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Accipiter
23-10-2011, 08:32 PM
To say, having a child without having any income, intentionally giving birth to a child while living on the dole.

I find it quite disgraceful to have the ignorance of such, a girl in my school year just done this very thing.

She got bullied all of her life, which I have sympathy for. But to bring a child into the world you've just been harassed in all your life once again is very ignorant, especially when you're of a young age, and had it to a 22 year old man who still walks the streets trying to get street cred rather than a job.

It pretty much boiled my blood when I heard that she'd done it, the kid now looks towards a poor quality of life and pretty much the same background of the mothers, she, nor the father look like they have any intentions to get a job so the child will be brought up by our taxes.

18 years of age and ignorant enough to give birth to a child when you can't even look after yourself is despicable and shouldn't be allowed.

The mother could have waited 2 years and have had money in hand then had a child, but they've stupidly went out and gave birth to a child without anything to give it, yes it can be loved by the parents still, but it's education and life style are hardly going to be of standard.

What is your opinion? Personally it boils my blood that people can go out and do it on purpose.

Thread moved by Infectious (Forum Super Moderator): From "Health, Life and Relationships", as it is probably better suited here!

MKR&*42
23-10-2011, 08:46 PM
To say, having a child without having any income, intentionally giving birth to a child while living on the dole.

I find it quite disgraceful to have the ignorance of such, a girl in my school year just done this very thing.

She got bullied all of her life, which I have sympathy for. But to bring a child into the world you've just been harassed in all your life once again is very ignorant, especially when you're of a young age, and had it to a 22 year old man who still walks the streets trying to get street cred rather than a job.

It pretty much boiled my blood when I heard that she'd done it, the kid now looks towards a poor quality of life and pretty much the same background of the mothers, she, nor the father look like they have any intentions to get a job so the child will be brought up by our taxes.

18 years of age and ignorant enough to give birth to a child when you can't even look after yourself is despicable and shouldn't be allowed.

The mother could have waited 2 years and have had money in hand then had a child, but they've stupidly went out and gave birth to a child without anything to give it, yes it can be loved by the parents still, but it's education and life style are hardly going to be of standard.

What is your opinion? Personally it boils my blood that people can go out and do it on purpose.

Urgh, well - my mum was 19 when she gave birth to me and she couldn't financially support herself... I never grew up completely messed up, I think I have a great life in my opinion :)

Yeah, I do however think that some teenage mothers need to wait - mine didn't, but she knew how to take care of a child properly (somehow) compared to some 17 year old girls you see smoking and ignoring their children... it just makes me think "wow, aren't you a good parent!"

Having a decent amount of income definitely helps I would think, the child's obviously going to get a slightly better chance in life and will have a better quality of life but I don't think a low amount/no income is going to ruin everything. If the mother is a caring person who looks after her child properly.. then you can't put a price on love :3

I would say that 18 should be the minimum for a mother to have a child - at 17 or below, you don't really have an idea of what to do in your life.

Jssy
23-10-2011, 09:01 PM
I think it depends on the person.
If this girl intends on getting a job and financially supporting her child then I think it's fine but if she's lazy and has no intentions of working then I think it's wrong. If you want a child you should pay for it yourself.

Accipiter
23-10-2011, 09:04 PM
From what i've seen of the female that made me bring this up, her nor her partner are aiming to get jobs.

I agree that some parents will still love a child even if they're young themselves, I hope the best for the child but I am hardly in a position to respect the mother as of yet.

-:Undertaker:-
23-10-2011, 09:10 PM
This is what happens when you have a culture where the traditonal family and marriage is undermined.

The cultural revolutionaries insist that the traditional family doesn't matter, and here are the results. I am quite frankly suprised this lady didn't go the whole hog in her selfishness and have an abortion as thousands do every year, justifying it on the usual grounds of 'im not ready for a child', 'the child wont have a good life' or any other of the usual tosh when people selfishly put themselves before the child despite the problem being a consquence of their own selfish actions (having sex) in the first place.

But no, the state shouldn't subsidise unmarried mothers.

Accipiter
23-10-2011, 09:17 PM
It's pretty much a life of poverty what they've given this young innocent child, and I disagree with it.

I'm a person that stands by love rather than marriage, I will still marry the woman I love, but I will most likely have children to her first. But I wouldn't bring a child into a life style where I couldn't support it, and certainly not at such a young age, the minimum age I feel it is acceptable to have a child at is 22, 23 being comfortable.

This child is going to be living in lower class throughout its life, the parents have shown lack of education and in my eyes schools only teach your child 50%, the rest falls to the parents and behaviourism, the kid will most likely come out to be like its parents because the parents will show a lack of education and a lack of control, it's a reoccurring chain of events that are hard to stop in a family.

Chippiewill
23-10-2011, 09:30 PM
Immoral? Yes. Illegal? No.

Dumb people do dumb things. I'd move on to be honest.

Accipiter
23-10-2011, 09:32 PM
Theres not much we can do I agree, all it was, was a basic rant, which is why it was initially in Lifestyle.

But once again our education system failed this girl and boy, and it's now had a domino effect on the child.

dbgtz
23-10-2011, 09:35 PM
It's pretty much a life of poverty what they've given this young innocent child, and I disagree with it.

I'm a person that stands by love rather than marriage, I will still marry the woman I love, but I will most likely have children to her first. But I wouldn't bring a child into a life style where I couldn't support it, and certainly not at such a young age, the minimum age I feel it is acceptable to have a child at is 22, 23 being comfortable.

This child is going to be living in lower class throughout its life, the parents have shown lack of education and in my eyes schools only teach your child 50%, the rest falls to the parents and behaviourism, the kid will most likely come out to be like its parents because the parents will show a lack of education and a lack of control, it's a reoccurring chain of events that are hard to stop in a family.

Whilst I agree you should not bring a child into the world with no intention of trying to support it, but it will most likely get harder and harder for an average person to support a family, at least in this country and I think benefits will help, but entirely relying just sets a bad example for there kid, meaning that before the child is even born they are being bad parents.

There is a problem where schools, or at least my school, focused far too much on sex education and safe sex rather then the implications of sex and family life, what is involved in raising a child etc. It's the same with, for example, politics. Some people call for 16 year olds to have the vote but I only ever remember getting a vague idea of how the system in this country works in year 6, so how would an average school pupil be able to make a wise decision on their vote. Anyway that is different, but I am saying how there is a lack of education around the more family aspects of life. Though it now interests me. Many people say that they do not know what to do when they first become a parent. So why do schools teach how to put a condom on where there are clear instructions (and to be honest doesn't takea genious to figure out) and not how to take care of a child and other life skills? Sex ed should exist don't get me wrong, but they do not need to go into huge detail where most things turn to common sense.

Anyway back to this, no they shouldn't be born.

Accipiter
23-10-2011, 09:41 PM
Let's remove the real meaning of R.E and make it "Reality Education" because some people in this world fail to take a step back and look at the big picture, where as studying the real meaning of R.E which teaches us to stand close and believe in hope rather than believing in ourselves.

I think what this world lacks is that people are far to busy living in fantasy land, too worried about all those Loreal women, or Rightguard men that they forget what they're actually living for and start becoming more focused on their own picture rather than the big picture once again.

The world is a mess, call me a hippy but it's in a state of utter madness.

Demi
23-10-2011, 09:44 PM
My thought is, if you can't look after yourself, don't look after someone else.
So security, income and love... Then kids.

Accipiter
23-10-2011, 09:45 PM
My thought is, if you can't look after yourself, don't look after someone else.
So security, income and love... Then kids.

To the point & 100% Accurate, was going to +rep it but I must have given you some recently.

If you can't even look after yourself, you should never be given the right to look after someone else.

Demi
23-10-2011, 09:51 PM
To the point & 100% Accurate, was going to +rep it but I must have given you some recently.

If you can't even look after yourself, you should never be given the right to look after someone else.

Doubt you've +rep me lately. But yeah, I stick to that opinion.
I wouldn't like to be raised by someone who has no security, income, love... So I wouldn't do it.

dbgtz
23-10-2011, 10:00 PM
Let's remove the real meaning of R.E and make it "Reality Education" because some people in this world fail to take a step back and look at the big picture, where as studying the real meaning of R.E which teaches us to stand close and believe in hope rather than believing in ourselves.

I think what this world lacks is that people are far to busy living in fantasy land, too worried about all those Loreal women, or Rightguard men that they forget what they're actually living for and start becoming more focused on their own picture rather than the big picture once again.

The world is a mess, call me a hippy but it's in a state of utter madness.

Yeah to be honest learning about religion is just not necessary, well at least not in the depth in schools. Maybe teach about the basics of religions just so people don't just go and take the piss. I mean I do not need to know what muslims do at sunrise, or that some guy rode a donkey and then was killed as I do not care as I am not religious. I mean, there are so many things that would be so much more useful, as you said the whole teaching of real life skills and giving knowledge which everyone (for the most part) will need. School timetables are so crammed, so focused on grades and "achievement" that it lacks any moral value that is crumbling society.

However the real problem with school is that whilst they may focus on grades and achievement, for those who are likely to do something as described in the original post, they are usually rewarded for nothing therefore they just learn to do as they please and still gain from it without having to lift a finger in comparison to someone from an average household.

Inseriousity.
23-10-2011, 10:19 PM
Personally, I think the real issue is the demonisation of single mothers that is just happening too frequently. No-one stands a chance when they've got negative connotations about the situation that they may not have wanted or planned for but they'll try to make the best of a bad situation. not every single mother is sponging off the state, not every single mother doesn't care for their children and only care about themselves.

Do I wish people would wait until they were secure financially and personally? Yes.
Do I think this is ever going to happen? No. (oh and before someone mentions it, people were having children out of wedlock all the time and had their children taken away from them and put in a home so it's not a "modern" thing).

In my opinion, it makes you the ignorant one.

-:Undertaker:-
23-10-2011, 10:21 PM
Personally, I think the real issue is the demonisation of single mothers that is just happening too frequently. No-one stands a chance when they've got negative connotations about the situation that they may not have wanted or planned for but they'll try to make the best of a bad situation. not every single mother is sponging off the state, not every single mother doesn't care for their children and only care about themselves.

Do I wish people would wait until they were secure financially and personally? Yes.
Do I think this is ever going to happen? No. (oh and before someone mentions it, people were having children out of wedlock all the time and had their children taken away from them and put in a home so it's not a "modern" thing).

In my opinion, it makes you the ignorant one.

Single mothers aren't demonised, the idea that there is a 'war against single mothers' is utter rubbish. As Peter Hitchens, author of the Abolition of Britain summed up so perfectly; a single mother raising a child on her own is like trying to lift a heavy suitcase with one hand - despite good intentions, it cannot be done.

Inseriousity.
23-10-2011, 10:22 PM
I think the 'blood boiling' rant in this thread proves it isn't utter rubbish.

Can't be done? It is being done. Every single day, you'll probably walk past someone who turned out just fine even though he/she had a single mother (oh and I should be fair and say single father too).

-:Undertaker:-
23-10-2011, 10:23 PM
I think the 'blood boiling' rant in this thread proves it isn't utter rubbish.

This thread talks more about benefits, which ought to get our blood boiling. I think you will find that its actually those who defend marriage and the family such as myself who are the ones who are demonised as backwards looking, foaming at the moth downright evil and nasty people.

An example is your reaction to somebody commenting on a selfish lady becoming pregnant and selfishly expecting the state to pick up the tab, that somehow to view this behaviour as negative (which it is) is 'a war against single mothers' and is 'demonisation'. If what I say, which is that unmarried mothers replacing the father figure with the state is a bad thing and ought to be discouraged - if that is demonisation, maybe we ought to have more of it.


Can't be done? It is being done. Every single day, you'll probably walk past someone who turned out just fine even though he/she had a single mother (oh and I should be fair and say single father too).

But then a large proportion do turn out wrong. A simple example of this is in the classroom, notice that most of the troublemakers in a classroom are from broken homes which have unmarried mothers, divored and hostile parents or have never known a father figure.

Accipiter
24-10-2011, 05:25 PM
Personally, I think the real issue is the demonisation of single mothers that is just happening too frequently. No-one stands a chance when they've got negative connotations about the situation that they may not have wanted or planned for but they'll try to make the best of a bad situation. not every single mother is sponging off the state, not every single mother doesn't care for their children and only care about themselves.

Do I wish people would wait until they were secure financially and personally? Yes.
Do I think this is ever going to happen? No. (oh and before someone mentions it, people were having children out of wedlock all the time and had their children taken away from them and put in a home so it's not a "modern" thing).

In my opinion, it makes you the ignorant one.

I haven't targeted a single mother any where in this thread.

Catzsy
25-10-2011, 11:16 AM
My feeling on this if it is a planned pregnancy whether you are married, single, gay or straight you should have some responsibility about how you can care for that child. Not having an income means that it would not really be possible to do what is best for a child and would not be the right time. Obviously it does not mean that once a pregnancy occurs that employment is lost for all sorts of reasons which cannot be reasonably forseen which is the same if the pregnancy is accidental despite using a reliable birth control method.

JoeyK.
25-10-2011, 06:04 PM
This is one of those situations where unexpected circumstances can make things much more difficult. I was not planned; My mother was 17, and my dad was 16 when i was conceived. They had the support of both sets of my grandparents, and had a plan set up (My mother was starting college, while my father was going to work with his dad in his construction business until she finished). Unfortunately, my father died in an accident three months before I was born.

Because of this, my mother had a very difficult time supporting me while going to school. Through all of this, she still managed to finish her degree and go on to make a lot of herself. It took a lot of dedication, and I have a lot of respect for her because of the struggles she has had to deal with. Of course, we did not have everything we always wanted back then, but we got by.

There is a big difference between people who live their entire lives on welfare and those who use it as a temporary means to help while they are trying to improve their lives.

.Tom.
26-10-2011, 10:56 PM
There is a big difference between people who live their entire lives on welfare and those who use it as a temporary means to help while they are trying to improve their lives.

Hit the nail on the head

As long as a person is able to/planning to financially and socially support the child then I think age is, at least partially, irrelevant.

It is the competence and morals of the mother/father that is the issue. I totally agree with the original post, a friend of a friend of mine now has two children, she is 19 and has never had a job. She lives entirely on benefits and has been provided with a council house to live in.

Whereas I, and most of the country have to work damn hard to save for a deposit and work hard for a LONG time to get a house. Really gets me angry :@

Vinnie:Safety
27-10-2011, 04:29 AM
Dude WTF do you personally know this woman and man, do you know there intentions?

Maybe they don't plan on keeping it, maybe they'll give it for adoption maybe they have a source of income.
Most likely your posting something the you don't know anything about. You don't know if they have money saved up if the family has money and such.
Maybe they didn't even plan on having a baby, even birth control and a condom can't stop pregnancy.
And just cause they get pregnant by mistake don't mean they can't have it, sounds like your pro for abortion
*REMOVED* anyone pro for abortion is latterly :)($&: in the head.

I'm done but I could go on and on-__-

Sent from my iPod touch using Forum Runner

---------- Post added 27-10-2011 at 04:31 AM ----------

Btw I was given a life of poverty and I turned out great16 years old legally living on my own supporting myself -actually living with my girlfriend but legally an adult to the "system"
Growing up poor turned me into a man at 16. I'm living the real life 10 times Better than I was growing up

Sent from my iPod touch using Forum Runner

---------- Post added 27-10-2011 at 04:35 AM ----------

Your expressing all your opinions, most of which is blabbering and you don't know anything on the subject,
*REMOVED*,
Seems fair you don't wanna bring a baby into the world with parents with no income..
*REMOVED*

Threads like this should be removed immediately because of people like me.

I'm quite offended from this kid -.-

Sent from my iPod touch using Forum Runner

Edited by Infectious (Forum Moderator): Please do not make rude remarks aimed at other members!

Accipiter
27-10-2011, 06:02 PM
Dude WTF do you personally know this woman and man, do you know there intentions?

Maybe they don't plan on keeping it, maybe they'll give it for adoption maybe they have a source of income.
Most likely your posting something the you don't know anything about. You don't know if they have money saved up if the family has money and such.
Maybe they didn't even plan on having a baby, even birth control and a condom can't stop pregnancy.
And just cause they get pregnant by mistake don't mean they can't have it, sounds like your pro for abortion
*REMOVED* anyone pro for abortion is latterly :)($&: in the head.

I'm done but I could go on and on-__-

Sent from my iPod touch using Forum Runner

---------- Post added 27-10-2011 at 04:31 AM ----------

Btw I was given a life of poverty and I turned out great16 years old legally living on my own supporting myself -actually living with my girlfriend but legally an adult to the "system"
Growing up poor turned me into a man at 16. I'm living the real life 10 times Better than I was growing up

Sent from my iPod touch using Forum Runner

---------- Post added 27-10-2011 at 04:35 AM ----------

Your expressing all your opinions, most of which is blabbering and you don't know anything on the subject,
*REMOVED*,
Seems fair you don't wanna bring a baby into the world with parents with no income..
*REMOVED*

Threads like this should be removed immediately because of people like me.

I'm quite offended from this kid -.-

Sent from my iPod touch using Forum Runner

Edited by Infectious (Forum Moderator): Please do not make rude remarks aimed at other members!

I think you best stop making judgemental responses and threats, you state you turned out ok yet you also state "I want to murder you for that" ok...

I know the girl, I knew her through school, I knew her through college, and I know her now. I know their relationship circumstances, I know my town. So please do not judge me as someone who makes irrational threads.

Nor am I pro abortion, not once did I say the child should be aborted, I said the child shouldn't be brought into the world, aka, shouldn't be conceived in the first place until the family have situations to bring it up in.

As with all circumstances, nothing is 100%, yes children can grow up in poverty and turn out great, but its what influences our countries poverty at the moment where families are bringing children up when the parents can't even control themselves.

Also I know the birth was intentional, as it was posted on Facebook that she wanted one, and she seemed pretty darn happy about it. I hardly doubt a mother of 18 would be cheering the birth of an accidental child, as it's pretty much a large flaw in your life at such a young age.

So please refrain from being rude and jumping at me with irrational comments, because if you read my post and yours, there is hardly any correlation to what you're going crazy at me for.

Also you probably want to hold your tongue if you say you want to murder someone then say you turned out fine, because quite frankly your murder comment was hypocritical to the statement you thought I made, which I never. As abortion is frowned upon less than murder, although yes, still bad in most cases, excluding rape of course.

Also, you say i'm expressing my opinions, you do realise it is the debate thread in which it is open for debate, aka, i'm open to changing my mind if a reasonable statement came along proving positive thoughts of intentional birth into poor backgrounds at young ages. So yes, i'm expressing my opinions, but they're open to change.

I'll take your sig into mind, but that pretty much sounded like a bad attitude to me.

AgnesIO
27-10-2011, 09:15 PM
Personally, I don't think people should have kids if they cannot actually financially afford to have them. It is just stupid and ignorant. Why should others have to pay tax for your to get benefits because you can't afford to look after the kids you optionally chose to have?

I have been quite fortunate (or unfortunate I guess) for my parents to not have wanted kids until they could easily cope with the financial side of things. I firmly believe my quality of life has been far better than it could have been because of this, as it has meant I have grown up in a financially secure background. On the other hand, my parents are not as young as most parents (although having said that I have a friend whose dad is 74/75 now and she is 16. But they are multi-millionaires..)

Now, don't get me wrong, of course there are situations which no one could have foreseen. Loss of jobs, death etc. But in reality a vast amount of people who are not financially able to cope with the children they chose to have are not in that position due unforeseen circumstances. Another point I will make, I would be totally against any idea of only have kids when you have x amount in the bank, but to me it is just common sense.

You would rent a house you could only afford to live in for a month due to the £15,000 a month rent, so why the bloody hell have children?

JoeyK.
27-10-2011, 09:41 PM
@ Marketing - Life is funny sometimes. Even people who think they have a high paying stable job may find themselves out of work a month later, especially in today's economy.

This is an interesting debate, because most of the responses have been from people who have never been put into a position to raise children. A lot of the time, you do not decide when you have kids. Birth control is 99% effective - each time you use it. I know plenty of people who took precautions and still ended up being parents, and most of them are damn good ones.

AgnesIO
28-10-2011, 11:03 AM
@ Marketing - Life is funny sometimes. Even people who think they have a high paying stable job may find themselves out of work a month later, especially in today's economy.


Think you missed part of my post :)


Now, don't get me wrong, of course there are situations which no one could have foreseen. Loss of jobs, death etc

Vinnie:Safety
28-10-2011, 01:31 PM
I think you best stop making judgemental responses and threats, you state you turned out ok yet you also state "I want to murder you for that" ok...

I know the girl, I knew her through school, I knew her through college, and I know her now. I know their relationship circumstances, I know my town. So please do not judge me as someone who makes irrational threads.

Nor am I pro abortion, not once did I say the child should be aborted, I said the child shouldn't be brought into the world, aka, shouldn't be conceived in the first place until the family have situations to bring it up in.

As with all circumstances, nothing is 100%, yes children can grow up in poverty and turn out great, but its what influences our countries poverty at the moment where families are bringing children up when the parents can't even control themselves.

Also I know the birth was intentional, as it was posted on Facebook that she wanted one, and she seemed pretty darn happy about it. I hardly doubt a mother of 18 would be cheering the birth of an accidental child, as it's pretty much a large flaw in your life at such a young age.

So please refrain from being rude and jumping at me with irrational comments, because if you read my post and yours, there is hardly any correlation to what you're going crazy at me for.

Also you probably want to hold your tongue if you say you want to murder someone then say you turned out fine, because quite frankly your murder comment was hypocritical to the statement you thought I made, which I never. As abortion is frowned upon less than murder, although yes, still bad in most cases, excluding rape of course.

Also, you say i'm expressing my opinions, you do realise it is the debate thread in which it is open for debate, aka, i'm open to changing my mind if a reasonable statement came along proving positive thoughts of intentional birth into poor backgrounds at young ages. So yes, i'm expressing my opinions, but they're open to change.

I'll take your sig into mind, but that pretty much sounded like a bad attitude to me.

Youre talking bad about a woman who went to college. She obviously has an education then, so she obviously can get a great job to support her family.

Sounds like youre making all this up for some debate, shes 18 and having a baby, what are you lieing about her age? the whole story? or going to college?

And yes this is one of them times, when it sounds like a bad attitude and it really is.

Accipiter
28-10-2011, 05:06 PM
Youre talking bad about a woman who went to college. She obviously has an education then, so she obviously can get a great job to support her family.

Sounds like youre making all this up for some debate, shes 18 and having a baby, what are you lieing about her age? the whole story? or going to college?

And yes this is one of them times, when it sounds like a bad attitude and it really is.

I don't make debates, and if you look at the first post you'd see it was moved to this section.

1) College in the UK, is not what College is to america, it is basically your final years of high school but with only 1 specialist subject, aka we'd get a BTEC or A Levels that would then up us onto University

American schooling system is

Juniors?>Seniors?>Highschool?>College? I believe

The uk's is:

Primary(Juniors)>Secondary(Seniors)>College(High school)>University(Your equivalent to college)

Obviously we've misunderstood each other due to the differences in our different education systems.

Jake
28-10-2011, 05:25 PM
My friend got pregnant at 15.. She had no job and no house. However i believe that the child has had THE best upbringing i have ever seen. The nicest 6 year old ive ever seen in my life, she is so sweet and innocent, so polite and she doesnt kick up a fuss about anything. Now that kid was brought up on hardly any income and now her mum has her own house, a brilliant job and still spends time with the kid. Shes 21 and she had her mum and her friends around her to support her. We all thought that she was going to be on benefits but she prooved everyone wrong. Just because of one *hate to use this word to describe someone* mistake when they do not have anything, doesn't mean they will have nothing in the future..

AgnesIO
28-10-2011, 05:33 PM
I don't make debates, and if you look at the first post you'd see it was moved to this section.

1) College in the UK, is not what College is to america, it is basically your final years of high school but with only 1 specialist subject, aka we'd get a BTEC or A Levels that would then up us onto University

American schooling system is

Juniors?>Seniors?>Highschool?>College? I believe

The uk's is:

Primary(Juniors)>Secondary(Seniors)>College(High school)>University(Your equivalent to college)

Obviously we've misunderstood each other due to the differences in our different education systems.

One specialist subject? Is it even possible to go to college and have one a level?


My friend got pregnant at 15.. She had no job and no house. However i believe that the child has had THE best upbringing i have ever seen. The nicest 6 year old ive ever seen in my life, she is so sweet and innocent, so polite and she doesnt kick up a fuss about anything. Now that kid was brought up on hardly any income and now her mum has her own house, a brilliant job and still spends time with the kid. Shes 21 and she had her mum and her friends around her to support her. We all thought that she was going to be on benefits but she prooved everyone wrong. Just because of one *hate to use this word to describe someone* mistake when they do not have anything, doesn't mean they will have nothing in the future..

But that means the child we be brought up with the idea that having a baby at 15 is right..

15 year olds should still be children, not parents ;(

Jake
28-10-2011, 05:37 PM
But that means the child we be brought up with the idea that having a baby at 15 is right..

15 year olds should still be children, not parents ;(

yeh.. She made a mistake and didnt agree with abortion.

Accipiter
28-10-2011, 06:03 PM
One specialist subject? Is it even possible to go to college and have one a level?



But that means the child we be brought up with the idea that having a baby at 15 is right..

15 year olds should still be children, not parents ;(

I was thinking BTECs :( picky!!!

AgnesIO
28-10-2011, 09:25 PM
I was thinking BTECs :( picky!!!

Yeah, I guessed so haha. Just being picky, as you say :P

My Sixth Form expects you to do at least 4 AS Levels (if you do this, you must also take an additional study), although 5 is common.

Accipiter
28-10-2011, 09:33 PM
Yeah, I guessed so haha. Just being picky, as you say :P

My Sixth Form expects you to do at least 4 AS Levels (if you do this, you must also take an additional study), although 5 is common.

North East must be thick, you can do 2 here, but 3 is average, 4 is unexpected LMAO


But yeah, this girl done a BTEC in hairdressing, which really shows education... It can save lives

AgnesIO
28-10-2011, 09:56 PM
North East must be thick, you can do 2 here, but 3 is average, 4 is unexpected LMAO


But yeah, this girl done a BTEC in hairdressing, which really shows education... It can save lives

Really?

My college would never let someone do two :S I am taking six (although I don't have to go to lessons for one of them).

Our college is one of the only ones to not have made many staff members redundant, but to not have had to do that, by making people take more AS Levels it means they get more funding, so could keep staff on.

HotelUser
28-10-2011, 10:05 PM
First off I just want to say other people's business does not concern me and I don't mean to offend anyone.

I'm sure there are really loving young mothers and fathers out there, but regardless I think it's extremely irresponsible to have a child before you're financially stable. It is depriving the child from having a stable upbringing. I really think it's important for parents today to make sure they're in a stable and safe environment before they have kids. Especially today where we live in a society where we have the opportunity to work towards being financially stable, and where we can choose to be pro-choice I just don't understand why some folks have kids too early knowing they can't even pay for their own way let alone another human.

AgnesIO
28-10-2011, 10:16 PM
First off I just want to say other people's business does not concern me and I don't mean to offend anyone.

I'm sure there are really loving young mothers and fathers out there, but regardless I think it's extremely irresponsible to have a child before you're financially stable. It is depriving the child from having a stable upbringing. I really think it's important for parents today to make sure they're in a stable and safe environment before they have kids. Especially today where we live in a society where we have the opportunity to work towards being financially stable, and where we can choose to be pro-choice I just don't understand why some folks have kids too early knowing they can't even pay for their own way let alone another human.

So I just typed out a ******* long rep message, but I can't rep you atm!!

Spot on though, others will disagree but I totally agree with you on this one, Dave.

GommeInc
28-10-2011, 10:38 PM
North East must be thick, you can do 2 here, but 3 is average, 4 is unexpected LMAO

But yeah, this girl done a BTEC in hairdressing, which really shows education... It can save lives
That might be changing soon. My college used to do what your one does, but changed last year due to some Government scheme being introduced. You have to do 5 I believe, when it used to be 4 plus an additional study. I did 4 A Levels and helped run the Charities Committee :P

As for the topic. I seem to turn a blind eye to these sorts of things, but I think if you're planning to have a child you should take a moment to reflect on your life and see if you can manage having a child - by putting time away and being able to afford one. Carelessness and not thinking is going to harm that child more than you would expect, and if you lack the time or the funds then bringing up a child will be incredibly difficult and unfair for both the mother, father and child (assuming said father is involved). I can't help but think the benefits system didn't help, where people thought a life of being a charity would be wise for both the child and mother, creating a sort of social stigma associated with the benefits system, but if it helped some people then fair play.

Casanova
28-10-2011, 11:01 PM
I think it depends on the person.
If this girl intends on getting a job and financially supporting her child then I think it's fine but if she's lazy and has no intentions of working then I think it's wrong. If you want a child you should pay for it yourself.

I'm sure your council estate was lovely to grow up on, at least you and your friends can go on a club 18-30 with your children - intentions are good but it doesn't mean it'll happen. I know of a girl who was 14, top of our class and ******* a revolting 18 year old. she must love her life now, with two children an ex-boyfriend and NOTHING.


----

I don't agree with it at all.
Personally, I think that we should - as a government give everyone an assessment during their second trimester to manage their needs and capabilities.

for instance, a mother that is a single parent, no qualifications nor job.
I'd give her an assessment for her needs - housing and various items such as cot, clothing, pram etc.
I'd give her a grant in vouchers to be spent on these items
I'd give her a house to live in which is suitable for her needs.

I'd then explain, if you are working by the end of maternity time of a year then you have to pay back your grant (which I assume minus housing would be about 1k) £10 a week. Like council tax this is a debt which must be paid back to your government even off of benefits - like a crisis loan.


If they aren't in full time employment/of an income in which they can support themselves or re-pay their debt then I'd put them in courses which suit their vocation intentions/wants and ensure she has the support and necessary skills to provide and nurture a child in our country.


For a couple with mental/physical capabilities then I'd do similar without them having to pay it back, a dedicated case worker and any further assistance. If they're deemed incapable of child care then of course they would lose the child - cold but necessary.


I feel our government invest a lot of money, get no reward yet seek no outcome to the current expenditure we have for many single parent families, dole mum's, dole families which exceed like ******* twelve, immigrants/asylum seekers, mentally/physically incapable.

We need to support our country, nurture their needs and spend our money well. If i had to pay taxes, pay more than what I need to then I wouldn't care - I'd know that these ******* drains on our society (which in all fairness sometimes isn't their fault - for instance I know of a single mum that would be £80 UP on her wages (not including all her outgoings LIKE paying council tax!) if she wasn't to work. She works because she feels her children learn that although they aren't lavished like some brats they have the right morals to achieve in life.


I could go on... and on... and on...

We're not here to supply endless funds to ghetto *****'s whom want a dingy flat, free benefits and a child they'll ruin the lives of.

Jssy
29-10-2011, 11:02 AM
Mm I suppose you're right. Some people are just awful though. My mums friend has 12 children and at least half of them have disabilities like autism, epilepsy, heart conditions etc. She keeps on having children she has another like every 2 years. Her eldest is 21 and the youngest is 1. She claims all types of benefits for them all, disability, saying they need a statement for disability on the ones that don't and she sends them all to special schools when they all don't need to. She buys her kids dresses that cost like £500 per time because she get's £2000 per child in dvla a month (except the eldest ones). My sister is generally disabled and she'd said to my mum 'Oh no, you won't get disability for her like I do mine', but my school had a statement written for my sister because she is unable to do a lot of basic things and my mum gets it at £49 a week, which is a lot less than her friend gets so she thinks it's wrong that she keeps having children that are disabled and crammed in to a 4 bedroomed house with an attic room. Even though something was brought out where you don't get benefits after your first child is born my mums friend is somehow able to.

Eoin247
29-10-2011, 06:53 PM
First off I just want to say other people's business does not concern me and I don't mean to offend anyone.

I'm sure there are really loving young mothers and fathers out there, but regardless I think it's extremely irresponsible to have a child before you're financially stable. It is depriving the child from having a stable upbringing. I really think it's important for parents today to make sure they're in a stable and safe environment before they have kids. Especially today where we live in a society where we have the opportunity to work towards being financially stable, and where we can choose to be pro-choice I just don't understand why some folks have kids too early knowing they can't even pay for their own way let alone another human.

I might be coming in a bit late on this, but this quote has essentially said what i wanted to say.

Although i realise that majority of teenage pregnancies are not intended, if you cannot finiancially support a child then you should do everything to avoid having one in the first place.

Vinnie:Safety
31-10-2011, 01:36 PM
I don't make debates, and if you look at the first post you'd see it was moved to this section.

1) College in the UK, is not what College is to america, it is basically your final years of high school but with only 1 specialist subject, aka we'd get a BTEC or A Levels that would then up us onto University

American schooling system is

Juniors?>Seniors?>Highschool?>College? I believe

The uk's is:

Primary(Juniors)>Secondary(Seniors)>College(High school)>University(Your equivalent to college)

Obviously we've misunderstood each other due to the differences in our different education systems.

Its Pre-School, Kindergarten, Elementary, Middle, Highschool, then college or university.

And yeah we obviously did.

Grig
18-11-2011, 02:39 AM
I don't see this to be a debate of whether the state should subsidize single mothers or not. Each case of being raised by a single parent is different in its own right. You get people divorced etc. so if there was such a thing, there would need to be a body of people analyzing each case. Now the fact that once the baby is born, there is nothing to do but to help fund the mother, otherwise the state itself would be much worse off in the long-run. Things such a crime and other elements will increase in the long-run. However, I do agree on lowering the benefits in order not to make life too easy.

Now back to the issue here, there has been a cultural shift over the last few decades- from the modernist movement at the start of the previous century actually. Things were getting re-defined and re-shaped in terms of child bearing in terms of age etc.. Due to a social shift, our social climate is less about going out there and building a life from a younger age, but rather being educated and building this life after.

To the person who said their mother was 19 but they weren't quote "messed up" is presenting a silly point. Of course you won't be messed up in a sense, but you will not have the best upbringing you could have. Especially the fact that by that age a human mind has not yet reached full maturity. If you are to have children at such an age, then that decision alone, considering you are not fully educated, yet alone established financially means that it was quite a silly decision. I blame these things on poor upbringing and a weak education system that does not substantially address these issues.

Hour
18-11-2011, 02:51 AM
My Parents were in their late 30's when I was born, All my friends say 'oh your parents are old' Me: Yeah, well, I have 50 grand saved up for Univeristy/College, I get like anything I want. MW3, XBOX, Computer, Wii, etc. + They still know the old way to raise a child, Smack him when he does something wrong, Call that child abuse? I respect my dad for smacking me, Teaches me better + Teaches me to be a man, and no my parents havn'tbrainwashedme.

Zak
21-11-2011, 12:24 AM
I agree with you Accipiter on your original post. Our government is always willing to give financial support to those low lives who won't make anything of their lives. That's what's wrong with this country. Unfortunately it won't change, UK is going down the ****ter.. (I'm assuming you live in the UK btw) :)

My friend however has endometriosis and unfortunately at age 18 she has decided to have a child because she won't be able to have one later in life. I don't mind her claiming benefits, actually I'll happily pay my taxes for her.

My parents own a property company and a story similar to yours you wrote happened to a tenant of ours. She basically only had the child to claim the benefits and the neighbours were always shocked to see the baby being left on her own all day in an empty house and once she was outside crying at 11pm when she was having a house party for her and her friends. Social services didn't take her baby away because they wanted 'more proof' it was actually ridicolous. Her and her bf (who had just come out of prison btw) were both drug addicts and he was actually a drug dealer.

People like that who play the system make me sick and to be honest a lot of people think the same way but nothing ever gets done about it?

Richie
21-11-2011, 03:02 PM
Every pregnant woman does, they are clearly covered income hence how they're pregnant.

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