2012: Will the world really end? [ENDS 29/04/2012]

[Grig]

2012: Will the world really end?
Ends: 29/04/2012

This notion of the world ending at the end of this year, although to some may seem insane, might not actually be. There is a lot of evidence for both sides of the argument, too much evidence almost. I will briefly outline some of it.

Some things for the world ending include a nuclear fallout, an large still unidentified asteroid, the Universe being pulled into a black hole etc. There is also the evidence that the Mayan calender ends on 21 December 2012.

Others argue that there is no conclusive scientific proof to say the world is actually going to end and that scholars couldn't find such bold predictions in Mayan accounts. They say it is a bunch of pseudoscience.

I could ramble on and on, but it is your time to answer whether doomsday is upon us. Debate away!

[Neversoft]

There's a lot of evidence for both sides? This is the first time I've heard that.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012.html

The world won't end in 2012. /debate

[Grig]

There's a lot of evidence for both sides? This is the first time I've heard that.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012.html

The world won't end in 2012. /debate

I guess I'm going to have to debate within my own debate here. Yes there are. You are basing your reasoning purely on science here and on what NASA tells you.

NASA and science has far from found every near earth object that could potentially pose a great risk to the human race. Evidence shows it, such as in 2002 there were 2 whole meteor incidents that were not recorded by NASA. Furthermore, in 2008 we had a similar situation where a meteoroid named TC3 was spotted a day before impact, unknown to NASA before. Who is to say such things such as massive asteroids aren't covered up to prevent large scale panic?

Also, who is to say we won't go to nuclear war with Iran or even North Korea. That is something science cannot prove.

[Zelda]

Remember hearing something about how the mayan calender has ended before and so that's a load of rubbish tbh. Also, is there was a black hole other stuff nearer to it would likely have gone and there has been no vanishing of things that we have seen in last however long you want to way that we are so close to being sucked into it, and to believe stuff like the mayan calendar then you might aswell believe that there is white holes, in which case the world wouldn't even end with the black hole.
Nuclear fall out could happen admitadlly, but the chances of wiping the whole planet out and for it to happen on that day makes winning the lottery look as easy as just filling in your 6 numbers and winning a few million quid.
On topic of the asteroid, we should look at a few factors -
1) if it is one of the factors about the dinosaurs dying, very likely, then that shows that life will indeed carry on, and some things will survive past it anyway.
2) nearly all asteroids would never be big enough, and if they are, are more likely to be dragged iron a planet with a much bigger gravity field, and would also likely reduce in size from atmosphere burning it up anyway.

Indeed however, the threat of an asteroid still remains, but a point to remember is that there is no longer such a widespread amount of volcanic activity, even I'd it managed to cause lake tons to erupt from impact, it would be nowhere as severe as in the distant past, and would likely only represent around an 80% wipeout, give or take 10%. You have to remember that also an asteroid will still leave some life, the chances of EVERYTHING being wiped out is minimal.

In all honesty, the whole thing is a scare from exteremists, and with common sence it seems extremely unlikely, also to venture to the quantum lane, I'd we were all indeed to believe that it won't happen, even if it sefinately will happen, the collective power of that belief would be great enough to change this, especially if all thought at the same time, plus we have to also remember that life will go on in every other dimension where this doesn't happen, as we know it will happen in one dimension for sure constantly in every manner possible, but there will always be an infinite number of other dimensions where every other possibility is being carried out, therefore technically the world will never fully end at any given moment.

(Sorry for any weird words, written this on phone so some may be slightly gibberish)

[GirlNextDoor15]

This debate topic is ridiculous imo. How can there be lots of evidence for both sides of arguments?

If I agree, you may say the predictions done by whatever different civilisations weren't true. So, why this one?

But if I disagree, then I'm just lying to myself as obviously the world is going to end someday. So, why not 2012? How can I know? I don't have psychic powers. I can listen to NASA's stories etc and believe that the world isn't gonna end in 2012. But, there's a saying that goes like this. If we can predict the future, poor people shouldn't exist in this world at all.

[Zelda]

In terms of nucleur war, that is possible I suppose, but are we really that stupid to let it happen, if u really think MI5 and MI6 and whatever else we don't know about as the public doesn't probably have double agents who could completely sabotage the nuclear weapons then I think a reminder of how cleverly Tar Robinson wove into the Germans with double spies to cause massive damage is due. one thing is for certain, we may not know much about our military intelligance but they certainly know a lot about what we don't know, and it foes without saying that there must be a huge number of backup plans if nuclear war breaks out.

[GommeInc]

Personally I don't think it will. It's hard to support such a belief with evidence, other than call forth life as a witness against those who believe it will end and their conspiracy theories and loose facts based on the Maya.

[The Don]

In terms of nucleur war, that is possible I suppose, but are we really that stupid to let it happen, if u really think MI5 and MI6 and whatever else we don't know about as the public doesn't probably have double agents who could completely sabotage the nuclear weapons then I think a reminder of how cleverly Tar Robinson wove into the Germans with double spies to cause massive damage is due. one thing is for certain, we may not know much about our military intelligance but they certainly know a lot about what we don't know, and it foes without saying that there must be a huge number of backup plans if nuclear war breaks out.

You've been watching far too many films, Even if a nuclear war broke out (Which it won't) It wouldn't be the end of the world...

I think this debate is a bit silly, someone please provide me with one argument in favour of the world ending in 2012.

[Chippiewill]

a)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcc_KAhwpa0
b) "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence". Since there is no evidence for or against the wacky theories we can forget the issue.

And in terms of an argument, for really complicated logic reasons if something is not falsifiable then it cannot be presented as an argument and if it is not an a priori truth then it can only be regarded as false.

[FlyingJesus]

I guess I'm going to have to debate within my own debate here. Yes there are. You are basing your reasoning purely on science here and on what NASA tells you.

NASA and science has far from found every near earth object that could potentially pose a great risk to the human race. Evidence shows it, such as in 2002 there were 2 whole meteor incidents that were not recorded by NASA. Furthermore, in 2008 we had a similar situation where a meteoroid named TC3 was spotted a day before impact, unknown to NASA before. Who is to say such things such as massive asteroids aren't covered up to prevent large scale panic?

Also, who is to say we won't go to nuclear war with Iran or even North Korea. That is something science cannot prove.

Coincidence and possibility is not something you can debate about. I could say THE WORLD MIGHT END TOMORROW AND YOU CAN'T DISPROVE ME BECAUSE ENOUGH DESTRUCTIVE POWER DOES EXIST and be correct, but there's no way to debate that to any end other than "ok maybe, but probably not"

[Inseriousity.]

No the world isn't going to end in 2012 but just in case, I won't do christmas shopping til after the 21st.

[Neversoft]

You are basing your reasoning purely on science here

Yeah because science is completely uninspired, baseless and out-and-out absurd.

And we could enter nuclear war at any time. Why does it have to be associated with 2012? I'm not really sure what you're arguing here.

[Catchy]

This debate topic is ridiculous imo. How can there be lots of evidence for both sides of arguments?

If I agree, you may say the predictions done by whatever different civilisations weren't true. So, why this one?

But if I disagree, then I'm just lying to myself as obviously the world is going to end someday. So, why not 2012? How can I know? I don't have psychic powers. I can listen to NASA's stories etc and believe that the world isn't gonna end in 2012. But, there's a saying that goes like this. If we can predict the future, poor people shouldn't exist in this world at all.

I actually agree with something you say for once, lmao! Is there actually any solid proof for the world ending in 2012? I don't think so... Yeah you can listen to NASA stories and whatever else anyone tells you but at the end of the day, what we're told and what is actually going to happen are two completely different things. Like the saying goes, you can't believe everything you read. What gets me is something drastic is supposed to happen probably every other year or so it seems or people believe, yet it never does. Maybe the world will end in 2012, who knows but you can't go about debating wether it will happen or not cause that's just absolutely ridiculous. You could walk outside and get hit by a bus today, so in reality this debate is really just pointless.

[Lewis]

Whether there's any evidence on either side if it's not going to happen or it is, just share your opinions and why you think it will/won't!

In my own opinion, I don't think the world will end at all. Of course, some day a huge black hole or whatever may appear and kill us all and destroy earth, whatever you want to say. But I don't think we should say the world is going to end before we have solid evidence and not some ancient predictions... and so on. if they were even predictions! And so, I think the only way to find out is by living, the world could end at any second, any minute and any day. Although I really don't believe that the world will end in 2012, I will feel a bit... I don't know how to describe it, err worried on the day! This is my opinion on any date for the end of the world, and 2012. Something wrong could happen at any moment in space, sometimes predictable and sometimes not... we'll just have to wait and see what happens lol!!

However, I do believe the world will end and if not by any other disaster, but by the destruction of our star, the sun. Stars have a life, obviously not alive-alive but they have a life cycle and the bigger the star is the shorter it lives, and I think our sun has around 4 billion years of life left. When it dies, earth will burn and planets shall be sucked in! If it's true that stars don't live forever, then this will happen and we definately won't be here to witness it.

[Zelda]

Whether there's any evidence on either side if it's not going to happen or it is, just share your opinions and why you think it will/won't!

In my own opinion, I don't think the world will end at all. Of course, some day a huge black hole or whatever may appear and kill us all and destroy earth, whatever you want to say. But I don't think we should say the world is going to end before we have solid evidence and not some ancient predictions... and so on. if they were even predictions! And so, I think the only way to find out is by living, the world could end at any second, any minute and any day. Although I really don't believe that the world will end in 2012, I will feel a bit... I don't know how to describe it, err worried on the day! This is my opinion on any date for the end of the world, and 2012. Something wrong could happen at any moment in space, sometimes predictable and sometimes not... we'll just have to wait and see what happens lol!!

However, I do believe the world will end and if not by any other disaster, but by the destruction of our star, the sun. Stars have a life, obviously not alive-alive but they have a life cycle and the bigger the star is the shorter it lives, and I think our sun has around 4 billion years of life left. When it dies, earth will burn and planets shall be sucked in! If it's true that stars don't live forever, then this will happen and we definately won't be here to witness it.

Black holes don't just appear, there is not any close enough stars to even create a black hole around here, the main one I can think of in our galaxy that will definately make one is beatlegeuse, and that won't be close enough to affect us for a long long time, let alone will it even become a black hole before our the sun has completely destroyed this planet in the red giant phase. Just to remind you of the black hole formation -

Star ---> Super Giant (If big enough mass) --> White Dwarf ---> Supernova (If big enough mass) --> neutron star --> Black hole (If big enough mass)

Yea the black hole stuff is a bit of rubbis to be honest, there won't be a new one to destroy our planet in time anyway, and if there was one currently then stuff would be disapeering wouldn't it ; L

[Lewis]

Black holes don't just appear, there is not any close enough stars to even create a black hole around here, the main one I can think of in our galaxy that will definately make one is beatlegeuse, and that won't be close enough to affect us for a long long time, let alone will it even become a black hole before our the sun has completely destroyed this planet in the red giant phase. Just to remind you of the black hole formation -

Star ---> Super Giant (If big enough mass) --> White Dwarf ---> Supernova (If big enough mass) --> neutron star --> Black hole (If big enough mass)

Yea the black hole stuff is a bit of rubbis to be honest, there won't be a new one to destroy our planet in time anyway, and if there was one currently then stuff would be disapeering wouldn't it ; L


I didn't mean it'd randomly appear, I just meant however it could come somehow by something - basically saying anything could happen at any moment to destroy the earth, and possibly there's a million things we don't know.

I wasn't saying that we were going to get destroyed by a blackhole, I was simply saying anything could happen at any time and sometimes we may notice and be prepared for it, but this won't be the case forever and a disaster like this could happen. But I don't believe it'll happen in 2012.

[beth]

i can't believe this is even a debate.

no it won't. i don't even think i have anything more to add. it just won't.

[iLogan]

The world is as likely to end in 2012 than it is tomorrow. Unlikely but still possible.

[Lewis]

The world is as likely to end in 2012 than it is tomorrow. Unlikely but still possible.

Agreed here, as I've said in my posts above.

[GommeInc]

The world is as likely to end in 2012 than it is tomorrow. Unlikely but still possible.
Pretty much summed up this debate :P

[Charlie]

It isn't going to end but even if it did, what we going to do about it? How can we stop something as big as the world coming to an end for whatever reason? You might as well just carry on and whatever happens, happens.

[Milarz]

There was a man, that lived thousands of years, many years ago, he predicted so many future events that would happen, that DID happen, such as the Bali tsunami, 2001 trade centres & so on. One of the others, were something will happen.. in 2012. I don't think it will be the end, but something may happen.

[FlyingJesus]

There was a man, that lived thousands of years, many years ago, he predicted so many future events that would happen, that DID happen, such as the Bali tsunami, 2001 trade centres & so on. One of the others, were something will happen.. in 2012. I don't think it will be the end, but something may happen.

Thousands of years ago someone predicted that vehicles which didn't exist at the time would be hijacked by people from a county which didn't exist at the time to attack another country that didn't exist at the time by using these vehicles as single-use battering rams to destroy symbols of an economic model which (you guessed it!) didn't exist at the time. I see.

That said, I think you're on about Nostradamus whose easily twisted and interpreted book of predictions was only like 500 years ago, but the above points are all still relevant.

[The Don]

There was a man, that lived thousands of years, many years ago, he predicted so many future events that would happen, that DID happen, such as the Bali tsunami, 2001 trade centres & so on. One of the others, were something will happen.. in 2012. I don't think it will be the end, but something may happen.

That isn't an argument for a debate

[CaptainAce$$]

Nope, I don't believe the world will end just yet.

[KymKo]

a)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcc_KAhwpa0
b) "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence". Since there is no evidence for or against the wacky theories we can forget the issue.

And in terms of an argument, for really complicated logic reasons if something is not falsifiable then it cannot be presented as an argument and if it is not an a priori truth then it can only be regarded as false.

Great video, but it doesnt really proove anything

[shiver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzU9OrZlKb8

gonna listen to this on repeat on 21st december.

[efq]

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012.html


Remember the Y2K scare? It came and went without much of a whimper because of adequate planning and analysis of the situation. Impressive movie special effects aside, Dec. 21, 2012, won't be the end of the world as we know. It will, however, be another winter solstice.

Much like Y2K, 2012 has been analyzed and the science of the end of the Earth thoroughly studied. Contrary to some of the common beliefs out there, the science behind the end of the world quickly unravels when pinned down to the 2012 timeline. Below, NASA Scientists answer several questions that we're frequently asked regarding 2012.

Question (Q): Are there any threats to the Earth in 2012? Many Internet websites say the world will end in December 2012.
Answer (A) : Nothing bad will happen to the Earth in 2012. Our planet has been getting along just fine for more than 4 billion years, and credible scientists worldwide know of no threat associated with 2012.

Q: What is the origin of the prediction that the world will end in 2012?
A: The story started with claims that Nibiru, a supposed planet discovered by the Sumerians, is headed toward Earth. This catastrophe was initially predicted for May 2003, but when nothing happened the doomsday date was moved forward to December 2012. Then these two fables were linked to the end of one of the cycles in the ancient Mayan calendar at the winter solstice in 2012 -- hence the predicted doomsday date of December 21, 2012.

Q: Does the Mayan calendar end in December 2012?
A: Just as the calendar you have on your kitchen wall does not cease to exist after December 31, the Mayan calendar does not cease to exist on December 21, 2012. This date is the end of the Mayan long-count period but then -- just as your calendar begins again on January 1 -- another long-count period begins for the Mayan calendar.

Q: Could phenomena occur where planets align in a way that impacts Earth?
A: There are no planetary alignments in the next few decades, Earth will not cross the galactic plane in 2012, and even if these alignments were to occur, their effects on the Earth would be negligible. Each December the Earth and sun align with the approximate center of the Milky Way Galaxy but that is an annual event of no consequence.
› More about alignment (http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-alignment.html)

"There apparently is a great deal of interest in celestial bodies, and their locations and trajectories at the end of the calendar year 2012. Now, I for one love a good book or movie as much as the next guy. But the stuff flying around through cyberspace, TV and the movies is not based on science. There is even a fake NASA news release out there..."
- Don Yeomans, NASA senior research scientist

Q: Is there a planet or brown dwarf called Nibiru or Planet X or Eris that is approaching the Earth and threatening our planet with widespread destruction?
A: Nibiru and other stories about wayward planets are an Internet hoax. There is no factual basis for these claims. If Nibiru or Planet X were real and headed for an encounter with the Earth in 2012, astronomers would have been tracking it for at least the past decade, and it would be visible by now to the naked eye. Obviously, it does not exist. Eris is real, but it is a dwarf planet similar to Pluto that will remain in the outer solar system; the closest it can come to Earth is about 4 billion miles.

Q: What is the polar shift theory? Is it true that the earth’s crust does a 180-degree rotation around the core in a matter of days if not hours?
A: A reversal in the rotation of Earth is impossible. There are slow movements of the continents (for example Antarctica was near the equator hundreds of millions of years ago), but that is irrelevant to claims of reversal of the rotational poles. However, many of the disaster websites pull a bait-and-switch to fool people. They claim a relationship between the rotation and the magnetic polarity of Earth, which does change irregularly, with a magnetic reversal taking place every 400,000 years on average. As far as we know, such a magnetic reversal doesn’t cause any harm to life on Earth. A magnetic reversal is very unlikely to happen in the next few millennia, anyway.
› More about polar shift (http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-poleReversal.html)

Q: Is the Earth in danger of being hit by a meteor in 2012?
A: The Earth has always been subject to impacts by comets and asteroids, although big hits are very rare. The last big impact was 65 million years ago, and that led to the extinction of the dinosaurs. Today NASA astronomers are carrying out a survey called the Spaceguard Survey to find any large near-Earth asteroids long before they hit. We have already determined that there are no threatening asteroids as large as the one that killed the dinosaurs. All this work is done openly with the discoveries posted every day on the NASA NEO Program Office website (http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/), so you can see for yourself that nothing is predicted to hit in 2012.

Q: How do NASA scientists feel about claims of pending doomsday?
A: For any claims of disaster or dramatic changes in 2012, where is the science? Where is the evidence? There is none, and for all the fictional assertions, whether they are made in books, movies, documentaries or over the Internet, we cannot change that simple fact. There is no credible evidence for any of the assertions made in support of unusual events taking place in December 2012.
› Why you need not fear a supernova (http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-supernova.html)
› About super volcanoes (http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-superVolcano.html)

Q: Is there a danger from giant solar storms predicted for 2012?
A: Solar activity has a regular cycle, with peaks approximately every 11 years. Near these activity peaks, solar flares can cause some interruption of satellite communications, although engineers are learning how to build electronics that are protected against most solar storms. But there is no special risk associated with 2012. The next solar maximum will occur in the 2012-2014 time frame and is predicted to be an average solar cycle, no different than previous cycles throughout history.

[David]

No. because that's my birthday.

But the mayans didn't account for leap years and such - 21st of December 2012 has been and gone and we're still here.

[GirlNextDoor15]

where is grig now? it's 1st of may already