PC or Mac?

[Robi]

I have always used a PC (windows) but have always wanted a Mac. I am 18, off to university in the summer and want a new laptop for university.

I would be studying web design and am wondering what is actually best. I am a massive fan of the OS X Snow Leopard and have had a look at their new update coming in July, but I just honestly want an opinion from someone who know's what would be best. I want to use something different and new, my mother argues the fact that it's harder to get software (without buying) such as microsoft office and photoshop etc etc.

Any views are welcome, as long as your arguement is backed up! I am currently set on buying the Macbook Pro.

Help :S

[jasey]

I would definitely go with the Macbook Pro. I am not going to lie and say that I am the tech expert that many people on this forum are but I have had a lot of experience with using a PC and a Mac. My first laptop when I was a younger teen was a Windows machine and it was a revolutionary computer for its time but it definitely came with all of its own problems. Windows machines tend to last for less time than Macs do from my experience. They are definitely easier to get things for - your Mother is right - because they are the more popular of the two.

That being said, I find the programs that are on Mac to be much more user friendly and functional. For the two things you mentioned - Office and Photoshop - you won't have any problems. Apple produces their own 'iWork' suite of programs (Pages, Keynote, Numbers) which is akin to the Microsoft Office suite. You might be pleasantly surprised with how well these programs work and how beautiful the results of working on them are. You can save in Windows-based file formats too so people using Windows will be able to read what you write. I work in the graphics field for a magazine so I had to legitimately buy the Adobe suite of programs (expensive) but I know that my ex was able to get a pirated copy of the newest Photoshop in two seconds on a popular torrent site and he used a Macbook Pro.

I have always been a fan of the Macbook Air and have bought one from each generation as they came out because they are more convenient for me. Anyways, when it boils down to the results I believe that Mac OSX is superior to Windows 7 and much more beautiful if you are in to aesthetics. PC users will tell you time and time again that Macs are overpriced for their hardware components and, while this is completely true, there are so many benefits to using a Mac that kind of counterbalance that argument.

I don't think people who use PCs are silly or stupid or anything. I think that Windows is the best choice for many people. I do believe, though, that for someone going in to webdevelopment a Macbook Pro would be a great choice. It will work with your course of study, last a long time and perform well. The customer service by Apple is also lovely. Sorry to ramble - I know this post is poorly written. I just kind of typed as I thought of things. Best of luck, friend!

[Recursion]

Firstly, go into a shop and try one out. Secondly, you'll save yourself £300 by waiting until you actually get to University because you get a student discount.

Don't believe what people say to you, both of them have many pros and cons and the programs are built pretty much the same, the only way to find out which one you'll like the most is by using them. Of course, you won't be able to play any games on a Mac though. Don't be fooled into thinking that just because you're doing a lot of graphics and web design work you need to use a Mac, in fact Photoshop was originally designed and made for Windows.

There's no denying Apple's customer service is brilliant though, and their unibody aluminium designs are verrrryyyy nice.

[Chippiewill]

I would be studying web design and am wondering what is actually best.
PC otherwise you can't test IE rendering without shelling out even more money.

Appearance - Mac
Performance - PC

[jasey]

PC otherwise you can't test IE rendering without shelling out even more money.

Appearance - Mac
Performance - PC

Oh dear, no! There are plenty of free tools online that let you test rendering in any browser you can think of. There are even programs you can download that do it without waiting online for a screenshot. I pay a pittance for a subscription to a very good preview site to see browser renders but as I just mentioned there are many free alternatives.

[Aiden]

Pc all day long

[Tomm]

Having a screenshot of a page or just seeing how it renders is not testing it. Most of the projects I work on now have many, many times more lines of javascript than html+css. How am I suppose to test that with a static preview?


Oh dear, no! There are plenty of free tools online that let you test rendering in any browser you can think of. There are even programs you can download that do it without waiting online for a screenshot. I pay a pittance for a subscription to a very good preview site to see browser renders but as I just mentioned there are many free alternatives.

[jasey]

Having a screenshot of a page or just seeing how it renders is not testing it. Most of the projects I work on now have many, many times more lines of javascript than html+css. How am I suppose to test that with a static preview?

A quick Google search will give you all sorts of options to get real-time previews of IE rendering on a Mac.

[Tomm]

I don't want a preview. How does a preview enable me to debug any javascript issues? How can I interact with the page? For example how could I test if of these were working correct:
http://jqueryui.com/demos/

Anyway, I was just making a point. You can actually test IE in mac properly by using these freely available VMs from microsoft:

http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=11575


A quick Google search will give you all sorts of options to get real-time previews of IE rendering on a Mac.

[jasey]

I don't want a preview. How does a preview enable me to debug any javascript issues? How can I interact with the page? For example how could I test if of these were working correct:
http://jqueryui.com/demos/

Anyway, I was just making a point. You can actually test IE in mac properly by using these freely available VMs from microsoft:

http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=11575

The last part of your post is exactly the point I was making. It is pedantic to argue against something when you know the opposite is completely true. Don't you think it is silly to argue that Macs can't help debug things like JS in IE when you know the method in which this is capable?

[Tomm]

If you look at my previous posts I never mentioned anything about not being able to do that on a Mac. I was actually pointing out the major pitfall in using a preview for testing how a page behaves in different browsers, which applies regardless of what operating system you are using. In fact, you still have the same problem on Windows due to the fact you can't (Well, can't without complications) run multiple versions of Internet Explorer.


The last part of your post is exactly the point I was making. It is pedantic to argue against something when you know the opposite is completely true. Don't you think it is silly to argue that Macs can't help debug things like JS in IE when you know the method in which this is capable?

[Recursion]

The last part of your post is exactly the point I was making. It is pedantic to argue against something when you know the opposite is completely true. Don't you think it is silly to argue that Macs can't help debug things like JS in IE when you know the method in which this is capable?

He was making the point tat what you originally said wasn't right.

I find these threads pointless, OPs never go with what people say anyway, and really shouldn't do. They need to go and try different machines out and find what is best for them and what they feel most comfortable using.

[jasey]

If you look at my previous posts I never mentioned anything about not being able to do that on a Mac. I was actually pointing out the major pitfall in using a preview for testing how a page behaves in different browsers, which applies regardless of what operating system you are using. In fact, you still have the same problem on Windows due to the fact you can't (Well, can't without complications) run multiple versions of Internet Explorer.

I can say, then, that we are kind of going in circles. The first post you made asked 'how you were supposed to test' live JS and the like on a Mac. You knew all along exactly the answer to that question! I guess having said that then our problem is solved.

EDIT:

He was making the point tat what you originally said wasn't right.

I find these threads pointless, OPs never go with what people say anyway, and really shouldn't do. They need to go and try different machines out and find what is best for them and what they feel most comfortable using.

I never said anything definite or incorrect, though. I think we have misinterpreted each other. While I did advocate and mention screenshot utilities akin to those like Adobe Browserlab I did also mention other downloadable alternatives that had more capabilities which is exactly what he decided to bring up a post or two later. Either way, I mostly agree with what you say there. It is a personal preference and I don't like threads that ask questions like 'PC or Mac' or 'Wii, XBOX or PS3' turning in to fan wars. I just wanted to give OP some input because I have experience with using both OS.

[Tomm]

I can say, then, that we are kind of going in circles. The first post you made asked 'how you were supposed to test' live JS and the like on a Mac. You knew all along exactly the answer to that question! I guess having said that then our problem is solved.


I never said the "on a Mac" part.

[jasey]

I never said the "on a Mac" part.

No, you didn't in your first post. We were discussing testing IE on a Mac though and you replied to that and a later post confirmed that is exactly what you were talking about. Let's not split hairs. Anyways, I don't like to debate in a thread asking for advice. Nevertheless, I think you have made some very good points that will help OP so I am going to give you REP. I mention that because I don't want you to think I was being sarcastic in REP'ing you. Cheers, Tom!

[peteyt]

It all comes down to personal preference. To me however Mac's are kind of like ipod's, Iphones, it's about how expensive they are, buying them shows of your wealth. They may look really nice, but to me features and price come first.

It seems Mac's are used for students and designers but Window's can design stuff, adobe is available on both Windows and Macs. Also if your a gamer then Mac's are a bad choice - there are quite a few games on Steam now Mac available but there still is a huge gap.

My advice is this - firstly don't go buying a mac thinking its undestructable as in no viruses, it doesn't have errors - there are viruses and I feel that because people believe there isn't it probably puts them more at risk than on Windows where at least they are aware of the dangers and Macs can break. Then try them out, compare the features, prices, what software you want to use and which operating system you can use it on and then basically test them out as someone mentioned, find out which is easier for you.

[triston220]

Let me start out by saying that I have a Mac as well as a Windows laptop, so my thoughts are fairly impartial.

Since you've been using Windows the the majority of your life, switching to the Mac OS may prove to be a little challenge. Although you may only spend an extra five seconds every time you want to do something, that time will add up. And at university, you cannot afford to be doing that. I would suggest buying the Mac in advance, but you would be forced to pay an extra £300(ish).

The only thing that would make designing on a Mac better is the display that some of them have. This all depends on the alternatives you are looking at though.

The one fantastic upside to buying a new Mac is the ability to get Apple Care. Be aware though, they just replace your computer if there's an issue. Keep your work backed up.

[:.justben.:]

Im getting both i tell u which is best

[Recursion]

Im getting both i tell u which is best

That was such a helpful post and I'm sure we'll see both your unneeded reviews of two totally incomparable platforms.... never? ;)

[Chippiewill]

The only thing that would make designing on a Mac better is the display that some of them have.
I'm not to fond of the Mac screens, I've found that the iMacs at my school show squares as slight rectangles.

[Robi]

I think some very good points have been made, although the main issue I was worried was software based. I know that Apple Care is very good and that Mac's are known for running Adobe programmes well etc, is the software (i.e ms word) the same or similar? price difference?

Also, I was considering the 13" Macbook Pro (taking a look and looking to play about on it etc) but noticed the 15" is over £500 MORE just for 2 inches? That's a joke.

[Recursion]

I think some very good points have been made, although the main issue I was worried was software based. I know that Apple Care is very good and that Mac's are known for running Adobe programmes well etc, is the software (i.e ms word) the same or similar? price difference?

Also, I was considering the 13" Macbook Pro (taking a look and looking to play about on it etc) but noticed the 15" is over £500 MORE just for 2 inches? That's a joke.

The 15" also has better graphics etc. Macs DO NOT run Adobe programmes better than Windows.

[Robi]

The 15" also has better graphics etc. Macs DO NOT run Adobe programmes better than Windows.

Ah okay, I heard the 15" has better speakers, not that it matters. Regarding the Adobe thing, must of read that somewhere :S Hmm.

[Conspiracy.]

I'd go into a shop and try a Mac out first. I used them in college when I was doing Art & Design which is where I fell in love <3

Personally, I vote for Mac. I find them easier to use, they're more reliable, they're a LOT less prone to viruses/malware/whatnot and let's face it, everything is nicer to look at. You get what you pay for in my opinion.

As for the software there are a LOT of Mac Alternatives out there.

http://alternativeto.net/

That site was so handy when I first bought my Mac.

[Robi]

Thanks for the link Conspiracy, have bookmarked that if I do get my Mac. Will go into a shop and have a play, maybe talk to their "genius" people..

[:.justben.:]

That was such a helpful post and I'm sure we'll see both your unneeded reviews of two totally incomparable platforms.... never? ;)

How they unneed if he asked which is better? Im trying t help so shut up

[Recursion]

The amount of Apple fanboyism and false information floating around in this thread makes me want to smash my head against a wall.

[GommeInc]

Judging by your location you could go over to Bluewater Shopping Centre and try out an iMac/MacBook Pro in the Apple store there and see if you like it, and then compare it to a Windows machine. That said, I'm not aware of computers like iMacs, MacBook Pros, Windows 7 desktop PCs or laptops running any development tools on display machines in stores, so just go with whatever is your focus for development - Mac or Windows based.

Asking these sorts of questions online is never going to work though, too many strong opinions fighting against each other and no clear understanding of what you see or want in a product.

[Conspiracy.]

here's a video I found :)

http://www.videojug.com/film/mac-or-pc-2 (http://www.teenhelp.org/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.videojug.com%2Ffilm%2Fm ac-or-pc-2)

It is outdated but most of the things he mentions are still right.

[xxMATTGxx]

here's a video I found :)

http://www.videojug.com/film/mac-or-pc-2 (http://www.teenhelp.org/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.videojug.com%2Ffilm%2Fm ac-or-pc-2)

It is outdated but most of the things he mentions are still right.

Well they aren't because it's still outdated for both sides, Windows and Macs. I also kinda stopped listening when he mentioned viruses and malware.

"Macs are stable and secure"

Windows is stable and secure - It's just their is more viruses and malware for the PC but it doesn't mean Apple Macs don't get them. Anyway: Microsoft do a very good Anti-Virus for free one called "Microsoft Security Essentials" and there are many other alternatives as it's user choice on that. It also helps if the user has common sense!

"Good for multimedia out of the box" - Well so is a PC to some aspect and if you really wanted to more advanced stuff then you would buy software on Windows and a Mac.

[GommeInc]

Well they aren't because it's still outdated for both sides, Windows and Macs. I also kinda stopped listening when he mentioned viruses and malware.

"Macs are stable and secure"
Urgh, I hate that old argument too :P All computers, be it PC or Mac, are secure and stable. It's the sack of meat using the thing which is stupid enough to download malicious things to begin with who is to blame.

[Chippiewill]

Macs DO NOT run Adobe programmes better than Windows.
Technically they run better on windows considering cost for performance. But in terms of roughly equal hardware they run identically on both platforms.


Windows is stable and secure - It's just their is more viruses and malware for the PC but it doesn't mean Apple Macs don't get them. Anyway: Microsoft do a very good Anti-Virus for free one called "Microsoft Security Essentials" and there are many other alternatives as it's user choice on that. It also helps if the user has common sense!
Comes with Windows 8 as well.

Technically back in '02 both platforms were equally prone to an attack, Microsoft has really stepped their game up on the security side and Apple has always been notoriously slow at fixing security problems even when when told what the problem is. Apple is relying on security through obscurity and it's only going to take one conficker type of attack for everyone to wake up from the dream-world that Mac is a secure platform.

[Markeh]

I think everyone is forgetting that he could have both. He could potentially buy a MacBook Pro and install Windows 7 using Boot Camp, allowing him to use both OSs for whichever things the other can't do. Then he would get the benefits of the Apple hardware and legitimate OS X use and could also use Windows if there is anything he cannot do using OS X.

This could be done with any Windows laptop in theory but I won't go into details, it might be against forum rules.

[Recursion]

I think everyone is forgetting that he could have both. He could potentially buy a MacBook Pro and install Windows 7 using Boot Camp, allowing him to use both OSs for whichever things the other can't do. Then he would get the benefits of the Apple hardware and legitimate OS X use and could also use Windows if there is anything he cannot do using OS X.

This could be done with any Windows laptop in theory but I won't go into details, it might be against forum rules.

There are no benefits to using Apple hardware... especially considering it's exactly the same as you find in a Windows machine

[triston220]

Then he would get the benefits of the Apple hardware and legitimate OS X use and could also use Windows if there is anything he cannot do using OS X.

Mac have zero hardware benefits.

[triston220]

I obviously meant Mac in my above post.

Another reason not to get a Mac for graphics is the terrible Mouse acceleration curve that OS X has.

[Chippiewill]

There are no benefits to using Apple hardware... especially considering it's exactly the same as you find in a Windows machine
Especially since they charge £500 for RAM which costs around £120 at most. Lower frequency as well.

[Stephen!]

You'll end up running Windows 7 on the Mac anyway. Everyone I know does.

[Recursion]

You'll end up running Windows 7 on the Mac anyway. Everyone I know does.

Guilty.

[triston220]

You'll end up running Windows 7 on the Mac anyway. Everyone I know does.

I'm guilty of this.

[efq]

I was PC all the way until I got myself a MacBook Pro, will never go back again. Love it.

[FiftyCal]

If you ever want to play a wide variety of games, get a PC. Macs are overpriced imo.

[efq]

If you ever want to play a wide variety of games, get a PC. Macs are overpriced imo.
Yeah, my MBP can handle some games but defo not for games. I use my MacBook for browsing, watching movies/shows, doing work and documents. It's like a middle-aged guy's laptop that he can stay organised and do his work on. At an expensive but worth it price.

[peteyt]

Yeah, my MBP can handle some games but defo not for games. I use my MacBook for browsing, watching movies/shows, doing work and documents. It's like a middle-aged guy's laptop that he can stay organised and do his work on. At an expensive but worth it price.

See that always confuses me. I'm a big fan of both Mac's and PC's but I do think the PC is the best - just curious what makes it different to a pc in your opinion because you can do documents, works, films, organise stuff etc. and play games on a windows for much less.

Some people say it's the design, but you can get themes and stuff to change Windows to look like a Mac - not sure if they are fully functionable but they may work with most things. Security wise, mac's only are less effected due to its small market share but I am sure one day we will see something dangerous happen to it, I mean they do sell security products for Macs.

I do like Mac's and I suppose if I had a lot of money I'd get one, I'm definitely not a hater as such, but if you do have a budget and need money for other stuff e.g. being a student, rent and so on, a Windows computer/laptop is always a cheaper option with the same functionality.

[Tomm]

Has £1000+ laptop, only uses for some simple browsing of web, watching videos and editing documents.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/112/480/OpoQQ.jpg


Yeah, my MBP can handle some games but defo not for games. I use my MacBook for browsing, watching movies/shows, doing work and documents. It's like a middle-aged guy's laptop that he can stay organised and do his work on. At an expensive but worth it price.

[Jack!]

Has £1000+ laptop, only uses for some simple browsing of web, watching videos and editing documents.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/112/480/OpoQQ.jpg

Its not like it can do much more is it really? :rolleyes: