Under moderation in graphics., rules anyone?

[dbgtz]

So I reported a post yesterday because it was pointless. Whilst I appreciate the want to loosen moderation, the posts were just so pointless. I overlooked it for a while but it just frustrated and I reported having stated it was not the first, all by the same person aswell.

http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=743279&p=7491934#post7491934
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=744858&p=7502801#post7502801
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=743642&p=7491928#post7491928
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=744454&p=7497771#post7497771
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=744181&p=7496774#post7496774
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=744678&p=7500229#post7500229
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=743023&p=7491944#post7491944
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=744119&p=7495067#post7495067

I would like to add this is not an attack on the user as clearly the rules are never enforced.

Continuing on, it has also been seen that no one wants this relaxed moderation in graphics. Also my change of rule idea was seemingly ignored considering no relevant staff actually posted. Both points are seen here: http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=743861

The graphics forum on here just seems like any other forum and I rarely have the botheredness to post in there anymore due to the fact I can foresee 90% of comments (and I'm betting you foresaw I posted this). The graphics forum has really gone downhill in the quantity of posting, and I think that by allowing such useless posting on posts which want serious feedback puts people off posting in the forum.

[beth]

i have just been looking at sam's new chibi thread where she specifically asked for c+c and everything (apart from 2 posts towards the end) "so cute". it's like what.......

[Kyle]

you have to realise that if a pretty picture is posted and somebody likes it but has no graphical knowledge whatsoever they aren't likely to just exit the thread. besides, most people that post their art/photography etc. don't really post for cc.

always gonna have a few of us who are critical and (although sometimes it doesnt seem so) want to offer advice for improvement and then the majority of others who just like looking at pictures or want a few quick post count. oh well.

[dbgtz]

you have to realise that if a pretty picture is posted and somebody likes it but has no graphical knowledge whatsoever they aren't likely to just exit the thread. besides, most people that post their art/photography etc. don't really post for cc.

always gonna have a few of us who are critical and (although sometimes it doesnt seem so) want to offer advice for improvement and then the majority of others who just like looking at pictures or want a few quick post count. oh well.

You don't need graphical knowledge to have an opinion on certain aspects or whatever. Anyway, the suggested rule would suggest anything (within reason) can be replied unless the OP specifically asks for some CC.

[Grig]

you have to realise that if a pretty picture is posted and somebody likes it but has no graphical knowledge whatsoever they aren't likely to just exit the thread. besides, most people that post their art/photography etc. don't really post for cc.

always gonna have a few of us who are critical and (although sometimes it doesnt seem so) want to offer advice for improvement and then the majority of others who just like looking at pictures or want a few quick post count. oh well.

yeh and the "greats" are usually despite a few faults in the photos etc. But then again, people who actually want help won't go here to post them, but an actual photography forum. If the rules are changed, you risk constructive posts being there, but activity plummeting short term, maybe longer term it could get more people to post, dunno.

[Kyle]

[@]dbgtz[/@] but there is no rule that states that other people that don't personally see anything wrong with it can't tell the OP that it's a nice piece. never going to be able to stop pointless posting and tbh warning every user that posts a comment like 'that's great' or 'i like it' is just going to deter people further. grin and bear it imo.

[Plebings]

[@]dbgtz[/@] but there is no rule that states that other people that don't personally see anything wrong with it can't tell the OP that it's a nice piece. never going to be able to stop pointless posting and tbh warning every user that posts a comment like 'that's great' or 'i like it' is just going to deter people further. grin and bear it imo.

this really,

i'm as unopinionated as they come, the only comment i'd make on graphics would probably be 'well done', 'that's nice' etc, the forum is pretty quiet as it is, we don't need to deter people further as kyle says.

[Samantha]

I wasn't too fussed that I didn't get CC. It's mainly when I post something other than a Chibi whereby I get about 30 replies of the same thing. I also sort of held on to no hope even with asking for CC I didn't mind that one admitted that they didn't have CC for me and told me why; I don't mind that. If it's a one off sort of thing I don't mind.

This is about the 3rd thread on graphics in a couple of months and they all seem to get ignored, not sure why if I'm honest as I think graphics can be a really active part of the forum.

Was it Dave.; who said that you should get CC when asked could have been Kyle; Kasabian; or dbgtz; and if not it should be classed as pointless. I mean it would suffice if on a thread they said 'I don't like the hair, it looks odd, overall it's cute though' least it's giving more depth. Also, not digging at any member as so many members do it so you can't pin point one!

[Jordan]

I do like the idea of if they ask for CC you give it to them, if you ain't don't reply. It is annoying when you see people replying to threads with stupid replies when the OP asks for some actual feedback on how to improve. Would be good if scott; brandon; have a look into this.

[GommeInc]

None of those posts were pointless :/ They were all in context and served a purpose - he liked the alts. You're suggesting that members should be more descriptive when making posts, and suggesting all members should be strong, art critics :P

[scott]

I think it would make the Graphics forum dead if we introduced a rule that people have to always post constructive criticism. I used to do some graphics design work for Habbox but I wouldn't go into a thread in the graphics forum and constantly scrutinize someone's work. Personally if I posted some of my work I'd much rather a reply from someone saying that they liked my work and liked what I had made than just nobody replying at all. Maybe that's just me though :p

[FlyingJesus]

None of those posts were pointless :/ They were all in context and served a purpose - he liked the alts. You're suggesting that members should be more descriptive when making posts, and suggesting all members should be strong, art critics :P

In threads that specifically ask for CC then yes, those members who reply ought to have enough knowledge of the area to serve as an art critic. Someone with no graphical knowledge posting "WOW THAT'S GOOD!" when an image is either obviously flawed or requiring actual creative input is not contributing to the thread in any way, just like if I went into a thread in the vehicles area that shows a customised engine system and asks for any suggestions but instead I just wrote "I LIKE THE PAINT"

For threads that do just ask "do you like it/what do you think" etc it's fine, but if a thread is specifically made to serve a purpose then people not posting to that purpose are quite literally posting off-topic and therefore pointlessly

[GommeInc]

I think it would make the Graphics forum dead if we introduced a rule that people have to always post constructive criticism. I used to do some graphics design work for Habbox but I wouldn't go into a thread in the graphics forum and constantly scrutinize someone's work. Personally if I posted some of my work I'd much rather a reply from someone saying that they liked my work and liked what I had made than just nobody replying at all. Maybe that's just me though :p
Agreed. Back when I bothered making alts a quick comment about whether they liked it or not was enough. In fact, there was never really any bad comments, just positive criticisms and the odd "It's a great alt Gomme :D" replies were enough. You shouldn't expect everyone to become a critic posting why they like or dislike it. You wouldn't walk into a gallery and hear everyone giving a full sheet explanation on their thoughts, so you shouldn't expect it online. It's a forum to socialise and get away from work.


In threads that specifically ask for CC then yes, those members who reply ought to have enough knowledge of the area to serve as an art critic. Someone with no graphical knowledge posting "WOW THAT'S GOOD!" when an image is either obviously flawed or requiring actual creative input is not contributing to the thread in any way, just like if I went into a thread in the vehicles area that shows a customised engine system and asks for any suggestions but instead I just wrote "I LIKE THE PAINT"

For threads that do just ask "do you like it/what do you think" etc it's fine, but if a thread is specifically made to serve a purpose then people not posting to that purpose are quite literally posting off-topic and therefore pointlessly
You'd get harassed by the thread creator or members of the thread who read the fine print. It's still contributing whether or not they write out a critique. It would have a point and would still be on-topic, you of all people should know the meanings of the two.

Anything is on-topic if there is any part of the post which relates to the topic, therefore if a picture of a car with its bonnet open shows paint colour then it is on-topic, because it is referencing something within the topic. As for point, well, anything that contributes whether negatively ("the engine sucks") or positively ("the engine is amazing!") is a point.

[FlyingJesus]

But no-one's saying this should apply to ALL threads, only ones where criticism/assistance is specifically asked for. For the majority of threads this isn't the case as (like you say) people are often happy enough to just see that someone appreciates their work

[GommeInc]

But no-one's saying this should apply to ALL threads, only ones where criticism/assistance is specifically asked for. For the majority of threads this isn't the case as (like you say) people are often happy enough to just see that someone appreciates their work
Then the OP or members should ask the member who just said "That's amazing :D" to explain why they said that, to promote a discussion. Hardly difficult :P Better to promote discussion than to warn people for contributing to the forum, and upsetting one thread creator who is only out to benefit himself and be miserable by not asking members who say very little to explain their thoughts.

[FlyingJesus]

By that logic absolutely no posts should ever be edited for being pointless/not contributing to the topic and instead we should just ask nicely for people to elaborate on the off-chance that they will do so

[GommeInc]

By that logic absolutely no posts should ever be edited for being pointless/not contributing to the topic and instead we should just ask nicely for people to elaborate on the off-chance that they will do so
Depends if you follow the actual meaning of pointless and off-topic posting, or this weird definition that seems to be circulating around. In most of the forums, like the debate forum or current affairs, short answers which really are biting at the heels of meaningful, on-topic posts will still be edited, but for threads where you're sharing something you have made or bought then it is to be expected that people will make short and sweet comments about how good something is. Take a compliment, rather than have them attacked by red writing.

[FlyingJesus]

There is absolutely no difference between writing a post in a debate thread that doesn't address the debate question, writing a post in tech help thread that doesn't give tech advice, and writing a post in a constructive criticism request thread that doesn't give any constructive criticism

[GommeInc]

There is absolutely no difference between writing a post in a debate thread that doesn't address the debate question, writing a post in tech help thread that doesn't give tech advice, and writing a post in a constructive criticism request thread that doesn't give any constructive criticism
There is, have you not used the forums? The debate forum rarely has one worded, short posts (mainly because people see the word "debate" and pick up on the purpose of the forum), and when people post in the tech forums asking for advice they tend to only include a wall of text asking for advice rather than a picture people can refer to, therefore you tend to always get helpful comments. Members aren't that brain dead, give them some credit :P

If you're posting an alt in the alterations forum, you're going to get quick comments about an alt you have made - it's still contributing to the forum and in some ways the alt, unless you're assuming the thread creator knows it is good? :P Again, take a compliment and ask if you really must know what they think, from my experience people tend to reply back, or you can send them a VM (which I have done on occasion). You're under-rating the members here to quite an extreme :P

[FlyingJesus]

I don't think you understand the notion of some threads having specific topics and purposes. Posts that do not fulfill those are pointless posts, regardless of how nice they're being

[Samantha]

Got a comment on a new thread and they said 'I like the way you shaded the pants' but I haven't shaded them? Is that pointless considering theyre white and the threadtitle clearly says its a chibi not an alt. I don't think cc should be applied to all graphics posts and threads and u don't think we were implying that as said earlier if we ask for cc then we should expect it to an extent. Yrs we could reply and ask why they liked it but they could read the op clearly asking for cc instead. I just got another 'it's cute' too idm but can't people use a different word.

[Zelda]

Tbh there has to be some sort of sense with what people are complaining about with moderation. You can't just complain about over moderation with pointless posting then about under moderation with pointless posting, its simple contradiction.

Tbh bumping shouldn't be pointless really, it aids a discussion, though would be nice if they could put something in tbh not just "bump". Tbh there is not enough threads in some sections as it is that you feel you can post on without being accused of post count or bumping and have a ton of people -rep you, so keeping threads open by allowing bumping will surely just aid level of conversation?

[Samantha]

Jan the bump thread another one. However there's a difference in forums where by short answers would be allowed in over threads but not in some.

[GommeInc]

I don't think you understand the notion of some threads having specific topics and purposes. Posts that do not fulfill those are pointless posts, regardless of how nice they're being
I don't think you know what pointless means and are therefore confused with what a pointless post is. Besides, if you bothered reading my posts you would know that I do know threads have specific purposes, but for threads like the ones mentioned by the OP it would be impossible to stop members from posting short answers. They do no harm at all, and to tell the forum to create such an archaic rule would be counter-productive and put members off from posting, especially when comments that compliment something you have bought or created are not deconstructive or rude. Is a post saying "That's an amazing alt!" really that harmful? At least it has been recognised, but for some reason compliments and positive criticisms must really anger some people :rolleyes:

[FlyingJesus]

How do you not get this? It's extremely simple. If someone asks for a specific type of answer and someone makes a different type of answer, that is pointless. There's no actual "harm" done in announcing that you love cucumbers in a thread that asks which football team you support but it's still pointless because it is not what the thread is asking for

[dbgtz]

None of those posts were pointless :/ They were all in context and served a purpose - he liked the alts. You're suggesting that members should be more descriptive when making posts, and suggesting all members should be strong, art critics :P

It doesn't take much effort to say why. Admittedly, I have previously pushed for proper constructive criticism but that was unrealistic. This is why I am proposing the change of rule ultimately, but I was just bringing to attention how much the same user just spams virtually the same comments.

Also can I ask how it took 6 days since the posting of bigger avatars in feedback and then it being adjusted yet I have been pushing for the tight graphics feedback rules for those who want real feedback for 10 days and for tighter graphics rules generally for years (with me not being the only one). Infact I believe it began when Favouritism was fired/quit however long ago that was.

How hard is it to change a rule to the perfect compromise?

[Kyle]

If somebody posts their art/photography on habboxforum it isn't likely that they're going to be expecting proper criticism. If they ask for it specifically then yes, posts should probably include it, but what harm does it do if they don't? the OP's picture is still being appreciated and I'm sure that still means a lot to them.

[dbgtz]

Because it takes the piss when all you get is useless crap. I see how some people wouldn't mind it, but I personally do not appreciate it hence why I'm trying to push CC only on request.

[FlyingJesus]

If they ask for it specifically then yes, posts should probably include it

Which is all that anyone's asking for


but what harm does it do if they don't? the OP's picture is still being appreciated and I'm sure that still means a lot to them.

omg no OBVIOUSLY IT DOESN'T if they're wanting a rule change. If someone made a thread asking people to help look for any flaws in a piece of coding and I just put "nice words" I doubt they would appreciate it

[GommeInc]

How do you not get this? It's extremely simple. If someone asks for a specific type of answer and someone makes a different type of answer, that is pointless. There's no actual "harm" done in announcing that you love cucumbers in a thread that asks which football team you support but it's still pointless because it is not what the thread is asking for
To them maybe, but to everyone else it isn't pointless. It still has a point in the grand scheme of things - it contributes and has a purpose, hence it has a point. Also, your example "cucumbers in a football thread" is NOT the same as "your alt is good" in an alt thread, because the topic (hence on-topic) is that it's a comment about the alt. Cucumbers in a football thread, especially a small statement like "I like cucumbers" is pointless, because it serves no purpose.

Posting complimentary, kind remarks about an alt or work you've done on a car is harmless, it isn't pointless and it isn't off-topic. If anything it's useless for the person asking for CC. But like I said, all you have to do is ask or wait until someone does give CC. All threads at least have someone give CC, and when someone doesn't you usually get members saying "He wants more than just that, READ!" It's OTT to make a rule which is just too strict to enforce, and will not solve the problem - some members like to be kind and leave comments, while others write essays which depict their thoughts :P If someone does post a "useless" comment, let the OP or other members in the thread self-moderate the posts, or simply let it go because it's not worth a moderator's time to warn a member, edit their posts or message them. Besides, if you do not get the posts you desire - simply post in the thread to give it the attention you need. It's better people post to keep a thread afloat than let it die.

[JerseySafety]

'sierk is going in or w.e' that is the most pointless post ever. seriously.

[beth]

could we not just have the option to add a tag to the thread saying (C&C) or just leave it blank if you don't mind.

[dbgtz]

could we not just have the option to add a tag to the thread saying (C&C) or just leave it blank if you don't mind.

That's what the rule proposal is all about, but the staff seemed to have just ignored it.
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=743861

[Samantha]

It's suck a pity that rules that should be enforced in graphics isn't. Don't look at the positive CC, look at the negative one and actually follow through when there's a rule for it.

The other day I reported two posts because they offered no CC but they were negative comments. The rules clearly state that you can't just say 'bad' without giving way to improve. I brought this up with Jordan; and he informed me he'd look later but he didn't think there was a rule against it so knowledge is needed there, now he also said that it was unfair that negative posts had to give CC whereas positive did not. He told me he'd inform scott; and see if the rule can be changed somehow, now we will be waiting a long time for that but I think it's time graphics get sorted out because people say 'you can't make people post CC' fully agree, but when there is an actual rule against it follow it!

[scott]

Jordan was correct about the fact that myself and Brandon were discussing it, we think that adding "CC" tags into the graphics forum and then if a member uses them cc must be given in the thread, but if a member doesn't use the cc tags then they don't. That way that if people want a proper critique on their graphics work they can but if they don't then they can still post it would be a good idea . yes/no?

[Samantha]

What about people who like cc but don't yearn for it like me? I think it might put people off with the tags rather than it would if they saw it in a thread.

I just think it would be better if the OP asked for cc as some may even forget to put it on. However, not saying I'm against the idea at all, you could trial it? :P

[scott]

It wouldn't really be any different to adding 'i want cc only pls' to having a tag/prefix on it :p If we did introduce it then there would be a thread stuck in the graphics forum about it so people knew about it.

[Samantha]

Well you could do that, might be better and might even contribute to posting too :).

[beth]

Jordan was correct about the fact that myself and Brandon were discussing it, we think that adding "CC" tags into the graphics forum and then if a member uses them cc must be given in the thread, but if a member doesn't use the cc tags then they don't. That way that if people want a proper critique on their graphics work they can but if they don't then they can still post it would be a good idea . yes/no?

think this is a fantastic idea and should be implemented.


What about people who like cc but don't yearn for it like me? I think it might put people off with the tags rather than it would if they saw it in a thread.

I just think it would be better if the OP asked for cc as some may even forget to put it on. However, not saying I'm against the idea at all, you could trial it? :P

you kinda gotta make up yr mind whether you mind or not sam :P if you do mind then use the tags and if not, then don't.

[Samantha]

think this is a fantastic idea and should be implemented.



you kinda gotta make up yr mind whether you mind or not sam :P if you do mind then use the tags and if not, then don't.

Fineeee I don't mind it on Chibis as I get CC off Georgia anyway. I'll mind it on pixel stuff instead ;) better for you bethie?

[beth]

Fineeee I don't mind it on Chibis as I get CC off Georgia anyway. I'll mind it on pixel stuff instead ;) better for you bethie?

am just saying you can't ask for a solution, then be presented for one and still look for middle ground.

[Kyle]

if i post a piece i like to get cc but i wouldn't want to restrict people to just posting cc or not. i guess the tag thing works but if people dont see it on the thread then maybe they would avoid posting any?

[Samantha]

Are the ripping rules going to be alted scott; seeing as the recent ones got closed 'until further notice' even with solid proof they had been ripped. Or are they staying as they are?

---------- Post added 26-04-2012 at 05:01 PM ----------

Looking at the threads again I think there needs to be a revamp in the gfx rules again as although someone was breaking the rules, some who commented did too yet they didn't get warned (and I don't think they will be) just wondering what the rules are atm :p.

[FlyingJesus]

Jordan was correct about the fact that myself and Brandon were discussing it, we think that adding "CC" tags into the graphics forum and then if a member uses them cc must be given in the thread, but if a member doesn't use the cc tags then they don't. That way that if people want a proper critique on their graphics work they can but if they don't then they can still post it would be a good idea . yes/no?

Sounds like exactly what's needed yes, and having a tag on the threads makes it less open to ambiguity than if people just write in the post that they'd like CC. Good call


if i post a piece i like to get cc but i wouldn't want to restrict people to just posting cc or not. i guess the tag thing works but if people dont see it on the thread then maybe they would avoid posting any?

I'd like to think that people who give CC on graphic work do so because they have a genuine interest in it and enjoy seeing the progress of people's work, so if they see a piece that doesn't have the CC tag but still think they can provide some I reckon they'll do so rather than just writing "yeah it's ok" and forgetting about its existence :P