Virgin Trains loses West Coast Mainline franchise

[xxMATTGxx]

Virgin Rail has lost its bid to continue running the West Coast Mainline and will be replaced by the UK's largest rail operator, FirstGroup.

FirstGroup said it would "offer substantial improvements in the quality and frequency of services".

Sir Richard Branson said Virgin's loss of the franchise was "very disappointing news".

Unions and rail campaigners have argued jobs will be cut, fares will rise and catering services will be cut back.

FirstGroup already operates a number of rail routes including Great Western and ScotRail.

The company, under the name First West Coast Limited, will take over the franchise from 9 December and is due to to operate the service until 2026.


'Bitterly disappointed'

Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Rail has operated the West Coast franchise since 1997 after the privatisation of Britain's railways.

"We did not want to risk letting everybody down with almost certain bankruptcy at some time during the franchise, as happened to GNER and National Express who overbid on the East Coast mainline," said Sir Richard in a statement.

"Sadly the government has chosen to take that risk with FirstGroup and we only hope they will continue to drive dramatic improvements on this line for years to come without letting everybody down," he added.

Sir Brian Souter, the chief executive of Virgin's franchise partner Stagecoach, said: "I am bitterly disappointed that Virgin Rail has been unsuccessful in its bid.

"After 15 years, it is difficult to imagine a West Coast rail service without the Virgin brand."

He said the group would now look at whether to bid on other rail franchises coming up for renewal.


Can read more about it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19264614#TWEET195384

Can also read Virgin's press statement here: http://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/blog/on-virgin-trains


Bit of a shame really - I wonder how good First will do at having the franchise, if they are like the buses then good luck to the passengers!

[-:Undertaker:-]

Why is the state in the business of granting rail contracts? so much for 'privatisation'.

[Ardemax]

Sounding slightly dumb here, but where does the West Coast Mainline run? And please don't say the "West Coast".

[xxMATTGxx]

Sounding slightly dumb here, but where does the West Coast Mainline run? And please don't say the "West Coast".

All the way from Edinburgh to London Euston - Looks something like this:

Note: Stations might be missing from it but it gives you an idea of the line


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4048/4502541000_ca7fbef35b.jpg

[RyRy]

eugh virgin trains were like the best when i had to travel from london to birmingham and liverpool firstgroup are terrible if their south west service is anything to go by ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[lTraditional]

I wonder how good they are because I swear, if they are like the bus services in Birmingham (especially yesturday, leaving me half an hour late somewhere) I will scream. Long story short from yesturday's experience: I waited for the 5pm bus, got their at 4:45 as it is sometimes early, instead it decided not to come so I had to catch the 5:30pm bus which came 10 minutes late so 55 minutes at the bus stop and I was meant to meet people at 5:15!

[hamheyelliot]

Bitterly disappointed at this, Virgin Trains are pretty much half the story of my childhood going between London and Manchester every few months. They'll also strip out the nice little catering bit with the sandwiches and drinks for more seats. That sucks too.

[Neversoft]

**** FirstGroup. They own the southern FCC commuter services to London and they are literally the worst trains I have ever been on in every possible aspect. Customer service is next to nothing, the trains are awfully maintained and always late. I use Virgin's West Coast service a lot, and besides the air conditioning sometimes set to freeze, they have been perfect, every single time. Plus the advance fares are a godsend. If they change those in any way I will explode with insane rage. Why would they do this to our dear Branson. Down with the government!

[Inseriousity.]

If firstgroup also run first transpennine express, I use this to commute to uni and it's a brilliant train although admittedly this may be because I'm in the North and according to southerners most of us are still using the old horse and carriages. ;P

They should really change the standard class to first class and first class to you have more money than sense class because train fares are ridiculous. Hooray for the railcard, I'd be stuffed without you.

[Circadia]

Oh God that's the line I used to get down to London all the time
If they are bad trains I'll actually scream cause I had hardly any complaints with the Virgin trains
I'll guess I'll find out what they are like when I next go to London -_-

[GommeInc]

Why is the state in the business of granting rail contracts? so much for 'privatisation'.
It's one of those lovely moments where the Government are all for privatisation but they hold on to the land and rail lines. Virgin/FirstGroup have the trains but the Government owns the tracks, or at least they think they do. It doesn't make any sense why Virgin lost the deal as they clearly had the determination to deliver.

I guess time will tell how well FirstGroup take the challenge. FirstGroup is alright in the Southeast, they run the trains on HS1 (the High-Speed train to London from Kent). They used to run the trains from Essex to London too but they lost that to a Dutch company called Greater Anglia. They were alright before that. They seem a bit distant from the passengers who use their trains though, ever since they hired the American CEO which sort of ruins the point they make that they're a British company (but Stock Exchange listing only)

[xxMATTGxx]

Are we on about before privatisation when it used to be called British Rail? Because it wasn't exactly any better back then.

[GommeInc]

It's more the fact that privatisation was meant to improve the services beyond when it was nationalised and reduce public spending, and privatisation usually means there is little to no Government intervention. You'd think Virgin would still have the franchise, yet the Government seems to have control of who runs on what lines despite a decent track record (excuse the pun). It's sort of quasi-privatisation. The public still own the lines yet the lines are used by private companies. It can be quite wasteful on both sides. It's probably why fares are a bit dodgy. Either have it nationalised or privatised, never somewhere inbetween.

[xxMATTGxx]

It's more the fact that privatisation was meant to improve the services beyond when it was nationalised and reduce public spending, and privatisation usually means there is little to no Government intervention. You'd think Virgin would still have the franchise, yet the Government seems to have control of who runs on what lines despite a decent track record (excuse the pun). It's sort of quasi-privatisation. The public still own the lines yet the lines are used by private companies. It can be quite wasteful on both sides. It's probably why fares are a bit dodgy. Either have it nationalised or privatised, never somewhere inbetween.

Yeah I would rather have Virgin still run the WCML for sure - The government seems to have gone to the company that has put a higher bid in. Although I know it's always about money but the whole GNER/National Express showed how well that can go and probably why Virgin is pretty annoyed at the decision. We can only see what will happen with First running it - Maybe they will do well or maybe they will go downhill.

Although I think this might be correct: I think First may of mentioned about reducing staff? Where as Virgin said they bidded this amount of money so that they could keep all of their current staff.

Maybe I am just a fan of the Virgin brand but when you have 91% customer ssatisfaction in 2012 - Do things really need to change?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/427270_10150984360430872_810147858_n.jpg

[GommeInc]

Yeah I would rather have Virgin still run the WCML for sure - The government seems to have gone to the company that has put a higher bid in. Although I know it's always about money but the whole GNER/National Express showed how well that can go and probably why Virgin is pretty annoyed at the decision. We can only see what will happen with First running it - Maybe they will do well or maybe they will go downhill.

Although I think this might be correct: I think First may of mentioned about reducing staff? Where as Virgin said they bidded this amount of money so that they could keep all of their current staff.

Maybe I am just a fan of the Virgin brand but when you have 91% customer ssatisfaction in 2012 - Do things really need to change?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/427270_10150984360430872_810147858_n.jpg
Indeed, it's what I'm failing to understand - they have a good customer satisfaction so why there needed to be change doesn't make sense. The highest bidder doesn't necessarily mean better for the customers, and as you noted - there are talks of reducing the workforce which, from a report by the BBC, was something Virgin pledged wouldn't happen if they kept the contract.

Bizarre, but I guess we have to see what FirstGroup bring to the table :/ Isn't it Virgin's only train franchise?

[xxMATTGxx]

GommeInc;

Yeah it is - Virgin being on the railway is now in doubt as they don't want to bid for other franchises because it costs so much money. They bidded for the ECML before as well but they went to companies that had to be helped by the government. (GNER, National Express)

Those bids were also quite high and this is why Virgin are unhappy because another high bid as took place and there is risks of doing that such as not being able to pay, jobs losses etc.

[GommeInc]

Hmm, strange. It's not like FirstGroup/National Express are in that much trouble. You would think the Government would support Virgin rather than support their competition because it was their main/only franchise. It seems a bit anti-competitive of the Government. It makes you wonder what Greater Anglia (owned by Abellio) did to secure the Greater Anglia franchise from National Express.

Virgin could just wait and see what happens. If FirstGroup fail, they could try and replace them as the operator :P

[xxMATTGxx]

Hmm, strange. It's not like FirstGroup/National Express are in that much trouble. You would think the Government would support Virgin rather than support their competition because it was their main/only franchise. It seems a bit anti-competitive of the Government. It makes you wonder what Greater Anglia (owned by Abellio) did to secure the Greater Anglia franchise from National Express.

Virgin could just wait and see what happens. If FirstGroup fail, they could try and replace them as the operator :P

National Express as in the coach company aren't in trouble I don't think? The problem is when they took over the ECML some years after a big mess came up and the government had to take it back off them and make it into a public ownership while it was all going on.


East Coast is a trading name of East Coast Main Line Company Ltd (ECMLCo), a subsidiary of Directly Operated Railways Limited, formed by the Department for Transport as an operator of last resort when National Express refused further financial support to its National Express East Coast (NXEC) subsidiary and consequently lost its franchise.

Directly Operated Railways is actually owned by the Department for Transport meaning it's currently ran by the public I assume. This is what Virgin was getting at because they basically failed and it was all down to a high bid.


The Department for Transport (DfT) handed the contract to FirstGroup after Virgin's rival made an offer of £5.5bn to run the line for the next 13 years - £423m a year. Sir Richard tweeted that he had bid £750m less.

In his blog, Sir Richard voiced fears that the amount FirstGroup paid will make the contract unprofitable, forcing the Government to take back ownership of the line. This is what happened with the East Coast Main line, when first GNER (in 2007) and then National Express (in 2009) were stripped of the contract after they could not afford to pay the Government £1.3bn for the right to run the service.

[GommeInc]

They're not now, but their train franchise is virtually non-existent these days. I remember the issues the Greater Anglia line had (which is part of the ECML) :P

All Virgin can hope is that FirstGroup mess up so they can take over the reins. It seems the Government just wanted the higher bidder just for the money, rather than ensure people keep their jobs or have a service they know is decent and one with which they are familiar with. Story of their life if you're against the cuts :P

[Neversoft]

Petition - http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/37180

[-:Undertaker:-]

Are we on about before privatisation when it used to be called British Rail? Because it wasn't exactly any better back then.

It wasn't no, but it's just as bad now because the 'private' companies (who are infact subsidised heavily by the taxpayer) are often poorly run because there is little incentive to improve services when you are granted wads of taxpayer cash each and every year. The same goes for the 'private' bus companies, all of whom are heavily regulated, taxed and subsidised - they are only private in name.

If we truly had a privatised transport system then all subsidies would end to bus/rail companies and as many companies would be able to operate or own the lines/trains/bus stops as they wished (so if you and me wanted to buy a second hand bus and run it at school times, undercutting the Arriva price of £1.50 then we could do so). The same goes for the roads and motorways, road tax and all motor tax would be scrapped and the roads would become toll roads which are privately owned.

I'd like to see that happen, but its only once in a blue moon that the state will get its grubby fingers off (the Thatcher Ministry).

[xxMATTGxx]

Update on this matter and the signing has been put on hold due to legal action by Virgin:



The deal to hand the West Coast Main Line rail franchise to First Group is to be delayed following a legal challenge by current operator Virgin.

Virgin launched the challenge last week after losing its attempt to continue operating the route.

Ministers were expected to sign the deal with First Group several days ago.

But they have confirmed due to the legal challenge the contract has not been signed and "the competition remains live".

Virgin has run the West Coast Main Line since 1997, but lost out to FirstGroup, prompting it to demand a review.

Labour had also urged the government to defer signing the contract so that MPs could examine it.

'Significant improvements'

And more than 165,000 people have signed an online petition calling for the decision to be reconsidered.

In a written ministerial statement transport minister Theresa Villiers said: "As a result of a legal challenge, which the government intends to defend robustly, we have not yet signed the contract with First West Coast, and consequently the competition remains live."



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19467510

[xxMATTGxx]

West Coast Main Line deal ditched


Ministers have scrapped the decision to award the West Coast Main Line rail franchise to FirstGroup saying the bidding process was flawed.

The contract - awarded in August - was immediately challenged in the courts by Virgin Trains, which lost out.

Ministers say there were "significant technical flaws" in the way the risks for each bid were calculated and say the bidding process must be rerun.

They have also ordered two independent reviews into what happened.

One will examine how the West Coast franchise competition went wrong, and what lessons can be learned.

'Deeply regrettable'

The other review will look into the wider Department for Transport rail franchise programme.

Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin described the mistakes made by his department as "deeply regrettable and completely unacceptable".

He said: "A detailed examination by my officials into what happened has revealed these flaws, and means it is no longer acceptable to award a new franchise on the basis of the competition that was held.

"West Coast passengers can rest assured that while we seek urgently to resolve the future arrangements the trains that run now will continue to run with the same drivers, the same staff and timetables as planned."

FirstGroup was due to take over train services on the line - one of Britain's busiest - in December.

The Department for Transport said because of the decision to rerun the bidding process it would no longer be contesting the judicial review launched by Virgin Trains in the High Court.

And it said an announcement would be made about the suspension of staff while the investigation into the mistakes is carried out.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19809717

[-:Undertaker:-]

I get so angry when the state is involved in these things - why is the state running the railway system and the rail market? but hey, you know what they say it is when corporations and government are in bed together..