Imagine you wake up and find yourself as Prime Minister..

[-:Undertaker:-]

Scenario: you suddenly wake up as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom...


http://www.habboxwiki.com/wiki/images/5/5b/Debate3bgGOVT.png

Imagine you suddenly find yourself as Prime Minister, sitting behind the desk of Number 10. Your ministers ask what three policies or areas of policy matter most to you and which direction the government should take on them. What is your reply and why? and what direction do your policies go in? do you for example want more public spending, or less? ... simply list the three policies you would like to see put into action and briefly explain why. Ideas on policies can be found in the word cloud above.

....and which political party or leader most closely represents your views on these policies? do you side with David Cameron more on foreign policy than you do Ed Miliband, or do you side more with Nick Clegg on the issue of the EU rather than Nigel Farage?


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The debate is open to you, and by all means feel free to question others and debate!

[Chippiewill]

Welp this section is dead, somewhat.

Immigration
EU can go **** itself, they stop getting special treatment. I don't mind an easier time for holiday makers but we don't want people arriving and not doing anything for the rest of their lives
You can't enter for longer than a month unless you've already got a job that can't be filled by someone already in the UK.
If you lose your job within a year and stay jobless for more than three months you'll be deported. We don't want (or need for that matter) you here.
Benefits after a year minimum of paying taxes.

Benefits
Benefits are useful and sensible in some cases, but lets be honest a single parent earning over £30k post-tax doesn't need child benefits.

Defence
Unlike (For some reason) warmongering UKIP who want to increase defence (Can we really call it that) spending lets have a pretty severe cut back, I like having a navy and airforce for defence but we really have little use for an Army. Let's get back to defence and instigate some pretty severe cuts across the boards, especially Army spending.
Let's also stop the overseas wars we're not even affected by, let America deal with that since they appear to be having so much fun

Healthcare
State issued health insurance, people can either have that or get the money put towards private health insurance (But they must have insurance).
No state run hospitals, pretty swift privatisation of the NHS with an advisory setup to ensure fair pricing.

EU
British MEPs required to attend their committees and meetings. This includes Nigel Farage who seems not to attend the EU fisheries committee. Any british MEP who doesn't attend is not eligible for re-election and can be arrested for treason.
Referendum, obviously. STV: In, partially out or Out.

Voting/Parliamentary Reforms
Pretty severe restructuring here, lots of inspiration from everywhere, including the US:

House of Lords restructured into a voted in fully proportional representation group. Parties are voted for and every vote across the UK is worth the same as every other. Every member serves a term of 6 years, with a third up for re-election every 2 years. (Like the senate). Idea being all the members represent experts who know what are best for the country as a whole.

House of Commons restructured into an entirely party-less population. No party endorsements, funding etc. allowed. The members of the commons are voted for by their local communities and serve to represent the views of their local community, not a party, alone. All candidates elected via STV. Every member is up for re-election every 2 years. (Like the House). Idea being that all the members represent the views of their local community.

Prime Minister voted in fully independent of the houses, in order to prevent people voting for MPs who get them the PM they want. Up for re-election every six years and voted in via STV. Must be an MP in either house to be eligible.

MPs only get paid when they do their job, if you don't turn up then you won't get paid or potentially you'll just get kicked out. In order to get smarter people to become MPs the salary is vastly increased. If you turn up to everything you can earn £500,000 PA. Turn up to half the stuff you only earn £20,000 PA

Justice System]
A dose of utility here. Let's base sentencing on what it'll actually achieve if someone has a mental disability which caused them to do something then let's solve the problem rather than issuing 'justice' for justice sake. If they're incapable of empathy or whatever then 10 years in prison isn't going to do much to help them.

Prisons need to be sorted out. Prisons should not be a burden. If a prisoner works particularly hard and earns a surplus for the prison/government then they can earn that in savings.

Education
Less sweeping reforms every five years (Or however often the parliament changes hands), the government is no longer allowed to tamper with it every five seconds, teachers and schools are given time to get used to the new system.

Top end of education restructured:
All students educated to 18 in some capacity.
Most intelligent taught in a university/industry centric and dictated system (aka a-levels)
Many taught in an Apprenticeship Centric system
The rest taught in a life-skill centric system

Schools ranked based on performance in all three categories


Students taught together by ability, not age. If you're 16 and you read like a 12 year old then you'll be doing English lessons with 12 year olds. In addition to this higher-end students naturally get taught at different schools with different aims from lower-end students.

Ofsted inspections retooled as a treatment, not a diagnosis for bad schools. Exam/assessment performance is more important than ofsted's idea of a good lesson.

Workers Rights
Small companies minimum wage removed.

Gender equality laws removed where they don't make sense. Best person for the job, if gender equality means someone less fit for the job has to be picked then it's not a reasonable requirement. For example if a woman is not physically capable of some of the demands of the job then it makes no sense to hire them to meet gender equality requirements such as a 5'6 female police officer ain't doing much to a 6'6 mugger, then again neither is a 5'6 male police officer. In kind a male police officer is not appropriate for first response trauma support of female victims in situations like rape. At the same time a company cannot get away with for instance firing all female employees without reasonable justification, if they're fit for the job and doing it to the same standard then it's unlawful.

Maternity/Paternity leave - Mother and Father both receive a shared pool of 700 days of leave from work to be used over the first five years (And three months before) the child's birth. If the father wants to care for the child whilst the mother returns to work then that's absolutely ok.

Energy
Obsession with renewable fuels like Solar and Wind abolished, Fission plants are very safe at present and even release less radiation per joule of energy than a coal plant. At the same time the government should invest in research into Fusion energy.

Taxation
Simplify it. Past COST OF REASONABLE LIVING you get taxed from 10% (or whatever is required) on a sliding scale (No brackets) up to 40% (or whatever is sensible) based entirely on your income. That's income tax. Once you add VAT there's no more tax, at least for people. Now it's less complex and people know what they need to pay. No need to tax people more when their parents die and leave them money, it's not the government's money to begin with.

Fines
Speeding/parking/yellow-box fines should not be a profit making venture and money made through this should go towards awareness campaigns etc. Councils should not be using it to rake in £1m plus a year.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Broadly agree with the list you've provided, sounds to me like the UKIP manifesto but on steroids in some places. I would just pick up on three points though which i'm guessing you put in to challenge me, and challenge accepted. :P

Disagree vastly on constitutional reforms though.


This includes Nigel Farage who seems not to attend the EU fisheries committee.

I don't know why this is constantly picked up upon by worried Tory critics, including the fact UKIP do have low attendance in the EU Parliament - the party isn't there to be outvoted every single time on meaningless pieces of legislation like tractor seat standardisation, it's there purely to wage a national campaign against our membership. I know when I went to the NW Regional Conference, Farage had to leave immediately after his speech as he had other media/public speaking meetings on the same day - I heard he clocks up miles and miles travelling to media engagement and public meetings (http://www.ukip.org/content/latest-news/2997-nigel-farage-the-common-sense-tour).

Not to be a party lackie or anything, just I think critics underestimate how much personal time he puts into this.


Referendum, obviously. STV: In, partially out or Out.

Doesn't quite make sense as the treaties all state that ever closer union is the intended destination, so the choice is either we remove ourselves from the project or we continue on the road to deeper integration and eventual national dissolution of the nation state.


Unlike (For some reason) warmongering UKIP who want to increase defence (Can we really call it that) spending lets have a pretty severe cut back, I like having a navy and airforce for defence but we really have little use for an Army. Let's get back to defence and instigate some pretty severe cuts across the boards, especially Army spending.

Do we not? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories - mainly the job of a blue water navy and a nuclear capacity I know, but we would still need some sort of fit army to go in and take back these colonial territories, ie the Falklands being a prime example.

I would agree on a freeze to MoD spending though, and I think that's what the UKIP policy is morphing into as opposed to the ridiculous 40% increase policy they had at the 2010 General Election - I know Godfrey Bloom has stated that the ideal would be to squeeze any desired 'increases' out of savings in the existing budget as the MoD is notorious for wasteful spending.

[Chippiewill]

I don't know why this is constantly picked up upon by worried Tory critics, including the fact UKIP do have low attendance in the EU Parliament - the party isn't there to be outvoted every single time on meaningless pieces of legislation like tractor seat standardisation, it's there purely to wage a national campaign against our membership. I know when I went to the NW Regional Conference, Farage had to leave immediately after his speech as he had other media/public speaking meetings on the same day - I heard he clocks up miles and miles travelling to media engagement and public meetings (http://www.ukip.org/content/latest-news/2997-nigel-farage-the-common-sense-tour). I suppose in a similar way I shouldn't vote for UKIP in an election they likely won't win?




Doesn't quite make sense as the treaties all state that ever closer union is the intended destination, so the choice is either we remove ourselves from the project or we continue on the road to deeper integration and eventual national dissolution of the nation state.
Barely anyone is for fully out. No point doing a referendum for something people don't want.



Do we not? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories - mainly the job of a blue water navy and a nuclear capacity I know, but we would still need some sort of fit army to go in and take back these colonial territories, ie the Falklands being a prime example.You can only fit so many people onto an island. Far fewer strategically.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I suppose in a similar way I shouldn't vote for UKIP in an election they likely won't win?

I don't quite see the logic there.

Look, the EU Parliament is a largely powerless body (hence why Thatcher refuse to call it a parliament, instead using the word assembly). Farage and co could sit there and vote on the endless stream of regulation that the Commission proposes and the 'parliament passes' - and lose every time as the Conservatives, Labour and Liberal Democrats vote for more integration (despite what they say back home to us all) or they could do what they do now; make speeches to get the message out, and campaign back home with public meetings and media interviews.

The way the debate has changed in this country, we know which method has been successful.


Barely anyone is for fully out. No point doing a referendum for something people don't want.

And there's also no point in holding a referendum on an option that isn't on the table. In an in/out referendum (the only referendum possible, as negotiation is meaningless) the out side constantly wins the polling - those demanding 'partial withdrawal' are duped by Tory promises of 'in Europe but not run by Europe' and it's total hogwash as proven by the record of history.

I've been over it many times, the ultimate question is; do you want a federal or united Europe or remain independent? simple as that.

[GommeInc]

It would be against EU law to negotiate our membership as you're either in or out. You cannot say "we'll stay in but we won't follow the laws regarding immigration" as it is simply against EU law (and to some extent, English law) to do this as it requires the full consent of the European Union AND many Treaties will need to be abolished, which is again against the law as the Treaties explicitly state that the whole point of the EU Project is increased integration, referencing key policies such as movement of people, goods and services.

If the UK can magic up a new, worth while European Organisation which allows for free trade agreements, then leaving the EU would be a good idea - but it would be potentially damaging to leave the EU immediately with the knowledge that we will not have a say in many key areas and we would essentially being go back to square one with how we move around with our closest neighbours. Plus the markets would go insane, through their own ignorance.

[Chippiewill]

It would be against EU law to negotiate our membership as you're either in or out. You cannot say "we'll stay in but we won't follow the laws regarding immigration" as it is simply against EU law. They can't exactly put a country in jail.

[GommeInc]

They can't exactly put a country in jail.
No, but they can fine them heavily and give them a damn good talking to. Other than, sweet sod all happens :P

[Chippiewill]

No, but they can fine them heavily and give them a damn good talking to. Other than, sweet sod all happens :P

You only have to pay the fines if you want to.

[GommeInc]

You only have to pay the fines if you want to.
However, by not paying a fine you're just annoying other Member States which can have other consequences relating to trust, which could affect trade and communication. That rarely happens though, hence the sod all happens.

However, the point still stands - you can either be in or out of the EU. If you negotiate certain areas e.g. immigration and other Member States do not agree that a change is necessary, then you just have to live with it and put up with a mark next to your name, or just leave the EU. Saying that though, the EU doesn't seem to notice changes to immigration as they have let the Danish beef up their borders with little consequences. All in all, the EU has it's hands busy at the moment with Cyprus, Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy leaving it confused :P

[Chippiewill]

Saying that though, the EU doesn't seem to notice changes to immigration as they have let the Danish beef up their borders with little consequences. All in all, the EU has it's hands busy at the moment with Cyprus, Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy leaving it confused :P

Exactly my point, if I just tell them that's what I'm doing, then do it and ignore any fines etc. on the matter then they're not really going to start wasting their time getting all upset at me when they have bigger fish to fry.

[GommeInc]

Exactly my point, if I just tell them that's what I'm doing, then do it and ignore any fines etc. on the matter then they're not really going to start wasting their time getting all upset at me when they have bigger fish to fry.
Problem with that is the trust issue. Would the markets approve of winding up the EU? The US have mixed opinions over the EU and our membership (not that they should, but the global economy is a mixed bag lately). Plus as one of the largest contributors to the EU there's a chance that the Commission/Council/ECJ would probably take the time to moan at us.

I quite like your idea though - it would be interesting just to ignore the EU and create a useful border agency to see what happens. As an island nation we're physically isolated and have different opinions and views over social policies which can be attractive compared to those abroad which are competing directly with each other.

Chucking an idea out there for the sake of debate:

If I was PM I would probably want to opt out of EU entirely, while possibly thinking about making an organisation similar to the EU, but with less costs involved and less demand for integration. There are some certainly promising areas of the EU such as the free movement of goods, services and people, but they take away national identity of each product and country involved.