President Obama proposes raising the minimum wage to $9 an hour

[-:Undertaker:-]

President Obama proposes raising the minimum wage to $9 an hour

In the State of the Union address last week, President Obama proposed raising the minimum wage to $9 an hour. Now, good some might think - it'll help people, right? well wrong, as the video below explains in a light fashion.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jJQJRKnu2I

She does quite a few videos on different topics, and just thought some may find them interesting as to why certain do-gooder ideas are actually bad when you analyse them and the results. Anywho, if you're interested/want your opinion challenged then its worth a watch.

[Chippiewill]

Raising the minimum wage would be an issue if the only people on minimum wage are teenagers. Minimum wage jobs are intended as stepping stones to jobs with a wage required for living on.

Unfortunately far too many people who are financially independent (aka not getting money from parents) are stuck on minimum wage jobs which is far BELOW that required to meet various payments and to generally survive on with any kind of reasonable hours worked per day.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Raising the minimum wage would be an issue if the only people on minimum wage are teenagers. Minimum wage jobs are intended as stepping stones to jobs with a wage required for living on.

Unfortunately far too many people who are financially independent (aka not getting money from parents) are stuck on minimum wage jobs which is far BELOW that required to meet various payments and to generally survive on with any kind of reasonable hours worked per day.

Because the government takes it away from them in taxes. It's a self-defeating cycle. :P

It's also the case that there's such a number of older people on low wages because it took them so long to move from job to job when younger purely because of the restrictions imposed by the minimum wage. For example, rather than a teenager training on $1.50 and learning valuable skills at age 16, he's say on social security until he's 20 when he finally finds a job... that's 4 years worth of experience wasted because of the barrier created via the minimum wage. Again, the self-defeating cycle.

[Chippiewill]

Because the government takes it away from them in taxes. It's a self-defeating cycle. :P
Well Obama would like to raise taxes on the rich and lower them for the poor..

---------- Post added 20-02-2013 at 08:57 PM ----------


that's 4 years worth of experience wasted because of the barrier created via the minimum wage. Again, the self-defeating cycle.
They can still take an unpaid intern-ship.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well Obama would like to raise taxes on the rich and lower them for the poor..

Would he? I have seen no evidence of that other than his cheap rhetoric. And besides, even if you did do that - it still would still hurt the poor as hurting the rich consquently hurts the poor. The type of people who support 'Robin Hood' or Obama type taxes are the kind of people who have the illusion that wealthy people stuff their pillows full of cash and sit on it - they don't, it goes into banking/investments which in turn create possibilites for the poorest and middle classes.

Without wealthy people you don't have an economy.


They can still take an unpaid intern-ship.

I'd rather they have a job and learn skills rather than the state subsidising big business with the unemployed working for no cost to the business - other than to the taxpayer that is.

[Chippiewill]

it still would still hurt the poor as hurting the rich consquently hurts the poor. The type of people who support 'Robin Hood' or Obama type taxes are the kind of people who have the illusion that wealthy people stuff their pillows full of cash and sit on it - they don't, it goes into banking/investments which in turn create possibilites for the poorest and middle classes.

Without wealthy people you don't have an economy.

http://www.mrctv.org/videos/ed-asner-narrates-tax-rich-animated-fairy-tale

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.mrctv.org/videos/ed-asner-narrates-tax-rich-animated-fairy-tale

Flawed cartoon video based on broad generalisations, I can't even begin to debunk it. If your political philosophy is based on a cartoon video with those basic flaws, then that's alright by me. But I favour theories based in history and fact, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_business_cycle_theory. I will just pick up on a few points though and the one with the next to it I really do advise a watch as it's one of those 'aha' moments,

- The video states that rich people 'suddenly bought up the newspapers' .. er, wealthy people have always owned and operated newspapers from day one. The investment required makes that a fact of life. When did this sudden buy up of newspapers take place? what year?

* The video then goes on about the myth of eventually ending up rich. Actually, it's true that most people do end up in the higher end income brackets at some point or other, as explained by Thomas Sowell here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti5oDnk__1M) (here he tackles the classic income gap/equality argument).

- The point on the teachers and public sector 'blame' - well, although the banking bailout debt did add on to the debt, it's a false argument as public sector debt overwhelmingly comes from state overspending on bad education/healthcare etc. Check for example, UK, Greek or US debt before the 2008 crisis.

- I would agree with the video though where it talks of the government bailing out the banks and the '1%' - that of course relates back to the Austrian Business Cycle. And guess who is one of the worst culprits of bailing out banks and printing money? the Obama administration, the same administration that bailed out GM and the corrupt banking sector.

[JerseySafety]

Wow, only just realised that the minimum wage is below $9USD? Thats crazy, I thought our minimum wage was low ($13.50NZD) which is like $11.20USD.

Anyways, minimum wage jobs aren't really intended for you to stay at your whole life, they are for you to get started with a career. Really don't see any point in raising the minimum wage.

[peteyt]

It's a tricky thing that has problems both ways. You don't want to put the minimum wage too high and stop people getting employed but if you don't have a minimum wage employers could abuse staff.

[The Don]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRgmC7Pa9dA&NR

[Chippiewill]

Whilst the guy raises a number of valid points. I am sick of people who do these kinds of responses with a sarcastic, smug attitude as if they're infallible. If they want to be taken seriously they need to drop the **** humor which makes them look like ***** and

a) Not make a straw man
b) Accept where the failings are in their argument and then how to solve those failings AND THEN point out the failings in the solutions and so on.

otherwise it's worse than the original video which presented a one sided argument.

[The Don]

Whilst the guy raises a number of valid points. I am sick of people who do these kinds of responses with a sarcastic, smug attitude as if they're infallible. If they want to be taken seriously they need to drop the **** humor which makes them look like ***** and

a) Not make a straw man
b) Accept where the failings are in their argument and then how to solve those failings AND THEN point out the failings in the solutions and so on.

otherwise it's worse than the original video which presented a one sided argument.

The video it is responding to has an extremely sarcastic and smug tone which justifies the equally smug and sarcastic response. I've watched numerous videos since linking that one, could you please point out which part of the video you're directing point a towards.

Admittedly, he didn't offer any solutions to the problem however the video achieves its sole purpose, which is to debunk the original video.

---------- Post added 22-02-2013 at 03:49 AM ----------


Whilst the guy raises a number of valid points. I am sick of people who do these kinds of responses with a sarcastic, smug attitude as if they're infallible. If they want to be taken seriously they need to drop the **** humor which makes them look like ***** and

a) Not make a straw man
b) Accept where the failings are in their argument and then how to solve those failings AND THEN point out the failings in the solutions and so on.

otherwise it's worse than the original video which presented a one sided argument.

The video it is responding to has an extremely sarcastic and smug tone which justifies the equally smug and sarcastic response. I've watched numerous videos since linking that one, could you please point out which part of the video you're directing point a towards.

Admittedly, he didn't offer any solutions to the problem however the video achieves its sole purpose, which is to debunk the original video.

[-:Undertaker:-]

- On gathering the number, erm why is he comparing it to the United Kingdom? the United Kingdom is a totally different economy, with a different currency strength and is barely comparable in terms of having a 'living wage'. Let us say Obama did propose a federal minimum wage on the basis of the British example - the problems America would face would be even worse than we have here with the divide between London and say, Liverpool. If it is double to live in London (or New York) than it is to say Liverpool (or New Orleans) then the city you hurt the most are those in the poorer ones.. as business in those cities simply cannot afford to pay the wage level that is offered in the likes of London and New York.

- On the minimum wage preventing people getting jobs, erm yes it's well established that it does. This clown seems to think that wages will rise in line with economic growth - absolutely not true and never has been the case for the numbers of reasons spanning from the influx of migrant workers keeping the low wage down and the shift of 'native' Americans and Britons away from low level jobs (such as field picking) and towards more skilled jobs. So thats just one example of why a wage wouldn't rise in line with economic growth.

- On the study side, they're both wrong. Well, Julie is actually correct in that a minimum wage does hamper economic growth because using your brain to see that business = profit and the less paid to one person means more paid to another is basic common sense. But as for the comparison between states, its a totally dud argument. You cannot simply base the statistics on how the minimum wage has performed based on purely economic growth - you have to look at youth unemployment figures (which are dodgy in themselves anyway as most are kept on work schemes to keep them off it). I don't know the validity of this graph (http://av.r.ftdata.co.uk/files/2011/08/UK-youth-unemployment-IFS-via-LSE-politics-and-policy.jpg), but it's an example of since the 1999 wage law was brought in, youth unemployment bucked the trend and went up in a pace never seen before. Check the youth unemployment history across Europe and you'll see the same pattern.

- On the 'fake scenario', er so he has nothing to say on a valid proposition? what if somebody is that desperate for a job and doesn't want to sit on benefits, but a business owner cannot afford to take him or her on because the minimum wage is too high for their skill level. What then? Milton Friedman makes the point better than I can here.. it's basic economics.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8Z__o52sk

Or, forgive me for two videos (but its only very short), here's Thomas Sowell on the minimum wage.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4SIEl1j8e4

- Julie make the assertion that a rise in the minimum wage results in lay off, and he disputes this. Now, use common sense again rather than his smug and smarmy attitude. If a business (like many today), usually small to medium sized, is struggling to keep itself in the green and is trying to weather the storm - what are the options is has? well, one common response of a business is, rather than lay off staff.. the staff are requested to agree to a wage reduction for the time being to keep the company in the positive. Now, if you have a minimum wage and most people are say on that minimum wage in your company - that option is then closed for you. So you then are faced with the choice of individual lay offs or allowing the business go to the wall; the business owner obviously has to choose to lay people off. I mean, duh.

I saw this comment on the Friedman video and I feel it's a good response to his last snippet where he says 'read the studies and think when you come to vote, and that the minimum wage ought to be raised as Obama proposes' - well, what if this happens? and why doesn't it happen? I mean, raising the minimum wage doesn't affect jobs right? so what would be the harm?


amagilly 1 week ago

Obama is suggesting an increase in the minimum wage to $9/hr.

As a thought experiment, what would be the sequence of events that might occur if Rand Paul were to counter with a proposal of $72/hr?

I replied to the 'Monarchy debunking video' and debunked that Don, i've replied to this. And i'd appreciate a reply this time from you. :P I'd be most open to debating the merits of labor laws in general if you want, using mainly the cases of India and China from the 1940s onwards. It's clear cut, basic economics. Indeed, it's because India is a 'democracy' (where people vote themselves goodies) that it's far behind China. It'd be interesting to hear what you have to say on that provocative statement.