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efq
22-11-2012, 03:02 AM
There are celebrations in Gaza as both sides reach an agreement to stop the violence after a week of bloodshed.
A ceasefire between Hamas and Israel has come into effect after eight days of violence that has left more than 140 Palestinians and five Israelis dead.
Egyptian foreign minister Mohamed Kamel Amr announced the breakthrough at a news conference in Cairo. The truce began at 7pm (UK time).
There was a last spasm of Palestinian rocket attacks and Israeli airstrikes just minutes before the deal came into effect.
After 7pm, people took to the streets of Gaza City to celebrate, with gunmen firing into the air and others setting off fireworks.

But the mood was more subdued in Israel. Speaking from Tel Aviv, Sky News defence correspondent David Bowden said: "The people I've been speaking to say: 'We will believe it when we see it. We've been here before and it eventually breaks down'."
He said in the city of Sderot - near the border between Israel and the Gaza Strip - there were reports of demonstrations against the ceasefire, with residents expressing disappointment at Israel's decision not to send ground troops across the border.
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has described the ceasefire agreement as "a critical moment for the region".
"Egypt's new government is assuming the responsibility and leadership that has long made this country a cornerstone of regional stability and peace," she said.
"The United States welcomes the agreement today for a ceasefire in Gaza. For it to hold the rocket attacks must end, a broader calm returned.

"The people of this region deserve the chance to live free from fear and violence, and today's agreement is step in the right direction that we should build on.
"Now we have to focus on reaching a durable outcome that promotes regional stability and advances the security, dignity and legitimate aspirations of Palestinians and Israelis alike."
Mrs Clinton pledged the US would continue to work with Egypt to consolidate the truce in the days ahead by improving conditions for the people of Gaza and providing security for Israelis.
According to reports, Israel and Hamas have agreed to an immediate halt in the violence. Israel will end its policy of assassinating top Hamas officials, while Hamas has promised to halt all rocket fire by the many militant groups operating in the Gaza Strip.
After a brief cooling off period, Israel has also pledged to ease its blockade of Gaza, though there have been no firm assurances on how that will be done. Israel has maintained the blockade since Hamas seized power of Gaza in 2007, though it has gradually lifted many of the restrictions.
UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon welcomed the truce, but said some details of the deal were yet to be agreed.

"We are encouraged and relieved that they have reached this ceasefire," Mr Ban said.
"There are still many details to be solidified for a durable ceasefire. I hope they will finalise these details as soon possible."
Moussa Abu Marzouk, a top Hamas official, said on his Facebook page that talks on a new border arrangement would begin after the 24-hour cooling off period.
The deal follows talks between Mr Amr, Mrs Clinton and Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi, who also sat down with Mr Ban separately to discuss the crisis.
Mr Ban also met with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to discuss the crisis.
Earlier, a bus bombing in the Israeli city of Tel Aviv that left at least 21 people wounded had threatened to derail the negotiations.
Moments after the deal was announced, an air-raid siren signalled a rocket attack in southern Israel, while an airstrike could be heard in Gaza.
Palestinian militants fired five rockets into the southern Israeli city of Beersheba. One rocket hit a house inside the city, police said. No injuries were reported.
In the last-minute burst of fire, Palestinian militants fired five rockets into the southern Israeli city of Beersheba. One rocket hit a house inside the city, police said. No injuries were reported.
Immediately after the announcement, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he had agreed to "give a chance" to the Egyptian-brokered agreement after speaking to US President Barack Obama.
A statement from his office said Mr Netanyahu "agreed to his recommendation to give a chance to an Egyptian proposal for a ceasefire and thereby give an opportunity for the stabilisation of the situation and a calming of it".
Mr Obama welcomed the move and said the United States would use the opportunity to intensify efforts to help Israel address its security needs, particularly the smuggling of weapons and explosives into Gaza, the White House said.
The US President also said he would seek more money for the Iron Dome defence system that has protected Israel from rocket attacks.

FlyingJesus
22-11-2012, 03:11 AM
Wow, people in ISRAEL are the ones doubting that the ceasefire will hold? Utterly ridiculous media representation of the situation, where Israel has been relentlessly attacking a country that doesn't even have its own army and then calling them terrorists when they shoot back with homemade weapons that aren't capable of doing a tenth of the damage. Fantastic that there's a ceasefire in effect for the moment but I can't help thinking that it's only been agreed to by Israel because of the threat of another war with Egypt, who have quite rightly been making noises in support of Palestine. Note that Israel were literally just about to send in a large land force to totally obliterate the area, yet they are somehow being hailed as the righteous ones in this conflict.

-:Undertaker:-
22-11-2012, 07:13 AM
I have to say that I am more or less backing Israel in this conflict. From what we've been told (and we are never told much, that is for sure) Israel has been bearing the brunt of rockets being fired from Palestine in the Hamas-controlled Gaza area - and as a sovereign state it has a right to defend itself and launch attacks back. If it were Hamas firing or if Hamas took a back seat then the targeting of the Hamas ledership in an air strike by Israel was completely justified.

I'd also say that from the picture I have of this conflict, that Israel would be right in launching a ground invasion - if their neighbour is unable to control it's own forces or has no suitable forces to contain the rockets being launched on Israel, then Israel has little choice. If rockets were being fired by groups on the coast of France and France was unable to do anything or purposely sat by - then a ground invasion of Brittany for example would be 100% justifiable.

An attack on sovereign territory merits action being taken strongly.

-:Undertaker:-
22-11-2012, 07:49 AM
Wow, people in ISRAEL are the ones doubting that the ceasefire will hold? Utterly ridiculous media representation of the situation, where Israel has been relentlessly attacking a country that doesn't even have its own army and then calling them terrorists when they shoot back with homemade weapons that aren't capable of doing a tenth of the damage. Fantastic that there's a ceasefire in effect for the moment but I can't help thinking that it's only been agreed to by Israel because of the threat of another war with Egypt, who have quite rightly been making noises in support of Palestine. Note that Israel were literally just about to send in a large land force to totally obliterate the area, yet they are somehow being hailed as the righteous ones in this conflict.

..just read this; http://order-order.com/2012/11/21/loony-labour-mps-echoes-of-galloway/, might be of interest in relation to the homemade weapons point.

xxMATTGxx
22-11-2012, 09:39 AM
Every country has the right to defend themselves. If you haven't also heard they also did a terrorist attack on a bus recently and people complain that Israel are firing missiles back?

Grig
22-11-2012, 10:16 AM
Every country has the right to defend themselves. If you haven't also heard they also did a terrorist attack on a bus recently and people complain that Israel are firing missiles back?

You have been brainwashed by a one-sided view. Western media never cover the whole story. Was analyzing this extensively in a journalism class earlier today :P.

xxMATTGxx
22-11-2012, 10:32 AM
You have been brainwashed by a one-sided view. Western media never cover the whole story. Was analyzing this extensively in a journalism class earlier today :P.

Sorry for listening to a person who was born in Israel, my bad.

-:Undertaker:-
22-11-2012, 10:33 AM
You have been brainwashed by a one-sided view. Western media never cover the whole story. Was analyzing this extensively in a journalism class earlier today :P.

Who fired first then and so on? I haven't really looked into this one and haven't seen RT (which usually gives the other side) so i'm interested to read about it. Any links or sources you know of on this? much appreciated if so.


Sorry for listening to a person who was born in Israel, my bad.

Since when did being born somewhere validate an opinion?

xxMATTGxx
22-11-2012, 10:35 AM
Who fired first then and so on? I haven't really looked into this one and haven't seen RT (which usually gives the other side) so i'm interested to read about it. Any links or sources you know of on this? much appreciated if so.



Since when did being born somewhere validate an opinion?

Never said it did. Grig assumed I looked at BBC news and left it at that.

---------- Post added 22-11-2012 at 10:40 AM ----------

I also actually don't see how my post makes me brainwashed. I only said every country has the right to defend themselves - Which they do... But whatever.

Inseriousity.
22-11-2012, 11:32 AM
Yes I'm a bit uneasy about the bias in the media coverage to start taking sides but a ceasefire is good news and I hope it lasts some distance before the inevitable breakdown.

Eric
22-11-2012, 11:38 AM
Ceasefire? Probably won't last long before they start attacking each other again.

wixard
22-11-2012, 12:01 PM
Never said it did. Grig assumed I looked at BBC news and left it at that.

---------- Post added 22-11-2012 at 10:40 AM ----------

I also actually don't see how my post makes me brainwashed. I only said every country has the right to defend themselves - Which they do... But whatever.

the bus story was ridiculous and shouldn't be anything to go by. Israel is the aggressor in this conflict

xxMATTGxx
22-11-2012, 12:20 PM
Doesn't make the Hamas any better than Israel lmao.

wixard
22-11-2012, 01:05 PM
what because their military leaders death was videoed and posted online whilst they were also being threatened and you expect them not to react... okay then

xxMATTGxx
22-11-2012, 01:09 PM
what because their military leaders death was videoed and posted online whilst they were also being threatened and you expect them not to react... okay then

Hamas are hardly innocent let's be honest here. I'm not saying Israel is either but yeah.

DaveTaylor
22-11-2012, 07:07 PM
First of all the missles Hamas use are not Home made, they are supplied by Iran, if you want evidence of this there is loads online since this conflict began. Mainly the fijar-5 rocket. Second of all Hamas wants to get rid of Israel completely, it does not see it at all, as with Israel they have no problem with there being a Palestine, they just want it peaceful. People claim Israel are the terrorists in this, I don't see how considering the fact that Hamas use the public as human shields, Israel can only pinpoint locations with terrorists in them and can't sadly make the bomb hurt only the people who are terrorists. Israel have already said that this mission was a failure due to the amount of people hurt, that's not what they want.

The act of terrorism was from Hamas, shooting 1500+ rockets over with the 100% aim of killing innocent people who are general public. IF israel really wanted to hurt the public, it wouldn't be difficult, they could have quite easily bombarded all locations and not stopped over at least 10-15 air raids whilst the public where moving. There are also several images online showing why Hamas do not need to fire from Gaza City as they have plenty of land they can use in the South that is open and free to fire from. The problem will this is there will always be more causalities on the Gaza side of things because of the difference on technology and army etc. I just want you too ask you a question here, lets say Iron Dome hadn't managed to get those 500+ rockets and they actually landed on the houses they were on purposely aimed for, do you really think the injury toll would have been the same? I certainly do not, considering it is after all 200lb war head. People are allowed their own opinions, do not get me wrong, Israel aren't always right, but when you have a group of people wanting to rid you from the world and aim at people who are just living their daily life, you defend in every way you can, and before someone goes people of Gaza were going about their daily life, several attempts where made to move them on whilst operations were going on leaflets, aid trucks crossing the bordering etc.

---------- Post added 22-11-2012 at 07:10 PM ----------

Here is a photo that shows evidence of how hard it is for Israel not to hit the public when they do not listen to Israel requesting them too move on:
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/israel111612/s_r02_61606637.jpg
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/israel111612/s_r26_RTR3AFPF.jpg
Another one here as people claim Gaza is the most densely populated place in the world, it's horse ****:
http://www.cija.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Infographic-Population-Density.jpg

FlyingJesus
22-11-2012, 07:13 PM
If people want to talk about who shot first let's talk about how Israel is an illegal nation placed on stolen land that's only survived because America arms and finances them

DaveTaylor
22-11-2012, 07:25 PM
If people want to talk about who shot first let's talk about how Israel is an illegal nation placed on stolen land that's only survived because America arms and finances them
I always love this dig, because there is nothing illegal about it... the land was declared for Israel..... Palestine was formed between the 1914-1918 but it was never actually declared land of Palestine, look up the British Mandate if you want too follow all this up. It was british owned, and then when the British pulled out it became Israel, the British declared the land as "Palestine" but it was never their land, it was british. Also American arms, a lot of the weaponary is Israeli designed and made, and if you want to question the finance stuff, all I need to say is Intel processors and medicine for South Africa.

-:Undertaker:-
22-11-2012, 07:39 PM
If people want to talk about who shot first let's talk about how Israel is an illegal nation placed on stolen land that's only survived because America arms and finances them

Whether it was illegal or not or right or wrong, it's happened (history) just as the Normans invaded England and the Spanish invaded the Inca Empire.

But as for the financing, America also finances (much more) the enemies of Israel, indeed Israel is entirely self sufficent nowadays.

FlyingJesus
22-11-2012, 08:48 PM
Let's not ever support the freedom of anyone since the attacks of their oppressors have happened in history

-:Undertaker:-
22-11-2012, 09:23 PM
Let's not ever support the freedom of anyone since the attacks of their oppressors have happened in history

Well then whats the solution? where and at what time is the line drawn at? Israel isn't going anywhere so i'd suggest both sides come to realise this (ie Hamas) and come to a two state solution or integrate Palestine into the Jordanian Kingdom and Gaza into Egypt.

But the fact is that it seems many in Palestine simply don't want to move onwards and carry on in a way that would be comparable that if we carried on at the French for them taking Brittney off England 500 years ago. I know this is more recent and more raw, but what else can be done? .. and yes Israel has done many terrible things i'll also admit, such as the expansion of settlements and so on so both sides are often in the wrong before i'm accused of pro-Israel blindness. I'd add that I don't think it's the business of anyone but the Palestinians and Israel, but the solution above (two state or annexation, final border) seems the only realistic one.

Lee
22-11-2012, 10:02 PM
Positive news, hope it lasts long enough to come to a more long term agreement.

zwind
24-11-2012, 03:33 PM
I find this hypocritical,
Everyone is saying about how Israel and Gaza should have cease-fires. While for the last decade, America has been at war on
terrorism. If infact that people want the "violence in the middle-east" to end, then why are they not getting onto America for just as much bloodshed? (this is even coming from an American).

Plus I fully support Israel in this conflict. Though a devote Christian I support and believe what Israel is fighting for is right.
Through all time the Jewish people have been fighting for their home in Palestine (now Israel). They had been removed from
their homeland millenniums ago. Everywhere they went they were treated poorly. They were slaves in other parts of the middle east. They were murdered in Death Camps at the hands of the Third Reich. Even in other times people hated jews.
Everywhere from Europe to America, Jews were hated and seen as inferior. Now given the chance to live back in their
homeland in 1948, they wan't to not let it go again.

Also to those who take Palestine's side, there are no middle eastern countries that want Palestinians because of their nature.

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