Why aren't we told?

[Eoin247]

I'm just wondering why we aren't told straight out why things happen on the forum and instead it takes a few feedback threads to discover the 'entire' story?

I am of course talking about bans, temp bans, firings etc. In my school when somebody is expelled or suspended it is announced who, why and for how long on the announcement board, why not do the same on the forum? I can't see any reason why we aren't just told straight out, and instead rumours (sometimes horribly untrue) have to fly around the forum.

I'll use a recent example for my point here. Luke got temp banned for being hacked. It took a long time and a lot of posts to find out the entire story (and even then there seems to be some speculation). Why not just outright post a thread detailing why a person is banned or fired? It stops untrue rumours, satisfies members, shows other members/staff what they shouldn't do or they will be banned/fired and it gets rid of this closed information policy this forum seems to have.

There seems to be absolutely no benefit to not officially announcing why things happen.


Also on a side note, don't start closing feedback threads that are doing no harm and are generating good discussion (the "luke ban" threads).

[Mathew]

I think this is quite an awkward situation because there's two credible sides to it. I would expect that the main reason for the hushed talk surrounding dismissals is to prevent any embarrassment which may occur from it. If we dismiss xxMATTGxx, he can continue to use the forum with his integrity intact. If it was announced that he was fired due to being a paedophile, then everyone would hate him and he may cry.. or something. I'm not saying MG is a paedo.. well he might be. How do I know?.. :O!!

Then again on the other hand, everyone is bound to find out sooner or later and we all manage to discover why people were dismissed. I think with firings, I'd rather it be kept between management and the user in question. This isn't a place to nose around and/or poke fun at people (although it can be I suppose...)!

I don't really care why people are temp banned and I think there's far too many to even consider announcing them all. Teacher reprimands aren't announced on your notice board because it's unprofessional - the same applies here. These issues are not public matters as they don't concern anyone other than the user in question.

In that respect, I disagree with GM giving a reason for each and every personal issue. I do however think that there should be more frequent updates regarding the recent lack of uptime. Chances are that the regular members will return regardless of how long it's down, so we might aswell be told the whole story! :P


Also on a side note, don't start closing feedback threads that are doing no harm and are generating good discussion (the "luke ban" threads).
Yeah good point. The problem is that both sides of the argument get defensive which further escalates the discussion. If people just agree to disagree or figure a compromise, the thread would be on the second page within days and nobody would care anymore!

[Catzsy]

I'm just wondering why we aren't told straight out why things happen on the forum and instead it takes a few feedback threads to discover the 'entire' story?

I am of course talking about bans, temp bans, firings etc. In my school when somebody is expelled or suspended it is announced who, why and for how long on the announcement board, why not do the same on the forum? I can't see any reason why we aren't just told straight out, and instead rumours (sometimes horribly untrue) have to fly around the forum.

I'll use a recent example for my point here. Luke got temp banned for being hacked. It took a long time and a lot of posts to find out the entire story (and even then there seems to be some speculation). Why not just outright post a thread detailing why a person is banned or fired? It stops untrue rumours, satisfies members, shows other members/staff what they shouldn't do or they will be banned/fired and it gets rid of this closed information policy this forum seems to have.

There seems to be absolutely no benefit to not officially announcing why things happen.


Also on a side note, don't start closing feedback threads that are doing no harm and are generating good discussion (the "luke ban" threads).

I think this is pretty much explained in the stickied thread at the top of the forum:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=272477&p=2649843#post2649843

Personally I feel that it is a matter that should be confined to those involved unless they wish to tell other members. I think the system in your school is a bit odd tbh - it is like in medieval times when they put people in the stocks and must be very embarrassing for the pupils involved. If you worked for a company they would not make the reasons for firing or suspending employees public to the work force. The reasons for closing threads discussing bans is because they are not allowed and as you can see from the date on the stickie this has been un force for a very long time. One thing that maybe a good idea although I don't know if it is possible is to add 'safety ban' to the reasons for a ban then people would realise what it was without having to ask.

[xxMATTGxx]

I'm just wondering why we aren't told straight out why things happen on the forum and instead it takes a few feedback threads to discover the 'entire' story?

I am of course talking about bans, temp bans, firings etc. In my school when somebody is expelled or suspended it is announced who, why and for how long on the announcement board, why not do the same on the forum? I can't see any reason why we aren't just told straight out, and instead rumours (sometimes horribly untrue) have to fly around the forum.

I'll use a recent example for my point here. Luke got temp banned for being hacked. It took a long time and a lot of posts to find out the entire story (and even then there seems to be some speculation). Why not just outright post a thread detailing why a person is banned or fired? It stops untrue rumours, satisfies members, shows other members/staff what they shouldn't do or they will be banned/fired and it gets rid of this closed information policy this forum seems to have.

There seems to be absolutely no benefit to not officially announcing why things happen.


Also on a side note, don't start closing feedback threads that are doing no harm and are generating good discussion (the "luke ban" threads).

Your school seems odd in my opinion, when I was in school or even in college they don't announce why people have been kicked out. It's none of our business I feel and if they were in the "class" of that person then they normally find out by one of their friends in the first place. But they do not officially announce they have been kicked out because he or she has done whatever. I don't think it's right at all we should start announcing why people get banned on the forum or why staff members get fired and it's something I don't think that will change.

Now if there was a security risk or an exploit that we could warn our users about then we would 100% do that but there was no exploit and Luke was hacked via a normal method that has been used over and over again over the many months Habbo has been running.

In terms of closing feedback threads, I see where you are going but at some point if a discussion has gone too far in the eyes of Management and we do not wish to discuss it further or no changes are going to come from the thread. Then what is the point in thread being open? I suppose people can reply to agree or disagree but it still doesn't mean we will take it on board and change anything.

I don't see any benefit of actually announcing why people get banned/temp banned or fired on the forum. To me the only advantage of that is for people who are nosey and want to find out and this would make their lives easier without having to ask people.




If we dismiss xxMATTGxx, he can continue to use the forum with his integrity intact. If it was announced that he was fired due to being a paedophile, then everyone would hate him and he may cry.. or something. I'm not saying MG is a paedo.. well he might be. How do I know?.

It's not the fact that I would cry or not, I just don't feel those type of things should be announced. To be that would be a breach of privacy. I'm sure the Police and the user in question wouldn't like us announcing that someone has been banned and deleted off the forum because they are paedophile. If we use that example that is :P

[Inseriousity.]

There's always going to be speculation, stories, rumours regardless of the truth. I imagine you can think of an example in your school where the story about a pupil's suspension was announced and despite that, there were still whispers and rumours that the school hadn't told the whole truth. The problem is that there are two sides to every story and I think it would be unfair of management to post their version of events without giving the chance for the other side of the story, which will inevitably be passed around by said person and so things become distorted.

As for management closing threads, I think it's absolutelyunnecessary and shouldn't be used as a 'get out of arguing free' card. Threads die. They become yesterday's news if you just leave them alone. I don't think anyone would see anything wrong with general management stating their position then just leaving the thread and if a thread refuses to die then perhaps management should take a further look into it.

[Mr-Trainor]

I disagree with being told why people are dismissed, as it should be the persons choice as to whether they want to tell people the reason, or keep it to themselves. I'm surprised your school announces suspensions and things like that :P!

[Samantha]

I got banned and fired on my old account and if someone asks why I will come straight out and tell them; I feel in due course it's upto the person who received the punishment if they want to tell someone. Like said above, there is two sides to every story and yeah the bad side to my story is I 'account shared' but the positive side is that I did it for a nice reason to help out a friend who was being bullied. Now, if it had been announced why I was fired, then you'd have lost me sometime ago as I would have lost trust etc. but it wasn't announced and I was allowed a second chance (after 11 months) and it has seriously paid off in that time. What I'm saying is, the person who gets fired and/or banned may want to return to Habbox's workforce so why show them up and make it awkward for them?

Maybe, giving an example why Luke was banned as a safety measure is enough to be announced (if put in a warning about safety) but not in a general fire/ban method.

[Richie]

I'm going to be blunt, it's none of your business.

[HotelUser]

I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea, but if someone already has to be dismissed from a department at Habbox, it would just be even more humiliating if everyone was told the exact reason as to why they were being dismissed.

[Chippiewill]

Your school seems odd in my opinion, when I was in school or even in college they don't announce why people have been kicked out.

My school does it as well, although I don't agree with it. One my friends parents threatened to sue the school for defamation if they disclosed the unjustified reason for his suspension. (My old head master used to be more bothered about the appearance of the school than the well-being of the school, so public mockery of those punished seemed important to him).

Essentially whilst it might be the staff member's fault the firing / pain of being hacked is enough, having being made fun of / bullied / publicly outed really isn't fair.

[Grig]

I am of course talking about bans, temp bans, firings etc. In my school when somebody is expelled or suspended it is announced who, why and for how long on the announcement board, why not do the same on the forum? I can't see any reason why we aren't just told straight out, and instead rumours (sometimes horribly untrue) have to fly around the forum.

This never happened in my school, nor would I want to start demoralizing people by stating embarrassing things like that. The system is fine as it is and there is really no need to go out there and start playing the name and shame game. In the long-run this would cause more slating and negativity towards individual users on the forum as well.

Most people find out anyway as it is :p. The system works on discretion on whether a dismissal is or isn't in the persons control. I actually do think quite a few people were getting a bit feisty of recent dismissals and as it is the forum is more open than it has been in the past. Threads shouldn't be closed because there is nothing like healthy and constructive discussion, as long as they abide by the rules.

[GommeInc]

Depends on the situation, but from recent discussions with management the simple answer to this question is: It does not concern you. It's this melancholy dogma and belief that seems to be set in stone and is therefore unquestionable. Despite everyone knowing that the truth will out, as Shakespeare well put it - that the reasons for any bans, firing etc. will eventually be told to or found out by the masses.

I'm not entirely sure why embarassment is dragged up. It's the internet, why be so serious? If my account was compromised I'd probably tell people. Nothing serious has ever happened to Habbox, nothing a back-up can't solve. It's not like someone has set fire to an imaginary Habbox Headquarters, killed a few members and then gone on to commit suicide. Stop pretending it's a conglomerate and treat it like a fansite forum - Organised, yet community driven. Nothing is worse than a "them and us" mentality.

That said, I've been told of very serious things that have happened here, and those things are best kept secret as they are of a legal issue (though it wouldn't surprise me they're in the public domain anyway) ;)

[beth]

i don't know what schools you people went to but our school would never release information like that to other pupils. why does anyone else have the right to know what's going on unless yr directly involved? just because you WANT to know, you don't NEED to know.

things like server problems, i agree should be more open. but firing/hiring/banning is none of anyone elses business apart from the person who is banned and the person that banned them.

[GommeInc]

things like server problems, i agree should be more open. but firing/hiring/banning is none of anyone elses business apart from the person who is banned and the person that banned them.
The speculation itself causes more damage, as it's left down to the imagination of the users that bicker amongst themselves :P It's all in the presentation. If people shouldn't be told, be honest and say they shouldn't and why e.g. it's not fair for the user in question. In recent years when things like this have cropped up, the ones who hold the answers have made situations worse by telling users to shut up, which never works in real life so it certainly won't work online.

[beth]

if people want to know so badly they can go and ask the person who was fired/hired/banned and if they don't want to answer, then to be fair the other person should drop it. what do they get out of knowing if they're not involved?

[GoldenMerc]

I think things like sever should have been posted, not being fired etc

[Catzsy]

The speculation itself causes more damage, as it's left down to the imagination of the users that bicker amongst themselves :P It's all in the presentation. If people shouldn't be told, be honest and say they shouldn't and why e.g. it's not fair for the user in question. In recent years when things like this have cropped up, the ones who hold the answers have made situations worse by telling users to shut up, which never works in real life so it certainly won't work online.

Gossip and speculation make Habbox livelier: P I cannot see though that as it is a private matter between the user and Habbox while it should make it public by basically putting the user ' in the stocks'. Nobody has come up with any real reason why it is should be made public.

[GoldenMerc]

But they could put a stop to gossip i guess...

[Matthew.]

if people want to know so badly they can go and ask the person who was fired/hired/banned and if they don't want to answer, then to be fair the other person should drop it. what do they get out of knowing if they're not involved?

I agree with this, if the person wants to publicly say why they got fired or banned leave it up to them. I'm sure some people wouldn't like their firing reason to be known as some can just give you a bad reputation and make others think differently about you.

Depending on the ban reason though, like if it's a safety ban or something, I would agree on it being announced so that others can take action if they recently spoke to them on MSN or something to avoid them getting hacked also!

[GoldenMerc]

Yeh but what if someone who had rights to habbox did, say damage such as a keylog. would you release they did it?

[Matthew.]

Yeh but what if someone who had rights to habbox did, say damage such as a keylog. would you release they did it?

I agree with the reasoning behind this one.... It would be so much better to post if the account has beencompromisedor safety banned for the users security..

[GoldenMerc]

Yeh defiantly, Maybe just a little note from a Admins on his VM before banning saying the user has been hacked etc...

[Inseriousity.]

Yeh but what if someone who had rights to habbox did, say damage such as a keylog. would you release they did it?

If the security of Habbox users wasunder threat due to actions by a hacked (staff) memberthen yes I imagine there would be an announcement informing them of that but it'd be more general I imagine rather than finger-pointing.

[GoldenMerc]

But surely you want to keep us safe, so why not just point the finger?

[xxMATTGxx]

But surely you want to keep us safe, so why not just point the finger?

You can keep people safe without having to blame someone in a notice or a thread about it. If say something like that did happen to Habbox then you can do a number of things.

1. Get rid of the staff member in question.
2. Make sure the virus/keylogger/whatever has been removed and nothing else has been changed or uploaded
3. Alert all of our users that there has been a security breach of some sort and we advise everyone to change their password/force users to change their password.

(Not saying this is the correct order but can be something on the lines of this)

You can do all of that without pointing a finger to the person in question but it would also be obviously when the announcement of them being "No longer Habbox staff" is made.

[GoldenMerc]

Okay fair enough

[GommeInc]

Gossip and speculation make Habbox livelier: P I cannot see though that as it is a private matter between the user and Habbox while it should make it public by basically putting the user ' in the stocks'. Nobody has come up with any real reason why it is should be made public.
Again, treat it like a real life situation. It's something people are void of doing on here :P Tell the user what they need to know and be honest, by telling them that it wouldn't be fair to put the user in question in the docks to be sentenced. Mild exercpts of information like "it happened on Habbo" or "you're accounts are fine, no need to worry" should do. A simple reminder like that is all that is needed. Avoid adding to speculation, so do not give half-hearted comments which seem a bit too defensive and add further fuel to the fire :)

EDIT: Just read the above comments ^ From what I remember Habbox have PM'd users OR got them to change their passwords before, so if an attack happened I'm sure the same would happen. Before being allowed to access the forum, you would have to change your password. It's happened once but I can't for the life of me remember when that was.

[GoldenMerc]

Again, treat it like a real life situation. It's something people are void of doing on here :P Tell the user what they need to know and be honest, by telling them that it wouldn't be fair to put the user in question in the docks to be sentenced. Mild exercpts of information like "it happened on Habbo" or "you're accounts are fine, no need to worry" should do. A simple reminder like that is all that is needed. Avoid adding to speculation, so do not give half-hearted comments which seem a bit too defensive and add further fuel to the fire :)

EDIT: Just read the above comments ^ From what I remember Habbox have PM'd users OR got them to change their passwords before, so if an attack happened I'm sure the same would happen. Before being allowed to access the forum, you would have to change your password. It's happened once but I can't for the life of me remember when that was.

When that hacking happened and they wrote on Habbox a life story about 8freak8?

[GommeInc]

When that hacking happened and they wrote on Habbox a life story about 8freak8?
This was another occasion after that. I think it was two years ago. I forgot about the 8Freak8 lecture :P It was one of those things you do not bother reading ;)

[Catzsy]

Again, treat it like a real life situation. It's something people are void of doing on here :P Tell the user what they need to know and be honest, by telling them that it wouldn't be fair to put the user in question in the docks to be sentenced. Mild exercpts of information like "it happened on Habbo" or "you're accounts are fine, no need to worry" should do. A simple reminder like that is all that is needed. Avoid adding to speculation, so do not give half-hearted comments which seem a bit too defensive and add further fuel to the fire :)


EDIT: Just read the above comments ^ From what I remember Habbox have PM'd users OR got them to change their passwords before, so if an attack happened I'm sure the same would happen. Before being allowed to access the forum, you would have to change your password. It's happened once but I can't for the life of me remember when that was.
In irl, Gomme people are not given the reasons why people are fired from a company. If there has been a problem with hacking or keylogging in the past on the forum as far as I remember the members have been alerted and suggestions made to change their password however I can only ever remember one instance where somebody with admin actually abused their powers in this way and that was a long time ago.

[JakeWillow]

I may be qouting someone, i do not know for sure, I cba to read all the comments, But look at it like this, if you were to be banned, or Firedwould you like them to announce it over the whole radio? Surely you wouldn't want that, and be embarassed that you were banned from a habbo fansite. thats just my guess as to why they dont come right out and tell about banns, Fires etc.

[JerseySafety]

Rumours went around when I got fired yaaay, I think ban reasons should be given to everyone and 'firing reasons' given to everyone if they have said its ok.

[GommeInc]

In irl, Gomme people are not given the reasons why people are fired from a company. If there has been a problem with hacking or keylogging in the past on the forum as far as I remember the members have been alerted and suggestions made to change their password however I can only ever remember one instance where somebody with admin actually abused their powers in this way and that was a long time ago.
It happens all the time :S Look at news articles revolving around a member of staff being kicked out or removed from a position. I think the HP CEO got kicked out of their position for generally being a bit of a twit :P It happens more often in the social-community sector e.g. Facebook, Tom(?) from Myspace. Considering Habbox works in the social industry, it's bound to have people wanting to know the ins and outs, and in a way you should let people know the inner workings as you are running a community and as a community members are going to be curious. Heck, users on here seem to discuss Habbox in depth in other places like ClubHabbo or MSN. Management and staff seem so secretive it's uncomfortable. It's a Habbo fansite afterall, not a conglomerate making lots of money. Whatever happened to acting like a not-for-profit business that aims on making a strong, friendly community?

But as I said, it depends on the situation and its mostly in the presentation. Provided you release basic information and make it clear that you cannot tell members exactly what's going on, you should be fine. Recent events highlight when PR goes wrong, a them-and-us mentality isn't inviting, especially on a socio-community website :P

[Catzsy]

It happens all the time :S Look at news articles revolving around a member of staff being kicked out or removed from a position. I think the HP CEO got kicked out of their position for generally being a bit of a twit :P It happens more often in the social-community sector e.g. Facebook, Tom(?) from Myspace. Considering Habbox works in the social industry, it's bound to have people wanting to know the ins and outs, and in a way you should let people know the inner workings as you are running a community and as a community members are going to be curious. Heck, users on here seem to discuss Habbox in depth in other places like ClubHabbo or MSN. Management and staff seem so secretive it's uncomfortable. It's a Habbo fansite afterall, not a conglomerate making lots of money. Whatever happened to acting like a not-for-profit business that aims on making a strong, friendly community?

But as I said, it depends on the situation and its mostly in the presentation. Provided you release basic information and make it clear that you cannot tell members exactly what's going on, you should be fine. Recent events highlight when PR goes wrong, a them-and-us mentality isn't inviting, especially on a socio-community website :P

But the fact remains that whilst the news gets out it is not normal protocol for companies to
issue statements to staff as to who has been fired and why. The part in bold has very little to do with anything. I don't think 'non profit' organisations in irl who have the same ethos do it either but it is nice to see that you appreciate that Habbox does allow users at least allow users to discuss things that could possibly make management uncomfortable. Curiosity is fine but essentially 'crucifying' banned or fired members by making their deeds or misdeeds public is not imo. If they want to let members know the reasons then that shows they wish to make it public is up to them.

[GommeInc]

But the fact remains that whilst the news gets out it is not normal protocol for companies to
issue statements to staff as to who has been fired and why. The part in bold has very little to do with anything. I don't think 'non profit' organisations in irl who have the same ethos do it either but it is nice to see that you appreciate that Habbox does allow users at least allow users to discuss things that could possibly make management uncomfortable. Curiosity is fine but essentially 'crucifying' banned or fired members by making their deeds or misdeeds public is not imo. If they want to let members know the reasons then that shows they wish to make it public is up to them.
The business world isn't black and white :P Some do, some don't. Most, strangely, issue statements, because sackings usually are the result of a break in contract, so to release a statement on why they were fired is in fact an example of a term within a contract being broken - it sets an example to current employees. Employees are disposable at the end of the day so it means very little to the company of the feelings of those sacked. But thats neither here nor their because the bit in bold is precisely the area Habbox works. It's social website at the end of the day, and presentation and treatment of the people you're serving and serving you are of the utmost importance :P

You're completely missing my point and seem to be justifying the recent, poor decisions made by some members of management. If you do not want people to know why someone was fired, be honest and say it's not fair for the member to have the reasons disclosed. Surely this is fine? It's not fine, however, to splash petrol over the sparks of speculation which happened in the thread about Mr-Trainor - by saying "You do not know what happened and do not need to know" because such a statement begs the response "Why?" You could cut the crap and simply state in response to future threads "We do not want to disclose this information because it's not fair for the person in question". You could state names or just say "them/him" etc. It's so simple. It's why pointless arguments exist on here because management seem to love speculation and do very little to dispell it :/

[Inseriousity.]

And then people would quite rightly moan that general management were robots. Both statements still begs the response "Why?" because both statements don't answer the question 'why wasx fired'? and there is no getting around that. Pointless arguments exist because people like to argue over trivial things thathave no realconsequence to their life.

[Catzsy]

The business world isn't black and white :P Some do, some don't. Most, strangely, issue statements, because sackings usually are the result of a break in contract, so to release a statement on why they were fired is in fact an example of a term within a contract being broken - it sets an example to current employees. Employees are disposable at the end of the day so it means very little to the company of the feelings of those sacked. But thats neither here nor their because the bit in bold is precisely the area Habbox works. It's social website at the end of the day, and presentation and treatment of the people you're serving and serving you are of the utmost importance :P

You're completely missing my point and seem to be justifying the recent, poor decisions made by some members of management. If you do not want people to know why someone was fired, be honest and say it's not fair for the member to have the reasons disclosed. Surely this is fine? It's not fine, however, to splash petrol over the sparks of speculation which happened in the thread about Mr-Trainor - by saying "You do not know what happened and do not need to know" because such a statement begs the response "Why?" You could cut the crap and simply state in response to future threads "We do not want to disclose this information because it's not fair for the person in question". You could state names or just say "them/him" etc. It's so simple. It's why pointless arguments exist on here because management seem to love speculation and do very little to dispell it :/

I am not justifying any decisions. LOL The part is bold is exactly what I have said. Also as far as 'safety bans' are concerned I don't think there is any secret about them. When someone has asked why I have said 'safety ban' as they haven't broken any rules. :P

[Yupt]

Surely it should depend on the will of the person in question. If someone was fired then it should be their choice to whether the reason for is announced. Unless, of course, the Management see it inappropriate in certain cases.

[GommeInc]

And then people would quite rightly moan that general management were robots. Both statements still begs the response "Why?" because both statements don't answer the question 'why wasx fired'? and there is no getting around that. Pointless arguments exist because people like to argue over trivial things thathave no realconsequence to their life.
Again, it's all in the presentation ;) And saying "It's not fair to tell you why X has been fired" doesn't beg the response "why" because the statement is self-explanatory - because it "would not be fair" :P

That said, members could just VM a safety banned / fired / banned user asking why, or a PM. There's no harm in that and I think I've done it once asking where their title went.


I am not justifying any decisions. LOL The part is bold is exactly what I have said. Also as far as 'safety bans' are concerned I don't think there is any secret about them. When someone has asked why I have said 'safety ban' as they haven't broken any rules. :P
It's just a shame actions speak louder than words. You may say it, but management do not act it out as much as they should.