Rep thing

[GoldenMerc]

Hi,

Okay this rep thing is getting a bit silly, Who ever reports a -rep it just seems to get removed, no matter if i write until their is no space more to do, its absolutely pointless. Is any of the Senior Management (AGM's or FMs) going to actually tell me whats acceptable as a -rep, as no matter how many times i write why im giving the -rep it gets removed.
Ross

Moved by Lee (Forum Super Moderator): From 'Habbox Feedback' as this is a forum issue.

Thread moved back to 'Habbox Feedback' from 'Forum and Moderation' by Martin (Forum Manager) So discussion can take place on this issue.

[the.games]

Well according to the FAQ's, it's this:
When you do something bad you will most likely receive -Rep. You may receive a -Rep for the following reasons:


Pointless Posting
Being rude
Breaking the forum rules

But you may want Martin; to clarify things as by what your saying it seems that your rep is being removed wrongly.

[GoldenMerc]

Well according to the FAQ's, it's this:
When you do something bad you will most likely receive -Rep. You may receive a -Rep for the following reasons:


Pointless Posting
Being rude
Breaking the forum rules

But you may want @Martin (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=55726); to clarify things as by what your saying it seems that your rep is being removed wrongly.

All of them i keep to, i explain clearly why im -repping them, one thing i'd like to ask. If i have a arguement with someone on Habbo is it acceptable to -rep them for it?

[the.games]

All of them i keep to, i explain clearly why im -repping them, one thing i'd like to ask. If i have a arguement with someone on Habbo is it acceptable to -rep them for it?

That really depends. I personally would say that it probably isn't the best idea as it may be appealed successfully, but as long as your not -repping out of revenge I don't see why there is a problem with it. So I would say you are able to -rep them for it, but:
a) This may result in them doing the same to you and;
b) Your -rep may be removed if the Admin team believe that it was not given fairly.
so be careful :)

You still might want to get brandon; or Martin;s take on this as this may be incorrect.

Hope this helps :)

[GoldenMerc]

Spoke to Brandon about this previously, maybe have to speak to Martin

[Samantha]

Well really it shouldn't be removed if it occurred on Habbo, members +rep a cnb post/competitions etc on the forum, maybe because they like them? If you didn't like the event then you should rightly be entitled to -rep them.

[xxMATTGxx]

I'm just going to come in to this thread and see what people think about this:

If people give -rep for stuff that hasn't happened on the forum and has happened on other services such as Habbo - How do we take judgement whether it is breaking the reputation rules? Or do you feel we should just leave them be...

[Kyle]

From what I can tell it would seem that, because the argument is one-sided, every -rep reported gets removed. The idea of +/-repping a cnb post seems a little too far... I don't think it's fair to -rep someone's post based on something that has happened elsewhere just because you're a bit butthurt, you should deal with the issue on the service that it happened. It seems that some people like to use their big rep power on the forum as a weapon against people that may have annoyed them elsewhere and it really isn't very fair. It's forum reputation, not reputation everywhere else.

[Martin]

From what I can see, its always been a very hard thing to judge, and the people I've spoke to don't really have an answer at the moment either really which is the same position I am in.

We cannot monitor what happens in the outside world/on other services and so people having a personal issue with someone because of something else they have done doesn't need to be brought to the forum I think. It is really hard for us to know what happened, whether it is justified and whether people are telling the truth and that itself could lead to big arguments.

We are talking about 2 -reps in a couple of days based on an opinion of an events organisers event. I don't think reputation should be used as a punishment for mistakes (if there was any) a staff member makes whilst doing something voluntary for habbox, and this could have been resolved in much better ways than via the reputation system I think.


When it is based on posts its easy for us to work out if it is a genuine rep, however when it goes further and is based on someones opinion of someone it makes it harder to draw a line.


I am glad Matt has put this to the public and I think collectively we need to try and discuss what really is fair to use the reputation system for, or whether we should be relaxed on it and let people potentially use it for other means, that are not really forum based, and kinda using it against people.

[GoldenMerc]

I feel -rep's shouldn't be removed at all, considering its always an opinion and a opinion is always a valid opinion.

[Kyle]

I feel -rep's shouldn't be removed at all, considering its always an opinion and a opinion is always a valid opinion.
Not when the opinion stems from somewhere other than the user's posts on the forum though. Opinions are fine, using -rep as a way of attacking users because you dislike something they did in client really isn't.

[xxMATTGxx]

I feel -rep's shouldn't be removed at all, considering its always an opinion and a opinion is always a valid opinion.

But don't you also feel -rep comments with "lol" are also valid where I would disagree with that.

[GoldenMerc]

But don't you also feel -rep comments with "lol" are also valid where I would disagree with that.

Don't remember the last time i -repped someone saying "lol" other than Milarz.

[Martin]

But don't you also feel -rep comments with "lol" are also valid where I would disagree with that.

agreed with this.

Another one being when someone is clearly targetting someone with -reps because they have a bad opinion of them/have a problem with them.


I think some people take reputation a lot more serious than others and to some people, especially younger members it can be quite off putting and extremely negative to continuously punish someone via rep for a mistake which may/may not have occured in an event. That is a completely different issue altogether and should be taken up with events managers surely, rather than a user taking it into their own hands and basically saying they did a **** job on the forum.


Comments are often used to decide whether something is pointless and things like "lol" and "u smell" etc are the common things which give it away. It does make it hard to draw a line when the thing the rep is about has happened outside the forum, and I always thought the reputation system was for the forum, not for people to get back at people/get revenge for things which have happened elsewhere.


Will wait and see what some more people say, but I can see both sides of the argument really, and we need to find a balance in which the majority of members are comfortable with to ensure the system is fair and doesnt get abused.

[GoldenMerc]

Swear most people don't know what reputation means;

rep·u·ta·tion   [rep-yuh-tey-shuhn] Show IPA
noun 1. the estimation in which (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/which) a person or thing is held, especially by the community (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/community) or the public generally; repute (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/repute): a man of good reputation.

2. favorable repute (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/repute); good name (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/name): to ruin one's reputation by misconduct.

3. a favorable and publicly recognized name or standing for merit, achievement, reliability, etc.: to build up a reputation.

4. the estimation or name of being, having, having done, etc., something specified: He has the reputation of being a shrewd businessman.





Means what someone's opinion is of them, so if i dislike Martin and i think oh he's a nasty person and his posts are hurtful, I -rep him, as thats my opinion of him, eventually if hes like that to everyone his REPUTATION will go down.

[David]

i would disable report rep forum for a week and see what effect it has

[Chris]

i would disable report rep forum for a week and see what effect it has

Wouldn't that just give people more chance to abuse the system? :P Genuine pointless reps are made but at the moment there isn't a very good way to differentiate what is and isn't pointless.

[Stephen]

some ****** on here somehow gets all the genuine -reps I give him removed

whoever removes the rep needs to be fired and decapitated with a blunt axe

[FlyingJesus]

Think a lot of people need to have a good old read up on what "reputation" means and then realise that there's no such thing as invalid rep

[xxMATTGxx]

Looks like there's no win to this because everyone will have a different view on the matter at the end of the day. Reputation was put into forums so you could rate peoples posts. Not because they have done something to you on skype, msn, twitter, facebook or Habbo. So giving users negative reputation for any of those is a bit of an odd move and surely should just keep it off the forum.

[GoldenMerc]

Looks like there's no win to this because everyone will have a different view on the matter at the end of the day. Reputation was put into forums so you could rate peoples posts. Not because they have done something to you on skype, msn, twitter, facebook or Habbo. So giving users negative reputation for any of those is a bit of an odd move and surely should just keep it off the forum.
But its an opinion...

[xxMATTGxx]

But its an opinion...

Yes but doesn't mean it's fair to give that person that opinion. I could -rep anyone saying:

"Haha you are ugly cow"

Is that ok to give? Surely that should be removed as it's very nice is it..

[David]

xxMATTGxx; why not disable negative reputation in usergroups?

[xxMATTGxx]

xxMATTGxx; why not disable negative reputation in usergroups?

Can do but then people will probably have a moan about that.

[GoldenMerc]

Yes but doesn't mean it's fair to give that person that opinion.
Well that defeats the purpose of "Reputation"

@xxMATTGxx (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=1020); why not disable negative reputation in usergroups?
ngl may aswel, but then may aswel disable +rep aswel and just let these carry on with posts + join date :/

[FlyingJesus]

Technically one could quite reasonably be enamoured or enraged by even the most innocent of looking posts if the presence of the user attached to it evokes such feelings, in which case it's still to do with the post :P

[xxMATTGxx]

Well that defeats the purpose of "Reputation"

ngl may aswel, but then may aswel disable +rep aswel and just let these carry on with posts + join date :/

So can I -rep anyone I see and call them an ugly dog, since that is my opinion.

[David]

Can do but then people will probably have a moan about that.

the people who complain are obviously the ones abusing the system?

[FlyingJesus]

So can I -rep anyone I see and call them an ugly dog, since that is my opinion.

Well yes

[xxMATTGxx]

Well yes

But that's not a very nice thing to do now is it?

[FlyingJesus]

What are you Martin :P

Am kidding, but no it wouldn't be nice, doesn't mean it's not valid

[GoldenMerc]

Yeh its mean Matt, but its an opinion, depending who you say it to its also true...

[xxMATTGxx]

What are you Martin :P

Am kidding, but no it wouldn't be nice, doesn't mean it's not valid


Yeh its mean Matt, but its an opinion, depending who you say it to its also true...

But if reputation is never invalid - Means we shouldn't delete them, if that is what you are saying? Or are you saying we should never delete reputation unless it breaks any of the other forum rules. (Such as bullying)

[GoldenMerc]

Never delete it unless its bullying, personally.

[FlyingJesus]

Oh I absolutely agree that actually rulebreaking within rep should still be dealt with, and realistically your example would fall under that as I think most people would class calling someone an ugly dog as bullying, but -rep (or +rep for that matter) that doesn't have an accompanying comment hurling abuse is nothing more than someone expressing their opinion on a person/their post, which of course affects ones reputation.

If anyone reading this goes outside ever can you please confirm that this is how the real world works too? I imagine it is but obv life=Habbo for me so I can't know for sure

[Stephen]

May I ask who actually has the job of removing rep at the moment?

[David]

May I ask who actually has the job of removing rep at the moment?

isnt it brandon and martin?

[Johnathan]

Looks like there's no win to this because everyone will have a different view on the matter at the end of the day. Reputation was put into forums so you could rate peoples posts. Not because they have done something to you on skype, msn, twitter, facebook or Habbo. So giving users negative reputation for any of those is a bit of an odd move and surely should just keep it off the forum.

That I couldn't agree more with!

[nvrspk4]

The idea that the definition of the word reputation and the vBulletin feature reputation are exactly the same thing is fundamentally flawed. Reputation is a name given to a feature implemented by vBulletin and used on the Habbox Forums. It seems the policy of the Habbox management team (and one I agree with and that has been in place for a while) is that reputation is a system to provide feedback on a user's forum posts, not their activities outside of said forums.

That said, if the user is an ass in the forums, a negative reputation saying that "This was rude" or "Your post is ignorant and poorly reasoned." or "This post sure didn't make the situation any better." or even "This alt is awful, you literally took the line tool in paint and drew a dog" are valid -reps, though not the nicest, -rep usually isn't. "Lol", "You suck", "I don't like you" are not valid -rep because they're not comments on forum posts. "This post was very rude and arrogant, I don't like you" is obviously a valid -rep.

Though certain people cough like to try and game this by writing a very valid reputation statement to a post that clearly has nothing to do with the rep comment. Those I used to also remove because it was clear that there was something else going on, and -rep was often used as a bullying tool. Basically, in my opinion, if it's a legitimate opinion on the post itself, regardless of whether the repper is "right", it's valid.

[Samantha]

The idea that the definition of the word reputation and the vBulletin feature reputation are exactly the same thing is fundamentally flawed. Reputation is a name given to a feature implemented by vBulletin and used on the Habbox Forums. It seems the policy of the Habbox management team (and one I agree with and that has been in place for a while) is that reputation is a system to provide feedback on a user's forum posts, not their activities outside of said forums.

That said, if the user is an ass in the forums, a negative reputation saying that "This was rude" or "Your post is ignorant and poorly reasoned." or "This post sure didn't make the situation any better." or even "This alt is awful, you literally took the line tool in paint and drew a dog" are valid -reps, though not the nicest, -rep usually isn't. "Lol", "You suck", "I don't like you" are not valid -rep because they're not comments on forum posts. "This post was very rude and arrogant, I don't like you" is obviously a valid -rep.

Though certain people cough like to try and game this by writing a very valid reputation statement to a post that clearly has nothing to do with the rep comment. Those I used to also remove because it was clear that there was something else going on, and -rep was often used as a bullying tool. Basically, in my opinion, if it's a legitimate opinion on the post itself, regardless of whether the repper is "right", it's valid.

Oh forum posts so not competition prizes ok.

I don't think it all gets removed I've -repped a few people and it hasn't been removed, that's if they've reported it.

[xxMATTGxx]

Oh forum posts so not competition prizes ok.

I don't think it all gets removed I've -repped a few people and it hasn't been removed, that's if they've reported it.

Well the reason why reputation is used there is to save on other funds. Feel free to donate though :P

[Samantha]

Well the reason why reputation is used there is to save on other funds. Feel free to donate though :P

Inseriousity. will not accept my donations so why should I bother?

[xxMATTGxx]

Inseriousity. will not accept my donations so why should I bother?


Well he shouldn't but I can't answer on behalf of him in regards of that. But I've never refused donations since day one.

[CrazyLemurs]

Clearly, there are going to be people who -rep simply because they don't like someone.
If the post in question is blatantly nasty to someone, or breaks forum rules, it should be -repped.

If reputation is supposed to something representing your opinion of the person, then surely you shouldn't -rep someone for a post that concern your opinions of them, such as in the photography forum, if all they have done is taken a picture of their local field.
It's not like you now have a lower opinion of the person, it's just that in one specific occasion, you didn't like their post.

Getting -rep removed can be valuable for members with low rep counts (if someone has 100 rep and your -rep is worth 10 points, that is quite a lot in reality), especially if the post isn't worth the -rep.

I only -rep people when their post insults me outright (and in some circumstances, insults my friend/s) or the post shouldn't be made on the forum.

Making someone lose possibly crucial rep points because of something they have done off-HxF is a stupid idea. The reputation feature is enabled on this forum in order to measure the community's reputation on this forum. When MSN, Skype and Habbo get a reputation feature, -rep them there.

[nvrspk4]

Theoretically, a competition (one on the forum) is legitimate, because it is based off of a forum post. But as for giving prizes for Habbo events etc., yeah it could be argued that that should be discontinued. The initial logic was to get Forum members to participate in Habbo events when they don't want the furni, but it's a fair point that rep isn't meant for that, same as when we discontinued purchasing reputation way back.

[FlyingJesus]

Chirs buys rep

[dirrty]

blah blah blah if people receive pointless +rep (and obviously don't report it) then they shouldn't have the audacity to report pointless -rep (unless its rude, offensive, insulting etc.)

[Johnathan]

blah blah blah if people receive pointless +rep (and obviously don't report it) then they shouldn't have the audacity to report pointless -rep (unless its rude, offensive, insulting etc.)

Exactly. What is the point of getting all pissy over something so trivial?

[LiquidLuck.]

From what I can tell it would seem that, because the argument is one-sided, every -rep reported gets removed. The idea of +/-repping a cnb post seems a little too far... I don't think it's fair to -rep someone's post based on something that has happened elsewhere just because you're a bit butthurt, you should deal with the issue on the service that it happened. It seems that some people like to use their big rep power on the forum as a weapon against people that may have annoyed them elsewhere and it really isn't very fair. It's forum reputation, not reputation everywhere else.

I totally agree with this. Anyone with a lot of Rep otf feels like they can do anything at all, just because they can just -Rep you otf and you'll stop arguing with them because you'll be afraid to get more -Rep. I've heard this has happened with another member and GoldenMerc, and it's actually happening to me and him right now, which I think this is why this thread started? Lol. Anyway, I think that when you -Rep someone you should be able to only use one of the three forum reasons to -Rep someone. If they didn't agree with the -Rep, they could ask for it to be taken away. Like this -Rep would be given fairly. Also I'm sure the random +Rep has been given to EVERYONE and no one complains about it that much, for that reason just let it be..

[nvrspk4]

Chirs buys rep

SCANDAL! Used to be much worse. Remember the guy that bought like 250 pounds of it?

[FlyingJesus]

And that Kyle kid who used to buy the accounts of people who had high rep and try to get it transferred

[Matthew]

That really depends. I personally would say that it probably isn't the best idea as it may be appealed successfully, but as long as your not -repping out of revenge I don't see why there is a problem with it. So I would say you are able to -rep them for it, but:
a) This may result in them doing the same to you and;
b) Your -rep may be removed if the Admin team believe that it was not given fairly.
so be careful :)

You still might want to get @brandon (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=3638); or @Martin (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=55726);s take on this as this may be incorrect.

Hope this helps :)

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet and it may have already been said however IMO you should not be able to -rep people for things that happen off the forum. The reputation system is for use on the forum only- it shows your reputation on the forum, not on habbo or in real life etc.

Also regarding what you said in 'a)', that would be a revenge rep anyway so it doesn't particularly matter :P

[GoldenMerc]

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet and it may have already been said however IMO you should not be able to -rep people for things that happen off the forum. The reputation system is for use on the forum only- it shows your reputation on the forum, not on habbo or in real life etc.

Also regarding what you said in 'a)', that would be a revenge rep anyway so it doesn't particularly matter :P

But that is still an opinion if its on or off the forum, e.g if you hacked my msn, i -rep you.
I have a poor opinion of you and want to bring your rep down.

[Johnathan]

But that is still an opinion if its on or off the forum, e.g if you hacked my msn, i -rep you.
I have a poor opinion of you and want to bring your rep down.

I don't really see the huge deal either. If you think in any way of a person because of posts, personality or anything really. Its personal opinion. The reputation system is in place to show other users you may support, or disagree with posts or just them in general. Do I think reputation points should be removed by Admin/Mod's? In some instances, if people are total ******** then yes. But if the person giving the reputation has a legitimate reason then I don't really see the big issue.

[Matthew]

But that is still an opinion if its on or off the forum, e.g if you hacked my msn, i -rep you.
I have a poor opinion of you and want to bring your rep down.

The reputation is a measure of your reputation on the forums though. Obviously if I hack your msn then you'll have a poor opinion of me but its not in any way connected to the forum and so you shouldn't be able to -rep me for it. Its kinda like you wouldn't report someone on habbo if they scammed you on runescape maybe? idk haha

[mrwoooooooo]

just get rid of rep its pointless anyway

[mrwoooooooo]

couple of butt hurt people -repping me for wanting to get rid of their pointless numbers :(

[e5]

that would encourage random users to -rep someone and say it happened on Habbo when it probably didnt.

I'm just going to come in to this thread and see what people think about this:

If people give -rep for stuff that hasn't happened on the forum and has happened on other services such as Habbo - How do we take judgement whether it is breaking the reputation rules? Or do you feel we should just leave them be...

[GoldenMerc]

that would encourage random users to -rep someone and say it happened on Habbo when it probably didnt.

why would you randomly -rep someone...

[Chippiewill]

couple of butt hurt people -repping me for wanting to get rid of their pointless numbers :(

You care that people -repped you despite the fact they're pointless numbers?

[MKR&*42]

If there's really gonna be a huge fuss about it branching out to Skype/MSN/Habbo etc. Then it really shouldn't be called "reputation". Otherwise, it should and -rep should only be removed if it's "bullying"/abuse etc. etc. (as said before a fair bit).

[mrwoooooooo]

You care that people -repped you despite the fact they're pointless numbers?

not quite sure which part of my post stated that i cared

[e5]

Because, if you have a hatred towards someone, you are likely to -rep for anything you feel you can, so using Habbo as the excuse means there is no proof of it actually happening.

why would you randomly -rep someone...

[Undesirable]

When did it get so petty with -rep? Why can't people just take it on the chin and move on?? The old days you got a -rep and didn't cry about it.. jesus. If folk bring Habbo issues on to the forum. They need to take a long hard look at themselves. It's a game and you need to get a grip. So why let it bother you enough.