wow are you serious

[The Don]

Another user posted a completely off topic post and then preceded to state that they weren't posting off topic, I commented saying that their post was off topic, disagreeing with what they said. I come on to habbox and have a pm from martin telling me that I've broke a rule. Sorry but I was responding to his post where he had previously stated that it was on topic. In no way was I trying to moderate. If that's what I was trying to do I would have told him that he broke a rule, which I didn't, I just said it was off topic and then reported the post.

For a dying forum deaperately trying to survive, your moderators (martin) are going about their best way possible to lose membership and they've lost another member now, unless I receive an apology pm from martin.

Moderators should use common sense, was my response really a crime? It seems that the current mods are power hungry and I would genuinely go as far to say that this is the weakest team I've seen here yet, a bunch of unreliable power hungry people who get stepped on in the real world so come on here to make their life seen somewhat more important than it really is.

Oh, removing this thread from public view will prove my point. Please explain martin, how replying to "my post isn't off topic as I..." With "yes your post is off topic because it has no relevance to the op" is trying to moderate.

I'm genuinely angry, It's almost like some moderators are trying to point score by being absolute power hungry jerks because they dislike certain members.

[jasey]

I am sorry that even happened. Clearly, the rule was created to stop vigilante wannabe-moderators posting in every thread that they see rulebreaks in because at one point on the forum that was prevalent. You shouldn't have been reprimanded for this because you were directly replying to something stupid and untrue. If someone posted naked men going at it in News & Rumours and put a caption under the image saying "THIS AIN'T AGAINST NO RULE" and someone said that it was, what would happen? Granted, the latter example is much more severe but the principle is the same.

Moderators: Do you really think The Don was doing anything against what the rule was initially setup to stop or do you think you wanted another notch on your moderations list?

[Basshunter2309]

Martin and the moderators are just trying to do his job, I must say he is doing it well. Sorry for what happened. I sincerely hope the matter is resolved.

[xxMATTGxx]

If you have a problem with moderation that has been made by an individual and not the whole department then it should really be all dealt with via PM or in the Support Forums. There is no need for feedback thread after feedback thread when most of the time it's down to a member of the department doing something wrong than the whole department. Any threads from now on that is aimed at one individual will be moved into the Support Forums, this isn't a new rule - It's a rule that just hasn't been forced recently.

In terms of your actual post, yes it is telling them they are breaking the rules and the rule is there to stop people from saying it to every rule break there is on the forum. Now it is an odd rule as well and sometimes moderators do give out harsh warnings towards such posts. But you could of just reported the post like anyone else would of - Was there a need to reply?

[Chippiewill]

Another user posted a completely off topic post and then preceded to state that they weren't posting off topic, I commented saying that their post was off topic, disagreeing with what they said. I come on to habbox and have a pm from martin telling me that I've broke a rule. Sorry but I was responding to his post where he had previously stated that it was on topic. In no way was I trying to moderate. If that's what I was trying to do I would have told him that he broke a rule, which I didn't, I just said it was off topic and then reported the post.
It is a genuine rule that really does exist that you are probably well aware of, you could have just reported the post and left it like that.

[Jordan]

I don't see why you are now moaning about something that is actually in the rules. From what I have been told you said I completely agree with Martins actions. (on my iPod so I won't go into it too much)

[The Don]

I've had it, it is blody pathetic that when I'm clearly far from trying to moderate (no where do I say to the individual that they are breaking a rule ) I get penalised. The general management here (or should I say lack of) is going to be the end to this forum. When I come online, I don't intend to come to a website where I'm getting warned and into trouble for such trivial matters, where's the fun in that? It appears you are agreeing, that my post was some sort of attempt to moderate and warranted such a response, so good on you but I don't intend to stay a second longer and support such a ridiculous, self destructive place.

[Mathew]

Whilst I don't know the context and therefore don't have an opinion on this case specifically, I have always thought the "leave moderation to the mods" rule is rather odd. Surely we should encourage users to flag up any rule breaks so others can learn from the mistake; I see no reason why it should be hidden if someone is simply performing a good-will gesture. I don't think I've ever seen a user trying to act as a moderator, they're just trying to help. It's a subjective rule that is largely ignored, and for good reason too.

[The Don]

Whilst I don't know the context and therefore don't have an opinion on this case specifically, I have always thought the "leave moderation to the mods" rule is rather odd. Surely we should encourage users to flag up any rule breaks so others can learn from the mistake; I see no reason why it should be hidden if someone is simply performing a good-will gesture. I don't think I've ever seen a user trying to act as a moderator, they're just trying to help. It's a subjective rule that is largely ignored, and for good reason too.

A user posted in a feedback thread which has now been removed something along the lines of "*insert completely off topic crap here*" then they preceded to write "my post isn't off topic because in a screenshot in the original post I'm mentioning that" the original post was Richie complainig about being banned from hxhd and Scottish posted some chat logs to prove that Richie did break the rules. Here in those habbo screenshots you can also see habbos discussing stuff which is what the persons off topic post was discussing. I wouldn't of even bothered pointing out their post was off topic if they didn't put at the end of such an irrelevant post "oh my post isn't off topic because..." So I was merely responding to their comment.

[xxMATTGxx]

I've had it, it is blody pathetic that when I'm clearly far from trying to moderate (no where do I say to the individual that they are breaking a rule ) I get penalised. The general management here (or should I say lack of) is going to be the end to this forum. When I come online, I don't intend to come to a website where I'm getting warned and into trouble for such trivial matters, where's the fun in that? It appears you are agreeing, that my post was some sort of attempt to moderate and warranted such a response, so good on you but I don't intend to stay a second longer and support such a ridiculous, self destructive place.

And you think we come online expect to people demanding an apology or they will leave a Habbo fansite? You posted a thread and replies were made. Nothing is resolved without a discussion and by the way you have been supporting "such a ridiculous, self destructive place" for over 3+ years because that's how long that rule has been in place.

You can leave Habbox any time you want but you surely would expect to people agree or disagree with you in this thread. Like I said, if you want things to be resolved then normally a discussion has taken place beforehand.

[The Don]

And you think we come online expect to people demanding an apology or they will leave a Habbo fansite? You posted a thread and replies were made. Nothing is resolved without a discussion and by the way you have been supporting "such a ridiculous, self destructive place" for over 3+ years because that's how long that rule has been in place.

You can leave Habbox any time you want but you surely would expect to people agree or disagree with you in this thread. Like I said, if you want things to be resolved then normally a discussion has taken place beforehand.

I would expect that if I could see my staff were unfairly editing and warning users, yes. My response is above your post as to why I was actually having a discussion with that person rather than trying to moderate.

Nowhere in my post did I tell the user they had broke a rule, I was directly responding to his post where he stated he hadn't posted offtopic, if I was trying to moderate I would surely inform him he broke a rule (which I didn't) and reference what rule.

[xxMATTGxx]

I would expect that if I could see my staff were unfairly editing and warning users, yes. My response is above your post as to why I was actually having a discussion with that person rather than trying to moderate.

Nowhere in my post did I tell the user they had broke a rule, I was directly responding to his post where he stated he hadn't posted offtopic, if I was tryig to moderate I would surely inform him he broke a rule (which I didn't) and reference what rule.

Well technically you did in a way tell them they are breaking a forum rule. Like I said before hand, it's one of those rules where moderators can easily hand out harsh warnings to even if they are informing a user what not to do since they have broken a rule.

If you are replying to their post because of them saying they haven't, then the post is fine and isn't being a moderator. You are just clearly correcting them that in fact their post is breaking the rules. - Which you shouldn't be told off for. (In terms of them actually saying: "This post isn't off-topic because..")

[Inseriousity.]

Just because your post didn't say it formally "Edited by The Don (Forum Member) - Do not post off topic" doesn't mean you weren't in violation of the leave moderating to the moderators rule. It's a fairly straight-forward rule that is there to stop threads from just becoming a place of 'you broke x, you broke y' - similar to a rule on the DigitalSpy forums where it's not allowed to point out grammar mistakes. It keeps the thread on track and while threads should be able to naturally progress onto other topics, I personally wouldn't want a forum where threads are filled with 'you broke the rules.'

If you are going to leave a forum based on a warning by a moderator, I think it says more about you than this forum, to put it bluntly.

[The Don]

Just because your post didn't say it formally "Edited by The Don (Forum Member) - Do not post off topic" doesn't mean you weren't in violation of the leave moderating to the moderators rule. It's a fairly straight-forward rule that is there to stop threads from just becoming a place of 'you broke x, you broke y' - similar to a rule on the DigitalSpy forums where it's not allowed to point out grammar mistakes. It keeps the thread on track and while threads should be able to naturally progress onto other topics, I personally wouldn't want a forum where threads are filled with 'you broke the rules.'

If you are going to leave a forum based on a warning by a moderator, I think it says more about you than this forum, to put it bluntly.

if you clearly can't be both to read the specific example of what's happened, simply don't respond. I didn't do any of what you assume I did, read before you reply.

Also the fact any of us use a habbo forum speaks volumes about all of us

[Blinger]

Mate, give up now. Pretty much every Member v Staff thread all the staff **** ride each other and get their noses covered in **** to prove a point.
Best to cop it on the chin and yeah.

[Grig]

I reported the said initial post as well and saw your reply. I was really tempted to reply with it too, but, then I wouldn't be contributing anything to the said thread apart from continuing an off topic post, so there was no point.

To me, it's got to contribute to the initial discussion. If it doesn't, then there's no point in posting. You're doing no better replying to that, saying it is off-topic as sometimes the thread will just swerve from the issue at hand.

[Samantha]

If I posted something in the Habbo Rumours section that had already been posted and users then went on to say 'This threads already been posted here' and link me to it, why do they not get the 'leave moderating to the moderators' when that's what they're doing in a sense. They are basically recalling what the moderator message usually says but they don't get warned?

If I posted a Chibi in Habbo Alterations and people said 'it should be posted in this section here' and linked me, again they are basically recalling the mod message and again doesn't get warned.

In these two instances I've noticed this happening with nothing else in the post thus if Don gets warned then surely they should?

[jasey]

Agreed fully with Samanfa.

[Martin]

Hey there!

I think Matt and Mike have pretty much said it all really however I guess I should reply too. :P


This rule has been around for a long time (and was enforced a lot more when I was a mod in 2009, probably due to people breaking it more :P), and is another one of those rules which can have grey areas and can differ based on the context of the post etc.

I don't see the point in telling members they have broken a rule and why etc, that makes you sound more superior than them and I'm not saying it in your case, but in the past it has been known for members to get the rules wrong and thus confuse newer members, which is why its generally best left to the moderators. Reporting a post takes seconds and solves the issue much better. Telling people publically in a thread could a) encourage further pointless posting with them answering back/questioning you, b) causing arguments between members which we have also seen before.

I personally see the moving threads thing to be different, since posting something in the wrong place is not actually breaking a rule, and therefore you wouldnt be telling someone they have broken one.


Anyway back onto the actual rulebreak- I won't discuss it in detail now, however I edited the post because I felt it had broken a rule, as Matt said, sometimes moderators do get things wrong and nobody can be 100% perfect and have exactly the same judgement. In this case I actually got a couple of opinions from other people who are clued up on the rules and they also agreed that the post was breaking a rule. The fact that your post was reported by a member of general management also speaks for itself, considering they should know the rules well too. :P


I personally think that if you have a problem with the way a moderator has done something then you should be able to contact forum management and get the issue resolved that way, I don't think creating threads like this really solves your issue, and I have told you before when you have disagreed with a decision I have made to do that. On the other hand discussing the rule can be a good thing and I personally think that if you have a problem with my decision then you have a problem with the rule itself.

I would love to apologise to stop you leaving the forum, since people leaving over something like this would be a sad occasion, but I believe that the edit was fair in my eyes. If you don't feel that then that's where you take it up with someone higher. We can't be 100% perfect but in a lot of cases moderation is about using judgement and making decisions, not everyone will agree with said decisions but a line has to be drawn.

In regards to being 'power hungry', I really don't like that term and I do this job because I enjoy doing so and helping enforce the rules. I am not doing it to score points or gain logs. As a super moderator I also have the role of ensuring moderators do the best they can and so a lot of the time we pass rulebreaks onto moderators. We act on reported posts as we see fit, we don't go round desperately hoping for stuff to edit, it doesn't work like that at all, we do it based on the rules.

I don't know what else I can say really, but I'm sorry you disagree with the edit and with Matt/Mike posting etc, hopefully the rule is now more clear, and if not then its something else which needs clarifying by Forum Management.

[The Don]

Hey there!

I think Matt and Mike have pretty much said it all really however I guess I should reply too. :P


This rule has been around for a long time (and was enforced a lot more when I was a mod in 2009, probably due to people breaking it more :P), and is another one of those rules which can have grey areas and can differ based on the context of the post etc.

I don't see the point in telling members they have broken a rule and why etc, that makes you sound more superior than them and I'm not saying it in your case, but in the past it has been known for members to get the rules wrong and thus confuse newer members, which is why its generally best left to the moderators. Reporting a post takes seconds and solves the issue much better. Telling people publically in a thread could a) encourage further pointless posting with them answering back/questioning you, b) causing arguments between members which we have also seen before.

I personally see the moving threads thing to be different, since posting something in the wrong place is not actually breaking a rule, and therefore you wouldnt be telling someone they have broken one.


Anyway back onto the actual rulebreak- I won't discuss it in detail now, however I edited the post because I felt it had broken a rule, as Matt said, sometimes moderators do get things wrong and nobody can be 100% perfect and have exactly the same judgement. In this case I actually got a couple of opinions from other people who are clued up on the rules and they also agreed that the post was breaking a rule. The fact that your post was reported by a member of general management also speaks for itself, considering they should know the rules well too. :P


I personally think that if you have a problem with the way a moderator has done something then you should be able to contact forum management and get the issue resolved that way, I don't think creating threads like this really solves your issue, and I have told you before when you have disagreed with a decision I have made to do that. On the other hand discussing the rule can be a good thing and I personally think that if you have a problem with my decision then you have a problem with the rule itself.

I would love to apologise to stop you leaving the forum, since people leaving over something like this would be a sad occasion, but I believe that the edit was fair in my eyes. If you don't feel that then that's where you take it up with someone higher. We can't be 100% perfect but in a lot of cases moderation is about using judgement and making decisions, not everyone will agree with said decisions but a line has to be drawn.

In regards to being 'power hungry', I really don't like that term and I do this job because I enjoy doing so and helping enforce the rules. I am not doing it to score points or gain logs. As a super moderator I also have the role of ensuring moderators do the best they can and so a lot of the time we pass rulebreaks onto moderators. We act on reported posts as we see fit, we don't go round desperately hoping for stuff to edit, it doesn't work like that at all, we do it based on the rules.

I don't know what else I can say really, but I'm sorry you disagree with the edit and with Matt/Mike posting etc, hopefully the rule is now more clear, and if not then its something else which needs clarifying by Forum Management.

Well, the general manager has already said it was unfair to be punished for it.



Well technically you did in a way tell them they are breaking a forum rule. Like I said before hand, it's one of those rules where moderators can easily hand out harsh warnings to even if they are informing a user what not to do since they have broken a rule.

If you are replying to their post because of them saying they haven't, then the post is fine and isn't being a moderator. You are just clearly correcting them that in fact their post is breaking the rules. - Which you shouldn't be told off for. (In terms of them actually saying: "This post isn't off-topic because..")

May I have that apology now?

Edit:

I'd also like to pick you up on something you said



The fact that your post was reported by a member of general management also speaks for itself


Are you suggesting that merely because someone is a member of general management, their opinion is correct all the time? if so, that contradicts hugely with what you previously said:



sometimes moderators do get things wrong and nobody can be 100% perfect

[Martin]

Well, the general manager has already said it was unfair to be punished for it.




May I have that apology now?

Edit:

I'd also like to pick you up on something you said



Are you suggesting that merely because someone is a member of general management, their opinion is correct all the time? if so, that contradicts hugely with what you previously said:


Then I take it he will be contacting myself, the forum manager and the member of general management who reported the post shortly and reversing the edit then :P

Once that has happened and it is clarified to me in that way then I will happilly apologise yes, however I still stand by my belief that it went against the rule and in the past many similar posts have been dealt with the same.

Until things are clarified in a clear way then I am entitled to use my own judgement based on the current rules and the way things have previously been done. Like I said, its a grey area really, but I still go by the reasons in my post as to why it would cause complications within a thread for it to be allowed to tell members they have broken a forum rule and attempt to explain why they have done so. It wouldn't hurt to be clarified however and I'm sure it will be! :)

@xxMATTGxx (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=1020);

[The Don]

Then I take it he will be contacting myself, the forum manager and the member of general management who reported the post shortly and reversing the edit then :P

Once that has happened and it is clarified to me in that way then I will happilly apologise yes, however I still stand by my belief that it went against the rule and in the past many similar posts have been dealt with the same.

Until things are clarified in a clear way then I am entitled to use my own judgement based on the current rules and the way things have previously been done. Like I said, its a grey area really, but I still go by the reasons in my post as to why it would cause complications within a thread for it to be allowed to tell members they have broken a forum rule and attempt to explain why they have done so. It wouldn't hurt to be clarified however and I'm sure it will be! :)
@xxMATTGxx (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=1020);

Again, another example of someone not understanding a simple thing called context.

It was painstakingly obvious to everyone that I was not trying to moderate someone, I was responding to his comment, it wasn't as if he posted something off topic and I picked up on it and told him he broke a rule, I corrected him because he himself put "this isn't off topic", I thought forums were discussion boards, Can't I have a discussion with someone?

I have reason to believe, including word from a staff member, that this was picked upon and used because certain staff members dislike me, which is fine, not everybody can be friends, but if you want to pick up on this rule so heavily, would you say this post Chippiewill; is breaking this rule?


Not sure why you think you needed to write a two paragraph essay on a three word comment, I did not imply that it was not important for moderators to do their job. What I am very seriously against is the abuse and slander that they have been publicly taking in recent weeks, e.g. chris. which is completely unecessary. You have a problem with a specific moderator take it to the complaints forum, you have a problem with policy, PM Scott then PM Matt.

[Lee]

Again, another example of someone not understanding a simple thing called context.

It was painstakingly obvious to everyone that I was not trying to moderate someone, I was responding to his comment, it wasn't as if he posted something off topic and I picked up on it and told him he broke a rule, I corrected him because he himself put "this isn't off topic", I thought forums were discussion boards, Can't I have a discussion with someone?

I have reason to believe, including word from a staff member, that this was picked upon and used because certain staff members dislike me, which is fine, not everybody can be friends, but if you want to pick up on this rule so heavily, would you say this post @Chippiewill (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=40007); is breaking this rule?


There's no need to exaggerate. I agree with Martin, and the rule itself because I know that if people start going round telling others they have broken the rules (which you did do - you've admitted it) then it can lead to arguments between the two members.

[Martin]

If we look at the context of your post then we could also argue that replying to an off topic post is also off topic, since it has nothing to do with what the thread was originally about (The HxHD Ban). It is merely lengthening the off topic discussion within the thread, and would have been far better dealt with had you used the report button instead, it really is best left alone and for it to be dealt with by moderators. You didn't add anything to your post to make it have any relation to the topic of the thread, other than telling the said member that their post was off topic.

I stand by what I said and I'm not going to discuss it further here, I'm sure it will be dealt with for you soon! :)

[The Don]

There's no need to exaggerate. I agree with Martin, and the rule itself because I know that if people start going round telling others they have broken the rules (which you did do - you've admitted it) then it can lead to arguments between the two members.

Are you incapable of following a discussion? Martin; can you get the persons post and my response so people stop twisting what was said.

I didn't tell him he broke a rule, here is my exact quote.



Your post is completely off topic as it doesn’t add anything constructive to the thread and has nothing to do with any of the posts in here.


Which was in direct response to him stating "my post isn't off topic" when it was. There is no harm in correcting someone when they've said that

---------- Post added 11-05-2012 at 04:28 PM ----------


If we look at the context of your post then we could also argue that replying to an off topic post is also off topic, since it has nothing to do with what the thread was originally about (The HxHD Ban). It is merely lengthening the off topic discussion within the thread, and would have been far better dealt with had you used the report button instead, it really is best left alone and for it to be dealt with by moderators. You didn't add anything to your post to make it have any relation to the topic of the thread, other than telling the said member that their post was off topic.

I stand by what I said and I'm not going to discuss it further here, I'm sure it will be dealt with for you soon! :)

I did use the report button, and i posted it hoping it would merge with my other post unfortunately someone posted in-between.

Why can't mods admit when they're wrong?

[Samantha]

Martin; can you read more of my post please? You seem to focus more on why I gave those examples and not the part where members are moderating. At the end of the day they may be in the wrong section and there may not be a rule against it but it still requires a moderators message to inform users that it has been been moved, merged or deleted because of such reason. These reasons are outlined by members who have said 'this thread is posted here' or 'this thread is posted in the wrong section' etc. They still mean the same thing although they're not technically rules. The members are still moderating regardless of a rule in place, the moderating to moderators rule is a rule though thus the members are breaking it.

I think I repeated myself a bit there but hopefully you got what I was saying. Not being rude just saying I didn't intend for the sold focus of my reply to be based on the examples I used.

[The Don]

Here's the kids post


Omg I'm famous.. and guess what!! It's true... Germany is going to win Euro 2012!

(This post is not off-topic because it is based on one of the screenshots within this topic)



here's my response



Your post is completely off topic as it doesn’t add anything constructive to the thread and has nothing to do with any of the posts in here.


Can quite clearly see I wasn't trying to be a moderator or anything of the sort, I was responding to an outlandish post and anyone who thinks otherwise is completely wrong

I did not mention any rules, nor the fact that he broke them, I was merely correcting him so that he knew for future reference.

[xxMATTGxx]

Technically he was posting back to what the guy actually said, not replying to post and just saying it's off-topic which is what the rule would normally cover.

[Martin]

Here's the kids post



here's my response



Can quite clearly see I wasn't trying to be a moderator or anything of the sort, I was responding to an outlandish post and anyone who thinks otherwise is completely wrong

I did not mention any rules, nor the fact that he broke them, I was merely correcting him so that he knew for future reference.


In which case you would be breaking this rule too?


A7. Do not post pointlessly ~ ~ Do not post off-topic ~ An off-topic post has no relevance to the topic or any previous post that is relevant, or does little to positively contribute to the discussion.

His post was not relevant to the topic of the thread, and thus neither was yours?

I guess thats why that particular rule is worded like that.

Letting members know why they have been in breach of a rule is a moderators job, and anyone else doing it could cause disruption within a thread, and drags away from the main thread topic even more. There are different ways of letting someone know they have broken a rule, and you have basically clarified it for him where it is not really your place to do so.

I think this is going round in circles and we're not really going to get anywhere fast, so I'm sure it will be resolved by Matt/Forum Management soon when a final decision is made. :P

[Samantha]

Technically he was posting back to what the guy actually said, not replying to post and just saying it's off-topic which is what the rule would normally cover.

Using that logic would you say those who say 'the thread is already here' or 'this thread is in the wrong forum' is also some form of moderating? As I fail to see how they aren't good examples of members moderating if this case is (a form).

[The Don]

In which case you would be breaking this rule too?



His post was not relevant to the topic of the thread, and thus neither was yours?

I guess thats why that particular rule is worded like that.

Letting members know why they have been in breach of a rule is a moderators job, and anyone else doing it could cause disruption within a thread, and drags away from the main thread topic even more. There are different ways of letting someone know they have broken a rule, and you have basically clarified it for him where it is not really your place to do so.

I think this is going round in circles and we're not really going to get anywhere fast, so I'm sure it will be resolved by Matt/Forum Management soon when a final decision is made. :P

Matt has just established I didn't break the rule.

Yes, my post would be off topic, I've previously explained that I posted a constructive post, then noticed his post so I responded to it thinking my posts would merge but someone posted in between thus creating a separate, off topic post. But that's irrelevant, you didn't edit me for that, I wouldn't have an issue with that, because as we've established, it was off topic. Instead however, you edit me for impersonating a moderator which is untrue. Apology?

[xxMATTGxx]

Using that logic would you say those who say 'the thread is already here' or 'this thread is in the wrong forum' is also some form of moderating? As I fail to see how they aren't good examples of members moderating if this case is (a form).

I don't really want members going round just posting that in threads and then not adding anything to the actual discussion in the first place. Just replying to a thread telling them it's in the wrong section would just be for the sake of getting post count and would also be pointless in a way as they aren't contributing.

I also wouldn't put the blame to the moderators on editing the post for that rule, it's the rule that can be confusing at times. As there isn't really a line of what is them acting as a moderator or not - Probably something to clarify with them all.

[buttons]

i agree it's definitely the weakest team of mods i've seen ever, they follow the rules to a t without actually using their common sense. the rules need to be relaxed, using them as a guide instead of absolutely essential. it's like the pointless posting rule, i don't see how it disrupts the thread unless there is a completely off topic conversation going on in the thread.




If you have a problem with moderation that has been made by an individual and not the whole department then it should really be all dealt with via PM or in the Support Forums. There is no need for feedback thread after feedback thread when most of the time it's down to a member of the department doing something wrong than the whole department. Any threads from now on that is aimed at one individual will be moved into the Support Forums, this isn't a new rule - It's a rule that just hasn't been forced recently.
what why because it'll make your staff look bad? the problem isn't really the moderators, it's the way they deal with the rules. like i said, they edit pretty much anything that breaks the rules even if it isn't doing any harm..


In terms of your actual post, yes it is telling them they are breaking the rules and the rule is there to stop people from saying it to every rule break there is on the forum.
or maybe your staff such as the guy in question could actually read the rules then maybe they wouldn't have had to have it pointed out to them? :)

Now it is an odd rule as well and sometimes moderators do give out harsh warnings towards such posts. But you could of just reported the post like anyone else would of - Was there a need to reply?
i reported the post as i had nothing else to contribute by quoting him but i'm pretty sure i saw the don keep on topic to the thread AND quote the guy who obviously doesn't understand the rules. no harm done there, is there? he helped him out but of course, the don sticking to the rules is obviously much more important even though he didn't exactly do anything offensive..


Whilst I don't know the context and therefore don't have an opinion on this case specifically, I have always thought the "leave moderation to the mods" rule is rather odd. Surely we should encourage users to flag up any rule breaks so others can learn from the mistake; I see no reason why it should be hidden if someone is simply performing a good-will gesture. I don't think I've ever seen a user trying to act as a moderator, they're just trying to help. It's a subjective rule that is largely ignored, and for good reason too.
i agree completely.


Just because your post didn't say it formally "Edited by The Don (Forum Member) - Do not post off topic" doesn't mean you weren't in violation of the leave moderating to the moderators rule. It's a fairly straight-forward rule that is there to stop threads from just becoming a place of 'you broke x, you broke y' - similar to a rule on the DigitalSpy forums where it's not allowed to point out grammar mistakes. It keeps the thread on track and while threads should be able to naturally progress onto other topics, I personally wouldn't want a forum where threads are filled with 'you broke the rules.'

If you are going to leave a forum based on a warning by a moderator, I think it says more about you than this forum, to put it bluntly.
both rules are completely ridiculous. people should have free will to correct grammar or anything else they want to. in spam people are frequently corrected by their spelling and grammar and honestly that helped me quite a lot before.
and disagreed with the last sentence, whether it's a forum or not i don't think there is anything wrong with challenging authority over something which you suspect to be a negative or to leave something you feel is corrupt. he is flagging up an issue. other people are giving their opinions.



I don't see the point in telling members they have broken a rule and why etc, that makes you sound more superior than them
LOL WOW??? isn't that a moderators sole job, to tell off a member for breaking rules?! that actually makes the MODERATORS sound as though they're more superior than the rest. you're allowed to tell us off because you're a moderator but we're not because we aren't? i would say that's segregating and making us seem as though we're under your control lmao. this rule is actually pathetic in my opinion, it doesn't do any harm at all


but in the past it has been known for members to get the rules wrong and thus confuse newer members, which is why its generally best left to the moderators.
great logic, not. or maybe its best that its left to people who've actually been here longer and know the rules? i think its best for any person there at the time to do so. imagine someone posted porn and there was no mods online. are we just supposed to be like "carry on" or do we tell them that its actually against the rules? and maybe members should be required to read the rules before they actually become staff too? :S


Reporting a post takes seconds and solves the issue much better.
no it doesn't as you can tell them and they can edit their post and wallah, issue solved and less time for the mods to work :rolleyes:

Telling people publically in a thread could a) encourage further pointless posting with them answering back/questioning you, b) causing arguments between members which we have also seen before.
or telling someone you're not allowed to pointless post can stop them from doing it in the future (maybe not in THAT thread but afterwards) and how about waiting until it actually causes an argument before you do anything?? "posting to cause arguments" is another stupid rule. many things that are posted can be seen as offensive to someone but it doesn't always result in an argument.


In this case I actually got a couple of opinions from other people who are clued up on the rules and they also agreed that the post was breaking a rule.
many of us are clued up on your so called rules but we're not allowed to tell someone off for it? plus, rules are changeable and apparently, as i've seen, one rule isn't the same for everyone.


I personally think that if you have a problem with the way a moderator has done something then you should be able to contact forum management and get the issue resolved that way, I don't think creating threads like this really solves your issue,
it can help get everyone elses views on the matter so you can see where the rules/department as a whole is going wrong. or maybe not as our views apparently don't count.
everyone in the mod department is so scared of criticism jeez.


In regards to being 'power hungry', I really don't like that term and I do this job because I enjoy doing so and helping enforce the rules. I am not doing it to score points or gain logs.
but all u do as a mod is tell people off. its not reinforcing rules or rewarding anyone. its just getting logs and telling people off.... :S

we do it based on the rules.
thats your problem. use common sense instead.


There's no need to exaggerate. I agree with Martin, and the rule itself because I know that if people start going round telling others they have broken the rules (which you did do - you've admitted it) then it can lead to arguments between the two members.
can lead doesn't mean will lead and shouldn't be dealt with until there is an argument... |-)

[Grig]

You know what's interesting to me, that threads like this concerning a rule break of a specific member. In the past threads like these would be instantly closed and you'd have to appeal.

The conversation here can only be fair if all members saying such things get edited. Obviously, I agree if you point it out to the person but add something else that actually re-directs the post back to topic. But by simply pointing out a rule break, does not re-direct the said thread to topic, nor is it constructive in any way apart from maybe making it go more off topic and even starting an argument in some cases. That's probably why some other members never got edited for pointing stuff like that out. Although the "leave the moderating to the moderators" rule could easily have them edited as well.

Although I got frustrated at that initial post too, the overall decision was correct for both members.

[xxMATTGxx]

I will only quote this part because I'm pretty sure my other posts in this thread show my view on the punishment The Don received. (Which you didn't quote)


what why because it'll make your staff look bad? the problem isn't really the moderators, it's the way they deal with the rules. like i said, they edit pretty much anything that breaks the rules even if it isn't doing any harm..

It has always been a policy since the days of nvrspk4 that if a thread is more of a complaint because it is aimed at one person such as Martin then it would be removed and placed in the complaints/support forums as that is the correct place to deal with it. If the thread is a general feedback thread and is actually suggesting to a change of way things should be done - Forum Rules or the whole moderation department then it is fine to be in feedback.


or maybe your staff such as the guy in question could actually read the rules then maybe they wouldn't have had to have it pointed out to them?

It's not about him reading the rule, it's about how the rule should be enforced.

[Chippiewill]

I have reason to believe, including word from a staff member, that this was picked upon and used because certain staff members dislike me, which is fine, not everybody can be friends, but if you want to pick up on this rule so heavily, would you say this post Chippiewill; is breaking this rule?
That thread was not technically breaking any rules, you have a right to complain about stuff in feedback if you want, I guess, however I felt that you were trying to turn an issue with a single decision into an issue about the system, a system you weren't even using for that matter, when a thread in support would have sufficed for the issue that you personally had. Naturally everyone decided to pile on about how moderators are terrible despite the fact they are better than they used to be because all you have to compare them with is your life experiences. Naturally as you get older you get more freedoms and since you'd compare Habbox moderation against like you'd see habbox becoming stricter.


You know what's interesting to me, that threads like this concerning a rule break of a specific member. In the past threads like these would be instantly closed and you'd have to appeal.
We don't have temperamental AGMs anymore..

[Grig]

We don't have temperamental AGMs anymore..

and that's your answer to why people like buttons may think "worst group of moderators ever", because the public can now speak out and discuss their woes, unlike before. So every single issue, gets put into discussion and a 10 page thread results out of it.

People weren't always 100% pleased with moderation in the past, but it never became a huge issue or slagging off fest either.

[Chippiewill]

and that's your answer to why people like buttons may think "worst group of moderators ever", because the public can now speak out and discuss their woes, unlike before. So every single issue, gets put into discussion and a 10 page thread results out of it.

People weren't always 100% pleased with moderation in the past, but it never became a huge issue or slagging off fest either.
I certainly disagree with the staff slagging off and if it continues then I will be very disappointed with Matt since no one wants to work in a hostile environment, however so long as people can keep their complaints OBJECTIVE and about the procedure - not the staff - then I'm fine with the thread.

The AGM never actually moved a thread to complaints because it involved staff being slagged off, I think he was more bored/frustrated with arguing with people.

[jasey]

agree with everything jen says. i do think this is a pretty weak group of moderators.

[Mathew]

Complaining that they're a weak group of moderators in every post doesn't do anyone any favours; it just weakens your argument. Perhaps giving them some support once in a while could encourage them to take an alternative stance. There seems to be a slight lack of respect for people who put time into the site and receive no reinforcement other than negative feedback threads.

[Samantha]

I don't think they're a week team as such, yeah some of them get things wrong sometimes and then usually can't admit it but they're only human after all. I agree with Mathew, maybe give reasons as to why they are weak and they can improve on that.

[Stephen]

*REMOVED*

Edited by Martin (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not be rude/targetting towards other forum members and make posts which do little to contribute to the discussion

[The Don]

*REMOVED*

Maybe he wants to be a mod when the apps open

[jasey]

i reckon habbox feedback is far too negative lately people are saying bad things about professional forum moderators they need to make this private and dismiss the claims in private before too many people see

[Chippiewill]

*REMOVED*
I'm corrupt with power.

[jasey]

I'm corrupt with power.

you don't need to tell us that you are a senior content designer on basically a wiki that is one day going to be more popular than wikipedia itself i am pretty sure

[Lee]

professional forum moderators
Ah, somebody finally acknologes the two years of bootcamp and training we go through before being short listed!

In all serious I agree with you though, and I don't know what has drove people to try and publicly show up the moderators - but it isn't us because things are no worse in terms of moderators than they ever where IMO. Every time there's a (debatable) 'mistake' they completely ignore the correct procedure of contacting Forum Management, and make a big scene in Feedback. This isn't the first recently and won't be the last I'm sure.

[Samantha]

Ah, somebody finally acknologes the two years of bootcamp and training we go through before being short listed!

In all serious I agree with you though, and I don't know what has drove people to try and publicly show up the moderators - but it isn't us because things are no worse in terms of moderators than they ever where IMO. Every time there's a (debatable) 'mistake' they completely ignore the correct procedure of contacting Forum Management, and make a big scene in Feedback. This isn't the first recently and won't be the last I'm sure.

Nah, I've been wrongly done by from a moderator and I followed the correct procedure, Brandon agreed that it was wrong so I don't see how it occurs everytime.

[Lee]

Nah, I've been wrongly done by from a moderator and I followed the correct procedure, Brandon agreed that it was wrong so I don't see how it occurs everytime.

So, this is an example of how doing it the right way and not creating thread after thread in feedback gets you a result, right?

[Stephen]

Hey this is the feedback forum and I have some feedback

*REMOVED*

Make me mod for a day and I'll show you all how it's done

Edited by Martin (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not be rude/targetting towards other members of the forum!

[Catzsy]

Martin; can you read more of my post please? You seem to focus more on why I gave those examples and not the part where members are moderating. At the end of the day they may be in the wrong section and there may not be a rule against it but it still requires a moderators message to inform users that it has been been moved, merged or deleted because of such reason. These reasons are outlined by members who have said 'this thread is posted here' or 'this thread is posted in the wrong section' etc. They still mean the same thing although they're not technically rules. The members are still moderating regardless of a rule in place, the moderating to moderators rule is a rule though thus the members are breaking it.

I think I repeated myself a bit there but hopefully you got what I was saying. Not being rude just saying I didn't intend for the sold focus of my reply to be based on the examples I used.


It was decided a long time ago that telling members they had 'posted in the wrong section' or 'already posted here' was not serious enough to warrant a moderator edit under that rule. You have to look at the post and decide whether that member is just trying to be helpful or in fact is doing the job of a moderator. It is not an exact science but you can usually tell. :)

[Samantha]

It was decided a long time ago that telling members they had 'posted in the wrong section' or 'already posted here' was not serious enough to warrant a moderator edit under that rule. You have to look at the post and decide whether that member is just trying to be helpful or in fact is doing the job of a moderator. It is not an exact science but you can usually tell. :)

Ohhhh right, well I suppose that is a little harsh to mod such things but then again, The Don did basically the same yet he got warned (not about posting in wrong section but reiterated to the poster that his post was actually off topic after the poster said it wasn't) and in that sense I don't think that should have warrented a warning. However, I think this got resolved but I would be wrong. Thanks for the reply :)

[Catzsy]

Ohhhh right, well I suppose that is a little harsh to mod such things but then again, The Don did basically the same yet he got warned (not about posting in wrong section but reiterated to the poster that his post was actually off topic after the poster said it wasn't) and in that sense I don't think that should have warrented a warning. However, I think this got resolved but I would be wrong. Thanks for the reply :)


Well that is telling somebody they had 'broken the rules' and probably would have been better reported. I don't consider a pm reminder to be a warning tbh. It's just advice to a member so they can avoid it again.

[The Don]

Well that is telling somebody they had 'broken the rules' and probably would have been better reported. I don't consider a pm reminder to be a warning tbh. It's just advice to a member so they can avoid it again.

No that isn't telling somebody they broke the rules, nowhere in my post were the rules mentioned i was simply correcting the poster as they stated in their own post "this post isn't off topic", nowhere did I tell him he had broke a rule or did something which warranted moderator action. Anyway, I don't understand why this threads still going when this has been resolved and it was found that I was correct.

~Thread Closed
(See what I did there?)