'Second hand smoke' myth

[-:Undertaker:-]

'Second hand smoke' - a time for reflection?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H4Z1n_GG8I&feature=youtu.be
(be aware video contains curse words)

I dare anybody, anybody at all on this forum who believes in banning smoking in public places/bars/pubs because of 'second hand smoke' to watch even the first 8 minutes of this video. The myth is debunked in a funny way and I beg a advocate of banning smoking in public places (yes there's quite a few of you on here) to reply once you've viewed even the first eight minutes of the video. The part about smoking lasts until about 15:00.

Really, you'll find it interesting and its not heavy or anything so give it a view if you have some spare time!

Anybody brave enough? thoughts?

[The Don]

It's not hard to go outside of a pub/club/bar to have a quick smoke and it's much more convenient, so in that sense, it should be banned from inside public places.

[buttons]

er even if it doesn't harm us (which i believe it does) it still lingers on your clothing and makes me cough/gag. seriously when i had to live in a temp house myself, it was a non-smoking house but the guy before disregarded that and smoked anyway. the whole house smelled. ALL my clothes, even if they hadn't been worn but were just lying about SMELLED. horrible. honestly, why are you so adamant to allow public smoking in bars/clubs? because it'll get more customers? that's the pubs/clubs problem. our club here has a smoking room.... it should be up to them.
no i haven't watched this, i'm commenting only on what you've posted which is ridiculous. of course people are going to say that second hand smoking isn't dangerous. you do realize only in the 1950s etc they didn't even know there were any health complications with first-hand smoking???? man you're stuck in the past with everything lol. it's easier and more convient for smokers to get out of the way of non-smokers than vise versa. & i'm more than happy to stay away from people whenever i do smoke. it's simple and respectful.

[Accipiter]

Heres my point, if you can't prove it, don't give a damn about it.

I merely don't like standing around people who smoke, because they'll tell me about how their life is hard and how their uncle was very friendly when they where young. It's a foul stench, and I avoid people who smoke with a wide birth because it's a dirty habbit.

I'm neither side, smoke if you want to, but if someone dislikes it move away.

The video is very biased, where you not only just moaning about the BBC for that very kind of thing?

[GommeInc]

I don't care about the harm it does. It's a disgusting habit that should never of happened. There are zilch benefits when it comes to smoking, and people stupid enough to take up the habit should seperate themselves and smoke outside to respect others. It's forcing respect onto people who partake in a stinky, dirty habit, because they're too selfish to remvoe themselves from the company of people who do not want to leave a place after a night out stinking of tobacco smoke.

[cocaine]

I merely don't like standing around people who smoke, because they'll tell me about how their life is hard and how their uncle was very friendly when they where young.

yeah cause that happens to every smoker :rolleyes: i don't really like the smell of second hand smoke, but you're only ever in it for 3 seconds maximum if you're outside..

[Accipiter]

yeah cause that happens to every smoker :rolleyes: i don't really like the smell of second hand smoke, but you're only ever in it for 3 seconds maximum if you're outside..

It was more a joke, recollecting the horrific time when I went on a door to door sales interview when it was suppose to be marketing, knocking on the door of a fat ginger 14 year old geordie telling us how hard his life is playing on mw3 all day:rolleyes:

[Fez]

I've had asthma attacks from second-hand smoke, smoking has a clear link to lung cancer so (obviously) second-hand smoke does too. Penn and Teller have never really done anything constructive with their shows, aside from this lovely video-game defence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWr4htYp9dM), even displaying absolute militant atheism twisted into anti-theism. I wouldn't trust anyone interviewed in that posting.

Do I believe in the ban? In theory, absolutely. In practice, the governments have made an absolute ****-up of not investing in 'smoking rooms', making private businesses pick up the bill. No surprise that pubs are losing business in this day and age when people have to go outside into the cold to deal with their depression.

But, honestly, if you want to suggest for one second that second hand smoke can't harm people well I grew up in a family of smokers and the doctors I saw throughout my asthma have all said there's a link there. My asthma is set off by anyone smoking, worse than sprays and such. If you also want to dispute asthma somehow not harming the human body then hello!

[Andy]

i'm a smoker, but a fair one.. if people don't like me smoking around them, ill go outside.. i most definitely agree with the view that is should be the business owners choice. designated inside smoking rooms possibly? yes, it is just common decency to go outside.. but sometimes you feel discriminated against. like the 'evidence' says.. it's not particularly dangerous but i'm a fair person.. i'll happily go outside to keep others happy. you cant beat the system.. therefore you go with it

[Chippiewill]

That video whilst proving a good point was clearly very biased and cannot be trusted. Not to mention all the logical fallacies they had riddled everywhere to emphasise a point.

I don't think second hand smoke is particularly harmful to most people, but as above things like asthma can kill certain people which is unfair and restricts where they can go. But my problem with second and smoke is that it stinks and I've found being in public is much nicer when you're not having smoke shoved down your lungs. Do I think a full public ban is necessary? No. Do I think there should be serious restrictions on where it is allowed in public? Yes. Pubs, bars, places suited towards it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I've had asthma attacks from second-hand smoke, smoking has a clear link to lung cancer so (obviously) second-hand smoke does too. Penn and Teller have never really done anything constructive with their shows, aside from this lovely video-game defence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWr4htYp9dM), even displaying absolute militant atheism twisted into anti-theism. I wouldn't trust anyone interviewed in that posting.

No it does not, see again.


Do I believe in the ban? In theory, absolutely. In practice, the governments have made an absolute ****-up of not investing in 'smoking rooms', making private businesses pick up the bill. No surprise that pubs are losing business in this day and age when people have to go outside into the cold to deal with their depression.

But, honestly, if you want to suggest for one second that second hand smoke can't harm people well I grew up in a family of smokers and the doctors I saw throughout my asthma have all said there's a link there. My asthma is set off by anyone smoking, worse than sprays and such. If you also want to dispute asthma somehow not harming the human body then hello!

I will dispute it just as we can dispute that it causes cancer. I cannot believe the attitude of some people on here who think that they have a right to remove something which they do not like via the force of the law. It absolutely annoys the hell out of me, worse still these are the same people who talk about 'the dark days' of when homosexuality was banned - which in part is true because why should the government ban what people do in their own bedrooms or what people smoke in their own bars, clubs and pubs?


i'm a smoker, but a fair one.. if people don't like me smoking around them, ill go outside.. i mostdefinitelyagree with the view that is should be the business owners choice. designated inside smoking rooms possibly? yes, it is just common decency to go outside.. but sometimes you feel discriminated against. like the 'evidence' says.. it's not particularly dangerous but i'm a fair person.. i'll happily go outside to keep others happy. you cant beat the system.. therefore you go with it

The choice of the business owner, absolutely.

We used to class that as freedom until the above lot started their pathetic whinging on the topic. I don't smoke, I haven't even tried smoking because I think its stupid mainly for the price cigarettes cost - but am I overly concerned about smoke? no, and if I was then i'd so the simple thing and go to a bar which doesn't allow smoking.

It really is that easy people, so why don't you all grow up and think for yourselves instead of having government wipe your bottom?


It's not hard to go outside of a pub/club/bar to have a quick smoke and it's much more convenient, so in that sense, it should be banned from inside public places.

And its also very easy for you to walk out of a bar/pub if you are that concerned about smoke.

But forgive me, that would involve using your own will and brainpower would it not?


Heres my point, if you can't prove it, don't give a damn about it.

Here's my point, if you don't like it then stay away from it.

Thats what a free society involves.


I merely don't like standing around people who smoke, because they'll tell me about how their life is hard and how their uncle was very friendly when they where young. It's a foul stench, and I avoid people who smoke with a wide birth because it's a dirty habbit.

I'm neither side, smoke if you want to, but if someone dislikes it move away.

Do you drink or consume fatty foods? do you do what most guys do which involves the downstairs department? if the answer is yes to all three (which i'd put money on) then I suggest you clear up your dirty habits before you start lecturing the rest of society on what they can/cannot do on premises which you do not own.

How about it? maybe then, maybe then you can lecture us all.


The video is very biased, where you not only just moaning about the BBC for that very kind of thing?

Actually the video goes to those who have studied the topic rather than follow the bandwagon, and thats something the BBC will not do, has never done and which most of the mainstream media will not do.

buttons


er even if it doesn't harm us (which i believe it does) it still lingers on your clothing and makes me cough/gag. seriously when i had to live in a temp house myself, it was a non-smoking house but the guy before disregarded that and smoked anyway. the whole house smelled. ALL my clothes, even if they hadn't been worn but were just lying about SMELLED. horrible. honestly, why are you so adamant to allow public smoking in bars/clubs? because it'll get more customers? that's the pubs/clubs problem. our club here has a smoking room.... it should be up to them.

No, because you do not own the pub/bar therefore you have no input into how it is run.

If you don't like the smell, why don't you do the adult thing and not go there? its much better than this babyish attitude we have to put up with which you've just displayed which suggests that you are incapable of making your own decisions without legislation from Whitehall and Brussels.


no i haven't watched this, i'm commenting only on what you've posted which is ridiculous. of course people are going to say that second hand smoking isn't dangerous. you do realize only in the 1950s etc they didn't even know there were any health complications with first-hand smoking???? man you're stuck in the past with everything lol. it's easier and more convient for smokers to get out of the way of non-smokers than vise versa. & i'm more than happy to stay away from people whenever i do smoke. it's simple and respectful.

Then let the pub owners decide that, yeah? not you, as far as i'm aware you do not own a pub/part of a pub therefore frankly your opinion doesn't matter in the slightest just as my opinion doesn't matter in the slightest to British Airways as I don't own any shares.


I don't care about the harm it does. It's a disgusting habit that should never of happened. There are zilch benefits when it comes to smoking, and people stupid enough to take up the habit should seperate themselves and smoke outside to respect others. It's forcing respect onto people who partake in a stinky, dirty habit, because they're too selfish to remvoe themselves from the company of people who do not want to leave a place after a night out stinking of tobacco smoke.

Because we live in a free society (or we're supposed to) where we accept there are things which go on that we may not agree with or like. You know, similar to the way you often ask and rightly too 'the EU has no right to tell us to do this' - well you and the government have no right to force pub owners whether or not smoking is allowed on the premises.

[The Don]

tl;dr

Yes, we live in a free society, so if I wish to walk into a smoke-free bar, I should be entitled to. Stop thinking your opinion is superior to everyone else’s. Having a designated smoking zone is a much more practical option,and I’m not going to go into fact, but it is fairly obvious that if smoking causes illness, then inhaling the fumes second hand can’t do much good for you.

Edit:

Oh, and someone being gay has no effect on anyone else whereas second hand smoke does, what a terrible comparison.

[-:Undertaker:-]

tl;dr

Yes, we live in a free society, so if I wish to walk into a smoke-free bar, I should be entitled to. Stop thinking your opinion is superior to everyone else’s. Having a designated smoking zone is a much more practical option,and I’m not going to go into fact, but it is fairly obvious that if smoking causes illness, then inhaling the fumes second hand can’t do much good for you.

Indeed and you can because there is a market for smoke-free bars and pubs, but you must understand that it is not a right to be able to walk into a smoke free bar just as its not my right to not see gay pride on march as distasteful as I find it. Our 'rights' are to be able to do mostly what we want without others using government to prevent us from following our own self-interests.

Now what is so hard about understanding that, the basic concept of a free society?

[The Don]

Indeed and you can, but its not a right to be able to walk into a smoke free bar just as its not my right to not see gay pride on march as distasteful as I find it.

Now what is so hard about understanding that, the basic concept of a free society?

someone being gay has no effect on anyone else whereas second hand smoke does, what a terrible comparison.

[-:Undertaker:-]

someone being gay has no effect on anyone else whereas second hand smoke does, what a terrible comparison.

Oh for gods sake.

I don't like gay pride for example as I find it distasteful, cringeworthy and very pornographic. You don't like the smell of smoke because it lets say gets your clothes slightly smelly. Well in both cases, whilst we may not like or approve of what is occuring before us, because we live in a free society we accept that people can do things which we may not approve and we can then simply walk away from both scenarios.

I can only imagine the reaction of you lot if any government attempted to ban gay pride, consumption of alcohol, sex before marriage or anything along those lines. Absolute hypocrites.

[Chippiewill]

Indeed and you can because there is a market for smoke-free bars and pubs, but you must understand that it is not a right to be able to walk into a smoke free bar just as its not my right to not see gay pride on march as distasteful as I find it. Our 'rights' are to be able to do mostly what we want without others using government to prevent us from following our own self-interests.

Now what is so hard about understanding that, the basic concept of a free society?

Basic concept of free society is no death penalty, but you can't get that around your mind somehow.. Don't try and pull the rights ******** on me because clearly you have no respect for them.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Basic concept of free society is no death penalty, but you can't get that around your mind somehow.. Don't try and pull the rights ******** on me because clearly you have no respect for them.

Errr sorry where does this come from? please do not make stuff up on the spot. If I believed in anarchy (which is not a free society, please see the distinction) then I would not believe in prisons or any form of government. As it happens, I do believe in government - in as limited a role as possible which covers basic areas such as when somebody elses rights are taken (the right to life) and so forth.

[The Don]

Oh for gods sake.

I don't like gay pride for example as I find it distasteful, cringeworthy and very pornographic. You don't like the smell of smoke because it lets say gets your clothes slightly smelly. Well in both cases, whilst we may not like or approve of what is occuring before us, because we live in a free society we accept that people can do things which we may not approve and we can then simply walk away from both scenarios.

I can only imagine the reaction of you lot if any government attempted to ban gay pride, consumption of alcohol, sex before marriage or anything along those lines. Absolute hypocrites.
Smoking is bad for your health; second hand smoke has negative effects on health as well. What isn't bad for your health, however, is someone’s sexual preference or anything else that anyone does which has no physical impact on you, which is why I find it absolutely ridiculous and appalling that you would compare the two. Whether you touch yourself at night or not has no effect on me whatsoever, it won't affect my health, whereas if you blew cigarette smoke in my face, that would have a physical effect on me, get it?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Smoking is bad for your health

So is consumption of fatty foods, drinking alcohol, consuming high amounts of salt and consuming food dyes.


second hand smoke has negative effects on health as well.

No it does not, please see the video and pay attention.


What isn't bad for your health, however, is someone’s sexual preference or anything else which anyone does that has no physical impact on you, which is why I find it absolutely ridiculous and appalling that you would compare the two. Whether you touch yourself at night or not has no effect on me whatsoever, it won't affect my health, whereas if you blew cigarette smoke in my face, that would have a physical effect on me, get it?

But watching a gay pride may have a mental negative effect on me even a physical effect by making me feel sick watching (as I said before, I find it pornographic and distatseful), so what about me? but essentially you've stated above that your prime concern with smoking is the health of others. So right now i'd like you to come out in favour of banning all consumption of alcohol in public places, all consumption of salts, all consumption of fatty foods and so forth. Hey, why not go the whole hog and ban it completely seeing as you know best?

If you can't come out in favour of that, then you prove yourself a worthy hypocrite.

[GeorginaxD]

Do you drink or consume fatty foods? do you do what most guys do which involves the downstairs department? if the answer is yes to all three (which i'd put money on) then I suggest you clear up your dirty habits before you start lecturing the rest of society on what they can/cannot do on premises which you do not own.
If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, I find it highly offensive that you're calling it a dirty habit.

Anyway, all three of the things you listed as "dirty habits" have no effects on anyone apart from the person who does them. SHS has proven effects on the people who inhale it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, I find it highly offensive that you're calling it a dirty habit.

Anyway, all three of the things you listed as "dirty habits" have no effects on anyone apart from the person who does them. SHS has proven effects on the people who inhale it.

Why do you find me describing jerking off as a dirty habit 'offensive'? I am genuinely puzzled.

As for second hand smoking, please see the video for the one thousandeth time.

[The Don]

So is consumption of fattyfoods, drinking alcohol, consuming high amounts of salt and consuming fooddyes.
Which I choose to consume, people don't force that upon me,unlike smoking, so I fail to see the comparison?



No it does not,please see the video and pay attention.

I'm not going to listen to a biast propaganda video which you've linked me, I'm going to listen to all the health experts who disagree with it and also common sense.



But watching a gaypride may have a mental negative effect on me even a physical effect by makingme feel sick watching (as I said before, I find it pornographic anddistatseful), so what about me? but essentially you've stated above that yourprime concern with smoking is the health of others.


Suck it up; it isn't doing anything physical to you. Watching two men kiss each other won't give you lung cancer (I wouldn't be surprised if you tried to insinuate it did )



So right now i'd like you to come out in favour of banningall consumption of alcohol in public places, all consumption of salts, allconsumption of fatty foods and so forth. Hey, why not go the whole hog and banit completely seeing as you know best?

No because again, you drinking vodka next to me will not physically affect me, I would have to choose to drink alcohol as well to be affected which is down to my own free will, whereas when people smoke, free will is ignored as it removes choice regarding whether or not they are effected by the smoke, unless they walk out of the building, which is much more inconvenient considering there are more non-smokers than smokers and it's much more convenient for everyone if the smoker goes outside to a designated smoking zone.

[Chippiewill]

As for second hand smoking, please see the video for the one thousandeth time.
It's fairly comical that people don't actually watch it before arguing (Still, not as bad as general management not bothering to read threads before making a comment which has already been countered..), but I seriously doubt the legitimacy of their claims and it seems they handpicked testimonies to prove their argument. There is also a lot of evidence for second hand smoking as being a cause and a trigger for asthma not just for being carcinogenic second hand.

[Technologic]

Smoking is a filthy habit and one biased video does not disprove years of scientific research. Personally I feel smoking should be banned completely

[GeorginaxD]

Why do you find me describing jerking off as a dirty habit 'offensive'? I am genuinely puzzled.

As for second hand smoking, please see the video for the one thousandeth time.

Because it isn't a dirty habit.


But watching a gay pride may have a mental negative effect on me even a physical effect by making me feel sick watching (as I said before, I find it pornographic and distatseful), so what about me?

I don’t understand why you would bring even being gay up in an argument about SHS, but it must be because everyone can see your argument is false and you’re just clutching at straws.

Also, I suggest you read The Don's post very carefully because he's saying everything I'm thinking. :)

[-:Undertaker:-]

Which I choose to consume, people don't force that upon me,unlike smoking so I fail to see the comparison?

You aren't forced to consume smoke.

You move away if somebody is smoking on certain premises. :rolleyes:


I'm not going to listen to a biast propaganda video whichyou've linked me, I'm going to listen to all the health experts who disagreewith it and also common sense.

The video has the experts on it and show that the study which governments picked up on was discredited as complete and utter rubbish. But then don't let facts get in the way of an argument that you've been spoonfed by the media, the schools and by the general myth.


Suck it up; it isn't doing anything physical to you.Watching two men kiss each other won't give you lung cancer (I wouldn't be surprisedif you tried to insinuate it did )

And passive smoking won't give you lung cancer either.


No because again, you drinking vodka next to me wouldn'tphysically affect me, I would have to choose to drink alcohol as well to beaffected which is down to my own free will, whereas when people smoke, peoplesfree will are ignored as they have no choice regarding whether or not they areeffected, unless they walk out of the building, which is much more inconvenientconsidering there are more non-smokers than smokers and it's much more convenientfor everyone if the smoker goes outside to a designated smoking zone.

A free society isn't supposed to be convenient as a free society isn't ordered to the tastes of one individual.


Smoking is a filthy habit and one biased video does not disprove years of scientific research. Personally I feel smoking should be banned completely

The scientific research on the subject is bogus, anywho do you agree with banning fatty foods and alcohol? yes/no


I don’t understand why you would bring even being gay up in an argument about SHS, but it must be because everyone can see your argument is false and you’re just clutching at straws.

Also, I suggest you read The Don's post very carefully because he's saying everything I'm thinking.

Because homosexuality is the perfect example of something that isn't viewed as negative by the younger generations (HxF) but is by the older generations, so i'm testing how this generation feels (along with homosexuals themselves on this forum) feel when I suggest that aspects of homosexuality ought to be banned based on how people feel about them rather than the rights of a free society coming first.

I don't even like smoking just as I don't like gay prides, but i'll defend both of them because its wrong to tell others how to live their lives.


It's fairly comical that people don't actually watch it before arguing (Still, not as bad as general management not bothering to read threads before making a comment which has already been countered..), but I seriously doubt the legitimacy of their claims and it seems they handpicked testimonies to prove their argument. There is also a lot of evidence for second hand smoking as being a cause and a trigger for asthma not just for being carcinogenic second hand.

Let's say even if it was harmful by second hand smoking (which its not), thats still not a reason to ban it because there are risks all around us.

[Chippiewill]

The video has the experts on it and show that the study which governments picked up on was discredited as complete and utter rubbish. But then don't let facts get in the way of an argument that you've been spoonfed by the media, the schools and by the general myth.
They showed one study by the WHO to be erroneous out of quite a large amount of studies which agree that it's harmful and at many times they stated many things as fact without evidence.

[The Don]

You aren't forced to consume smoke. You move away if somebody is smoking on certain premises.


I've already mentioned, it's much more convenient for a smoker to go outside



The video has theexperts on it and show that the study which governments picked up on wasdiscredited as complete and utter rubbish. But then don't let facts get in theway of an argument that you've been spoonfed by the media, the schools and bythe general myth.


Pretty much what technologic said...



And passive smokingwon't give you lung cancer either.

Read above ^



The scientificresearch on the subject is bogus, anywho do you agree with banning fatty foodsand alcohol? yes/no

Did you not read my response to that stupid comparison the first time around?

Do you touch yourself at night? yes/no

[Technologic]

Anyways, second hand smoke makes my clothes stink and that's more than enough reason to ban it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

They showed one study by the WHO to be erroneous out of quite a large amount of studies which agree that it's harmful and at many times they stated many things as fact without evidence.

Of which the WHO is accepted as the main platform of the science, just as the debunked IPCC is with global warming. All myths eventually fall apart just as global warming just has over the past year, this myth however concerning second hand smoke is still at its height.

But in time it will fall as they all do.


I've already mentioned, it's much more convenient for asmoker to go outside

Then thats up to the pub owner who will decide based on what is good for his business which he owns.


Did you not read my response to that stupid comparison thefirst time around?

You brought up health, you truly do not care about health (as the video states, the anti-smoking lobby will often bang on about health in the patronising manner to pretend its good vs evil) as you aren't willing to protect people from themselves in terms of alcohol consumption etc.

Next time, don't pretend that you care.


Anyways, second hand smoke makes my clothes stink and that's more than enough reason to ban it.

Could you answer the question.

[GeorginaxD]

Because homosexuality is the perfect example of something that isn't viewed as negative by the younger generations (HxF) but is by the older generations, so i'm testing how this generation feels (along with homosexuals themselves on this forum) feel when I suggest that aspects of homosexuality ought to be banned based on how people feel about them rather than the rights of a free society coming first.

I don't even like smoking just as I don't like gay prides, but i'll defend both of them because its wrong to tell others how to live their lives.
So you’re admitting you’re saying homophobic things deliberately to be controversial?

I came into this thread naive to your real intentions and now shall leave knowing that this thread was made purposely for you to argue. I could continue this and say some things you wouldn’t like, but this isn’t the time or place. I suggest you do some research next time before making a thread based on one video, then you might make a thread with a real valid point.

[Technologic]

Could you answer the question.

No because drinking is fun

[The Don]

Then thats up to the pub owner who will decide based on what is good for his business which he owns.

Apparently it’s not up to the pub owner, at least, according to the law it isn’t :)



You brought up health, you truly do not care about health (as the video states, the anti-smoking lobby will often bang on about health in the patronising manner to pretend its good vs evil) as you aren't willing to protect people from themselves in terms of alcohol consumption etc.

You obviously did not read my post:
“No because again, you drinking vodka next to me will not physically affect me, I would have to choose to drink alcohol as well to be affected which is down to my own free will, whereas when people smoke, free will is ignored as it removes choice regarding whether or not they are effected by the smoke, unless they walk out of the building, which is much more inconvenient considering there are more non-smokers than smokers and it's much more convenient for everyone if the smoker goes outside to a designated smoking zone.”



Could you answer the question.
You still haven’t answered whether or not you touch yourself?

[-:Undertaker:-]

So you’re admitting you’re saying homophobic things deliberately to be controversial?

I haven't actually said anything 'homophobic' but I have listed arguments against aspects of homosexuality/homosexuality itself, yes. Why? because I love making authoritarian hypocrites squirm and recieve the other end of the stick for a change.


I came into this thread naive to your real intentions and now shall leave knowing that this thread was made purposely for you to argue. I could continue this and say some things you wouldn’t like, but this isn’t the time or place. I suggest you do some research next time before making a thread based on one video, then you might make a thread with a real valid point.

Of course I made this thread to debate, debate is far better than talk because it means you have to think.


No because drinking is fun

Sums up your case.


Apparently it’s not up to the pub owner, at least, according to the law it isn’t :)

We're not talking about the law, we're talking about how a free society works.


You obviously did not read my post:
“No because again, you drinking vodka next to me will not physically affect me, I would have to choose to drink alcohol as well to be affected which is down to my own free will, whereas when people smoke, free will is ignored as it removes choice regarding whether or not they are effected by the smoke, unless they walk out of the building, which is much more inconvenient considering there are more non-smokers than smokers and it's much more convenient for everyone if the smoker goes outside to a designated smoking zone.”


I have said, and did say that a free society is not ordered around you and non-smokers.


You still haven’t answered whether or not you touch yourself?

That was directed at Technologic and not you, i'm simply making holes in this 'disgusting habit' argument I keep seeing put forward. I'm not proposing we ban any 'dirty habits' because for all I care you can do whatever you want and how you want provided you stick to basic laws. I'm simply putting counter arguments on things which are considered dirty habits by a large section of our society which you most likely do yet don't think should be banned, for the reason that you yourself do them.

And thats wrong, because you don't own society nor have any right to order it.

[sorrydude$]

Not watching the video, and stopped reading your post on your first line.
Second hand smoking is just as bad, OR EVEN WORSE than first hand. So it should be banned altogether as an illegal drug. No questions asked, to be honest. This is a fact.

[GeorginaxD]

I haven't actually said anything 'homophobic' but I have listed arguments against aspects of homosexuality/homosexuality itself, yes. Why? because I love making authoritarian hypocrites squirm and recieve the other end of the stick for a change.

You said gay pride made you feel physically sick and have shown a big dislike for gay people. I presume this (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014) is the reason. :D

[-:Undertaker:-]

Not watching the video, and stopped reading your post on your first line.
Second hand smoking is just as bad, OR EVEN WORSE than first hand. So it should be banned altogether as an illegal drug. No questions asked, to be honest. This is a fact.

How about alcohol and fatty foods then?


You said gay pride made you feel physically sick and have shown a big dislike for gay people. I presume this (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014) is the reason. :D

I find often hairy men in tiny trunks dancing around in the street slightly repulsive, yes.

I don't dislike gay people, indeed I don't hate myself at all.

[Technologic]

I love how into internet debates you get, it's fun.


But yeah, smoking still sucks

[-:Undertaker:-]

I love how into internet debates you get, it's fun.

But yeah, smoking still sucks

Well its only like you with the student tuition fee's so hey.

Pot kettle black as they say.

[GeorginaxD]

I find often hairy men in tiny trunks dancing around in the street slightly repulsive, yes.

I don't dislike gay people at all, indeed I don't hate myself at all.
Me too, but to assume the majority of people who celebrate gay pride are "hairy men in tiny trunks dancing around in the street" is a huge insult and completely unjustified.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Me too, but to assume the majority of people who celebrate gay pride are "hairy men in tiny trunks dancing around in the street" is a huge insult and completely unjustified.

A fairly large proportion are and thats not discounting those who dress up as drag queens.

I find it distasteful, cringeworthy and embarrassing but i'd never ban it just as they shouldn't ever attempt to ban me stating what I think of that behaviour/ people smoking. You know, freedom?

[GeorginaxD]

A fairly large proportion are and thats not discounting those who dress up as drag queens.

I find it distasteful, cringeworthy and embarrassing but i'd never ban it just as they shouldn't ever attempt to ban me stating what I think of that behaviour/ people smoking. You know, freedom?

You're wrong, but even so, it's their choice to dress like that. If you don't like it just don't watch it. :)

[GommeInc]

Anyways, second hand smoke makes my clothes stink and that's more than enough reason to ban it.
Agreed. People can smoke if they want, but it should be them who respect the smart majority who do not waste their money on a pointless habit. Pub owners could make smoking rooms to cater to the smokers but at the end of the day smoking / smokers shouldn't be given priority. At least smoking in enclosed areas has been banned and is slowly putting an end to the habit. Even though I find cannabis a pointless drug, it at least does something to the body that could be considered harmless and positive, unlike smoking tobacco. Besides, it's a drain on Government and hospital resources. Tax payers shouldn't be wasting their money on smokers - particularly younger ones. The older generation (our parents and grandparents) didn't know better, so in a sense they have an excuse because the damage has been done and it was acceptable back in their day.

[IAMU2]

I agree with PrincessG.


A fairly large proportion are and thats not discounting those who dress up as drag queens.

I find it distasteful, cringeworthy and embarrassing but i'd never ban it just as they shouldn't ever attempt to ban me stating what I think of that behaviour/ people smoking. You know, freedom?

I am gay and a heavy Marijuana and Tobacco smoker (sadly). Passive smoking is harmful none the less - you would have to be a bigot (and by the looks of it, you are - even if you can 'respect' other people opinions and free rights) if you disagree. ESPECIALLY in a closed environment.

Also, people like you looking at drag queens in hate , are affected by their own self-ignorance.
People inhaling second hand smoke (cancer causing or not), are affected by other peoples self-ignorance.
Where is said freedom you speak of?

You sound uneducated and unaware (even if you are not, just comes across that way)
Re-posting - ''again watch the clip'' isn't really a counter-argument :/ You can't just focus all your opinions on ONE youtube video, have you done any other research? If so I would like see the sources :)

Smoking is a dirty habit, everyone should just get high and enjoy cancer free life haha. - it's proven that marijuana increases brain cells, unlike it's unhealthy brothers alcohol and cigarettes.. Too bad we are in a system which which cares about moneyover human life.

Seriously, I love penn and teller (especially the PETA episode of *REMOVED* - I am all for animal rights, but PETA is horrible.)



I am so glad I live in Australia.

Edited by Suspective (Forum Moderator): Please do not avoid the filter, thanks.

[Technologic]

A fairly large proportion are and thats not discounting those who dress up as drag queens.

I find it distasteful, cringeworthy and embarrassing but i'd never ban it just as they shouldn't ever attempt to ban me stating what I think of that behaviour/ people smoking. You know, freedom?

As big as your head may be you do not represent a large proportion of the british population deary

[IAMU2]

Even though I find cannabis a pointless drug, it at least does something to the body that could be considered harmless and positive, unlike smoking tobacco.

Haha I could go on FOREVER on reasons why the cannabis ban is pathetic, tax purposes!
Annoying that hemp is the toughest fibre known to man, and was used for paper, fabrics and textiles, biodegradable plastics, health food, construction and even fuel before it's ban. Imagine a world with endless supplies of resources that isn't destroying our environment?
Even the emissions from cars running off hemp, are equivalent or less than the H2O the plant gives off while growing, self efficiency and no pollution.
No deaths resulting cannabis to date. Everything you heard that was negative toward it, has been carried down and down the generations -.-'
Back in the old days, to 'prove' it was bad, they pumped so much THC into masks (worn by a monkeys) and suffocated them, as they weren't even allowing oxygen to pass. Resulting in brain cell loss and death, this is what started the 'POT IS BAD - KILLS BRAINCELLS' opinions.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You're wrong, but even so, it's their choice to dress like that. If you don't like it just don't watch it. :)

Which is what i've been saying all along.


Agreed. People can smoke if they want, but it should be them who respect the smart majority who do not waste their money on a pointless habit. Pub owners could make smoking rooms to cater to the smokers but at the end of the day smoking / smokers shouldn't be given priority. At least smoking in enclosed areas has been banned and is slowly putting an end to the habit. Even though I find cannabis a pointless drug, it at least does something to the body that could be considered harmless and positive, unlike smoking tobacco. Besides, it's a drain on Government and hospital resources. Tax payers shouldn't be wasting their money on smokers - particularly younger ones. The older generation (our parents and grandparents) didn't know better, so in a sense they have an excuse because the damage has been done and it was acceptable back in their day.

Smoking generates far more money for the Treasury than it takes, indeed if smoking were banned your taxes would rise. But that said I have a question for you, should we also ban/in part ban fatty foods to 'save the taxpayer money'?


I am gay and a heavy Marijuana and Tobacco smoker (sadly). Passive smoking is harmful none the less - you would have to be a bigot (and by the looks of it, you are - even if you can 'respect' other people opinions and free rights) if you disagree. ESPECIALLY in a closed environment.

Also, people like you looking at drag queens in hate , are affected by their own self-ignorance.
People inhaling second hand smoke (cancer causing or not), are affected by other peoples self-ignorance.
Where is said freedom you speak of?

Oh deary me it isn't harmful (SHS), please see the evidence on the topic rather than what Whitehall, the MSM and Brussels feeds you. As for my opposition to drag queens which is getting into anothet topic itself, its not due to 'self-ignorance' I just don't like the behaviour as I find it strange and creepy but I wouldn't dare ban it or support a ban on it because thats a free society.

I've often found those who shout about 'bigotry' or 'ignorance' are ignorant themselves.


You sound uneducated and unaware (even if you are not, just comes across that way)
Re-posting - ''again watch the clip'' isn't really a counter-argument :/ You can't just focus all your opinions on ONE youtube video, have you done any other research? If so I would like see the sources :)

Here are the statistics laid out for you; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1556118/Christopher-Bookers-notebook.html


In 1998 and 2003 came the results of by far the biggest studies of passive smoking ever carried out. One was conducted by the International Agency for Research on Cancer, part of the World Health Organisation. The other, run by Prof James Enstrom and Geoffrey Kabat for the American Cancer Society, was a mammoth 40-year-long study of 35,000 non-smokers living with smokers. In each case, when the sponsors saw the results they were horrified. The evidence inescapably showed that passive smoking posed no significant risk. This confirmed Sir Richard Doll's own comment in 2001: "The effects of other people's smoking in my presence is so small it doesn't worry me".

In each case, the sponsors tried to suppress the results, which were only with difficulty made public (the fact that Enstrom and Kabat, both non-smokers, could only get their results published with help from the tobacco industry was inevitably used to discredit them, even though all their research had been financed by the anti-tobacco cancer charity).


Smoking is a dirty habit, everyone should just get high and enjoy cancer free life haha. - it's proven that marijuana increases brain cells, unlike it's unhealthy brothers alcohol and cigarettes.. Too bad we are in a system which which cares about moneyover human life.

All are unhealthy just as drugs like Marijuana and Cannabis have effects on mental health. I'm not here to debate whether they are good for you or unhealthy as i've made that quite clear, i'm simply making the case that all of them should be allowed rather than this silly game you want to play which allows for dangerous drugs such as Cannabis etc to be legalised so you can turn your brain into mush whilst banning cigarettes under the pretext of 'for your own good'.

Its for your own good to stop smoking Marijuana yet i'm not going to attempt to stop you because its your choice. The same viewpoint applies to smokers, alcohol drinkers and everything else that I may dislike/disapprove of.


As big as your head may be you do not represent a large proportion of the british population deary

'Big head' says you of all people, but lets take a quick look at this,

I represent the majority who want to leave the EU, you represent the minority who want to stay in.
I represent the majority who want to curb immigration, you represent the minority who want the floodgates open.
I represent the majority who want less government interference, you represent the minority who want more.

The bottom line is that i'll take no lectures from a teenager with a wealthy family who moans about student fees but who flies around the world on expensive holidays that the rest of us could only dream of, no sir-ry.

[GeorginaxD]

Which is what i've been saying all along.

I guess you didn't get the joke. :P

Anyway, it seems pretty clear this thread is everyone vs Undertaker. :D

[GommeInc]

Smoking generates far more money for the Treasury than it takes, indeed if smoking were banned your taxes would rise. But that said I have a question for you, should we also ban/in part ban fatty foods to 'save the taxpayer money'?
Of course not, eating fatty foods has its benefits and doesn't make those around you stink :P But of course, life is filled with hypocritical comments. Though smoking raises a lot of money (tax wise), it's still a pretty vulgar habit but that's just how opinions operate. There doesn't seem to be any backing for reinstating smoking in pubs, possibly due to society slowly moving away from it. It was slowly becoming unpopular before the ban was ever put in place because non-smokers in their large numbers were put off by bars, clubs and pubs stinking of smoke (which now smell of vomit and body odour, but we shall ignore that :P)

People are allowed the choice, but ultimately smoking is an off putting habit for many people and you cannot please everyone. That said, I can not see the harm in some places allowing smoking inside in either special rooms or in the main communal area at the manager's discretion. Presumably they hold the keys to the business and understand what people do and do not want. Heck, more places might open up if they are smoker specific.

[iAdam]

No it does not, see again.



I will dispute it just as we can dispute that it causes cancer. I cannot believe the attitude of some people on here who think that they have a right to remove something which they do not like via the force of the law. It absolutely annoys the hell out of me, worse still these are the same people who talk about 'the dark days' of when homosexuality was banned - which in part is true because why should the government ban what people do in their own bedrooms or what people smoke in their own bars, clubs and pubs?


Do you drink or consume fatty foods? do you do what most guys do which involves the downstairs department? if the answer is yes to all three (which i'd put money on) then I suggest you clear up your dirty habits before you start lecturing the rest of society on what they can/cannot do on premises which you do not own.

How about it? maybe then, maybe then you can lecture us all.
-snip-

tl;dr

But, that post isn't worth the space in which it's kept. Smoking does cause health issues, you can't dispute it. 'Dirty' habits such as eating fatty foods only affect the one individual, not anyone else in the vicinity so therefore is up to the individual person. But when another person is put off going to a bar because of people smoking, then surely it's up to the person smoking to allow the person to have the free society in which they can enjoy themselves without having to breath in smoke. But maybe that's too common sensical.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I guess you didn't get the joke. :P

Anyway, it seems pretty clear this thread is everyone vs Undertaker. :D

I take it in my stride. :P


Of course not, eating fatty foods has its benefits and doesn't make those around you stink :P But of course, life is filled with hypocritical comments. Though smoking raises a lot of money (tax wise), it's still a pretty vulgar habit but that's just how opinions operate. There doesn't seem to be any backing for reinstating smoking in pubs, possibly due to society slowly moving away from it. It was slowly becoming unpopular before the ban was ever put in place because non-smokers in their large numbers were put off by bars, clubs and pubs stinking of smoke (which now smell of vomit and body odour, but we shall ignore that :P)

A society which is ruled by the biggest mob isn't and cannot be a free society.


People are allowed the choice, but ultimately smoking is an off putting habit for many people and you cannot please everyone. That said, I can not see the harm in some places allowing smoking inside in either special rooms or in the main communal area at the manager's discretion. Presumably they hold the keys to the business and understand what people do and do not want. Heck, more places might open up if they are smoker specific.

There are a lot of off putting habits, many of which you will find off-putting but I won't and the same the other way around. That doesn't mean they ought to be banned because I have no right to tell you how to live your life just as you have no right to tell me how to live my life. The same principal applies to telling landlords (of which you are not) what they can and cannot do on their own premises.

Remove legislation from the issue and you'll have both smoking pubs and smoke-free pubs, problem solved.


tl;dr

But, that post isn't worth the space in which it's kept. Smoking does cause health issues, you can't dispute it. 'Dirty' habits such as eating fatty foods only affect the one individual, not anyone else in the vicinity so therefore is up to the individual person.

I'm arguing about second hand smoke which is a myth that has been debuked, not smoking itself which does carry a risk there's no doubt just as alcohol carries a risk, walking outside and crossing the road carries a risk and so forth. But with fatty foods you could also argue (as some have touched upon) that they do affect you as you have to pay for all the obesity problems which arise from eating fatty foods.

So why is nobody here calling for a ban on fatty foods?


But when another person is put off going to a bar because of people smoking, then surely it's up to the person smoking to allow the person to have the free society in which they can enjoy themselves without having to breath in smoke. But maybe that's too common sensical.

No, thats down to the business owner who then decides which course of action is best for his own personal opinion and his business itself. A free society isn't about having what you want (well it is) but its also about accepting that there are activities which will go on around you which you do not like or even hate.

Otherwise, who is to say who will organise this society and to what preferences?

[The Don]

I take it in my stride. :P



A society which is ruled by the biggest mob isn't and cannot be a free society.



There are a lot of off putting habits, many of which you will find off-putting but I won't and the same the other way around. That doesn't mean they ought to be banned because I have no right to tell you how to live your life just as you have no right to tell me how to live my life. The same principal applies to telling landlords (of which you are not) what they can and cannot do on their own premises.

Remove legislation from the issue and you'll have both smoking pubs and smoke-free pubs, problem solved.



I'm arguing about second hand smoke which is a myth that has been debuked, not smoking itself which does carry a risk there's no doubt just as alcohol carries a risk, walking outside and crossing the road carries a risk and so forth. But with fatty foods you could also argue (as some have touched upon) that they do affect you as you have to pay for all the obesity problems which arise from eating fatty foods.

So why is nobody here calling for a ban on fatty foods?



No, thats down to the business owner who then decides which course of action is best for his own personal opinion and his business itself. A free society isn't about having what you want (well it is) but its also about accepting that there are activities which will go on around you which you do not like or even hate.

Otherwise, who is to say who will organise this society and to what preferences?

Are you too dumb or just too close minded to be able to comprehend what we’re saying?!

BECAUSE EATING FATTY FOODS ONLY AFFECTS THE INDIVIDUAL CONSUMING THEM, NOT EVERYONE IN THE VACINITY.

[GommeInc]

A society which is ruled by the biggest mob isn't and cannot be a free society.

There are a lot of off putting habits, many of which you will find off-putting but I won't and the same the other way around. That doesn't mean they ought to be banned because I have no right to tell you how to live your life just as you have no right to tell me how to live my life. The same principal applies to telling landlords (of which you are not) what they can and cannot do on their own premises.

Remove legislation from the issue and you'll have both smoking pubs and smoke-free pubs, problem solved.
But surely if the majority of a population believe something is wrong, is that not the base for national culture. It isn't mob culture per se.

But in a free country, wouldn't people be allowed to freely ask to have someone put their cigarette out? What if it's not just one person against an individual smoking? Although the smoker has the right to freely do what he pleases, do the "mob" not have that right to freely eat or drink at a pub without the smell, too? Surely the inability to ask in a free country deminishes the very core of being in a free country? :P If a smoker is putting off people from eating and drinking at a bar, shouldn't they do so out of respect rather than use "freedom of expression" as their life line?

[Ajthedragon]

I don't care about the harm it does. It's a disgusting habit that should never of happened. There are zilch benefits when it comes to smoking, and people stupid enough to take up the habit should seperate themselves and smoke outside to respect others. It's forcing respect onto people who partake in a stinky, dirty habit, because they're too selfish to remvoe themselves from the company of people who do not want to leave a place after a night out stinking of tobacco smoke.

I'm with this. All my family smoke, minus the young and it's an awful habit and they make me stink.

Fortunately my 80 year-old Nan has seen the light of day (only took her 65 years, see anyone can stop) and as has my Dad.

I'm all for the ban in public spaces still, I don't want to breathe in others smoke and I shouldn't have to do so.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Are you too dumb or just too close minded to be able to comprehend what we’re saying?!

Oh my lord, to make it easy this time round, i've seperated the two sticking points (see below) and await your reply.


BECAUSE EATING FATTY FOODS ONLY AFFECTS THE INDIVIDUAL CONSUMING THEM, NOT EVERYONE IN THE VACINITY.

Those around will ultimately have to pick up the tab in healthcare costs, therefore it does effect those around them. So would you now like to come out in favour of banning fatty foods, along with stating yourself that you do not consume fatty foods as an individual?

If you want to use the example of 'effects people directly' then I direct you back to the gay pride example where it does affect people who to not approve mentally and can make them feel reviled by the displays. Now, have they not a 'right' to decency according to their taste when they walk in public places?

So two scenarios there and hopefully you'll give a proper reply this time, instead of repeating the same drivel and accusing me of not being able to understand what you are saying.


But surely if the majority of a population believe something is wrong, is that not the base for national culture. It isn't mob culture per se.

Because only certain issues can be decided via democracy such as EU membership for example, issues such as this (where you can walk away from something you do not like) are judged on liberty and not on mob rule which is what democracy often turns into and self-destructs as people use government as a tool to tell others how to live and take financially from the other side.


But in a free country, wouldn't people be allowed to freely ask to have someone put their cigarette out?

Yeah they would, and if they don't own the property that they are asking the smoker to put out the cigarette on then the smoker can decline. If however they do own the premises and they ask the smoker to put out the cigarette then the smoker has to put out the cigarettes due to property rights.

Its really a simple system and its how we get along in life, as opposed to following government legislation.


What if it's not just one person against an individual smoking? Although the smoker has the right to freely do what he pleases, do the "mob" not have that right to freely eat or drink at a pub without the smell, too? Surely the inability to ask in a free country deminishes the very core of being in a free country? :P If a smoker is putting off people from eating and drinking at a bar, shouldn't they do so out of respect rather than use "freedom of expression" as their life line?

No because property rights form the core of a free society. The ultimate decision rests with the property owner, if all landlords decide not to allow any smoking on premises then that is a free society because it is done on the basis of 'I own these premises and not the government, therefore my rules are enforced'. Of course it would never be 100% against smoking or 100% for smoking amongst landlords because landlords themselves will have views on the topic along with catering to what their customers want.


I'm with this. All my family smoke, minus the young and it's an awful habit and they make me stink.

Fortunately my 80 year-old Nan has seen the light of day (only took her 65 years, see anyone can stop) and as has my Dad.

I'm all for the ban in public spaces still, I don't want to breathe in others smoke and I shouldn't have to do so.

I don't like the trousers you wear or the hairstyle you wear, would you like to be at the end of my ban? See, I shouldn't have to see those awful trousers you wear when i'm in the high street.

Sound ridiculous? same argument you advocate, different example.

[IAMU2]

I've often found those who shout about 'bigotry' or 'ignorance' are ignorant themselves.
Classic.


Oh deary me it isn't harmful (SHS), please see the evidence on the topic

"The effects of other people's smoking in my presence is so small it doesn't worry me"

None the less, there are effects and this doesn't go down well with non-smokers, visually, they can see you, and physically, the smell, the minor effects. Whereas your drag queen argument is completely lacking intelligent response, look away.. Don't rant in a forum how you don't like drag queens, yet want to 'respect' other peoples decisions in life. Tobacco kills 15,000 people a day - one person every six seconds, yet cannabis, has killed no-one, not even a hint of cancer. I will give the article a good read when I get home - you need to do some hard research on my cannabis isn't legalized buddy, 'mental illness brain mush'.. Haha. Get informed.

Ps; I am not influenced by anyone European at all, I despise the British government and want none of that.

And also, "you do not represent a large proportion of the british population deary" - was a FACT. Don't go raging at someone because they also have an opinion, how do you think they feel- you just revealing their personal life details eh?


Sucks being the minority?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Classic.

Oh indeed its true, just look at your reaction to my proposal to ban gay prides "bigot" and all the rest thats thrown at conservative comments like that, but when you propose to ban smoking somehow thats not at all facist-like. I want to allow both even if I may not agree, you wish to ban what you dont like and allow what you do like.


None the less, there are effects and this doesn't go down well with non-smokers, visually, they can see you, and physically, the smell, the minor effects. Whereas your drag queen argument is completely lacking intelligent response, look away.. Don't rant in a forum how you don't like drag queens, yet want to 'respect' other peoples decisions in life.

Oh I agree with you that I should simply look away, just as you should walk away from cigarette smoke.


Tobacco kills 15,000 people a day - one person every six seconds, yet cannabis, has killed no-one, not even a hint of cancer. I will give the article a good read when I get home - you need to do some hard research on my cannabis isn't legalized buddy, 'mental illness brain mush'.. Haha. Get informed.

I know why cannabis isn't legalised, because people in your mindset (the same mindset, just concerning tobacco) think that they know better than cannabis consumers/smokers. I would legalise it tommorow without any restrictions, if you wish to destroy your mind with cannabis along with others drugs then you can do so just as smokers choose to increase their risk to other disease by smoking.

I don't and never have smoked either, but do I want to restrict either like you do? no.


And also, "you do not represent a large proportion of the british population deary" - was a FACT. Don't go raging at someone because they also have an opinion, how do you think they feel- you just revealing their personal life details eh?

Sucks being the minority?

Well i've just given examples of how i'm in the majority concerning most issues which range from our membership of the European Union, mass immigration, the Monarchy, foreign policy, education, crime and justice....... but if you want to ignore all of that thats just fine, doesn't bode well for your attempt to make me out as some crackpot minority though.

[GirlNextDoor15]

Personally I feel smoking should be banned completely

Banning smoking completely won't help to solve the problem. What needs to be done is to educate them about the disadvantages of smoking.


So it should be banned altogether as an illegal drug. No questions asked, to be honest. This is a fact.

Like I said. It's not going to help.


Anyways, second hand smoke makes my clothes stink and that's more than enough reason to ban it.

So is going to Mcdonald's and all those fast food outlets.


Smoking is a dirty habit, everyone should just get high and enjoy cancer free life haha. - it's proven that marijuana increases brain cells, unlike it's unhealthy brothers alcohol and cigarettes..

How can you enjoy cancer free life when you consume junk food and smoke pot? Smoking IS a DIRTY HABIT. But, it is not the only reason why you get lung cancer etc. How can marijuana increases brain cells? :S If you want a healthy life, I suggest you to backpack and live in the mountain. :L

[Ajthedragon]

I don't like the trousers you wear or the hairstyle you wear, would you like to be at the end of my ban? See, I shouldn't have to see those awful trousers you wear when i'm in the high street.

Sound ridiculous? same argument you advocate, different example.

Does it effect the way you smell? Oh wait no, so it's not the same argument, different example.

It's effecting my smell (people often ask if I smoke, to which I rage), therefore I shouldn't have to breathe it or have to smell of it.

---------- Post added 22-12-2011 at 10:57 AM ----------

Also they won't ban it because it creates a lot of tax revenue. :P

[The Don]

Those around will ultimately have to pick up the tab in healthcare costs, therefore it does effect those around them. So would you now like to come out in favour of banning fatty foods, along with stating yourself that you do not consume fatty foods as an individual?

Wow... What a laughable comparison, i'm leaving this debate as you are clearly wrong which is why you've resulted to using ridiculous comparisons. Even if your argument was slightly justified (which it is not) the people around them wouldn't pick up on the health tab due to the NHS. If, however, people eating fatty foods did directly affect those around them, then yes, I would be in favor of banning fatty foods in public areas but considering this isn't the case and the fact that you've got such skewed beliefs and are clearly too ignorant to reason with, i'm leaving the debate.

[HotelUser]

I don't care about the harm it does. It's a disgusting habit that should never of happened. There are zilch benefits when it comes to smoking, and people stupid enough to take up the habit should seperate themselves and smoke outside to respect others. It's forcing respect onto people who partake in a stinky, dirty habit, because they're too selfish to remvoe themselves from the company of people who do not want to leave a place after a night out stinking of tobacco smoke.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

[FiftyCal]

It's all a myth, they say it can kill people and give them lung cancer, but i really don't think it does. If it's sooooo bad for people because of them being in a room full of smoke, how come no one gets addicted to smoking after being in the environment full of smoke?

They shouldn't ban smoking in pubs, because that's just the tradition of smoking and drinking. It feels great to light one up while having a beer. They should unban smoking in pubs and put signs on the front doors saying "SMOKING ALLOWED" so people that don't want to be caught in the smokey environment don't have to be there. Now i can understand banning smoking in a bar thats also inside a restaurant that everyone including kids can visit, but not in standalone bars! Come on!

[FlyingJesus]

Why has no-one just said outright that cancer isn't the only negative effect of tobacco smoke and left it at that? Even if 2nd hand smoking doesn't cause the same disease that literally everything in the modern world is claimed to cause, there are other proven adverse effects and I find it hilarious that someone who believes themself to be a libertarian doesn't think that something which actively affects other people ought to be regulated.

Hey Dan guess what? Cancer is not the only harmful thing in the world, nor is it the only thing that tobacco smoke is said to cause - yet it IS the only thing which is contested in this "proof" video. I'm fully for pubs and clubs that allow smoking so in terms of legislation we're probably on the same page, but claiming that there is no negative effect of second hand smoke is preposterous, especially when it's based on a video that only serves to cast doubt on the chances of it causing lung cancer and not taking anything else into consideration

[-:Undertaker:-]

Banning smoking completely won't help to solve the problem. What needs to be done is to educate them about the disadvantages of smoking.

Why not go the whole hog and regulate sex to prevent the spread of HIV/STDs?


How can you enjoy cancer free life when you consume junk food and smoke pot? Smoking IS a DIRTY HABIT. But, it is not the only reason why you get lung cancer etc. How can marijuana increases brain cells? :S If you want a healthy life, I suggest you to backpack and live in the mountain. :L

I don't smoke pot, I never have and have no intention of doing so just as I have never even taken a puff of a cigarette and do not intend to and why? because I think they are both stupid and not to mention expensive. But do I have a right to tell others not to smoke in a pub of which I do not own? no, I do not.

In the same way I have no right to bar militant homosexuals from staging parades.


Does it effect the way you smell? Oh wait no, so it's not the same argument, different example.

I couldn't care less how you smell, you could smell of BO for all I care - is that any of my business or the business of the state? no. Is it your business or the business of the state that people smoke and sometimes the smell lingers on your clothes because you were too stupid to move away? no, of course not.


It's effecting my smell (people often ask if I smoke, to which I rage), therefore I shouldn't have to breathe it or have to smell of it.

I shouldn't have to look at your clothes, smell the aftershave you wear or smell body odours which might arise from you. But then the thought occurs to me that actually, I don't run society and would never intend to.


Wow... What a laughable comparison, i'm leaving this debate as you are clearly wrong which is why you've resulted to using ridiculous comparisons. Even if your argument was slightly justified (which it is not) the people around them wouldn't pick up on the health tab due to the NHS. If, however, people eating fatty foods did directly affect those around them, then yes, I would be in favor of banning fatty foods in public areas but considering this isn't the case and the fact that you've got such skewed beliefs and are clearly too ignorant to reason with, i'm leaving the debate.

The money comes out of my wallet for people eating fatty foods/salty foods. This directly affects me as the government is removing money from my wallet and my family to pay for the health treatment of these people. To claim this doesn't affect me assumes that you think the government owns what we earn.

I'd urge you and others to be careful of what you wish to tell others to do and how to do it, because one day a government might attempt to severely restrict some of the things you do under a whole banner of excuses just like the ones you trot out.


It's all a myth, they say it can kill people and give them lung cancer, but i really don't think it does. If it's sooooo bad for people because of them being in a room full of smoke, how come no one gets addicted to smoking after being in the environment full of smoke?

They shouldn't ban smoking in pubs, because that's just the tradition of smoking and drinking. It feels great to light one up while having a beer. They should unban smoking in pubs and put signs on the front doors saying "SMOKING ALLOWED" so people that don't want to be caught in the smokey environment don't have to be there. Now i can understand banning smoking in a bar thats also inside a restaurant that everyone including kids can visit, but not in standalone bars! Come on!

Oh no you see, most of this lot support proposals such as legalising illegal drugs (as do I) which will have an effect on some people if it were legalised, but don't think that we are capable of walking out of a bar if we don't approve of the smoke. They're all so concerned for their health, yet i'm betting the majority stuff their faces with bad foods, get wasted every weekend, get spliffed up and no doubt sleep around - and i'm supposed to take them seriously when they fret to me about the myths of second hand smoke.

Question anything in their orthodoxy (like gay marriage, like legalising drugs) and they'll turn around and accuse you of interfering in the lives of others which is true yet they appear to think that its just fine for them to use government to keep their clothes from smelling of smoke (which frankly, I couldn't care less as I don't recall there being a mandate for government to regulate smells).


Why has no-one just said outright that cancer isn't the only negative effect of tobacco smoke and left it at that? Even if 2nd hand smoking doesn't cause the same disease that literally everything in the modern world is claimed to cause, there are other proven adverse effects and I find it hilarious that someone who believes themself to be a libertarian doesn't think that something which actively affects other people ought to be regulated.

Then you don't understand what libertarianism is about. It is the opposite of libertarianism to suggest that some things which affect people (by choice of walking into a bar) ought to be banned by the state.

The role of the state is the bare minimum, to provide courts in which actions such as theft and murder are dealt with (a conclusive and proper action which directly affects others) and to provide the national defence. It is not to regulate trivial things such as whether or not smoking can be allowed. Because if you are to legislation on the grounds of every single risk posed to human beings, then we'd have no freedoms left and every company would be bankrupt due to claims of death/health deterioration from fats, to salts, to dyes.

A libertarian says - judge yourself whether to walk into the smokey bar, don't let the government do it for you.


Hey Dan guess what? Cancer is not the only harmful thing in the world, nor is it the only thing that tobacco smoke is said to cause - yet it IS the only thing which is contested in this "proof" video. I'm fully for pubs and clubs that allow smoking so in terms of legislation we're probably on the same page, but claiming that there is no negative effect of second hand smoke is preposterous, especially when it's based on a video that only serves to cast doubt on the chances of it causing lung cancer and not taking anything else into consideration

I don't pretend that somebody with a bad throat walking into a smoky bar won't have health problems, indeed it could bring on other health problems there and then and result in immediate death. But the problem lies with the fact that that person took the risk and went into the smoke-free bar in the first place, not with the smokers or anyone else. The same logic applies to somebody with a heart condition who took the risk to go on a rollercoaster/a loud event and dies from a heart attack.

We all take risks and so we should, because its right to have the freedom to do so.

[GoldenMerc]

It's not hard to go outside of a pub/club/bar to have a quick smoke and it's much more convenient, so in that sense, it should be banned from inside public places.
I agree with this, its just being lazy not to...

[JackJones]

I think you can do what you want whenever you want.

I have a story related to this. I was in this outdoor bar in kenya a year back. Me and my friend start smoking a joint. We were having a great time when this sonuva came over to us and ordered, not asked, ordered us to stop. Well i was having none of this. Me and my friend calmly told this guy to *REMOVED*, and that it was outside so he should mind his own business.

Anyway the guy left. But 5 minutes later he came over with 3 more of his "asociates" and asked us more agresively to stop. Well we had no choice at this point. He marched us out of the bar, and i think one of the men was inclined to the male side as he would only push me out by pushing my ass. To make things worse, my idiot of a friend had left 2 grams of weed back on the table at the bar that we were just kicked out of.

Tl;dr , Stupid intolerant fools ruined my day.

Edited by Infectious (Forum Moderator): Please do not avoid the filter!