So apparently referring to someone as a cartoon character is rude...

[dbgtz]

My posts on the PAPOY which says someone looks like a cartoon character has been deemed rude therefore removed. How is it more rude then saying someone looks like a real person? I never implied anything rude and there had been no reference of her and that character and I never said anything ill of that character, I just said that it looks like the person.

Explain?

[David]

can't say i agree with it being removed

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh1afkO5i11qe9yqr.jpg

[Kyle]

it even says in the rules that it is okay;


1B) You may post pictures of famous people, but only in reference to another picture (for example: "Oh, I think you look like Johnny Depp [picture here]"), if your post is found pointless and nothing to do with anything in this thread; itWILL be removed. (Same goes for random google images).

@skynus u ******

[wixard]

omg I posted Edward scissor hands in reply to toms pic and got a warning, I demand it be removed

[Tom]

Well, the post was reported and obviously has to be acted on. I wouldn't have thought it's offensive either - but if the user takes it rudely it should be removed. That's how it goes unfortunately! :(

[Samantha]

Well, the post was reported and obviously has to be acted on. I wouldn't have thought it's offensive either - but if the user takes it rudely it should be removed. That's how it goes unfortunately! :(

No you should use your own common sense. If you don't find it rude then the person reporting was wrong, did you think of that?

I didn't find it rude in the slightest and I don't think Cerys did either :S.

Recently though many rules aren't even being stuck to so it's probably them what are flawed.

5555 post yay.

[wixard]

what do i do then
who gave me my warning, i want it removed

[Tom]

No you should use your own common sense. If you don't find it rude then the person reporting was wrong, did you think of that?

I didn't find it rude in the slightest and I don't think Cerys did either :S.

Recently though many rules aren't even being stuck to so it's probably them what are flawed.

Well, when a super moderator/administrator speaks to you on MSN telling you to deal with a post because it's been reported you do it. It's how it goes. If you have a problem with something that's been edited there's a support forum and if I get asked to remove it I'll gladly do it. :P

[Kyle]

you don't have to act on every report surely. a lot of posts are poitnlessly reported and if the post reporter simply misconstrued the meaning of the post (comparing somebody to a cartoon character is not really rude) then you should have just left it as it was! noob

[wixard]

hahaha whats funny is i said tom looked like edward scissor hands
johnny depp
johnny depp is even used IN THE EXAMPLE

does nobody care about me

[Maatt.]

Your MOD's... not Korea.. stop taking things too far....
Do your job, and use common sense.

Its obvious the users were not being serious and meaningly going.


OMG YOU LOOK LIKE SHREK PAHAHAHA LOSER...

was it? They were just stating who looked like who. seriously.

[Tom]

hahaha whats funny is i said tom looked like edward scissor hands
johnny depp
johnny depp is even used IN THE EXAMPLE

does nobody care about me



Speak to a super moderator/administrator/post it in the support forum ;) It'll be removed (or should be).

[Richie]

Here lads be realistic, if someone quoted my picture and posted a picture of this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/91/Peg-Leg_Pete.png/235px-Peg-Leg_Pete.png). I'd be offended. She clearly doesn't like mona the vampire :P

[Samantha]

It can't be that rude to say it took near enough 24 hours for someone to think it was rude thus get it removed. Seriously, deal with more serious things rather than that.

I reported someone on 26th April for having multiple accounts and nothing got done, maybe sort that out instead?

[Richie]

At the end of the day if she thinks people are taking the piss and is offended it would make sense to remove it

---------- Post added 03-05-2012 at 07:11 PM ----------


It can't be that rude to say it took near enough 24 hours for someone to think it was rude thus get it removed. Seriously, deal with more serious things rather than that.

I reported someone on 26th April for having multiple accounts and nothing got done, maybe sort that out instead?


Sam I'm not being a **** but if i quoted a pic of you with this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8e/Volvic.jpg


would you be offended?

[Samantha]

At the end of the day if she thinks people are taking the piss and is offended it would make sense to remove it

---------- Post added 03-05-2012 at 07:11 PM ----------




Sam I'm not being a **** but if i quoted a pic of you with this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8e/Volvic.jpg


would you be offended?

Yeah I would, I'll agree with you there Richie :P.

[Richie]

Yeah I would, I'll agree with you there Richie :P.

Don't get me banned :( it was just an example. In all seriousness though if she's offended she's entitled to report it and get it removed!!!

[Samantha]

Don't get me banned :( it was just an example. In all seriousness though if she's offended she's entitled to report it and get it removed!!!

If she is offended then so be it I just didn't think she was due to her reply :P.

[Richie]

If she is offended then so be it I just didn't think she was due to her reply :P.

that's the thing though you can't exactly draw a line. I have reported things in the past and even though they know it's jokes they have to remove it since i said I'm offended. Strangely enough the thing I'm talking about was only a week ago or something and the person got warned even though it was obvious it wasn't making me teary eyed

[Jordan]

It can't be that rude to say it took near enough 24 hours for someone to think it was rude thus get it removed. Seriously, deal with more serious things rather than that.

I reported someone on 26th April for having multiple accounts and nothing got done, maybe sort that out instead?


Sorry since when do you tell me or Martin to do something? How do you know something has been done? And if nothing has then there wasn't a problem in the first place.

I haven't looked at it the post that's causing a problem but I will soon when I've finished doing what I need to do.

[Kyle]

jordan you are so rude and snappy lately

[Richie]

jordan you are so rude and snappy lately


man period from the bum


nice pics guys


edit:
wrong thread lalala I DISAGREE WITH YOU ALL SHE DESERVED TO GET IT REMOVED!

[Samantha]

Sorry since when do you tell me or Martin to do something? How do you know something has been done? And if nothing has then there wasn't a problem in the first place.

I haven't looked at it the post that's causing a problem but I will soon when I've finished doing what I need to do.

When people have multiple accounts one tends to get banned, that's the way it works.

[dbgtz]

Well, when a super moderator/administrator speaks to you on MSN telling you to deal with a post because it's been reported you do it. It's how it goes. If you have a problem with something that's been edited there's a support forum and if I get asked to remove it I'll gladly do it. :P

This post insults my intelligence, I demand it to be removed.

Seriously though, it shouldn't have been removed if there is no reason for it to have been insulting and unless someone can say how it was insulting the removal should be revoked.


Here lads be realistic, if someone quoted my picture and posted a picture of this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/91/Peg-Leg_Pete.png/235px-Peg-Leg_Pete.png). I'd be offended. She clearly doesn't like mona the vampire :P

Yeah but saying that she looked like Mona wasn't really an insult at all. Tell me how it was.

[Jordan]

When people have multiple accounts one tends to get banned, that's the way it works.

Correct. But if that previous account is banned then they are entitled to create another if they are not on the Autoban list.

[Samantha]

Correct. But if that previous account is banned then they are entitled to create another if they are not on the Autoban list.

They weren't banned and still aren't banned on either account so it's still breaking the rules.

[Tom]

This post insults my intelligence, I demand it to be removed.

Seriously though, it shouldn't have been removed if there is no reason for it to have been insulting and unless someone can say how it was insulting the removal should be revoked.

Not going to lie, sometimes I feel like what I'm reading isn't offensive, but if the user reports it then we have to remove it as it's the actual user getting offended. Now, I can't really say that Cerys was the one whom reported it, because I don't know, but as soon as I can get in contact with someone who does know I'll double check.

[dbgtz]

Correct. But if that previous account is banned then they are entitled to create another if they are not on the Autoban list.

This post is off topic therefore you should be permanently banned.


Not going to lie, sometimes I feel like what I'm reading isn't offensive, but if the user reports it then we have to remove it as it's the actual user getting offended. Now, I can't really say that Cerys was the one whom reported it, because I don't know, but as soon as I can get in contact with someone who does know I'll double check.

Alright.

It wasn't her who reported it (if she was telling the truth) therefore surely the report is invalid.

[Jordan]

They weren't banned and still aren't banned on either account so it's still breaking the rules.


Oh you are on about him. I have to wait for a reply, not just an instant ban. It's the way it works.

[Samantha]

Oh you are on about him. I have to wait for a reply, not just an instant ban. It's the way it works.

That explains why spam bots get banned straight away and others don't. Thanks.

[Stephen]

mona is ******* awesome and so is her winged pussycat

It's obvious that the person who reported it is jealous cos she knows that she doesn't really look beautiful like mona

[Jordan]

That explains why spam bots get banned straight away and others don't. Thanks.

I don't see how you can relate these two together? Spam bots are banned straight away because they are spam bots. People with multiple accounts may have one from a few years ago and forget it and do not know it's against the rules. They may decide after realising that they want to keep their newer one or revert back to their old one.

[Samantha]

I don't see how you can relate these two together? Spam bots are banned straight away because they are spam bots. People with multiple accounts may have one from a few years ago and forget it and do not know it's against the rules. They may decide after realising that they want to keep their newer one or revert back to their old one.

They are both about bans, in previous cases whereby I gave proof that they were the same person they got banned within say 48 hours? In this case it's been over a week and again you have proof of it. Why is it taking this long now? Aren't people looking into it or aren't people active enough or something? I suggest not getting snappy with me either as it's a feedback thread and I resolved something, you just fired it back up again.

In reply to Skynus; so if I said Jordan's post was offensive and I reported it, would it have to be dealt with as it was aimed at me? Just using Jordan as an example here so I'm just wondering.

[Tom]

They are both about bans, in previous cases whereby I gave proof that they were the same person they got banned within say 48 hours? In this case it's been over a week and again you have proof of it. Why is it taking this long now? Aren't people looking into it or aren't people active enough or something? I suggest not getting snappy with me either as it's a feedback thread and I resolved something, you just fired it back up again.

In reply to Skynus; so if I said Jordan's post was offensive and I reported it, would it have to be dealt with as it was aimed at me? Just using Jordan as an example here so I'm just wondering.

If you took offence to a post and reported it then yeah, I suppose it works that way. Well in my eyes it does and always has anyway (if it doesn't it should).

[Samantha]

If you took offence to a post and reported it then yeah, I suppose it works that way. Well in my eyes it does and always has anyway (if it doesn't it should).

Ok thank you :). Not saying I was offended by his post at all, I just took that example as I was replying to him!

[Jordan]

They are both about bans, in previous cases whereby I gave proof that they were the same person they got banned within say 48 hours? In this case it's been over a week and again you have proof of it. Why is it taking this long now? Aren't people looking into it or aren't people active enough or something? I suggest not getting snappy with me either as it's a feedback thread and I resolved something, you just fired it back up again.

In reply to @Skynus (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=66909); so if I said Jordan's post was offensive and I reported it, would it have to be dealt with as it was aimed at me? Just using Jordan as an example here so I'm just wondering.


Both about bans but one is a bot and one is an actual person. You don't just ban another account because it's a multiple, you find out why, and in some cases they have forgot their previous account/password and used it to recover or just forgot of an older one altogether. It varies the time it takes for it to be sorted, and in this case the user hasn't read the PM yet so I'm not allowed to do anything.

[Kyle]

No, it shouldn't work that way. People will just pretend that they find something offensive to get somebody in trouble.

[Stephen]

isnt it private information to tell everyone that the user reported the post

cos now everyone is gonna hate cerys even more for reporting something that isnt even rude

[Samantha]

Both about bans but one is a bot and one is an actual person. You don't just ban another account because it's a multiple, you find out why, and in some cases they have forgot their previous account/password and used it to recover or just forgot of an older one altogether. It varies the time it takes for it to be sorted, and in this case the user hasn't read the PM yet so I'm not allowed to do anything.

Then it hasn't always worked like that. Never knew that rule changed tbh but ok.

[Chris]

isnt it private information to tell everyone that the user reported the post

cos now everyone is gonna hate cerys even more for reporting something that isnt even rude

No name was specified as to who reported it. :P


Then it hasn't always worked like that. Never knew that rule changed tbh but ok.

It's always worked like that, or at least it has for the past year anyway.

[Zelda]

Just read through this, tom you make it seem like the moderator department is some bloody feudal system here, + i don't quite get why if it would only be offensive to person its' directed at someone else should be allowed to get it removed who it werent aimed at, as it's not offensive to them and is just rediculous, especially considering the rules of the thread clearly say you are allowed to say someone looks like someone, then post a pic of it.

+ Jordan urm yes sam is allowed tosuggest to you that something might need doing surely if its' true? Anyone could tell you oh this needs doing, if you heed what is said is another matter but people aren't peasants and they shouldn't be treated as if, "Only i decide what needs doing, no-one can suggest things to me".

[Richie]

Yeah but saying that she looked like Mona wasn't really an insult at all. Tell me how it was.

are me and you looking at the same picture? because mona looks like she fell off a motorbike lost half a nose a bit of an ear then went under the knife for several hours so doctors could try restore her face to some human resemblance. Either way if she is offended by it you offended her so you get warned. Simples

[Jordan]

Then it hasn't always worked like that. Never knew that rule changed tbh.

Well really it's not a rule a normal member needs to know but now you understand the rule we follow :P
Stephen; it's not private because she didn't report it. No ones confirmed she did it, people just assumed! :P

[Chippiewill]

That explains why spam bots get banned straight away and others don't. Thanks.
Those situations aren't analogous, spam bots are fairly obviously abusing the forum and are not at any point going to stop. There's no point banning long term members off the bat, may as well open a dialogue first.

[Samantha]

Chris; Jordan; Ok I don't think it's happened for the past year, well at least not in some cases but I suppose that could have been for other reasons too. Thanks again.

[Stephen]

i swear skynus edited that last bit into his post

[dbgtz]

are me and you looking at the same picture? because mona looks like she fell off a motorbike lost half a nose a bit of an ear then went under the knife for several hours so doctors could try restore her face to some human resemblance. Either way if she is offended by it you offended her so you get warned. Simples

Well according to her she didn't even report it.

Either way it's a cartoon about a person with an overactive imagination and should not and was never implied as an insult therefore it was not.

[xxMATTGxx]

If she didn't report it then I don't see an issue with the actual content unless it was very clear that it was rude in the first place.

[The Don]

Just because someone takes offence to something doesn't mean it is actually offensive, there is a huge differene. Has all common sense been lost?

[xxMATTGxx]

Just because someone takes offence to something doesn't mean it is actually offensive, there is a huge differene. Has all common sense been lost?

But that's where the problems start, just because you may not find it offensive -That doesn't mean the user can't be offended by whatever has been said. Then there is the problem of people saying that they have been offended by such posts just for the sake of getting them into trouble.

So what do you draw the line?

[The Don]

But that's where the problems start, just because you may not find it offensive -That doesn't mean the user can't be offended by whatever has been said. Then there is the problem of people saying that they have been offended by such posts just for the sake of getting them into trouble.

It is generally pretty easy to tell if something is offensive unless its done in a sly way which wouldn't be obvious to someone who doesn't understand the connotations of it. It's common sense that the picture in this instance was in jest and not insulting. If he had posted a picture of a half dead dog or clinically obese person then I would understand.

[xxMATTGxx]

It is generally pretty easy to tell if something is offensive unless its done in a sly way which wouldn't be obvious to someone who doesn't understand the connotations of it. It's common sense that the picture in this instance was in jest and not insulting. If he had posted a picture of a half dead dog or clinically obese person then I would understand.

I'm not saying this cartoon picture was offensive, would more imply to other posts that have been done over the years. If the user who it was aimed at didn't report it then it should of probably been left alone in terms of this case.

If they did report it then it should probably be up to the Moderators to decide if it is actually offensive or not. Should only probably deal with it if it is very clear that it was aimed to offend people.

[dbgtz]

There is no evidence I ever targetted her thus the removal is invalid.

[GommeInc]

You could of just sent the user who was offended a PM to take it up with the member who posted the Mona the Vampire picture and you (the moderator) act like the middle man relaying the messages to each user. It should be about intent, and you should enforce the fact that the user did not intend to offend. By not doing so, you've made the offended party look foolish and, well, pathetic really for getting upset for what is no reason at all.


I'm not saying this cartoon picture was offensive, would more imply to other posts that have been done over the years. If the user who it was aimed at didn't report it then it should of probably been left alone in terms of this case.

If they did report it then it should probably be up to the Moderators to decide if it is actually offensive or not. Should only probably deal with it if it is very clear that it was aimed to offend people.
Perhaps you could get in contact with both who were involved? You could get their stories together and tell the offended member that the accused user did not mean to offend and that there is no material in the post that could be considered offensive. Then reinstate the "offending" post and go about your daily business. It seems weird that a seemingly harmless and private event has been drawn out for so long in feedback :P

[dbgtz]

So when is my post being put back?

[Cerys]

Right, only just noticed this thread.
I had no clue who this 'Mona' was, so in no was could I find it offensive.
I am pretty sure I didn't report it, as there was no need to.

As said above, if dbgtz (sorry, don't know your name) posted someting like a picture of someone who was clinically obese, then of course it would be offensive, but this however, wasn't.

I believe that he posted it for a joke, just to get some laughs. Which I was fine with.
If he did post it as an insult, I still don't care! Just view it as a joke and everythings fine.

To be fair, his post should be put back in the thread, but being the post quite far back in the thread maybe there's no point to put it back in, now.
dbgtz; Skynus;

[Jordan]

So when is my post being put back?

When you PM Scott

[Stephen]

Right, only just noticed this thread.
I had no clue who this 'Mona' was, so in no was could I find it offensive.
I am pretty sure I didn't report it, as there was no need to.

As said above,if dbgtz (sorry, don't know your name) posted someting like a picture of someone who was clinically obese, then of course it would be offensive, but this however, wasn't.

I believe that he posted it for a joke, just to get some laughs. Which I was fine with.
If he did post it as an insult, I still don't care! Just view it as a joke and everythings fine.

To be fair, his post should be put back in the thread, but being the post quite far back in the thread maybe there's no point to put it back in, now.
@dbgtz (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=28789); @Skynus (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=66909);

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/4534169860_eb58eb4fe0.jpg

Edited by Martin (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not make off topic/Pointless Posts.

[GirlNextDoor15]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/4534169860_eb58eb4fe0.jpg

omg so cuteeeee the eyes and the mouth awww this could be my child

Edited by Martin (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not make off topic/Pointless Posts.

[GoldenMerc]

I got the same for saying cerys mate looked like bugs bunny lol

[Stephen]

If I recall correctly you were taking the piss out of HER teeth

[jasey]

I really think the current moderation on this forum is awful. With few exceptions, I find the moderators to act like self-righteous sixteen-year-olds. I don't understand why they think they need to have such obsession with the most minor pseudo-rulebreaks when they are moderating a forum like this. This is not the parliament, this is a declining Habbo fansite forum. Do these moderators realise that they are creating plenty of their own work — perhaps on purpose — by being haughty and snippy? Honestly, when I read "who are you to tell Martin and I what to do" I nearly cringed. Who do you think you are? She was suggesting something in a fairly polite manner and you act like you have just been told to chop off your arm.

Really, this forum definitely needs moderation and there have been great moderators in the past and there isn't a total absence of good moderation currently. Rather, it seems as HxF has shrunk the pool of applicants has changed from people who want to help to people who want to feel powerful and have a cute userbar. Your job isn't to obsess over and micromanage every single post that you think may break a rule. Your job is to keep the forum in line and keep obvious rulebreaks off.

[Chippiewill]

I don't think the moderation has gotten worse or better - in years. I think the proportion of the userbase that's most vocal has been getting steadily older and been enjoying more and more liberties as years have gone by, meanwhile what these guys has forgotten is that whilst they don't rear their heads very often there are:

a) Hundreds of lurkers - No doubt of a younger more sensitive age
b) A younger user-base in the habbo section, who probably occasionally look around elsewhere.

The rules have to be setup to fit everyone, this is why swearing is not allowed (And I'm glad as it breeds an environment where everyone's constantly chucking swear words around for no reason) and it's why rules which seem strict for what you're using the forum for is not inappropriate for everyone.

And in fact the most horrifying thing of all is that in the cases where a moderator is at fault (It does happen, but lets not pretend it's happening more than it has before) people are just about refusing to use the pre-established system for reporting bad moderation/incorrect decisions or whatever (aka PM Scott, Brandon or make a thread in the support forum) and instead decide they need a feedback thread so they can slander volunteer moderators and complain about a broken system they refuse to use to the full extent.

[jasey]

I don't think the moderation has gotten worse or better - in years. I think the proportion of the userbase that's most vocal has been getting steadily older and been enjoying more and more liberties as years have gone by, meanwhile what these guys has forgotten is that whilst they don't rear their heads very often there are:

a) Hundreds of lurkers - No doubt of a younger more sensitive age
b) A younger user-base in the habbo section, who probably occasionally look around elsewhere.

The rules have to be setup to fit everyone, this is why swearing is not allowed (And I'm glad as it breeds an environment where everyone's constantly chucking swear words around for no reason) and it's why rules which seem strict for what you're using the forum for is not inappropriate for everyone.

And in fact the most horrifying thing of all is that in the cases where a moderator is at fault (It does happen, but lets not pretend it's happening more than it has before) people are just about refusing to use the pre-established system for reporting bad moderation/incorrect decisions or whatever (aka PM Scott, Brandon or make a thread in the support forum) and instead decide they need a feedback thread so they can slander volunteer moderators and complain about a broken system they refuse to use to the full extent.

You know, it's great that people are giving up their time to be 'volunteer moderators' but certainly you understand that this is quite a coveted position? HxF has never needed to beg anyone to step up and be a moderator — there has been fierce drama and competitive action in past decisions within the moderation department. The problem is that we cannot sugarcoat the fact that there are moderators who simply aren't doing a good job by saying 'Oh, you know, they are a volunteer! They give their time!' The fact is they are having quite a playdate as moderator on HxF and if they were so disconcerted with it they are free to resign. That is the whole point of being a volunteer, you know? You can leave whenever you want. There is no paycheque to lose. That being said, when you volunteer for something like this you need to do the job properly.

Let me put this in to perspective. I volunteered at an elderly care home for three years. I won't try to come across as some angel about it — I did it because school required volunteer activity. Over those three years, though, my great grandmother declined in health and entered a different care home and that is when it hit me how important volunteers can be to these people. If you are going to volunteer to do something, you'd better put your effort in to it. Volunteering isn't to make you look good, to say you did this to show how caring you are or to appease relationships. If I was to act at the care home like some moderators act on this forum I hope to goodness I would be sacked in quick time. There is a big difference between a care home and this forum but there is an astonishing common element. They are both places where lonely or secluded people have a social outlet.

Really, I don't think that every single thing that moderators do here is terrible. There are great acts of moderation and there have been great moderators over the years but I don't agree that things aren't getting worse. Things are definitely worse now. If what you say is true - that users are getting older and more vocal - then praise be to that. I would much rather be on a forum where issues are addressed by people who can communicate than a forum where the users are completely in their preteens and unable to hold an argument with a more senior moderator. I am not sure if you realise just how busy Scott and Brandon are but I would rather that the moderators simply stop making so many grave mistakes as opposed to leaving users to contact management to complain. What kind of reflection is it on a forum when users are forced to complain about the people who are supposed to keep the forum in line on a weekly basis? Just look at how many times incompetency in the moderation department has been brought up in the Feedback section over the past while.

I agree with you on different things. I do agree that it is a broken system. No disrespect meant, but the people to fix the broken system aren't strictly the management team. Matt, Scott and Brandon are not much different than many people on this fourm. None of them have special years of training in social policy or human resources. They are young adults just like many of the users on this forum and I believe the best fix would be decided by people who are dedicated to the betterment of the forum. Why do you think Habbo uses Uservoice? They are a professional, giant company. They have education, intelligence and talent under their wings working for them every day. Why do they need a thirteen year old to give them ideas? It is simple. Moderation, management and leaders are wonderful and necessary but they can't give the answer to everything. Action has to be taken by a greater group.

[Chippiewill]

You know, it's great that people are giving up their time to be 'volunteer moderators' but certainly you understand that this is quite a coveted position? HxF has never needed to beg anyone to step up and be a moderator — there has been fierce drama and competitive action in past decisions within the moderation department. The problem is that we cannot sugarcoat the fact that there are moderators who simply aren't doing a good job by saying 'Oh, you know, they are a volunteer! They give their time!' The fact is they are having quite a playdate as moderator on HxF and if they were so disconcerted with it they are free to resign. That is the whole point of being a volunteer, you know? You can leave whenever you want. There is no paycheque to lose. That being said, when you volunteer for something like this you need to do the job properly.

Let me put this in to perspective. I volunteered at an elderly care home for three years. I won't try to come across as some angel about it — I did it because school required volunteer activity. Over those three years, though, my great grandmother declined in health and entered a different care home and that is when it hit me how important volunteers can be to these people. If you are going to volunteer to do something, you'd better put your effort in to it. Volunteering isn't to make you look good, to say you did this to show how caring you are or to appease relationships. If I was to act at the care home like some moderators act on this forum I hope to goodness I would be sacked in quick time. There is a big difference between a care home and this forum but there is an astonishing common element. They are both places where lonely or secluded people have a social outlet.
Not sure why you think you needed to write a two paragraph essay on a three word comment, I did not imply that it was not important for moderators to do their job. What I am very seriously against is the abuse and slander that they have been publicly taking in recent weeks, e.g. chris. which is completely unecessary. You have a problem with a specific moderator take it to the complaints forum, you have a problem with policy, PM Scott then PM Matt.


Really, I don't think that every single thing that moderators do here is terrible. There are great acts of moderation and there have been great moderators over the years but I don't agree that things aren't getting worse. Things are definitely worse now.
I'm not exactly sure how you get to say there have been great moderators over the years as an account of age 4 months.


If what you say is true - that users are getting older and more vocal - then praise be to that. I would much rather be on a forum where issues are addressed by people who can communicate than a forum where the users are completely in their preteens and unable to hold an argument with a more senior moderator. I think you misunderstood what I meant by vocal, vocal means the only people talking in the feedback section. All of the other users, the users you're ignoring and haven't noticed are sitting in the habbo section, either lurking or making very occasional posts. They're there and we need them for the forum to survive. And as far as I'm concerned they are more important to the long-term survival of the forum than the oldies. This isn't even a pre-teen issue, this is an issue with the fact that the vocal forum demographic is now 16-22 Years old where the habbo demographic is 12-17. It's not compatible.


I am not sure if you realise just how busy Scott and Brandon are but I would rather that the moderators simply stop making so many grave mistakes as opposed to leaving users to contact management to complain. What kind of reflection is it on a forum when users are forced to complain about the people who are supposed to keep the forum in line on a weekly basis? Just look at how many times incompetency in the moderation department has been brought up in the Feedback section over the past while.It's been brought up recently because people are in a moaning mood over moderators at the moment, things come in waves, so when people get warnings for stuff they disagree on but actually the moderator is marginally justified and they remember that feedback thread they see it as a reason to create another thread. Correlation does not prove causation. And I'm going to be honest about the "busy" issue because there isn't much to say about it, forum management do much less than they used to. Jamesy two years ago did everything that Scott does and still had enough time left over to do stuff like creating styles and coding them and be far more engaging on forum issues. I am however appreciative of the fact the Scott is a busy person outside of Habbox and I do not expect him to be on the same level, but if he does not have the time to be the forum manager which involves managing complaints and such then he shouldn't be doing it all. Moderation is just as good/bad as it was one/two/three years ago and arguably better than prior to that when you could receive infractions for double posts.


I agree with you on different things. I do agree that it is a broken system. No disrespect meant, but the people to fix the broken system aren't strictly the management team. Matt, Scott and Brandon are not much different than many people on this fourm. None of them have special years of training in social policy or human resources. They are young adults just like many of the users on this forum and I believe the best fix would be decided by people who are dedicated to the betterment of the forum. People always forget that the people who reply in feedback threads are dedicated to the betterment of their corner of the forum, not the whole forum. You cannot go by the people in this thread for a representative selection of the entire forum demographic.


Why do you think Habbo uses Uservoice? They are a professional, giant company. They have education, intelligence and talent under their wings working for them every day. Why do they need a thirteen year old to give them ideas? It is simple. Moderation, management and leaders are wonderful and necessary but they can't give the answer to everything. Action has to be taken by a greater group.They use uservoice because they want to pretend they care because if the consumers think they care then the consumers will buy more furniture, uservoice ideas are not exactly implemented often.

[GommeInc]

^ To add on to what you have said jasey, I wouldn't say the moderators are to blame and are at the front of the problems - I think management make it difficult for them, because there does seem to be a lack of "management" going on. Addressed in one other thread was the fact that there is no actual Forum 'Manager', and decisions have to be made at a much higher level by people who either do not know about the forum demographic (blame the older, active members - care about the inactive, non-existent, younger, newer members).

A few months ago the in-famous quote: "We want mature discussions" comes to mind. What they actually mean by this is "restricted/formal" conversation. When people come online they want to escape the real world and all it's formalities, and for some reason Habbox has always hindered itself by not taking full control of the idea that maybe people do not want to be serious. It's not just a moderation problem, but a problem with the entire website - from a management level downwards. It wouldn't surprise me if it is a problem with the co-owners, who are not present the majority of the time, because when Jin is online (sierk apparently has zilch to do with Habbox) he seems to mention this really difficult to work around philosophy that Habbox must be a place for serious, mature discussions - when maturity could mean anything. The current approach seems to be to avoid common sense, where the forum atmosphere is made negative by odd decisions which go against how people naturally act. It's been said for years that the word "context" means nothing on here, and people could be made out to be offensive when they are most likely joking. It's sort of a "guilty until proven innocent" scenario.

Also, it too annoys me when you comment on the way things are run and you get the response: "and what makes you think you can tell us what to do?" When you get that, you know you've won the argument, because if they cannot give a better reason than that then they're clearly frustrated. Anyone can comment on the way things are run here. You're providing a service, and if it falls behind the expectations of the members of the forum then they are at liberty to comment.

[jasey]

I'm not exactly sure how you get to say there have been great moderators over the years as an account of age 4 months.

I can totally respect your opinion but I kind of lost track when you thought it was weird for me to put effort in to an answer and then continue to write a post longer than the one you said was too long. This is the part that really struck me, though. I don't think I am any more special than anyone nor do I discredit you for not knowing me personally but I do kind of respect you less for pulling a card like that. I have been using Habbox and Habbox Forum for a long time. This is a fairly new account as I took a long break around the time of the merge, and of course, I have had previous bans.

Don't let that lead you to think I don't watch what goes on here. Habbox was the first fansite community I ever got involved in and I have been part of the site whether by spirit, as staff or as a regular poster for the greater part of a decade. Cheers, really. In any case, I don't want to turn this thread in to a debate between you and I because I really do respect your views and understand what you are saying. Perhaps, though, you could next time be less one-track minded about how long you 'think' I have been here. I am old enough and have played a part of the community for enough time to earn my right to an opinion like I gave.




^ To add on to what you have said jasey, I wouldn't say the moderators are to blame and are at the front of the problems - I think management make it difficult for them, because there does seem to be a lack of "management" going on. Addressed in one other thread was the fact that there is no actual Forum 'Manager', and decisions have to be made at a much higher level by people who either do not know about the forum demographic (blame the older, active members - care about the inactive, non-existent, younger, newer members).

A few months ago the in-famous quote: "We want mature discussions" comes to mind. What they actually mean by this is "restricted/formal" conversation. When people come online they want to escape the real world and all it's formalities, and for some reason Habbox has always hindered itself by not taking full control of the idea that maybe people do not want to be serious. It's not just a moderation problem, but a problem with the entire website - from a management level downwards. It wouldn't surprise me if it is a problem with the co-owners, who are not present the majority of the time, because when Jin is online (sierk apparently has zilch to do with Habbox) he seems to mention this really difficult to work around philosophy that Habbox must be a place for serious, mature discussions - when maturity could mean anything. The current approach seems to be to avoid common sense, where the forum atmosphere is made negative by odd decisions which go against how people naturally act. It's been said for years that the word "context" means nothing on here, and people could be made out to be offensive when they are most likely joking. It's sort of a "guilty until proven innocent" scenario.

Also, it too annoys me when you comment on the way things are run and you get the response: "and what makes you think you can tell us what to do?" When you get that, you know you've won the argument, because if they cannot give a better reason than that then they're clearly frustrated. Anyone can comment on the way things are run here. You're providing a service, and if it falls behind the expectations of the members of the forum then they are at liberty to comment.

I don't know what to say, really! I know we don't always mesh on political issues in the Current Affairs area but I definitely agree with everything you are saying here. More than anything, I admire how you are able to get thoughts across and I think that you kind of put what I was trying to say in to something more understandable. I absolutely agree! I will be rating that post up.

[The Don]

Not sure why you think you needed to write a two paragraph essay on a three word comment, I did not imply that it was not important for moderators to do their job. What I am very seriously against is the abuse and slander that they have been publicly taking in recent weeks, e.g. chris. which is completely unecessary. You have a problem with a specific moderator take it to the complaints forum, you have a problem with policy, PM Scott then PM Matt.

Give me some examples of the ‘abuse’ and ‘slander’ which moderators have been publically taking. If you are referring to my posts in the welcome back martin thread/various other feedback threads then you really need to get a grip. If moderators can’t handle criticism then they shouldn’t be volunteering for a role in which they have to ‘police’ other users nor should they act hastily and modwarn the hell out of posts because a comment might potentially cause offence when in reality half the time very little offence is taken.



I'm not exactly sure how you get to say there have been great moderators over the years as an account of age 4 months.


I guess it’s completely out of the question that he may have used a different account in the past?



I think you misunderstood what I meant by vocal, vocal means the only people talking in the feedback section. All of the other users, the users you're ignoring and haven't noticed are sitting in the habbo section, either lurking or making very occasional posts. They're there and we need them for the forum to survive. And as far as I'm concerned they are more important to the long-term survival of the forum than the oldies. This isn't even a pre-teen issue, this is an issue with the fact that the vocal forum demographic is now 16-22 Years old where the habbo demographic is 12-17. It's not compatible.


I completely disagree, There are equally as many non-habbo related subforums which bring in a rather large percentage of the activity here at Habbox. Also the younger userbase are generally unreliable and don’t stick around which is why Habbox should focus on maintaining its older, dedicated users who consistently post as well as the various younger users.



It's been brought up recently because people are in a moaning mood over moderators at the moment, things come in waves, so when people get warnings for stuff they disagree on but actually the moderator is marginally justified and they remember that feedback thread they see it as a reason to create another thread. Correlation does not prove causation.

A wave of complaints would indicate that there are faults with the system as they are coming from separate users, it isn’t just an anomalous user making all these complaints, heck we even have one member who is arguing with a moderator’s decision when it was made to ‘protect’ them.

[nvrspk4]

It seems that users on this forum consistently demand professionalism while also demanding informality. Not that either request isn't legitimate, my point is just that while everyone complains that Habbox acts too much like a corporation they simultaneously treat the management like corporate management. They have come to enjoy the fact that they can hold management accountable. That in my opinion is what has always made Habbox stand apart. Yes, the moderation is more formal, but you also know that a dispute with a random person who's dating the manager is not going to get you blacklisted from the entire site. Obviously there are a few notable exceptions to that but they are minor compared to what happened at other sites, because professionalism has always been a key part of the Habbox culture.

I'm saying that there are two sides - one asking for professionalism and one asking for informality, but a lot of Habbox's success is built off of its professionalism and members have come to enjoy the benefits that accompany said professionalism while simultaneously complaining about the corporate-like feeling of management. I'm not saying that the current moderation issues are not a problem - I know nothing about them. All I am pointing out is that since this seems to be a discussion on the larger direction and philosophy of Habbox, it's important to remember that being slightly more formal is a large part of what put (and kept) Habbox on the map.

As far as the argument about whether Habbo is central to the site, Habbo is what gets us new members, the other forums are what keep them. Yes we have a large number of users who don't touch the Habbo forums but they came here either almost always because they were Habbo users first, or because they were brought on by a friend. This site has to continue to revolve around Habbo, otherwise what is its purpose? A general discussion board? Why join this one?

Also moderators absolutely do receive abuse, they always have and they always will. I agree its part of the job, but you have to acknowledge that it happens.

[jasey]

It seems that users on this forum consistently demand professionalism while also demanding informality. Not that either request isn't legitimate, my point is just that while everyone complains that Habbox acts too much like a corporation they simultaneously treat the management like corporate management.

I think that you make clear your opinion but we must regnogise the indisputable fact that management styles are not broken in to a dichotomy. You can be a moderator without being informal while also not being a micromanaging, frustrated office cubicle type. There is a balance. Of course, it would probably be impossible to get the balance directly in the middle because not only is this sort of thing not quantitative but people have different opinions on which side of the 'middle' the needle should fall. I can guarantee you, however, that the majority of the forum wants neither a slacker, hazy and incapable moderator nor a stick up your rear moderator.


They have come to enjoy the fact that they can hold management accountable. That in my opinion is what has always made Habbox stand apart. Yes, the moderation is more formal, but you also know that a dispute with a random person who's dating the manager is not going to get you blacklisted from the entire site. Obviously there are a few notable exceptions to that but they are minor compared to what happened at other sites, because professionalism has always been a key part of the Habbox culture.

I respect your view and I agree that Habbox — specifically HxF — was definitely a very professional site at various times throughout its history but it is not now. There is a noted increase in complaints about moderation and it doesn't take more than half a brain to realise that even management is having trouble with certain moderators. There is definitely a problem in the moderation department right now and that is because the system, as Chippiewill noted, is broken. The blame falls on no one. I have gotten to know the main actors of management on the forum just as many others have and I believe they work very hard. Really, very hard. You kind of express my sentiments exactly when you say that Habbox is known for its professionalism with notable exceptions. Let's call this past while a very notable exception.


I'm saying that there are two sides - one asking for professionalism and one asking for informality, but a lot of Habbox's success is built off of its professionalism and members have come to enjoy the benefits that accompany said professionalism while simultaneously complaining about the corporate-like feeling of management. I'm not saying that the current moderation issues are not a problem - I know nothing about them. All I am pointing out is that since this seems to be a discussion on the larger direction and philosophy of Habbox, it's important to remember that being slightly more formal is a large part of what put (and kept) Habbox on the map.

I definitely agree with you there. I know plenty of us have been on Habbo for a long time, perhaps since near the start, and have seen the slew of fansites that popped up. The biggest falls that I can think of when it comes to popular fansites (although I won't give names) have been because of a distinct lack of professionalism. That being said, it certainly can go the other way! There is such a thing as too much of a good thing and people are beginning to note it. Not all communcations online are very clear and when someone says that the moderators are 'too nitpicky and corporate', that doesn't mean that they believe they should be the polar opposite. They just want it toned down a bit. At one point following the release of the fast food exposé film 'Supersize Me', McDonalds was under pressure to be 'more healthy' because of the picture the hugely popular documentary painted of them. They didn't replace their whole menu with salads and carrot stick fries but rather offered a bit of a balance to be more in the middle. That applies here as well — almost no one is asking for one extreme to replace another.


As far as the argument about whether Habbo is central to the site, Habbo is what gets us new members, the other forums are what keep them. Yes we have a large number of users who don't touch the Habbo forums but they came here either almost always because they were Habbo users first, or because they were brought on by a friend. This site has to continue to revolve around Habbo, otherwise what is its purpose? A general discussion board? Why join this one?

I agree again wholeheartedly with your note that Habbo is what brings new users and the general discussion is what keeps them around. It is just fact, though, that HxF is no longer as popular as it once was. This forum was once viewable on lists of the top ranking forums on the entire internet. This has nothing to do with Habbox and more to do with the decline of fansites in Habbo culture and even Habbo itself. This is a huge change, though, and it can't be ignored. The majority of the posts on this forum are made by longtime users who post almost exclusively in general discussion areas. New members attracted by the premise of this being a Habbo forum rarely stick around or post much.

The shift for Habbo news has moved elsewhere. Everything is more open than it was four years ago. It isn't much of a secret when there is new furniture or something else planned because it is posted on every other bigger fansite at nearly the same time either as a release from something like Puhekupla or Habbo via email or Twitter itself. The biggest portion of Habbo content on this site is users responding to new features with tiny opinions on whether they like it or not. You'd be silly to not note that the more in-depth discussion, bonding and thinking goes on outside of the Habbo section.

I do not believe for one second that this should change from being a Habbo fansite because that is still a great and unique part of what makes HABbox exactly why most of us grew to love it. Instead, I believe a few policy changes are needed to recognise the fact that posts and membership have changed more quickly than rules and operations have.


Also moderators absolutely do receive abuse, they always have and they always will. I agree its part of the job, but you have to acknowledge that it happens.

You know, nearly everyone with an opinion is going to receive abuse at some point on this site. There are plenty of disagreements in opinion everywhere. In fact, there are regular users both past and present that can say that they have received more abuse on this site than any current moderator or even a few put together. No one is really denying that it happens but rather these people are denying that it is anything more critical than a non-moderator getting abused.

There are individuals I can name that have done their share to help the forum and (shockingly) received little abuse while still keeping thing just as 'in-line' as other moderators. I don't believe people should be offending in the first place but it does happen. Quite simply, there are users with moderator privileges right now that, frankly, need to be evaluated. If moderators feel they are being abused, I believe the same rules should apply to them as anyone else. They may have a different job on the forum but the fingers on their keyboards are quite similar to the fingers on everyone else's keyboards.