Jimmy Carr's credibility is toast

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100166430/jimmy-carrs-credibility-is-toast/

Jimmy Carr's credibility is toast


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2012/06/jimmy-carr_2252620b-460x288.jpg
Jimmy Carr: perfectly legally and sensibly channelling his earnings through Jersey


I can think of at least two differences between me and the brilliantly funny, heroically near-the-knuckle comedian and satirist Jimmy Carr. One is that I don't earn in excess of £3.3 million a year. And the other is that in the unlikely event that I ever did and were – very sensibly - to channel it through an elaborate Jersey tax avoidance scheme, I could do so without the slightest stain on my conscience or my credibility.

Why? Because, as I make perfectly clear in every article I ever write on the subject, I believe that tax is legalised theft and that earners have a sacred duty to stop as much money as they (legally) can getting into the filthy hands of Big Government, because it will only go and spend it on something completely useless. It doesn't matter whether someone is an entrepreneur like my brilliant brother Charlie (of Market Invoice) or a hugely talented comic like Carr, they make important contributions to the British economy because they create value and add to the economic growth from which the whole nation benefits. Their reward, therefore, for their talent and risk should be to keep as much of the fruits of their labour as they reasonably can, consistent with their duty to help fund the basic external costs of defending their liberties – eg defence of the realm, property rights, etc.

But imagine how much of a hypocrite you'd have to be to put your money through a (perfectly legal) tax avoidance scheme, when you had earned that money in sketches like this one from Channel 4's relentlessly Left-wing 10 O'Clock Live:


Last year on Channel 4 Jimmy Carr took on Barclays for carrying out a tax-avoidance scheme. Carr donned a blonde wig to play a female bank clerk. ‘Why don’t you apply for the Barclays’ 1 per cent tax scam,’ she announced to her customers. ‘You will need the world’s biggest, most aggressive team of blood-hungry amoral tax lawyers. If you meet the criteria, you’ll pay 1 per cent tax, like Barclays do.’

How could you live with your conscience? How could you face your fans? How could you expect your sixth-form spray-on-Lefty politics to be taken seriously ever again by all your sixth-form spray-on Lefty mates like Charlie Brooker and Graham Linehan and Ben Goldacre and all the rest of the Guardianista Twitter gang who think the only solution is bigger government spending, higher taxes, more regulation and greater impositions on "the Rich"?

Actually, scrub that last question. I expect half of them are up to the same game themselves.

I agree with James Delingpole, taxation is theft - why and who said that people who are wealthier have to pay 'their fair share'? taxation after all is legal theft, the only difference is that a government does it. Obviously we need some form of taxation to run the basic services of government, but we oughtn't to tax the wealthier more as a) it's unfair and b) it punishes wealth creation - hence why I support the UKIP policy of a economically beneficial flat tax where we all pay an eventual 35% odd of tax - regardless of income.

With Carr however, as a seemingly left wing comedian, it's different. He's produced sketches on the extreme left wing television show 10 o'clock Live which slam companies such as Barclays Bank for only paying around 1% while he has been at it at the same time. The same goes for the Guardian newspaper which constantly drones about tax evasion, but which also was found to have been avoiding tax with its tax base being in the Cayman islands.

To the left, taxation is only for everybody other than themselves.

Thoughts?

[lawrawrrr]

While I don't think there should be a flat tax rate, it's absolutely not right that big companies such as Barclays the the papers are giving next-to-nothing. Jimmy Carr (if he had any credibility in the first place) has made himself look like a complete fool - he must have realised it'd get out somehow or the other...

[The Don]

I never understood why the percentage was higher for those who earn more. They would be paying more than those less fortunate than themselves anyway so what's the point of increasing the percentage as well?

[Inseriousity.]

lol keeping habbo old fashioned? undertaker will love you :P

Yes it's hypocrisy to do the very thing you criticise but you're very good with those generalisations Dan. A lot of left-wingers pay their taxes as well y'know.

[Ardemax]

I don't really find Jimmy Carr that funny, but this is.

[Chippiewill]

a) it's unfair and b) it punishes wealth creation
c) the top dogs end up paying even less because tax avoiding makes too much sense

I don't agree that taxation is theft, considering that if you really want you can just leave the country and go somewhere you don't get taxed, therefore tax is optional to some extent. However what I do agree is that a flat tax rate.

[GommeInc]

It's shocking he's been caught out, and it's not helped that he made a mockery of tax avoiders as part of a sketch in 10 O'Clock Live :P
The tax debate is a sore subject though, then again anything that involves money and sharing always is.

[luce]

At the end of the day everyone will want to save some money and he is just writing his material to what will get the biggest laugh which at the moment is stuff to do with the economy because it's all everyone is talking about.

[Chippiewill]

and it's not helped that he made a mockery of tax avoiders as part of a sketch in 10 O'Clock Live
I doubt he personally wrote those sketches.

[Empired]

Although I do find Jimmy Carr pretty funny, he brought all this upon himself. There's a saying that goes "If you live in a glass house, don't throw stones" which is basically what Carr's just done. Yes, he is just a comedian trying to make people laugh, but I would never be as stupid to do something like this, being who he is.
At the end of the day I do still like him though. I hope he stays in comedy :(

[David]

http://icap.me/i/9EDwehChrz.png

will be interesting to watch

[luce]

http://icap.me/i/9EDwehChrz.png

will be interesting to watch


Yeah Sarah Millican is on it so this should be very funny. I bet it wil boost viewers a bit. I will be watching and a I don't normally.

Also am I the only person who doesn't really care, the more i've thought about it after my post earlier the more apathetic i've become. It's farcical. I don't believe tax is stealing - that's a really naive view point in my opinion - however everyone does it and until there is a mass overhaul and these loopholes like Jersey and Guernsey (i live in Guernsey and if these loopholes were closed it would destroy the capital involved and therefore economy of the island) are closed then there is no point in crying over it.

[Oleh]

Yeah Sarah Millican is on it so this should be very funny. I bet it wil boost viewers a bit. I will be watching and a I don't normally.

Also am I the only person who doesn't really care, the more i've thought about it after my post earlier the more apathetic i've become. It's farcical. I don't believe tax is stealing - that's a really naive view point in my opinion - however everyone does it and until there is a mass overhaul and these loopholes like Jersey and Guernsey (i live in Guernsey and if these loopholes were closed it would destroy the capital involved and therefore economy of the island) are closed then there is no point in crying over it.

It all seems to be stupid in my opinion. He is being blasted for "tax evasion" yet if the government had laws set up to prevent this it wouldn't happen, even though the PM has blasted Carr himself. Government is blasting him for £3million but I remember something about £600million with somewhere and nothing got said.

[luce]

It all seems to be stupid in my opinion. He is being blasted for "tax evasion" yet if the government had laws set up to prevent this it wouldn't happen, even though the PM has blasted Carr himself. Government is blasting him for £3million but I remember something about £600million with somewhere and nothing got said.

Yeah I think my not caring has come from that fact it doesn't surprise me because it's happened before, is happening now and will happen again and they way people get away with it is that it's tax avoidance not evasion. So I think well if it's not illegal then why make a fuss about it, it's like making a fuss over someone getting more interest on their bank account than others just because they're with a different bank if you're going to be pedantic about it. Also I don't think with the issue of tax you can called someone morally wrong because if it was that morally wrong then there should be law making it illegal.

I'm sure if JC was bothered about being personally blasted by Mr Cameron, and cared that much about his opinion, he would have given him the money in the first place!

[GommeInc]

I doubt he personally wrote those sketches.
True, but it doesn't really help his case :P It'll be ammo for him.

That said, he's apologised so the matter seems closed. The real problem now is Cameron, Gary Barlow and all the politicians who avoid paying tax. Now that's where the juicy news is :P

[Chippiewill]

I just saw this week's 8 out of 10 cats and he seemed legitimately ignorant to what he'd actually been doing and I can see it as being an honest mistake.

And actually to put in perspective, as they said on the show yes it was morally wrong but so is leaving an eight year old in a pub. No one's perfect.

[Ardemax]

I just saw this week's 8 out of 10 cats and he seemed legitimately ignorant to what he'd actually been doing and I can see it as being an honest mistake.

And actually to put in perspective, as they said on the show yes it was morally wrong but so is leaving an eight year old in a pub. No one's perfect.

I was actually creasing at all the jabs at what he had done (Jon Richardson talking about Louie Spence: "Why do I have to be sat by the only person more flexible than Jimmy's bank manager?") from each person.

Towards the end I did feel a bit sorry for him (in an odd way) but Jon Richardson summed it up nicely to the words of "...the government doesn't have enough to pay for things like education and one of the reasons is people not paying their taxes..." which, is what is boils down to really.

I do think it was a bit cheap of Cameron accusing Jimmy of doing something morally wrong even though, like it was mentioned on the show, his money was stored away for him offshore.

[Chippiewill]

But at least he seemed genuinely regretful and he admitted he'd done wrong so unlike most people I can respect him for it.

[Ardemax]

But at least he seemed genuinely regretful and he admitted he'd done wrong so unlike most people I can respect him for it.

That's also what I'm getting at. Didn't Gary Barlow do some dodgy tax avoiding too? Or am I going crazy?

[Chippiewill]

That's also what I'm getting at. Didn't Gary Barlow do some dodgy tax avoiding too? Or am I going crazy?
I think he was more at fault than Jimmy. He's been ignored for the most part, probably due to being heavily involved in the Jubilee stuff.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Towards the end I did feel a bit sorry for him (in an odd way) but Jon Richardson summed it up nicely to the words of "...the government doesn't have enough to pay for things like education and one of the reasons is people not paying their taxes..." which, is what is boils down to really.

The government does have enough to pay for education (indeed, too much one could argue). The reason why education in this country is awful is not because we haven't thrown enough buckets of money over it (because we have) it's because of the abolition of the grammar schools although that's another topic altogether.

I find it morally good myself that people avoid tax - personally I think we should all of the option of opting out of appalling government services myself, then we wouldn't be forced to pay and thus use badly managed and dirty hospitals, state schools which have shiny new buildings but which are incapable of teaching anything, costly foreign adventures, tribute money to Brussels, showering cash on the likes of President Mugabe with foreign aid and much more. Indeed if we all avoided tax, maybe it would result in a big improvement.

It boils down to the fact that government takes enough of our money as it is (and borrows enough in our name), it's time it had less.

[Ardemax]

I think he was more at fault than Jimmy. He's been ignored for the most part, probably due to being heavily involved in the Jubilee stuff.

Yeah I was going to say that it's quite harsh seeing how Jimmy is all over the news and Gary has just about made it into The Sun, or something.


The government does have enough to pay for education (indeed, too much one could argue). The reason why education in this country is awful is not because we haven't thrown enough buckets of money over it (because we have) it's because of the abolition of the grammar schools although that's another topic altogether.

I find it morally good myself that people avoid tax - personally I think we should all of the option of opting out of appalling government services myself, then we wouldn't be forced to pay and thus use badly managed and dirty hospitals, state schools which have shiny new buildings but which are incapable of teaching anything, costly foreign adventures, tribute money to Brussels, showering cash on the likes of President Mugabe with foreign aid and much more. Indeed if we all avoided tax, maybe it would result in a big improvement.

It boils down to the fact that government takes enough of our money as it is (and borrows enough in our name), it's time it had less.

I was paraphrasing what he said xD You can watch it (if you haven't) here: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/8-out-of-10-cats/4od

I'm not really sure whether you're joking about the opting out of taxes thing and whether you're joking about it being 'morally good' or not, but for these purposes, I'll assume you're not. I don't think it is the right of the individual to 'opt out' of paying tax for certain services, because if a certain amount of people decide against paying it, then it will become unsustainable and have to be scrapped for everyone, including the poor who can't afford private health care and private schooling.

I assume you want 'laissez faire' policies like the ones seen in America where rugged individualism is endorsed and there is little to no help for those who cannot sustain themselves because of illness or disability. Personally, I feel that's wrong and that those who don't feel like supporting others (cough cough the rich cough cough) through financial means and through supporting the likes of the NHS, shouldn't be exempt from the extra tax.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yeah I was going to say that it's quite harsh seeing how Jimmy is all over the news and Gary has just about made it into The Sun, or something.

I was paraphrasing what he said xD You can watch it (if you haven't) here: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/8-out-of-10-cats/4od

No thank you, I can't bear the current left wing comedians or their shows.


I'm not really sure whether you're joking about the opting out of taxes thing and whether you're joking about it being 'morally good' or not, but for these purposes, I'll assume you're not. I don't think it is the right of the individual to 'opt out' of paying tax for certain services, because if a certain amount of people decide against paying it, then it will become unsustainable and have to be scrapped for everyone, including the poor who can't afford private health care and private schooling.

No it wouldn't, it would simply mean that the service is downsized which i'm sure you'll agree with me that in a democracy, if 50% of the population end up opting out then the service should thus be downsized because that is what 50% of the population want.

A very simple opt-out policy of where you pay 10% to 20% tax and are only covered by basic services such as Police/Fire along with paying for national defence and the basic functions of government - the rest of the money you earn you would be free to keep and spend on things such as a good education and good healthcare.


I assume you want 'laissez faire' policies like the ones seen in America where rugged individualism is endorsed and there is little to no help for those who cannot sustain themselves because of illness or disability. Personally, I feel that's wrong and that those who don't feel like supporting others (cough cough the rich cough cough) through financial means and through supporting the likes of the NHS, shouldn't be exempt from the extra tax.

Oh what nonsense, if you think the US healthcare system is 'rugged individualism' or laissez faire then I don't know what to say other than you should have a read into the US healthcare system which is essentially state controlled and bankrolled in 2012 - and just happens to be a mess, like the NHS.

The Singapore healthcare system is an example of relatively free market healthcare, and it works much better than state (US/UK) healthcare.

[Chippiewill]

A very simple opt-out policy of where you pay 10% to 20% tax and are only covered by basic services such as Police/Fire along with paying for national defence and the basic functions of government - the rest of the money you earn you would be free to keep and spend on things such as a good education and good healthcare.
An opt-out education system is ridiculous, everyone who doesn't need education will just opt-out leaving massive bills for already struggling parents.

Also the NHS works better that a lot of alternatives. For instance the American system encourages insurance companies to avoid paying bills at all costs, if there's even one small thing out of place they'll refuse all costs because they can. A private system is going to work to the interests of cutting corners, not quality health care.

Singapore has a slight advantage in that it's TINY.

[Misawa]

You're all forgetting that it is both a legal loophole and also exactly why you hire an accountant. If you're offered such a way, why wouldn't you take it? I can't think of anyone who wouldn't take this perfectly legal route. Blame the government, not Jimmy Carr.

[GommeInc]

I just saw this week's 8 out of 10 cats and he seemed legitimately ignorant to what he'd actually been doing and I can see it as being an honest mistake.

And actually to put in perspective, as they said on the show yes it was morally wrong but so is leaving an eight year old in a pub. No one's perfect.
There's no point listening to David Cameron, he's just seizing an opportunity without thinking for a second how morally wrong his family is for avoiding paying tax in the past. Didn't his father build of the family wealth by setting up dodgy accounts and avoiding paying actual tax too? Heck, Lord Ashdown famously avoided tax, and he was made a Lord :/ For a credible response to Jimmy Carr avoiding tax, it's best to avoid David Cameron like the plague, because he's no better for accepting it in his own political party and only being where he is thanks to such schemes.

Isn't Gary Barlow guilty too? He got an OBE recently. The country is filled with such immoral people - at least Carr is showing remorse.


You're all forgetting that it is both a legal loophole and also exactly why you hire an accountant. If you're offered such a way, why wouldn't you take it? I can't think of anyone who wouldn't take this perfectly legal route. Blame the government, not Jimmy Carr.
Indeed, it's a battle of morality and legality. Yes it was entirely legal, but should he follow it given how immoral it is? It's not the Government's fault if its citizens are finding loopholes which may never be blocked, you would hope the Government doesn't have to intervene where morals are concerned. I wouldn't want a law against cheating men and women, which is also immoral but not illegal.

[Rottentroll]

8 out of 10 Cats was interesting.

[Technologic]

Jimmy Carr is the only guy i know that can (and will) use this as a career boost and a source of material. Props to the guy ahaha

[Futz]

8 out of 10 cats was funny this week :)

[Chippiewill]

Jimmy Carr is the only guy i know that can (and will) use this as a career boost and a source of material. Props to the guy ahaha
Probably because he's the only guy to realise that if he admits his mistakes people respect him more for it.

[GommeInc]

Pfft, half the people who appear on Have I Got News For You seem riddled with bad press and use it to their advantage, or get ripped to pieces :P