Local Elections 2013

[Kardan]

Just a thread to discuss the election results that will come in over the next few hours. The first result is in of the South Shields by-election, formerly held by David Milliband and Labour, won again by Labour, but UKIP came 2nd with 24%, Conservatives 3rd and the Lib Dems in a low 7th...

Looks like UKIP are looking quite decent from the first result... Let's see if it continues.

[Kardan]

I must say I'm quite shocked UKIP has done this well across much of the country. People may be protest voting now, but I think for the general election they should be considered a threat now, of course, that's the real test for UKIP now. Wouldn't surprise me if the conservatives decide to move towards that EU referendum a bit quicker now :P

Also, I remember discussing whether Farage should be given a spot during the election TV debates, back then I would have said no, but there's not much argument against giving him a place anymore.

As much as it pains me to say, well done UKIP :P Still not got the results from my county yet :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2318751/UKIP-march-Nigel-Farage-hails-wave-protest-sweeping-country-party-makes-big-gains-council-elections.html

UKIP on the march: Nigel Farage hails 'wave of protest' sweeping the country as his party makes big gains in council elections

- UK Independence Party win 42 seats (still more to come through) in early council election results
- UKIP averaging around 26% across the country so far
- Farage says party has triumphed despite being 'abused' by main parties
- Conservatives lose control in Lincolnshire after UKIP take 16 seats
- Gloucestershire out of Tory control after Labour, UKIP and Lib Dem gains
- Ousted Tory councillors attack 'arrogant, out of touch' government
- Tory chairman Grant Shapps says 'we failed to get our message out'
- Government planning benefit curbs for immigrants to win back support


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/03/article-2318751-199A57E3000005DC-621_634x480.jpg
Mr Farage said the 'wave of protest' sweeping the country was long-lasting and predicted a UKIP MP in a marginal seat

Some pretty good pictures and graphics on that page, mainly of UKIP winning candidates.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/03/article-2318751-199968A8000005DC-166_634x400.jpg
UKIP supporters celebrate after Colin Guyton (second right) wins a seat on Gloucestershire County Council

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/03/article-2318751-199A897B000005DC-777_634x540.jpg

UKIP have now passed the 50 mark my Twitter feed tells me, lots more councils to declare over this afternoon so it'll be a pretty slow day getting the results. Interesting side note that a distant relative of Guy Fawkes (Phillip Fawkes) has won his seat for UKIP. :P

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2318651/Labour-holds-David-Milibands-South-Shields-seat-UKIP-come-second-election-Lib-Dems-lose-deposit-humiliating-SEVENTH-place.html

South Shields (David Milibands former seat) by-election results:

Labour 50.4%
UKIP 24.2% (didn't stand in 2010 here either)
Conservative 11.5%
Independent 5.4%
Independent Socialist Party 3.0%
BNP 2.9%
Liberal Democrats 1.4%
Monster Raving Loony 0.8%
Independent 0.2%

I'll post more as it comes through later. I have to say though, I love how the Tory Party is saying "we didnt get the message out properly" - as the comments on the articles say, no Mr. Shapps you did - just we don't like the message. :P

I also saw one Tory boy on my feed comment how if this was translated into a General Election it would result in 'only' a Labour majority of 4 - something the Tories couldn't even manage in 2010 despite not winning an election since 1992, despite having a supportive press attack Gordon Browns character, despite being against a tired government of 13 years.


http://www.iaza.com/work/130503C/iaza17517910293900.png

[AgnesIO]

Been keeping a close eye on this.

As I said yesterday, the real test will be the general election. Certainly an interesting set of results, looking forward to comparing UKIP and the Lib Dems later after the next 17 results are declared.

Seen a few Conservatives calling for a leadership election quickly, so they can choose someone to guide them to the next election.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Results still slowly coming in, UKIP over the 70 seats mark so far.

Interesting reading that the three council divisions in former Tory leader Michael Howard's constituency fell to UKIP, and that in Witney Central (Witney being the seat of David Cameron) the Tories came third, with UKIP second and Labour taking the seat.

Former Conservative MEP and former Chair of the Welsh Conservatives defects to UKIP - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-22399978

UKIP also hold their only county council Ramsey with 67% of the vote.


James Kirkup ‏@jameskirkup 1m

That new Conservative line-to-take on UKIP: We respect and admire fruitcakes and racists, because they want what we want.

[Kardan]

My division results had a Conservative gain from Lib Dems who came 2nd, Labour 3rd, BNP 4th.

My girlfriends division had a UKIP gain from Conservative and UKIP had never run there before.

Leicestershire as a whole is a conservative hold.

[Chippiewill]

One thing that I've noticed from today is that Nigel Farage's smile is very creepy.

Congratulations to UKIP and it's pretty bad that Lib Dems got beat by BNP in the south shields election.

[-:Undertaker:-]

UKIP now on 144 councillors elected as of 5 o'clock, waiting for more results to come through.


15.50 Ukip has seen 117 councillors elected, of which 110 are gains, with 4 councils to declare. It has 634 second place candidates and only 32 candidates polling under 10 per cent, according to a Ukip spokesman.

Also read somewhere that its the first Local election or national election where the three 'main' parties have all polled under 30%. Something like that.

My favourite moment came out just before though, where it turns out (if anybody remembers) that Amy Rutland Labour girl who was on Question Time in the audience a few months ago and labelled UKIP and Diane James 'disgusting' - she's been beaten into third place in her ward and guess who won the ward? :P the purples.


More than 1,000,000 votes cast for UKIP.

Worth bearing in mind they got around 920,000 in the 2010 General Election - and that election was national, this one was confined to the English shires.


Where UKIP and Lib Dems both standing, we are 175,000 votes ahead of them.

Where UKIP and Labour both standing, we are 165,000 votes ahead of them.

[Chippiewill]

"Cameron on UKIP: 'No good insulting party people have chosen'" - bit of a spin around by the Conservatives
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22404562

[GommeInc]

Amazing results. UKIP came second in my area, and the Conservatives only just won it. Good on UKIP. The real test is the General Election, and given these results I think Farage must be involved in the Leader Debates closer the time. If anything, the Lib Dem Leader should be kicked out as they're hardly worth voting for these days.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Final post on results as all councils have now declared, more can be found here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2013

By popular vote

29% Labour (538 seats)
25% Conservatives (1,136 seats)
23% UKIP (147 seats)
14% Liberal Democrats (353 seats)

Judging by those figures, I reckon had the Kippers stood the same amount of seats as Labour and the Tories - they could have topped the poll.

[MKR&*42]

Conservatives held in Wiltshire again with 2/3 of the results :P Only 1 UKIP seat here for general curiosity.

Amazing to see how many seats UKIP have gained though overall.

[AgnesIO]

UKIP gained 9 seats here, although Conservatives still have a HUGE majority, and won my division too. The other close division to me got the Green party hahahahaha

Looking forward to two years time (**** I'm sad...) - will be interesting to see how UKIP do when it really matters, and honestly I think the Conservatives will regain votes where it counts. Not dnying what an undeniably embarrassing set of events it has been though.

Does seem odd voting UKIP now, when I doubt a single one of the people who did (ok, except Dan!) could tell me their policies on transport and education etc (ie. what these elections are about).

[MKR&*42]

Does seem odd voting UKIP now, when I doubt a single one of the people who did (ok, except Dan!) could tell me their policies on transport and education etc (ie. what these elections are about).

I reckon the same could have been said for the previous general election don't you think? I reckon most people only voted Conservative (even though it wasn't a majority) in the previous election because they thought they would be able to get us out of the financial mess labour supposedly dug us into and not down to their policies :P

I actually do wonder how many people check the policies for parties before they vote.

[AgnesIO]

I reckon the same could have been said for the previous general election don't you think? I reckon most people only voted Conservative (even though it wasn't a majority) in the previous election because they thought they would be able to get us out of the financial mess labour supposedly dug us into and not down to their policies :P

I actually do wonder how many people check the policies for parties before they vote.

Well 54% of people did vote in the last election with the economy being one of their three most important things.

The economy is HUGE part of the General Election, but Europe has nothing to do with county elections :L

[MKR&*42]

Well 54% of people did vote in the last election with the economy being one of their three most important things.

The economy is HUGE part of the General Election, but Europe has nothing to do with county elections :L

That's a fair point I suppose :P

[-:Undertaker:-]

Does seem odd voting UKIP now, when I doubt a single one of the people who did (ok, except Dan!) could tell me their policies on transport and education etc (ie. what these elections are about).

It's pretty widely known that UKIP support grammar school education and oppose the HS2 line.

HS2 actually featured heavily in the local campaigning leaflets, as did the opposition to wind farms.


..but Europe has nothing to do with county elections

The controversy over weekly bin collections being scrapped is a direct consquence of EU legislation as are wind turbines.

HS2 also has indirect links with EU policy although not like the other two issues which are direct consquences.

[GommeInc]

To be fair, in my area there was very little literature based on what any of the parties would do for Essex - but that pretty much sums up Essex. Cannot be bothered to do anything :P

[AgnesIO]

It's pretty widely known that UKIP support grammar school education and oppose the HS2 line.

HS2 actually featured heavily in the local campaigning leaflets, as did the opposition to wind farms.



The controversy over weekly bin collections being scrapped is a direct consquence of EU legislation as are wind turbines.

HS2 also has indirect links with EU policy although not like the other two issues which are direct consquences.

I don't understand why the leaflet through my door referred to wanting to leave Europe - as shown in previous threads, voters don't care about Europe, but the actual point I am making is that they should be talking about local issues in a pamphlet.

And also, I would put money on the fact that every person I know who voted UKIP would have no idea about what they stand for.

In fairness, the UKIP tedious is far less tedious than the Labour and Conservative ones that spend 400 words badmouthing the other!

[GommeInc]

I don't understand why the leaflet through my door referred to wanting to leave Europe - as shown in previous threads, voters don't care about Europe, but the actual point I am making is that they should be talking about local issues in a pamphlet.
European issues leak into local politics in the same way the Law of England and Wales sneaks into local areas.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I don't understand why the leaflet through my door referred to wanting to leave Europe - as shown in previous threads, voters don't care about Europe, but the actual point I am making is that they should be talking about local issues in a pamphlet.

And also, I would put money on the fact that every person I know who voted UKIP would have no idea about what they stand for.

In fairness, the UKIP tedious is far less tedious than the Labour and Conservative ones that spend 400 words badmouthing the other!

I myself and I think Farage very much does too, see UKIP as a vechicle for keeping the issue on the agenda aswell - much like the way Ron Paul in the states constantly talks about the monetary system and Federal Reserve; to 'wake people up' so to speak. They're not the most exciting issues to talk about, and so it falls to people to keep them in the public sphere in any way possible - UKIP have done a pretty good job at it as has Ron Paul.. take myself for example, had it not been for him I wouldn't have any knowledge or interest of the monetary system.

But i'd partly agree on some of the leaflets I see produced, I could do a much better job at one than some of the ones i've seen.

[Kardan]

Just a quick question, if UKIP won the general election and held a referendum on Europe and we decided to stay in the EU, what is UKIP's main policy then? (I'm assuming they would hold a referendum - are they allowed to.leave the EU without one?)

[Chippiewill]

UKIP would take the general election as to be the referendum I imagine.

[BlooBanana]

(Maybe a little bit personal but..) I'm from South Shields and the place has always been a labour town, for obvious reasons. I drove home from uni to see my parents and vote myself. The street was plagued with UKIP reps, most of which were youths who didn't move out of my cars way until they gave me a leaflet :/. There was quite a few banners and posts outside people's doors advertising the fact that they were voting UKIP, I was so shocked to say the least. I was just talking to someone saying they don't stand a chance because of how popular labour are there. Maybe it's because David stepped down and Emma, who no-one has ever heard of until everyone got flooded by leaflets, took over. Although she seems lovely, she stopped and asked me a few questions in town last saturday, but I can't help but think she's another person filling me with empty promises and maybe I should of voted UKIP as fresh starts are sometimes a good thing? I personally can't wait to the election next year, get that prissy boy demoted of his title :P.

[Ardemax]

Just a quick question, if UKIP won the general election and held a referendum on Europe and we decided to stay in the EU, what is UKIP's main policy then? (I'm assuming they would hold a referendum - are they allowed to.leave the EU without one?)

Couldn't they just scrap the law that binds us to political union with Europe?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Just a quick question, if UKIP won the general election and held a referendum on Europe and we decided to stay in the EU, what is UKIP's main policy then? (I'm assuming they would hold a referendum - are they allowed to.leave the EU without one?)

Assuming they have a referendum and say it did fail - then something like that would bring down the Government. In much a similar way that had Labour lost the House of Commons vote on the Iraq War, the government would have collapsed.

Of course if UKIP were in government and did hold a referendum, the chances of the referendum failing would be much reduced - their victory would have utterly shattered the pro-EU forces, and i'd assume the government would stop the European Commission pouring millions into the campaign as they did in Ireland with the Lisbon Treaty (both times).

The referendum we had in the 1970s for example was a complete set up, the government said in the pamphlets it delievered to each and every household that it wasn't about political union and wouldn't involve any loss of sovereignty - it was merely a common market. A total lie of course, as Edward Heath admitted years later.


Peter Sissons: The single currency, a United States of Europe, was all that in your mind when you took Britain in?

Edward Heath: Of course, yes.

This (http://ukip.org/media/pdf/ReferendumStichUp.pdf) appears to be (havent read it all yet) a good brief outline with info on the 1970s referendum if anyone is interested. :P It shows how the government published information for public consumption that totally contradicted its own briefings on the implications of membership.

I expect the same will happen again. Luckily though, the pro-independence side is more organised this time.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Couldn't they just scrap the law that binds us to political union with Europe?

For the process to be legal and go smoothly, you have to activate Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. Make no mistake about it, the process of leaving will be very complex and will take a number of years given the scale of how many powers have been transferred to Brussels.

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html