Boy, 7, branded a racist

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2103175/Boy-7-branded-racist-asking-schoolmate-Are-brown-come-Africa.html#

Boy, 7, branded a racist for asking schoolmate: 'Are you brown because you come from Africa?'


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/18/article-2103175-11CBEAC2000005DC-193_468x508.jpg
Summoned: Hayley White was called to her son Elliot's school to deal with the 'racist incident'


The mother of a seven-year-old boy was told to sign a school form admitting he was racist after he asked another pupil about the colour of his skin. Elliott Dearlove had asked a five-year-old boy in the playground whether he was ‘brown because he was from Africa’. His mother, Hayley White, 29, said she received a phone call last month to say her son had been at the centre of a ‘racist incident’. She was then summoned to a meeting with Elliott, his teacher and the deputy head of Griffin Primary School in Hull. Ms White, an NHS healthcare assistant, said: ‘When I arrived at the school and asked Elliott what had happened, he became extremely upset.

'He kept saying to me, “I was just asking a question. I didn’t mean it to be nasty” and he was extremely distressed by it all.’ Ms White claimed she was asked at the meeting to read a copy of the school rules and in particular its zero-tolerance policy on racism. ‘I was told I would have to sign a form acknowledging my son had made a racist remark which would be submitted to the local education authority for further investigation,’ she said. ‘I refused to sign it and I told the teacher in no way did I agree the comment was racist. My son is inquisitive. He always likes to ask questions, but that doesn’t make him a racist.’ The school had launched an investigation after the younger boy told his mother about Elliott’s comment and she complained.

Ms White, who lives in a three-bedroom house with her son and nine-year-old daughter Olivia, has now applied to have Elliott moved from the school. Vanessa Harvey-Samuel, head of localities and learning at Hull City Council, said: ‘There is a statutory duty to report any incident that is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person.’

Last year, it was revealed that teachers are branding thousands of children racist or homophobic following playground squabbles. More than 20,000 pupils aged 11 or younger were put on record for so-called hate crimes such as using the word ‘gaylord’.

The lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum.

Thoughts?

[Ajthedragon]

When I was in Year 5 I was sent to the headmaster for saying "poo sticks" when something went wrong, (something my nan always said) and apparently I offended the African boy in my class?

And the example you have here clearly highlights this ridiculousness.

[-:Undertaker:-]

When I was in Year 5 I was sent to the headmaster for saying "poo sticks" when something went wrong, (something my nan always said) and apparently I offended the African boy in my class?

And the example you have here clearly highlights this ridiculousness.

LOL that gave me a good chuckle, +rep

[Deak]

Thats just stupid! I mean he's only 5 years old & most likely not know about racism yet!
Like his mum says ' he was only asking a question '
All that should have happened was to say to the boy that its not ok to say things like that and then just let it go!

[Inseriousity.]

The school went about this completely wrong.It would've beenthe perfect opportunity to discuss race and British multiculturalism but instead,they start branding curious schoolchildren with a racist labelthat they're not.

[MKR&*42]

My goodness, people are so quick to jump to the conclusion that someone is racist these days - this is just another example of one of those ridiculous incidents. Honestly, he's 7... how dare that headteacher brand him a racist for being curious about where some person originates from.

If I asked one of my white friends where he/she came from and they said "Canada", that wouldn't be racist but with black people it's a different story:rolleyes:. Everyone is so "touchy" on racism these days.

[Showder]

Our school is a british-syllabus and we talk about racial colours, skins, culture and so on.
Hmmm, a small remark made big?
Weird.
P.S I don't live in U.K , I'm in Malaysia.
Btw its weird that teachers kinda scold us if we're asking for w/e colour paint we want.
And they think we're discriminating :L

[Chippiewill]

Good thing they found this now, it'll only be a year until he's in a gang, by the age of ten he'll have already burnt down hundreds of buildings as his racism fuels his anarchy and pyromania. When he's 12 he'll be in a large terror cell responsible for bombing throughout the middle east and very specific parts of london and by the age of 19 he'll be the head of the BNP. When will people stop trusting these children not not be psychotic, they need to be locked away now and be brainwashed into submission before they ask if an Asian person has come from China!

[Jordy]

I've never been a fan of PC at all but for once I don't think what's happened here is as scandalous as the Daily Mail and its sheep like to make out.

He has not been "branded" a racist at all if you read it carefully, nor has he been punished. The school or authorities have not said he is a "racist", they say he was involved in a racist incident where he made a racist remark. And let's face it, he has made a racist remark. It is a racist remark what he said whether he understood the implications of it or not seeing as he had a prejudiced belief that the boy was from Africa seeing as he was "brown". I'm not saying for a minute he's racist and I don't believe at all he meant to upset him, he's just being quizzical as he's at a young age but if you look up definitions of racist, I think that remark fits well within it (Ignorance is no defence also).

For instance in Year 4 I kicked a girl quite hard and got in a lot of a trouble for it, I couldn't understand at the time why it was so bad to kick a girl at the time, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have been punished for it.

He hasn't even been punished for it anyway by the looks of it, he needed a telling off for the inappropriate comment and it looks like that's what he's got (and deserved), it's gone on record seeing as a complaint was made and I think it was also appropriate to make his parents aware. In any other situation I'm always seeing people moan about schools not being strict enough in this day and age, as soon as someone gets told off for an inappropriate remark it's apparently out of line to tell them off for it?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I've never been a fan of PC at all but for once I don't think what's happened here is as scandalous as the Daily Mail and its sheep like to make out.

He has not been "branded" a racist at all if you read it carefully, nor has he been punished. The school or authorities have not said he is a "racist", they say he was involved in a racist incident where he made a racist remark. And let's face it, he has made a racist remark. It is a racist remark what he said whether he understood the implications of it or not seeing as he had a prejudiced belief that the boy was from Africa seeing as he was "brown". I'm not saying for a minute he's racist and I don't believe at all he meant to upset him, he's just being quizzical as he's at a young age but if you look up definitions of racist, I think that remark fits well within it (Ignorance is no defence also).

For instance in Year 4 I kicked a girl quite hard and got in a lot of a trouble for it, I couldn't understand at the time why it was so bad to kick a girl at the time, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have been punished for it.

He hasn't even been punished for it anyway by the looks of it, he needed a telling off for the inappropriate comment and it looks like that's what he's got (and deserved), it's gone on record seeing as a complaint was made and I think it was also appropriate to make his parents aware. In any other situation I'm always seeing people moan about schools not being strict enough in this day and age, as soon as someone gets told off for an inappropriate remark it's apparently out of line to tell them off for it?

I think you'll find people are more annoyed that schools won't punish those who smash windows and bully other students than forcing a child and his mother to sign a 'racism form' because of an innocent remark with absolutely no malice what so ever behind it. I quite frankly think you've gone completely loopy, here's a child who has made a innocent remark - you know it, I know it - yet we're going to use words like 'racist incident' to describe this? its utterly pathetic. 1984 has arrived my friends, next thing they'll be placing all these children on a creepy government database like criminals...... (http://www.infowars.com/3-year-olds-branded-racist-homophobic-put-in-government-database/)

How about some common sense for a change; an innocent remark from an innocent lad.

[Jordy]

I think you'll find people are more annoyed that schools won't punish those who smash windows and bully other students than forcing a child and his mother to sign a 'racism form' because of an innocent remark. I quite frankly think you've gone completely loopy, here's a child who has made a innocent remark - you know it, I know it - yet we're going to use words like 'racist incident' to describe this? its utterly pathetic.

How about some common sense for a change, an innocent remark from an innocent lad.Yes the remark didn't intend to offend him but that doesn't make it acceptable, the boy was offended and made a complaint. The lad is then told it is inappropriate as it is racist and his parents informed, he was not punished, or excluded etc. What happened is common sense, just because he didn't intend to be racist doesn't mean he should get away with offending someone. What's utterly pathetic is how twisted this has become and what a normal incident this probably is, yes PC has gone mad but this is not an example of it.

Please don't accuse me of being loopy, I wouldn't usually care about such a petty remark, but that hurts coming from a sad individual who seems completely obsessed with right-wingism and the EU with maddening scepticism and conspiracy theories about pretty much everything with dangerously far right wing views. You're sense of humour is so bad you inadvertently posted a thread quoting the made-up news site The Onion the other day. Am I really the loopy one? ;)

[Conspiracy.]

It's the Daily Fail, so I'm not going to take it all seriously.

If it is true, then, LOL. He's an innocent seven year old, he didn't mean any harm. When I was a kid I was almost "colour-blind" when it come to race issues. I just seen people as people with darker skin (which is the same as I do now)

[dbgtz]

It's the Daily Fail, so I'm not going to take it all seriously.

If it is true, then, LOL. He's an innocent seven year old, he didn't mean any harm. When I was a kid I was almost "colour-blind" when it come to race issues. I just seen people as people with darker skin (which is the same as I do now)

Well even if the article is emphasised heavily in places, it doesn't deny the fact that the smallest things are classed as racism.

[kuzkasate]

How ironic that his mothers name is Ms White.

[GommeInc]

I thought it was a good question. It was curiosity, not racism. If someone asked me if I was white because I was American, British or European I woudn't be offended, and do children in Year 5 even pick up on racism if there is no insulting, aggressive tone? I'm not 100% sure if this story is true, it's so obscure and stupid that I'd like to assume it's not true for the sake of the well-being of the education system. If those employed in the educational system do not know what racism is then there is no hope for the new generation of children. Heck, to brand the child racist hints to some sort of racist undertone from the teacher who wields the racist brandishing tool :P


The lad is then told it is inappropriate as it is racist and his parents informed, he was not punished, or excluded etc.
It isn't. There was no prejudice nor discrimination, and there was no hint that the child asking the question was showing signs that white is right. It was an oddly asked question, not racism. The teacher(s) should have dealt with the situation by informing and reassuring the offended child that it wasn't racist what was asked and try to hold off smacking him for his ignorance and pettiness over the situation, and telling the child who asked the question that he should of worded it better. I don't see how asking someone what their background is can be considered racism, as this is what it boils down to. Multiculturalism only fails because people mistake the meanings of racism and xenophobia, and apply them to situations that are inaccurate of the meanings which only widen the gap between cultures and backgrounds.

The two children could of been sat down together and could of had a good chat about their backgrounds, to learn from the situation and turn what wasn't originally a racist dicussion back on track and have them learn a bit about races and cultures. If the boy who was offended has a strong, British background then perhaps an educational discussion about why that is could of come in. Anything could of been better than wrongly brandishing the racist tool, step toeing around racism doesn't solve it,.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yes the remark didn't intend to offend him but that doesn't make it acceptable, the boy was offended and made a complaint. The lad is then told it is inappropriate as it is racist and his parents informed, he was not punished, or excluded etc. What happened is common sense, just because he didn't intend to be racist doesn't mean he should get away with offending someone. What's utterly pathetic is how twisted this has become and what a normal incident this probably is, yes PC has gone mad but this is not an example of it.

Its not common sense at all, totally overblown for what it is - an innocent mistake.

I asked one of my friends who is black as I was getting to know him, where he or his family came from - he took no offence, I asked out of genuine interest like that lad. If that makes me racist then that makes you bonkers.


Please don't accuse me of being loopy, I wouldn't usually care about such a petty remark, but that hurts coming from a sad individual who seems completely obsessed with right-wingism and the EU with maddening scepticism and conspiracy theories about pretty much everything with dangerously far right wing views.

I'd ask for examples but I know you're upset because I have a go at the Tory Party nowadays, whereas you just prefered it when I posted about Labour and only Labour.


You're sense of humour is so bad you inadvertently posted a thread quoting the made-up news site The Onion the other day. Am I really the loopy one? ;)

I knew the Onion article was a joke, but I also know you know that because you've read the thread again - please don't lie.

[Catchy]

Didn't read it all but didn't really have to. Reallyridiculousand the school is bang out of order for making her sign a form to admit he is a racist? Lmfao, I doubt he even knows the meaning of the word doubt I did age 7.

Maybe the school should take a step back before quickly jumping to conclusions and trying to make the parents feel guilty and take a look at how they handle these issues. Doesn't seem like the kids are being educated on issues such as racism etc and what's deemed wrong and right.

If someone was to ask are you white because you're from England I know for a fact that wouldn't be seen as racist (because it's not) but as soon as the word black comes into the equation it's racism...

[jasey]

This is absolutely outraging. A small child like that has no capacity to be racist and it's clear he was just asking an innocent question. I would understand this course of action if this happened at a school for teenagers but in this case the school deserves to be given trouble for what they've done to this poor child. Even when I was younger I thought that people with brown skin got that way because they stayed in the sun too long. That's not racism - that's just the natural curiosity and logic of a child.

[Jordy]

I thought it was a good question. It was curiosity, not racism. If someone asked me if I was white because I was American, British or European I woudn't be offended, and do children in Year 5 even pick up on racism if there is no insulting, aggressive tone? I'm not 100% sure if this story is true, it's so obscure and stupid that I'd like to assume it's not true for the sake of the well-being of the education system. If those employed in the educational system do not know what racism is then there is no hope for the new generation of children. Heck, to brand the child racist hints to some sort of racist undertone from the teacher who wields the racist brandishing tool :P


It isn't. There was no prejudice nor discrimination, and there was no hint that the child asking the question was showing signs that white is right. It was an oddly asked question, not racism. The teacher(s) should have dealt with the situation by informing and reassuring the offended child that it wasn't racist what was asked and try to hold off smacking him for his ignorance and pettiness over the situation, and telling the child who asked the question that he should of worded it better. I don't see how asking someone what their background is can be considered racism, as this is what it boils down to. Multiculturalism only fails because people mistake the meanings of racism and xenophobia, and apply them to situations that are inaccurate of the meanings which only widen the gap between cultures and backgrounds.

The two children could of been sat down together and could of had a good chat about their backgrounds, to learn from the situation and turn what wasn't originally a racist dicussion back on track and have them learn a bit about races and cultures. If the boy who was offended has a strong, British background then perhaps an educational discussion about why that is could of come in. Anything could of been better than wrongly brandishing the racist tool, step toeing around racism doesn't solve it,.There was prejudice assuming he came from Africa, it's as simple as that.


Its not common sense at all, totally overblown for what it is - an innocent mistake.

I asked one of my friends who is black as I was getting to know him, where he or his family came from - he took no offence, I asked out of genuine interest like that lad. If that makes me racist then that makes you bonkers.



I'd ask for examples but I know you're upset because I have a go at the Tory Party nowadays, whereas you just prefered it when I posted about Labour and only Labour.



I knew the Onion article was a joke, but I also know you know that because you've read the thread again - please don't lie.An innocent mistake yes but that doesn't mean it should be overlooked?I'm just repeating myself here and it's ridiculous everyone in this thread has took the article at face value when he has not been punished or brandished a racist, merely accused of a racist comment.

The days I prefer are when you don't post at all as it's just boring and predictable, the whole entourage thing with Chippiewill is embarrassing too, I've never seen such a sheep. And please don't try turn this around on me and accuse me of lying? Yes I've read your response in this thread;http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=736228

I didn't think it warranted another response, the bottom line is you were foolish enough to post a satirical news site as a source for a made up story. There was not a hint of sarcasm or jokingness in your entire post, and plus this is not a joking section and you have never posted "jokes" before so based on that I can safely conclude you genuinely thought The Onion was a real news source which is incredibly cynical.

[-:Undertaker:-]

There was prejudice assuming he came from Africa, it's as simple as that.

Because black people do originate from Africa.


An innocent mistake yes but that doesn't mean it should be overlooked?I'm just repeating myself here and it's ridiculous everyone in this thread has took the article at face value when he has not been punished or brandished a racist, merely accused of a racist comment.

They attempted to punish him but luckily for him his mother stood up to them and didn't take it.


The days I prefer are when you don't post at all as it's just boring and predictable, the whole entourage thing with Chippiewill is embarrassing too, I've never seen such a sheep. And please don't try turn this around on me and accuse me of lying? Yes I've read your response in this thread;http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=736228

Oh indeed, its only got boring for you since I started having a go at the Conservative Party and you've got a paddy on. As for Chippiewill, er we've disagreed lots in the past? I don't see why your bringing him into it anyway, you seem really really bitter for some reason. If you're going to have a go at me personally, there's no need to bring him into it.


I didn't think it warranted another response, the bottom line is you were foolish enough to post a satirical news site as a source for a made up story. There was not a hint of sarcasm or jokingness in your entire post, and plus this is not a joking section and you have never posted "jokes" before so based on that I can safely conclude you genuinely thought The Onion was a real news source which is incredibly cynical.

Because you are telling a lie, for example i've posted the cabbage directive before thinking it was real - that was pointed out to be, I laughed and I admitted I got it wrong in the thread. The Onion though, I know its a joke article because I often read links to it from Ron Paul groups on FB and the internet. So instead of backing down (like I did when I genuinely have had it wrong before), you refuse to.

Hurt pride? its HabboxForum.

[dirrty]

Because black people do originate from Africa.like that's an excuse. just because black people originated from africa (didn't everyone originate from africa anyway or whatever) doesn't mean they associate themselves with the place - therefore, asking someone if they're from africa just because they're black isn't exactly right. obviously within this context, the little kid didn't mean anything by it (hope not anyway), but nevertheless it doesn't excuse the question/statement.

[-:Undertaker:-]

like that's an excuse. just because black people originated from africa (didn't everyone originate from africa anyway or whatever) doesn't mean they associate themselves with the place - therefore, asking someone if they're from africa just because they're black isn't exactly right. obviously within this context, the little kid didn't mean anything by it (hope not anyway), but nevertheless it doesn't excuse the question/statement.

I asked my friend, he wasn't put out at all and we ended up talking about Kenya (where he is from) and what its like - i'm not put out either when people ask if i've got Indian/Southern European ancestors because i've got darker skin, i'd be interested myself actually to find out where the darker skin and black hair in me comes from because its very dominant in my family. Lets all stop being so petrified of offending eachother, its become ridiculous.

[jasey]

I asked my friend, he wasn't put out at all and we ended up talking about Kenya (where he is from) and what its like - i'm not put out either when people ask if i've got Indian/Southern European ancestors because i've got darker skin, i'd be interested myself actually to find out where the darker skin and black hair in me comes from because its very dominant in my family. Lets all stop being so petrified of offending eachother, its become ridiculous.

Agreed fully!

[dirrty]

I asked my friend, he wasn't put out at all and we ended up talking about Kenya (where he is from) and what its like - i'm not put out either when people ask if i've got Indian/Southern European ancestors because i've got darker skin, i'd be interested myself actually to find out where the darker skin and black hair in me comes from because its very dominant in my family. Lets all stop being so petrified of offending eachother, its become ridiculous.
it's different if the black person in question is actually from africa lol (it's like getting lucky in their response if they're actually from there), but the initial questions of "are you from africa", or "where abouts in africa are you from?" can be quite insulting to those who aren't from there because it just stinks of ignorance - and that question anyway is solely asked because the person is black. it's not about being scared of offending each other, but rather not assuming that the person of colour is from a certain place just because of their skin colour/ethnic attributes.

[Shar]

Are they for real? He's only 7 :S

[Jordy]

Because black people do originate from Africa.



They attempted to punish him but luckily for him his mother stood up to them and didn't take it.



Oh indeed, its only got boring for you since I started having a go at the Conservative Party and you've got a paddy on. As for Chippiewill, er we've disagreed lots in the past? I don't see why your bringing him into it anyway, you seem really really bitter for some reason. If you're going to have a go at me personally, there's no need to bring him into it.



Because you are telling a lie, for example i've posted the cabbage directive before thinking it was real - that was pointed out to be, I laughed and I admitted I got it wrong in the thread. The Onion though, I know its a joke article because I often read links to it from Ron Paul groups on FB and the internet. So instead of backing down (like I did when I genuinely have had it wrong before), you refuse to.

Hurt pride? its HabboxForum.Everyone on earth is from Africa "originally" but for hundreds of years black people have been found across central and north America as well as Europe (as I'm sure you're aware).

It doesn't say anywhere in the article that he was going to be punished if it was signed? The boy was offended, made a complaint, the complaint was dealt with and he got a talking to. Nor was he ever accused of being a racist, merely a racist comment. If the boy had been excluded over this I could understand the uproar as he did make the comments innocently (That's not to say he didn't deserve a talking to however).

It got boring for me when you bullied everyone else out the section by ridiculously arrogant and over the top posts of ridiculous lengths constantly and driving everyone to repeat their points constantly which is no fun to anyone (but yourself perhaps?). Now the only person in this section is yourself and people with similar views to yours, and it's no fun arguing with you for the reasons outlined and plus it's just predictable as I know your views on everything inside out.

I've never seen you back down or apologise in many years of using these forums, it's just something you claim to do to cover yourself, it doesn't occur.

[Empired]

I am seriously worried. England has obviously been put in charge of a whole load of total morons. The boy is seven, for God's sake, it's very unlikely that he will even know what racism is and think that Africa is still a country rather than a continent?!

I'm sure this teacher would have very different views if it was one of her children who had asked that supposedly "racist" question.. What people will do to get in the papers these days..

I will be furious if anything bad happens to Elliot!

[RyRy]

Racist? It's more of a matter of education and comes down to his background really, but 7? that's pure jokes, no kid is going to have the malicious intent of being racist at the age of 7...

[FlyingJesus]

7 year olds are extremely capable of malice Fry :P but yeah this case is quite clearly a child being inquisitive and probably thinking that he's clever by knowing something about Africa. What he said may not be right but should definitely not be taken to a disciplinary level, which leaves a permanent mark on one's record and reputation. The level of education that people (of all ages really) get concerning equality and the such like is absolutely terrible considering how important everyone seems to think it is

[RyRy]

7 year olds are extremely capable of malice Fry :P but yeah this case is quite clearly a child being inquisitive and probably thinking that he's clever by knowing something about Africa. What he said may not be right but should definitely not be taken to a disciplinary level, which leaves a permanent mark on one's record and reputation. The level of education that people (of all ages really) get concerning equality and the such like is absolutely terrible considering how important everyone seems to think it is

yeah but racism?!?!?!

[FlyingJesus]

They might not know that that's what it's called but yeah, there's no reason that a child trying to assert themself wouldn't single someone out for their race when there are such obvious aesthetic differences - it's easy, and children aren't looking to challenge themselves when they bully each other they're looking to dominate, so they won't make it any harder for themselves than necessary.

I'm not saying that's what's happened here at all, as it doesn't sound malicious in the slightest, but it's entirely possible for children to be racist, yes

[RyRy]

They might not know that that's what it's called but yeah, there's no reason that a child trying to assert themself wouldn't single someone out for their race when there are such obvious aesthetic differences - it's easy, and children aren't looking to challenge themselves when they bully each other they're looking to dominate, so they won't make it any harder for themselves than necessary.

I'm not saying that's what's happened here at all, as it doesn't sound malicious in the slightest, but it's entirely possible for children to be racist, yes

you put it that way, i do see where youre coming from now. bit switched off today ngl

[Lewis]

I haven't read any above posts, but this is ridiculous! He's only a 5 year old kid or so, and was simply asking the other kid if he's from south africa because he's black... that's not racism at all! That's expected to be said by any young kid of that age, don't you think? That school should be ashamed, that was not racism AT ALL. Sure, he could be racist for all we know, but in no way would that be classed as a racist comment unless it was like coming from a 12 year old or something, because they'd know what they're saying!

[Empired]

I haven't read any above posts, but this is ridiculous! He's only a 5 year old kid or so, and was simply asking the other kid if he's from south africa because he's black... that's not racism at all! That's expected to be said by any young kid of that age, don't you think? That school should be ashamed, that was not racism AT ALL. Sure, he could be racist for all we know, but in no way would that be classed as a racist comment unless it was like coming from a 12 year old or something, because they'd know what they're saying!
This is a difficult situation..
If a seven year old boy murdered somebody else, there would be no doubt that he would be classed as a murderer.
The boy may not really understand that he was ending somebody else's life, but it's still murder, there is no way around it.

If a seven year old boy made a racist remark to somebody else, surely there would be no doubt that he would be classed as a racist?
The boy didn't understand that he was offending somebody else, but it's still racism, there's no way around it.

It's difficult.. I think they are taking it too far, by trying to get him removed from the school, but..

[GommeInc]

There was prejudice assuming he came from Africa, it's as simple as that.
That's not racist, that's misguided. The context it was asked in was not in a racist context. If he said it with malicious intent THEN it would be racist. Intent and context are very important here, but people forget that and like to punish without thought.


it's different if the black person in question is actually from africa lol (it's like getting lucky in their response if they're actually from there), but the initial questions of "are you from africa", or "where abouts in africa are you from?" can be quite insulting to those who aren't from there because it just stinks of ignorance
Re-educate and guide, if I was asked if I was American when I am British I wouldn't be insulted. I would say I am British rather than blow a gasket and lower myself socially. It's only offensive to the weak minded and weak willed, the child who got offended is pretty pathetic for getting upset over a simple question that could of been re-routed to educate both the child asking and the one receiving the question. These are important years for a child's development, and the way the situation was treated was appauling. Offense was taken when offense wasn't intended.

[Empired]

It does seem a little weird that a seven year old child's innocent question has made the news and a four page (and counting) thread on HxF.. Are people taking his question just a tad too seriously?

[FlyingJesus]

As a side note why are people saying that at 7 he won't have understood what he was saying (which is plausible) yet believe that the "victim" who was only 5 would totes understand it enough to be offended? I expect it was a question/comment overheard and acted on by a nearby teacher rather than one reported as offensive by the chap who may or may not be African

[Jssy]

haha this is quite cool cause it's where I live :P but nah he's not a racist, the teachers are stupid

[dirrty]

That's not racist, that's misguided. The context it was asked in was not in a racist context. If he said it with malicious intent THEN it would be racist. Intent and context are very important here, but people forget that and like to punish without thought.


Re-educate and guide, if I was asked if I was American when I am British I wouldn't be insulted. I would say I am British rather than blow a gasket and lower myself socially. It's only offensive to the weak minded and weak willed, the child who got offended is pretty pathetic for getting upset over a simple question that could of been re-routed to educate both the child asking and the one receiving the question. These are important years for a child's development, and the way the situation was treated was appauling. Offense was taken when offense wasn't intended.
i wasn't talking about the kid though, lol. i didn't think the child said it in an offensive way and i noted that in one of my above posts. i was talking within a wider context - and someone getting slightly offended by being asked if they're from africa because they're black doesn't mean they are bloody weak, what are you talking about! and the american/british example isn't even relatable in regards to the african/black question. but when it comes down to it, you (and everyone who believes that black people shouldn't be offended if they're asked if they're from africa) will never know what it feels to be on the receiving end of it, but rather only emphasis with the situation. i don't believe that black people would overtly be offended by it (and obviously i'm not a speaker for em all), but being asked if your from africa because you are black is, as i said above, plain ignorant and can be mildly offensive. nothing that anyone argues will change this.

and nevertheless, just because they're young doesn't necessarily mean that they don't know what certain things suggest. kids can be right *******s at that age and will use any differences between themselves and others. once again i'm not saying the kid in the article meant what he said to be offensive before someone relates this back to it as i believe he didn't mean it on a malicious way.

[Gina]

someone in my class called a boy 'brown sauce'
nothing happened amazingly
the boys innocent face makes me sad :(

[Catzsy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2103175/Boy-7-branded-racist-asking-schoolmate-Are-brown-come-Africa.html#

Boy, 7, branded a racist for asking schoolmate: 'Are you brown because you come from Africa?'


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/18/article-2103175-11CBEAC2000005DC-193_468x508.jpg
Summoned: Hayley White was called to her son Elliot's school to deal with the 'racist incident'



The lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum.

Thoughts?

It is interesting to compare the story in the local newspaper with that of the mail. It appears that even the local MP thought that 'common sense had been thrown out of the window' with which I agree.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/education/boy_of_7_accused_of_racism_for_asking_classmate_wh y_he_is_brown_1_4264704
The mail appears to just have picked out bits that they knew would appease their readership.
It does show how some councils/schools do not apply any thought to implementation of any policies they have to implement as is obvious here. It is possible for racism to happen in schools but this is a bit silly.

[Jssy]

When I was young though I asked a child in my class if he was born in africa and he just simply told me that his mum was born here. That boy lives in the same place as me and there isn't many black people really. There is a few more than there used to be, but that's why it's confusing. I used to get confused because we'd see black people on children in need etc yet there was only very few black people where I lived. The boy isn't at fault.

[Richie]

What a gaylord of a thing to post. Funny thing is we used to say that in primary school :P. I feel they're thinking to much of it and are frightened of something ever happening so blanking anything in relation to skin colour out. Fair play to his ma for not just signing the form.


There was this one black girl in our class that i didn't like 'cause our teacher allowed her to eat chips at lunch but we weren't allowed, so i thought it was unfair. Thinking back now the black girl did have one leg. BUT STILL! if one leg means you can eat chips, i give u my leg.

[Chris]

Poor kid. I can see how it could be seen as racist, but he's a 7 year old kid and it seems to me like it was a genuine question, and not something that was intended to be malicious.

[Cerys]

If this IS true, then it's stupid. A 7yr old child was JUST asking a question.

Some people are just too over-reactive. xD

[Matthew]

I suppose the question can be a bit offensive (only a bit though) but to brand the kid as a racist is ridiculous.

He's 7 years old.. I doubt he even knows what racist means! He's not racist, he's just curious and its stupid to think otherwise.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Everyone on earth is from Africa "originally" but for hundreds of years black people have been found across central and north America as well as Europe (as I'm sure you're aware).

Yes we know that, however we're talking about the recent last 1,000 years as opposed to doing a study in how the races evolved and where they come from. In general and common knowledge; black is the colour of Africa, yellow is the colour of Eastern Asia, brown is the colour of the Middle East, red is the colour of Natives around the Pacific, white is the colour of Europe and the west and so on.

If somebody is black in this country, they have (somewhere) down the line originated from Africa. As I say again, my friend is black and I asked him about his heritage when I first met him - why? not because i'm a racist, because i'm interested in his background. The very same way i've been asked whether i'm part Indian or from Southern Europe.


It doesn't say anywhere in the article that he was going to be punished if it was signed? The boy was offended, made a complaint, the complaint was dealt with and he got a talking to. Nor was he ever accused of being a racist, merely a racist comment. If the boy had been excluded over this I could understand the uproar as he did make the comments innocently (That's not to say he didn't deserve a talking to however).

Why is he being made to sign something then as an admission of guilt? its an innocent question, not racism.


]It got boring for me when you bullied everyone else out the section by ridiculously arrogant and over the top posts of ridiculous lengths constantly and driving everyone to repeat their points constantly which is no fun to anyone (but yourself perhaps?). Now the only person in this section is yourself and people with similar views to yours, and it's no fun arguing with you for the reasons outlined and plus it's just predictable as I know your views on everything inside out.

Thats not what others have said, indeed i've heard it said by a former General Manager that if I didn't post provoking discussions then the forum would end up being removed after a short while. Whether or not thats true remains to be seen although i'm very flattered, however i'm not going to post simply to agree with you all. Because I don't, and that would be dull.

Face it, you just don't like it now that whenever you complain about Labour - I chip in and say how 'the party' is just as bad. Indeed, since the Conservatives have been in office along with the run up to the election i've noticed a few Conservative Party supporters on this forum suddenly turn cold towards me when we got on just fine posting about how awful the Labour government was.


I've never seen you back down or apologise in many years of using these forums, it's just something you claim to do to cover yourself, it doesn't occur.

I've just admitted there i've backed down before when i've been wrong, EU cabbage directive - I thought it was real, its a viral joke - I was 100% damn diddly wrong.


It is interesting to compare the story in the local newspaper with that of the mail. It appears that even the local MP thought that 'common sense had been thrown out of the window' with which I agree.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/education/boy_of_7_accused_of_racism_for_asking_classmate_wh y_he_is_brown_1_4264704
The mail appears to just have picked out bits that they knew would appease their readership.
It does show how some councils/schools do not apply any thought to implementation of any policies they have to implement as is obvious here. It is possible for racism to happen in schools but this is a bit silly.

The Daily Mail story also quoted the local MP from what I recall however I left that out because otherwise when the posts are too long i'm accused, as above, of posting posts of a ridiculous length.

[dirrty]

Yes we know that, however we're talking about the recent last 1,000 years as opposed to doing a study in how the races evolved and where they come from. Black is the colour of Africa, Yellow is the colour of Eastern Asia, Brown is the colour of the Middle East, White is the colour of Europe and the west and so on.

If somebody is black in this country, they have (somewhere) down the line originated from Africa. As I say again, my friend is black and I asked him about his heritage when I first met him - why? not because i'm a racist, because i'm interested in it. The very same way i've been asked whether i'm part Indian or from Southern Europe.

so you're basically saying because black people came from africa within the past 1000 years or whatever, there's nothing wrong with asking someone whose black "are you from africa?" or that assuming someone who is black is from africa ~because they came from there 1000 years ago? i mean, seriously? 1000 years...? black people should essentially associate themselves with africa because their ancestors within the past 1000 years came from there? this is too much ******y right now, and i swear the dumbest thing i've read from you. i'm going sleep|-).

[-:Undertaker:-]

so you're basically saying because black people came from africa within the past 1000 years or whatever, there's nothing wrong with asking someone whose black "are you from africa?" or that assuming someone who is black is from africa ~because they came from there 1000 years ago? i mean, seriously? 1000 years...? black people should essentially associate themselves with africa because their ancestors within the past 1000 years came from there? this is too much ******y right now, and i swear the dumbest thing i've read from you. i'm going sleep|-).

Well there's evidence of black people coming here from Roman times from what i've read in the past, however that was on such a small scale that any features from that would now have been so diluted since that we wouldn't even notice without a DNA test. No, the influx of people of black people has occured over the past 100 or 200 years, therefore its not only a legit question to ask somebody buts its also based in fact and genuine interest, not racism. I hate this political correctness nonsense we have to put up with, black people are in the minority concerning skin colour - therefore people will naturally ask questions concerning their heritage, just as I did.

So no, there's nothing wrong with asking people questions without malice intended - I still don't know myself where my black hair and darker skin has come from, it could of been within the past 200 years or a 1,000 years ago or even 2,000 years ago or maybe even its simply a mutation - either way its still interesting and I take no offence what so ever from it. Skin colour doesn't matter, but it naturally gives an indication of our heritage.

..and thats why people ask questions.

[Catzsy]

Well there's evidence of black people coming here from Roman times from what i've read in the past, however that was on such a small scale that any features from that would now have been so diluted since that we wouldn't even notice without a DNA test. No, the influx of people of black people has occured over the past 100 or 200 years, therefore its not only a legit question to ask somebody buts its also based in fact and genuine interest, not racism. I hate this political correctness nonsense we have to put up with, black people are in the minority concerning skin colour - therefore people will naturally ask questions concerning their heritage, just as I did.

So no, there's nothing wrong with asking people questions without malice intended - I still don't know myself where my black hair and darker skin has come from, it could of been within the past 200 years or a 1,000 years ago or even 2,000 years ago or maybe even its simply a mutation - either way its still interesting and I take no offence what so ever from it. Skin colour doesn't matter, but it naturally gives an indication of our heritage.

..and thats why people ask questions.

I really cannot believe you have said the part in bold. Unbelievable! Skin colour has had nothing to do with where they were born for many decades in some cases and centuries for others. Would anybody say to someone platinum blond are you from Scandanavia? It is the worst negative stereotype I can think of. I still don't blame the boy but he must have got this sort of attitude from somewhere even if he said it innocently.




The Daily Mail story also quoted the local MP from what I recall however I left that out because otherwise when the posts are too long i'm accused, as above, of posting posts of a ridiculous length.

If you are going to post a quote I suggest you don't edit it as it certainly changes the impression it gives.
Members are talking about the posts not the quotes! :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

I really cannot believe you have said the part in bold. Unbelievable!

I don't see whats so shocking, I haven't said one is better than the other so whats so shocking about the statement that black skin and features come from the African continent? not shocking at all, its a fact.


Skin colour has had nothing to do with where they were born for many decades in some cases and centuries for others. Would anybody say to someone platinum blond are you from Scandanavia? It is the worst negative stereotype I can think of. I still don't blame the boy but he must have got this sort of attitude from somewhere even if he said it innocently.

Not as much so, because blond hair is more common in this country due to heavier migration over the centuries from northern Europe therefore we are more naturally less inclined to ask questions about it. What you have to understand is (and if you believe in political correctness then you won't and can't) that when something that is unusual or in a small minority it will always be the subject of more interest.

That is just human nature, its not an 'attitude' nor is it racism.


If you are going to post a quote I suggest you don't edit it as it certainly changes the impression it gives.
Members are talking about the posts not the quotes! :P

I'm not here to spoon feed members and then be slated, I do however at least provide them always with a link to one or two articles on the subject so there's no excuse.

[Catzsy]

I don't see whats so shocking, I haven't said one is better than the other so whats so shocking about the statement that black skin and features come from the African continent? not shocking at all, its a fact.



Not as much so, because blond hair is more common in this country due to heavier migration over the centuries from northern Europe therefore we are more naturally less inclined to ask questions about it. What you have to understand is (and if you believe in political correctness then you won't and can't) that when something that is unusual or in a small minority it will always be the subject of more interest.

That is just human nature, its not an 'attitude'.



I'm not here to spoon feed members and then be slated, I do however at least provide them always with a link to one or two articles on the subject so there's no excuse.

No it is manipulation of the text. I am surprised that you would do this. Again I cannot believe that is what you think and your explanation about not asking blond people where they are from is pure and utter ********.
Anybody asking people 'if they are from africa' just because of the colour of their skin shows complete and utter ignorance of the modern world. If this is combined with an unusual accent then that it is different. It is neither unusual and is not human nature - it is a negative stereotype which has no place in this day and age.

[dirrty]

Well there's evidence of black people coming here from Roman times from what i've read in the past, however that was on such a small scale that any features from that would now have been so diluted since that we wouldn't even notice without a DNA test. No, the influx of people of black people has occured over the past 100 or 200 years, therefore its not only a legit question to ask somebody buts its also based in fact and genuine interest, not racism. I hate this political correctness nonsense we have to put up with, black people are in the minority concerning skin colour - therefore people will naturally ask questions concerning their heritage, just as I did.

So no, there's nothing wrong with asking people questions without malice intended - I still don't know myself where my black hair and darker skin has come from, it could of been within the past 200 years or a 1,000 years ago or even 2,000 years ago or maybe even its simply a mutation - either way its still interesting and I take no offence what so ever from it. Skin colour doesn't matter, but it naturally gives an indication of our heritage.

..and thats why people ask questions.
it's nothing to do with being politically correct, but rather not being ignorant. i can't see how people can't just ask "where are you from?", or "where are your family from?", "where do you originate from?", rather than "are you from africa?". that assumption that all black people are from africa (don't start as the 1000 years ago argument is preposterous :l) is just narrow-minded and that's what that question denotes. i didn't say/don't believe one is being racist when asking the question, but there are so many other places where black people are from, that to assume that they're from africa because they're black is just, as i said before (and i'm kinda repeating myself now) plain ignorant.

[Jazz]

I just think that's utterly stupid, 7 year olds usually don't understand racism at that age..

[-:Undertaker:-]

No it is manipulation of the text. I am surprised that you would do this.

Because when I don't shortern the articles down I get harangued as I was earlier on. Did you jump to my defence? no. I can't win either way.


Again I cannot believe that is what you think and your explanation about not asking blond people where they are from is pure and utter ********.

If you can't understand that simple logic along with the history of migration into the British Isles then you're frankly a hopeless cause.

Why do you think racism exists? because when something is different it attracts more interest and thought, both negative and positive interest - its part of being human.


Anybody asking people 'if they are from africa' just because of the colour of their skin shows complete and utter ignorance of the modern world. If this is combined with an unusual accent then that it is different. It is neither unusual and is not human nature - it is a negative stereotype which has no place in this day and age.

:rolleyes: ...it is a sterotype because it is true, those with more differing features to the majority will be asked more questions on where they originate from - whats negative about it? nobody at all is making that suggestion that black skin is a negative feature or something to be negative towards, well, nobody apart from you.


it's nothing to do with being politically correct, but rather not being ignorant. i can't see how people can't just ask "where are you from?", or "where are your family from?", "where do you originate from?", rather than "are you from africa?". that assumption that all black people are from africa (don't start as the 1000 years ago argument is preposterous :l) is just narrow-minded and that's what that question denotes. i didn't say/don't believe one is being racist when asking the question, but there are so many other places where black people are from, that to assume that they're from africa because they're black is just, as i said before (and i'm kinda repeating myself now) plain ignorant.

Sigh, yes thats how I as an adult would word the question. But in the case with this story, it is about a 7 year old is it not? and as you ought to know (which you evidently do not) that children do not understand language to the extent that we as adults do therefore will be more blunt when they ask questions.

I really can't believe i'm having to explain this.

[dirrty]

Sigh, yes thats how I as an adult would word the question. But in the case with this story, it is about a 7 year old is it not? and as you ought to know (which you evidently do not) that children do not understand language to the extent that we as adults do therefore will be more blunt when they ask questions.

I really can't believe i'm having to explain this.
i thought we haven't been talking about the 7 year old for the longest time lmao, especially since you were using one of your examples of your friend. i've mentioned it in one of my first posts that the kid didn't mean any harm so i agree.

[Catzsy]

Because when I don't shortern the articles down I get harangued as I was earlier on. Did you jump to my defence? no. I can't win either way.



If you can't understand that simple logic along with the history of migration into the British Isles then you're frankly a hopeless cause.

Why do you think racism exists? because when something is different it attracts more interest and thought, both negative and positive interest - its part of being human.
Shortening an article is a lot different than manipulation of text to show your view. If it was something that had happened in the last twenty years I could understand your logic but migration to this country from all areas of the world is something that is not new, is not different and there is absolutely no reason to believe that it is a part of human nature to ask somebody of 'brown colour' if they are from Africa. It is sheer ignorance. As I said above if this was combined with an unusual accent then it is a part of human nature to ask where they are from. I spent quite a lot of time in the states when i was younger and I was asked that all the time. There is a huge difference in just making an assumption because of skin colour.




:rolleyes: ...it is a sterotype because it is true, those with more differing features to the majority will be asked more questions on where they originate from - whats negative about it? nobody at all is making that suggestion that black skin is a negative feature or something to be negative towards, well, nobody apart from you.

It is Dan and you know it and is used frequently to target ethnic minorites. I suggest you google this headline and see what Stormforce say about the article. Also I don't think Dirrty is too happy about your comments either.




Sigh, yes thats how I as an adult would word the question. But in the case with this story, it is about a 7 year old is it not? and as you ought to know (which you evidently do not) that children do not understand language to the extent that we as adults do therefore will be more blunt when they ask questions.


I really can't believe i'm having to explain this.

Nowhere am I blaming the child here but even to ask the question they must have heard this before - they don't think of questions out of thin air. You can't believe you having to explain this? :P LOL. I can't believe you are defending attitudes that disappeared from this Country decades ago for the majority of the people.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Shortening an article is a lot different than manipulation of text to show your view.

I haven't manipulated it, I simply shortened it and excluded what the MP said on the matter - its not about party politics this article, so thats the least important part of it. Anywho, I provided the link.

But again, you go on about ignorance below - and you didn't even bother to click the link.


If it was something that had happened in the last twenty years I could understand your logic but migration to this country from all areas of the world is something that is not new, is not different and there is absolutely no reason to believe that it is a part of human nature to ask somebody of 'brown colour' if they are from Africa. It is sheer ignorance. As I said above if this was combined with an unusual accent then it is a part of human nature to ask where they are from. I spent quite a lot of time in the states when i was younger and I was asked that all the time. There is a huge difference in just making an assumption because of skin colour.

But it is unusual, people of a black colour are of a small minority in this country - even smaller in some areas than others. As it turns out, my friend was from Africa (Kenya) along with his family (where else would they be from? black skin is a genetic trait that comes from Africa and migration from Africa is a recent trend of the past 60 years) and wasn't put out at all, rather we spoke about Kenya at length.


It is Dan and you know it and is used frequently to target ethnic minorites. I suggest you google this headline and see what Stormforce say about the article.


So me asking my friend where his family originated from was me targeting an ethnic minority?

But you know whats the best part of all this, and it always appears to me to be true - its actually white politically correct do-gooders like yourself who end up being more 'offended' by situations like these than black people themselves. Indeed, black people themselves know they have originated from Africa and why? because the very obvious genetic trait of black skin comes from Africa.

Its all very clear stuff, unless you live on another planet.


Also I don't think Dirrty is too happy about your comments either.

Well Dirty just admitted he got the wrong end of the stick.


Nowhere am I blaming the child here but even to ask the question they must have heard this before - they don't think of questions out of thin air. You can't believe you having to explain this? :P LOL. I can't believe you are defending attitudes that disappeared from this Country decades ago for the majority of the people.

Children do ask questions out of thin air, they ask things like 'mummy why does that man have a funny face?' and all sorts of blunt and often loud questions. When I was younger I never stopped asking questions as my family told me, I remember my brother was facinated when he first saw a black man as was my cousin when my aunty had her black friend around - my cousin couldn't stop staring at him.

Why? because it isn't the usual in this country, and children don't have the mindset we have.

[e5]

A 7 year old will barely know what racism is?! His mum is right, he will be inquisitive! In no way in that racist asking a question if you don't know the answer! It's racist if it's directly being offensive about the Africans skin colour, which he wasn't. Not asking a simple genuine question!

[Zak]

I honestly couldn't give a crap about racism. Let people say what they want, if the other person doesn't like it let them deal with it themselves. I do get pissed off with some black people, as I do white people. I've never really been one for racist terms though.

All this publicity over something he wouldn't even think twice about saying. Ridiculous.

[Inseriousity.]

Nowhere am I blaming the child here but even to ask the question they must have heard this before - they don't think of questions out of thin air. You can't believe you having to explain this? :P LOL. I can't believe you are defending attitudes that disappeared from this Country decades ago for the majority of the people.

It's possible that he's seen the charity ads on TV where they're always black and saw a black person in class and just tried to connect the dots. That's the only explanation unless there are some bigoted people in his familywho casually say "they should all go back to Africa/Pakistan etc" (there are people like this in my family, lol they now say 'oh here goes michael, getting on his soapbox' cos I always call them out on it!) whenever immigration is mentioned.

Either way I don't think punishment is the answer. As dirrrrrrrrty says, it's ignorance so it's education that's neededalthough as they've seemed to move on from the 7 year old boy and talking generally, I do think it's the type of family I've mentioned above that causes the most damage and if there isn't anyone in that family with a braincell to argue against their bigotry, it's going to develop into adulthood.

[Jordy]

I honestly couldn't give a crap about racism. Let people say what they want, if the other person doesn't like it let them deal with it themselves. I do get pissed off with some black people, as I do white people. I've never really been one for racist terms though.

All this publicity over something he wouldn't even think twice about saying. Ridiculous.There I was thinking someone had already won the *REMOVED* and then you came along and won it by a country mile.

Edited by Chris (Forum Moderator): Please do not be rude!

[-:Undertaker:-]

There I was thinking someone had already won the *REMOVED* and then you came along and won it by a country mile.

Well you can always try and retake the lead.

[Jordy]

Well you can always try and retake the lead.I'd hate to step into unfamiliar territory

[Zak]

There I was thinking someone had already won the *REMOVED* and then you came along and won it by a country mile.

Edited by Chris (Forum Moderator): Please do not be rude!

Why's that? If I didn't like you I would say something, it's just the way I am.

I thought freedom of speech was a good thing? White people are always getting slated for anything remotely racist, yet when the tables are turned no-one gives a ****. I still say what I want to people and they can say what they want back, people are far too easily offended in this day and age.

Plus all this racism malarky just enforces the fact that blacks are different from whites, which is obviously not the case...

[Gibs960]

Yeah, I've got friends from Bangladesh and the first time I asked him he replied without hesitating or suspicion. I think a teacher has overheard the conversation, **** their knickers and ran to the head teacher.

I've been in a few incidents involving racism which I think is pathetic considering my dad was in the police for 32 years and is the most anti-racist person I know.

[GommeInc]

Alternatively, the offended child could of simply answered "no" to avoid such a lengthy debate between us and over-zealous teachers who jump the gun and lack a grasp of the English language :P

[Empired]

To me, it just looks like Elliot asked the question in the wrong way, asking "where are you from?" may have been a slightly less offensive way of putting it, but then are seven year olds really famous for their tactfulness?