The queen to meet former IRA member today

[Richie]

Today the queen is going to northern Ireland to meet Martin Mcguinness, former IRA member. I don't think there will be live coverage, even sky news seems to be finding it hard to get access. Should be an interesting historic moment.

Thread Moved by Lee (Forum Moderator): From 'Discuss Anything'.

[DPS]

Will Martin Mcguinness shake her hand... LETS WAIT AND SEE LMAO!

[Red]

and why he is deputy first minister I don't know!! I have tickets to see her tomorrow yay!!!

[David]

Frankie Boyle @frankieboyle
1m
Hope Martin McGuinness shakes hands with the Queen with a jokeshop buzzer. Nothing breaks the tension like an old woman ******** her pants.

[Kasabian]

Frankie Boyle @frankieboyle
Hats off to Martin McGuinness, I always find it difficult to make smalltalk with old folk, especially when I've blown up their cousin.

[lawrawrrr]

and that my friends, is why i despise frankie boyle.

[-:Undertaker:-]

An absolute disgrace, especially with Her Majesty losing her cousin Lord Mountbatten to the IRA scum (yes, there really is no better word to describe) and then having to shake hands with a murderer simply because her weak governments have allowed these people into government in Northern Ireland (even though they are incapable of winning elections there, thus have to resort to the killing of innocents).

Personally i'd like to see Martin McGuinness, Gerry Adams, convicted IRA criminals and Unionist terror groups all thrown in prison for what they have done like we would expect of any country which follows the rule of law.

[DPS]

An absolute disgrace, especially with Her Majesty losing her cousin Lord Mountbatten to the IRA scum (yes, there really is no better word to describe) and then having to shake hands with a murderer simply because her weak governments have allowed these people into government in Northern Ireland (even though they are incapable of winning elections there, thus have to resort to the killing of innocents).

Personally i'd like to see Martin McGuinness, Gerry Adams, convicted IRA criminals and Unionist terror groups all thrown in prison for what they have done.

Dont see how you can call the IRA Scum.. Im sorry but i just dont.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Dont see how you can call the IRA Scum.. Im sorry but i just dont.

Is this sarcasm? I really do hope so, but at the risk of this being a genuine comment - yeah, i'll freely admit that I find the killing of innocent people (bombs in shopping centres for example) is absolutely disgusting whether it comes from the IRA or the few terrorist Unionist groups that did the same to Catholic areas in Northern Ireland. I think those who kill others ought to be punished in a society which has any respect for human life or basic law.

The fact anyone has to resort to killing innocent people who have nothing to do with the politics of the conflict show what a cowardly group of men and women they are.

[DPS]

Is this sarcasm? I really do hope so, but at the risk of this being a genuine comment - yeah, i'll freely admit that I find the killing of innocent people (bombs in shopping centres for example) is absolutely disgusting whether it comes from the IRA or the few terrorist Unionist groups that did the same to Catholic areas in Northern Ireland. I think those who kill others ought to be punished in a society which has any respect for human life or basic law.

The fact anyone has to resort to killing innocent people who have nothing to do with the politics of the conflict show what a cowardly group of men and women they are.

Nope no sarcasm. things happen for a reason.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Nope no sarcasm. things happen for a reason.

So that's it then? your response to innocent women, men and children being killed whilst shopping or at home is 'things happen for a reason', ah.

What respect you show for innocent human life.

[Alba]

Is this sarcasm? I really do hope so, but at the risk of this being a genuine comment - yeah i'll freely admit that I find the killing of innocent people (bombs in shopping centres for example) is absolutely disgusting whether it comes from the IRA or the few terrorist Unionist groups that did the same to Catholic areas in Northern Ireland.
So what do you think of the British Army, who have killed many innocent Irish civilians? Are they 'terrorists' aswell?

Why don't you define a terrorist in your own words?

[-:Undertaker:-]

So what do you think of the British Army, who have killed many innocent Irish civilians? Are they 'terrorists' aswell?

Why don't you define a terrorist in your own words?

I don't pretend that the British army hasn't done bad things and done many rogue things in its history, as any army has done so.

The difference between the IRA and the British Army however is that the British army aims to (and does and did) protect innocent civillians from the likes of the IRA and UAF who used bombs against innocent peope to pursue minority political aims because, and I know IRA sympathiers will hate when I say this, the majority of people in Northern Ireland consider themselves British hence Ulster ought to remain British.

Those on here who are excusing what the IRA did is simply a reflection on their own character and what they think of human life.

[DPS]

So what do you think of the British Army, who have killed many innocent Irish civilians? Are they 'terrorists' aswell?

Why don't you define a terrorist in your own words?

So true...

I love how the British Army can invade... but when people stand up for themself and fight fire with fire nobody is happy.

Look how many innocent people have been killed in iraq and afghan.. thanks to the british army.

[Alba]

I don't pretend that the British army hasn't done bad things and done many rogue things in its history, as any army has done so.

The difference between the IRA and the British Army however is that the British army aims to (and does and did) protect innocent civillians from the likes of the IRA and UAF who used bombs against innocent peope to pursue minority political aims because, and I know IRA sympathiers will hate when I say this, the majority of people in Northern Ireland consider themselves British hence Ulster ought to remain British.

Those on here who are excusing what the IRA did is simply a reflection on their own character and what they think of human life.
So much wrong with that post that I don't know were to begin.

The British commited war crimes against the Irish long before the IRA came around. Are you going to stand by as your fellow countrymen get slaughtered for being Irish, speaking Irish, being Catholic? Or will you fight back at the rogue army invading your country?

The BA killed countless Irish civilians, their death toll of innocents in Ireland totals way more of innocents that the IRA killed. They executed a priest because they were frustrated with guerrilla tactics, they opened fire at a Gaelic football game, christ they burnt down Cork City! They even worked with the UVF, and picked out members to train them for death squads.

Then you have the more well know depiscables - Bloody Sunday, Springhill and Ballymurphy massacres, and the shoot to kill policy which was enforced in the North of Ireland by the British.



Plus more: http://www.britisharmykillings.org.uk/

I suggest you read everything on that site, everything isn't as black and white as you see it, or more importantly as the British Media want you to see it.

So i'll ask again, define to me a terrorist?

[dbgtz]

So much wrong with that post that I don't know were to begin.

The British commited war crimes against the Irish long before the IRA came around. Are you going to stand by as your fellow countrymen get slaughtered for being Irish, speaking Irish, being Catholic? Or will you fight back at the rogue army invading your country?

The BA killed countless Irish civilians, their death toll of innocents in Ireland totals way more of innocents that the IRA killed. They executed a priest because they were frustrated with guerrilla tactics, they opened fire at a Gaelic football game, christ they burnt down Cork City! They even worked with the UVF, and picked out members to train them for death squads.

Then you have the more well know depiscables - Bloody Sunday, Springhill and Ballymurphy massacres, and the shoot to kill policy which was enforced in the North of Ireland by the British.



Plus more: http://www.britisharmykillings.org.uk/

I suggest you read everything on that site, everything isn't as black and white as you see it, or more importantly as the British Media want you to see it.

So i'll ask again, define to me a terrorist?



This is purely at the site. It has zero credibility, especially when it hosts images like this:
http://www.britisharmykillings.org.uk/viewimage.jpg?inFile=./uploads/blocks/196.jpg&tX=170&tY=999&square=0&fit=0&unique=b2e653d361e2aca86ba8615783f39bc6

[Alba]

Well look at the stories on the site and do some research of your own, if you don't believe it. Countless other sites will have the same victims, bombings etc at the hands of the BA.

I don't agree with the Poppy either, although I do support and respect the veterans of the WWs. I just don't like what it represents as a whole, as I don't respect British Army of the last 50 or so years.

So it's not really surprising to see such pictures on that website..

[dbgtz]

Well look at the stories on the site and do some research of your own, if you don't believe it. Countless other sites will have the same victims, bombings etc at the hands of the BA.

I don't agree with the Poppy either, although I do support and respect the veterans of the WWs. I just don't like what it represents as a whole, as I don't respect British Army of the last 50 or so years.

So it's not really surprising to see such pictures on that website..

I did not find these countless other sites. The whole conflict seemed to be the IRAs fault anyway, frustrated that the whole of Ireland wasn't a republic when it was clear since the independent Ireland was formed in the 1920s that Northern Ireland was not on the same page. They did not have the right to use force.

Also at the second point, it represents fallen friends, family and last of all soldiers.

And to be quite honest, the ROI has fallen since independence and would have probably been better in the UK. Needless to say, many in power in Ireland are morons. I'd like to add about the comment that I'm not promoting any sort of invasion or warfare, just thinking retrospectively.

[Alba]

Alas, if you can't find anything through Google... The site I initially linked is one of the best that documents most crimes that the British done, the. A crudely made Poppy appeal image doesn't change that.

Surprised that 'Ballymurphy and Springhill massacre' 'Bloody Sunday' 'Shoot to Kill policy Northern Ireland' and a few of the victims didn't at least come up on Google though, they do for me. :)

I'd also like to add i'm not saying everything that IRA did was right, but to claim the British Army wasn't as bad/did things to protect others (as the poster who I first quoted did) is absolute none sense.

[-:Undertaker:-]

So true...

I love how the British Army can invade... but when people stand up for themself and fight fire with fire nobody is happy.

The IRA did not 'stand up for themselves', the IRA embarked on a terrorist campaign to force HM Government to surrender Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland simply because it had a sizable pro-Republican population. Well, like it or not the majority of the population in Northern Ireland wish to remain British. The IRA, being the anti-democrats and generally nasty group of human beings they are decided to respond using murder and fear in an attempt to bring about their political aims.


Look how many innocent people have been killed in iraq and afghan.. thanks to the british army.

I'm no supporter of the Iraq/Afghanistan wars either as anybody will tell you, however a) the British army at least faces those it engages in battle in (which is more than can be said for the cowardly IRA) & b) the actions of the British army overseas do not justify killing innocent people in Ireland.

Unlike IRA sympathisers like yourself, i'm at least able to state very clearly that all purpose-driven killing of innocent people is absolutely disgusting no matter what the cause - whether it is the IRA, US drones or Unionist paramilitary groups.


So much wrong with that post that I don't know were to begin.

The British commited war crimes against the Irish long before the IRA came around. Are you going to stand by as your fellow countrymen get slaughtered for being Irish, speaking Irish, being Catholic? Or will you fight back at the rogue army invading your country?

You mean hundreds of years ago? true, but then lots of other things have occured - if we all based who we ought to fight on what happened hundreds of years ago then the Turks would still be fighting the Greeks and Hungarians, the British would be fighting the Italians, the French would be fighting the Spanish and Germans and the Saudis would be at war with Iraq, Iran and Jordan.

Thankfully, most of us are able to put the past behind us rather than continue hundred year old conflicts.


The BA killed countless Irish civilians, their death toll of innocents in Ireland totals way more of innocents that the IRA killed. They executed a priest because they were frustrated with guerrilla tactics, they opened fire at a Gaelic football game, christ they burnt down Cork City! They even worked with the UVF, and picked out members to train them for death squads.

The British government worked with UVF because in times of war you sometimes have to gather intelligence from unfavourable sources, especially justified when you're fighting a just war which Northern Ireland was - and this is the central issue. The people of Northern Ireland wish to remain a part of the United Kingdom, therefore any political argument supporting the IRA is null and void - that is if you respect the democratic voice of the people.


Then you have the more well know depiscables - Bloody Sunday, Springhill and Ballymurphy massacres, and the shoot to kill policy which was enforced in the North of Ireland by the British.

I could also give numerous (and far more) examples of IRA crimes because unlike the British army in those terrible incidents, the IRA incidents were not isolated incidents - they were of a targeted campaign by an organisation to kill innocent people.

I also denounce and killing of innocents as I made clear before, and ask if you'll do the same.


So i'll ask again, define to me a terrorist?

A group which purposely targets innocent civilians to bring about their cause; the UVF/IRA/Al Qaeda. The British army, although committing some foul acts in the past is exempt from this as is the US army and others and why? because the incidents which you speak of were rogue incidents and not the tactic of the army itself nor offical policy.

And that my friend is the difference, and it doesn't make anything the IRA/UVF have done right and it doesn't make any of the isolated foul acts of the British/US army right either. But again, unlike myself - you refuse to condemn the killing of innocents (unless its the UVF/British army).

[dbgtz]

Alas, if you can't find anything through Google... The site I initially linked is one of the best that documents most crimes that the British done, the. A crudely made Poppy appeal image doesn't change that.

Surprised that 'Ballymurphy and Springhill massacre' 'Bloody Sunday' 'Shoot to Kill policy Northern Ireland' and a few of the victims didn't at least come up on Google though, they do for me. :)

I'd also like to add i'm not saying everything that IRA did was right, but to claim the British Army wasn't as bad/did things to protect others (as the poster who I first quoted did) is absolute none sense.

It does as it clearly shows a lack of knowledge about the British & our ways and the vast amounts of biasm it poses. To be honest, these events are most likely intel gone wrong as the shoot to kill policy would imply. I don't defend my countries action, just their motive.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'd also like to add i'm not saying everything that IRA did was right, but to claim the British Army wasn't as bad/did things to protect others (as the poster who I first quoted did) is absolute none sense.

Nobody here has claimed the British army is whiter than white, however to equate them with the IRA is absolute madness. I am against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, however I would never equate the US army with Al Qaeda because the two are entirely different (being that the US army at least as a noble political aim and the US army does fight fairly, apart from rogue isolated incidents like the ones you cite for the British army).


It does as it clearly shows a lack of knowledge about the British & our ways and the vast amounts of biasm it poses. To be honest, these events are most likely intel gone wrong as the shoot to kill policy would imply. I don't defend my countries action, just their motive.

The central themes you'll always notice when arguing with IRA sympathisers are that,

a) they're unable to accept that what the IRA did was wrong (killing innocent people).
b) they're unable to accept that the majority of people in Northern Ireland don't want to be a part of the Republic.
c) that British people actually don't think that everything the British army or government does is a good thing.

And no matter how many times you argue these things, they're unable to come to terms with them - mainly because most of it is emotional hyberbole based in the 1500s' as seen above.

[GommeInc]

I'm in two worlds with this. It's good that he's trying to build bridges even though the Queen is not at fault. It seems strange that he's acting like it's big of him to be meeting the Queen when it's the Queen that has more reason to be annoyed and angry at him.

[Alba]

You mean hundreds of years ago? true, but then lots of other things have occured - if we all based who we ought to fight on what happened hundreds of years ago then the Turks would still be fighting the Greeks and Hungarians, the British would be fighting the Italians, the French would be fighting the Spanish and Germans and the Saudis would be at war with Iraq, Iran and Jordan.

Forgetting about the 'Black and Tans'?

[Eoin247]

Ah lol you guys never change. How many times have you had this debate on habbox Dan? :POn topic. I think it's a great step forward. People around here are calling it the most important handshake in 30 years.

[AgnesIO]

Dont see how you can call the IRA Scum.. Im sorry but i just dont.

The fact you are suggesting that the IRA are not completely scum really makes me wonder what the hell is going through your head.

http://www.johncoulthart.com/feuilleton/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/bomb1.jpg


So true...

I love how the British Army can invade... but when people stand up for themself and fight fire with fire nobody is happy.

Look how many innocent people have been killed in iraq and afghan.. thanks to the british army.

The difference is here the people in the British Army who use guns are simply doing their jobs. Just like how a policeman arrests peoplex and a postman delivers letters. The IRA, are simply scumbags. McGuinness should be in prison, not deputy First Minister. The British Army generally fight for a cause by aiming to remove those fighting them. Now if you are telling me those men, women and children of Manchester were fighting them, then I would love to see this evidence.


This is purely at the site. It has zero credibility, especially when it hosts images like this:
http://www.britisharmykillings.org.uk/viewimage.jpg?inFile=./uploads/blocks/196.jpg&tX=170&tY=999&square=0&fit=0&unique=b2e653d361e2aca86ba8615783f39bc6

QFT.

----

Gotta say< i have no idea who you are deadmau5 - perhaps as I have only browsed during this mute thing, but let's just say first impression haven't been particularly flattering.

[DPS]

Gotta say< i have no idea who you are deadmau5 - perhaps as I have only browsed during this mute thing, but let's just say first impression haven't been particularly flattering.

Do you honestly think i could give a flying.. what you think about me? ... This is the internet im not here to be liked, im not here to make friends. end of.

[AgnesIO]

Do you honestly think i could give a flying.. what you think about me? ... This is the internet im not here to be liked, im not here to make friends. end of.

Being respected should be something you value. The whole "this is the internet" thing is old - an e-community is a form of community. Do you hold that same view in every other community?

Nevertheless, it was good of you to ignore the main points of the post!

[DPS]

Being respected should be something you value. The whole "this is the internet" thing is old - an e-community is a form of community. Do you hold that same view in every other community?

Nevertheless, it was good of you to ignore the main points of the post!

Nobody cares. get a life. :)

[-:Undertaker:-]

Ah lol you guys never change. How many times have you had this debate on habbox Dan? :POn topic. I think it's a great step forward. People around here are calling it the most important handshake in 30 years.

I debate this as strongly as I would if it were UVF sympathiers bleating about how the UVF killing innocent people is 'justified'. The targeting of innocent people for political ends is unacceptable in all circumstances. It is an important topic and often overlooked in mainstream political debate and that's why i'll always engage in it - because rarely is the side of law and order presented against those who believe murder is acceptable in politics.

No civilisation can claim to be such unless it upholds the basics of law - that those who murder the innocent ought to be punished. Until those in the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland can fully accept this basic principle, then we'll continue to be at loggerheads.