Contagion continues to consume the crippled Eurozone

[-:Undertaker:-]

Financial Times (incidently a newspaper which supported the Euro and got it completely wrong, but a good analysis on bonds anyway); http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c9efa9fe-0fb5-11e1-a36b-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1donmkpg8


http://www.iaza.com/work/111116C/iaza13186136705100.bmp

Despite the EU and its undemocratic coup de'tat in both Italy (former EU Commissioner appointed Italian Prime Minister until 2013 after being made a Senator-for-life on 11th November 2011) and Greece (former European Central Banker being appointed as Greek Prime Minister, was one of those behind the Euro in first place) the markets are certainly not soothed by the games of political chess being played. The facts are, that these countries are broke and they will default - no matter what Mr Barroso says, the damp rag Van Rompuy rolls out or what Merkozy and Cameron claim.

Bonds are essentially when you borrow to the government. Once a bond yield reaches the 7% mark, its essentially game over; Greek, Portugese and Irish bonds have already breached the 7% wall hence why they are now reliant on the IMF and EU to keep them in a cycle of never-ending debt. Italy meanwhile is now at 6.9% and Spain is creeping up to 7% with its current rating on 6.2%. The others are getting worse (see above).

You have to remember though and this is important, before this hits the fan big time, who got this right and who got this wrong. Here's Labours' own Peter Mandelson being grilled on the subject of the Euro, enjoy!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20PedC6fhp8

Meanwhile Blair (LAB), Heseltine (CON), Clarke (CON) and Clegg (LIBDEM) among others all believe we should still join the Euro. That reminds me, is anybody still selling tickets for the Titanic? anyone?

Thoughts? what action should Britain take? who are you planning to vote in the 2012 local elections in light of the crisis?

[Catzsy]

Lets get this into perspective Dan.

This is what Tony Blair said:

"I agreed with the five tests and I agreed with his decision. I was always absolutely in favour of doing it politically and still am. I've always said though, since it's an economic union, the economics have got to be right.

"Now I don't actually take the view that some people take, that Britain joining the euro, in the past or now, will be a disaster. However I always said, unless you can make a compelling case for it economically you were never going to win a referendum on it.

"And the case for Britain joining isn't compelling. Now it may become that at a certain point."



You will see that he is not saying 'join' he is just not writing the possibility off.

My personal point of view is that it was always doomed to failure. How can less well off countries like Greece, Spain and Portugal whose standard of living and economic prosperity was nowhere near Germany and France. They have tried to drag them up but it hasn't worked and they would be better off with their own currency again.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Lets get this into perspective Dan.

This is what Tony Blair said:

You will see that he is not saying 'join' he is just not writing the possibility off.

Mr. Blair speaks, like Mr. Mandelson among others, with a folked tongue given the oncoming collapse of the Euro. I do remember however, as do many others, Mr. Blair fronting the 'Britain in Europe' campaign which campaigned for Britain to enter the Euro which would have put us into the Euro had it not been for the excellent efforts of the counter-group 'Business for Sterling' among other groups.

The man is a goon as are they all, everything they have said has turned to goo before our eyes. Why you would want franky dangerous people like Mr. Blair, Mr. Mandelson and Mr. Miliband to run this country is beyond me, it must be a kind of death wish. I know if he had taken us in yourself and Labour would be responding with 'now is not the time to gloat, we need to solve this crisis' forgetting in the first place why we are in a crisis.

[Catzsy]

Mr. Blair speaks, like Mr. Mandelson among others, with a folked tongue given the oncoming collapse of the Euro. I do remember however, as do many others, Mr. Blair fronting the 'Britain in Europe' campaign which campaigned for Britain to enter the Euro which would have put us into the Euro had it not been for the excellent efforts of the counter-group 'Business for Sterling' among other groups.

The man is a goon as are they all, everything they have said has turned to goo before our eyes. Why you would want franky dangerous people like Mr. Blair, Mr. Mandelson and Mr. Miliband to run this country is beyond me, it must be a kind of death wish. I know if he had taken us in yourself and Labour would be responding with 'now is not the time to gloat, we need to solve this crisis' forgetting in the first place why we are in a crisis.

Did you even read the quote?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Did you even read the quote?

Yes I did, he stated that joining the Euro in the past wouldn't have been a mistake and wouldn't be a mistake sometime in the future.

Showing he has learnt sod all.

[Catzsy]

Yes I did, he stated that joining the Euro in the past wouldn't have been a mistake and wouldn't be a mistake sometime in the future.

Showing he has learnt sod all.


No what he said is that it would be a possibility subject to economic conditions. Not what you said at all. It was the Labour Government who made sure we didn't join the euro.

[Eoin247]

With regards to FT getting it completely wrong. A great deal many of the things they published came out to be true, so while they may be wrong with regards to some points they are certainly not "completely wrong"

What annoys me with regards to this situation is Germany having an unhelpful stance with us at this stage. Ireland is the only country out of the so called"PIIGS" in which austerity and plans that were made for recovery are working. In fact, Ms. Merkly even applauded Enda Kenny and showed him off to the rest of the world recently saying that Europe can indeed make things work.

Yet after doing these things right, Germany (and the EU)still refuse to assist us in any real way with our bank dept or allow us to burn their bondholders. This will be to the German disadvantage in the long run i believe.

[-:Undertaker:-]

No what he said is that it would be a possibility subject to economic conditions. Not what you said at all. It was the Labour Government who made sure we didn't join the euro.

Of course it would, anything economic you consider, you consider what the conditions you are undertaking are.. snake talk from a hollow man. Tony Blair, had he had his way, would have taken the United Kingdom into the Euro and we would be in the mess we are now just as he took us into the Social Chapter when gaining Office in 1997.

He only refrained because Brown was holding it against him along with the press bearing too much pressure on him to hold a referendum on the topic, a referendum he knew he would loose - as Business for Sterling absolutely trashed his 'Britain in Europe' campaign which was dropped.


With regards to FT getting it completely wrong. A great deal many of the things they published came out to be true, so while they may be wrong with regards to some points they are certainly not "completely wrong"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxPFZra8MuM

The Financial Times was staunchly pro-Euro when the Euro was launched and got it completely wrong as the rest of the pro-Euro lobby was, we (those who warned of the disaster such as some Tories, some Labour, all of UKIP) were all sneered at and dismissed as 'little englanders' by the likes of the Financial Times and Tony Blair, as Peter Oborne correctly points out above.


What annoys me with regards to this situation is Germany having an unhelpful stance with us at this stage. Ireland is the only country out of the so called"PIIGS" in which austerity and plans that were made for recovery are working. In fact, Ms. Merkly even applauded Enda Kenny and showed him off to the rest of the world recently saying that Europe can indeed make things work.

Yet after doing these things right, Germany (and the EU)still refuse to assist us in any real way with our bank dept or allow us to burn their bondholders. This will be to the German disadvantage in the long run i believe.

Are you asking for German taxpayer to bail you out of your reckless spending? am I right in that? because had you [Ireland] still retained the Punt you would have been able to devalue yourselves out of the problem to buy some time, as opposed to being sucked into this gigantic mess.

[Eoin247]

Are you asking for German taxpayer to bail you out of your reckless spending? am I right in that? because had you [Ireland] still retained the Punt you would have been able to devalue yourselves out of the problem to buy some time, as opposed to being sucked into this gigantic mess.

Reckless spending? I hope you mean by that reckless lending by banks in Ireland. The only real sizeable dept (and the source of our economic problems) our country has is bank dept to central european countries.

With regards to helping with the bank dept, in my last post you will see that i specifically pointed to burning major bond holders in europe not charging the german taxpayer.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Reckless spending? I hope you mean by that reckless lending by banks in Ireland. The only real sizeable dept (and the source of our economic problems) our country has is bank dept to central european countries.

With regards to helping with the bank dept, in my last post you will see that i specifically pointed to burning major bond holders in europe not charging the german taxpayer.

Yes, reckless spending - you have to spend money to rescue failed banks and take on their toxic assets.

Default, return to the Punt and never allow your government to a) spend too much again & b) never bail out banks again.