make their appeals via the forum rather than the ticket system if you must really know (bringing me back to the quidnuncs point again).

If you don't like that then can I suggest you go make a complaint in the complaints forum.

So, as,
1) It is nothing to do with you.
2) I have explained why it has been done.
3) It doesn't affect the members in anyway.
4) The decision isn't going to be reversed.

Accept it and move on....

[GommeInc]

I don't understand why you feel you are entitled to evaluate us on every change we make as much as we like to entertain the community's opinions and ideas there are some things where you don't have a say in the matter and you need to come to terms with that.

It isn't something that affects you and your use of the forums to put it blunt it is **** all to do with you, complaints should be dealt with confidentially and my plans are to make it so that cautioned and banned users can make their appeals via the forum rather than the ticket system if you must really know (bringing me back to the quidnuncs point again).

If you don't like that then can I suggest you go make a complaint in the complaints forum.

So, as,
1) It is nothing to do with you.
2) I have explained why it has been done.
3) It doesn't affect the members in anyway.
4) The decision isn't going to be reversed.

Accept it and move on....
Why make a complaints thread when this perfectly good feedback thread does the job? It's half the point of the feedback thread, and feedback in general. If you don't like members giving feedback, get rid of the forum and assume a dictatorship role :P Obviously we do not have an explicit say with what and how changes are made, but people are allowed to voice their opinions, especially when the complaints forum was popular - the +reps that filled that forum is proof of that. And it has a lot to do with us, complaints are filed by members, not staff or management. You're arguing with your forum users, the ones that use your website and forum. It actually has a lot to do with members.

[AgnesIO]

I don't understand why you feel you are entitled to evaluate us on every change we make as much as we like to entertain the community's opinions and ideas there are some things where you don't have a say in the matter and you need to come to terms with that.

It isn't something that affects you and your use of the forums to put it blunt it is **** all to do with you, complaints should be dealt with confidentially and my plans are to make it so that cautioned and banned users can make their appeals via the forum rather than the ticket system if you must really know (bringing me back to the quidnuncs point again).

If you don't like that then can I suggest you go make a complaint in the complaints forum.

So, as,
1) It is nothing to do with you.
2) I have explained why it has been done.
3) It doesn't affect the members in anyway.
4) The decision isn't going to be reversed.

Accept it and move on....

Well, clearly I missed understood this forum. "A place for you to post any feedback or ideas for Habbox"

I personally like seeing how management respond to peoples complaints - especially when the persons complain is stupid - so it isn't even that I like to see the 'complaintees' getting repped.

Also, what a good idea. Getting rid of the crappy support system - although it would make it an even bigger waste of money lol. I won't be making any complaints in that forum, ever. I personally would like mine and other users views to be seen by others - and even if that is if management have ****** up, it should still be seen.

So, as,
1) It has something to do with every user who has used this forum, especially those who have posted for multiple years.
2) Apologies, I just think it is a pointless move - I cannot understand why you felt it necessary to bother making it private. Perhaps we could make feedback private too?
3) The members use the forum, you have changed something on the forum, it will therefore affect the users.
4) Barely anything is reversed when you make the first move.

[Jin]

But your plus reps are based around threads which were in one way or another are a form of feedback so make those threads in feedback and plus rep them there!

An example being a members thread about some sort of filter discrepancy in which we resolved it not by removing his infraction or whatever and calling it quits but resolving the issue of the discrepancy despite this was made in the complaints forum it was more so a point of feedback in which we took the points made as being fair and valid and sorted the problem.

Understand that whatever you had before in complaints still exists it just will be in the feedback forum wherever it existed.

As an FYI report reputation will also move to complaints eventually.

[Kyle]

merge complaints and feedback sections
sorted

[wixard]

my complaints are hilarious everyone should have the right to see them

[AgnesIO]

But your plus reps are based around threads which were in one way or another are a form of feedback so make those threads in feedback and plus rep them there!

An example being a members thread about some sort of filter discrepancy in which we resolved it not by removing his infraction or whatever and calling it quits but resolving the issue of the discrepancy despite this was made in the complaints forum it was more so a point of feedback in which we took the points made as being fair and valid and sorted the problem.

Understand that whatever you had before in complaints still exists it just will be in the feedback forum wherever it existed.

As an FYI report reputation will also move to complaints eventually.

So basically, the forum is no longer for general complaints - and is for -reps infractions and bans?

[Jin]

*snore*.

I said what I have said argue it as much as you like. Thanks for your opinion I guess.

[AgnesIO]

*snore*.

I said what I have said argue it as much as you like. Thanks for your opinion I guess.

Yeah it is my opinion and feedback.

I keep forgetting rule A13 of not being able to comment and have opinions on what changes the forum "government" implement.

Just like S18 of the No Free Speech Act (2011) banning the opinions and feelings on changes made by the British Government.

Silly me.

[GommeInc]

merge complaints and feedback sections
sorted
They are one in the same, anything negative could easily be moved to complaints as it could be interpreted as a complaint more than a general feeling or belief, or notion felt by the rest of the forum community. It's why the Complaints forum has always been a bit hopeless with its use and definition :P As long as members write threads that do not ask for specific attention to your account, you're fine. The Ask the Habbox Staff forums are looking pretty lonely right about now, seeing as the complaints forum is encrouching on its use :P

[AgnesIO]

They are one in the same, anything negative could easily be moved to complaints as it could be interpreted as a complaint more than a general feeling or belief, or notion felt by the rest of the forum community. It's why the Complaints forum has always been a bit hopeless with its use and definition :P As long as members write threads that do not ask for specific attention to your account, you're fine. The Ask the Habbox Staff forums are looking pretty lonely right about now, seeing as the complaints forum is encrouching on its use :P

Reminding me of North Korea - no negative opinions may be put out in public lol

[Hopeless]

It's easy enough to make a complaint into feedback.

Complaint: there arent enough posts why arent u admins doing anything?!?!?!
Feedback: Hi, due to the recent lack of posts I believe it would be a good idea to ________

win

[AgnesIO]

It's easy enough to make a complaint into feedback.

Complaint: there arent enough posts why arent u admins doing anything?!?!?!
Feedback: Hi, due to the recent lack of posts I believe it would be a good idea to ________

win

You might not have any ideas yourself though :P

[GommeInc]

You might not have any ideas yourself though :P
Then you just say:

"Has anyone else noticed the sharp drop in interesting or useful posts on the forum? Is there anyway to fix this, or am I missing a special sporting event that's zapping away at members again?" :P or something to that degree.

I think there may be a line if you start discussing moderators or management misbehaving, but you could easily VM a few others and get them to start posting feedback in a thread or let them creating a quantity of them. Depends how you word it

[Hopeless]

"hi due to recent lack of posts i believe we should all use this thread to brain storm ideas on how to increase activity"

[AgnesIO]

"hi due to recent lack of posts i believe we should all use this thread to brain storm ideas on how to increase activity"

Fair point. You could also say (which I will);

I would like users to be able to voice their opinions on this, so don't move it to complaints. Thanks :)

[Zeptis]

I think we should all just be the hell quite, look at what this is doing to us the owner of the forum is biting at the throats of his members just over 1 thread being private, Although I don't agree with the change, I think it should be discussed in a civilized manner, not in a cage fight.

[Phil]

Tbh at this point I think it'd be better off completely deleting the Complaints Forum. You want to make it private but we can still see that people are complaining if we bothered looking at the amount of threads every so often I understand it's not the same because we can't take note of who is actually complaining but we'd know complaints are being made and how often if we cared enough to check.

So, delete the complaints forum as tbh it kinda looks negative there anyway and if people wish to make a complaint they can just send whoever it concerns a PM. Most if not all users should know to do that but just in case have a thread stikied in the Feedback forums titled "Want to make a Complaint?" explaining the procedure.

It's 1am. This sounded a lot better in my head!

[GommeInc]

Tbh at this point I think it'd be better off completely deleting the Complaints Forum. You want to make it private but we can still see that people are complaining if we bothered looking at the amount of threads every so often I understand it's not the same because we can't take note of who is actually complaining but we'd know complaints are being made and how often if we cared enough to check.

So, delete the complaints forum as tbh it kinda looks negative there anyway and if people wish to make a complaint they can just send whoever it concerns a PM. Most if not all users should know to do that but just in case have a thread stikied in the Feedback forums titled "Want to make a Complaint?" explaining the procedure.

It's 1am. This sounded a lot better in my head!
I've seen admins, super moderators and management openly telling people to PM whoever the complaint or query concerns, and such a system should be promoted rather than shunned. The Complaints system has never really appealed to me and has always come off as a way for management to publically bash members with other management, but now they can do it privately with other members of management and staff. 1 to 1 handling of complaints is a tried and tested method. Most organisations, charities and indeed fansites follow such a system. It's more personal and direct, and you can learn a lot from a one to one directive. Complaints do not come in thick and fast so it shouldn't be a hinderence to the PM system, and any queries should be directed to the Ask the Habbox Staff forums, which have a much better use.

Oh, and not bad for a 1am post - it made a lot of sense ;)

[Hecktix]

I agree with those suggesting to remove the complaints forum entirely. I never liked it and always believed that complaints should be dealt by the relevant staff member in a direct one-to-one basis with the complainant. GommeInc has said that the complaints forum as it was often led to members of management "ganging up" on members and in my opinion this is probably true, albeit not intended on the management's behalf.

For instance if you put yourself into the shoes of a member of GM, and you saw one of your fellow GMs answering a complaint but thought you could add something valid to help your fellow GM - you'd add it, right? I actually disagree with this happening although I did it when I was a member of the management team and I'm pretty sure each member of the current management team have done it too. Obviously, this then turns into a 2 v 1 complaint, so can appear as if Management are ganging up - as of course, members cannot reply to complaints that they did not post. I guess you could say this is an unfair advantage but whatever.

The type of complaints posted in complaints tend to be the more hostile complaints, I can speak from experience in saying that those who contact you directly are usually more polite about their complaints than those who post in the complaints forum. This could in theory lead to the method you use to complain resulting in the way you are responded to.

The reason I was always told we weren't allowed to solely take complaints via PM was because there was no "way to check up on it". If I had my way, Managers would deal with complaints about their department unless the complaint involved the manager and then it would be dealt with by the relevant AGM (ideally, an AGM set aside for complaints - I am against the current AGM structure but that's another story). Yes, of course you can often get rogue managers but if you ensure managers "cc" the AGM team into their replies to complaints, etc then you can ensure it is monitored. At the end of the day the GM can check people's PMs if he ever had any doubt, so the whole "monitoring" thing that I was told of when I was General Management is crap, unless of course it's the GM you can't trust? Then again - Jin can read PMs too of course.

Essentially, there is no need for the complaints forum and I think personally, direct complaints via PM are much better to deal with and the complainant will get a much better response.

[Casanova]

In that case... what the fudge will happen when you get repeated complaints?

what an absolute crock.

[Catzsy]

In that case... what the fudge will happen when you get repeated complaints?

what an absolute crock.

I actually think they will be dealt with properly but obviously nobody can please people all the time.